The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Welcome to Pure Choices.
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My name is Michael Carducci,
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and I'm with
Coming Out Ministries.
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Today, it's my delight
to interview Wayne Johnson.
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Welcome, Wayne. Thank you.
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Listen, I just want to give
a little bit of our history.
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Thirty five years ago,
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when we were very
young and with lots of hair.
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I remember, I had like big hair,
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and you had a Jheri curl,
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and we were working in
the same hospital together.
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Wayne, you were
working on the rehab side,
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and I was working
on the psyche side,
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and our dining rooms would meet.
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And so we would see
each other every day,
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would say hi.
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And I remember that
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when I finally came
out into the gay bars,
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and I remember seeing you there.
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We gave each
other this look like
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you don't tell my secret,
I won't tell your secret.
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And so for the next 20 years
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we had somewhat of a
superficial relationship
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through the bar scene,
through friends and parties.
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What was so amazing to me,
Wayne, is that at 40 years old,
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when I came out of the gay club,
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and all of a sudden
one day I was in church,
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I looked into the pew
and there's Wayne Johnson.
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And we gave each
other that same look like,
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you don't tell my
story, I won't tell yours.
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But what God did is he
brought you into my life
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at a time when I needed somebody
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who understood the
journey that I'd been on.
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And we had kind of
gone through similar paths
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and that God had
brought us out of the lifestyle
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just about the same
time that he brought us in.
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And so, Wayne, I
want to hear your story
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as well as many
do our listeners.
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So I just want to
start off a little bit.
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Tell me about your early days?
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Well, I--
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a kid growing up, people,
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you know always when
they see me, they go,
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"Oh, you look
just like your father,
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you know,"
looking like my father.
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"Oh, you're gonna grow up
and be like him, you know."
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But my father was very abusive
toward my mother, you know.
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And when people
would say that to me
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that I look like my father.
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I have all those thoughts,
you know, come to my mind,
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but, you know--
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So what happened like,
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how was that you know
that your dad was abusive,
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was it just
what people said or--
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No, I actually witnessed,
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you know, him beating on my mom,
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and not only that,
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there was one
thing that I witnessed
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that he took a gallon
trash can in the room with water
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and then brought it back
out that was bloody water.
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You know and I was about
five or six years old, you know,
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seeing this, you know.
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And I heard my mother in
the room crying, you know,
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and to me that led, you know,
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I don't want to
be like my father,
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you know, not in
that way, you know.
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So it was in our family,
it was a trying time for me
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and then as like, you know,
as the years went on, you know,
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as a child I was
molested, you know.
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Let's go back just
a little bit, Wayne.
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Talk about the
truck, I like that story.
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Well, the truck, I
remember as the years went on,
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my father we moved
into a new neighborhood
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and to a new place.
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And I remember him moving us in.
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And he stayed that
night, you know, the truck was--
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I remember the truck so
well, it was like a Ford truck,
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mint green you know.
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And so he moved us
in, you know, stayed
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and then the next
day I thought, you know,
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like Mom, Dad
take off, go to work.
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But he left and never came back.
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So as a kid, that night
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I was like standing there
looking out of the window,
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waiting for him to come home.
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You know, looking for my
dad to come home, you know.
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So he never showed up, so. Yeah.
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So here's a little boy
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who is waiting for
his dad to come home.
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And then, something else
happened in the neighborhood.
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Can you share?
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Well, during that time,
you know, life, you know,
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my life, you know, got out,
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start playing
around in the neighborhood,
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made friends, and,
you know, stuff like that.
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And so there was a
gentleman in the neighborhood,
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you know, he was right there,
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and he was well
known in the neighborhood.
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But somehow we were playing ball
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and I remember so
well, we lived in a project,
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and he lived in a
subdivision, you know.
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So he did his hair in a way
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like lured me away
from my friends, you know.
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And I followed him
to his house, that's--
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I was eight
years old at this time.
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And I don't know
for the life of me,
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why I made a choice
like that, you know.
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Seem like he was
someone in the neighborhood
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that we saw, and I followed him.
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And I was molested
there in his home, you know.
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And I...
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it just left me
stunned, you know,
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that something like
that just happened to me.
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So I...
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It made an impression, right?
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Yes, it made
impression on me, that...
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One of the things that I
think is important to notice
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that you don't understand
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how you made a choice like that.
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But I think that many times
children that are victimized,
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you know by perpetrators
and older people, they don't,
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they take a lot
of responsibility
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for what happened.
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When you were molested, Wayne,
he took something from you.
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And so it wasn't
necessarily a choice
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that you consciously made.
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And like you said
before you knew it,
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this had happened, right?
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Right. Was that the only time?
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No, it seemed like,
it was like a dance bar,
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then it was a babysitter.
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This night, this guy wasn't,
my mom normally will ask him,
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you know, my mom
was a single mother now
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at this time.
