Hello and welcome
to "Road to Romance"
00:00:24.89\00:00:27.32
I'm your host, Dr. John Jacob.
00:00:27.66\00:00:29.89
Jennifer, Kory, Kimberly,
welcome back! Thank you
00:00:29.92\00:00:33.40
Today we're going to
talk about "silent suffers."
00:00:33.43\00:00:36.13
It's a new concept,
but an old concept. Okay
00:00:36.16\00:00:40.04
So, I would like to start
with a personal story of my own
00:00:40.07\00:00:45.74
that would help you to
understand how I came about
00:00:45.77\00:00:48.18
discovering this
whole "XY Theory" thing.
00:00:48.21\00:00:50.58
I'd love to take all
of the credit for it,
00:00:50.61\00:00:54.38
but I can't - it
really has a lot to do with my
00:00:54.42\00:00:57.42
upbringing and my own parents,
let's take a look at the slides.
00:00:57.45\00:01:00.22
So I grew up in a Catholic home,
and, of course, we converted
00:01:00.26\00:01:06.26
to Adventism when
I was about 19-20.
00:01:06.29\00:01:09.26
Prior to that, my parents
had a very, very difficult
00:01:09.30\00:01:13.50
conflicted marriage.
00:01:13.54\00:01:15.30
So we got baptized and
we felt or we were told
00:01:15.34\00:01:19.77
that everything would be
okay now and the problems
00:01:19.81\00:01:23.45
that we had and the
problems that they had
00:01:23.48\00:01:24.85
would just disappear.
00:01:24.88\00:01:26.25
Well they did for a year
and then they came back with a
00:01:26.28\00:01:30.19
vengeance and my
parents started fighting again.
00:01:30.22\00:01:33.69
Well my parents
loved each other a lot,
00:01:33.72\00:01:36.89
and they also loved God a lot.
00:01:36.93\00:01:39.16
I went into the
ministry right away.
00:01:39.19\00:01:41.40
I did a degree in theology
and when I was done, it occurred
00:01:41.43\00:01:46.43
to me that my parents
were not getting any better,
00:01:46.50\00:01:48.67
things were getting worse.
00:01:48.70\00:01:50.27
So I concluded that
it wasn't spirituality.
00:01:50.31\00:01:53.78
My mom, I call her "the fastor."
00:01:53.81\00:01:56.01
She can fast for 3, 4, 5 days,
00:01:56.04\00:01:59.65
I've never seen
anything like it,
00:01:59.68\00:02:01.32
I could hardly make a good day,
00:02:01.35\00:02:03.12
but she can fast for as
long as she wants it seems.
00:02:03.15\00:02:05.92
So they really tried very
hard, on a spiritual level,
00:02:05.95\00:02:09.09
to fix things and things
just didn't get any better.
00:02:09.12\00:02:12.66
So I moved beyond theology and
started looking into psychology
00:02:12.69\00:02:16.53
because I'm looking for reasons
why is it that my parents
00:02:16.56\00:02:19.13
who love each other
and love God equally,
00:02:19.17\00:02:21.00
could not make this work.
00:02:21.04\00:02:23.61
By doing that, I stumbled on
this theory by observing them,
00:02:23.64\00:02:26.98
and seeing what
they were going through,
00:02:27.01\00:02:28.34
I stumbled on this theory.
00:02:28.38\00:02:29.71
More importantly,
however, they were moving up in
00:02:29.74\00:02:32.11
the church - my dad
had become first elder,
00:02:32.15\00:02:34.45
my mom had become
head superintendent,
00:02:34.48\00:02:36.55
and now, they had no
chance whatsoever of sharing
00:02:36.58\00:02:40.56
what they were going
through in their marriage
00:02:40.59\00:02:42.22
with anyone else in the church.
00:02:42.26\00:02:44.46
In fact, the young
people in the church,
00:02:44.49\00:02:46.59
whenever they were
getting ready to get married,
00:02:46.63\00:02:48.96
they would go up to
the rostrum and say,
00:02:49.00\00:02:51.03
"May God bless us to be as happy
as Brother and Sister Jacob."
00:02:51.07\00:02:54.80
My brother and I would
sit in our seats and squirm
00:02:54.84\00:02:57.64
because we knew the truth
and we knew that by the time
00:02:57.67\00:03:01.41
the service was over and we
got into the car to get home,
00:03:01.44\00:03:05.15
before we got home,
there would be an argument,
00:03:05.18\00:03:07.88
so we knew that
this was a facade,
00:03:07.92\00:03:10.85
but one that they had no choice.
00:03:10.89\00:03:12.59
They felt that
they had no choice
00:03:12.62\00:03:13.96
in dealing with
it any other way.
00:03:13.99\00:03:15.89
But I wondered, how many
other Seventh-day Adventist
00:03:15.92\00:03:19.33
couples are going through
the exact same thing - afraid
00:03:19.36\00:03:24.00
to say anything
to anyone for fear
00:03:24.03\00:03:27.04
that someone questions
their spirituality. Absolutely!
00:03:27.07\00:03:29.80
Or questions their integrity
or wonders if they have
00:03:29.84\00:03:33.11
someone on the outside or
any other foolish thing that has
00:03:33.14\00:03:35.64
nothing to do with the reality.
00:03:35.68\00:03:37.81
Now my father is
a very stubborn man,
00:03:37.85\00:03:39.48
so when I got into psychology
and I came up with this test,
00:03:39.51\00:03:42.25
the "XY Theory Test," I
said, "Dad, I've got it,
00:03:42.28\00:03:45.02
I've figured it out, I
know exactly what's wrong
00:03:45.05\00:03:47.29
with you and mom."
