The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Welcome to Pure Choices.
My name is Mike Carducci.
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And I'm here with Ron Woolsey.
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And we're the co-directors
of Coming Out Ministries.
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And today our program is going
to be about The Gay Wedding.
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One of the questions
that we get quite often,
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almost every time
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that we have a Q and
A in our presentations
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is should I attend my son
or my friend's gay wedding.
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So we want to talk about
that in our program today.
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Welcome, Ron. Thank you.
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All right.
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So basically we
want to start off
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with a little bit of foundation
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about the whole gay
agenda, the gay issue.
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So if you could,
Ron, help us understand
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how the gay movement
got the minority status
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and what the minority status is?
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Well, you know,
Mike, in my lifetime
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I've seen the gay issue advance
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from first just being
tolerated to being accepted,
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from being
accepted to being celebrated
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and promoted.
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We have a lot of
legislation going on now.
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But back in the mid
'80s the political branch,
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the political activism branch
of the gay movement decided
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it was time to go
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for a higher
level of acceptance.
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There seems to
never be any satisfaction
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with whatever comes their way.
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And so they
wanted minority status
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which is a privilege status.
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And I looked up some
information about that.
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And according to
the Civil Rights Act
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it recognizes minority
status only for those groups
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who meet three criteria,
number one, they have suffered
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a long history
of discrimination.
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Number two, they are powerless
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to help
themselves as a community
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and number three,
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interestingly is that
they are born that way.
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So we read that the
legalization of sodomy
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by way of minority status
is the secret to understanding
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why gay activists
adopted the strategy claiming
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that people are born gay.
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In other words,
this is kind of a hoax
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that has been
perpetrated upon society.
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You know, it's interesting, Ron,
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having come from
gay culture both of us.
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And I remember watching
Ellen DeGeneres come out
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on television, you know
had a huge dinner party.
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And I remember
that we celebrated,
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I remember feeling
entitled to minority status
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because of all of those
points that you just brought up.
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One of the things
that I think is important
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is that I think that
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there are genuine
people that believe that.
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However, explain a
little bit more about
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what this movement
has become if you would?
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Well, there's been
a great push to gain
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the legalization of marriage.
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And back in, well, last year
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there was a Supreme Court case
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that I think most people know
about the US Supreme Court case
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called Obergefell versus Hodges.
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And again I'm
looking at some notes
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that I have taken here.
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It's not the
culmination of just one lawsuit,
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instead it is the
result of a consolidation
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of a six lower court cases
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originally representing
16 same sex couples,
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seven of their children,
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a widower and adoption
agency and a funeral director.
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And these original cases
come from four different states,
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Michigan, Ohio,
Kentucky and Tennessee.
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All six of the
federal district courts ruled
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for the same sex couples ruled
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in their favor
and other claimants,
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and these rulings
were then appealed
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to the higher court.
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So on April 28 last year,
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this went before
the Supreme Court
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of the United States that heard
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the oral arguments over whether
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or not gay marriage
is a right guaranteed
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by the US Constitution.
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And whether or not gay marriages
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performed in states
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where it has been legalized
must be recognized in states
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which ban gay marriages.
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Then a couple months
later on June 26 of last year,
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the court ruled five
to four that gay marriage
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is a
constitutional right meaning
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that all 50
states must allow it,
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that all existing
bans are now invalid.
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And the decision concluded
this decade's long battle
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over whether gay
marriage should be legalized.
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Now that Chief
Justice Roberts came out
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with a dissent and he
criticized the majority,
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and I think this
is rather interesting
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what he said,
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he criticized the majority
for ordering, for ordering
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the transformation
of a social institution
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that has formed
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the basis of human
society for millennia,
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for the Kalahari
bushmen and the Han Chinese,
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the
Carthaginians and the Aztecs.
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And then he goes on to say
just who do we think we are.
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Interesting. Wow.
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You know, it's
interesting to note
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that since that
decision was made
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in June of 2015
that there have been
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over 100, 000
same sex marriages now.
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So, Ron, I want to move
a little bit and discuss
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what ramifications
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that has on the
Christian Church.
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Well, we are actually
following in the footsteps
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of some other
countries like Canada
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and other countries in Europe.
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And so potentially
in the United States
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as we're seeing in
some of the other countries,
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license must respect
license and we're seeing this,
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I think Denmark is
one of these countries.
