The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
00:00:01.36\00:00:03.43
Parents are
cautioned that some material
00:00:03.47\00:00:05.30
may be too candid
for younger children.
00:00:05.33\00:00:07.60
Hello, welcome to Pure Choices.
00:00:40.54\00:00:42.90
My name is
Brittany Hill-Morales,
00:00:42.94\00:00:44.27
and I'll be today's host.
00:00:44.31\00:00:45.81
Before we get into this
very important discussion
00:00:45.84\00:00:48.31
which is about
nurturing relationships,
00:00:48.34\00:00:50.65
we're going to pray.
00:00:50.68\00:00:52.45
Dear most heavenly Father,
00:00:52.48\00:00:54.42
dear Lord, I pray that
You'll be with us right now
00:00:54.45\00:00:55.95
in this moment that You
will be with the viewers
00:00:55.98\00:00:58.52
at home as well.
00:00:58.55\00:00:59.89
We love You and
we praise Your name,
00:00:59.92\00:01:01.26
in Jesus' name, amen.
00:01:01.29\00:01:03.06
Amen.
00:01:03.09\00:01:04.43
So over here on the couch
we have two wonderful guests.
00:01:04.46\00:01:07.10
We have Mrs.
Dajanae Anderson from Texas
00:01:07.13\00:01:09.66
and we also have
Pastor Keith Hackle from Iowa.
00:01:09.70\00:01:14.70
So our topic for
today, you're ready for it?
00:01:14.74\00:01:18.54
Nurturing relationships.
00:01:18.57\00:01:20.38
This is focusing on
the pre-engaged period.
00:01:20.41\00:01:24.15
After you probably
dated for a little bit
00:01:24.18\00:01:26.51
and you've solidified
and said, "You know what?
00:01:26.55\00:01:28.48
Let's start this relationship."
00:01:28.52\00:01:30.95
Some people say it's called,
00:01:30.99\00:01:32.32
"We're boyfriend
and girlfriend now."
00:01:32.35\00:01:34.52
And it goes with different
lengths of period of time.
00:01:34.56\00:01:37.09
It can be maybe a few months
00:01:37.13\00:01:39.06
before they're
officially engaged.
00:01:39.09\00:01:40.83
It could be a few years.
00:01:40.86\00:01:42.93
But despite the time frame,
00:01:42.96\00:01:44.90
how do you
nurture that relationship?
00:01:44.93\00:01:48.44
All of us are married here
00:01:48.47\00:01:49.80
so I know we went
through that process.
00:01:49.84\00:01:51.17
Right.
00:01:51.21\00:01:52.54
For me it was a few months
00:01:52.57\00:01:53.91
before we
officially were engaged.
00:01:53.94\00:01:55.28
And I guess...
00:01:55.31\00:01:56.64
What about you guys,
00:01:56.68\00:01:58.01
how long was it before you
guys were officially engaged?
00:01:58.05\00:01:59.45
Dajanae, to you from?
00:01:59.48\00:02:00.82
How long was it?
00:02:00.85\00:02:03.18
Two years, a year between
being boyfriend and girlfriend
00:02:03.22\00:02:09.42
to being engaged,
it was about two years.
00:02:09.46\00:02:14.43
Two years? Yes.
00:02:14.46\00:02:16.50
In our situation it was probably
00:02:16.53\00:02:18.07
more like five or six years,
00:02:18.10\00:02:20.84
just because me and my
wife met in high school.
00:02:20.87\00:02:23.00
So there was that
moment that I saw her
00:02:23.04\00:02:26.51
and I said, "This is
the one, this is the one."
00:02:26.54\00:02:30.08
But then we went separate ways
00:02:30.11\00:02:32.58
and we came back together
and probably after dating
00:02:32.61\00:02:35.45
officially maybe
another two or three years
00:02:35.48\00:02:39.95
before engagement period.
00:02:39.99\00:02:42.19
Yeah. That's true.
00:02:42.22\00:02:43.56
And that is a
reality for most people.
00:02:43.59\00:02:46.93
Some of them start
dating in high school
00:02:46.96\00:02:49.00
and they meet that connection
00:02:49.03\00:02:50.93
and it kind of
becomes a prolonged period
00:02:50.97\00:02:53.74
because people are
waiting longer to get married.
00:02:53.77\00:02:56.47
Maybe their mid 20s
00:02:56.50\00:02:57.84
and based on what
your career path might be,
00:02:57.87\00:03:00.24
it might be closer to 30
00:03:00.28\00:03:02.81
and it might even go
a little bit further.
00:03:02.84\00:03:04.31
So you're dating for
this long period of time
00:03:04.35\00:03:07.18
and hopefully not
engaging in sexual intercourse,
00:03:07.22\00:03:10.55
not doing anything
that's actually impure,
00:03:10.59\00:03:12.85
but still how do
you build a relationship
00:03:12.89\00:03:16.06
during that period
whether it's far as a few months
00:03:16.09\00:03:18.79
or you know,
five, six, ten years?
00:03:18.83\00:03:22.96
So what was your
experience, Keith, with that?
00:03:23.00\00:03:24.90
Well, for us it was
talking on the phone.
00:03:24.93\00:03:28.30
Having times where we
would be in each other's space
00:03:28.34\00:03:30.94
for prolong period of time.
00:03:30.97\00:03:32.31
Like I said we
were in high school,
00:03:32.34\00:03:33.84
so we saw each other
as classes were passing
00:03:33.88\00:03:36.85
and things like that,
00:03:36.88\00:03:38.21
but even post high
school it took some time
00:03:38.25\00:03:41.18
of just like I said
being in each other's space,
00:03:41.22\00:03:43.79
getting to know each other
for, if there's a football game
00:03:43.82\00:03:46.09
or something like that going on,
00:03:46.12\00:03:47.46
we may be in the same area
00:03:47.49\00:03:50.03
but we're not necessarily alone,
00:03:50.06\00:03:52.46
but it allows us to
interact with each other.
00:03:52.49\00:03:54.56
We were able to see
each other's friends.