00:03:47.32\00:03:48.82
Years, I could not get this
man to budge, I mean come on,
00:03:48.86\00:03:52.03
we're from the
Caribbean, old school,
00:03:52.06\00:03:54.73
he's not even going to
the doctor when he's sick
00:03:54.76\00:03:56.56
let alone taking a test from
his little psychologist son...
00:03:56.60\00:03:59.07
so that wasn't happening at all.
00:03:59.10\00:04:00.44
And it wasn't until
he was on his dying bed
00:04:00.47\00:04:04.44
that I said, "Grant me one wish,
please just take this test,
00:04:04.47\00:04:09.81
I'm begging you,"
so he took the test.
00:04:09.84\00:04:12.25
At that time, the test
was scored from zero to 100,
00:04:12.28\00:04:15.28
and as you see there,
when he took the test,
00:04:15.32\00:04:18.02
his scores were in the vicinity
of 25 in both communication
00:04:18.05\00:04:22.16
and intimacy, a T1 was
15 and the other was 25.
00:04:22.19\00:04:25.89
He was an extremely low Y.
00:04:25.93\00:04:27.96
My mom, who tends to
be a little competitive,
00:04:28.00\00:04:31.73
then she wanted to take
her test and found out that
00:04:31.77\00:04:34.67
her scores were 95 out
of 100, extremely high X.
00:04:34.70\00:04:39.81
It was exactly what I thought.
00:04:39.84\00:04:41.48
They were complaining about a
lot of things that have nothing
00:04:41.51\00:04:44.31
to do with what they
were complaining about.
00:04:44.35\00:04:46.68
Her problem was - by
complaining, by engaging,
00:04:46.72\00:04:49.92
by confronting - like we
talked about with the conflict,
00:04:49.95\00:04:51.99
that was her opportunity
to get to hear his voice,
00:04:52.02\00:04:54.96
to get some kind of
interaction and she would take
00:04:54.99\00:04:57.06
negative
interaction over none at all.
00:04:57.09\00:05:00.30
But I went back to the hospital
and I told dad the results,
00:05:00.33\00:05:03.06
and with a tear
in his eye he said,
00:05:03.10\00:05:05.83
"So you're telling me that
this marriage and the failure
00:05:05.87\00:05:09.97
of the marriage didn't
have anything to do with me,
00:05:10.01\00:05:13.17
it wasn't my fault...
like I thought all these years,
00:05:13.21\00:05:15.58
for 51 years?"
00:05:15.61\00:05:18.08
I said, "No dad, it wasn't
you, it was just that you guys
00:05:18.11\00:05:22.65
were different, that was all."
00:05:22.68\00:05:25.25
And he died peacefully
and I was quite satisfied. Wow
00:05:25.29\00:05:30.96
This is the
genesis of XY Theory.
00:05:30.99\00:05:33.33
This is why I'm so
passionate about this.
00:05:33.36\00:05:35.13
This is why I feel that there
are millions of people out there
00:05:35.16\00:05:39.00
that are in the same
situation and some stay together
00:05:39.03\00:05:41.67
for other reasons...
sometimes it's the children;
00:05:41.70\00:05:44.01
sometimes it's
financial reasons,
00:05:44.04\00:05:46.31
and they should stay together,
but the point I try to make
00:05:46.34\00:05:48.84
with my parents is...
if they had known this
00:05:48.88\00:05:50.71
earlier, they could
have fixed the problem. Wow
00:05:50.75\00:05:54.65
Very, very simple little
tweak, as long as you know
00:05:54.68\00:05:57.49
what it is - my father had
no idea that my mother just
00:05:57.52\00:06:00.26
needed some casual conversation,
nothing deep, nothing deep,
00:06:00.29\00:06:03.79
just - "Hello, how are
you, how was your day?"
00:06:03.83\00:06:05.96
That was all - he
had no idea whatsoever.
00:06:05.99\00:06:10.07
So I wanted to ask you
guys, I know that you're in an
00:06:10.10\00:06:12.93
XY relationship - have you
had anything similar happen?
00:06:12.97\00:06:15.74
You know, I think what
you have just said is so
00:06:15.77\00:06:19.17
very significant
because from time to time,
00:06:19.21\00:06:21.71
I would get the calls
also with folks who were saying
00:06:21.74\00:06:24.78
"Listen, what should I
do, I'm in this relationship,
00:06:24.81\00:06:28.68
whether it's 30 years, 20
years, whatever and I can't
00:06:28.72\00:06:33.46
speak to anyone, I
don't know who to talk to,
00:06:33.49\00:06:36.19
I don't want people
to know my business,
00:06:36.22\00:06:38.69
I don't want to have this
conversation hearing about it
00:06:38.73\00:06:43.60
next week - you know, because
people are talking about it."
00:06:43.63\00:06:46.13
So the fear is very, very,
very real to a lot of people,
00:06:46.70\00:06:51.21
and so the question
is, as you mentioned,
00:06:51.24\00:06:54.01
"What do I do about
it?" because for most people
00:06:54.04\00:06:56.58
not only is it real,
but it's been going on
00:06:56.61\00:06:59.15
so long, it's like
people have gotten accustomed...
00:06:59.18\00:07:02.32
it's become a way
of life. Acceptable
00:07:02.35\00:07:05.25
You know, so it's like I
tell people, it's like a cancer
00:07:05.29\00:07:08.29
that's there and it's
getting worse and worse,
00:07:08.32\00:07:11.69
and you don't know
what to do about it.
