The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are cautioned
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that some
material may be too candid
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for younger children.
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Welcome to Pure Choices.
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I'm Wayne Blakely from
Coming Out Ministries here
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with my colleague, Ron Woolsey.
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Thanks for joining us today.
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I'm going to talk
about a topic here
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a little bit more serious,
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but I think a
very necessary point
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in regards to the
conversation today,
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with regards to homosexuality
identifying as gay,
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Christian, etcetera.
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A lot has been lost today
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with regards to
inappropriate identifying.
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I think we're
losing something there,
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don't you think Ron?
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You recently wrote an article
called The Prefix Christian
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and it sounds a
little bit strange
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in the title.
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What was your thinking
here and how did you come up
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with the title like that?
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Well, you know,
it just dawned on me
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over a long period of time,
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actually is a
long dawn but anyway.
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That as you look
around Christianity this day,
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Christianity is
quite fragmented.
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There are just not
only many denominations
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but within denominations
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you have
contemporary, you have liberal,
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you have social Christians,
you have nondenominational,
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of course that's
not a denomination
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but it may
actually be a denomination,
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because there are so many
nondenominational churches.
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Right.
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And so I just started thinking,
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why is it necessary to have
all of these prefixes attached
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to the word "Christian"?
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So perhaps, we
should actually talk
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about the meaning of
the word "Christian".
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Yes.
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Back in the
beginning, we're all...
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First of all, if we just look
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at what the word
"Christian" means.
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It means someone
who's a disciple of Christ
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and a disciple of Christ
is someone who is entering
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into the discipline
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that goes into
that discipleship.
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A person who
accepts Christ as a mentor,
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someone to
pattern his life after
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and to know how
to be Christ like,
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we have to listen to Christ.
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We have to listen to His words,
His teachings and so today,
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we do that
through reading His Word,
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listening to His Word,
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contemplating and
listening to the Holy Spirit.
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So that we're following
the guidelines of someone
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that we call Lord and Master.
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So the focus is Christ,
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His word, and His guidance to us
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that is for all time.
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Right.
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If we're going
to be a Christian,
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then we need to be like Christ.
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Yeah, and so what
would be a prefix Christian?
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Well, this idea of prefix
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what we know back
in the very beginning,
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if a person was
labeled a Christian,
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everyone knew what that meant
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because that was a new movement
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out of the Jewish church,
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and so in the very beginning
it was a pure word Christian.
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But very early on
in the New Testament,
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we see Paul dealing
with prefix Christians
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because he was
reproving a number of Christians
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in 1 Corinthians 1,
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he was reproving them for saying
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that I'm of Apollo
sin, I'm of Cephas sin,
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well, I'm of the Apostle Paul.
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And he says, wait a minute,
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but Paul didn't die for
you, Christ died for you.
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We were to be Christians
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not Apollo's
Christians, Cephas' Christians
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and Pauline
Christians but Christians.
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So we see that
that prefix started
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the concept of prefixes
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being added to
Christianity started early on,
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but then also
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as you go through church history
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during the reformation
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as The Protestant
Reformation got going,
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there were a
number of Protestants,
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reformers that were
opening windows of light
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upon the
darkness of the dark ages.
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And as these
reformers began to die off,
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their followers formed
creeds around each of them,
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and that's how we
have today Lutherans and...
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Right.
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Baptists and Calvinists
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or Presbyterians and Methodists,
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so those prefixes were coming
in during that time as well.
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So now we have just
hundreds of prefixes today.
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Actually to add a
prefix to the word "Christian",
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that has probably two purposes.
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One is to clarify your
understanding of the word
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and so for example,
a Methodist Christian
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is one who is a
Christian based upon
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what they understand
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and how it spelt out
in the Methodist theology,
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Baptist and
Seventh-day Adventist
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and so forth.
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But then there
is also the prefix
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that doesn't just
clarify the meaning of the word,
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but it actually modifies
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or alters the meaning altogether
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and that's what I'm
concerned with today.
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So something unthinkable
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when I grew up and
with the advance of time
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and with the
progression of this earth
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and also the great
controversy that's going on.
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We see changes
beginning to take place
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even in Christian universities.
