The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Hello, welcome to Pure Choices.
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I'm your host
Pastor Joshua Nelson.
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So glad you
decided to join us today.
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We are doing a part two
on our Loving the Community.
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We're continuing
our topic and discussing
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the community of
the LGBTQIA community
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and talking about
how we should address
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and love that community.
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But before we begin on this
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or continue
with this discussion,
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let us bow for
another moment of prayer.
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Heavenly Father God, we
just ask that your spirit
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would be with us and
guide this discussion
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in Jesus' name we pray, Amen.
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Amen.
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Let's introduce our panel.
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To my left, I have
Pastor K P Douglas,
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a pastor in Southeast Missouri.
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Good to have you, my brother.
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His wife will be
here on the couch,
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a scholar in our own right.
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Kimberly Douglas,
good to have you here.
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Next to her, we
have the Morales family,
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Brittany and Xavier.
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So glad that you
both are here with us
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to continue this
discussion that we had before.
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And just to kind of
summarize what we talked about
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in our last
program, we talked about
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really first being
sympathetic trying to understand
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the community and understanding
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what they may be feeling.
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And we also
talked about how we feel.
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And many of us stated
that we are very ignorant
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or very unsure about
really how they are feeling
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or how to address this subject.
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And so we talked about that,
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we also talked
about the biblical stance.
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And we made it clear
that the Bible does talk
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against
fornication and talks about
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that there are things
that we should be careful with
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especially in terms of
judgment, God says to us
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about those who
are sexually immoral.
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And so we want to
go a little further
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and a little deeper and unlock
some more answers and questions
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that we may have and
discuss this even more
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and use some biblical
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and spiritual
prophecy parameters
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to help us and
guide our discussion.
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We did finish off before
talk and I asked the question
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about does God changes mind.
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And I ask that because we know
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that originally God created
Adam and Eve in the garden.
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He made male and
female to reproduce
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and populate the earth.
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He created them,
that was the image of God,
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and we find that
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that's pretty clear in the Bible
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that was the original design.
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But does God change
His mind and change the way
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that He classifies things
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based on the culture of the day?
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Does He change how
things maybe should be
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to how things
are and how things,
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He just
tolerate things and says,
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"Well, it's okay to do."
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Does He change His mind?
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So I want to go a little deeper
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and look at some
specific instances
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where people may say,
"Hey, that story or that verse
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proves that God
change His mind."
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And let's talk about
what that really means.
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So I'll start off
with Pastor Douglas,
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you want to start off?
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If you want me to do.
Okay, and then we'll go...
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Unless when I
supposed to take you.
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Go ahead then.
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But I know that
people talk a lot
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about the story of
Jonah were God sends Jonah
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to Nineveh and, you
know, He basically sends
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what a message of judgment like,
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"You're going to be destroyed."
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But at the end of the
story, even Jonah's upset
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because God has
changed His mind.
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And but I can finally say
this instead of stammering.
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Mercy.
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If I can say this, you know,
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in my opinion and
based on my study,
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it only seems that
God changes His mind
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based on the
change that we have.
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He didn't just
say, "Well, you know,
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because you are sinning
because you have these ways,
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let me change how
I deal with your sin
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and with your ways."
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Well, God says, "If you will,
you know, repent, turn around,
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make a change in your habits."
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But in your heart
say, "God, you know,
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I want to repent
like what Nineveh did."
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That God does change His mind.
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I was one of those people
who just answer emphatically,
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"No, He does not
change His mind."
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But God does change His mind,
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I don't know if
He changes His ways.
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You know, God seems to be a God
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where His ways are
just filled with mercy.
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And so even what we see
in Nineveh is no different
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from what we see when
God says to Adam and Eve,
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you know, "Listen, I
understand you sinned,
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but, you know,
there will come somebody
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and he will, you know,
while he bruises the heal,
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you will bruise his head."
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You know, in that same message
of salvation which is Mercy
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based on what we don't deserve,
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you know, is God
changing His mind
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is what He does over
and over in every situation.
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Yeah, and I like to
point out to that Jonah was,
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"I know you are
going to do this, guy.
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You know, you're
just so merciful,
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you're so loving, you know."