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So she would ask
him to watch, you know,
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to watch us while she go to work
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and, but this particular
night my mom wasn't at home.
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And I was
sitting out on the porch.
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So here come the
babysitter, you know.
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He sat there, you know,
talking to me, you know.
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And then again
it happened again.
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And so, it's just was.
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And I began and ask--
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you know I begin
to wonder, you know,
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I wasn't gay or
anything, you know,
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before I even knew
what the word gay meant.
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So I kept having
these encounters, you know.
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And once again I--
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you know, I just had to
keep it to myself because, I--
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if I tell Mom, I'm
going to get a beating
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like I brought it on myself.
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And then
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it happened with the
next door neighbor son.
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You know him also, you
know, it's just like and--
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You know something, Wayne,
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I hear you
saying a lot of things
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of the voice of the victim.
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You know this
wasn't what I chose
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and it just kept happening.
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One of our previous programs
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we talked about
the down low culture.
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And it's interesting
that you were victimized
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by other males
in the neighborhood,
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adult males, kids of your age,
kids little bit older than you
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that were sexually
taking advantage of you.
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And it was causing you to
spiral in this understanding
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or like why is
this happening to me.
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I've heard you saying,
right? Right, right. True.
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Okay, and so tell
me the story about,
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you know, things
with your sisters.
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I remember there's a
story about the roof,
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would you share that?
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Well, as we,
you know, my sisters
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they were two little girls
and so they were in school.
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So my mom, she disappeared,
you know, then show up.
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Where did she go?
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Like she will stay
gone from the house
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for days, weeks, you know.
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So we were left there
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and at this
time I was in school,
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you know, about 15 years old.
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So we had electric
disconnected, you know.
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And so and I was working
at the out to the dog track,
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that's what they called
the Seminole County dog track.
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And so and I was
a lead out person.
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And so, but I also
had doing this time,
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our electric was
disconnected, you know.
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So I had to climb up
on the roof of the house
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once they cut it,
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because normally they
would turn it off from the box.
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But if they know
that you're using it.
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They go up on the roof
to disconnect the wire.
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Okay.
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So we had no electric,
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so I've made the
choice to go on the roof,
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and put the wire back together.
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Who told you how
to do that? Nobody.
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You just figured
that out on your own.
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I just figured
out, I just got up there
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and looked at it,
got some black tape,
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went up there
to connect it back.
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And so my sisters
can take a shower,
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bath in the morning
before they take off to school.
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Then I would say, "All
right, you got so much time,
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because I need to get
back up there to disconnect it
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before I go to school.
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So twice a day,
you're on the roof
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to connect the wires
and to disconnect them
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so that your
sisters can take a shower
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and have electricity
to get ready for school
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at 15 years old.
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Yes. Powerful story, Wayne.
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So tell me a little bit
more now, now you're an adult,
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and you're 19 years old,
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and somebody
special came into your life.
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Yeah, 19 years
old, I was working out
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at the Florida
Hospital at this time,
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graduated from school,
been out for a couple of years.
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And this gentleman
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who became my best friend.
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You were his best man
in his wedding, right?
00:10:29.76\00:10:31.16
I was his best
man in his wedding.
00:10:31.19\00:10:32.76
Right.
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And so, he came
into the cafeteria,
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and I was sitting
there in the cafeteria,
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kind of depressed day for me.
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I wasn't feeling good that day,
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and so I say that he saw
walking over toward my table.
00:10:44.17\00:10:48.54
You know, Charles Walker Brook
00:10:48.58\00:10:50.41
and so start
walking toward the table
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and I went, "Oh boy,
here come a Bible worker.
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He come--
00:10:58.79\00:11:00.52
so he sat down
just open up everything
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just start opening up the Bible.
00:11:04.69\00:11:07.53
And we started talking and
I was asking him questions.
00:11:07.56\00:11:11.03
You know I say,
maybe he'll go away
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if he see how much knowledge
00:11:13.97\00:11:15.84
I have about
the Bible, you know.
00:11:15.87\00:11:18.07
Were you are raised with God?
00:11:18.11\00:11:19.74
No. Not at all?
00:11:19.77\00:11:21.11
No Christian
background in my family.
00:11:21.14\00:11:22.64
Okay.
00:11:22.68\00:11:24.01
And what happened, you know,
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and then I was the one out there
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you know asking the questions,
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and he was
answering them just right,
00:11:29.52\00:11:32.55
answering questions, you know.
00:11:32.59\00:11:33.96
Each question that I
asked and it was simple,
00:11:33.99\00:11:38.26
you know, understanding.
00:11:38.29\00:11:40.30
And so I says to him, I say,
00:11:40.33\00:11:42.13
"Well, can we start
having Bible study tomorrow?"