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So while I would
have never identified
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or had a group on campus
that I could have gone to
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as a kid and as a
gay or homosexual,
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today the environment
on Christian universities
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has drastically changed
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and that we are opening
up to the world language,
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the world of affirmation
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which is coming through
the LGBT community today.
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Being
indoctrinated on campuses today,
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through organizations,
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straight gay alliances, etcetera
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and adopting
different terminology today,
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like, gay Christian,
bisexual Christian and so on.
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And your estimation
is there something wrong
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in identifying like this.
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This to me is a
very disturbing trend
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and it all comes,
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coming about by
this great effort
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to normalize the gay behavior,
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LGBT behavior.
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For millennia,
this has been something
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that has been totally taboo,
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it is been illegal in the past,
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but now there is this
great effort to normalize it.
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And so not long ago of course
we had the Supreme Court ruling
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just this last year,
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not even a year ago
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that is now trying to normalize,
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the ruling is to
normalize gay marriage.
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So with all of this going on,
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we see Christians in the church
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that are dealing
with the gay issue,
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they have been brought
up in Christian culture
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but they're dealing
with homosexual tendencies
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or even indulging
in homosexual behavior
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and, but they want to continue
their profession as Christian,
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so they're trying to
hang on to both worlds.
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So some of
these "Gay Christians"
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are living celibate
lives and that's a good thing,
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but they want to
keep the identity as gay.
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Right, yeah.
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And that here we're
getting into this prefix...
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Yeah, it's confusing.
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And so when you call
yourself a gay Christian,
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if you're a
celibate doesn't that mean
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you know something
is wrong with being gay
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because every Christian
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should be celibate
outside of marriage.
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So we don't go around saying
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that I'm a
heterosexual Christian.
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No.
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A celibate
heterosexual Christian,
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we're just Christians, you know.
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Right.
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So to me if you're hanging
on to that label, that prefix,
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it indicates something is
still going on in the heart.
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Right.
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Now you may be celibate
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but what's really
going on in the heart
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because the sins of the heart
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actually precede the
sins of overt behavior.
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To someone who loves
God and who identifies,
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let's say today
as a gay Christian.
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I wanna reach out and say
that there's something more
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that's possible
through Jesus Christ
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that maybe people
don't stop and consider,
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identifying as a gay Christian,
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kind of, it separates
you from the church body,
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it puts you off in
like a different section
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or that you've
got different rights
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or, you know,
something different...
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In a category. Yeah.
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And so, I mean you
came out of homosexuality
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out of the gay
culture 24 years ago,
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how do you identify today?
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Do you have any modifiers?
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Well, you've heard
me say this many times
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and it's really
absolutely true what I did.
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I found through the Bible
there are many helpful tips
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on how to
transform or allow the mind
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to be transformed
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bringing every
thought into captivity
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on to the obedience of Christ
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and letting his mind be in me
which is also in Christ Jesus,
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many texts like that.
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What I did, I went
through a mental exercise
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in which I took my homosexuality
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and I hung it on
the forbidden tree
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in the Garden of Eden.
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Mm-hmm.
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And I just made a decision
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no matter how
delectable that fruit,
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it's on the wrong tree.
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Yeah.
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It's not an
option, it's off limits
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and I turned my back on that
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but not just on that, Wayne.
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I turned my back
on a number of vices.
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Sure.
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Well, I have turned
my back on lusting period
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because that's just as much seen
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as overt behavior.
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Alcohol, tobacco,
drugs and many other things
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I turned my back on.
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Now today, I did
not identify myself
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as a
non-practicing pothead Christian
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or a non-practicing
lusting Christian.
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Right.
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Or, you know,
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certainly not a
gay Christian and I...
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Yeah, it's kind of ridiculous.
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You know, we were
talking to a group of pastors
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while back and I just mentioned
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trying to make this point,
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if I were to come into
your church and identify
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as a non-practicing
pedophile Christian,
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could I have membership
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and could I have a church office
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and I really enjoy working
with children by the way.
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You know, the
reaction was quite noticeable,
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so I like to think consistently,
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if a prefix doesn't work here,
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then why do we
take a prefix here
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and attach it and say,
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that's a new
normal within the church.