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And that's the ways of God.
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God is a loving, He
always is and He always willing
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to take back a
sinner who has repented
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and changed the consequences
that really should've been
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but because of the
repentance He will change.
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So let's make that clear.
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Is there any other
comments you want to make
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in regards to
God changes His mind.
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Go ahead.
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Yeah, I don't think He...
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I mean, looking it for
a behavioral standpoint.
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I don't necessarily
think He changes His mind
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but He changes His approach.
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You talked about culture
of the day and everything.
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I think He changes His
approach to give us the message,
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you know, the
message of salvation.
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I think the general
premise of salvation of coming
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to dwell with Him in the kingdom
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remains the same
through and through.
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But His approach,
His behavior changes
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in the sense of, you know,
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He approached one tribe this way
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and another section this
way and another area this way.
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One big example is He
approached the Pharisees,
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the parables, you know,
He approached a lot of them
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with parables verses us.
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Now-a-days, we have the Word.
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And parables may not
make that much sense to us now
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because we're not
living in the context
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or in that culture.
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However, you can
still draw from the well
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from the living
water, we can draw from there
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and conclude, you know,
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the message of
the Kingdom of God
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is at hand is
throughout the entire Bible.
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So I think the same message
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but maybe the
approach is different.
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Okay.
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Mind, message,
approach, difference,
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what about His plan?
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Does He change His plan?
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Does He change
because, you know,
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there are instances
where He said, you know,
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this is what
you should be doing,
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you should not divorce or
you should not need a king
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I'm your king.
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But then He allowed for
there to be a king in Israel,
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He allowed for
there to be divorce.
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And so does He change His plan?
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Does things, you know,
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based off of what is to going on
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what people are doing?
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I kind of lost
my train of thought.
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Because He allows
for something to happen,
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does that necessarily mean
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that there is a
change in the plan?
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Because if you think
about the plan of salvation.
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The plan of
salvation existed before a sin.
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Did the plan of salvation change
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when sin entered the picture?
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Lamb of slain from the
foundation of the world.
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Revelations says.
That's a good point.
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Look at how God deals with us.
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You know, we are
the ones who choose,
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you can either choose
righteousness and Christ
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or you can
choose Satan and his MO.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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Does the plan change
according to how we choose?
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No, we choose which
plan we want to follow.
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You know, I think it's
also good to point out,
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I remembered what I
was going to say that,
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that anything
outside of God is death.
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And so even the judgments
of God are not really God
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casting judgment,
He's only telling you
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what will naturally happen
as a result of your actions.
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And so, you know,
we talk about Nineveh,
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we talk about
Zaccheus these guys who got,
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you know, mankind.
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You know, when Adam
and Eve in the garden,
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everything was perfect,
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naturally they
would live forever
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'cause they were in
God, they were in His will.
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But to step out
of the will of God
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is to automatically call
down damnation upon yourself.
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So we can only, you
know, come to the conclusion
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that to step back
into the will of God
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is naturally to call back now
the life of God or His grace.
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If you're outside
of God, it's damnation,
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if you're in God, it's life.
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So I don't know if
God necessarily even...
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and I said it just a
while ago He change His plans.
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But I don't know if
He changes anything,
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He jus t tells us what it is.
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The truth is if
you step outside of me,
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it's not I'm killing
you or punishing you,
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you're really
punishing yourself.
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And if you step
back inside of Me,
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you save yourself
from the punishment
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you would have
gotten if you were outside.
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I mean, look at the
example of Abraham, you know,
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we talked, people say,
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"Polygamy was
okay, God condoned it."
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But, you know,
that was not His plan
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for it to happen,
He did not condone it
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because he was naturally see
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the negative
results that took place.
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Every single thing, you
know, even in getting a king,
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you see the negative
results that happened,
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you see the
negative results of them,
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you know, even
divorce, you know.
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So to say that God
allows and says, "That's okay."
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That means you have to
say that God also allow
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for the negative
things to take place
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and thus He's responsible
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for all the
negative things, you know.
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No.
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God has a original plan
and He wants us to stay in line
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with that because
ultimately like you said
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when we're close to Him,
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there's a life apart
from them there is death.