00:07:11.73\00:07:14.06
And, of course, as we
know, family is at the core
00:07:14.10\00:07:17.07
of everything - all right,
and so this is where the enemy
00:07:17.10\00:07:20.74
is hitting - if he can get
our family so disconnected,
00:07:20.77\00:07:24.67
the church is made up
of families that he has us
00:07:24.71\00:07:27.58
exactly where he wants
us and so our objective
00:07:27.61\00:07:31.95
I would say, is to really reach
and help people to understand
00:07:31.98\00:07:36.42
and that's why I was so
thankful for having read
00:07:36.45\00:07:39.95
when someone gave me
the "XY Theory Book,"
00:07:39.99\00:07:42.82
reading about it
because when I first got it,
00:07:42.86\00:07:45.69
I said, "Oh
another self-help book,
00:07:45.73\00:07:47.96
I don't want to
read that," you know,
00:07:48.00\00:07:49.83
but then I thought the person
took the time to give it to me,
00:07:49.86\00:07:52.70
you know, why not read
it and really reading it
00:07:52.73\00:07:55.60
helped me to
understand personalities
00:07:55.64\00:07:58.57
because I've always been
interested for my own personal
00:07:58.61\00:08:01.24
reasons - why do people
do what they do? You know?
00:08:01.28\00:08:05.81
What's the reason behind it?
00:08:05.85\00:08:07.42
What's the rationale behind it?
00:08:07.45\00:08:08.98
And the book helped
me to understand that...
00:08:09.02\00:08:11.59
Why people do what they do
and the personality differences,
00:08:11.62\00:08:15.59
that it's not always -
"Well you know, that person
00:08:15.62\00:08:18.33
is just, you know,
really and truly repulsive,"
00:08:18.36\00:08:22.50
there's a reason and there's
a rationale and many times
00:08:22.53\00:08:26.17
most of these things,
with assistance and with help,
00:08:26.20\00:08:29.90
can be changed -
if they're willing to.
00:08:29.94\00:08:32.41
You know and whereby having
a more productive relationship
00:08:32.44\00:08:37.45
and something
that's more... you know,
00:08:37.48\00:08:39.55
"I'm not coming home to
like, ohh - I'm going home
00:08:39.58\00:08:41.75
to him or her again,"
but, you know, you're in a
00:08:41.78\00:08:44.12
place where you want
to be, where you enjoy.
00:08:44.15\00:08:46.76
And yes, conflict
is going to come up,
00:08:46.79\00:08:48.62
but I'm able to work
through it because now I have
00:08:48.66\00:08:50.89
the means and the
mechanism and the tools
00:08:50.93\00:08:53.19
to do what has to be done. Yes
00:08:53.23\00:08:56.43
Pastor, I wanted to ask
you... I have several ministers
00:08:56.46\00:08:59.93
and more so their wives
that would contact me and
00:08:59.97\00:09:04.61
tell me, "Hey, you know what,
this "silent-sufferer" thing
00:09:04.64\00:09:07.64
is real, happening to me,"
and if you think other people
00:09:07.68\00:09:10.81
in the church
have no one to talk to,
00:09:10.85\00:09:12.51
you should try talking to a
pastor's wife is what they said.
00:09:12.55\00:09:16.02
And, they always pulled
me aside because, of course,
00:09:16.05\00:09:18.65
their minister-husband cannot
see them, you know complaining
00:09:18.69\00:09:22.42
about something
that is supposed to be
00:09:22.46\00:09:24.16
private and secret.
00:09:24.19\00:09:25.96
You're in the ministry -
is there anything that you can
00:09:25.99\00:09:28.40
suggest or offer to help?
00:09:28.43\00:09:30.77
What I can tell you is real,
my wife can speak more to the
00:09:30.80\00:09:33.10
pastor's wife struggle.
00:09:33.13\00:09:34.47
I can tell you as a
pastor, it's very difficult.
00:09:34.50\00:09:37.44
Most pastors are silent
00:09:37.47\00:09:38.81
sufferers,
there's nowhere to go.
00:09:38.84\00:09:40.44
Especially within Adventism,
this may not sound good,
00:09:40.48\00:09:43.45
but sometimes it can be
very political and so you don't
00:09:43.48\00:09:46.75
want to expose your
weaknesses because, you know,
00:09:46.78\00:09:49.08
for fear of people
taking advantage of that.
00:09:49.12\00:09:50.99
But pastors are
put on a pedestal;
00:09:51.02\00:09:53.25
we're expected to
be the most godly. Yes
00:09:53.29\00:09:56.09
You know, we're counselors,
I guess by nature some of us
00:09:56.12\00:09:58.39
are expected not to have
problems and so when people
00:09:58.43\00:10:03.00
know we have problems,
it's almost like a weakness.
00:10:03.03\00:10:05.93
People respect us less,
they don't want to hear from
00:10:05.97\00:10:08.97
you when you're preaching
because... "Well, he's going
00:10:09.00\00:10:10.81
through this and he
has that struggle...
00:10:10.84\00:10:12.51
So many pastors naturally put
up a front and it's something
00:10:12.54\00:10:17.31
that then really
started ministry.
00:10:17.35\00:10:18.95
If you study for ministry,
it really starts even in school.
00:10:18.98\00:10:21.58
You know, trying to
have that persona that says,
00:10:21.62\00:10:24.22
"Well, you know, I'm a pastor,
so I've kind of made it."
00:10:24.25\00:10:27.52
But it's a real struggle.
00:10:27.56\00:10:29.06
But what I do personally
is... I surround myself
00:10:29.09\00:10:31.69
with other pastor-friends
who I know are humans,
00:10:31.73\00:10:34.40
you know, who have tendencies
to just have a bad day,
00:10:34.43\00:10:38.50
and, you know, we hold
each other accountable...
00:10:38.53\00:10:41.20
But we're also there to
help each other vent, we talk,
00:10:41.24\00:10:44.71
we do things that are not
necessarily Bible-related.
00:10:44.74\00:10:47.94
You know, we may study together,
but other days, who knows,
00:10:47.98\00:10:49.94
we may play a
video game together.