00:12:02.38\00:12:05.89
Yeah, so if we're altering,
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basically beginning to
alter the meaning of the word
00:12:08.49\00:12:11.83
"Christian", does that
then have some long-term effect
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with regards to
how we're supposed
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to be reaching
out in the mission
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that God has given
us to the world today.
00:12:20.14\00:12:22.60
Oh, absolutely, it
does because for example,
00:12:22.64\00:12:26.98
there are now
calls upon Christians
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that are beginning to
give into this pressure
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to stop using
certain words and phrases
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because they're
offensive to the gay community,
00:12:37.12\00:12:41.49
the LGBT community.
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And so to me this call in
and of itself for Christians
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to not use these words
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if you want to reach
the LGBT community tells me
00:12:51.63\00:12:57.01
that Christian and LGBT
are not compatible, right?
00:12:57.04\00:13:02.41
Or why would a Christian have
to be so careful about words
00:13:02.44\00:13:06.92
that they use
it kind of shows me
00:13:06.95\00:13:11.42
that gay
Christian is an oxymoron
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because the gays,
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they don't use
these Christian words
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if you're talking to us.
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You know, these
attempts to muzzle Christians,
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I've seen recently by
suggesting certain things
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as unacceptable speech
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and there's a
whole list of things
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that we're as Christians
ask not to use any more.
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And first of all,
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I think if we're
having to do that,
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that kind of demonstrates
the weakness of our position
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if we can't face
difference of opinion
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or some other ideas.
00:13:48.39\00:13:49.72
But some of these
things are just so embedded
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within Christian thinking
and preaching and teaching,
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for example,
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love the sinner
but hate the sin,
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revving us not
to use that anymore.
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The Bible clearly says,
00:14:04.44\00:14:06.21
Can you imagine a
Christian not using the phrase,
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"the Bible clearly says",
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but we're being asked not to say
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that anymore.
00:14:14.62\00:14:15.95
Homosexuality is a sin,
00:14:15.98\00:14:17.99
we're not supposed
to say that anymore.
00:14:18.02\00:14:19.79
Right. But the Bible does.
00:14:19.82\00:14:21.19
Yeah.
00:14:21.22\00:14:22.56
And Jesus can change
you that's not acceptable.
00:14:22.59\00:14:26.66
Go and sin no more.
00:14:26.70\00:14:28.83
Wayne, these are words,
00:14:28.86\00:14:30.70
some of these are words
that Jesus Christ Himself said,
00:14:30.73\00:14:35.17
and so we're being
asked to not even use
00:14:35.20\00:14:39.61
the words of Jesus Christ...
00:14:39.64\00:14:40.98
Yeah.
00:14:41.01\00:14:42.34
In order to relate
to the gay community,
00:14:42.38\00:14:44.55
that tells me
there's a serious problem
00:14:44.58\00:14:46.75
within the gay
Christian community
00:14:46.78\00:14:50.12
if you cannot use
the words of Christ.
00:14:50.15\00:14:52.45
Right.
00:14:52.49\00:14:53.82
Yet, you're
calling yourself Christian.
00:14:53.86\00:14:55.39
Yeah, that's adaptation. Right.
00:14:55.42\00:14:57.53
And that's
equating human knowledge
00:14:57.56\00:15:00.33
instead of God's knowledge.
00:15:00.36\00:15:02.53
It seems that more
and more Christians
00:15:02.56\00:15:04.77
are kowtowing to
demands of the gay agenda,
00:15:04.80\00:15:10.11
when we should be promoting
00:15:10.14\00:15:12.17
the message of hope of healing,
00:15:12.21\00:15:14.61
repentance,
00:15:14.64\00:15:16.21
and yet it doesn't
seem to me that from many
00:15:16.24\00:15:20.65
in the Christian community today
00:15:20.68\00:15:23.28
that there is a
call to repentance.
00:15:23.32\00:15:26.05
I sometimes hear sermons,
00:15:26.09\00:15:27.99
and I'm
embarrassed by some Christians
00:15:28.02\00:15:30.43
who go at homosexuality
with a sludge hammer,
00:15:30.46\00:15:34.00
but then on the
other hand I'm hearing
00:15:34.03\00:15:36.90
and just as
offended by preachers
00:15:36.93\00:15:40.57
who are taking the
pulpit and giving the impression
00:15:40.60\00:15:44.07
that it doesn't
matter to God who you love.