00:03:54.60\00:03:57.50
There were times when
holidays would come up
00:03:57.53\00:03:59.33
and I would get an invitation
to come to her family's house
00:03:59.37\00:04:02.10
or vice versa so now
we're around the family.
00:04:02.14\00:04:04.57
And so we're building that
relationship to be able to say,
00:04:04.61\00:04:08.08
"Hey, could this go further?"
00:04:08.11\00:04:10.85
And those things are important
00:04:10.88\00:04:12.95
because you don't want
those surprises on the backend
00:04:12.98\00:04:15.35
after you've
already said, "I do,"
00:04:15.38\00:04:16.79
after you've
already got invested.
00:04:16.82\00:04:18.92
Then you found out,
00:04:18.95\00:04:20.29
"Oh, that's going to be
difficult being around family,"
00:04:20.32\00:04:22.49
because then that makes
the relationship difficult
00:04:22.52\00:04:24.63
as well.
00:04:24.66\00:04:26.59
I don't have a whole lot
to add to that to what he said
00:04:26.63\00:04:30.57
because with my husband and I,
00:04:30.60\00:04:33.00
that's what our relationship
looked like as well.
00:04:33.03\00:04:36.77
So we met at
Oakwood and we were friends
00:04:36.81\00:04:40.81
and but when we begin the,
00:04:40.84\00:04:43.18
"Okay, we're
officially in a relationship,"
00:04:43.21\00:04:46.51
some of that was at Oakwood
00:04:46.55\00:04:48.55
but then he
left to go to Andrews
00:04:48.58\00:04:50.95
and I was still in, at Oakwood,
00:04:50.99\00:04:53.96
saw a lot of the nurturing
of relationship took place
00:04:53.99\00:04:57.06
over the phone.
00:04:57.09\00:04:58.79
Or I would drive to Andrews
00:04:58.83\00:05:01.46
or he would drive down
to Oakwood for holidays.
00:05:01.50\00:05:06.23
I think he came
down for my birthday,
00:05:06.27\00:05:08.30
I went out for his birthday,
you know, things like that.
00:05:08.34\00:05:11.24
But or just, just because
00:05:11.27\00:05:13.41
so in terms of maintaining
the relationship builder
00:05:13.44\00:05:17.31
or some things that we did
00:05:17.35\00:05:18.81
which are similar to
hanging out in groups.
00:05:18.85\00:05:22.65
When we go, we go over
there, he has a roommate,
00:05:22.68\00:05:25.25
I had roommates,
we're all hanging out
00:05:25.29\00:05:27.39
in the front room talking,
00:05:27.42\00:05:28.76
or we're leaving
to go out to eat,
00:05:28.79\00:05:31.53
or go to the
beach or whatever it is.
00:05:31.56\00:05:34.06
So that's similar, very
similar to Keith's experience.
00:05:34.10\00:05:38.20
Yeah, I'm hearing you
maintaining boundaries...
00:05:38.23\00:05:40.00
Yes.
00:05:40.04\00:05:41.37
During that
period, trying to make sure
00:05:41.40\00:05:43.81
you have a certain timeframe.
00:05:43.84\00:05:45.17
I know for us it had to
be after a certain hour,
00:05:45.21\00:05:48.61
you can't be at my
home anymore, right?
00:05:48.64\00:05:50.38
Yes, yes, yes. Right. Right.
00:05:50.41\00:05:51.95
Certain times, like you need
to call before you come over,
00:05:51.98\00:05:55.68
or different things.
00:05:55.72\00:05:57.05
We can't hug for too
long, we can't be cuddling,
00:05:57.09\00:05:59.49
kind of have to sit on
that side of the couch,
00:05:59.52\00:06:01.36
I sit on this side of the
couch if you're going to be here
00:06:01.39\00:06:03.79
just so we could focus
on truly knowing each other
00:06:03.83\00:06:08.26
during that period of time.
00:06:08.30\00:06:10.57
And I think that's a...
00:06:10.60\00:06:11.93
I think that's very,
very, very important.
00:06:11.97\00:06:14.57
And being completely honest
and raw and open, there is a...
00:06:14.60\00:06:19.94
It takes both people
to set those boundaries
00:06:19.97\00:06:24.31
because there may
be times and there was,
00:06:24.35\00:06:26.65
there were times when I
would be at his apartment,
00:06:26.68\00:06:29.22
he has a roommate and
we're out on the couch
00:06:29.25\00:06:31.52
and I'm like, "Oh, I'm
just going to go to sleep
00:06:31.55\00:06:32.92
on the couch and then, you know,
00:06:32.95\00:06:34.72
you can go to sleep in your room
00:06:34.76\00:06:36.32
and you can take me
back in the morning."
00:06:36.36\00:06:37.89
And he firmly like,
"No, I'm taking you home.
00:06:37.93\00:06:41.86
I'm taking you home.
00:06:41.90\00:06:44.33
Daj, we're not doing that."
00:06:44.37\00:06:45.70
I'm like, "What,
you're going to be in your own
00:06:45.73\00:06:47.07
and I'm going to
be on the couch..."
00:06:47.10\00:06:48.44
He's like, "No, no, no.
00:06:48.47\00:06:49.80
I'm taking you home,"
and you know, vice versa.
00:06:49.84\00:06:52.74
So there's times
when you have to look
00:06:52.77\00:06:56.08
at the big picture of
your relationship and your...
00:06:56.11\00:07:00.65
You want to be in the
relationship long term,
00:07:00.68\00:07:02.72
you wanted to be something
00:07:02.75\00:07:04.09
that's acceptable in
the sight of the Lord.
00:07:04.12\00:07:06.22
And so you say, "In
the grand scheme of things,
00:07:06.25\00:07:09.72
I'm going to put
aside how I feel,
00:07:09.76\00:07:12.46
what my emotions are,
not that they're unimportant
00:07:12.49\00:07:15.36
but they're not going to
drive me to make a big mistake
00:07:15.40\00:07:19.43
that then makes
00:07:19.47\00:07:20.80
the relationship
something toxic."