00:10:49.98\00:10:51.31
We may just go out and play
basketball, maybe at the gym.
00:10:51.35\00:10:53.38
You know, may just talk and
it kind of helps us to relieve
00:10:53.42\00:10:56.89
some of that
anxiety and stress. Yeah
00:10:56.92\00:10:59.85
Thank you, and there's
another aspect of this...
00:10:59.89\00:11:04.43
The research is showing
that the loneliness people
00:11:04.46\00:11:06.80
in the world are not
people who are alone,
00:11:06.83\00:11:09.80
but people who are lonely
within the marriage. Right
00:11:09.83\00:11:13.10
And so the science is saying
that you shorten your life
00:11:13.13\00:11:17.01
by about 3.5 years if you
find yourself in a marriage
00:11:17.04\00:11:22.21
where your needs are not
being met and you're suffering
00:11:22.24\00:11:26.45
silently.
00:11:26.48\00:11:28.12
I've actually sold some of the
books to folks at "Hope Cares"
00:11:28.15\00:11:32.02
who have come to me, after
they understood how it works,
00:11:32.05\00:11:34.22
and said, "You know
what, now that I understand it,
00:11:34.26\00:11:36.36
I think I may have contributed
00:11:36.39\00:11:37.99
to the early
demise of my partner."
00:11:38.03\00:11:40.16
One guy in
particular and he was crying.
00:11:40.20\00:11:41.70
He said, "I didn't know, I
didn't know how this worked
00:11:41.73\00:11:43.87
with the oxytocin and the
need to have these needs met.
00:11:43.90\00:11:47.04
I had no idea and
now my loved one is gone
00:11:47.07\00:11:49.34
and I don't know
what to do about it."
00:11:49.37\00:11:51.17
Of course, he needed some
coaching or some counseling.
00:11:51.21\00:11:54.18
So this is real when we
consider the impact we can have
00:11:54.21\00:11:58.05
from a health standpoint. Yes
00:11:58.08\00:12:00.52
I just wanted to
quickly ask you...
00:12:00.55\00:12:01.88
Did you have
anything that you...
00:12:01.92\00:12:04.29
Well, I'm pretty much new
to this pastor's wife game,
00:12:04.32\00:12:09.16
but one thing I have noticed
is that it's very difficult
00:12:09.19\00:12:13.56
for people who are not in
pastor families to understand
00:12:13.60\00:12:17.57
the struggles of a
pastor family and when you are
00:12:17.60\00:12:21.77
the pastor family, who
are you going to go to...
00:12:21.80\00:12:23.64
a church member to
talk about your problems?
00:12:23.67\00:12:25.21
It doesn't work that way,
you know, so it's just like
00:12:25.24\00:12:29.08
Kory said, you know, surrounding
yourself with other people
00:12:29.11\00:12:32.41
who have been there,
people who you can talk to
00:12:32.45\00:12:35.82
and be real with - it does help
a lot, but there are people who
00:12:35.85\00:12:40.42
are going through some things.
00:12:40.46\00:12:43.99
I want to thank you guys
for sharing, so tenderly,
00:12:44.03\00:12:48.26
your personal stories.
00:12:48.30\00:12:49.66
I know this could not
be easy, but you've done it
00:12:49.70\00:12:54.27
and I'm certain that you
will help some souls out there,
00:12:54.30\00:12:58.51
and I want to thank you
for that. You're welcome.
00:12:58.54\00:13:01.28
So until we
meet again next time,
00:13:01.31\00:13:04.98
keep doing everything
that you can do to bring out
00:13:05.01\00:13:07.52
some of those silent
sufferers and offer them
00:13:07.55\00:13:09.65
and opportunity to vent.
00:13:09.68\00:13:11.95
Thank you. You're welcome.
00:13:11.99\00:13:13.32
I'd like to
welcome back our singles,
00:13:17.53\00:13:19.86
Kisha, Jason,
Jameelah. Thank you!
00:13:19.89\00:13:22.96
Today we are talking
about "silent suffering."
00:13:23.00\00:13:25.93
I know this sounds like a topic
more geared toward couples,
00:13:25.97\00:13:30.01
but the fact of the matter is,
I've heard from so many singles,
00:13:30.04\00:13:33.27
that I know for a fact that
you guys sometimes suffer more
00:13:33.31\00:13:37.68
than couples do.
00:13:37.71\00:13:39.35
You're looking for someone
and especially the ladies,
00:13:39.38\00:13:43.82
we will talk in a
minute about the ratio between
00:13:43.85\00:13:47.69
women and men, single females
and single males in the church.
00:13:48.72\00:13:52.99
It's not encouraging and it
can create a lot of frustration.
00:13:53.03\00:13:57.27
But I wanted to share a
story with you about something
00:13:57.30\00:13:59.80
that happened to me in New York.
00:13:59.83\00:14:02.14
I'm not going to call
the church, naturally,
00:14:02.17\00:14:04.24
or the young lady's name,
but I was doing some recruiting
00:14:04.27\00:14:07.41
for this very program and
trying to get, participants,
00:14:07.44\00:14:10.88
guests to come on the
show, and this young lady was
00:14:10.91\00:14:12.75
was very interested, so
at the end of the service,
00:14:12.78\00:14:15.15
she came up to me and she
said, "Can I be on the show?"
00:14:15.18\00:14:18.42
Well, I thought she looked
like a good candidate, you know,
00:14:18.45\00:14:21.69
so I figured I would
spend the potluck hours with her
00:14:21.72\00:14:26.06
like 2 hours because I want
to make sure that she's a little
00:14:26.09\00:14:28.66
extrovert, she can talk.