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So in other words,
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if a gay couple is
granted a license to marry,
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and a pastor has a license
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from the government
to practice ministry,
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and the church is licensed,
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then license
must respect license.
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So if a gay
couple comes requesting
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with a license to be married,
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a licensed minister
must respect that license.
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He cannot say no and
he must allow his church
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to be used as well.
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So what we have here developing
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is a showdown
between church and state.
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And really a test of religion,
a religious freedom is brewing.
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And we know in
the closing scenes
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of this earth's history,
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religious freedom is
going to be annulled.
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Every principle of
the US Constitution
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will be repudiated by
the time it's all over.
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And this to me is
a head start. Right.
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It's interesting to note
that a lot of Christian churches
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are accepting
homosexual membership
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and leadership
in their churches.
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And so, for a pastor,
for a licensed pastor,
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should they be respecting
this license of gays to marry
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and should they agree
to perform gay weddings?
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Well, this really
is also a potential,
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has the potential of
being a real test for Christians
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as to their
loyalty to the Creator
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who, you know, created
marriage in the first place
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as a loyalty to His perfect law.
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You know, as Christians
we should respect marriage
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as a sacred institution,
as one of two institutions
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that come to us out
of the Garden of Eden.
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Twin institutions,
both of them are sacred.
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So there are
various criteria governing
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how pastors can
conduct weddings,
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at least in our denomination.
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For example, the Bible says
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we're not to be unequally
yoked together with unbelievers.
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It is our practice
in our denomination,
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and I am a pastor
and as a pastor we don't,
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we don't marry people
of two different faiths.
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I mean, of our denomination
and another denomination.
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We believe they
should be equally yoked.
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And also, we believe
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that that marriage
should be in harmony
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with our biblical
understanding of marriage.
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And if we are
performing a wedding,
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the members of this
marriage need to be in harmony
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with the tenets of our
faith with, as we understand,
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you know, from our understanding
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of the Bible.
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Sure. Okay.
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So basically what you're saying
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is making the Bible the
standard of our practices
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in the church in
regards to gay weddings.
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Here again we
have a showdown coming.
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Our minister is going to give
in to political correctness,
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conventional
thinking and even legislation.
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And in doing so go
against their own convictions,
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their beliefs,
their Bible understanding
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and their religion.
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Wow. Okay.
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So should the church
facility be accommodating
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to gay weddings?
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And if not, how can
the church get around it?
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Well, again, you know,
as Christians we believe
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that God's law trumps man's law.
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And the higher law
always trumps the lower law.
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And throughout our own society,
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in our country we see
laws that are conflicting
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with the higher law
which is our US Constitution.
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And when you have
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this conflict between a
lower law and a higher law,
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the safest path
is to always follow
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the higher law.
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And so when we understand
that God's law is higher
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than even the US
Constitution then...
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And so far I don't see,
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I'm not a constitutional
professor or an expert,
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but I don't see
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that our constitution in
any way violates God's law.
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But should it violate God's law,
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then we as Christians
are duty bound out of loyalty
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to God to follow His law.
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So where churches are
concern and our facilities,
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these are places of worship,
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worshipping the true God
in harmony with His will.
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And we know how God feels
biblically about homosexuality.
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And so, we need in my estimation
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to not allow this perversion
of this sacred institution
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to be taking place in
our places of worship.
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It's like
bringing in the olden days
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bringing
idolatry into the temple.
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God had a real problem
with bringing perverted worship
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into His temple
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and any kind of
perversion into the temple.
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And as Christians we
need to respect God's feelings
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in this way.
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It's interesting, Ron,
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because you know
coming out of gay culture
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for both of us that
it came with sacrifice.
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There were many things
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that we both had to turn
away from to come out of that.
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It's interesting
because there's definitely
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a strong
promotion of homosexuality
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in the Christian faith now.
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And so, how
difficult is that going to be
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now that we
have the court system
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actually
supporting gay marriage?
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It may turn out
to be very difficult,
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but when we read in
the Bible in Revelation 13,
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there's going to be a
final test for God's people.
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And it has to do with worship,
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it has to do
with the law of God.
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And I believe
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that we're privileged actually
to have a pretest to see
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if we're ready
for the final test.