00:07:20.84\00:07:22.74
So definitely it's
taken, it takes two though
00:07:22.77\00:07:26.37
because sometimes
one person may be weak
00:07:26.41\00:07:28.04
and the other
person has to be strong
00:07:28.08\00:07:30.25
and then in another situation,
00:07:30.28\00:07:31.91
you know, the roles
may reverse, so definitely.
00:07:31.95\00:07:36.25
And you begin to see the...
00:07:36.28\00:07:37.65
If there's an individual
00:07:37.69\00:07:39.62
and Paul talks about
this war in the flesh
00:07:39.65\00:07:42.06
that we have from time to time,
and if there's an individual
00:07:42.09\00:07:45.19
who is stronger when
another person is weak,
00:07:45.23\00:07:47.70
that's important, right?
00:07:47.73\00:07:49.06
And so you see like this
person really cares about me,
00:07:49.10\00:07:51.47
they could have
taken advantage of me
00:07:51.50\00:07:53.20
when I was at my weakest point,
00:07:53.23\00:07:54.57
but they were willing to
be a stand up person and say,
00:07:54.60\00:07:57.31
"Listen, we're going
to stand on principle,
00:07:57.34\00:07:58.71
we're going to stand on
what God expects for us."
00:07:58.74\00:08:00.91
And then you're able
to see, "You know what?
00:08:00.94\00:08:02.81
This maybe someone
00:08:02.84\00:08:04.51
that I can spend
the rest of my life with
00:08:04.55\00:08:05.98
because if they have that
type of care for me now..."
00:08:06.01\00:08:08.58
Right. Right?
00:08:08.62\00:08:09.95
"When we're just
boyfriend and girlfriend,
00:08:09.98\00:08:11.95
then I know when we
take it to the next level
00:08:11.99\00:08:14.09
that they're also going
to show this type of care."
00:08:14.12\00:08:17.13
It was, my wife and I,
00:08:17.16\00:08:19.09
one thing that
we always talk about
00:08:19.13\00:08:20.46
that we remember
early on we would just...
00:08:20.50\00:08:22.53
I would pull up to her house
and we would sit out in the car
00:08:22.56\00:08:25.10
and we would just talk
for hours, just talk for hours
00:08:25.13\00:08:28.50
and she talked
about how that meant a lot
00:08:28.54\00:08:30.71
because I'm saying, "Hey, we're
just going to talk in the car,
00:08:30.74\00:08:33.78
just spend time,
listen to the radio,"
00:08:33.81\00:08:37.11
song might come on that we
both like and we just hear,
00:08:37.15\00:08:39.31
we're just talking
and that's important,
00:08:39.35\00:08:41.45
the talking
component is important.
00:08:41.48\00:08:43.89
So I would tell
individuals not to shy away
00:08:43.92\00:08:46.69
from those long
conversations on the phone.
00:08:46.72\00:08:48.59
One thing I
remember is those times
00:08:48.62\00:08:49.96
when we've been on the phone
00:08:49.99\00:08:51.33
till 2, 3 o'clock in the morning
00:08:51.36\00:08:52.69
and I'm saying, "You hang up,"
00:08:52.73\00:08:54.06
and she's like,
"No, you hang up."
00:08:54.10\00:08:55.43
That's cute.
00:08:55.46\00:08:56.80
I know that she's falling asleep
00:08:56.83\00:08:58.17
and I'm like,
"Are you sleeping?"
00:08:58.20\00:08:59.53
She wakes, "No,
I'm not sleeping."
00:08:59.57\00:09:00.90
She would ask me the same.
00:09:00.94\00:09:02.27
But those things are important
00:09:02.30\00:09:03.64
because now
we're vision casting,
00:09:03.67\00:09:05.01
we're imagining what
things are going to be like
00:09:05.04\00:09:06.37
and we're really
getting to know each other.
00:09:06.41\00:09:07.74
If you have a person who
can never take your phone call,
00:09:07.78\00:09:09.11
can never talk to you
for more than ten minutes
00:09:09.14\00:09:11.61
because their life is so busy,
00:09:11.65\00:09:13.72
then when you take
it to the next level
00:09:13.75\00:09:16.72
life is going to
still be too busy...
00:09:16.75\00:09:18.39
Right. And it's
not going to work out.
00:09:18.42\00:09:19.99
So it's important. Right, right.
00:09:20.02\00:09:21.62
So you want someone
00:09:21.66\00:09:22.99
who makes your
relationship a priority...
00:09:23.02\00:09:24.36
Yes.
00:09:24.39\00:09:25.73
Because if it's
not a priority now...
00:09:25.76\00:09:27.10
Yes.
00:09:27.13\00:09:28.46
How will it be a priority
when there's kids on the table.
00:09:28.50\00:09:29.83
Yes. Right.
00:09:29.86\00:09:31.20
There is work schedules,
00:09:31.23\00:09:32.57
there's all
this different stuff.
00:09:32.60\00:09:33.94
And what I'm also hearing
is we all met our spouses
00:09:33.97\00:09:35.97
at different parts of our lives.
00:09:36.00\00:09:38.11
For Keith, it was
during high school, Dajanae,
00:09:38.14\00:09:40.58
that was during your undergrad,
00:09:40.61\00:09:42.51
for me I met my
husband in graduate school.
00:09:42.54\00:09:44.41
Yeah.
00:09:44.45\00:09:45.78
And no matter the level,
00:09:45.81\00:09:47.52
you have had a
little bit more freedom
00:09:47.55\00:09:49.32
but you have that...
00:09:49.35\00:09:50.69
With the freedom is a
high level of responsibility.
00:09:50.72\00:09:52.89
Yes. And trying to
maintain boundaries.
00:09:52.92\00:09:56.49
Another element is
meeting the family,
00:09:56.52\00:09:58.23
that's another thing
00:09:58.26\00:09:59.59
that happens during
the pre-engagement process.
00:09:59.63\00:10:03.37
Yes, yes, yes, definitely.
00:10:03.40\00:10:05.43
That is very, very important.
00:10:05.47\00:10:08.24
Because the reality, when
we went through our pre...
00:10:08.27\00:10:12.47
We went through pre-engagement
counseling with the Frasers
00:10:12.51\00:10:17.11
at Oakwood in
Alabama A&M and they...
