The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Hello, welcome to Pure Choices.
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My name is
Brittany Hill-Morales,
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and I am today's host.
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We have a really interesting
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and
controversial topic for today.
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We are talking
about after the affair.
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What do you do as...
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You're married, your
spouse cheated on you,
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and now you're
wondering, should I divorce
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or should I stay
married, what should you do?
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We're gonna have the discussion,
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but before we jump in,
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we're gonna pray, so let's pray.
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Dear kind and
most heavenly Father,
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dear Lord, I pray that You
will lead our conversation here
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and You also be
with the viewers at home.
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Thank you so much for
everything that You've done
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and continue to do,
in Jesus' name, amen.
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Amen. Amen.
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Amen, so today, we
have two wonderful people
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over here on the couch.
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We have Pastor
Keith Hackle from Iowa,
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and we also have
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Mrs. Dajanae
Anderson from Texas.
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So we're all married.
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Yes.
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I know there's one thing
we none of us want to happen.
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We do not want
our spouse to cheat,
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and we also don't
want it for our friends.
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Some of us,
we've seen growing up,
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the damage of affairs,
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what it does to not
only the couple itself
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but to the
families, their friends.
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And marriage was an
institution created by God.
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Before the fall, it
was declared very good.
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But we know because of sin,
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all these different stuff
we do had a lot of issues.
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Right. So let's go...
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It's like basic question.
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What is an affair?
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An affair...
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is when you are inappropriately
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intimate with someone
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that is not your spouse.
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And so, I know there
are some people define
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that had to be sexual,
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and some people
define that to be emotional.
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And I was recently informed
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that there are actually three
different levels of affairs
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that people
consider things to be affairs
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and sometimes it can be sexual
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but not emotional,
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so, and I've seen that,
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so it's, I don't love her
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when it's, you know, the guy is,
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the man is having an
affair with another women.
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I don't love her.
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It's just a sexual thing.
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My heart is still at home,
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or if it is emotional to where
it's like you need to relax,
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we haven't had sex.
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Then, but there's
still inappropriate reality
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in the intimacy that is present,
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so I've seen those things.
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I think it's tough.
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It could be, I would just say
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if I could give it a definition
outside of the dictionary
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then I would just say,
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an act that goes beyond
what is expected or accepted
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by your mate
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because it ranges, it
could be, for some people,
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it's just a fact that you
were texting this other person.
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Yeah.
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I feel like you had an affair,
while others, it could be,
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hey, a kiss is okay,
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but we didn't go
further than that.
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So I think it's relational,
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like it depends
on each relationship,
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what boundaries you've set,
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and so then the
spouse will have to say this,
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and this is how I
feel about what you did,
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but definitely a breach of
expectations or limitations
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that have been set by
the realm of the marriage.
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But I would also add
that there is certain things
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that just should not happen.
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Right.
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Despite what, if you said
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'cause I know some
people have open relationships,
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and I'm gonna trying to
be like, okay, that's you,
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but as a
Christian who serves God
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and what God
has designed for us,
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open relationships
are having affairs,
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it's just that your
spouse knows about it.
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And is pretending
to be okay with it.
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Kissing somebody
else, that, for me,
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and based on how
the Bible is and God is.
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I don't think He wants us.
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Do I say, if someone told me,
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well, you know, that's how
my husband and I are set up.
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No.
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Something's wrong with that,
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you need to sit down
and try to figure out,
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why would you even want
to make that acceptable.
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Share intimacy,
yeah, with somebody else.
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And I would also, going back to,
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there are three
different levels.
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The sexual but not emotional,
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the sexual and emotional,
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then the
emotional but not sexual,
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just to talk on that
factor for little bit.
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I wouldn't want my spouse
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to be conversing
with someone else for two,
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especially on deep situations
that mainly like concerning me.
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Yes, we should be able to have
opposite gender relationships.
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There is a certain level
of healthy, that's acceptable.
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But when you are spending
more time on the phone with...
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In my case, being, you
know, I'm married to my husband,
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you're spending more
time on phone with her,
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it's 2 o'clock in the morning
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and you're
talking to her at 2 a.m.
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And like honey, it's not
sexual, but still it's 2 a.m.
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I haven't spoken to
you since last week,
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Tuesday, today is
Friday, this is the problem.
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Right, right.
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And there's like certain things
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that are outside
where you cannot do.