00:11:42.16\00:11:45.13
I was the one and I went out
00:11:45.17\00:11:46.94
and brought me a
little kid Bible.
00:11:46.97\00:11:48.94
They have Bible
study with him. Okay.
00:11:48.97\00:11:51.14
So you gave your
heart to the Lord.
00:11:51.17\00:11:52.51
Yes.
00:11:52.54\00:11:53.88
And then, tell me what
happened after you got baptized?
00:11:53.91\00:11:56.54
After I got baptized,
00:11:56.58\00:11:58.78
I still had this
dark secret dealing,
00:11:58.81\00:12:02.55
actually
homosexuality, you know,
00:12:02.58\00:12:06.45
and the urge came on so strong
till I couldn't control it.
00:12:06.49\00:12:13.43
I just fell right out
there into it, you know.
00:12:13.46\00:12:16.33
It was something I was hiding
from my friends, you know.
00:12:16.36\00:12:19.43
And I thought by
getting baptized,
00:12:19.47\00:12:22.47
it would help the problem.
00:12:22.50\00:12:24.01
Right. You know.
00:12:24.04\00:12:26.07
And I said, good,
you know, it's over,
00:12:26.11\00:12:27.68
you know and,
but it wasn't over.
00:12:27.71\00:12:31.18
I had to face it
head on, you know.
00:12:31.21\00:12:34.18
And as the years
went on, you know,
00:12:34.22\00:12:39.42
I fell away from the church
00:12:39.45\00:12:43.36
and about 20 years,
00:12:43.39\00:12:47.06
1999 again the
Lord sent Charles back.
00:12:47.10\00:12:52.93
Oh, hang on.
00:12:52.97\00:12:54.30
So there's a lot
of years in between,
00:12:54.34\00:12:55.67
we want to kind of
address just to make sure
00:12:55.70\00:12:57.71
that people know that that
this has been an issue for you.
00:12:57.74\00:13:00.91
And that you know
what you're talking about.
00:13:00.94\00:13:02.44
But what was it like
being in gay culture,
00:13:02.48\00:13:05.05
that's when we knew each other
00:13:05.08\00:13:06.55
and you know what
was that like, Wayne?
00:13:06.58\00:13:08.72
Successful relationships,
you know, was it a good time?
00:13:08.75\00:13:12.95
No, it wasn't a good time. Okay.
00:13:12.99\00:13:15.12
I was in bad relationships
that got physical and fighting.
00:13:15.16\00:13:20.03
And not only that,
you know, my relationship,
00:13:20.06\00:13:26.94
boyfriend running
around, you know, he ignored me,
00:13:26.97\00:13:30.91
so I did the
same thing, you know.
00:13:30.94\00:13:33.31
I thought this
was a life, you know.
00:13:33.34\00:13:34.68
Yeah.
00:13:34.71\00:13:36.04
But it wasn't the
life that I wanted.
00:13:36.08\00:13:38.15
Right. You know and so.
00:13:38.18\00:13:39.85
So, Wayne, what
happened on your 35th birthday?
00:13:39.88\00:13:42.28
And on my 35th birthday,
00:13:42.32\00:13:47.79
I went to have to be
check tested for HIV.
00:13:47.82\00:13:52.73
Okay.
00:13:52.76\00:13:54.10
So I had a test, came back
00:13:54.13\00:13:58.30
and my results
that I was HIV positive.
00:13:58.33\00:14:02.47
And you got those results
00:14:02.50\00:14:03.91
actually on your
birthday, isn't that right?
00:14:03.94\00:14:05.34
Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:05.37\00:14:06.71
Wow, what a
terrible birthday present.
00:14:06.74\00:14:09.18
Yeah. So. Yeah.
00:14:09.21\00:14:10.55
You know, Wayne,
we lost a friend,
00:14:10.58\00:14:11.91
a lot of friends
to AIDS, didn't we?
00:14:11.95\00:14:13.28
Yeah.
00:14:13.31\00:14:14.65
You know beginning, I
came out in 1981 when AIDS was,
00:14:14.68\00:14:16.99
you know, first on the scene.
00:14:17.02\00:14:18.35
And we watched
men drop like flies.
00:14:18.39\00:14:20.39
Right. Right. Right.
Yeah, during that time.
00:14:20.42\00:14:22.66
And so, Wayne, at 35, you
know, you find out this news,
00:14:22.69\00:14:25.56
now you're living with HIV.
00:14:25.59\00:14:27.10
And you work in and, you
know, going through the motions,
00:14:27.13\00:14:31.53
and tell me now
00:14:31.57\00:14:33.27
about how things were
pretty dark for you, right?
00:14:33.30\00:14:37.11
Yeah, things got pretty dark,
00:14:37.14\00:14:39.67
because during
that time when I find--
00:14:39.71\00:14:42.84
when I found out
about it, I just got--
00:14:42.88\00:14:46.31
I say, you know, I'm
not going to make it anyway.