00:10:17.15\00:10:23.08
Meeting the family, there was...
00:10:23.12\00:10:24.79
There's an understanding
that when you marry someone,
00:10:24.82\00:10:27.69
you're marrying the
issues of their family as well.
00:10:27.72\00:10:31.09
Yes.
00:10:31.13\00:10:32.46
So even if I am distant from,
00:10:32.49\00:10:35.63
look by location I'm
distant from my family
00:10:35.66\00:10:38.80
or even if I appose some things
00:10:38.83\00:10:42.10
that happen within my family,
00:10:42.14\00:10:43.97
I'm still going
to bring those things
00:10:44.01\00:10:46.27
into my marriage relationship.
00:10:46.31\00:10:48.24
Some of those things may
be positive family values,
00:10:48.28\00:10:51.95
things like
honesty, things like order,
00:10:51.98\00:10:55.48
you know, there
are positive things
00:10:55.52\00:10:57.15
as well as maybe
some negative things.
00:10:57.19\00:10:59.15
And so one thing that
we went over is the things
00:10:59.19\00:11:03.53
that we talk about, we say,
00:11:03.56\00:11:05.09
oh, my mom, or my
dad, or my brother,
00:11:05.13\00:11:07.36
or my sister, or my grandparents
00:11:07.40\00:11:09.06
whatever may be aunt, uncle
00:11:09.10\00:11:11.73
and you're complaining about it,
00:11:11.77\00:11:13.34
don't think that you're...
00:11:13.37\00:11:15.77
The person that you're
in a relationship with,
00:11:15.80\00:11:18.37
the person that you're
thinking about getting engaged
00:11:18.41\00:11:20.98
to are not...
00:11:21.01\00:11:22.34
That they don't
hold some of those things
00:11:22.38\00:11:24.05
that bother them
about their family.
00:11:24.08\00:11:27.18
And so meeting the family
00:11:27.22\00:11:28.88
definitely gives you the picture
00:11:28.92\00:11:31.29
of who this
person is holistically.
00:11:31.32\00:11:34.52
You start to, you start to
see, oh, that's why I like,
00:11:34.56\00:11:37.63
my husband he's
funny, he's funny,
00:11:37.66\00:11:41.06
he's a jokester especially
00:11:41.10\00:11:43.26
when we're around a
lot of people, he's silly.
00:11:43.30\00:11:46.13
And when I met his mom,
his mom is the exact same way,
00:11:46.17\00:11:50.91
his older brother is
a clown like so silly.
00:11:50.94\00:11:54.74
And so when you take...
00:11:54.78\00:11:56.81
He makes so much more sense
to me when I met his family.
00:11:56.85\00:12:00.82
So definitely I
would agree with that.
00:12:00.85\00:12:03.85
And then you have to
also consider holidays,
00:12:03.89\00:12:07.49
these are going to be people
00:12:07.52\00:12:08.86
I'm around for
the holidays and...
00:12:08.89\00:12:10.26
Your favorite time of
the year. Yes, I know.
00:12:10.29\00:12:12.53
And so imagine, you know,
when Thanksgiving is coming,
00:12:12.56\00:12:15.36
you know, when
these holidays are coming,
00:12:15.40\00:12:17.20
and so if you don't
like being around the family,
00:12:17.23\00:12:19.67
you're dreading now.
00:12:19.70\00:12:21.20
This time that's supposed
to be a joyous experience,
00:12:21.24\00:12:23.47
and I was talking
to my son about this
00:12:23.51\00:12:25.67
as he's in a relationship
00:12:25.71\00:12:27.84
and he's trying to
say my relationship,
00:12:27.88\00:12:30.18
friendship, friendship,
00:12:30.21\00:12:32.85
but as he's going
through this process,
00:12:32.88\00:12:35.38
I'm like, "Listen,
man, you want to make sure
00:12:35.42\00:12:37.49
there are certain things
that we do in the family, right?
00:12:37.52\00:12:39.45
So we play games,
we're big on game nights
00:12:39.49\00:12:41.62
and things like that.
00:12:41.66\00:12:42.99
And so, if
you're in a relationship
00:12:43.02\00:12:45.23
or friendship with someone
00:12:45.26\00:12:46.66
that your sister doesn't like
or this person doesn't like,
00:12:46.70\00:12:49.16
your mother or they
don't like your dad,
00:12:49.20\00:12:50.83
then it makes it
difficult for you to invite them
00:12:50.87\00:12:52.93
over to the house, right?
00:12:52.97\00:12:54.57
And so now you're deciding
and this is friendship stage,
00:12:54.60\00:12:58.17
so imagine at marriage stage,
00:12:58.21\00:12:59.61
if you can't get
along with these people,
00:12:59.64\00:13:02.08
it's going to be very
difficult for you to want to be
00:13:02.11\00:13:05.11
around them later."
00:13:05.15\00:13:06.48
And so now we're
having this conversation
00:13:06.51\00:13:08.08
when we're talking
about marriage now.
00:13:08.12\00:13:10.92
We're having this conversation
of well maybe for this holiday
00:13:10.95\00:13:13.66
I don't want to go to a
family or you go and I'll stay
00:13:13.69\00:13:16.12
or I'll go see my...
00:13:16.16\00:13:17.49
And so now, you're
seeing this division begin
00:13:17.53\00:13:20.36
to form over something
00:13:20.40\00:13:21.83
that could have been
checked out even before.
00:13:21.86\00:13:24.53
You said I do and
went to the next step.
00:13:24.57\00:13:26.47
Right.
00:13:26.50\00:13:27.84
And that is a
question to ask for,
00:13:27.87\00:13:29.50
during this nurturing
part of your relationship.
00:13:29.54\00:13:33.04
Who should be involved
in helping you determine
00:13:33.07\00:13:36.48
that I should go further,
that we should get engaged
00:13:36.51\00:13:39.18
that we should get married
00:13:39.21\00:13:40.98
because what if
your family members
00:13:41.02\00:13:42.98
who are causing this
tension are not healthy
00:13:43.02\00:13:47.06
and what they're
trying to prevent
00:13:47.09\00:13:49.39
is actually
something that's for the best.