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But for a moment, let's
talk about sexual but emotional,
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and emotional,
sexual and emotional.
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Sexual and...
Okay, okay, so I...
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Can I make a comment on
what you just said with the...
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Because I think that's the
most sticky reality of affairs
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are the affairs
that aren't sexual.
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I think most people can identify
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that if I'm
having sexual relations
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whether it's emotional or not
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that you have breached
the marriage relationship.
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But when it comes to
the lack of sexual intimacy
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outside of the marriage,
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then people begin to
justify what's going on
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to try to make it seem
like it's not a negative thing.
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And so, I have lots of...
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I have met many people,
people that I care about
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that have taught me
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that if there's an
emotional connection,
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many people stay in
contact with their exes, right?
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And so, they're in,
you know, relationships,
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they may not be married,
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but then I say,
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what are you going
to do if you end up.
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You're in a
relationship with one person,
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but you're still talking to,
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and investing time
into, and exposing.
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You're still
telling this person,
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who you are,
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what's going on
in your day to day.
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You're possibly
even telling them
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what's going on
in your relationship,
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knowing that there
is more than friendship,
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there's more than a
friendship chemistry
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between you and this person
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because of your history
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or because of things
that have been expressed
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verbally or non-verbally,
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and then you say, but then
you're trying to move forward
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in the actual relationship,
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the declared
relationship that you're in.
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And I believe
that this relationship
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will never be
able to grow as fully
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as, you know, God may intend,
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or you may kind of want,
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or this person
may definitely want
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because they don't know
what's going on over here.
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And so I think that
there's the emotional part
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that happens with men and women,
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happens with men and women,
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you know, people say
that women are more emotional
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than men are,
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and I'm not here to
argue that truth or non-truth,
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but definitely men
still have emotions...
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True.
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And so a relationship
is still going to be...
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The man is still going
to be emotionally effected
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by whatever kind of
relationship he is in.
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And so I think there is...
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I think we need to start
on being honest with ourselves
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about why we want
this person around.
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And if there is...
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If you cannot tell your spouse
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the things that
you are discussing
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with this other person,
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then you, then
that is a red flag
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that there's something wrong
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and inappropriate
with the relationship
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that you're having outside
of the declared relationship.
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If I could jump on
that really quickly.
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I had to be honest with myself.
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Before I was married, I found
myself in that situation twice,
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being with someone
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who was still in
contact with an ex.
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And I'm better now.
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My husband does not
do that, but I really had
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'cause every time I put
myself in situation like,
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what is going on?
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Right.
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And it was sort of point
in one of the relationships
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where I was like,
listen, I still love her,
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but I love you
and I'm choosing you.
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And I don't know why I
stayed in that relationship.
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Right.
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But that's a reality
where men do have emotions,
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so it could be like, you
know, I chose you, I love you,
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but, you know, I love...
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No, you're not
completely dedicated to me.
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You are still
with that other person.
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Right.
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And it's tough.
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But in that
instance, you've communicated,
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listen, this is how I feel.
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It gets really sticky when
individuals have children with
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the previous person, right?
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And so... Yeah.
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The communication
becomes important,
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being able to share what we've
talked about becomes important
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because it is a reality
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that those
previous relationships
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even though they're broken up,
that one party may feel like,
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you know what, this
could work out again, right?
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They may want you,
want that other person back,
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so if they see a
wedge being drawn
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in which you are keeping secrets
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from your spouse, right?
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You're not
willing to communicate
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or devote everything that
you've said to this person
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or they've said to
you, that becomes important,
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especially in this
age of social media.
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So what do you do
when you get a inbox
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from that individual
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that you used to be
involved with, right?
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Do you tell your
spouse, do you not?
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And so in our...
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In my marriage, my wife and
I, we have open communication,
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and so you have
to feel comfortable
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and being able to say,
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hey, this person
reached out to me.
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This person asked this question.
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Your
relationship has to determine
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whether it's okay for you
to stay in contact with that,
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that former person or not.
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And some people
are okay with it.
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Some people are like,
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yeah, you can
communicate with that person,
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but it's communication,
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you got to be careful
and you got to keep it open.
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And then just being passionate
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about the same things
sometimes creates a problem.
00:11:57.08\00:12:00.65
And so, we've had
issues at the churches
00:12:00.68\00:12:04.05
that I've pastored,
00:12:04.09\00:12:05.42
where individuals may
appreciate the same thing,
00:12:05.45\00:12:08.52
so let's say sports, right?