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I believe that Satan is
testing God's people to see
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if they will be loyal on
one of the Ten Commandments
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or the law of God all together.
00:12:26.31\00:12:28.91
So the way I see Satan working
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is that if he can
successfully redefine marriage
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through
legislation on a global basis
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in violation of one
of God's commandments,
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then he can
successfully redefine
00:12:43.36\00:12:46.13
any one of the Ten Commandments
00:12:46.16\00:12:48.06
through
legislation on a global basis.
00:12:48.10\00:12:50.67
And as Seventh-day Adventist
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we are concerned about
that Fourth Commandment,
00:12:52.93\00:12:55.57
but it could be any
commandment as Satan
00:12:55.60\00:12:57.87
successfully
redefines points of God's law,
00:12:57.91\00:13:01.68
then he knows he
can go full steam ahead.
00:13:01.71\00:13:05.61
On the other hand,
00:13:05.65\00:13:07.82
I see God
testing His people too.
00:13:07.85\00:13:10.49
Are My people ready
for this final test?
00:13:10.52\00:13:13.25
So let's see,
yes. Hang on, hang on.
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I want you to go
back a little bit
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and elaborate a little bit
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more about the twin institutions
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because I don't know
00:13:19.89\00:13:21.23
that you divided them up
and made them very clear.
00:13:21.26\00:13:24.63
On the sixth day of
creation, God created marriage.
00:13:24.67\00:13:27.84
And within that marriage
He laid out the ground rules,
00:13:27.87\00:13:31.81
He defined what it was for
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that man is to
leave father and mother
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and join himself,
cleaved to his wife.
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They two shall be one flesh.
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That institution is
sacred and it was created
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just the day before the Sabbath
00:13:44.95\00:13:48.49
which is now in
the heart of God's law
00:13:48.52\00:13:50.93
in the Fourth Commandment.
00:13:50.96\00:13:52.39
And so we see
00:13:52.43\00:13:53.90
that God is
testing His people too.
00:13:53.93\00:13:56.83
Will we be
willing to stand faithful
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over the Seventh Commandment
00:13:59.13\00:14:01.54
which is not the
final test for God's people.
00:14:01.57\00:14:04.11
But according to Luke 17
00:14:04.14\00:14:05.71
we know that as it
was in the days of Lot,
00:14:05.74\00:14:09.44
it will be the
same way in the day
00:14:09.48\00:14:11.05
that the Son of Man
shall appear or be revealed.
00:14:11.08\00:14:13.75
So this is a part of the testing
00:14:13.78\00:14:16.58
before the coming of Jesus.
00:14:16.62\00:14:18.45
And God is testing
to see, are we ready,
00:14:18.49\00:14:20.59
are we willing to
lose our tax exempt status,
00:14:20.62\00:14:23.73
our government
funding, our accreditation,
00:14:23.76\00:14:27.53
are we willing to stand faithful
00:14:27.56\00:14:29.06
for God's law
though the heavens fall.
00:14:29.10\00:14:32.50
And if so, then I think
God is saying okay, it's time,
00:14:32.53\00:14:36.87
My people are
ready for the final test.
00:14:36.91\00:14:38.81
Wow.
00:14:38.84\00:14:40.18
So these twin institutions,
it's interesting because,
00:14:40.21\00:14:42.74
you know, we've always heard
the story that when one twin
00:14:42.78\00:14:45.35
is affected that the
other one feels it, right?
00:14:45.38\00:14:48.02
If one twin gets hurt,
the other one feels it.
00:14:48.05\00:14:50.09
And so I think it's important
to realize the potential
00:14:50.12\00:14:54.72
of when one is affected,
the next one is sure to come.
00:14:54.76\00:14:58.03
And so we know that
through Bible prophecy
00:14:58.06\00:14:59.96
and it's amazing to me,
00:15:00.00\00:15:01.96
I'm still amazed
that God was so merciful
00:15:02.00\00:15:04.87
even to us to help
show us that light,
00:15:04.90\00:15:07.90
to help bring us out
because I never thought
00:15:07.94\00:15:10.21
that I would
ever be sitting here
00:15:10.24\00:15:11.97
having this
discussion with someone else.
00:15:12.01\00:15:13.64
I thought that
00:15:13.68\00:15:15.01
I would totally be on that side,
00:15:15.04\00:15:16.38
I've been in gay pride marches,
I have marched on Washington
00:15:16.41\00:15:19.61
when President
Clinton was elected.