00:14:46.35\00:14:48.98
So I start
spending money, you know.
00:14:49.02\00:14:53.59
Going, traveling, you
know, going, partying.
00:14:53.62\00:14:57.66
And, but I still,
00:14:57.69\00:15:00.56
I was getting more
and more depressed.
00:15:00.60\00:15:02.76
Okay. Till I
just watch you know.
00:15:02.80\00:15:06.17
And I became so depressed
that I wanted out so bad,
00:15:06.20\00:15:11.51
you know, and I say,
00:15:11.54\00:15:13.17
this is not
helping me, you know, so.
00:15:13.21\00:15:16.44
I'm HIV positive, so but--
00:15:16.48\00:15:19.45
There was a gun
in your home, right?
00:15:19.48\00:15:21.15
There was a gun,
I had a 357 magnum.
00:15:21.18\00:15:24.79
And I thought
about killing myself,
00:15:24.82\00:15:27.69
and so but.
00:15:27.72\00:15:30.73
Also I had--
00:15:30.76\00:15:32.09
because I'm dealing with,
00:15:32.13\00:15:33.46
you know, I got
to tell my family.
00:15:33.50\00:15:35.23
Let them know,
you know, and that,
00:15:35.26\00:15:38.13
you know, that
I'm in this lifestyle.
00:15:38.17\00:15:40.27
So living a gay lifestyle
and so I'm HIV, you know.
00:15:40.30\00:15:45.74
Yeah. It really
came close to home.
00:15:45.77\00:15:47.54
So Charles called you. Yeah.
00:15:47.58\00:15:49.81
So I was on the way out to work,
00:15:49.84\00:15:52.55
going to work.
00:15:52.58\00:15:53.92
I was sitting at
my desk in my house.
00:15:53.95\00:15:56.08
And I was doing, by the phone,
so I was actually at this time
00:15:56.12\00:16:00.99
I started keeping a little dairy
00:16:01.02\00:16:02.66
asking God to help me.
00:16:02.69\00:16:04.83
Lord, take me to a safer harbor.
00:16:04.86\00:16:07.30
If I hear a song or
something come to my ear,
00:16:07.33\00:16:10.73
anything that was dealing
with God to bring me back,
00:16:10.77\00:16:13.47
you know, to help me.
00:16:13.50\00:16:14.84
I believe God was hearing
that prayer, don't you think?
00:16:14.87\00:16:17.11
I believe He was. Yeah.
00:16:17.14\00:16:18.47
I truly, because
and during this time,
00:16:18.51\00:16:20.38
I was getting
ready for work that day,
00:16:20.41\00:16:23.95
and so, I walked out
of house, locking it,
00:16:23.98\00:16:28.12
getting ready to
put my key in a lock.
00:16:28.15\00:16:30.55
And all of a
sudden, I stop, you know,
00:16:30.59\00:16:32.75
I heard the phone ringing.
00:16:32.79\00:16:34.22
And I said, well, I'm
just gonna go to work.
00:16:34.26\00:16:36.62
But I'm standing
there, something said,
00:16:36.66\00:16:39.13
go back in the house
and answer the phone.
00:16:39.16\00:16:41.16
A voice, and a voice--
00:16:41.20\00:16:43.03
go back and answer the phone.
00:16:43.06\00:16:44.40
Who was on the phone,
Wayne? It was Charles.
00:16:44.43\00:16:47.00
And what did you confess to him?
00:16:47.04\00:16:49.64
After I was--
00:16:49.67\00:16:52.61
I confessed to him, that I said,
00:16:52.64\00:16:54.74
"Charles, I have something
to tell you," you know.
00:16:54.78\00:16:56.98
He went, "You know, I
haven't heard from you,
00:16:57.01\00:16:58.91
you know, in a while,
Wayne," you know and so.
00:16:58.95\00:17:01.98
And I told him, you know, I say,
00:17:02.02\00:17:04.42
"I'm gay and I'm HIV positive."
00:17:04.45\00:17:07.86
And so, the most beautiful
thing he could say to me
00:17:07.89\00:17:12.79
was that he says,
"Wayne, you know something,"
00:17:12.83\00:17:18.33
he says "Jesus can
take care of that."
00:17:18.37\00:17:19.83
That's right.
00:17:19.87\00:17:21.20
He said come and
go to church with me
00:17:21.24\00:17:22.57
and my family this Sabbath.
00:17:22.60\00:17:24.74
And I just cried when I
got off the phone, and--
00:17:24.77\00:17:28.14
Because you
thought, he would reject you.
00:17:28.18\00:17:29.74
I was expecting
for rejection from him.
00:17:29.78\00:17:33.01
You know, that he didn't
want anything to do with me,
00:17:33.05\00:17:36.08
you know.