00:12:08.56\00:12:09.89
Let's say, my wife
doesn't like football.
00:12:09.92\00:12:12.13
But maybe there is
a lady in the church
00:12:12.16\00:12:14.13
who does like football,
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so every time
Sunday comes around,
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we're talking about the game,
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and we're having
in-depth conversations.
00:12:19.43\00:12:21.74
She may come over to the house
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and we may watch
the game together.
00:12:23.41\00:12:24.87
My wife hates football, right?
00:12:24.91\00:12:27.51
But now she sees this lady here
who's encroaching on her space
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and having a relationship
00:12:32.81\00:12:34.15
on a level that her
and her husband don't have.
00:12:34.18\00:12:36.32
And so she has to be
able to come to me and say,
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listen, dude, I don't feel
comfortable with this level,
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and then I, as her husband
have to receive how she feels.
00:12:41.29\00:12:45.29
And to be willing to
sacrifice this relationship
00:12:45.33\00:12:50.23
for the sake of making
sure that home stays intact.
00:12:50.27\00:12:54.54
But at the same time,
00:12:54.57\00:12:55.90
we as spouses have to understand
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that there may be people
who gel with our spouses,
00:12:57.47\00:13:01.58
I suppose get on a
level that we don't
00:13:01.61\00:13:04.18
and we must trust them
00:13:04.21\00:13:05.61
to maintain
those safe values so.
00:13:05.65\00:13:09.28
Yeah, I think that's a key word,
00:13:09.32\00:13:11.75
especially when it
comes to having relationships
00:13:11.79\00:13:14.86
with the opposite
sex that maybe are pure
00:13:14.89\00:13:18.03
because that does exist,
00:13:18.06\00:13:19.96
but if there's a lack of trust,
00:13:20.00\00:13:23.03
that may have something
to do with maybe our history,
00:13:23.06\00:13:26.03
or that may have
something to do with just me.
00:13:26.07\00:13:28.67
And so, being able to identify,
00:13:28.70\00:13:30.74
do I, am I
untrusting of this relationship,
00:13:30.77\00:13:33.91
you know, as a wife.
00:13:33.94\00:13:35.28
Am I untrusting
of this relationship
00:13:35.31\00:13:37.55
this women is
having with my husband
00:13:37.58\00:13:39.55
because my
husband has demonstrated
00:13:39.58\00:13:41.78
that he is not
trustworthy in this area,
00:13:41.82\00:13:45.22
or do I have previous history,
00:13:45.25\00:13:49.49
a previous history of hurt
00:13:49.52\00:13:50.86
to where maybe
I've been cheated on,
00:13:50.89\00:13:52.63
or have I seen men in
my life maybe cheat on,
00:13:52.66\00:13:57.20
and so I think that
this is a reality for most
00:13:57.23\00:13:59.77
or all men,
00:13:59.80\00:14:01.40
and so which one is it
00:14:01.44\00:14:03.20
and being able to
filter through that
00:14:03.24\00:14:05.41
I think is completely necessary.
00:14:05.44\00:14:08.88
And I think it's
unfair for us to expect things
00:14:08.91\00:14:12.98
out of our spouse
without evaluating
00:14:13.01\00:14:14.92
why we feel that way.
00:14:14.95\00:14:17.65
And as we're
talking about affairs,
00:14:17.69\00:14:19.65
this is an another element to it
00:14:19.69\00:14:21.22
with the whole sexuality,
the sexual but not emotional.
00:14:21.26\00:14:25.79
Sexual doesn't only
mean not going all the way,
00:14:25.83\00:14:30.27
having penetration
when you're in intercourse.
00:14:30.30\00:14:33.17
There are also
other sexual perversions
00:14:33.20\00:14:34.90
where it talks
about sexual immoralities.
00:14:34.94\00:14:37.04
It could be incest,
00:14:37.07\00:14:38.67
if your spouse whether it's
the husband or that the wife,
00:14:38.71\00:14:42.98
if they're
interfering with children.
00:14:43.01\00:14:45.65
That is an affair
00:14:45.68\00:14:47.02
'cause that's a
sexual perversion.