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The thing about
salvation that is, you know,
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a mystery and is
really kind of simple too
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is that God does it
based on your choice,
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this is the bottom line.
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God cannot save someone
who does not want to be saved.
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As much as God can
make for salvation,
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the lamb could have been
slain before the foundation,
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and then some...
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you know, what I'm saying.
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I mean, yeah, Negroes,
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they become the
mad lambs slaying
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before foundation.
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But even with what
Christ has done, the power
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and what Christ has
done is only really effective
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if you choose it.
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You know, imagine
if Christ had died
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and the disciples
fled and never came back,
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never went to the upper room,
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then the slaying of the lamb
would have been lost, you know.
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But the power was that
even in not understanding it,
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they came in
and made the choice,
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we're going to come together
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and we're going to accept
what He has done, you know.
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All right.
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Well, let's make this
clear and kind of say make sure
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is clear what we're saying.
00:10:15.51\00:10:16.85
You know, we are saying
that if you are engaging
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in something that is
not morally sanctioned
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in the Bible in
terms of, you know,
00:10:24.05\00:10:26.49
homosexuality
behavior, lifestyle
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these type of things are not
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what God originally
planned for us to do.
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These are things
that we have chosen
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to do on our own,
it's not in the Bible.
00:10:35.30\00:10:38.13
And God is allowing
things to take place right now
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but there is still going to
be consequences for the actions
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that we take that are
outside of God's will.
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And so, you know,
let's be clear on that
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and understand that, you
know, there is a standard,
00:10:49.11\00:10:52.91
God does not
change His moral law.
00:10:52.95\00:10:54.82
If you could've
change His moral law,
00:10:54.85\00:10:56.69
then Jesus would not
have had to die, you know,
00:10:56.72\00:10:58.82
on the cross if you could've
just changed His moral laws.
00:10:58.85\00:11:00.82
So there are moral
issues that He sticks to
00:11:00.86\00:11:04.39
and I want that to be
very, very crystal clear
00:11:04.43\00:11:06.03
because, you know,
we often want to go off
00:11:06.06\00:11:08.06
of our emotions
and how we feel is okay
00:11:08.10\00:11:10.20
because of how I feel
so God is going to hear
00:11:10.23\00:11:12.67
to my feelings and my thoughts.
00:11:12.70\00:11:14.17
But there is still a
standard that God has
00:11:14.20\00:11:17.17
and we as Christians
need to seek to be as close
00:11:17.21\00:11:20.68
as we can to God
and His standards.
00:11:20.71\00:11:23.14
But then there's thorough little
00:11:23.18\00:11:24.51
monkey wrench into this thing
00:11:24.55\00:11:25.88
because a part of the community,
00:11:25.91\00:11:27.25
there's also the transgender
and this is an aspect
00:11:27.28\00:11:31.22
of the community that says that,
00:11:31.25\00:11:32.89
"I don't feel like I am
man, all right, you know.
00:11:32.92\00:11:35.52
And I would like to
be, I feel like I am woman
00:11:35.56\00:11:37.79
so I'm going to take
necessary medical steps
00:11:37.83\00:11:40.53
to change my body to
become another gender."
00:11:40.56\00:11:44.77
What do we say about that?
00:11:44.80\00:11:46.13
What does the Bible
say in regarding to that?
00:11:46.17\00:11:48.27
Is there anything that He said
because now let me make sure
00:11:48.30\00:11:51.21
I make this clear
now if I am a female now,
00:11:51.24\00:11:54.01
now I feel like I can
marry a male and it's okay
00:11:54.04\00:11:58.41
because it's still man and woman
00:11:58.45\00:12:00.08
that I've changed my gender.
00:12:00.12\00:12:02.78
As you're saying
about feelings the issue
00:12:02.82\00:12:05.92
that we have right now society
is we have problems defining
00:12:05.95\00:12:08.49
what it really means
to be a male or a female
00:12:08.52\00:12:12.36
so a person can
have that extra confusing
00:12:12.39\00:12:14.50
trying to figure out,
"Okay, am I really a man
00:12:14.53\00:12:16.63
or am I really a woman
00:12:16.67\00:12:18.33
and what does
that really look like?"