00:17:36.12\00:17:37.45
So but, God sent him back,
00:17:37.49\00:17:40.42
and I was able to
release the depression
00:17:40.46\00:17:44.26
what I was depressed
about, to get it off my chest.
00:17:44.29\00:17:48.20
And it just, and I can see
00:17:48.23\00:17:50.37
the light of Jesus
coming back in my life
00:17:50.40\00:17:53.80
from that day on, you know.
00:17:53.84\00:17:56.47
And it gave me hope again. Yes.
00:17:56.50\00:17:59.27
Because, and I thought, I
say, and I don't know how,
00:17:59.31\00:18:02.74
remember how he got my number,
00:18:02.78\00:18:05.21
but, you know, it's
just like 20 years later
00:18:05.25\00:18:08.08
Charles called me, you know.
00:18:08.12\00:18:09.45
I haven't seen him in years,
00:18:09.48\00:18:10.82
because I
avoided him and his wife,
00:18:10.85\00:18:14.72
you know, because I was
in their life, you know.
00:18:14.76\00:18:18.09
I had went out,
you know, and I--
00:18:18.13\00:18:22.96
that brought me back.
00:18:23.00\00:18:25.33
So, Wayne, was it
an easy transition
00:18:25.37\00:18:27.17
like after that phone
call, it's all no more problem,
00:18:27.20\00:18:30.04
I'm not gay anymore, you
know, it's all said and done.
00:18:30.07\00:18:33.94
Where there's still
struggles going on in your life?
00:18:33.98\00:18:36.14
Yes, yes. Okay.
00:18:36.18\00:18:37.51
Yes, yes. All right.
00:18:37.55\00:18:38.88
It was still struggles
going on in my life so.
00:18:38.91\00:18:41.72
It was like trying
to get out of the life,
00:18:41.75\00:18:45.39
get away from it, you know.
00:18:45.42\00:18:46.76
Yeah.
00:18:46.79\00:18:48.12
And so it was--
00:18:48.16\00:18:50.86
I made a decision to
be baptized again so.
00:18:50.89\00:18:55.36
And I still was--
00:18:55.40\00:18:56.73
I had, you know, it
wasn't as easy as I thought.
00:18:56.77\00:18:59.73
No.
00:18:59.77\00:19:01.10
So I would call Charles
and talk to him, you know,
00:19:01.14\00:19:03.74
Charles, I'm still
fighting it, you know.
00:19:03.77\00:19:06.74
And, you know, I just went out,
00:19:06.78\00:19:09.84
and so, there were
times I would fall and go back
00:19:09.88\00:19:15.48
and, but I would come
home crying to myself,
00:19:15.52\00:19:20.82
driving home crying,
because I went there, you know.
00:19:20.86\00:19:24.13
Yeah. Right.
Somewhere I didn't want to go.
00:19:24.16\00:19:26.70
And I will fall on my knees
and I just kept praying to God.
00:19:26.73\00:19:29.30
I say, you got to
take this away from me.
00:19:29.33\00:19:31.23
I don't want to
be out to this bar.
00:19:31.27\00:19:33.37
I don't want to be out,
00:19:33.40\00:19:35.47
you know, in this
life like this God.
00:19:35.50\00:19:38.74
I say, please help me.
00:19:38.77\00:19:41.14
And so, Wayne,
00:19:41.18\00:19:42.51
this is about the
time when we met again.
00:19:42.54\00:19:44.75
And I know for me,
you were a huge support
00:19:44.78\00:19:48.15
and the Holy Spirit was
using you in incredible ways
00:19:48.18\00:19:50.75
to speak to me,
and to give me truth,
00:19:50.79\00:19:53.36
when I didn't
want truth, remember.
00:19:53.39\00:19:55.12
Tell me a lie, you know,
00:19:55.16\00:19:56.49
just tell me I can keep
my boyfriend and my identity.
00:19:56.52\00:19:58.86
And you were
the voice of reason,
00:19:58.89\00:20:00.50
and the voice of the Holy Spirit
00:20:00.53\00:20:01.86
many times to me,
00:20:01.90\00:20:03.23
to tell me what
truth was and to help me.
00:20:03.26\00:20:05.67
Thank you.
00:20:05.70\00:20:07.04
You helped me so
many times, you know.
00:20:07.07\00:20:08.50
We just hang out
together on Sabbath afternoon.
00:20:08.54\00:20:10.81
And we actually ended up
meeting another young man
00:20:10.84\00:20:13.51
that was in gay
culture that left his boyfriend
00:20:13.54\00:20:16.08
and we became like
the Three Musketeers.
00:20:16.11\00:20:18.05
Yes.
00:20:18.08\00:20:19.41
We had a lot of really good,
00:20:19.45\00:20:21.32
you know,
spiritual times together.