00:14:47.05\00:14:51.25
Again, like I said
before, abuse, if he's a rapist,
00:14:51.29\00:14:53.92
that is affair,
00:14:53.96\00:14:55.29
it may not be like we
said the emotional elements
00:14:55.32\00:14:58.33
because it's not there,
00:14:58.36\00:14:59.89
but it's still
sexual and it's not,
00:14:59.93\00:15:01.53
it's not honoring the bond
between the husband and wife,
00:15:01.56\00:15:03.67
there are even other
extremes such as physicality,
00:15:03.70\00:15:09.20
people having sex with objects.
00:15:09.24\00:15:11.47
Those are all
such different things
00:15:11.51\00:15:12.84
where you need
to really consider
00:15:12.87\00:15:14.21
and be like, okay, what's
going on in our relationship.
00:15:14.24\00:15:15.78
You're not committed
to me, you're not with me.
00:15:15.81\00:15:17.88
So when your
spouse has this affair
00:15:17.91\00:15:21.98
whether it's sexual,
sexual and emotional,
00:15:22.02\00:15:25.05
or only emotional,
00:15:25.09\00:15:27.06
what is the option after that?
00:15:27.09\00:15:29.42
What does that Bible say?
00:15:29.46\00:15:30.79
Do we choose to divorce,
do we choose to work it out?
00:15:30.83\00:15:33.90
What do you guys say?
00:15:33.93\00:15:36.60
Well, I think the
first question that you had
00:15:36.63\00:15:39.63
is more
important than the latter,
00:15:39.67\00:15:41.40
not that the
latter is not important,
00:15:41.44\00:15:43.00
but what does the Bible say,
00:15:43.04\00:15:44.91
what does the
Bible say about it?
00:15:44.94\00:15:47.38
And, you know, when Christ
was having this conversation,
00:15:47.41\00:15:53.25
he said that, you
know, that yes, there is...
00:15:53.28\00:15:56.69
You can
divorce, you can divorce,
00:15:56.72\00:16:00.52
but you do not have to divorce,
00:16:00.56\00:16:03.32
and so just
because an affair happens,
00:16:03.36\00:16:07.26
it is lawful to divorce,
00:16:07.30\00:16:09.93
it is lawful to take that step,
00:16:09.96\00:16:13.30
however, but however
what Christ demonstrates
00:16:13.34\00:16:18.74
is being consistent
00:16:18.77\00:16:21.08
and being faithful,
00:16:21.11\00:16:22.44
even when we are unfaithful,
00:16:22.48\00:16:24.31
and so that
marriage relationship,
00:16:24.35\00:16:26.35
Christ as the groom
and the church as the bride
00:16:26.38\00:16:32.42
being able to stay...
00:16:32.45\00:16:34.86
Christ is able to stay faithful.
00:16:34.89\00:16:37.06
2 Timothy talks about
how when we are unfaithful,
00:16:37.09\00:16:40.83
Christ remains the same
00:16:40.86\00:16:42.93
because He
cannot deny who He is.
00:16:42.96\00:16:45.40
And so there's this...
00:16:45.43\00:16:47.47
You have options,
you do have options,
00:16:47.50\00:16:49.74
but then the latter
question is which option,
00:16:49.77\00:16:52.27
like you said, do we choose,
00:16:52.31\00:16:54.64
even though the Bible makes room
00:16:54.68\00:16:57.01
for us to stay or to leave.
00:16:57.05\00:17:00.22
So let's say, you're leaning...
00:17:00.25\00:17:02.98
Let's say the option is divorce.
00:17:03.02\00:17:04.49
What would be the
factors that would say,
00:17:04.52\00:17:06.72
okay, yeah, we should divorce,
00:17:06.76\00:17:08.49
not be married anymore?
00:17:08.52\00:17:10.06
What would be those factors?
00:17:10.09\00:17:12.93
It can range, probably
the most important is we...
00:17:12.96\00:17:17.40
This just isn't healthy.
00:17:17.43\00:17:18.80
This would not be
healthy for us going beyond.
00:17:18.83\00:17:21.87
As Dajanae said, it's...
00:17:21.90\00:17:23.81
God gives us an option,
but that's not his preference,
00:17:23.84\00:17:26.21
even with the affair,
that's not His preference.
00:17:26.24\00:17:29.71
He would desire for us
to work this thing out,
00:17:29.74\00:17:32.75
but if this
thing keeps coming up,
00:17:32.78\00:17:35.18
if every time I'm
leaving now after the affair,
00:17:35.22\00:17:38.05
you're thinking that I'm
going to be with someone else.