00:14:28.70\00:14:30.23
So we went down to
the basement for potluck.
00:14:30.27\00:14:32.87
She was very attractive;
she was from the east coast;
00:14:32.90\00:14:36.91
she had her
degree; she had everything
00:14:36.94\00:14:39.84
that you would want,
Jason, in a young lady.
00:14:39.87\00:14:42.44
And as I said, I could
not find any flaw in her.
00:14:42.48\00:14:47.95
But this is what she said to
me, we sat down and she said,
00:14:47.98\00:14:50.79
"Dr. Jacob, I want you to
sit with me, I want you to see
00:14:50.82\00:14:53.42
something... this is my
first time visiting this church,
00:14:53.46\00:14:56.29
but it happens to me
every time in every church."
00:14:56.32\00:15:00.00
"There's going to be at
least one young man here that is
00:15:00.03\00:15:02.70
attracted to me - I'm
going to catch him staring,
00:15:02.73\00:15:06.43
from off on the side,
kind of like a satellite,
00:15:06.47\00:15:11.01
but never comes in...
He'll circle, he'll watch me.
00:15:11.04\00:15:15.14
He'll check me out, but
never develops enough courage
00:15:15.18\00:15:18.58
to step up to me and say,
"Hey, I've been noticing you,
00:15:18.61\00:15:21.58
what's your name,
I'd like to meet you."
00:15:21.62\00:15:23.99
And I said to her, "If
this is your first time,
00:15:24.02\00:15:26.42
you couldn't possibly
predict that this would happen."
00:15:26.45\00:15:28.09
She said, "But this
happens every single time."
00:15:28.12\00:15:29.82
I said, "Okay, well
let's check it out."
00:15:29.86\00:15:31.83
I sat with her -
within 5 minutes...
00:15:31.86\00:15:33.83
She said, "Look to your
right." I looked to my right,
00:15:33.86\00:15:37.40
and way off in the distance,
there was this young man
00:15:37.43\00:15:39.67
that was looking at her
through the corner of his eyes.
00:15:39.70\00:15:42.60
I thought it was just, you know,
coincidental until she moved,
00:15:42.64\00:15:47.18
he moved; she went to another
table, he changes position.
00:15:47.21\00:15:51.25
He actually was checking
her out for about an hour,
00:15:51.28\00:15:54.55
never, ever stepping up
and she said, "You know what?
00:15:54.58\00:15:57.79
If he steps up to me,
we'd be going on a date
00:15:57.82\00:16:00.36
because I think he's attractive,
he looks like a good guy!
00:16:00.39\00:16:02.76
I'd give him a chance,
but it never happened."
00:16:02.79\00:16:05.39
So I said, "So
you're right about this."
00:16:05.43\00:16:07.06
She said, "But I'm not
finished, before I leave here,
00:16:07.10\00:16:10.23
there will be another guy
that's a little more interested,
00:16:10.27\00:16:12.93
a little more brave...
He's going to step up to me,
00:16:12.97\00:16:15.67
he's going to come
and have conversation,
00:16:15.70\00:16:17.81
but he's not going
to ask for my number."
00:16:17.84\00:16:20.38
I kept thinking... did she
stage this because she couldn't
00:16:20.41\00:16:23.04
possibly be so correct,
but she said, "This is exactly
00:16:23.08\00:16:25.28
how it happens
every single time."
00:16:25.31\00:16:26.88
And lo and behold,
within about 10 minutes,
00:16:26.92\00:16:29.55
there's this brother...
He comes up, he did look a
00:16:29.58\00:16:31.92
little more - he had
a little bit more swag,
00:16:31.95\00:16:33.52
a little bit more confidence
and he came up and he said,
00:16:33.56\00:16:35.76
"Hi, how are you
doing? My name is so and so,
00:16:35.79\00:16:38.09
what's your name?
Where are you from?"
00:16:38.13\00:16:39.96
He exchanged a
lot of information.
00:16:40.00\00:16:41.76
I sat there eating, pretending
I'm not minding their business
00:16:41.80\00:16:45.53
for about 15
minutes... He clearly liked her!
00:16:45.57\00:16:50.11
But didn't ask for her
number and she left that day
00:16:50.14\00:16:53.41
never to return to that church.
00:16:53.44\00:16:55.51
Why does this happen?
00:16:55.54\00:16:58.75
The ratio is
already... of course... laughter
00:16:58.78\00:17:02.82
Why do guys do this?
00:17:04.49\00:17:06.55
I keep hearing... and
this is across the country,
00:17:06.59\00:17:08.62
I'm from California,
but this was New York.
00:17:08.66\00:17:10.36
California it's
the same complaint.
00:17:10.39\00:17:11.86
Guys would be
interested, the girls will know
00:17:11.89\00:17:14.40
they're interested,
but the guys would not
00:17:14.43\00:17:16.20
step up and do
something about it.
00:17:16.23\00:17:19.03
What is your wisdom?
00:17:19.07\00:17:20.57
Well first of all, I'm
going to have to get on a flight
00:17:20.60\00:17:22.90
and go to New York show
these brothers how it's done,
00:17:22.94\00:17:24.94
and second of all, you
know, sometimes it can be a
00:17:24.97\00:17:30.68
number of things...
it can be the young lady,
00:17:30.71\00:17:34.02
is she approachable?
00:17:34.05\00:17:35.78
Some people have a face
and a demeanor about themselves
00:17:35.82\00:17:40.46
and they may not realize it.
00:17:40.49\00:17:42.56
It's just like when
people think about something,
00:17:42.59\00:17:45.49
and it shows up on their face.
00:17:45.53\00:17:47.40
You know, it's just not
something they can really
00:17:47.43\00:17:49.70
control, but sometimes they
have a demeanor that makes a guy
00:17:49.73\00:17:54.94
kind of stand offish.