00:12:18.37\00:12:20.70
And it all boils down to
remembering what God says
00:12:20.74\00:12:23.47
in His Word in Psalms 139.
00:12:23.51\00:12:26.94
David was saying
thing, "God, for you created
00:12:26.98\00:12:28.94
my inmost being, you knit me
together in my mother's womb,
00:12:28.98\00:12:32.38
I praise You
because I'm fearfully
00:12:32.41\00:12:33.78
and wonderfully made,
I know that full well.
00:12:33.82\00:12:36.75
My frame was not hidden from you
00:12:36.79\00:12:38.39
when I was made in a
secret place, you know,
00:12:38.42\00:12:41.09
when I was woven together
in the depths of the earth,
00:12:41.12\00:12:42.96
Your eyes saw my unformed body."
00:12:42.99\00:12:45.69
God was there in the
entire process of a child
00:12:45.73\00:12:48.60
being in his mother
or her mother's womb.
00:12:48.63\00:12:51.60
So when the child is
born, it wasn't a mistake,
00:12:51.63\00:12:53.84
there's no confusion,
maybe the issue is that
00:12:53.87\00:12:57.21
we are having
problems in finding what a man
00:12:57.24\00:12:59.37
and what a woman is
00:12:59.41\00:13:00.74
and what their
roles are in society.
00:13:00.78\00:13:02.61
Okay. That was interesting.
00:13:02.64\00:13:03.98
Does anybody else
want to add to that?
00:13:04.01\00:13:05.35
I think it should be clear to
00:13:05.38\00:13:06.72
we should tell
about the feelings
00:13:06.75\00:13:08.08
because we don't want
everybody to think that,
00:13:08.12\00:13:09.45
"Well, if God made me
fearfully, wonderfully,
00:13:09.48\00:13:10.99
then He made me fearfully,
wonderfully homosexual."
00:13:11.02\00:13:13.49
You know, those,
we've already established
00:13:13.52\00:13:15.12
I guess in part
one that those feelings
00:13:15.16\00:13:17.13
that we have are
also results of sins.
00:13:17.16\00:13:19.03
I think we need to bring it up.
00:13:19.06\00:13:21.30
And the fact that those feelings
00:13:21.33\00:13:22.66
are with the sin is
acting on those feelings.
00:13:22.70\00:13:25.20
But like I said,
00:13:25.23\00:13:26.57
there's another part
of the community also,
00:13:26.60\00:13:28.60
I guess the "A" in the
letters is the Asexual.
00:13:28.64\00:13:31.84
And I guess defining
that means as someone
00:13:31.87\00:13:34.14
who is not partial
towards any wanting sex at all,
00:13:34.18\00:13:37.98
you know, they
have no desire for sex.
00:13:38.01\00:13:41.05
So is there something
that's wrong with that?
00:13:41.08\00:13:43.49
And is that spoken
about in the Bible?
00:13:43.52\00:13:45.22
Someone want to touch on that?
00:13:45.25\00:13:46.99
I don't think anything
is wrong with it, you know,
00:13:47.02\00:13:48.62
Paul talks about...
Paul wasn't married,
00:13:48.66\00:13:50.53
and he talks about the fact
00:13:50.56\00:13:51.89
that it's
probably better for you
00:13:51.93\00:13:53.26
not to be married
especially for the gospel sake
00:13:53.29\00:13:55.36
because there are no hindrances.
00:13:55.40\00:13:57.10
I mean, me personally
I can really do without,
00:13:57.13\00:13:58.97
you know, the companionship,
I don't know what it's like
00:13:59.00\00:14:01.90
not to feel those feelings.
00:14:01.94\00:14:03.64
But I don't know if
we can say something
00:14:03.67\00:14:05.01
is necessarily wrong with that.
00:14:05.04\00:14:06.37
What I said about
spiritual prophecies about that.
00:14:06.41\00:14:08.64
Oh, before I jump into that,
I wanted to add that asexual,
00:14:08.68\00:14:11.65
it's not that they
don't want companionship,
00:14:11.68\00:14:13.72
they do value
being in relationships.