00:17:38.09\00:17:41.82
If I get a text message
00:17:41.86\00:17:43.19
and you're
feeling a certain way,
00:17:43.22\00:17:44.56
if you don't
want to be around me,
00:17:44.59\00:17:47.00
if we've separated,
00:17:47.03\00:17:48.36
and that's not,
still not working,
00:17:48.40\00:17:50.03
we can't come back together.
00:17:50.07\00:17:51.50
If we've gone to the counseling,
00:17:51.53\00:17:52.87
if we prayed about this thing,
00:17:52.90\00:17:54.40
and it's just not a
healthy environment,
00:17:54.44\00:17:57.44
then that is when we
should go to the other options.
00:17:57.47\00:18:02.34
It's important
also, if I can just add
00:18:02.38\00:18:04.68
from the personal perspective,
00:18:04.71\00:18:06.28
when individuals find
out other individuals,
00:18:06.31\00:18:08.85
outside of the
relationship, find out about it.
00:18:08.88\00:18:12.12
Ultimately,
individuals are making decisions
00:18:12.15\00:18:14.06
not so much about how I feel
00:18:14.09\00:18:15.69
but how other people
are viewing me for staying.
00:18:15.72\00:18:18.69
So you will hear the lady say,
00:18:18.73\00:18:20.76
people looking
at me, I'm foolish
00:18:20.80\00:18:22.26
or the guy, I'm
foolish for staying with you.
00:18:22.30\00:18:24.77
I can go and be
with someone else.
00:18:24.80\00:18:26.67
And so really, the
reason why I'm saying this
00:18:26.70\00:18:29.74
is because other people are...
00:18:29.77\00:18:31.11
I feel that this is how
other people feel about me,
00:18:31.14\00:18:32.87
and this is where it's important
00:18:32.91\00:18:34.24
that our marriage
00:18:34.28\00:18:35.61
union is about us and God first,
00:18:35.64\00:18:38.18
and everybody else is secondary.
00:18:38.21\00:18:40.62
Me and my wife,
we talked about this
00:18:40.65\00:18:42.72
before we got married.
00:18:42.75\00:18:44.22
We said, listen,
there's no breaking up.
00:18:44.25\00:18:46.52
No breaking up.
00:18:46.55\00:18:47.92
No such thing as divorce
00:18:47.96\00:18:49.29
in regards to our
vocabulary of this thing.
00:18:49.32\00:18:51.19
And so what am I saying?
00:18:51.23\00:18:52.56
I'm not saying go out and cheat.
00:18:52.59\00:18:53.93
She's not
saying, go out and cheat.
00:18:53.96\00:18:55.30
Well, what we're
saying is whatever we face,
00:18:55.33\00:18:58.30
whatever we face, we're going
to work through this thing.
00:18:58.33\00:19:02.77
We're committing
before we get into this thing
00:19:02.80\00:19:05.11
that we're going to
work through this thing,
00:19:05.14\00:19:06.47
and that's important
00:19:06.51\00:19:08.64
because a lot of people,
00:19:08.68\00:19:10.18
I believe, have given up
00:19:10.21\00:19:12.71
and not even
fought for that thing.
00:19:12.75\00:19:14.58
Now there are times
when it's unhealthy,
00:19:14.62\00:19:16.45
this thing just isn't working,
00:19:16.48\00:19:18.05
you're still
doing the same thing,
00:19:18.09\00:19:19.69
even after we've
gone to counseling,
00:19:19.72\00:19:21.26
even after we've separated.
00:19:21.29\00:19:22.62
Yeah, you're going back to,
yeah, fare for tenth affair,
00:19:22.66\00:19:25.86
you're still
doing the same thing,
00:19:25.89\00:19:27.23
then we need to look
at some other options,
00:19:27.26\00:19:29.30
but let's exhaust
all of the possibilities
00:19:29.33\00:19:32.73
before we just give up.
00:19:32.77\00:19:34.10
Right. Right.
00:19:34.14\00:19:35.47
I would agree, I would
definitely agree with that.
00:19:35.50\00:19:38.41
My husband and I,
00:19:38.44\00:19:39.77
you know, said the same
thing before we got married.
