The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Welcome to Pure Choices.
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I'm Ron Woolsey, of
Coming Out Ministries.
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And with me today,
are my three colleagues,
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Wayne Blakely, Michael
Carducci and Danielle Harrison.
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And we're glad
to all be together
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on this set today, right?
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Yes, we are. Amen.
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You know, we've all
come out of the gay life
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and I'm sure that
we all have burdens
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for people we left behind.
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I know, I had quite a
burden for friends that I had
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when I left the gay life.
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In fact, I
communicated for quite sometime
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with some of them,
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and even with the
person that I left behind.
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I tried to witness to him
and then I begin to realize
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I'm not the right person
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to be witnessing to the
person that I left behind,
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because that kept me
emotionally entangled,
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and kept
drawing, drawing me back
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into that mindset with him.
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And so I had to turn
him over to the Lord.
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But as we minister today
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in this field of ministry,
I want to ask you, Danielle,
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what do you believe
is the most effective way
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to reach out to
friends of ours who are gay
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or people that we
meet along the way,
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who are in this
LGBT, the culture?
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Oh, I think there are many ways
that we can reach out to them
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but since you said,
the most effective way,
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then I would say prayer.
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And I say that simply
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because as I look at
to Coming Out Ministries,
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the four of us and
many of the other volunteers
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who have shared
testimonies with our ministry,
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and you know,
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across the board
people we've met.
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Prayer has really
been a pivotal factor
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for each and everyone of us
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and for each and
everyone of them.
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And so I would
encourage people to pray
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intentionally and consistently.
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By intentionally,
I mean specifically.
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And prayers like my
mom prayed, she prayed,
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"Lord, interrupt their
plans, interrupt her life,
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convict her of her sins
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and help her to see
her need of newness."
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We pray those kind
of prayers consistently,
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we can also pray
for the Holy Sprit.
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And in Luke
11:13, God promise us
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that if we ask
for the Holy Sprit
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then he will be sent.
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And so I would say
prayer is the most effective.
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Amen. I agree.
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I think all of us
are the recipients
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like you say of prayer.
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I know in my case,
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I found out my father
was reading my own testimony
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that he found it amusing
that his prayer was right there
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word for word,
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that the Lord would give
me no rest day nor night,
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and he said,
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"There's my prayer
and there's my answer."
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So yes, I agree that
prayer is very effective.
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Michael, in your
journey back to the Lord,
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was there
anything that you found
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that friends or people
in the church did for you
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that helped you
along that journey,
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to help bring you back in?
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You know it's
amazing as each one of us
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had such a diverse background,
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even though we all struggle
the same-sex attraction.
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One of the things that would
so incredibly affirming for me,
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God was so intimate
that He knew the issue
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that I needed to be address
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and that was
really an affirmation
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by other men in the church.
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At a foot
washing at this church,
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this man insisted that he
wash my feet and I sat down.
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And as he bathe my
feet, he merely just said,
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you know, things that
were just a affirming.
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Said he
appreciated my enthusiasm
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that I was a
blessing to the church.
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And those simple
things by this man
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that wasn't afraid to touch
me, wasn't afraid to affirm me,
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and as he
started to pray over me,
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every man in that room
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they was moved
by the Holy Sprit.
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They didn't know
how to heal someone
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with homosexual past
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or how to deal
with my lost manhood,
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but as they were
lead by the Holy Sprit,
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each one of them got up
and as this man prayed for me,
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each one of them put
their hands on my shoulder.
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And that to me,
was an affirmation
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that God was saying
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"No, Mike, you're not
part of the lady's lunch club,
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you're one of the men."
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I have a follow-up
question that comes to mind,
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for you, Michael, when you
were going through that process.
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Do you think that compromising
on principles or standards
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would have--
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excuse me,
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would have helped
you come to the Lord
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or would have
hindered you in that process?
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It would have
given me mixed messages,
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it would have made the road
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that was so difficult
and long for me anyway,
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it would have made
it even more complicated
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because I was trying
to compromise myself.
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I was trying to
keep my boyfriend,
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I was trying to
keep my identity,
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but everywhere I turned I
found consistency in God's word,
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I found
consistency in God's people
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and as they held up the standard
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then instead of me trying
to bring it down to my level
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it helped bring
me up to its level.