00:20:21.35\00:20:22.98
And so, eventually
I moved to Tennessee.
00:20:23.02\00:20:24.69
And we were somewhat
distant, but still in touch.
00:20:24.72\00:20:28.59
And then, several years later
00:20:28.62\00:20:31.76
something else
happened when you came to visit.
00:20:31.79\00:20:33.63
Can you talk
about that a little bit?
00:20:33.66\00:20:35.06
Well, several years later
when I came down to visit you,
00:20:35.10\00:20:39.17
to visit, it was a
more, we were walking.
00:20:39.20\00:20:43.20
Yeah.
00:20:43.24\00:20:44.57
The first time--
00:20:44.61\00:20:45.94
so that was my second visit.
00:20:45.97\00:20:47.31
You know, I was
dragging you up that hill.
00:20:47.34\00:20:48.68
Yeah, and I was able
to make it up to hill.
00:20:48.71\00:20:50.51
That's right. Yeah.
And I was getting there.
00:20:50.55\00:20:51.88
But it seems some
time that during that time
00:20:51.91\00:20:54.48
when I came
back the second time.
00:20:54.52\00:20:55.88
Yeah. Something was wrong.
00:20:55.92\00:20:57.79
Yeah I noticed,
your walk was different.
00:20:57.82\00:20:59.15
Yeah, you noticed my mobility.
00:20:59.19\00:21:02.56
And you said, "Wayne,
I'm not trying to be funny,
00:21:02.59\00:21:05.96
but I think you
may have Parkinson."
00:21:05.99\00:21:07.56
Okay.
00:21:07.60\00:21:08.93
But at that time
I guess, I wasn't--
00:21:08.96\00:21:12.10
I knew there was something wrong
00:21:12.13\00:21:13.50
because I thought, I
just was tired from work.
00:21:13.54\00:21:16.77
You know tired from working.
00:21:16.81\00:21:18.91
And, but when I got back home,
00:21:18.94\00:21:21.64
that's when I
consulted with my doctor.
00:21:21.68\00:21:24.05
And I call you
and tell you, I said,
00:21:24.08\00:21:26.85
"Mike, it's Parkinson."
00:21:26.88\00:21:28.22
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:28.25\00:21:29.72
The MRI came back,
the doctor diagnosed me
00:21:29.75\00:21:33.22
as having a mild
case of the Parkinson.
00:21:33.25\00:21:36.79
But I felt like it was
worse than that, you know.
00:21:36.83\00:21:39.93
He was right about one
thing, but wrong about...
00:21:39.96\00:21:43.37
because I was--
00:21:43.40\00:21:45.70
my mobility and my
left side was getting worse,
00:21:45.73\00:21:49.10
my leg start dragging.
00:21:49.14\00:21:51.27
And I thought,
you know, I have--
00:21:51.31\00:21:57.81
and I just put it in
God's hand at that time.
00:21:57.85\00:22:00.52
Okay, all right. Come on.
00:22:00.55\00:22:01.88
I say, Lord, let
Your will be done,
00:22:01.92\00:22:04.62
but I say, I got
to stick with Jesus,
00:22:04.65\00:22:06.22
there's nowhere
else for me to go.
00:22:06.25\00:22:07.82
Nowhere else.
00:22:07.86\00:22:09.19
And so I say, I have
HIV, I have Parkinson,
00:22:09.22\00:22:13.06
but God has brought me this far,
00:22:13.09\00:22:15.13
He can't let me down now.
00:22:15.16\00:22:16.50
That's right. That's right.
00:22:16.53\00:22:17.90
So, Wayne, you made
a powerful decision.
00:22:17.93\00:22:19.90
Somebody's been born
and raised in Florida,
00:22:19.93\00:22:22.14
you knew nothing else,
00:22:22.17\00:22:23.64
and then all of a
sudden you decided
00:22:23.67\00:22:25.01
that you needed to
move to the country.
00:22:25.04\00:22:26.71
Yes, I moved to Tennessee.
00:22:26.74\00:22:28.44
All right. Finally moved there.
00:22:28.48\00:22:32.55
Mike said, Wayne,
come and live with me,
00:22:32.58\00:22:37.15
and till you get
screened out, you know.
00:22:37.19\00:22:39.99
And so, after I
got to Tennessee,
00:22:40.02\00:22:41.86
I went to M.E.E.T.
00:22:41.89\00:22:43.22
Ministry for about 18
days of detox, you know.
00:22:43.26\00:22:47.60
Have everything, my
body and everything.
00:22:47.63\00:22:50.17
It was a healing time for me,
00:22:50.20\00:22:52.40
because God just moved
in such a way, you know.
00:22:52.43\00:22:56.27
I got the medic
care that I needed,
00:22:56.30\00:22:59.67
the help that I needed,
and everything just open up
00:22:59.71\00:23:05.78
that came through my disability.