00:19:39.81\00:19:43.24
We have people on
both sides of our family
00:19:43.28\00:19:47.28
that have had affairs
and divorces have happened,
00:19:47.32\00:19:50.39
have taken place
and things like that,
00:19:50.42\00:19:52.29
and we have seen the hurt,
00:19:52.32\00:19:54.22
and in many ways
experienced the hurt
00:19:54.26\00:19:56.06
that takes
place after an affair,
00:19:56.09\00:19:59.69
and so but we said,
of course, that's not...
00:19:59.73\00:20:03.87
In our dating stages...
00:20:03.90\00:20:05.83
In our dating stages,
00:20:05.87\00:20:07.87
we identified that's
not something that we do,
00:20:07.90\00:20:13.27
where we may have seen that
00:20:13.31\00:20:14.74
but that's not
something that we do.
00:20:14.78\00:20:18.01
Now, if it were to happen
00:20:18.05\00:20:20.28
because there's a reality that
people change, things happen...
00:20:20.32\00:20:24.79
You know, as we grow,
sometimes things that are not
00:20:24.82\00:20:31.13
inviting or wonderful,
00:20:31.16\00:20:34.16
there are things that grow
into us that are not positive.
00:20:34.20\00:20:37.70
So many times when
we're talking about growth,
00:20:37.73\00:20:39.57
we're talking
about positive growth,
00:20:39.60\00:20:41.70
but there's a reality that
I've come to terms with that
00:20:41.74\00:20:46.17
when you're
younger, you're so much...
00:20:46.21\00:20:48.04
You have your innocence.
00:20:48.08\00:20:50.21
But as you get older and you
experience harder situations,
00:20:50.25\00:20:54.78
then some of
those hard situations
00:20:54.82\00:20:57.09
become a part of you.
00:20:57.12\00:20:58.65
And so sometimes,
00:20:58.69\00:21:00.29
you may go into
a marriage and say,
00:21:00.32\00:21:02.66
this is something
that I would never do
00:21:02.69\00:21:04.69
because you don't
have any intention,
00:21:04.73\00:21:07.13
honestly, on doing that.
00:21:07.16\00:21:09.40
But then, something
may happen, God forbid,
00:21:09.43\00:21:13.23
but that something
that it's possible,
00:21:13.27\00:21:16.37
and so after the divorce,
I mean not after the divorce,
00:21:16.40\00:21:19.24
after the affair if
that were to happen,
00:21:19.27\00:21:22.31
then, I mean our
conversation has been,
00:21:22.34\00:21:28.28
if that were to take
place, I couldn't handle that.
00:21:28.32\00:21:32.89
And we said that, we hope
00:21:32.92\00:21:36.76
that God will
give us the strength
00:21:36.79\00:21:38.96
to get through it,
00:21:38.99\00:21:40.36
but we are both honest
with each other and said,
00:21:40.40\00:21:42.80
divorce is not something
that we play around with.
00:21:42.83\00:21:45.67
Divorce is not when you get
on my nerves, or you bother me,
00:21:45.70\00:21:48.84
or there's something
that's really, really serious
00:21:48.87\00:21:51.27
that is difficult
for me to live with
00:21:51.31\00:21:54.58
in you that doesn't...
00:21:54.61\00:21:55.94
I don't throw divorce out there,
00:21:55.98\00:21:58.01
but if it is an affair,
00:21:58.05\00:22:00.42
then you have to know that
00:22:00.45\00:22:02.22
that is something that I
will be thinking in my mind.
00:22:02.25\00:22:05.25
And if that's an
action that you take
00:22:05.29\00:22:11.29
then that's a conversation,
00:22:11.33\00:22:12.66
divorce is going
to be a conversation
00:22:12.69\00:22:14.23
that we may have to have.
00:22:14.26\00:22:16.23
But there, it does
take, in order to...
00:22:16.26\00:22:19.57
It's on the
opposite, or not the opposite,
00:22:19.60\00:22:22.00
within that conversation,
we, in our relationship,
00:22:22.04\00:22:26.68
before getting
into our relationship,
00:22:26.71\00:22:28.38
before getting
engaged, we had reconciliation,
00:22:28.41\00:22:32.55
we were friends, drama happened,
00:22:32.58\00:22:36.38
and then we had to
come together and reconcile.