00:17:54.97\00:17:56.50
Then there are some guys
that, I guess they just lack
00:17:56.54\00:17:59.74
confidence or they
don't go after what they want.
00:17:59.77\00:18:03.24
You know and I mean,
if you see a young lady
00:18:03.28\00:18:05.61
and you're
interested in pursuing her,
00:18:05.65\00:18:07.22
then you gotta go get it.
00:18:07.25\00:18:09.25
You know, you gotta go get her
00:18:09.28\00:18:11.82
and try and
display your interest.
00:18:11.85\00:18:16.69
And, as a woman,
hopefully she will display that
00:18:16.73\00:18:20.16
interest back and let you
know that she is interested
00:18:20.20\00:18:23.26
so you don't feel
like an idiot. Right
00:18:23.30\00:18:26.10
So, basically, what I
hear you saying is that guys
00:18:26.13\00:18:27.97
are concerned about their
image and how they would look
00:18:28.00\00:18:31.04
if they get shot down.
00:18:31.07\00:18:32.74
Yes, some people
are afraid of rejection.
00:18:32.77\00:18:35.54
Um, I mean, me
personally, rejection...
00:18:35.58\00:18:39.81
If you reject me,
there's a whole bunch of
00:18:39.85\00:18:42.08
people in the world... Okay?
00:18:42.12\00:18:44.35
One rejection is not going
to hurt my feelings like that.
00:18:44.39\00:18:49.39
I'd rather be rejected than
know that I'd never even tried.
00:18:49.42\00:18:55.36
But I hear that
you're in the minority.
00:18:55.40\00:18:58.87
I hear that guys like
you, standup guys, you know,
00:18:58.90\00:19:01.80
that have some
backbone and some confidence
00:19:01.84\00:19:04.34
in our church - what I'm
hearing from the young ladies
00:19:04.37\00:19:06.24
is that you are a
rare gem. You are? Yeah
00:19:06.27\00:19:09.81
Generally guys don't, you know,
step up and take care of... yeah
00:19:09.84\00:19:14.18
Well I just... I might
have found a new business
00:19:14.22\00:19:16.32
to get into - maybe I
can start offering workshop,
00:19:16.35\00:19:19.42
in some of these churches
for some money, you never know.
00:19:19.45\00:19:23.89
But I'm also an XX though
and how many people are XX's
00:19:23.93\00:19:28.10
that are guys - like what
percentage, it's very rare.
00:19:28.13\00:19:32.83
Well yeah, XX is about
25% of guys are X-types,
00:19:32.87\00:19:36.57
so you are
definitely a rare gem,
00:19:36.60\00:19:38.57
but about 70% of women are,
00:19:38.61\00:19:40.64
so really,
you're the guy to find.
00:19:40.68\00:19:42.91
He's in Marion, see, we
had to come all the way over
00:19:43.51\00:19:45.25
here to meet him, it's not
making sense, it's ridiculous!
00:19:45.28\00:19:49.02
And they keep
him up here at 3ABN,
00:19:49.05\00:19:50.49
I mean, this is not
helping the pool. Right? Right
00:19:50.52\00:19:53.46
Yeah, this is not
helping us at all.
00:19:53.49\00:19:55.52
And I think,
another part of it like...
00:19:55.56\00:19:57.49
because guys don't
have to try that hard.
00:19:57.53\00:19:59.63
You know, so the guy who
went up to her and have the
00:19:59.66\00:20:04.40
conversation with
her... he doesn't have to try
00:20:04.43\00:20:06.63
to get her number,
he's probably go so many
00:20:06.67\00:20:08.60
other women's
numbers in his phone.
00:20:08.64\00:20:10.41
So it's like "why,"
like you're going to leave,
00:20:10.44\00:20:12.84
I can just toss you
up for right now and then
00:20:12.87\00:20:15.61
you'll be gone, so why do
I need to get your number?
00:20:15.64\00:20:19.08
Kind of a supply and
demand kind of thing. Um hm
00:20:19.11\00:20:21.08
Another thing I've heard
though from a lot of guys is
00:20:21.12\00:20:23.32
there's always been, I guess
what I call the "click factor."
00:20:23.35\00:20:26.52
A lot of girls hang out
in clicks and there would be
00:20:26.55\00:20:28.66
like five girls and then you'd
find 2 or 3 of them attractive,
00:20:28.69\00:20:31.59
and then if they talk to
one and it doesn't work out,
00:20:31.63\00:20:33.80
they can't talk to any of
the rest of them in the group.
00:20:33.83\00:20:35.66
So then it's
like... so, right, okay...
00:20:35.70\00:20:40.97
Have you experienced that?
00:20:41.00\00:20:42.34
I mean that ruins it,
like if I come and try and talk
00:20:42.37\00:20:45.11
to you and she's right here and
then I try and talk to her...
00:20:45.14\00:20:49.08
... Yeah, then you don't look
like you ever were interested
00:20:49.11\00:20:52.15
in her, you just look like
you're interested in anyone.
00:20:52.18\00:20:54.12
But you don't do that, keep
strategy, you gotta seize it.
00:20:54.15\00:20:56.32
What is the strategy?
00:20:56.35\00:20:57.69
First of all, if you talk
to me separately one-on right,
00:20:57.72\00:21:00.72
and I deny you, nobody
knows that but you and I,
00:21:00.76\00:21:03.06
and if you act
accordingly and act correct,
00:21:03.09\00:21:05.16
and don't act a fool,
then I won't have to go back
00:21:05.19\00:21:07.86
and tell everybody -
"Don't talk to him, girl,
00:21:07.90\00:21:10.23
he's a player or whatever."
00:21:10.27\00:21:11.60
It all depends on how you
approach me and when you do it.
