Hello and welcome
to "Road to Romance"
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I'm your host Dr. John Jacob
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Today we have with us
Bianca, Sean and Miles, welcome!
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Hi! Hello!
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So today, I
thought we could talk
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a little bit about pathology.
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I know you probably don't know
what that field is all about.
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I don't think it's something
that people think about
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when they're about to date.
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You don't go off thinking,
"Well, you know, let me
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find out if this young lady has
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good mental
health, nobody does that.
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Right, unless they
are a relationship coach.
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Well, there you
go... unless you are a
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relationship with
a coach or therapist.
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If you're a therapist,
you'd probably think about that.
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But, pathology is
really about mental health,
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and sometimes we're concerned
about people's physical health.
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I know we're concerned
about their spiritual health,
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but very often, we're not
at all concerned about their
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mental health - it's not
something that we think about...
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mostly, I think because
we believe that it is rare.
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The likelihood that we run
into someone that has a serious
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mental health problem that
will affect our relationship
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and perhaps our
marriage and our lives...
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we think it's
remote, it's not likely.
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So nobody thinks
about it and most times
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nobody wants to think about it.
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But, I have come to realize
that it's causing a lot of
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problems in and
out of the church.
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So, how common is it?
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Well it's about,
I would say, 1 in 4.
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So if you combine mental health
problems with medical problems,
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that are serious
enough to affect the marriage
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or a
relationship, it's about 1 in 4.
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So that means if you
went to a function and you
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sat there and you
counted 4 people away from you,
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chances are that one of
them would have a problem that
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would, you know,
bother you if you go into a
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relationship
with that individual.
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So what I thought we could
do today is just take a look
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at some of the signs
that you might not have
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thought about before and
I want to do this because
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as I talk to
people across the country,
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I'm always asked, "How
is it that I missed this,
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how is it that I didn't know
that my wife had this problem,
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how is it that
I didn't know that
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my husband had this problem?"
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And while they're
saying this to me,
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then the light bulb
goes off and they think,
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"Oh my gosh, I did see this,
I just didn't know what it was,"
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and so I think 9 times
out of 10, we see some signs
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of a problem, but
because we're not trained,
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we don't think that this
is something that's going to
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affect us, right?
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So let's take a look...
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So 1 in 4, as I said,
have mental health issues
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or medical issues
that act as spoilers.
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And I refer to
them as "spoilers"
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because we have a
theory, XY Theory,
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and remember we're
predicting that if you know your
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personality, and you
know the personality of
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the person that
you're interested in,
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you can make that
relationship work. Right
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But mental health issues
and problems act as spoilers.
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Throw a wrench in.
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They throw a wrench, right!
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They throw a wrench
right in there and prevent you
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from being able to
actually predict how your
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relationship will
turn out, the outcome.
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So the fact that there is a lack
of predictability could be a
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spoiler in itself like,
"I can't read this person."
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Yeah, it is, there's some
research out there that says
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that "if you know what
to expect from your partner,
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inside of the
marriage, you could reduce
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the likelihood that you
would end in a divorce by 90%."
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You could trust the person.
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Yeah, you know what to expect,
everything is about expectation.
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So it's expectations that
are not met in the marriage
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that usually cause problems.
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So it's like - you
deciding to marry...
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Let's say you fell in
love with a blind man...
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You know he's
blind. You know he's blind.
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You're not going to be able
to tell anyone inside of the
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marriage that I just
can't believe that my husband
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is blind.
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Well, no - you knew he was
blind and you would have made
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preparations in
your mind psychologically
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for the fact that he's
blind and you would have
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accepted it or you wouldn't
have gone forward. Right
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Well, it's the same thing
for all of these issues...
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if you know ahead of
time, it helps you a little bit.
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Now with mental health
issues, most people don't know
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enough and aren't qualified,
frankly, to deal with it
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because it's pretty
difficult and there's a lot of
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unpredictability -
sometimes it gets worse,
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sometimes it doesn't,
sometimes it goes away,
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sometimes medication
helps and sometimes medication
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doesn't help at all.
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So that unpredictability
really throws a wrench
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in a lot of marriages, okay?
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So let's look at
some of the soft signs.
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"Atypicality" - That's the
first one, I put that first
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because I like
that one the best.
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If you don't know
anything about science,
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that is the one sign that
I wish you would remember.
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"Atypicality" means
exactly what it sounds like...
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something that's not typical.
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So if you've ever been dating
someone and you're noticing
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some things and you cannot
really put your finger on it.
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You just know that
something isn't right, you know?
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You go to the lady's
home... this is a true story,
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I heard of a young man
that went to a lady's home,
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and when he got
there, in her apartment,
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he found that she had
absolutely no furniture. What?
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Had she just moved there or...
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No, she had been
living there for 2 years.
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No furniture. Wow!
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And he thought,
"This is really weird,"
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and he asked the question,
"Did you just move in?"