00:22:36.42\00:22:39.42
And so I am
blessed to have experienced
00:22:39.45\00:22:45.29
what true
reconciliation looks like
00:22:45.33\00:22:47.63
because I think
that is God's ideal
00:22:47.66\00:22:50.30
that when he makes
room for the latter,
00:22:50.33\00:22:53.47
but the ideal is
when hardships come,
00:22:53.50\00:22:57.11
no matter what they are,
00:22:57.14\00:22:58.71
that both individuals
00:22:58.74\00:23:00.24
are willing to be
reconciled to each other
00:23:00.28\00:23:03.24
because Christ...
00:23:03.28\00:23:06.28
the symbol comes from salvation.
00:23:06.31\00:23:10.32
Christ can come and
try to be reconciled
00:23:10.35\00:23:13.56
and reconcile
Himself to the world,
00:23:13.59\00:23:15.36
right, to the
church, to the world,
00:23:15.39\00:23:17.53
but if I do not accept
that offer of reconciliation,
00:23:17.56\00:23:22.36
then it's non-existent
in our relationship,
00:23:22.40\00:23:26.27
and so the
relationship can be saved.
00:23:26.30\00:23:29.50
It can be saved, no
matter what happens.
00:23:29.54\00:23:33.07
All the things that you named,
00:23:33.11\00:23:34.44
those are some
difficult realities
00:23:34.48\00:23:38.21
that are present in the church
00:23:38.25\00:23:39.75
whether we like
to believe it or not,
00:23:39.78\00:23:41.88
whether it be affairs within
heterosexual relationships,
00:23:41.92\00:23:48.72
affairs within
homosexual relationships,
00:23:48.76\00:23:52.49
affairs with family members,
00:23:52.53\00:23:55.46
affairs with
animals, affairs with self.
00:23:55.50\00:24:01.44
Some people
identify masturbation
00:24:01.47\00:24:03.41
as affairs with self,
00:24:03.44\00:24:05.44
and so being able to
honestly ask the question,
00:24:05.47\00:24:10.28
what do we do in
our relationship,
00:24:10.31\00:24:13.31
and how do we live out
the gospel during these true,
00:24:13.35\00:24:18.39
honest, and
difficult realities of life?
00:24:18.42\00:24:23.26
How do we do that?
00:24:23.29\00:24:24.63
And do we take the
Christ-like perspective?
00:24:24.66\00:24:27.40
Or do we at least try
00:24:27.43\00:24:29.26
because we're
not perfect, right?
00:24:29.30\00:24:31.30
But we can try and pray
about that thing so that's...
00:24:31.33\00:24:36.34
I believe that is God's ideal.
00:24:36.37\00:24:38.34
Yeah, and I've seen
or trying to figure out,
00:24:38.37\00:24:40.88
okay, you choose to
stay in the marriage.
00:24:40.91\00:24:43.78
Or maybe you figured out
00:24:43.81\00:24:45.15
that this thing is
worth fighting for.
00:24:45.18\00:24:46.75
There are some certain factors,
00:24:46.78\00:24:48.28
maybe, you're willing to accept,
00:24:48.32\00:24:50.22
it was one time,
00:24:50.25\00:24:51.65
or whatever the rationale
is for the couple to say,
00:24:51.69\00:24:54.46
okay, we're gonna try.
00:24:54.49\00:24:55.89
We really love each other.
00:24:55.92\00:24:57.36
We're doing this
maybe for the children,
00:24:57.39\00:24:59.33
but more than for the children
00:24:59.36\00:25:00.86
because we truly
believe that it was just a slip.
00:25:00.90\00:25:03.73
I probably didn't put
the right bonding in place.
00:25:03.77\00:25:06.63
How do I fight for this thing,
00:25:06.67\00:25:10.81
not only going to
counseling and sitting down,
00:25:10.84\00:25:15.14
and really placing all
the issues on the table
00:25:15.18\00:25:17.68
because you need to
be completely honest.
00:25:17.71\00:25:19.61
I think, I feel,
Keith, that you're gonna
00:25:19.65\00:25:20.98
add something else?
00:25:21.02\00:25:22.35
Yeah, after you
get, dealt with that
00:25:22.38\00:25:24.19
but it's, what do
you do afterwards,
00:25:24.22\00:25:27.39
you say, I'm fighting for
this thing, what do you do?
00:25:27.42\00:25:30.59
It takes a lot of time.
00:25:30.63\00:25:34.56
It's not gonna
be tomorrow. Right.