00:15:19.65\00:15:21.82
These would have been the things
00:15:21.85\00:15:23.18
that I would have celebrated.
00:15:23.22\00:15:24.55
And now, you know
having come back to God,
00:15:24.59\00:15:27.26
it's very different for us now.
00:15:27.29\00:15:29.66
And you know, Mike, we
as Christians don't need
00:15:29.69\00:15:32.33
to be frustrated and discouraged
00:15:32.36\00:15:35.30
by what we see happening.
00:15:35.33\00:15:37.27
We are to lift up
our heads and rejoice,
00:15:37.30\00:15:38.93
the coming of Jesus is near.
00:15:38.97\00:15:41.34
And we are to
stand faithful to God
00:15:41.37\00:15:44.41
when we see God's
law being challenged
00:15:44.44\00:15:46.47
and being violated,
00:15:46.51\00:15:48.08
but we don't need to get
down and out and discouraged
00:15:48.11\00:15:51.88
because these
things must take place.
00:15:51.91\00:15:54.48
So as we are standing against
00:15:54.52\00:15:56.48
this whole idea
of the perversion
00:15:56.52\00:15:58.79
of this institution of marriage,
00:15:58.82\00:16:01.59
we can also rejoice
that Jesus is coming soon.
00:16:01.62\00:16:04.79
Amen.
00:16:04.83\00:16:06.16
So, Ron, what I want to do now
00:16:06.19\00:16:07.53
is I want to reach
out to maybe parents
00:16:07.56\00:16:10.37
or siblings that may be watching
00:16:10.40\00:16:12.93
that are, you
know, really discouraged
00:16:12.97\00:16:15.97
or even confused about,
00:16:16.00\00:16:17.67
should they attend
their gay son's wedding
00:16:17.71\00:16:20.01
or to their
brother, sister's wedding.
00:16:20.04\00:16:22.01
And I've been to
other gay weddings
00:16:22.04\00:16:24.81
when I was in gay
culture and thought,
00:16:24.85\00:16:26.72
you know, to myself,
"Well, what's the difference.
00:16:26.75\00:16:29.22
You know if I just
want to show them love
00:16:29.25\00:16:31.22
and even though
00:16:31.25\00:16:32.59
I may not support
their gay marriage.
00:16:32.62\00:16:35.16
Would my
attendance be considered hate
00:16:35.19\00:16:39.09
if I don't go, even
though I love my brother,
00:16:39.13\00:16:42.16
my sister or my son or daughter,
00:16:42.20\00:16:44.97
what would you
respond to somebody asking
00:16:45.00\00:16:47.80
that question, should they go.
00:16:47.84\00:16:49.44
And this does seem
to be quite a conundrum
00:16:49.47\00:16:52.67
even within the
Christian leadership.
00:16:52.71\00:16:55.18
And I read statements
00:16:55.21\00:16:56.54
where they are trying to address
00:16:56.58\00:16:58.71
this issue in a
godly, compassionate,
00:16:58.75\00:17:02.32
understanding way.
00:17:02.35\00:17:04.75
But I see mistakes being made
because it's being suggested
00:17:04.79\00:17:09.12
that this is a...
00:17:09.16\00:17:10.49
Should be a personal matter,
00:17:10.53\00:17:12.46
it's up to everyone
to decide for himself.
00:17:12.49\00:17:15.26
And that is true,
however having been there,
00:17:15.30\00:17:18.63
you and I had been on
the other side of this issue,
00:17:18.67\00:17:21.90
having been there we see things
00:17:21.94\00:17:23.61
a little bit
differently sometimes.
00:17:23.64\00:17:25.11
And I think God uses
our experience to help us
00:17:25.14\00:17:27.98
really discern
00:17:28.01\00:17:29.34
the significance
of such a situation.
00:17:29.38\00:17:32.65
And really as Christians
I strongly urge Christians
00:17:32.68\00:17:37.32
to rethink this whole issue.
00:17:37.35\00:17:40.46
This is a sacred institution.
It is being terribly perverted.