00:21:11.63\00:21:14.47
But some men don't think
and they'll wait until you're
00:21:14.50\00:21:17.27
at a party with 800 of your
girlfriends and want to come in
00:21:17.31\00:21:19.74
the middle of the circle to
talk you and that's just crazy.
00:21:19.77\00:21:22.48
But I do have a question...
What if you guys were at a
00:21:22.51\00:21:25.38
potluck and I know that you guys
do potlucks back in California,
00:21:25.41\00:21:28.85
and you are all in a
room, pretty much like this,
00:21:28.88\00:21:31.45
so there are 50 of you
there and maybe 35 of you are
00:21:31.49\00:21:34.92
women - let's just
say, and 15 are guys...
00:21:34.96\00:21:37.53
How does a guy
thin the herd here?
00:21:37.56\00:21:40.33
How does a guy get you
off to the side so that
00:21:40.36\00:21:43.26
he could avoid that scenario
00:21:43.30\00:21:45.37
that you described
because you guys are all
00:21:45.40\00:21:47.04
together, you know what
I'm saying, he's not going to
00:21:47.07\00:21:49.00
ask you, "Excuse me, do
you mind stepping aside?"
00:21:49.04\00:21:50.94
I mean, we have to
go to the bathroom...
00:21:50.97\00:21:53.11
that's the first thing, right?
00:21:53.14\00:21:54.94
Which is in a group!
That was not a group! Laughter
00:21:54.98\00:21:58.65
Women go to the bathroom
as if they need each other.
00:22:02.18\00:22:05.02
No! Like they own each other,
they are holding the mirror...
00:22:05.05\00:22:08.22
No, there's only one
bathroom and you go by yourself.
00:22:08.26\00:22:12.33
So why do you go together
if there's one bathroom?
00:22:12.36\00:22:13.70
But we don't go
together at potlucks like that
00:22:13.73\00:22:16.13
when there's one bathroom.
00:22:16.16\00:22:17.50
We go together at
events, but not at a potluck.
00:22:17.53\00:22:19.83
I don't know, Jason, I think
I've seen that crowd effect.
00:22:19.87\00:22:22.87
There's plenty of
opportunity for you to do that
00:22:22.90\00:22:25.44
or for you to
approach me by myself.
00:22:25.47\00:22:28.18
I gotta go to my car,
I have to go outside...
00:22:28.21\00:22:30.38
I mean there are a lot
of different things and ways
00:22:30.41\00:22:32.61
that you can do it...
it's really all about how you
00:22:32.65\00:22:34.98
approach it, but the confidence,
00:22:35.02\00:22:36.38
I think, is what we're lacking,
in a lot of our Adventist men.
00:22:36.42\00:22:39.99
It's the confidence and
the intention and aggression
00:22:40.02\00:22:44.06
in and all of that because
if I go to another church,
00:22:44.09\00:22:47.03
I get talked to 5 or 6
times before I even get
00:22:47.06\00:22:49.50
to the pew to sit down.
00:22:49.53\00:22:51.93
I was just like
- "Oh, it's crazy."
00:22:51.97\00:22:54.44
If a brother follows you to the
car, that might be a little...
00:22:54.47\00:22:57.77
and he might be
looking at you, yeah
00:22:57.81\00:22:59.74
No, it doesn't have to
happen that way though.
00:22:59.77\00:23:03.14
And it doesn't have
to be that way though,
00:23:03.18\00:23:04.51
It all depends on how you do it.
00:23:04.55\00:23:05.95
I mean, I'm just walking
that way and they're like,
00:23:05.98\00:23:07.88
"Oh, how are you doing? or
"Did you like the potluck?"
00:23:07.92\00:23:09.88
or whatever - just casual
conversation and then from that
00:23:09.92\00:23:12.85
conversation, it
could lead to other ones.
00:23:12.89\00:23:14.69
Or, "Okay, what are you
doing after the potluck?"
00:23:14.72\00:23:18.36
Which most of the
time it's the same thing
00:23:18.39\00:23:20.00
we always usually do...
00:23:20.03\00:23:21.36
So I'll tell you what I'm doing,
"Oh okay, we're doing this too,
00:23:21.40\00:23:24.30
Do you want to
come?" or whatever.
00:23:24.33\00:23:25.83
It could just be very
intentional, but I think that
00:23:25.87\00:23:28.44
people are playful.
00:23:28.47\00:23:29.80
Yeah, I think what I've seen
is, that guys really do lack
00:23:29.84\00:23:33.71
the intention of being
serious about wanting to be in a
00:23:33.74\00:23:37.15
relationship - so they want to
date, they want to mess around,
00:23:37.18\00:23:40.95
they want to do whatever,
but to say that, "Hey, I'm going
00:23:40.98\00:23:44.52
to intentionally talk to this
girl and make her my girlfriend,
00:23:44.55\00:23:48.82
go further - it's not
something that happens.
00:23:48.86\00:23:52.13
So it's like they end up
do talking to the same girl
00:23:52.16\00:23:56.06
in the same group, but the
girls don't know it. Right!
00:23:56.10\00:23:58.90
You know, so it's like
they go under the underground
00:23:58.93\00:24:03.00
and try talking to everybody
which isn't fair because,
00:24:03.04\00:24:06.27
you know, I'm thinking, "Oh
wow, he really cares about me,"
00:24:06.31\00:24:08.84
but at the same time, he really
cares about my friend. Right
00:24:08.88\00:24:11.28
I hadn't heard that.
00:24:11.31\00:24:13.75
Right, but somebody told me
that all the cute girls hang out
00:24:13.78\00:24:16.38
together - that
isn't helpful, you know.
00:24:16.42\00:24:19.69
I don't know about that one.