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She said, "No, I've
been living here for 2 years,
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I have a bed - that's all
I need, I have nothing else."
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So he said, "Okay, well
maybe some people, you know,
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"minimal,"
minimalist, "I let this slide."
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And then he said, "Oh, can
I have something to drink?"
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And she said, "Help yourself,"
and then he got to her
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refrigerator and
there was nothing in it.
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Okay... There was nothing in it.
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That's taking it
a little too far.
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Is this a soft
sign of a big problem?
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You understand what I'm saying?
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Could that be a deal breaker,
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I mean if everything else...
Oh Miles... yes of course!
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I mean, okay let's just say...
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Let's just say that situation
happened and, you know,
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no furniture, nothing to
drink in the refrigerator,
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but everything
else seems to be okay...
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Like what else? Laughter
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I mean, it wasn't just not juice
in the refrigerator. What else?
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There was nothing in there,
like the woman doesn't eat.
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indistinct chatter,
married problem at this point.
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But if you do it,
Miles, and you're an X,
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you know why you're
asking this question, I think?
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I think you're
asking this question because
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Xs are so
adaptable. Yeah, me too.
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But, you know, okay so
you don't have any furniture,
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"That's okay, we
could sit in on the floor,
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you know, it's okay."
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"You don't have
anything in your refrigerator?
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"Well I wasn't
thirsty anyway." Yeah, nah.
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No, if you see this,
remember this is about
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signs of something else.
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The problem really
isn't the lack of furniture
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or the lack of anything
at all in the refrigerator,
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not even a bottle of water,
right? That's not the problem.
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The problem is -
What does this mean?
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What is this
person's mental state
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if this is how they're living?
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And that's what you
need to ask yourself,
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so that is what they would
call "an atypical situation."
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Just something is
odd, something isn't right.
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I think sometimes when like
a situation like that happens
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I don't tend to like,
really question it too much
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or like go too deep
into it and I guess I should.
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You should. I guess so.
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You should. You
should think more about...
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And I'm like, "Oh,
okay that's different,
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and we just move on,
but I'm not really searching
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or even thinking
about searching for what the
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root cause of that
situation is. Right
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And again, you don't
have to be a psychotherapist,
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you don't have to be a
psychiatrist and I don't
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want you guys to pretend to be.
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I'm not asking you all to go
out and diagnose anyone at all.
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She could be paranoid. Yeah!
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You know, you don't even have
to engage in a conversation.
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You don't have to say, "Can
you talk to my therapist friend,
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can you meet my psychologist?"
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You don't have
to say any of that.
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All you have to say is, "Well
thank you for having me over,
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and I think I'll be
going now. Okay. You know?
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And that's it because
you felt that something
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was strange,
something was odd here,
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and you're trying to protect
yourself especially as an X.
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Y- types - not much of a problem
here, they would walk in there
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and just walk
right out. Laughter
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Not even goodbye, not
even "See ya," just bam.
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There goes the door, back
in the car and they're gone.
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They're just, you
know, very, very much
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more
self-protective that way. Okay
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All right? So the next one
is "extreme neediness." Hmmm
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Now X-types tend to
come across as needy,
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and I have to say to
you that it doesn't mean
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that you're really needy.
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It just means that you have
needs - there's a difference.
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You have needs for attention
or affection or communication,
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but it's when that need
becomes kind of obsessive,
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when you're
getting all explosive
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about it... you know
what I'm saying? Yeah
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When you're getting
aggressive about that need...
00:09:07.84\00:09:11.08
that anyone dating
you has to wonder...
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"What's up with that
dude," you know, "What's wrong?"
00:09:13.82\00:09:17.85
So what do you say when
you see, I mean, sorry...
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what do you say when
you see something like that?
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Okay, not too
much. Not too much.
00:09:22.39\00:09:25.39
Now we're talking
about signs that you will see
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early in the dating
process so this is not...
00:09:27.53\00:09:30.17
You guys have to remove your
minds from thinking that this
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is deep in the
relationship. Um hm
00:09:32.37\00:09:34.60
There are viewers that
are listening right now that
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might find themselves already
in this and then they would
00:09:37.11\00:09:39.74
want to go to that
individual and say,
00:09:39.77\00:09:42.44
"Hey, is something
wrong, is there anything I
00:09:42.48\00:09:44.35
can do to help," and
you try to be helpful.
00:09:44.38\00:09:46.35
I'm not saying that you run
away especially if you are in
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the relationship already.
00:09:48.45\00:09:49.88
But this is for you
guys, you guys are all single,
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and you're looking for signs
so that you don't even go there.
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It's much easier to stay
out of something than to try and
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dig your way out
after you've gotten in. Wow
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Preventive care
here. Preventive, right?
00:10:00.60\00:10:02.56
Preventive care.
00:10:02.60\00:10:03.93
So extreme neediness and a
lot of this is gut feeling.