00:25:34.60\00:25:36.20
May not be next year,
00:25:36.23\00:25:38.17
but what I've
counseled people to do
00:25:38.20\00:25:40.27
is to get back to
that point, start all over,
00:25:40.30\00:25:43.37
get back to dating
00:25:43.41\00:25:45.77
because there's
a variety of issues
00:25:45.81\00:25:47.91
that could be the cause.
00:25:47.94\00:25:49.28
Right. Obviously, right?
00:25:49.31\00:25:50.65
So talk about it
when you feel comfortable,
00:25:50.68\00:25:52.91
when the hurt is not as painful,
00:25:52.95\00:25:58.35
then you start talking about it,
00:25:58.39\00:25:59.72
and then you just
gradually get back to dating,
00:25:59.75\00:26:01.96
get back to loving each other,
get back to knowing each other,
00:26:01.99\00:26:04.39
and then build that trust.
00:26:04.43\00:26:06.90
We got to understand that
divorce was not God's idea.
00:26:06.93\00:26:11.50
He actually says
00:26:11.53\00:26:12.87
it was because of the
hardness of your heart
00:26:12.90\00:26:14.24
that He gave you this.
00:26:14.27\00:26:15.60
So once my heart has
been softened, right?
00:26:15.64\00:26:17.61
And I'm willing to now receive
and work through this thing.
00:26:17.64\00:26:21.08
I have to give
you a fair chance,
00:26:21.11\00:26:23.85
you have to give
me a fair chance,
00:26:23.88\00:26:25.21
we got to try to
rebuild this thing...
00:26:25.25\00:26:26.72
Right. Because it's possible.
00:26:26.75\00:26:28.08
I've seen a lot of
marriages that were on the brink
00:26:28.12\00:26:31.92
and are now, 20 years later,
they're still going strong.
00:26:31.95\00:26:35.69
But it took individual
saying, you know what?
00:26:35.72\00:26:37.73
I love you, I trust you,
00:26:37.76\00:26:39.29
and let's keep
moving through this thing,
00:26:39.33\00:26:42.03
and let's defy the odds
00:26:42.06\00:26:43.40
because society
tells us, listen,
00:26:43.43\00:26:45.27
somebody does something
you don't like, just divorce.
00:26:45.30\00:26:48.07
Simply just divorce.
00:26:48.10\00:26:49.64
I mean, some
people getting divorced
00:26:49.67\00:26:51.01
just for losing their jobs
00:26:51.04\00:26:52.37
or just anything, you know.
00:26:52.41\00:26:53.74
Yes. It's serious.
00:26:53.78\00:26:55.11
And when you
decide to stay married,
00:26:55.14\00:26:59.11
you have to decide
00:26:59.15\00:27:01.12
to stay married and be married.
00:27:01.15\00:27:05.82
So you can't say
you cheated on me,
00:27:05.85\00:27:09.22
so we're not having sex.
00:27:09.26\00:27:11.43
It was five years
ago, you cheated on me,
00:27:11.46\00:27:15.06
so I'm gonna keep
the kids away from you,
00:27:15.10\00:27:16.87
and even if you
choose to divorce,
00:27:16.90\00:27:20.44
you have to forgive the spouse.
00:27:20.47\00:27:22.30
Yes. That's important. Yeah.
00:27:22.34\00:27:23.67
Especially, if the
kids are still there,
00:27:23.71\00:27:25.04
you can't have the tension,
00:27:25.07\00:27:26.41
the friends, they
can't have that tension.
00:27:26.44\00:27:29.01
And even for yourself,
00:27:29.04\00:27:30.65
whoever you're
started dating that's new,
00:27:30.68\00:27:32.31
can't have that tension.
00:27:32.35\00:27:34.12
So as we're wrapping up,
00:27:34.15\00:27:35.62
we want you guys to keep
on having this conversation
00:27:35.65\00:27:38.05
about affairs.
00:27:38.09\00:27:39.82
What do you need to do
00:27:39.85\00:27:42.26
within your
relationship if it has happened?
00:27:42.29\00:27:45.03
Do you choose to
divorce or you choose to stay?
00:27:45.06\00:27:47.43
The Bible says in 1 Peter 4:8,
00:27:47.46\00:27:49.73
"Above all, love
each other deeply,
00:27:49.76\00:27:52.47
because love covers
a multitude of sins."
00:27:52.50\00:27:54.80
Yes.
00:27:54.84\00:27:56.17
So please remember
to make pure choices.
00:27:56.20\00:27:58.37