00:23:05.81\00:23:08.78
People say, you
have to wait two years.
00:23:08.82\00:23:11.45
But I said, not if God has says,
00:23:11.49\00:23:14.26
God has the last word.
00:23:14.29\00:23:16.09
And I only waited a
couple months and got it.
00:23:16.12\00:23:18.79
Perfect, you know,
00:23:18.83\00:23:20.16
and so how God took
care of me up there,
00:23:20.20\00:23:22.73
you know, even though I was--
00:23:22.76\00:23:25.07
I just stepped out on faith.
00:23:25.10\00:23:27.04
I said, "Lord, I have no
job, nobody won't hire me,
00:23:27.07\00:23:29.97
because of my disability now."
00:23:30.01\00:23:31.91
And my tremors got
worse, which you saw that,
00:23:31.94\00:23:35.81
you know, until I got the help.
00:23:35.84\00:23:38.21
But you know what
else I saw, Wayne, is,
00:23:38.25\00:23:40.98
you know we've
had some pretty open,
00:23:41.02\00:23:43.39
you know,
conversations through the years.
00:23:43.42\00:23:45.52
I remember, there was one
time, you had some other friends
00:23:45.55\00:23:49.36
that were in different
stages of their experience,
00:23:49.39\00:23:52.33
and also the
history of homosexuality.
00:23:52.36\00:23:54.46
And there was one
Sabbath afternoon,
00:23:54.50\00:23:55.86
we were sitting
in my living room,
00:23:55.90\00:23:57.37
and we were
watching a videotape of this,
00:23:57.40\00:24:00.00
this brother that had
come out of homosexuality,
00:24:00.04\00:24:02.34
remember that?
00:24:02.37\00:24:03.71
And there were
probably six or seven of us
00:24:03.74\00:24:06.07
sitting in that circle.
00:24:06.11\00:24:07.81
And that was a first time
00:24:07.84\00:24:09.18
that I had heard a
story about somebody,
00:24:09.21\00:24:10.55
that it actually walked out
00:24:10.58\00:24:12.25
or walked away
from homosexuality.
00:24:12.28\00:24:14.38
And what was so
amazing to me is,
00:24:14.42\00:24:15.98
there were tears
coming down my face,
00:24:16.02\00:24:17.72
because I didn't
think it was possible.
00:24:17.75\00:24:19.55
I didn't even, I
wasn't even interested.
00:24:19.59\00:24:21.86
And as I saw this brother,
00:24:21.89\00:24:23.32
that had lived as a
woman for year and a half,
00:24:23.36\00:24:25.26
was about to have a sex change
00:24:25.29\00:24:27.06
and then is
redeemed by God, you know.
00:24:27.10\00:24:29.36
As we're sitting in that circle,
00:24:29.40\00:24:30.90
that was a first time I realize
00:24:30.93\00:24:32.73
that if God could do it for him,
00:24:32.77\00:24:34.84
then maybe he
could do it for me.
00:24:34.87\00:24:36.84
And I remember
that, we had this circle,
00:24:36.87\00:24:38.57
what was so beautiful is that,
00:24:38.61\00:24:40.18
we were all in
different understanding.
00:24:40.21\00:24:41.71
Some people were looking
for a monogamous relationship.
00:24:41.74\00:24:44.05
Others were looking to come out.
00:24:44.08\00:24:45.41
I was just plain,
sitting there just...
00:24:45.45\00:24:47.98
I had no idea what God had.
00:24:48.02\00:24:49.72
And you know what, that
began that journey for me
00:24:49.75\00:24:52.49
realizing that God had
much more in store for me
00:24:52.52\00:24:54.52
than I could imagine for myself.
00:24:54.56\00:24:56.66
And you know, Wayne,
you were part of that,
00:24:56.69\00:24:58.06
I remember, you know,
you used to work out a lot,
00:24:58.09\00:25:00.30
and you had big muscles,
00:25:00.33\00:25:01.66
and you would come
over in tank top and shorts,
00:25:01.70\00:25:04.00
and there was one brother
that just couldn't stop looking.
00:25:04.03\00:25:06.50
And we pulled you
aside and we said,
00:25:06.53\00:25:07.87
"Wayne, you got to cover up.
00:25:07.90\00:25:09.67
You got to cover up
those muscles, you know,
00:25:09.70\00:25:11.77
because you're
really causing this brother
00:25:11.81\00:25:13.17
to really struggle."
00:25:13.21\00:25:14.61
And that was when
I was also convicted
00:25:14.64\00:25:16.34
about covering my body.
00:25:16.38\00:25:18.05
You know, the Bible says
00:25:18.08\00:25:19.41
that we're holy vessel
to God, isn't that right?
00:25:19.45\00:25:21.52
Right.