00:10:03.97\00:10:06.47
If in your gut, you feel
that this person is absolutely
00:10:06.50\00:10:09.44
terribly needy - you
know what I'm saying?
00:10:09.47\00:10:11.04
They've got to hear my voice,
you know, once every hour,
00:10:11.07\00:10:15.08
you know, so they're calling
me on my job and I told you
00:10:15.11\00:10:19.25
that I can't answer
the phone on the job,
00:10:19.28\00:10:21.18
but you have to hear my
voice every hour, you know...
00:10:21.22\00:10:24.95
you have to make that
determination yourself.
00:10:24.99\00:10:26.92
"Is this normal, or is this a
little too much neediness here.
00:10:26.96\00:10:30.79
Is that like an
emotional dependency?
00:10:30.93\00:10:33.53
Well, I don't
want to label it. Okay
00:10:33.56\00:10:35.46
I don't want to label and I
don't want you guys to label it
00:10:35.50\00:10:37.73
either, I just want you
to recognize when something
00:10:37.77\00:10:40.57
seems outside of the norm. Okay
00:10:40.60\00:10:42.60
And then your
determination is this...
00:10:42.64\00:10:45.57
Am I going to continue or
am I going to run away? Okay
00:10:45.61\00:10:50.98
So not diagnosis...
Am I going to go down
00:10:51.01\00:10:54.12
this road with this
young lady or young man,
00:10:54.15\00:10:56.72
or am I going to backtrack and
save myself some problems. Okay
00:10:56.75\00:11:01.89
Okay - the next one,
"controlling behavior."
00:11:01.92\00:11:07.53
There are some people out there
that are extreme controllers,
00:11:07.56\00:11:11.43
and those people - you
would know it right away.
00:11:11.47\00:11:14.60
It's self-explanatory. Yeah
00:11:14.64\00:11:16.57
Their way or the highway Okay?
00:11:16.60\00:11:18.11
And then "aggressiveness."
00:11:18.14\00:11:20.64
Now if somebody is horribly
aggressive to you or with you
00:11:20.68\00:11:24.25
when you aren't even in
a relationship with them,
00:11:24.28\00:11:26.61
just imagine what's
it's going to be like deep
00:11:26.65\00:11:29.45
into the relationship or
on the other side in marriage.
00:11:29.48\00:11:32.99
Aggressiveness. Hmmm
00:11:33.02\00:11:35.02
"Rigidity," extreme rigidity
like no flexibility at all.
00:11:35.06\00:11:38.99
Again, it's always their
way or the highway, always!
00:11:39.03\00:11:43.16
It's not on there, but
people who are always right,
00:11:43.20\00:11:46.33
everything they say is right.
00:11:46.37\00:11:48.27
You know, those also
fall in that rigid category,
00:11:48.30\00:11:52.11
so you need to be
careful with that too.
00:11:52.14\00:11:53.94
"Extreme sadness," and I
have it as extreme sadness
00:11:53.98\00:11:56.75
instead of depression because
I don't think that you guys
00:11:56.78\00:11:59.08
are qualified to
diagnose depression.
00:11:59.11\00:12:01.52
But, anybody could see someone
who is always sad, very sad.
00:12:01.55\00:12:06.09
You can detect that,
you could see that. Right
00:12:06.12\00:12:09.42
Crying
incessantly, crying nonstop.
00:12:09.46\00:12:11.49
I mean, if you want
to help, you could ask,
00:12:11.53\00:12:12.99
"Is there
anything I can do to help?"
00:12:13.03\00:12:15.30
But it doesn't mean that
the way you help that individual
00:12:15.33\00:12:17.40
is by jumping into a
relationship with them
00:12:17.43\00:12:19.23
when they
probably need some kind of
00:12:19.27\00:12:21.17
psychological help. Right? Um hm
00:12:21.20\00:12:24.24
Okay, again if you're
already in the situation,
00:12:24.27\00:12:26.34
you will handle this
differently, but that's not
00:12:26.37\00:12:27.94
what we're
talking about right now.
00:12:27.98\00:12:29.64
"Excessive emotions,"
emotions all over the place,
00:12:29.68\00:12:33.42
extremely - like a
pendulum; very, very, very happy
00:12:33.45\00:12:36.38
for one period and
then extremely sad the next,
00:12:36.42\00:12:39.52
just like mood swings, right?
00:12:39.55\00:12:41.76
You want to watch out for that.
00:12:41.79\00:12:43.69
"Impulsivity," well you know,
we have a lot of people with
00:12:43.73\00:12:48.23
ADD and ADHD and so
there's a lot of impulsivity
00:12:48.26\00:12:52.07
out there, but I'm talking
about extreme impulsivity
00:12:52.10\00:12:54.30
where you guys sat down and you
00:12:54.34\00:12:56.24
talked about
not doing something.