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I can't help but think
that if you had seen compromise
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it would have been a
disappointment to you
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because it would not
presented something rock solid
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that you could hang on to you.
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I think what it
would have done for me,
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would have caused confusion
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and could have possibly been
a chasm for me to fall in to.
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Yeah.
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You know, the
church has been criticized
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for making many
mistakes along the way,
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and I know each one of us,
in sharing our own experiences,
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we talk about how the
church was not there for us.
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We, no one was
talking about the issues,
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there were no
resources, we didn't know
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that there was anyone
that we could safely go to
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and talk about the
issues we were struggling with.
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And so, Wayne,
I want to ask you,
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what do you think
is the biggest mistake
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that we as Christians make
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in reaching out
to the gay people?
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Do we make mistakes?
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Yes, I think there
have been mistakes.
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In the past, it was
from unintended ignorance.
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Today, I wonder
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if it's from
willful ignorance at times.
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Some of the mistakes I
think we're making today
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are in not really confirming
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that God has a
plan for every life
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and that there is a
way out of something
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that doesn't please God.
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I needed someone to come
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and talk to me
about my fallen nature
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and my natural inclinations,
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verses what is
possible through self denial
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and walking with Jesus Christ.
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So I think that if
we can get educated,
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if we would reach out
for education about this
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and wanting to move forward
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and educating in the way
that God has provided to us
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instead of looking
to gloss things over
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or adapt our speech
to common terminology.
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And may be from
the gay community
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instead of the
terminology that God gives us
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in His word about, you
know, becoming a new creature
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and who we can
be in Jesus Christ,
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you know, that's where I
think where our deficit is.
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But I think headways been made,
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I see it
happening in this ministry
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as we go from church to church.
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Yes, and I think
also in this effort,
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there's like a ditch on
either side of the road.
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We're all too
familiar with, I know, Mike,
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I've heard you talking
about going to gay pride prayers
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and you see the signs
that say, 'God hates fagots,'
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and you know, things like that.
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So we have that element
within the Christian church
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where people are not
caring, they're not loving,
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they're not
sympathetic, and understanding.
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And then, on the other side
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we have those that are,
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should I say, too caring,
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they are too timid
about sharing the message,
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they try to just except
this blind love and acceptance.
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And that, I think could be very,
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either one of those
can be very damaging.
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God has a plan in a way
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to present that is very winning,
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it's very solid, that
it's very compassionate
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without
compromising His principles.
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When we are interacting
with gay people, Mike,
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and with the LGBT community,
what should be the goal,
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of course, the
goal is to win them
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all the way to Christ.
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Can you elaborate on the goal
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when we're
talking and interacting
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with gay people?
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Right.
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The goal in my opinion should be
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to meet them where they are,
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as you draw
them to Jesus Christ.
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The beautiful thing is,
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nobody got in my
way or got in my face
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and told me that
my same-sex attraction
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was wrong or against God's will,
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even though it was
there in God's word
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that He had more for me
than I could possibly imagine.
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But my defenses were
so high, there was no way
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that somebody was going to
reach me with that approach.
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I needed to see
the love of Christ,
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I needed to see it
manifested in people,
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I needed to see
an investment in me.
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Because again,
we've all discussed,
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you know,
throughout these programs
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about how we felt rejection
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and that rejection
caused this wall to go up,
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especially in Christianity,
because most of the offence
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that we experienced
came from the church.
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So coming back into the church,
it was going to take somebody
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that was willing to look beyond
what my need was and to show me
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that my true need
was really Jesus Christ.
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And then as I started walking
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in that
relationship with Jesus Christ,
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He started to show me
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that my relationship was
not in accordance with His word.
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He started to show me
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that I could have new
taste, new tendencies,
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you know, as
long as I surrendered
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my old tendencies to Him.
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It wasn't an easy process,
it wasn't an overnight thing
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but as I walked with Him
and as He showed me that,
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that's where the change came.
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So again, the goal should not be
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to convert a
homosexual to heterosexuality.
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The goal should
be to lift up Jesus.
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Right.
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And I think we've all
had people come to us,
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concerned about their
children or their brothers
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or a husband or
a wife or whatever.