00:24:19.72\00:24:21.39
If you guys were spreading it
around a little bit, you know,
00:24:21.42\00:24:23.53
then... We would have to go find
00:24:23.56\00:24:24.89
ugly friends so
we could get a man?
00:24:24.93\00:24:26.39
Yeah... I think
that's a terrible...
00:24:29.50\00:24:31.30
Don't be
scattered. Very deplorable.
00:24:31.33\00:24:33.30
So Jason, one of these
young ladies, I won't say who,
00:24:33.34\00:24:37.01
wanted me to ask you -
what signals does a guy give off
00:24:37.04\00:24:42.64
when he's interested
because they're thinking that
00:24:42.68\00:24:44.35
maybe they're
missing the signals somehow.
00:24:44.38\00:24:46.45
Well, I mean, I guess
it varies for each guy.
00:24:46.48\00:24:51.69
I mean if, clearly, somebody
is looking at you wanting
00:24:51.72\00:24:56.22
to interact with you, talk
to you and make eye contact...
00:24:56.26\00:25:03.53
Well if they don't have
confidence, they're not going
00:25:03.57\00:25:05.87
to make eye contact.
Clearly, we know that one.
00:25:05.93\00:25:07.54
But, you know, if you're
interested in that person,
00:25:07.60\00:25:10.37
you look at them a certain
way, there's a certain look,
00:25:10.41\00:25:13.17
like I can't - I don't
even know how to explain it.
00:25:13.21\00:25:16.21
It's just a feeling and
then a look that you give off
00:25:16.24\00:25:20.58
and display that and by
just constantly you want to be
00:25:20.62\00:25:24.35
around that person,
you just got to step up
00:25:24.39\00:25:27.72
to the plate and I don't
know what these guys are doing!
00:25:27.76\00:25:30.39
Why can't you just be
like, "Hey, I like you,"
00:25:30.43\00:25:33.50
why is that not the statement?
00:25:33.53\00:25:36.50
Why is it, I have to
look for eye contact?
00:25:36.53\00:25:38.60
I have to look for
these cues that I could miss.
00:25:38.63\00:25:41.37
Why isn't it just -
straight to the point.
00:25:41.40\00:25:43.24
See, that's a
whole nother conversation
00:25:43.27\00:25:44.61
and we ain't got time to
get to that - you already know.
00:25:44.64\00:25:46.68
You all had good contributions
and I want to thank you.
00:25:46.71\00:25:48.24
We will talk next time
about speaking intelligently.
00:25:48.28\00:25:51.18
I cannot tell you how many
times a wife has pulled me aside
00:25:54.82\00:25:58.22
to disclose to me how
much neglect she is suffering
00:25:58.25\00:26:00.59
in the relationship and
her suffering is nothing new.
00:26:00.62\00:26:04.23
Even centuries ago,
Peter addressed the same issues
00:26:04.26\00:26:07.16
in the early church.
00:26:07.20\00:26:08.53
The Bible states in 1 Peter
3:7, "Husbands in the same way
00:26:08.56\00:26:12.27
be considerate with your wives,
being thoughtful of their needs,
00:26:12.30\00:26:15.84
and honoring them as the
weaker partner and as heirs with
00:26:15.87\00:26:19.07
you of the gracious gift
of life so that nothing will
00:26:19.11\00:26:22.64
hinder your prayers."
00:26:22.68\00:26:24.01
Religious leaders are
particularly vulnerable
00:26:24.05\00:26:26.61
as are workers in the church.
00:26:26.65\00:26:28.85
We have seen that men were
conditioned from the days of
00:26:28.88\00:26:31.59
Adam to derive self-esteem from
their day job, their careers.
00:26:31.62\00:26:35.92
When God told Adam he
would be assigned the job of
00:26:35.96\00:26:38.99
finding food for the
family outside of the home,
00:26:39.03\00:26:42.33
this changed his new anatomy.
00:26:42.36\00:26:44.00
It changed his brain, it
reshaped his personality.
00:26:44.03\00:26:47.30
He became Y-like, he
did not need conversation
00:26:47.34\00:26:51.31
to hunt game or
to fish or to garden.
00:26:51.34\00:26:53.64
In fact, silence was
preferred if not required.
00:26:53.68\00:26:57.35
And once home with the
family, he struggled to adjust
00:26:57.38\00:27:00.55
to Eve's more social,
conversant personality.
00:27:00.58\00:27:03.59
In anticipation
of this, God told Eve
00:27:03.62\00:27:05.82
immediately after the
fall that her desire would be
00:27:05.85\00:27:09.39
toward or in excess of Adam's.
00:27:09.42\00:27:11.73
This set up at least two things,
the mismatch in personality
00:27:11.76\00:27:15.63
and needs we see today
in 85% of couples and an
00:27:15.66\00:27:19.80
unwillingness on the part of
the less communicating partner
00:27:19.83\00:27:23.04
to acknowledge the
problem or to seek help.
00:27:23.07\00:27:26.14
In fact, Y-types take
privacy about their relationship
00:27:26.17\00:27:29.78
very seriously.
00:27:29.81\00:27:31.15
The naturally X-type
partner unable to access the
00:27:31.18\00:27:34.65
relief that comes from
sharing his or her distress
00:27:34.68\00:27:38.29
suffers silently
and considerably.
00:27:38.32\00:27:40.89
This is the fate of
all XY couples in ministry
00:27:40.92\00:27:44.56
or church leadership.
00:27:44.59\00:27:45.99
Moreover, what will
members think of a minister
00:27:46.03\00:27:48.66
with marital problems that
he was unable to pray away?
00:27:48.70\00:27:51.67
Join us next time
on "Road to Romance"
00:27:51.70\00:27:55.07