00:17:40.49\00:17:45.36
And to go to a
gay wedding is similar
00:17:45.39\00:17:49.93
to when the three Hebrews
were in the plain of Dura,
00:17:49.96\00:17:52.87
they were forced to attend
00:17:52.90\00:17:55.00
that celebration
and that worship,
00:17:55.04\00:17:57.61
but had they bowed
they could have said,
00:17:57.64\00:18:00.28
"Well, we're
praying to our own God."
00:18:00.31\00:18:02.44
But what would have
been the appearance,
00:18:02.48\00:18:04.75
no one would have known that.
00:18:04.78\00:18:06.78
And so, if we as
Christians attend
00:18:06.82\00:18:09.25
a gay wedding, no one
will know that we disapprove.
00:18:09.28\00:18:14.32
Our very presence
is adding credibility
00:18:14.36\00:18:17.63
to this ceremony
00:18:17.66\00:18:18.99
which is a perversion of
something God calls sacred,
00:18:19.03\00:18:22.46
God calls the gay
behavior abomination.
00:18:22.50\00:18:28.40
We should be very, very careful
about lending our presence,
00:18:28.44\00:18:32.47
our blessing, our
affirmation to something
00:18:32.51\00:18:36.54
that God so clearly has labeled
as an affront to Himself.
00:18:36.58\00:18:40.68
So can I stop you for a second
00:18:40.72\00:18:42.05
because I think it
merits clarification
00:18:42.08\00:18:45.75
is while the
Bible does not condemn
00:18:45.79\00:18:47.66
the homosexual, it
condemns the behavior.
00:18:47.69\00:18:49.92
Yes.
00:18:49.96\00:18:51.29
So a gay union would
be blessing the behavior.
00:18:51.33\00:18:54.96
Right. Okay. All right.
00:18:55.00\00:18:56.33
And we would be
adding credibility
00:18:56.36\00:18:58.67
to that by attending that.
00:18:58.70\00:19:01.30
Right. Yes.
00:19:01.34\00:19:02.90
That's interesting.
00:19:02.94\00:19:04.27
You know, it's kind
of neutral basically
00:19:04.31\00:19:06.88
when people would ask me
this question and it wasn't
00:19:06.91\00:19:08.71
until you
explained the difference
00:19:08.74\00:19:12.41
that it really
started to open my eyes
00:19:12.45\00:19:14.32
about attending a gay wedding.
00:19:14.35\00:19:15.98
So let's take an
example, you have gay parents,
00:19:16.02\00:19:19.85
I'm sorry, you have
parents of a gay person
00:19:19.89\00:19:22.72
and they've now sent you
an invitation to their wedding
00:19:22.76\00:19:26.29
and your gay son is
going to marry his lover
00:19:26.33\00:19:29.13
and they've invited you to come.
00:19:29.16\00:19:31.07
How can you show the
balance of love and compassion
00:19:31.10\00:19:35.47
without compromise, Ron?
00:19:35.50\00:19:37.34
And this is such an
important question, Mike,
00:19:37.37\00:19:39.27
because parents
are in terrible dilemma
00:19:39.31\00:19:41.21
as I talked to a couple recently
00:19:41.24\00:19:45.48
where the
father stood his ground
00:19:45.51\00:19:48.45
and did not attend the wedding
00:19:48.48\00:19:49.95
but the mother all
caught up in the emotion
00:19:49.98\00:19:52.49
and being the mother,
00:19:52.52\00:19:53.86
she didn't condone
the wedding but she felt,
00:19:53.89\00:19:56.73
she just had to
be there for her son.
00:19:56.76\00:19:59.29
And then they both
called and they were both,
00:19:59.33\00:20:02.26
she was terribly remorseful
00:20:02.30\00:20:03.80
because she felt she
had betrayed her Lord
00:20:03.83\00:20:06.40
in standing with her son.
00:20:06.43\00:20:09.17
But I had
another family contact me
00:20:09.20\00:20:13.54
and we talked a long
time about this issue.
00:20:13.58\00:20:16.54
And here's what they chose to do
00:20:16.58\00:20:18.21
after our conversation,
00:20:18.25\00:20:19.58
and I think it is
such a good example
00:20:19.61\00:20:22.52
of how we as Christians can deal
00:20:22.55\00:20:24.65
with this because we are
to be loving and compassionate
00:20:24.69\00:20:27.66
but not to
compromise on God's principles.