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They want to know,
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how do I turn them
away from the gay life?
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And that seems to be
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their total focus
first and foremost,
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how do I get them to
turn away from the gay life?
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But isn't that
first things here?
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Yes, it is.
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Because that's the biggest thing
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in front of them is like,
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my son is gay,
my daughter is gay.
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Sure, I understand that.
00:11:34.12\00:11:35.46
And they're very
concerned about that.
00:11:35.49\00:11:39.09
But the first thing I ask
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is whether that
person is Christian?
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And usually they say, "Well, no,
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they won't have
anything to do with the Lord."
00:11:46.50\00:11:48.10
So, then what's the
point of working about
00:11:48.14\00:11:51.24
with the gay issue is there?
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What should come first,
what should be the goal?
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Prayer,
absolutely, we talk about--
00:11:55.28\00:11:57.05
You want me to
go for that person.
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Which person, the
parent or the child?
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The gay person.
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The gay person
needs to know Jesus.
00:12:02.05\00:12:03.65
Exactly, and you mentioned that,
00:12:03.69\00:12:05.92
I just wanted to capitalize
on that seek ye first.
00:12:05.95\00:12:08.89
Right.
00:12:08.92\00:12:10.26
But you know,
Ron, most of the time,
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I can't even say the
lot, but most of the time
00:12:11.66\00:12:14.06
people wanna know
what the answer is,
00:12:14.10\00:12:15.86
when really they had
the answer all along.
00:12:15.90\00:12:18.47
Prayer should be the
first line of defense
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not the last resort.
00:12:20.57\00:12:22.10
And as we focus on that,
00:12:22.14\00:12:24.44
its amazing to see the
confusion on people's faces
00:12:24.47\00:12:27.08
and almost, an
indifference like, "Oh, prayer?"
00:12:27.11\00:12:30.55
But really, number one,
00:12:30.58\00:12:32.45
that's why
we're all sitting here
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because of that very part,
of the prayers of other people
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that were helping to lift us up.
00:12:37.52\00:12:38.95
And I know in my
experience as I was studying
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and I was learning about Jesus,
00:12:42.29\00:12:45.29
and I was falling in
love with Him as my savior.
00:12:45.33\00:12:48.73
Then I could see
that there were things
00:12:48.76\00:12:51.40
that needed to be
change in my life,
00:12:51.43\00:12:53.07
I wanted to be more like him.
00:12:53.10\00:12:56.14
As I focused on Jesus, I begin
to really despise the things
00:12:56.17\00:13:01.61
that I was involved with.
00:13:01.64\00:13:03.35
And so it really is I
think the most important thing
00:13:03.38\00:13:07.62
is to get help them
to come to know Jesus
00:13:07.65\00:13:11.75
and develop an
intimate relationship.
00:13:11.79\00:13:13.82
And things then just
start changing out there
00:13:13.86\00:13:16.66
little by little.
00:13:16.69\00:13:18.03
And the gay issue may
be down the list always,
00:13:18.06\00:13:21.06
it may not be the number one.
00:13:21.10\00:13:23.80
Danielle, when
interacting with people
00:13:23.83\00:13:25.93
who are in the LGBT community,
00:13:25.97\00:13:30.11
are there parameters that
we should draw, are there,
00:13:30.14\00:13:33.88
is there a line
that we should not cross?
00:13:33.91\00:13:37.78
How far do we go
00:13:37.81\00:13:39.78
to show this love and compassion
00:13:39.81\00:13:44.35
without condemning
00:13:44.39\00:13:46.76
but then also without condoning?
00:13:46.79\00:13:49.72
Well, you know, Ron, I
think that it's important for us
00:13:49.76\00:13:52.39
to remember that
with LGBT community
00:13:52.43\00:13:56.77
or any person that
we're working with really,
00:13:56.80\00:14:00.04
there is an importance
for us to choose their society
00:14:00.07\00:14:04.81
only when there's
opportunity to do good for them.
00:14:04.84\00:14:08.28
And when I say
that, I mean, you know,
00:14:08.31\00:14:10.81
if we go into certain
environment situations,
00:14:10.85\00:14:14.52
experiences with people,
00:14:14.55\00:14:17.02
and the influence
of the enemy is there
00:14:17.05\00:14:20.66
then there's obviously,
00:14:20.69\00:14:22.92
there is going be a
bridge or wall for us,
00:14:22.96\00:14:27.16
not a bridge but a wall
00:14:27.20\00:14:28.70
for us to be able to share
Christ with them, you know.