00:12:56.27\00:12:58.27
Or you guys, maybe,
you know, "Hey I want to go
00:12:58.31\00:13:01.81
to this concert or
whatever, let's save for it,"
00:13:01.84\00:13:04.65
and he just impulsively went
right off and spent the money
00:13:04.68\00:13:09.45
the next morning on
a video game... What?
00:13:09.48\00:13:11.65
And then you say,
"Okay, I thought we had planned
00:13:11.69\00:13:14.26
to do this or that," and
he cannot explain it because
00:13:14.29\00:13:16.69
no impulse control. Okay
00:13:16.73\00:13:19.56
That's a problem!
00:13:19.59\00:13:21.30
"Explosiveness,"
we talked about that.
00:13:21.33\00:13:23.90
Some people
explode to the point where
00:13:23.93\00:13:27.04
when you're with
them, you feel like you're
00:13:27.07\00:13:28.64
walking on eggshells. Right
00:13:28.67\00:13:30.61
I don't know if
you've ever experienced that.
00:13:30.64\00:13:32.07
They're so
sensitive that you feel like,
00:13:32.11\00:13:34.84
"I'd better be very,
very careful, careful about
00:13:34.88\00:13:37.38
what I say,
careful about what I do...
00:13:37.41\00:13:38.91
You know, just
careful about what I think."
00:13:38.95\00:13:41.32
You know, unless
they could read my mind.
00:13:41.35\00:13:43.85
Okay, you don't want to
start that relationship because
00:13:43.89\00:13:46.82
that does not get better. Right
00:13:46.86\00:13:49.12
Okay, "withdrawn," some
people are just very withdrawn.
00:13:49.16\00:13:52.79
You can't get them
to talk about anything.
00:13:52.83\00:13:54.36
You can't get them to
come out of their shell,
00:13:54.40\00:13:56.06
and you are there fighting,
trying to pull them out...
00:13:56.10\00:13:58.53
mostly trying to be
helpful, but do you want
00:13:58.57\00:14:01.84
to be in a relationship
with someone like that?
00:14:01.87\00:14:04.01
That you meet and
they're always withdrawn.
00:14:04.04\00:14:06.14
Every time you go out on a date,
they've completely withdrawn.
00:14:06.17\00:14:08.51
Seems like you're working
overtime and then after a while,
00:14:08.54\00:14:10.45
it's like okay, "You
know what, I'm really trying
00:14:10.48\00:14:12.31
with the situation
and it's not working,"
00:14:12.35\00:14:15.02
so you tend to
check out. Exactly!
00:14:15.05\00:14:17.72
So how is that different than,
say for an extremely low Y.
00:14:17.75\00:14:21.76
Like reserved, is there a
difference between withdrawn
00:14:21.79\00:14:24.73
and being reserved?
00:14:24.76\00:14:26.09
Yeah, an extremely
low Y, they'll talk.
00:14:26.13\00:14:28.30
I mean, remember Ys will always
talk about self-interests.
00:14:28.33\00:14:30.70
That are the
things that they like.
00:14:31.37\00:14:32.70
Things that they like,
so you'll try to find out
00:14:32.73\00:14:34.50
what the person
likes. Like turtles...
00:14:34.54\00:14:35.87
(indistinct chatter),
like. Yeah, like, okay here,
00:14:35.90\00:14:37.24
exactly, there you go.
00:14:37.27\00:14:38.61
You like turtles
here, right? Yeah
00:14:38.64\00:14:40.61
But if you're with someone
and there's nothing they like
00:14:40.64\00:14:43.04
at all, there's nothing you
could get them to talk about.
00:14:43.08\00:14:45.58
In fact, you can't get them
to talk at all about anything,
00:14:45.61\00:14:48.08
they don't even want to go out,
00:14:48.12\00:14:49.85
withdrawn, then
that's a problem.
00:14:49.88\00:14:51.62
Then why are you trying?
00:14:51.65\00:14:52.99
"Illogical thinking" - there
are some people that - logic...
00:14:53.02\00:14:57.06
you're talking to them and
you explain to them things,
00:14:57.09\00:14:59.56
and it's like... "whoa," this
logic isn't matching at all,
00:14:59.59\00:15:04.57
you're not understanding
what I'm saying and it's not
00:15:04.60\00:15:06.50
complicated, but there's no
logic to what they're saying,
00:15:06.53\00:15:10.27
especially when you have
interactions or even if you
00:15:10.31\00:15:13.27
have a little argument and
there's no logic whatsoever...
00:15:13.31\00:15:15.51
It doesn't really get
much better beyond that,
00:15:15.54\00:15:18.75
and we touched on this
already, this is a big one...
00:15:18.78\00:15:21.42
"Oversensitivity," you
don't want to be with someone
00:15:21.45\00:15:23.52
with whom you
cannot see anything,
00:15:23.55\00:15:25.82
you're not feeling
free to be yourself. Right
00:15:25.85\00:15:28.79
And the most important thing is,
00:15:28.82\00:15:30.16
#1- You must be
able to be yourself.