00:13:49.42\00:13:52.49
So who should get involved
in this whole planning process?
00:13:52.53\00:13:55.30
Who should I ask
if I was not married?
00:13:55.33\00:13:58.33
Well, that's tough.
Go ahead, you can go.
00:13:58.37\00:14:00.24
Yes, I think we were both about
to say the same thing that is
00:14:00.27\00:14:04.54
that there's not
a one size fits all.
00:14:04.57\00:14:06.68
I would say there's
not a one size fits all
00:14:06.71\00:14:09.28
because there are some families
00:14:09.31\00:14:12.51
that know how to love
their child or love their,
00:14:12.55\00:14:17.95
whatever it is, love you.
00:14:17.99\00:14:19.89
So my family
knows how to love me
00:14:19.92\00:14:22.89
but may not know how
to tell me that I'm wrong
00:14:22.92\00:14:27.60
or tell me that maybe my
family is so attached to me
00:14:27.63\00:14:32.23
that they don't
want me to get married
00:14:32.27\00:14:33.84
because they want me
to stay in the family,
00:14:33.87\00:14:35.60
and getting married may
mean going somewhere else.
00:14:35.64\00:14:38.37
Or maybe my
family is more realistic
00:14:38.41\00:14:42.84
and able to process,
00:14:42.88\00:14:44.55
"Okay, this is a natural part
00:14:44.58\00:14:46.61
and so me looking at
this person is to make sure
00:14:46.65\00:14:51.49
that they will take
care of my loved one,"
00:14:51.52\00:14:55.06
i.e. me, i.e. you, i.e. Keith.
00:14:55.09\00:14:57.69
But though the
reality is that we do not
00:14:57.73\00:15:00.56
or we don't have
perfect families.
00:15:00.60\00:15:03.20
And so the...
00:15:03.23\00:15:04.57
There is...
00:15:04.60\00:15:05.93
That's a difficult
question, I know for myself,
00:15:05.97\00:15:10.61
I was not sure
00:15:10.64\00:15:12.77
just because of how
my family, my family is.
00:15:12.81\00:15:18.28
I was not sure how
they will receive Ephraim
00:15:18.31\00:15:21.48
before we got engaged,
00:15:21.52\00:15:23.28
and so there I prepare him,
like, This is what my family.
00:15:23.32\00:15:28.49
Okay, your family is like this,
00:15:28.52\00:15:29.86
well, my family is like this..."
00:15:29.89\00:15:31.49
Kind of thing, so
definitely prepared him
00:15:31.53\00:15:35.36
before he met them.
00:15:35.40\00:15:36.83
And but for, you know,
something better happened
00:15:36.87\00:15:42.37
than what it
was that I expected.
00:15:42.40\00:15:44.44
And so I was definitely
blessed by that reality.
00:15:44.47\00:15:49.24
My father did give his blessing
for even to propose, my mother,
00:15:49.28\00:15:55.75
you know, was
posting all on Facebook
00:15:55.78\00:15:58.19
about how great of a man Ephraim
00:15:58.22\00:16:00.96
was after meeting
him, you know, only twice.
00:16:00.99\00:16:03.53
So I was really blessed by that
because that was the first time
00:16:03.56\00:16:06.73
that my parents had
ever accepted anybody
00:16:06.76\00:16:08.93
that I was interested in.
00:16:08.96\00:16:12.00
And so that was
definitely a blessing,
00:16:12.03\00:16:14.34
but I was prepared
for the opposite reality.
00:16:14.37\00:16:18.77
I was prepared
for the possibility
00:16:18.81\00:16:21.31
that if Ephraim
wouldn't be received
00:16:21.34\00:16:22.88
and it wouldn't have anything
to do with him necessarily
00:16:22.91\00:16:26.35
but more so of just
my family structure.
00:16:26.38\00:16:29.92
That's a good point and I...
00:16:29.95\00:16:33.19
For lack of a better phrase,
00:16:33.22\00:16:34.82
I will say consider all counsel,
00:16:34.86\00:16:37.43
but you don't necessarily
have to take all counsel.
00:16:37.46\00:16:39.29
Yes, yes, yes.
00:16:39.33\00:16:40.66
So when I was dating my wife,
00:16:40.70\00:16:43.30
the life that I had didn't
necessarily point to pastor
00:16:43.33\00:16:48.14
in the future, right?
00:16:48.17\00:16:49.50
So her mother was
speaking to her of some concerns
00:16:49.54\00:16:52.74
that she had of some
things that she had experienced.
00:16:52.77\00:16:56.71
And also there are
ladies who come from households
00:16:56.75\00:17:00.22
where there's all
single ladies, right?
00:17:00.25\00:17:02.42
So they've been
burned, they've been broken,
00:17:02.45\00:17:05.02
they've gone
through these experiences,
00:17:05.05\00:17:07.06
so some young
ladies are raised in houses
00:17:07.09\00:17:09.99
from what I understand
where every guy is a bad guy,
00:17:10.03\00:17:12.06
right?
00:17:12.09\00:17:13.43
I was raised in that household.
00:17:13.46\00:17:14.80
So that makes it
difficult, right?
00:17:14.83\00:17:16.97
And so even for guys, some guys
could be raised in households
00:17:17.00\00:17:22.77
where they're
taught to only expect
00:17:22.80\00:17:25.57
certain things from women.
00:17:25.61\00:17:26.94
So you can look at your
scope, consider the individuals
00:17:26.98\00:17:31.01
that you're
receiving that counsel from
00:17:31.05\00:17:32.65
but also continue to
build that relationship, right,
00:17:32.68\00:17:35.52
because
everybody is not the same.
00:17:35.55\00:17:37.22
It's possible that this person
may have these characteristics,
00:17:37.25\00:17:40.76
these traits and it's possible
for God to work with them
00:17:40.79\00:17:44.56
to the point where
now looking down the line,
00:17:44.59\00:17:48.53
early on my mother-in-law was,
00:17:48.56\00:17:50.33
she wasn't the
biggest fan of mine
00:17:50.37\00:17:52.37
but now, I mean
we love each other,
00:17:52.40\00:17:54.40
therefore we're
very, very good friends
00:17:54.44\00:17:56.34
but that takes time
and that takes a process
00:17:56.37\00:17:59.24
and that takes you
saying, you know what?