00:14:28.73\00:14:31.40
If we are
striving to help someone
00:14:31.43\00:14:34.70
or minister to someone
who struggles with alcoholism,
00:14:34.74\00:14:38.17
we are definitely not gonna
go to a bar with them, right?
00:14:38.21\00:14:41.11
So we want to be sure
00:14:41.14\00:14:44.15
that we are
reaching out to them in a way
00:14:44.18\00:14:45.98
that doesn't place
ourselves in an environment
00:14:46.01\00:14:50.49
where the enemy has
a strong hold there.
00:14:50.52\00:14:53.96
So you know, we want
to keep ourselves free
00:14:53.99\00:14:57.46
from the demoralizing
influences of the world
00:14:57.49\00:15:00.70
and not encourage
them in activities
00:15:00.73\00:15:03.16
that are harmful to them.
00:15:03.20\00:15:05.73
So you know, I
specially encourage us
00:15:05.77\00:15:08.50
to just invite them
into activities that we have,
00:15:08.54\00:15:13.44
that we know that
are helpful for them
00:15:13.48\00:15:14.84
and beneficial for them.
00:15:14.88\00:15:16.85
So I think that
there are parameters
00:15:16.88\00:15:20.02
in that aspect,
00:15:20.05\00:15:21.38
you know, not doing something
that we wouldn't usually do
00:15:21.42\00:15:24.19
in order to able
to minister to them.
00:15:24.22\00:15:26.82
But I also think that
00:15:26.86\00:15:28.22
when we're
ministering with anyone,
00:15:28.26\00:15:30.03
you know, we place borders
not to be alone with people,
00:15:30.06\00:15:32.66
and so we shouldn't, you know,
place that border here as well.
00:15:32.69\00:15:35.80
So, you don't think
that setting up a ministry
00:15:35.83\00:15:38.07
to go into
nightclubs on a regular basis,
00:15:38.10\00:15:40.80
gay bars would be a
healthy way to minister?
00:15:40.84\00:15:44.11
I don't think so. Right.
00:15:44.14\00:15:45.84
There are those limitations.
00:15:45.87\00:15:47.91
You know, we think
about Jesus, He was accused,
00:15:47.94\00:15:50.75
you know, of being a
winebibber and a glutton
00:15:50.78\00:15:53.65
because he mingled with
the people that He loved,
00:15:53.68\00:15:57.29
and He wanted to save.
00:15:57.32\00:15:59.05
That I think there is a
really fine balance there,
00:15:59.09\00:16:02.39
He was able to do that in a way
00:16:02.42\00:16:04.46
that did not
cross those boundaries
00:16:04.49\00:16:06.96
that we're talking about.
00:16:07.00\00:16:08.53
He loved being with the sinners,
00:16:08.56\00:16:10.63
but he did not
participate in sin.
00:16:10.67\00:16:13.74
And so, yeah, thank
you very much for that.
00:16:13.77\00:16:16.14
Wayne, parents
have great challenges
00:16:16.17\00:16:22.61
in this day and age
00:16:22.64\00:16:24.78
with everything that's
going on all around us,
00:16:24.81\00:16:27.38
in the media, in society,
00:16:27.42\00:16:30.09
in the education
field, and so forth.
00:16:30.12\00:16:35.59
So the parents are confronted,
00:16:35.62\00:16:39.79
I can only imagine
when a parent goes through,
00:16:39.83\00:16:42.96
I saw what my
parents went through,
00:16:43.00\00:16:45.27
when I came out,
when I announced.
00:16:45.30\00:16:50.11
I didn't really announced
but when I talked to my wife
00:16:50.14\00:16:52.84
and told her that I was gay
and then my parents found out.
00:16:52.87\00:16:58.78
What would you
say is the best thing
00:16:58.81\00:17:00.82
that a parent can do for a child
00:17:00.85\00:17:02.65
who as come out of the
closet, come out gay and proud?