00:15:31.03\00:15:33.33
#2- You always
check to see how that
00:15:33.40\00:15:35.66
person leaves you feeling,
00:15:35.70\00:15:37.17
how does that
person make you feel,
00:15:37.20\00:15:38.93
that's the biggest marker. Okay.
00:15:38.97\00:15:41.14
Okay? Now that's a whole
lot to throw at you guys,
00:15:41.17\00:15:43.41
so I'm not going to
give you all anymore,
00:15:43.44\00:15:45.84
I'm just going to let
you have that marinade,
00:15:45.87\00:15:48.81
and I want to thank
you guys for being here and
00:15:48.84\00:15:52.91
I'll talk to you next time.
00:15:52.95\00:15:54.32
Thank you for the
information. Thank you.
00:15:54.35\00:15:57.32
Hello and welcome
back to "Road to Romance"
00:16:02.42\00:16:05.49
We have with us again,
Vania and Jeremiah - welcome!
00:16:05.53\00:16:09.40
Happy to be back. Thank you.
00:16:09.43\00:16:11.27
So I thought today we
could talk about "pathology."
00:16:11.30\00:16:14.67
We talked about personality
and now we would like to talk
00:16:14.70\00:16:19.24
a little bit
about mental illness.
00:16:19.27\00:16:21.88
It affects about 1
in 4 married couples,
00:16:21.91\00:16:25.75
so that's pretty
prevalent, you know - 25%? Right
00:16:25.78\00:16:31.02
So, do you know anything about
00:16:31.05\00:16:34.59
this topic? Well
let me ask Jeremiah.
00:16:34.62\00:16:37.89
Jeremiah, you are a marriage
and family therapist. Correct.
00:16:37.93\00:16:41.56
Well I mean the statistics
are accurate, 1 out of 4
00:16:41.60\00:16:44.87
Americans suffer
from mental illness,
00:16:44.90\00:16:47.30
so it's very
pervasive in our society.
00:16:47.34\00:16:49.94
So if you then add a
relationship on top of that,
00:16:49.97\00:16:53.27
people are coming in and
not realizing that this person
00:16:53.31\00:16:56.18
may have this mental
illness that they're battling,
00:16:56.21\00:16:58.65
and so that would
affect a lot of other areas
00:16:58.68\00:17:01.18
on communication and so on.
00:17:01.22\00:17:03.02
So if couples aren't
aware of that, then it creates
00:17:03.05\00:17:05.99
a lot of problems
in a relationship.
00:17:06.02\00:17:07.62
Right, it kind of adds another
layer of difficulty. Exactly!
00:17:07.66\00:17:12.03
So, you know, sadly mental
illness as you guys would know,
00:17:12.49\00:17:18.93
goes undiagnosed, a
lot undiscovered a lot,
00:17:18.97\00:17:23.47
and the way it looks in a
marriage is very different
00:17:23.51\00:17:27.74
from how you would
read in a diagnostic manual.
00:17:27.78\00:17:30.95
So a couple
that's dealing with this,
00:17:30.98\00:17:33.18
they may have horrible
fights explosive fights,
00:17:33.21\00:17:37.12
sometimes physical altercations
and all of this is because
00:17:37.15\00:17:41.36
one or both of them might be
suffering from mental illness.
00:17:41.39\00:17:46.49
And it's not
just mental illness,
00:17:46.53\00:17:47.86
it could be something medical.
00:17:47.90\00:17:49.23
It could be drug-related
and it could be alcohol abuse,
00:17:49.26\00:17:51.57
but any of those
things could really add to the
00:17:51.60\00:17:54.34
difficulty of a
couple making it, right?
00:17:54.37\00:17:57.54
So let's take an example...
00:17:57.57\00:17:59.17
If you had a wife that
had manic depressive illness,
00:17:59.21\00:18:03.04
for instance, she can be up
all night cleaning the house,
00:18:03.08\00:18:07.18
spic and span.
00:18:07.22\00:18:08.88
You get up in the morning
and the house is spotless! Right
00:18:08.92\00:18:11.59
Now it's time to
take the kids to school,
00:18:11.62\00:18:14.39
but she is flat in
bed, unable to move
00:18:14.42\00:18:18.19
because now she is in
her depressive phase. Right
00:18:18.23\00:18:21.10
The husband who
has to deal with that
00:18:21.56\00:18:23.43
would be clueless, he
has no idea what's wrong,
00:18:23.47\00:18:26.00
and if he doesn't know
about manic depressive illness,
00:18:26.03\00:18:29.14
or that his wife, you
know, has this problem,
00:18:29.17\00:18:31.44
he could think all
kinds of wrong things like
00:18:31.47\00:18:34.74
"I think she's lazy, I
don't know what she was up doing
00:18:34.78\00:18:37.78
last night - maybe she
was on the internet, you know,
00:18:37.81\00:18:40.75
playing around with her
friends, sending messages,
00:18:40.78\00:18:43.12
and now that it's time for
her to be a mom and be a wife,
00:18:43.15\00:18:45.99
she is useless and then
his anger and resentment
00:18:46.02\00:18:50.23
builds because he has no
idea what is going on. Right
00:18:50.26\00:18:54.13
Remember this - we're talking
about "undiagnosed" mainly.