00:17:59.27\00:18:00.78
I'm going to get
to know this person,
00:18:00.81\00:18:03.48
but you have to be real
with yourself too and say,
00:18:03.51\00:18:05.35
"You know what?
00:18:05.38\00:18:06.72
There may be some
things about this individual
00:18:06.75\00:18:08.92
even though I like them
00:18:08.95\00:18:10.59
that they could be
deal breakers," right?
00:18:10.62\00:18:13.86
And you have to be
serious enough about this thing
00:18:13.89\00:18:17.03
to be able to
say, "You know what?
00:18:17.06\00:18:18.39
Even though I like you,
00:18:18.43\00:18:19.76
even though we
have fun together,
00:18:19.79\00:18:21.13
maybe it's best
that we be friends
00:18:21.16\00:18:22.50
instead of going
to the next step."
00:18:22.53\00:18:25.10
So just consider all counsel.
00:18:25.13\00:18:27.97
Individuals that
have gone before us
00:18:28.00\00:18:29.70
have a certain
experience and wisdom
00:18:29.74\00:18:31.51
that we should
definitely consider,
00:18:31.54\00:18:34.11
but that doesn't mean that
we have to implement everything
00:18:34.14\00:18:37.05
that everybody tells us.
00:18:37.08\00:18:38.41
Right.
00:18:38.45\00:18:39.78
And I wouldn't, I
don't think any of us
00:18:39.81\00:18:42.85
are saying that you
should be rebellious, right?
00:18:42.88\00:18:46.72
That's definitely not
the point that we're making
00:18:46.76\00:18:49.42
because sometimes the
people around us see things
00:18:49.46\00:18:52.49
that we can't see.
00:18:52.53\00:18:53.96
Because we're too
much in love bite.
00:18:54.00\00:18:55.33
Because we're in
love, we're infatuated...
00:18:55.36\00:18:58.83
It's perfect.
00:18:58.87\00:19:00.20
Yes, right or she's perfect
and that's not necessarily,
00:19:00.24\00:19:03.61
you know, but that's not,
it's not necessarily the case.
00:19:03.64\00:19:06.94
And so there's definitely wisdom
00:19:06.98\00:19:09.24
like what you're
saying in counsel,
00:19:09.28\00:19:11.48
there is not always...
00:19:11.51\00:19:12.91
You don't always receive
because there are situations,
00:19:12.95\00:19:15.88
and I think I'm
just kind of defining
00:19:15.92\00:19:18.45
in my own way something
that you had already said.
00:19:18.49\00:19:20.76
People are sometimes speaking
from their own experience
00:19:20.79\00:19:25.06
and that can be a good thing
and that can be a bad thing.
00:19:25.09\00:19:29.06
Many times if
someone is speaking
00:19:29.10\00:19:31.00
from their experience
without fully considering
00:19:31.03\00:19:33.64
who you are as a person
00:19:33.67\00:19:35.37
and who this other person
is in relationship to you,
00:19:35.40\00:19:38.27
then it's very dangerous.
00:19:38.31\00:19:39.77
Very, very, very dangerous
00:19:39.81\00:19:41.41
because just
because you were hurt
00:19:41.44\00:19:43.21
and you were
broken does not mean that
00:19:43.24\00:19:45.41
that's going to happen
between me and my husband
00:19:45.45\00:19:50.32
or you and your wife,
00:19:50.35\00:19:52.15
you know, for the
man that is dealing,
00:19:52.19\00:19:54.69
that's not or you know,
00:19:54.72\00:19:56.06
the boyfriend or
girlfriend or fiancé.
00:19:56.09\00:19:58.79
And sometimes people
00:19:58.83\00:20:00.16
are speaking out
of their brokenness
00:20:00.20\00:20:01.80
and they have not yet healed,
00:20:01.83\00:20:03.40
and so any
relationship possibility
00:20:03.43\00:20:05.50
that they see is
red flag, red flag
00:20:05.53\00:20:08.40
because they still have wounds
00:20:08.44\00:20:09.77
that they haven't
addressed properly.
00:20:09.80\00:20:11.37
And that goes into
another question of I'm scared,
00:20:11.41\00:20:15.71
I don't want to progress
into a relationship not knowing
00:20:15.74\00:20:19.88
if we are going to get engaged,
if we are going to get married.
00:20:19.91\00:20:23.89
Maybe the person might say,
00:20:23.92\00:20:25.59
I've already dated once or twice
00:20:25.62\00:20:27.62
before we were
going to deposit it
00:20:27.66\00:20:29.82
was two, three years
to ask to do it again.
00:20:29.86\00:20:32.49
How do I know it's worth it
00:20:32.53\00:20:33.86
or hearing experience of others,
00:20:33.90\00:20:37.07
do I take the risk?
00:20:37.10\00:20:40.20
What do you say,
do I take the risk?
00:20:40.24\00:20:41.57
Should I push forward and
even attempt at this thing?
00:20:41.60\00:20:46.51
You're going to say something.
00:20:46.54\00:20:47.88
I will say yes, but
just be careful in regards
00:20:47.91\00:20:51.95
to how far you
allow things to go.
00:20:51.98\00:20:56.15
You'd never want to go
into a new relationship
00:20:56.18\00:21:00.46
carrying old
baggage with you, right?
00:21:00.49\00:21:02.69
So you have these expectations,
00:21:02.72\00:21:04.59
you have these
previous experiences
00:21:04.63\00:21:06.23
and so the one moment
that individual does something,
00:21:06.26\00:21:08.76
you go, "Here we
go again," right?
00:21:08.80\00:21:11.03
But at the same time we
must enter into these things
00:21:11.07\00:21:14.34
or individuals must
enter into these relationships
00:21:14.37\00:21:17.14
cautiously understanding that,
"Hey listen, this is my limit,
00:21:17.17\00:21:21.78
this is where I'm
going with this thing."