00:20:27.69\00:20:31.06
So their son was getting married
00:20:31.09\00:20:33.80
in California
00:20:33.83\00:20:35.16
and the parents
lived where I live.
00:20:35.20\00:20:38.37
And they decided
00:20:38.40\00:20:40.04
that they would
fly out to California
00:20:40.07\00:20:43.00
before the wedding
00:20:43.04\00:20:44.54
and they spent a
whole week out there
00:20:44.57\00:20:46.57
visiting their
son and his partner
00:20:46.61\00:20:49.41
and they loved
them, they went to dinner,
00:20:49.44\00:20:52.08
they went, they did all
kinds of things together
00:20:52.11\00:20:54.88
on a secular level.
00:20:54.92\00:20:56.45
This is what Jesus did,
Mike, He mingled with sinners
00:20:56.48\00:21:00.29
but He never
participated in the sin
00:21:00.32\00:21:03.12
or participated in a
service that would condone
00:21:03.16\00:21:06.03
or as show
acceptance of that sin.
00:21:06.06\00:21:10.27
So they were out there
00:21:10.30\00:21:11.63
on the outside of
the sacred ceremony,
00:21:11.67\00:21:14.14
spent a lot of time with
their son and his partner,
00:21:14.17\00:21:16.97
they did not go to the wedding,
they stayed till afterwards,
00:21:17.01\00:21:20.31
they did not go to the reception
00:21:20.34\00:21:22.01
but they stayed another
week and spent more time.
00:21:22.04\00:21:24.98
So they were, they were excited
00:21:25.01\00:21:27.92
when they came
home because they said,
00:21:27.95\00:21:30.19
you know, our son
was not able to say
00:21:30.22\00:21:32.65
we were too cheap to
come to this to see him
00:21:32.69\00:21:35.79
and he could not say
we didn't love him enough
00:21:35.82\00:21:38.59
because we spent much more time
00:21:38.63\00:21:41.40
with him
outside of the ceremony.
00:21:41.43\00:21:44.03
Loving, and understanding,
and being compassionate,
00:21:44.07\00:21:47.07
and having a
wonderful time together
00:21:47.10\00:21:49.20
outside of the perversion
of a sacred institution.
00:21:49.24\00:21:52.74
And I thought that
was a very good example
00:21:52.77\00:21:54.74
of how to handle this.
00:21:54.78\00:21:56.11
We can be loving
and compassionate
00:21:56.14\00:21:58.58
without
compromising our principles.
00:21:58.61\00:22:01.72
That's great explanation.
00:22:01.75\00:22:03.08
And that really
helped me to understand,
00:22:03.12\00:22:04.99
I remember a situation
where parents came up to us
00:22:05.02\00:22:09.26
where we were presenting.
00:22:09.29\00:22:10.73
And the father said
00:22:10.76\00:22:12.09
that he refused to
have anything to do
00:22:12.13\00:22:14.36
with his daughter
until she came to her senses
00:22:14.40\00:22:16.97
and came out of
this relationship.
00:22:17.00\00:22:18.77
And what was so
heartbreaking to me
00:22:18.80\00:22:20.30
was this father
loved his daughter,
00:22:20.34\00:22:22.14
he was tearful
00:22:22.17\00:22:23.61
when he was even
explaining his stand on that.
00:22:23.64\00:22:26.74
And he said that his
daughter and her partner
00:22:26.78\00:22:30.61
had also adopted three children.
00:22:30.65\00:22:33.01
So now here's
three young children,
00:22:33.05\00:22:35.25
you know, in this relationship
00:22:35.28\00:22:36.89
and it certainly
wasn't their fault
00:22:36.92\00:22:38.65
and they, you could cite
them just as much as a victim,
00:22:38.69\00:22:41.82
you know, in this situation.
00:22:41.86\00:22:43.19
And so here's a
man who loves God,
00:22:43.22\00:22:45.63
who wants to serve God
00:22:45.66\00:22:47.00
but he'll have nothing
to do with his daughter
00:22:47.03\00:22:48.56
until she comes to her senses.
00:22:48.60\00:22:50.03
So he thought that he
was doing the right thing
00:22:50.07\00:22:52.83
and yet I thought to
myself in my response to him,
00:22:52.87\00:22:56.37
how does that
show the love of Jesus.
00:22:56.40\00:22:57.97
Exactly.