00:15:44.11\00:15:49.18
Well, that is not Biblical,
00:15:49.21\00:15:53.18
but this point you're
making about the church giving
00:15:53.21\00:15:58.42
into these things and kowtowing.
00:15:58.45\00:16:01.56
I was on a plane
with a lady not long ago,
00:16:01.59\00:16:04.29
we got into quite a conversation
00:16:04.33\00:16:05.86
because I was
sharing my testimony with her
00:16:05.89\00:16:08.76
and she was a
Christian and she said,
00:16:08.80\00:16:11.13
"You know, I used to be
of a certain denomination."
00:16:11.17\00:16:13.80
Well, she said, "I
used to be Baptist."
00:16:13.84\00:16:16.17
And our church
split over this gay issue.
00:16:16.20\00:16:19.57
Mm-hmm.
00:16:19.61\00:16:20.94
So now I'm a
Presbyterian as you said,
00:16:20.98\00:16:23.81
now our church is splitting over
00:16:23.85\00:16:25.18
this gay issue.
00:16:25.21\00:16:26.55
Why the split?
00:16:26.58\00:16:27.92
Because some in the
church are giving in
00:16:27.95\00:16:30.72
and some are standing
firm on the Word of God.
00:16:30.75\00:16:32.85
Right.
00:16:32.89\00:16:34.22
And I just praise the
Lord, in every denomination
00:16:34.26\00:16:36.39
there are Christians
00:16:36.42\00:16:38.43
that are trying to stand solidly
00:16:38.46\00:16:40.43
on the Word of God
while others are giving in.
00:16:40.46\00:16:43.67
Now I recently
took notes on a sermon
00:16:43.70\00:16:48.74
that I was watching
a television sermon,
00:16:48.77\00:16:51.51
and the preacher was speaking
00:16:51.54\00:16:54.84
from official written statement
00:16:54.88\00:16:57.98
about this where
the gay issue is,
00:16:58.01\00:17:00.72
you know, coming front
and center and I just...
00:17:00.75\00:17:04.09
Was a precision statement.
00:17:04.12\00:17:06.42
It was a precision statement
00:17:06.45\00:17:08.32
and so he was quoting from this,
00:17:08.36\00:17:10.46
and I had to watch it twice
00:17:10.49\00:17:13.53
to really catch
what was going on
00:17:13.56\00:17:14.90
but I could see the real dangers
00:17:14.93\00:17:16.83
they were developing here.
00:17:16.87\00:17:18.20
For example, he was reading,
00:17:18.23\00:17:19.90
there are those among us
00:17:19.93\00:17:21.27
who self
identify as gay or lesbian
00:17:21.30\00:17:24.11
who follow Jesus
with all their hearts,
00:17:24.14\00:17:26.94
that struck me as odd.
00:17:26.98\00:17:29.28
They're
identifying as gay or lesbian
00:17:29.31\00:17:31.61
and yet following
Jesus with all their hearts.
00:17:31.65\00:17:34.32
Jesus who says that
this is not good behavior.
00:17:34.35\00:17:39.55
But it says they
struggle with a celibacy
00:17:39.59\00:17:42.16
he's calling them to embrace.
00:17:42.19\00:17:44.33
Well, I think
probably every single Christian
00:17:44.36\00:17:47.80
is expected to be celibate
and may even struggle with it,
00:17:47.83\00:17:52.00
but this statement is
talking about their struggle
00:17:52.03\00:17:55.07
with gay single people,
00:17:55.10\00:17:57.71
and so it's like elevating
the segment of the church
00:17:57.74\00:18:02.71
to a different position.
00:18:02.74\00:18:05.75
It can be a desperate
struggle and the statement says,
00:18:05.78\00:18:08.72
"Which is why the church
or the community of Jesus,
00:18:08.75\00:18:11.32
the family of God
00:18:11.35\00:18:12.69
must be a place
of refuge, safety,
00:18:12.72\00:18:15.66
healing for
heterosexual and homosexual
00:18:15.69\00:18:18.43
and that's true..."
00:18:18.46\00:18:19.79
Mm-hmm, sure.
00:18:19.83\00:18:21.16
"A place of
compassion and confidentiality."