00:17:02.68\00:17:08.89
Well, first, I know
that the information,
00:17:08.92\00:17:11.36
if it's
unsuspected can land, you know,
00:17:11.39\00:17:15.13
like a bomb and set
of all kinds of emotions
00:17:15.16\00:17:19.37
including anger,
and pain, and hurt,
00:17:19.40\00:17:23.84
and you know,
00:17:23.87\00:17:26.51
how could this
have happen, you know.
00:17:26.54\00:17:28.44
And then self-blame
comes in for many parents.
00:17:28.48\00:17:32.31
You know, "What did I do?"
00:17:32.35\00:17:33.82
You know, "I've
certainly messed up
00:17:33.85\00:17:35.18
somewhere along the away."
00:17:35.22\00:17:36.89
But you know, something
that you've should, Ron,
00:17:36.92\00:17:39.35
that I share with
the other parents today
00:17:39.39\00:17:43.86
is to not to show
this hurt and this remorse
00:17:43.89\00:17:50.47
and morbidity in
front of their child
00:17:50.50\00:17:54.17
because you know,
that's a sign of weakness.
00:17:54.20\00:17:58.17
And the child needs to know
00:17:58.21\00:17:59.61
that there is
still strength there
00:17:59.64\00:18:01.61
in there parent.
00:18:01.64\00:18:03.65
A book I was reading recently,
you know, called Messy Grace.
00:18:03.68\00:18:08.05
You know, talks
about the tension
00:18:08.08\00:18:09.82
between grace and truth.
00:18:09.85\00:18:12.75
And what, it's like
what Jesus does for us
00:18:12.79\00:18:16.22
is that while they may
not be up to the optimum place
00:18:16.26\00:18:21.00
that the parent
might want their child
00:18:21.03\00:18:22.96
right this very moment,
00:18:23.00\00:18:24.80
that through
the power of prayer,
00:18:24.83\00:18:26.43
you know, many
things can happen.
00:18:26.47\00:18:28.24
But to thank their child
00:18:28.27\00:18:30.07
for sharing this very
delicate matter with them,
00:18:30.11\00:18:35.54
for having the
guts, you know, to say,
00:18:35.58\00:18:39.38
"You know, I need you
to be aware of something
00:18:39.41\00:18:41.92
I didn't plan on,
00:18:41.95\00:18:43.45
and I know that is
important for you to know,
00:18:43.49\00:18:46.76
but it is a change in my life."
00:18:46.79\00:18:49.42
And it could be that that child
is going to immerse themselves,
00:18:49.46\00:18:53.06
you know, into the gay culture.
00:18:53.09\00:18:54.83
Acceptance doesn't always imply,
00:18:54.86\00:18:58.60
have to imply approval.
00:18:58.63\00:19:00.50
And so excepting the child,
00:19:00.54\00:19:02.34
remembering that
that is your of child,
00:19:02.37\00:19:04.21
loving that child, making
sure that they are confident
00:19:04.24\00:19:08.88
about your great love for
them, is solidly most important.
00:19:08.91\00:19:13.58
And let them know
that God loves them too,
00:19:13.62\00:19:15.48
and God isn't leaving them
or forsaking them over this.
00:19:15.52\00:19:19.35
And then in the
future there may come a time
00:19:19.39\00:19:22.89
where the child is
invitational for conversation,
00:19:22.92\00:19:26.33
don't impose,
don't put upon a child
00:19:26.36\00:19:28.56
something they
are not ready for.
00:19:28.60\00:19:30.37
Look for an opportunity
to share biblical truth
00:19:30.40\00:19:33.40
and have discussion
that would be redemptive,
00:19:33.44\00:19:36.24
but never forceful.
00:19:36.27\00:19:38.17
And it really is
true that a joyful parent
00:19:38.21\00:19:42.48
will give that child
of whatever age an image
00:19:42.51\00:19:48.28
that they can always hold on to,
00:19:48.32\00:19:50.42
that nothing seems to be
00:19:50.45\00:19:51.95
able to break
the joy of my parent,
00:19:51.99\00:19:53.96
even my fallen state.
00:19:53.99\00:19:56.32
What is it that they
have that I don't understand?
00:19:56.36\00:20:00.60
And what is it that they have
that I really need my life--
00:20:00.63\00:20:04.13
To have a strong
hold. Yeah, absolutely.