00:21:21.81\00:21:24.25
But also be free to allow for...
00:21:24.28\00:21:26.31
To build
relationship with individuals.
00:21:26.35\00:21:29.35
It's a really tough
balance but I wouldn't say that
00:21:29.38\00:21:33.56
if you've had
three bad relationships
00:21:33.59\00:21:36.46
then what God is saying is that
00:21:36.49\00:21:38.03
you should be single
for the rest your life.
00:21:38.06\00:21:39.79
Right. That's not,
that's not always the case.
00:21:39.83\00:21:41.73
Some people do have
the gift of singleness
00:21:41.76\00:21:45.37
but not everybody has that gift.
00:21:45.40\00:21:46.74
Right.
00:21:46.77\00:21:48.10
So we just need to be cautious
00:21:48.14\00:21:50.51
and we need to start
every relationship coming in
00:21:50.54\00:21:53.68
and have, so you learn from
your previous relationships,
00:21:53.71\00:21:55.88
you learn how to
have conversations,
00:21:55.91\00:21:58.08
how to have communication,
00:21:58.11\00:21:59.45
how to set
boundaries and things like that.
00:21:59.48\00:22:00.85
But also allow room
for that thing to grow
00:22:00.88\00:22:04.25
because if you don't,
then you never go further
00:22:04.29\00:22:07.16
than the level of
your previous relationship
00:22:07.19\00:22:10.36
and that makes it difficult.
00:22:10.39\00:22:11.73
Yeah, I like
what you were saying,
00:22:11.76\00:22:13.09
you have to evaluate the fear.
00:22:13.13\00:22:15.96
If you're looking at this person
00:22:16.00\00:22:17.80
and you're automatically fearful
00:22:17.83\00:22:19.23
of being in
relationship with them
00:22:19.27\00:22:21.00
determine what that source is.
00:22:21.04\00:22:22.77
Is it because this person
is actually no good for you,
00:22:22.80\00:22:25.61
you probably like them
for reasons that are not pure,
00:22:25.64\00:22:29.04
you know, don't go
into that relationship.
00:22:29.08\00:22:31.25
But if the fear
is you're hearing
00:22:31.28\00:22:33.21
maybe the mother's
voice or you remember
00:22:33.25\00:22:35.38
what daddy did
or stuff like that
00:22:35.42\00:22:37.42
and that's what fearful for you
or what happened to your sister
00:22:37.45\00:22:40.39
or your brother,
00:22:40.42\00:22:41.86
then you need to probably
seek some help for that...
00:22:41.89\00:22:43.73
Right.
00:22:43.76\00:22:45.09
Because you
don't want to be hinder
00:22:45.13\00:22:46.59
and you also don't want
to approach your relationship
00:22:46.63\00:22:49.13
where this person
is giving their all
00:22:49.16\00:22:51.70
and you're just a huge wall
00:22:51.73\00:22:53.90
that they just
cannot break through,
00:22:53.94\00:22:56.64
and then they're broken
00:22:56.67\00:22:58.01
because you
didn't really give them
00:22:58.04\00:22:59.37
an opportunity or a chance...
00:22:59.41\00:23:01.14
Right.
00:23:01.18\00:23:02.51
And that's
important for nurturing
00:23:02.54\00:23:04.18
that relationship,
give them an opportunity,
00:23:04.21\00:23:06.18
give a person a
chance to show you
00:23:06.21\00:23:08.68
what's in their heart.
00:23:08.72\00:23:10.99
But also we also
want people to be like,
00:23:11.02\00:23:12.79
"Okay, I'm just going to jump
from one issue to another..."
00:23:12.82\00:23:14.42
Right, right, right.
00:23:14.46\00:23:15.79
No, you need to
sit down, you're like,
00:23:15.82\00:23:17.16
"Okay, who are
you on a basic level?"
00:23:17.19\00:23:21.93
Right.
00:23:21.96\00:23:23.53
"What do you bring to the table?
00:23:23.57\00:23:24.90
Are you serious
about this?" Right.
00:23:24.93\00:23:27.24
Because I don't want to infest,
00:23:27.27\00:23:28.77
meet your family all
this different stuff,
00:23:28.80\00:23:30.91
getting engaged
and then I find that
00:23:30.94\00:23:33.14
you're completely something else
00:23:33.17\00:23:34.84
and I'm trying to
break off this engagement.
00:23:34.88\00:23:36.34
Right.
00:23:36.38\00:23:37.71
And in our culture it's a lot...
00:23:37.75\00:23:39.08
It's very hard after you've
already put it, posted on...
00:23:39.11\00:23:41.75
It's Facebook
official, Instagram official...
00:23:41.78\00:23:43.95
Yeah.
00:23:43.99\00:23:45.32
Twitter official...
00:23:45.35\00:23:46.69
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:46.72\00:23:48.06
Invitations are sent out,
00:23:48.09\00:23:49.42
you already bought a
dress for a thousand dollars
00:23:49.46\00:23:50.93
to try to break off
this engagement right now
00:23:50.96\00:23:54.23
even though I'm
seeing this huge red flag
00:23:54.26\00:23:56.20
that I wish you
showed me before.
00:23:56.23\00:23:58.87
That, that's
definitely why I would advice
00:23:58.90\00:24:00.70
pre-engagement
counseling, pre-engagement,
00:24:00.74\00:24:03.81
I know it's not
as popular today,
00:24:03.84\00:24:06.98
you know, we have mostly...
00:24:07.01\00:24:08.51
What's most popular
is marriage counseling,
00:24:08.54\00:24:12.18
not even premarital
counseling is as prevalent
00:24:12.21\00:24:15.48
as marriage counseling
00:24:15.52\00:24:17.49
because people go through
00:24:17.52\00:24:19.39
even though they
see the red flags,
00:24:19.42\00:24:21.62
we've gotten engaged now
00:24:21.66\00:24:22.99
we've invested
all of this money,
00:24:23.02\00:24:24.66
all these resources,
00:24:24.69\00:24:26.03
our communities are invested
00:24:26.06\00:24:27.53
into are
expecting this end result
00:24:27.56\00:24:30.83
that we, that we've
said we want to go into
00:24:30.87\00:24:34.10
and now, and so
now to break it off
00:24:34.14\00:24:38.67
is just not going to happen
00:24:38.71\00:24:40.31
even though we're
gonna push through it.