00:18:21.20\00:18:23.23
But notice the
statement says healing
00:18:23.26\00:18:26.10
and as I listen to
the whole statement,
00:18:26.13\00:18:28.07
I begin to wonder,
what kind of healing?
00:18:28.10\00:18:30.91
Healing of hurts,
healing of being offended,
00:18:30.94\00:18:33.91
healing of discrimination,
they're feeling rejected,
00:18:33.94\00:18:38.78
or is it a
healing of the hearts?
00:18:38.81\00:18:41.65
And I got the
impression from the statement
00:18:41.68\00:18:43.62
that it's talking more
about the healing of being hurt
00:18:43.65\00:18:47.62
and looked down
upon or whatever.
00:18:47.66\00:18:50.63
And the healing
that needs to take place
00:18:50.66\00:18:52.76
of course is the healing
00:18:52.79\00:18:54.50
that leads to
transformation of mind
00:18:54.53\00:18:57.73
as well as behavior.
00:18:57.77\00:18:59.10
But the sermon went on to
say quoting from this statement,
00:18:59.13\00:19:02.70
"Non-practicing gay
persons should be welcomed
00:19:02.74\00:19:06.41
into membership
and church office."
00:19:06.44\00:19:09.01
And that's where I
came up with this thing
00:19:09.04\00:19:10.45
about non-practicing pedophiles,
00:19:10.48\00:19:15.48
non-practicing
adulterer who is not practicing.
00:19:15.52\00:19:18.09
You know, why do we have
to say we're non-practicing,
00:19:18.12\00:19:20.99
if we are being converted
we're turning our back on this.
00:19:21.02\00:19:24.99
So why do we have to
keep carrying a label.
00:19:25.03\00:19:26.36
I know we take gay out
of 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 10
00:19:26.39\00:19:31.73
that lists this
exhaustive list of sinners,
00:19:31.77\00:19:35.54
we take the
homosexual and we're giving...
00:19:35.57\00:19:36.91
Just that one.
00:19:36.94\00:19:38.27
Yeah, that's the only one.
00:19:38.31\00:19:39.64
And there is a
whole list of them.
00:19:39.67\00:19:41.01
Yeah.
00:19:41.04\00:19:42.38
That's a very good point, Wayne.
00:19:42.41\00:19:43.75
But it goes on to say,
00:19:43.78\00:19:45.11
all should
receive spiritual care
00:19:45.15\00:19:46.48
from the church and
that's true but at that point,
00:19:46.51\00:19:48.48
the pastor
interrupted the reading
00:19:48.52\00:19:50.99
and then he
interpreted what he was reading.
00:19:51.02\00:19:53.52
And he said,
00:19:53.56\00:19:54.89
"It does not matter
how you identify yourself.
00:19:54.92\00:19:58.36
You are welcome in
membership and leadership."
00:19:58.39\00:20:02.20
That's what they're saying.
00:20:02.23\00:20:03.70
Now that really
caught my attention.
00:20:03.73\00:20:05.63
Yeah.
00:20:05.67\00:20:07.00
And then he
continued with the statement,
00:20:07.04\00:20:09.50
"We stand against any antipathy
00:20:09.54\00:20:11.27
or hostility
towards homosexuals..."
00:20:11.31\00:20:12.97
Mm-hmm.
00:20:13.01\00:20:14.34
I agree. That's correct, yeah.
00:20:14.38\00:20:15.81
"As well as any
cultural biases that fuel a lack
00:20:15.84\00:20:18.75
of Christ-like love for them..."
00:20:18.78\00:20:20.72
And then it goes on to say,
00:20:20.75\00:20:22.08
"We strongly affirm
that homosexual persons
00:20:22.12\00:20:25.65
have a place in the church."
00:20:25.69\00:20:28.06
Now this statement doesn't
say non-practicing celibate,
00:20:28.09\00:20:32.66
it just says homosexual.
00:20:32.69\00:20:34.26
So it almost goes from
180 to 180 back and forth.
00:20:34.30\00:20:38.27
And I know we've been told,
00:20:38.30\00:20:40.77
well, it's just a
matter of semantics
00:20:40.80\00:20:42.47
but, Wayne, you and I know
00:20:42.50\00:20:44.47
from where we come
from that words matter.