00:20:04.17\00:20:08.90
I know when we are
working with our gay friends
00:20:08.94\00:20:12.14
and someone, Danielle,
00:20:12.17\00:20:13.51
that we're trying to witness to,
00:20:13.54\00:20:17.08
there is a hypersensitivity
within the gay culture,
00:20:17.11\00:20:21.52
I can say that as a testimony.
00:20:21.55\00:20:24.65
We all, I think agree
00:20:24.69\00:20:26.25
that there's just
this hypersensitivity
00:20:26.29\00:20:28.32
to feelings,
emotions, to rejection.
00:20:28.36\00:20:31.73
So how do you go
about not hurting someone
00:20:31.76\00:20:37.10
while still standing
firm in your convictions
00:20:37.13\00:20:39.53
and not
compromising on your principals?
00:20:39.57\00:20:43.67
Well, you know, I think
00:20:43.71\00:20:45.04
that every
situation really is different,
00:20:45.07\00:20:47.48
every person is different
00:20:47.51\00:20:49.21
in the way that they
have walked into the place
00:20:49.24\00:20:52.45
where they stand at that
time, and it's, you know,
00:20:52.48\00:20:57.69
you gonna have to
navigate with them differently
00:20:57.72\00:20:59.99
and they're going to
come away from it differently.
00:21:00.02\00:21:02.59
And so, it really
takes a lot of tact,
00:21:02.62\00:21:05.66
and it really
takes a lot of prayer
00:21:05.69\00:21:08.50
and being saturated, I
believe, in the Holy Spirit.
00:21:08.53\00:21:11.33
So because every
situation is different,
00:21:11.37\00:21:17.07
I strive not only to spend time
00:21:17.11\00:21:20.24
in the word of
God every single day.
00:21:20.28\00:21:24.15
I try to do that not
just from my own personal,
00:21:24.18\00:21:26.65
spiritual growth and benefit.
00:21:26.68\00:21:28.65
But as I've been in ministry,
00:21:28.68\00:21:30.49
as I've gone
through this experience
00:21:30.52\00:21:33.02
of God bringing
people across my path
00:21:33.05\00:21:37.63
along the journey,
00:21:37.66\00:21:39.19
I've seen over and
over and over again
00:21:39.23\00:21:42.20
that the Lord drives me
00:21:42.23\00:21:45.10
to certain passages of
scripture and certain books,
00:21:45.13\00:21:49.50
in preparing me to have
00:21:49.54\00:21:52.57
just the right
information fresh in my mind
00:21:52.61\00:21:55.18
from what I've read recently
to able to reach that person,
00:21:55.21\00:21:58.81
what they need
right there, you know.
00:21:58.85\00:22:00.42
And as I'm
talking with that person,
00:22:00.45\00:22:04.82
the words starts
bringing things into mind
00:22:04.85\00:22:06.76
from what I've read recently.
00:22:06.79\00:22:08.82
And so, I just,
I encourage people
00:22:08.86\00:22:13.36
to be constantly praying
00:22:13.40\00:22:14.80
as you're
talking with the person
00:22:14.83\00:22:16.60
and allow the Lord to
lead you into what to read
00:22:16.63\00:22:20.80
and how to apply those things
00:22:20.84\00:22:23.41
for yourself and
for other people.
00:22:23.44\00:22:25.34
And use what the lord
has been teaching you,
00:22:25.37\00:22:28.44
and use it as a testimony,
00:22:28.48\00:22:30.48
use it as a
witness for that person,
00:22:30.51\00:22:33.11
and let the Lord drive
you into those conversation.
00:22:33.15\00:22:36.12
And If you're gay
friend has found you someone
00:22:36.15\00:22:38.72
that is approachable,
someone that they can trust,
00:22:38.75\00:22:43.43
may be that person
will just ask a question,
00:22:43.46\00:22:48.46
and if you have discernment
00:22:48.50\00:22:51.37
you can tell where
enough is enough, right?
00:22:51.40\00:22:53.50
That's right.
00:22:53.54\00:22:54.87
Because you may
need to just plant a seed
00:22:54.90\00:22:56.71
and then let it go, right?