00:25:21.55\00:25:22.88
And you know, you
said that, and I say,
00:25:22.92\00:25:27.49
"No, I'm not here for that,
00:25:27.52\00:25:29.22
I just got to
cover up, you know."
00:25:29.26\00:25:31.66
I start covering
up, because I fully--
00:25:31.69\00:25:34.66
I didn't believe, I said, "No,
00:25:34.70\00:25:37.00
I wasn't born
gay and I'm not gay."
00:25:37.03\00:25:38.80
So. That's right. That's right.
00:25:38.83\00:25:40.17
I'm not a gay
Christian, you know, so.
00:25:40.20\00:25:42.24
So, Wayne, I want to conclude,
00:25:42.27\00:25:43.61
and I want you
to tell me quickly
00:25:43.64\00:25:45.17
about how things
ended with your father.
00:25:45.21\00:25:47.84
He'd been out of your
life, most of your life,
00:25:47.88\00:25:49.78
and then all of a
sudden he was very sick
00:25:49.81\00:25:51.78
and you had an
opportunity to make amends.
00:25:51.81\00:25:54.22
The most beautiful
moment for me with my father
00:25:54.25\00:25:56.79
was that he got--
00:25:56.82\00:25:59.99
he was very sick,
00:26:00.02\00:26:01.36
he had brain
tumors on his brain,
00:26:01.39\00:26:03.53
when we found, when we finally
got him into the hospital.
00:26:03.56\00:26:06.73
And that I gave him
a bath in the hospital,
00:26:06.76\00:26:10.07
and that was
closest I ever felt to him.
00:26:10.10\00:26:12.90
The healing and
forgiveness right there
00:26:12.93\00:26:15.60
came for me and him.
00:26:15.64\00:26:18.11
Because I was
able to touch my father
00:26:18.14\00:26:21.71
and it took me back,
if I was that little boy,
00:26:21.74\00:26:25.38
I never had the experience
of my father picking me up,
00:26:25.41\00:26:28.98
holding me, or you
know like fathers do.
00:26:29.02\00:26:32.12
But during that time,
I just had that vision,
00:26:32.15\00:26:34.99
there I was.
00:26:35.02\00:26:36.36
My dad, and, but
I'm touching him,
00:26:36.39\00:26:38.73
giving him the bath, you know.
00:26:38.76\00:26:40.10
Yeah.
00:26:40.13\00:26:41.46
As he there on his
sick bed, and I just--
00:26:41.50\00:26:45.10
it was, I just
felt so much peace
00:26:45.13\00:26:48.60
and so much release, you know,
00:26:48.64\00:26:51.47
relief in my life
at that time, you know.
00:26:51.51\00:26:55.51
And my...
00:26:55.54\00:26:56.88
Talk to me
about the forgiveness.
00:26:56.91\00:26:59.11
The forgiveness?
00:26:59.15\00:27:00.48
I think that's so important
for our listeners to know.
00:27:00.52\00:27:02.68
The forgiveness
came, you know, I had no,
00:27:02.72\00:27:06.15
I wasn't angry about with him
00:27:06.19\00:27:09.12
about the way
my life turned out.
00:27:09.16\00:27:11.29
I wasn't upset, but I--
00:27:11.33\00:27:13.70
but when the forgiveness
came for me at that time.
00:27:13.73\00:27:17.17
So much peace
from God that I may--
00:27:17.20\00:27:21.54
to forgive him so,
it brought me healing
00:27:21.57\00:27:25.07
in order to have that from him.
00:27:25.11\00:27:26.88
Powerful.
00:27:26.91\00:27:28.64
Wayne, that's so powerful.
00:27:28.68\00:27:30.01
This is why I
felt it's so important
00:27:30.05\00:27:32.18
to share your story
with Coming Out Ministries.
00:27:32.21\00:27:34.58
And this is your fourth time
00:27:34.62\00:27:35.98
that you've given
your testimony in public.
00:27:36.02\00:27:38.75
Wayne's a very private person,
00:27:38.79\00:27:40.16
and so to have
you share that story
00:27:40.19\00:27:42.09
and to talk
about the full picture
00:27:42.12\00:27:43.73
of your father's little child.
00:27:43.76\00:27:45.79
And then coming
all the way to the end
00:27:45.83\00:27:47.83
and finding forgiveness
00:27:47.86\00:27:49.20
even though your father
wasn't a part of your life
00:27:49.23\00:27:51.27
during that time.
00:27:51.30\00:27:52.63
Isn't God amazing
00:27:52.67\00:27:54.00
how He gives us
those opportunities
00:27:54.04\00:27:55.77
to find that
healing in those situations.
00:27:55.80\00:28:01.11
Come back and join us
again for Pure Choices.
00:28:01.14\00:28:03.65
Thank you.
00:28:03.68\00:28:05.01