00:22:58.01\00:22:59.34
And then I think
about those three children,
00:22:59.37\00:23:02.04
you know, that they don't have
00:23:02.08\00:23:04.28
an example of what a
Christian man looks like.
00:23:04.31\00:23:07.82
And so I
presented to him, I said,
00:23:07.85\00:23:09.92
how is that going against
the Word of God to even say,
00:23:09.95\00:23:14.52
listen, let me take
the kids for the weekend,
00:23:14.56\00:23:16.62
you know, why is
that compromising
00:23:16.66\00:23:18.53
God's Word to make an
investment in the lives
00:23:18.56\00:23:21.20
of those three
children and show them
00:23:21.23\00:23:22.96
what a godly man looks like.
00:23:23.00\00:23:25.20
And also in an effort to
win your daughter's heart,
00:23:25.23\00:23:27.60
you know, the Bible says
00:23:27.64\00:23:28.97
that a little
child shall lead them
00:23:29.00\00:23:30.51
and so what if while this father
00:23:30.54\00:23:32.91
had those children with him
00:23:32.94\00:23:35.28
that he was able
to share with them
00:23:35.31\00:23:36.64
who Jesus was in
the Bible stories.
00:23:36.68\00:23:38.71
And imagine the
impact that that could have
00:23:38.75\00:23:40.32
when those
children went home again.
00:23:40.35\00:23:42.35
And again, one of the things
that really worked for us, Ron,
00:23:42.38\00:23:45.59
was not somebody,
00:23:45.62\00:23:47.22
you know, shouting at
us about how homosexuality
00:23:47.26\00:23:51.46
is against God and all this
00:23:51.49\00:23:53.63
but when somebody was
just lifting up Jesus,
00:23:53.66\00:23:56.87
how that impressed us,
how that drew us to them.
00:23:56.90\00:23:59.77
And so rather than making
the focus about my lifestyle
00:23:59.80\00:24:02.47
or who I'm living
with or who I'm married to.
00:24:02.50\00:24:04.77
Imagine the power that this man
00:24:04.81\00:24:06.27
would have if he
invested in his daughter's life
00:24:06.31\00:24:09.24
not in a way to
condone their behavior
00:24:09.28\00:24:12.05
but in a way to be redemptive
not only to his daughter
00:24:12.08\00:24:14.98
but her partner and then
also to those children as well.
00:24:15.02\00:24:17.89
Yes.
00:24:17.92\00:24:19.25
And we know that the
most powerful witness
00:24:19.29\00:24:20.86
for truth is a loving
and lovable Christian.
00:24:20.89\00:24:24.53
And how can you be that
00:24:24.56\00:24:26.03
if you isolate yourself
from those that you love?
00:24:26.06\00:24:30.73
We do not have to compromise
our principles to be involved
00:24:30.77\00:24:34.90
in the life of these,
our family and our friends.
00:24:34.94\00:24:38.51
You know, it's, it is going
to be a very difficult time.
00:24:38.54\00:24:41.51
I believe it's already starting,
00:24:41.54\00:24:43.68
how is it that we can
still be compassionate
00:24:43.71\00:24:46.78
to this community.
00:24:46.82\00:24:48.58
You know, people
say that we're haters.
00:24:48.62\00:24:50.59
How can we hate homosexuals
when that's where we came from,
00:24:50.62\00:24:53.86
we have, we have friends,
00:24:53.89\00:24:55.22
we have exes that are
still in that lifestyle.
00:24:55.26\00:24:58.46
It breaks my heart to think
00:24:58.49\00:25:00.00
that that they
don't have an opportunity
00:25:00.03\00:25:03.06
to know who Jesus is.
00:25:03.10\00:25:04.67
And I know that for
me, one of the things
00:25:04.70\00:25:06.33
that was really the
most powerful was somebody
00:25:06.37\00:25:08.74
who really lived,
00:25:08.77\00:25:10.34
you know, a Christ like
life that didn't compromise,
00:25:10.37\00:25:13.58
but on the same side it
ministered to me in a way
00:25:13.61\00:25:16.78
that wasn't,
00:25:16.81\00:25:18.31
that wasn't
directed at my sexuality,
00:25:18.35\00:25:20.32
but instead was
directed at my spirituality
00:25:20.35\00:25:23.45
and my need of Christ.