00:20:44.51\00:20:47.51
They do. Don't they?
00:20:47.54\00:20:48.88
Yeah.
00:20:48.91\00:20:50.25
So this statement to me allows
for the "Prefix Christian"
00:20:50.28\00:20:53.95
to assume not only
membership and leadership
00:20:53.98\00:20:56.69
alongside those who
are accepting salvation
00:20:56.72\00:21:01.09
from sin and a new
identity in Christ.
00:21:01.12\00:21:03.53
But it offers
them an equal voice,
00:21:03.56\00:21:07.13
an equal vote, and
an equal opportunity.
00:21:07.16\00:21:10.97
To me that is problematic.
That's a foot in the door.
00:21:11.00\00:21:13.50
Yeah, that's a foot
in the door because...
00:21:13.54\00:21:14.87
To promote a new
agenda, a different agenda,
00:21:14.90\00:21:17.27
and a biblical agenda.
00:21:17.31\00:21:18.64
Right.
00:21:18.67\00:21:20.01
Because the sin
is being attached
00:21:20.04\00:21:22.01
to the name of Christian.
00:21:22.04\00:21:23.38
Because the good
news of the gospel
00:21:23.41\00:21:25.58
is about salvation
from sin not in sin,
00:21:25.61\00:21:29.85
so now it's
beginning to sound like
00:21:29.88\00:21:32.15
the waters are
little bit muddied
00:21:32.19\00:21:34.06
with relationship to
what God's Word says versus
00:21:34.09\00:21:37.59
this world adaptation.
00:21:37.63\00:21:40.40
Right, and then
this just leads me
00:21:40.43\00:21:42.16
into another
line of questioning,
00:21:42.20\00:21:43.53
I try to go through
things rather logically
00:21:43.57\00:21:46.17
if accepting Jesus as savior,
00:21:46.20\00:21:49.14
if I'm accepting
Him as savior from sin
00:21:49.17\00:21:52.97
then why carry
that sin as a label?
00:21:53.01\00:21:55.31
Right. It doesn't make sense.
00:21:55.34\00:21:57.11
And if I'm a
celibate gay Christian,
00:21:57.15\00:22:00.08
that means I'm
suppressing the behavior,
00:22:00.12\00:22:02.98
but what about
the lust of the heart?
00:22:03.02\00:22:06.62
If I am carrying that label,
am I really starving the old,
00:22:06.65\00:22:11.49
and am I really feeding the new,
00:22:11.53\00:22:13.80
and how am I going
to overcome something
00:22:13.83\00:22:16.36
when I keep
wearing it as a label.
00:22:16.40\00:22:18.13
Right, right.
00:22:18.17\00:22:19.50
You don't identify as
a non smoking Christian
00:22:19.53\00:22:22.20
when you come in and
when you've surrendered
00:22:22.24\00:22:25.67
that to Jesus,
00:22:25.71\00:22:27.44
when you've made
changes in your life,
00:22:27.48\00:22:29.24
that the Holy
Spirit has made changes
00:22:29.28\00:22:30.98
in your life,
00:22:31.01\00:22:32.35
it seems very strange to me
00:22:32.38\00:22:34.22
to lay hold of a past identity.
00:22:34.25\00:22:38.65
This goes along
with the lines of,
00:22:38.69\00:22:41.76
when I give my life
over to Jesus Christ,
00:22:41.79\00:22:43.12
and I was like,
00:22:43.16\00:22:44.49
well, I need to
know who I am today,
00:22:44.53\00:22:46.23
and then the person that
helped in my conversion turned
00:22:46.26\00:22:49.03
around and said to me,
"Oh, no, you're still gay."
00:22:49.06\00:22:50.77
And then I was like,
00:22:50.80\00:22:52.13
"Well, then,
what was the change?
00:22:52.17\00:22:53.50
That's right.
00:22:53.54\00:22:54.87
And, you know,
Matthew 7:21 to me
00:22:54.90\00:22:56.84
is a real warning
statement from Jesus Himself
00:22:56.87\00:23:00.78
when He says,
00:23:00.81\00:23:02.14
"Not everyone that
saith unto me, Lord, Lord,
00:23:02.18\00:23:06.65
shall enter into
the kingdom of heaven."