00:22:56.74\00:22:58.81
And not all, and not
just give them shotgun,
00:22:58.84\00:23:01.94
everything you know.
00:23:01.98\00:23:03.31
Yes
00:23:03.35\00:23:04.68
I have seen that at
times that a person may,
00:23:04.71\00:23:07.15
they can only
handle just a little bit,
00:23:07.18\00:23:09.68
you give him that little bit
and then just changes subject.
00:23:09.72\00:23:12.75
All right, if they
ask another question,
00:23:12.79\00:23:15.09
go with that.
00:23:15.12\00:23:16.46
Yeah, and it's, it can
be a very delicate walk.
00:23:16.49\00:23:20.66
But the lord will
give us discernment
00:23:20.70\00:23:22.20
in that if we truly
have burden for that soul.
00:23:22.23\00:23:26.43
I--
00:23:26.47\00:23:28.90
want to ask you, Mike, here,
00:23:28.94\00:23:32.81
we--
00:23:32.84\00:23:34.18
I think we believe
00:23:34.21\00:23:35.64
that we understand
the LGBT mindset, right?
00:23:35.68\00:23:40.62
We've been there, so.
00:23:40.65\00:23:43.02
Now we may not understand
it as well as we think we do,
00:23:43.05\00:23:46.49
but we have pretty
good understanding.
00:23:46.52\00:23:48.69
But to our viewing audience,
00:23:48.72\00:23:51.39
many of these people, I'm sure,
00:23:51.43\00:23:53.73
do not know how
to relate to people
00:23:53.76\00:23:57.87
in the LGBT community.
00:23:57.90\00:24:01.97
So, how can--
00:24:02.00\00:24:04.64
can you give us an idea
how to better relate to them
00:24:04.67\00:24:08.48
when we really
don't understand them?
00:24:08.51\00:24:10.91
How do you witness to them
00:24:10.95\00:24:12.28
if you really don't
understand there issue?
00:24:12.31\00:24:13.92
Right.
00:24:13.95\00:24:15.28
Well, part of I think
our obligation as a Christian
00:24:15.32\00:24:18.45
is to get to understand them.
00:24:18.49\00:24:19.99
I can't understand Wayne
unless I spent time with Wayne.
00:24:20.02\00:24:22.76
There you go.
00:24:22.79\00:24:24.13
And one of the things
00:24:24.16\00:24:25.83
that we've
learned in this ministry
00:24:25.86\00:24:27.20
is because of our
diverse backgrounds,
00:24:27.23\00:24:28.70
I've learned much more
as I've listen to Danielle
00:24:28.73\00:24:31.23
and to you, Ron, and to
Wayne, and other people.
00:24:31.27\00:24:34.54
You know, I
understand more as I listen
00:24:34.57\00:24:37.54
the circumstances
that you've come from,
00:24:37.57\00:24:39.14
they don't related to me
00:24:39.17\00:24:40.51
or that I don't even understand.
00:24:40.54\00:24:42.24
And as I spent time and pray
00:24:42.28\00:24:44.78
and ask for the
guidance of the Holy Sprit,
00:24:44.81\00:24:46.51
when I take a
phone call of somebody
00:24:46.55\00:24:48.58
from around the world
that struggling with the either
00:24:48.62\00:24:50.82
pornography addiction
or homosexual attraction,
00:24:50.85\00:24:53.59
I pray and I ask the Holy Spirit
00:24:53.62\00:24:55.26
for that discerning guidance.
00:24:55.29\00:24:57.09
And what I really
focus on is really listening,
00:24:57.13\00:25:00.20
because I was so desperate
for somebody to listen to me.
00:25:00.23\00:25:02.86
And just the fact
00:25:02.90\00:25:04.23
that even if we
didn't know how to help me,
00:25:04.27\00:25:05.93
where in the fact
00:25:05.97\00:25:07.30
that if you're
willing to listen to me,
00:25:07.34\00:25:08.77
that in itself
automatically bounce me to you,
00:25:08.80\00:25:11.67
and help me to thing that,
wow, he may not understand me
00:25:11.71\00:25:15.08
but at least he
allowed me to say
00:25:15.11\00:25:17.28
and get it off my chest.
00:25:17.31\00:25:18.71
And I think that
that's where you just began.