00:24:40.34\00:24:42.54
And so now we're married.
00:24:42.58\00:24:45.45
And now, right, we say
the Lord, will work it out,
00:24:45.48\00:24:48.05
but that doesn't
necessarily mean the Lord
00:24:48.08\00:24:49.98
wants to work it
out that may not...
00:24:50.02\00:24:53.25
That mean, that
does not mean that
00:24:53.29\00:24:55.56
both individuals are
willing and receptive enough
00:24:55.59\00:24:59.03
to allow the
Lord to work it out.
00:24:59.06\00:25:01.96
So now we're married
and we need premarital,
00:25:02.00\00:25:04.93
we need marriage counseling
00:25:04.97\00:25:06.47
because we're on
the verge of divorce
00:25:06.50\00:25:09.20
where a lot of that
could have been filtered
00:25:09.24\00:25:11.41
through in
pre-engagement counseling.
00:25:11.44\00:25:15.48
Should we take this next step?
00:25:15.51\00:25:17.35
Let's analyze our histories.
00:25:17.38\00:25:19.81
Let's analyze who we are now.
00:25:19.85\00:25:22.58
Let's ask the question,
00:25:22.62\00:25:24.62
can I deal with
these things that I see.
00:25:24.65\00:25:27.32
Can I love you past it?
00:25:27.36\00:25:28.82
Can I encourage you through it?
00:25:28.86\00:25:30.99
And can you be there?
00:25:31.03\00:25:32.36
And it's not can you be
there for me necessarily only,
00:25:32.39\00:25:36.13
but each person is supposed
to be caring for the other
00:25:36.16\00:25:39.40
and that and that's
where growth can take place,
00:25:39.43\00:25:41.37
I don't know if,
Keith, you want to.
00:25:41.40\00:25:42.74
That's true.
00:25:42.77\00:25:44.11
I'm...
00:25:44.14\00:25:45.47
Just want to touch on
the idea of the culture
00:25:45.51\00:25:47.34
and the culture saying,
"Listen, you got engaged,
00:25:47.38\00:25:49.84
you got to go
through with this stage."
00:25:49.88\00:25:51.91
And the pastor and me,
00:25:51.95\00:25:54.98
the big brother as
I talk to my sisters,
00:25:55.02\00:25:57.69
the father in me as
I talk to my daughter,
00:25:57.72\00:26:00.26
I would rather...
00:26:00.29\00:26:01.62
Individuals say, "You know what?
00:26:01.66\00:26:02.99
This thing isn't working."
00:26:03.02\00:26:04.56
We put it on Facebook, right?
00:26:04.59\00:26:06.63
We got our pictures up on
IG and all of these things.
00:26:06.66\00:26:10.30
We've
communicated this to the world
00:26:10.33\00:26:12.50
but it is responsibility, right?
00:26:12.53\00:26:15.04
It takes
responsible individuals to say,
00:26:15.07\00:26:16.97
"You know what?
00:26:17.01\00:26:18.34
We thought this thing
was going this direction,
00:26:18.37\00:26:19.71
we thought that this was the...
00:26:19.74\00:26:21.08
What is the best
interest for everybody involved
00:26:21.11\00:26:24.15
that we don't
move this direction?"
00:26:24.18\00:26:25.71
I mean, the same
way we post about,
00:26:25.75\00:26:27.45
I got a new job, right.
00:26:27.48\00:26:29.25
And if you get into that job
and that job isn't working out,
00:26:29.28\00:26:31.49
then what you do?
00:26:31.52\00:26:32.85
You just turn
in your resignation
00:26:32.89\00:26:34.82
or you get a pink slip from now
00:26:34.86\00:26:36.89
when I say, "Yes sir,
these are no longer needed,"
00:26:36.93\00:26:39.69
but it's better to do it
before to say you know what,
00:26:39.73\00:26:44.30
this thing isn't working
00:26:44.33\00:26:45.67
because there's a
lot of individuals
00:26:45.70\00:26:47.04
and this is important for
our young people to understand.
00:26:47.07\00:26:48.47
There's a lot of individuals
who are in marriages right now,
00:26:48.50\00:26:52.47
right, and it's killing
them because they've stepped up
00:26:52.51\00:26:56.64
to what the
culture wanted them to do
00:26:56.68\00:26:58.01
and held on to something
00:26:58.05\00:26:59.38
that God did not
necessarily want for them.
00:26:59.41\00:27:02.78
So it's important.
00:27:02.82\00:27:04.15
It's a very valid point,
00:27:04.19\00:27:05.52
and we hope you
viewers out there
00:27:05.55\00:27:07.56
who are listening
are really taking heed
00:27:07.59\00:27:09.92
to the importance of
nurturing that love, focusing,
00:27:09.96\00:27:15.10
finding out should we
even be pressing forward.
00:27:15.13\00:27:18.37
So keep on
having the conversation.
00:27:18.40\00:27:20.74
Ask, do you
believe that you're scared
00:27:20.77\00:27:22.74
or nervous to
nurture a relationship?
00:27:22.77\00:27:25.51
Are you over zealous?
00:27:25.54\00:27:26.98
What can you do to help
others in your community
00:27:27.01\00:27:30.58
to make the right decision
00:27:30.61\00:27:32.55
before they
actually get engaged?
00:27:32.58\00:27:35.32
And what are other reasons
that probably could be the case
00:27:35.35\00:27:38.55
for why a person
is scared or nervous?
00:27:38.59\00:27:41.96
We talk about and
it's Ephesians 4:2,
00:27:41.99\00:27:44.93
"Be completely
humble and gentle,
00:27:44.96\00:27:47.96
be patient bearing
one another in love."
00:27:48.00\00:27:52.90
Please remember out
there to make pure choices.
00:27:52.93\00:27:56.17
Thank you, guys.
00:27:56.20\00:27:57.54
Thank you. Thank you.
00:27:57.57\00:27:58.91