00:23:06.68\00:23:09.32
In other words,
00:23:09.35\00:23:10.69
you may call
yourself a Christian,
00:23:10.72\00:23:12.59
that doesn't mean
you're going to be in heaven.
00:23:12.62\00:23:14.09
Right.
00:23:14.12\00:23:15.46
And that's just Lord, Lord
00:23:15.49\00:23:16.83
and that's not even
talking about prefixes
00:23:16.86\00:23:18.49
but then in John 8,
00:23:18.53\00:23:20.50
Jesus says, "If the
Son therefore set you free,
00:23:20.53\00:23:24.33
you are free indeed."
00:23:24.37\00:23:26.70
If I am free...
00:23:26.74\00:23:28.54
That's a promise, yeah.
00:23:28.57\00:23:29.90
And I hung that on
that forbidden tree,
00:23:29.94\00:23:32.34
I'm not going to
go pluck that fruit
00:23:32.37\00:23:34.88
and carry it around in
a basket everywhere I go
00:23:34.91\00:23:38.15
and just try not to eat it.
00:23:38.18\00:23:40.02
I mean, it's on that
tree that's where it stays
00:23:40.05\00:23:41.95
and I'm over somewhere,
00:23:41.98\00:23:43.45
I disassociate
myself from that altogether.
00:23:43.49\00:23:47.19
That's a part of being,
00:23:47.22\00:23:49.42
you know, having
new life in Christ
00:23:49.46\00:23:51.39
and being free indeed.
00:23:51.43\00:23:54.23
So...
00:23:54.26\00:23:56.16
All right, so let's say
that we dropped that prefix
00:23:56.20\00:24:01.87
with regards to the Christian.
00:24:01.90\00:24:04.01
So how do we deal
00:24:04.04\00:24:05.37
with ungodly practices
and tendencies, temptations?
00:24:05.41\00:24:10.05
Now, and again, the
Bible has so many helpful hints
00:24:10.08\00:24:13.05
and I alluded to
that, helpful hints.
00:24:13.08\00:24:16.95
And I alluded to
that little bit early
00:24:16.99\00:24:18.59
when I was talking
about how we are to bring,
00:24:18.62\00:24:20.32
the Christian is
to bring every thought
00:24:20.36\00:24:21.96
into captivity under
the obedience of Christ
00:24:21.99\00:24:25.06
presenting His body,
00:24:25.09\00:24:26.73
a living sacrifice
letting His mind be in Him
00:24:26.76\00:24:30.00
which is also in Christ Jesus.
00:24:30.03\00:24:32.17
Being transformed by
the renewing of the mind
00:24:32.20\00:24:35.20
so it can truly be said
of him such were some of you.
00:24:35.24\00:24:39.44
Absolutely. Not that you are.
00:24:39.47\00:24:40.81
Right.
00:24:40.84\00:24:42.18
And what we are now is washed,
00:24:42.21\00:24:43.55
sanctified, justified, cleansed.
00:24:43.58\00:24:45.85
Why?
00:24:45.88\00:24:47.22
Because as a man
thinketh in his heart so is he.
00:24:47.25\00:24:51.05
If I identify
as a gay Christian,
00:24:51.09\00:24:54.19
I am gay...
00:24:54.22\00:24:55.72
Yeah.
00:24:55.76\00:24:57.09
And I don't want to be
gay, I want to be Christian.
00:24:57.13\00:25:00.13
Free from being the gay, yeah.
00:25:00.16\00:25:01.50
I want to be free from that
00:25:01.53\00:25:02.86
because 1
Corinthians 6:9 and 10 tells us
00:25:02.90\00:25:05.33
that gays will not be in heaven.
00:25:05.37\00:25:06.70
Right.
00:25:06.74\00:25:08.07
So why do I want to
identify as a Christian
00:25:08.10\00:25:09.44
who will not be in heaven?
00:25:09.47\00:25:10.81
Yeah.
00:25:10.84\00:25:12.17
I mean, that's what
the word, the prefix,
00:25:12.21\00:25:13.54
that's what it says to me.
00:25:13.58\00:25:15.04
I don't want to
associate with something
00:25:15.08\00:25:17.28
that will not be in heaven,
I want to be a Christian.