00:18:54.16\00:18:57.40
Even when it is diagnosed,
it's difficult. Exactly. Right?
00:18:57.43\00:19:01.24
So I wanted to read a few ways
in which illness of this nature
00:19:01.27\00:19:08.41
affects a relationship. Okay
00:19:08.44\00:19:11.05
Most of the time, one
person will feel that the person
00:19:11.08\00:19:13.85
that they love is no
longer there and this especially
00:19:13.88\00:19:17.12
happens when you get
the diagnosis after the fact
00:19:17.15\00:19:20.76
you're already married,
you're into the marriage
00:19:20.79\00:19:22.42
a few years and you
know something is wrong,
00:19:22.46\00:19:24.89
but you're not sure and
then you manage or you succeed
00:19:24.93\00:19:27.93
in getting your partner
to get some help. Exactly
00:19:27.96\00:19:30.37
And then he or she finds out
that they have a major illness.
00:19:30.40\00:19:34.77
Now you grieve
just like people grieve
00:19:34.80\00:19:36.97
for anything else
because it's a loss.
00:19:37.01\00:19:39.11
It's a loss of a
partner that was whole. Right
00:19:39.17\00:19:42.71
And now you're thinking...
"Is she ever going to come back,
00:19:42.74\00:19:46.25
are things going to be
the way they were before,
00:19:46.28\00:19:48.45
what are our next steps?"
00:19:48.48\00:19:50.05
So was the partner whole
or they just think that the
00:19:51.59\00:19:55.72
he or she was whole?
00:19:55.76\00:19:58.09
Yes, that's a good question.
00:19:58.13\00:19:59.63
So the partner may not
have been whole, but guess what?
00:19:59.66\00:20:01.73
You're laughing Jeremiah,
tell me what you think.
00:20:01.76\00:20:04.37
No, because I agree.
00:20:04.40\00:20:06.10
We may have gotten into that
situation thinking the person
00:20:06.13\00:20:08.64
was one way, but I was
just then presenting something
00:20:08.67\00:20:11.77
to us - that wasn't
a fact. Yeah, exactly.
00:20:11.81\00:20:14.08
And, you know, it
works like this...
00:20:14.11\00:20:15.88
Somebody had had cancer,
could have been suffering
00:20:15.91\00:20:19.48
for years, as-a-matter-of fact,
00:20:19.51\00:20:22.72
if I could
self-disclose a little...
00:20:22.75\00:20:25.25
This was my dad's situation.
00:20:25.29\00:20:26.69
He knew that
something was wrong for years,
00:20:26.72\00:20:29.49
and it wasn't until
he got his diagnosis,
00:20:29.52\00:20:32.23
and then shared his diagnosis
with me that I began to grieve,
00:20:32.26\00:20:35.93
I mean - really grieve.
00:20:35.96\00:20:37.40
So knowing that something
is wrong and then finding out
00:20:37.43\00:20:41.70
definitely - this
is exactly what it is,
00:20:41.74\00:20:44.04
they are like
night and day sometimes.
00:20:44.07\00:20:46.78
So when that happens,
the person who is "well,"
00:20:46.81\00:20:51.58
and I put that in quotes
because we all have something
00:20:51.61\00:20:53.92
that we're dealing with,
but the person who is not
00:20:53.95\00:20:56.22
mentally ill - then has to
think about, "Okay now I have a
00:20:56.25\00:20:59.72
diagnosis, I know
what the problem is,
00:20:59.75\00:21:01.59
what am I going to do about it."
00:21:01.62\00:21:03.19
And if there are
children involved,
00:21:03.22\00:21:05.39
it could get even deeper in
terms of things that you have
00:21:05.43\00:21:08.50
to consider if it's something
that has a high heritability
00:21:08.53\00:21:11.73
rate meaning that the children
can inherit it genetically...
00:21:11.77\00:21:15.54
Now you're worrying, "Okay,
if my wife has schizophrenia,
00:21:15.57\00:21:18.01
I have three girls - how
many of them are going to be
00:21:18.04\00:21:20.84
struck with this." Exactly
00:21:20.88\00:21:22.58
So it's a really
tenuous, difficult situation.
00:21:22.61\00:21:25.95
You also know that you are
going to become the caregiver
00:21:25.98\00:21:29.65
for everyone... for
the partner, for the kids.
00:21:29.68\00:21:33.42
You are the
primary care caregiver
00:21:33.46\00:21:35.09
because the other person is ill.
00:21:35.12\00:21:36.66
Oh, it's true, so that
like increased responsibility
00:21:36.69\00:21:38.86
right there and which
could obviously raise someone's
00:21:38.89\00:21:40.90
stress level as
well. Right, exactly.