00:25:23.49\00:25:24.82
Right.
00:25:24.85\00:25:26.39
So, Ron, we have just
a couple more minutes.
00:25:26.42\00:25:28.46
Do you have anything
00:25:28.49\00:25:29.82
that you'd like to
share as we conclude?
00:25:29.86\00:25:32.09
Yes.
00:25:32.13\00:25:33.46
I just like the question,
00:25:33.50\00:25:35.06
what would Jesus do in
this type of situation?
00:25:35.10\00:25:38.00
Well, we have an
example of what Jesus would do.
00:25:38.03\00:25:40.87
He blessed a
wedding with His presence,
00:25:40.90\00:25:44.11
a wedding that was
conducted in harmony
00:25:44.14\00:25:47.11
with what He created
in the Garden of Eden.
00:25:47.14\00:25:50.25
So He condoned, He
blessed with His presence.
00:25:50.28\00:25:54.48
And at the reception
they ran out of the wine
00:25:54.52\00:25:59.59
and He performed
His first miracle there.
00:25:59.62\00:26:01.86
What a wedding gift to
this new bride and groom.
00:26:01.89\00:26:07.03
And so He
performed that first miracle,
00:26:07.06\00:26:09.43
we know how He feels about
this marriage that He created.
00:26:09.46\00:26:13.37
He even said
Himself, He reiterated
00:26:13.40\00:26:16.27
that a man should
leave his father and mother
00:26:16.30\00:26:19.17
and cleave unto his wife,
they both should become one.
00:26:19.21\00:26:22.74
But it's hard for me to imagine
00:26:22.78\00:26:25.98
that Jesus would
attend a gay wedding
00:26:26.01\00:26:29.25
and bless a gay
wedding in the same way
00:26:29.28\00:26:32.22
because He doesn't change,
00:26:32.25\00:26:34.49
He's expressed very
plainly through His Word
00:26:34.52\00:26:37.16
how He feels about
00:26:37.19\00:26:38.69
this perversion of
the beautiful thing
00:26:38.73\00:26:40.90
He created in
the Garden of Eden.
00:26:40.93\00:26:43.77
So I don't believe,
00:26:43.80\00:26:45.93
I cannot picture in my
mind Jesus doing the same thing
00:26:45.97\00:26:49.47
at a gay wedding and blessing
00:26:49.50\00:26:51.41
that with such a beautiful gift
00:26:51.44\00:26:54.11
as His presence and miracles.
00:26:54.14\00:26:57.81
You know, I had an
opportunity at a place
00:26:57.85\00:27:00.52
that I was presenting to,
actually meet a gay couple
00:27:00.55\00:27:03.55
that had actually found the Lord
00:27:03.59\00:27:06.32
and decided that on their own,
00:27:06.35\00:27:08.09
through their own Bible study
that this was not in agreement
00:27:08.12\00:27:10.73
with God's Word
and they separated.
00:27:10.76\00:27:12.83
So even the power of God's
Word has a convicting influence
00:27:12.86\00:27:17.57
but also a
drawing influence as well.
00:27:17.60\00:27:20.44
I think it's important to
note that even at the first,
00:27:20.47\00:27:23.51
the wedding where Jesus attended
00:27:23.54\00:27:24.94
that was where He
performed His first miracle
00:27:24.97\00:27:27.78
to bless and sanctify
the institution of marriage.
00:27:27.81\00:27:30.85
So thanks, Ron, for helping
to unpack this timely issue
00:27:30.88\00:27:35.52
about whether we as Christians
00:27:35.55\00:27:37.62
should be attending
the gay wedding or not.
00:27:37.65\00:27:40.06
I think that a lot
of people are struggling
00:27:40.09\00:27:42.82
with their position on that
00:27:42.86\00:27:44.33
and how to move
forward to still show
00:27:44.36\00:27:46.16
the love of
Jesus in that process.
00:27:46.19\00:27:48.16
Right. All right.
00:27:48.20\00:27:49.53
So thank you for joining us here
00:27:49.56\00:27:50.90
on Pure Choices.
00:27:50.93\00:27:52.27
And stay tuned,
there be many more programs
00:27:52.30\00:27:55.20
that you're going to enjoy.
00:27:55.24\00:27:56.64
Thanks again, Ron. Yes, thanks.
00:27:56.67\00:27:58.27