00:25:17.31\00:25:20.55
It's almost as
though there is this fear,
00:25:20.58\00:25:23.95
since we've ignored this topic
for so long in Christianity
00:25:23.99\00:25:27.59
that by giving true identity
00:25:27.62\00:25:30.26
of who you can
be in Jesus Christ,
00:25:30.29\00:25:32.53
it's been
interpreted as hate speech,
00:25:32.56\00:25:36.56
it's being interpreted
as being unkind to someone
00:25:36.60\00:25:40.40
who suffers from
same sex attraction.
00:25:40.44\00:25:42.50
When we should simply
call it same sex attraction,
00:25:42.54\00:25:45.67
but now it doesn't say that
00:25:45.71\00:25:47.78
you can't talk about that
00:25:47.81\00:25:49.14
or show that you
need help with that,
00:25:49.18\00:25:51.41
but certainly not
the need to identify
00:25:51.45\00:25:53.62
and when you have
a greater identity
00:25:53.65\00:25:55.32
that God offers you.
00:25:55.35\00:25:56.69
Exactly, and I know you've
written articles about this too
00:25:56.72\00:25:59.05
about identity matters,
00:25:59.09\00:26:01.09
and so we both have
done a lot of writing
00:26:01.12\00:26:03.53
and talking on this issue.
00:26:03.56\00:26:05.66
So God's plan of
salvation from sin
00:26:05.69\00:26:08.66
really does exceed anything
00:26:08.70\00:26:10.40
that we can
imagine for ourselves
00:26:10.43\00:26:12.57
that I don't think
00:26:12.60\00:26:14.27
that we're
hearing clearly today.
00:26:14.30\00:26:17.31
Do you have any kind of
closing remarks about this?
00:26:17.34\00:26:20.34
Oh, yes, in closing
I would just contend
00:26:20.38\00:26:23.68
that the prefix Christian
00:26:23.71\00:26:25.05
who attaches sin to his identity
00:26:25.08\00:26:28.35
is really not living up
to his Christian potential...
00:26:28.38\00:26:31.62
Yeah.
00:26:31.65\00:26:32.99
Because that is to be removed,
00:26:33.02\00:26:36.02
Jesus came to set us
free but he is rather living
00:26:36.06\00:26:39.33
with what is called
a patchwork character.
00:26:39.36\00:26:42.63
And I would just like to share
this little quote in closing
00:26:42.66\00:26:47.64
that "Christ gives man
no encouragement to think
00:26:47.67\00:26:50.97
that he will accept
a patchwork character
00:26:51.01\00:26:54.01
made up mostly of self
and a little of Christ.
00:26:54.04\00:26:57.08
Soon it is all of
self and none of Christ.
00:26:57.11\00:27:00.35
Christ looks with
pitying tenderness on all
00:27:00.38\00:27:02.72
who have
combination characters."
00:27:02.75\00:27:04.92
That sounds like a
prefix character to me.
00:27:04.95\00:27:09.36
"The patchwork religion is
not of the least value with God,
00:27:09.39\00:27:12.46
he requires the whole heart.
00:27:12.49\00:27:14.70
No part of it is to be reserved
00:27:14.73\00:27:16.67
for the
development of hereditary
00:27:16.70\00:27:19.67
or cultivated
tendencies to evil."
00:27:19.70\00:27:23.00
Wow.
00:27:23.04\00:27:24.57
That's very clear to me, Ron,
00:27:24.61\00:27:26.64
and I think that
and I hope for anyone
00:27:26.68\00:27:28.84
who is watching that,
00:27:28.88\00:27:30.51
that you digest
this and think about
00:27:30.55\00:27:33.38
who your identity really
truly is in Jesus Christ,
00:27:33.42\00:27:36.89
gives that some real thought
00:27:36.92\00:27:38.35
and consideration as it relates
to a world terminology today
00:27:38.39\00:27:42.79
and Christian
terminology and the Word of God.
00:27:42.82\00:27:46.19
Once again, it's
been a pleasure to be here
00:27:46.23\00:27:47.93
on Pure Choices
to share with you
00:27:47.96\00:27:50.47
and I hope that you will join us
00:27:50.50\00:27:52.47
again real soon
here on Pure Choices.
00:27:52.50\00:27:55.37
God bless you.
00:27:55.40\00:27:56.74