00:21:40.93\00:21:43.70
And then you
feel some loneliness
00:21:43.73\00:21:46.74
because you don't have
that bond - the bond is somewhat
00:21:46.77\00:21:50.54
severed, you know,
and I know that you're
00:21:50.57\00:21:53.71
probably thinking, "Well
the bond was probably not that
00:21:53.74\00:21:55.58
great to begin with if you
guys were arguing and fighting
00:21:55.61\00:22:00.28
and quarrelling, but again,
once that you find out that
00:22:00.32\00:22:02.75
there is a diagnosis,
it changes everything.
00:22:02.78\00:22:06.45
But do you think like once
you find out - that it provides
00:22:06.49\00:22:09.26
also more peace because at least
you know why it's happening.
00:22:09.29\00:22:11.43
Yes and no - I have to
say, "yes," because you always
00:22:12.29\00:22:20.40
have more peace when
you find out - definitively,
00:22:20.44\00:22:22.74
"Okay, this is
what I'm dealing with."
00:22:22.77\00:22:25.04
But then it depends
on what the illness is...
00:22:25.07\00:22:29.18
some things are more
treatable than others,
00:22:29.21\00:22:31.51
as you would know, Jeremiah.
00:22:31.55\00:22:33.68
Some things - medication would
take care of and enable you
00:22:33.72\00:22:37.55
to go about your day
almost as if nothing was wrong.
00:22:37.59\00:22:40.99
Other things - medication
doesn't work quite that well,
00:22:41.59\00:22:45.73
and you know that
you're dealing with this
00:22:45.76\00:22:47.60
for the rest of your lives
and then, in that instance,
00:22:47.63\00:22:50.53
knowing what it is - isn't going
to make you feel much better.
00:22:50.57\00:22:54.87
But at least he give
you like maybe support,
00:22:54.90\00:22:57.11
and you have a reason why
you can justify the support
00:22:57.14\00:23:00.91
of maybe family members
or if it's not diagnosed,
00:23:00.94\00:23:04.95
then it may come across
like an excuse or you're lazy
00:23:04.98\00:23:08.78
or something, right? Yeah
00:23:08.82\00:23:10.42
And this is one of the
reasons why we're discussing
00:23:10.45\00:23:13.59
this on this program...
for folks out there that,
00:23:13.62\00:23:16.93
you know, have this issue
going on and need to address it
00:23:16.96\00:23:22.43
for the sake of the marriage,
for the sake of the children
00:23:22.46\00:23:24.83
because everybody is suffering,
but there's no support
00:23:24.87\00:23:28.60
because there's no
acknowledgement. That's true.
00:23:28.64\00:23:30.87
So, you know,
gotta get to that point.
00:23:30.91\00:23:33.27
Now, as Jeremiah would
tell you, also there are several
00:23:33.31\00:23:36.85
diagnoses where part of
the description or one of the
00:23:37.35\00:23:44.15
traits
identifying marks is denial.
00:23:44.19\00:23:46.96
So if part of your diagnosis is
you are suffering from X, Y or Z
00:23:46.99\00:23:52.06
and part of this
is - you'll deny it,
00:23:52.09\00:23:54.23
you could see how
difficult that is.
00:23:54.26\00:23:56.93
You know, there are
several people that will never
00:23:56.97\00:23:58.30
go to a psychiatrist, will
never go to a psychotherapist
00:23:58.33\00:24:00.87
because they don't believe
that they have anything wrong,
00:24:00.90\00:24:04.64
and if you bring it up,
they will treat you like
00:24:04.67\00:24:06.98
you're the one that's suffering
from some kind of illness,
00:24:07.01\00:24:11.91
and, unfortunately, this
is part of the diagnosis.
00:24:11.95\00:24:14.78
In my particular case as
a solution focal therapist,
00:24:14.82\00:24:19.55
we call those type of
people "visitors." Right?
00:24:19.59\00:24:21.76
They are like the reluctant
people that come into therapy
00:24:21.79\00:24:24.66
because maybe they came
at the request of a partner
00:24:24.69\00:24:28.13
or loved one and
they're almost like
00:24:28.16\00:24:30.00
mandated to come to counseling,
00:24:30.03\00:24:31.67
so they just sit there
and they have the stance like,
00:24:31.70\00:24:33.90
"Okay Mr. Therapist,
now get me to open up."
00:24:33.94\00:24:37.87
And so you have to then
try to socialize and join them
00:24:37.91\00:24:40.71
in where they are to try to
get them to open up about it.
00:24:40.74\00:24:44.51
Yeah, kind of get to where
they are so that you could get
00:24:44.55\00:24:47.02
them to open up. Exactly
00:24:47.05\00:24:48.38
And I think maybe one thing
that is important to mention is
00:24:48.42\00:24:51.65
that you have to find a
therapist that clicks with you.