00:25:18.75\00:25:21.18
I think that's
such an important point,
00:25:21.22\00:25:23.35
if we don't
understand then listen.
00:25:23.39\00:25:27.16
That's really great, Mike,
00:25:27.19\00:25:28.52
because as we listen we
will began to understand
00:25:28.56\00:25:31.79
better and
better what is going on.
00:25:31.83\00:25:34.56
And we can learn a lot
00:25:34.60\00:25:36.77
from the person
who is seeking answers.
00:25:36.80\00:25:39.30
We can learn a lot from them
00:25:39.33\00:25:40.67
by just listing
to their stories.
00:25:40.70\00:25:44.21
Danielle, what can
we share with someone,
00:25:44.24\00:25:49.04
who is showing an interest
in learning more about God?
00:25:49.08\00:25:54.65
You know, I think
the important thing to do
00:25:54.68\00:25:57.95
is to cultivate a
belief or a confidence in them
00:25:57.99\00:26:04.23
that a confidence in
the word of God for them,
00:26:04.26\00:26:07.76
you know, point
them back to the word
00:26:07.80\00:26:09.96
and help them to
establish a trust and a belief
00:26:10.00\00:26:14.24
in the word of God.
00:26:14.27\00:26:15.60
Because if you can establish
that connection for them,
00:26:15.64\00:26:19.54
then anything else
00:26:19.57\00:26:20.91
that you have to share with them
00:26:20.94\00:26:22.58
can flow through that conduit
that you've established there.
00:26:22.61\00:26:26.78
So I would say, you know,
00:26:26.82\00:26:29.68
raise the
standard of the word God
00:26:29.72\00:26:31.49
and help them to believe
that they can trust in that,
00:26:31.52\00:26:33.92
and then ask them
thought provoking questions.
00:26:33.96\00:26:37.43
I've realized very quickly
00:26:37.46\00:26:39.19
that one of my
spiritual counselors,
00:26:39.23\00:26:41.76
when I would come to him
00:26:41.80\00:26:43.13
and I start talking
about spiritual things,
00:26:43.16\00:26:45.13
he'd asked me lot of questions.
00:26:45.17\00:26:47.84
And I realized
after little while
00:26:47.87\00:26:49.74
that it wasn't because,
00:26:49.77\00:26:51.14
he didn't have the
answers, because he did it.
00:26:51.17\00:26:54.94
It was because
he wanted to get me
00:26:54.98\00:26:57.55
thinking about the answers
to those kind of questions.
00:26:57.58\00:27:00.22
And I think, when we
really start encouraging people
00:27:00.25\00:27:03.62
to consider spiritual things
and contemplate on their own,
00:27:03.65\00:27:09.32
it starts to cultivate
a confidence within them
00:27:09.36\00:27:13.23
then that may be they
can discern spiritual things.
00:27:13.26\00:27:16.46
And to cultivate a
hunger within them to know more,
00:27:16.50\00:27:20.54
and to learn
more, and to grow more
00:27:20.57\00:27:22.20
in spiritual understanding.
00:27:22.24\00:27:24.27
Okay, beautiful.
00:27:24.31\00:27:25.64
Thank you very much, we--
00:27:25.67\00:27:28.41
you know, we're so
often as Christians accused
00:27:28.44\00:27:31.18
of not
understanding and not caring,
00:27:31.21\00:27:34.02
not really even
wanting to relate.
00:27:34.05\00:27:36.55
But I just want to tell
the viewing audience today,
00:27:36.58\00:27:40.09
Pure Choices really cares,
00:27:40.12\00:27:42.49
that's why they
have us here today.
00:27:42.52\00:27:45.19
Coming Out
Ministry really cares,
00:27:45.23\00:27:47.96
we care about your salvation
00:27:48.00\00:27:49.73
and we care about your
hurts and your sorrows,
00:27:49.76\00:27:53.17
and Jesus cares
more than all of us.
00:27:53.20\00:27:55.47
Amen.
00:27:55.50\00:27:56.84
We want to thank you
00:27:56.87\00:27:58.24
for being with us
today on Pure Choices.
00:27:58.27\00:28:00.41
Tune in again.
00:28:00.44\00:28:01.94