00:24:51.69\00:24:55.72
You know, not every
therapist clicks with anybody.
00:24:55.76\00:24:59.43
Not because you're a therapist
that means that you can
00:24:59.46\00:25:02.00
treat everybody... Right
especially now that we're
00:25:02.03\00:25:04.53
talking about personality
and it's important to see like
00:25:04.57\00:25:07.70
"Okay, what kind of therapist
would click with this person?"
00:25:07.74\00:25:12.77
Especially if the person
is in denial and if the person
00:25:12.81\00:25:15.88
decides to, you know,
try it out - then you want to
00:25:15.91\00:25:18.95
have someone who clicks
and the experience is at least
00:25:18.98\00:25:21.95
pleasant the first time. Right
00:25:21.98\00:25:23.32
And that is vital for
someone who has, you know,
00:25:23.35\00:25:26.35
dealing with
personality differences,
00:25:26.39\00:25:27.92
but absolutely
mandatory for someone who has
00:25:27.96\00:25:30.69
a personality
disorder because at that point,
00:25:30.73\00:25:33.40
you're right - you
may only have one shot,
00:25:33.43\00:25:36.30
one bite of the apple and
you want to make sure that
00:25:36.33\00:25:38.70
this clicks, so
that's a very good point.
00:25:38.73\00:25:41.54
So I wanted to bring
something up though...
00:25:41.57\00:25:43.51
In the church, we
have a very unique problem,
00:25:43.54\00:25:49.21
and the problem is that we have
a health-focus that is very,
00:25:49.24\00:25:55.32
very strong and we
should be proud of it, right?
00:25:55.35\00:25:57.49
Loma Linda is one
of the "blue zones,"
00:25:57.52\00:25:59.62
so be very proud of this.
00:25:59.65\00:26:01.32
But there is a focus, of course,
on vegetarianism which is
00:26:01.36\00:26:06.39
to our credit and
also on veganism...
00:26:06.43\00:26:09.73
So, my point is this...
00:26:09.76\00:26:12.17
There are people out
there who need medication to
00:26:12.20\00:26:16.84
deal with some very
severe types of disorders,
00:26:16.87\00:26:20.91
and are unwilling to
be treated because they
00:26:20.94\00:26:26.88
they have nothing to do
with traditional medication and
00:26:27.88\00:26:30.39
this is not every
vegan out there, obviously,
00:26:30.42\00:26:33.02
but I'm just saying there is
a handful of folks who will not
00:26:33.05\00:26:36.02
take any kind of
traditional type of medication.
00:26:36.06\00:26:39.23
I mean, this is not like they're
suffering from a terminal
00:26:39.26\00:26:41.33
illness - in their mind,
it's just a mental illness,
00:26:41.36\00:26:44.10
"I can probably
try some supplements or
00:26:44.13\00:26:46.74
whatever," what would you say
to someone like that, Jeremiah.
00:26:46.77\00:26:51.17
Well, I mean, this
is a very tricky one...
00:26:51.21\00:26:53.24
so if someone is reluctant
to seek treatment or take the
00:26:53.27\00:26:57.28
proper medication,
then that will only
00:26:57.31\00:27:00.15
make the situation that much
more aggravated because then
00:27:00.18\00:27:05.02
by them being reluctant
to seek the proper treatment,
00:27:05.05\00:27:09.82
it's just going to make the
situation at home with their
00:27:09.86\00:27:12.53
partner much more
intolerable and in some cases
00:27:12.56\00:27:16.50
it's insufferable to where, you
know, the chances for people to
00:27:16.53\00:27:19.80
not be together - it's
just going to be that much
00:27:19.83\00:27:22.10
more greater because, like you
mentioned, the divorce rate is
00:27:22.14\00:27:24.24
already high as it is, so
then you add the component
00:27:24.27\00:27:26.71
of someone who is not willing
to seek the proper treatment
00:27:26.74\00:27:30.05
or get the appropriate
medication, is just going to
00:27:30.08\00:27:32.85
make that
situation almost terminal,
00:27:32.88\00:27:35.35
if I can just say that. Right
00:27:35.38\00:27:37.95
It will make it very,
very, very difficult. Exactly
00:27:37.99\00:27:40.96
So I'd like to read one
Scripture to you here...
00:27:40.99\00:27:43.36
Ephesians 4:2 says, "Be
completely humble and gentle,
00:27:43.39\00:27:47.30
be patient bearing
with one another in love."
00:27:47.33\00:27:49.83
So the Bible encourages
us to bear with each other's
00:27:49.86\00:27:52.73
burdens and when we
make a marriage vow is for
00:27:52.77\00:27:55.80
better or for worse.
00:27:55.84\00:27:57.17
I'd like to thank you guys
for your contribution today,
00:27:57.21\00:27:59.17
and I'll see you next time.
00:27:59.21\00:28:00.54
Thank you. You're welcome.
00:28:00.58\00:28:02.38