00:14:13.75\00:14:16.48
They just don't
have any desires for sex
00:14:16.52\00:14:19.72
and being involved sexually.
00:14:19.75\00:14:21.79
They even enjoy
romance, that's the issue.
00:14:21.82\00:14:24.39
And I do remember
I did some research
00:14:24.43\00:14:26.86
where Ellen White was
talking to a young couple
00:14:26.90\00:14:28.80
where the guy made a
decision to be a eunuch,
00:14:28.83\00:14:32.20
he removed his private
parts and his wife knew this,
00:14:32.23\00:14:35.87
and when they
were married together,
00:14:35.90\00:14:37.97
she was having problems
with that being the case.
00:14:38.01\00:14:40.88
But Ellen White
was suggesting to them
00:14:40.91\00:14:42.74
that this is the
good thing, you know,
00:14:42.78\00:14:44.25
the fact that there's
no sexual desires for him,
00:14:44.28\00:14:46.18
you guys can be able
to focus on the ministry
00:14:46.21\00:14:48.88
and being able to
do so much more things
00:14:48.92\00:14:50.59
that other couples
cannot be able to do
00:14:50.62\00:14:52.32
because they have children
and all these different things
00:14:52.35\00:14:54.52
there is a blessing
in being as asexual.
00:14:54.56\00:14:57.56
So if that's the case,
you know, if you're asexual,
00:14:57.59\00:14:59.76
do it to the
glory of God, you know,
00:14:59.79\00:15:01.46
allow it to be something
that you exercise your time
00:15:01.50\00:15:05.57
to bring yourself closer God.
00:15:05.60\00:15:06.94
And ultimately, you
know, I'll be honest with you,
00:15:06.97\00:15:09.70
you know, we've all faced
that that where, you know,
00:15:09.74\00:15:12.77
sex or even
relationships or marriage
00:15:12.81\00:15:15.34
or any aspect of
it, takes your mind away
00:15:15.38\00:15:18.08
from what you should be
doing or focusing with God.
00:15:18.11\00:15:21.25
So that's a whole lot really
00:15:21.28\00:15:23.12
that we can go
into with that one.
00:15:23.15\00:15:24.49
Let's transition here
00:15:24.52\00:15:25.85
and talk a
little more about sin.
00:15:25.89\00:15:27.92
I think that some
people may wonder,
00:15:27.96\00:15:29.29
Why do, you know,
00:15:29.32\00:15:30.66
these Christians
always have to call
00:15:30.69\00:15:32.03
what I'm doing is sin, you know,
00:15:32.06\00:15:33.40
they seem like to
have with my actions
00:15:33.43\00:15:35.06
and they're
always calling it sin."
00:15:35.10\00:15:36.67
Why do we have to go there?
00:15:36.70\00:15:38.03
Why do we have to make sure
we call sin by its right name?
00:15:38.07\00:15:41.67
In this day, you know,
in this time during prophecy
00:15:41.70\00:15:45.37
that we read the Bible,
in this last day generation,
00:15:45.41\00:15:47.91
why is it important for
us as Christians to make sure
00:15:47.94\00:15:50.88
we call out sin and
call it by its right name?
00:15:50.91\00:15:53.95
I think the tendency in
our post-modern generation
00:15:53.98\00:15:57.75
is to blur the lines
00:15:57.79\00:16:00.36
and so there's no absolute right
00:16:00.39\00:16:03.66
and there's no absolute wrong.
00:16:03.69\00:16:05.89
So I can take
what's in the Bible
00:16:05.93\00:16:08.96
and go with it if I choose
00:16:09.00\00:16:10.67
or I cannot go
with it if I choose.
00:16:10.70\00:16:14.04
So there's no absolute.
00:16:14.07\00:16:16.71
But God doesn't really
operate under no absolutes.
00:16:16.74\00:16:20.61
And so we need
to make that clear
00:16:20.64\00:16:24.18
because if we
operate under no absolute,
00:16:24.21\00:16:27.02
there is going to
come a time when, you know,
00:16:27.05\00:16:29.05
you're going to
have to give account.
00:16:29.08\00:16:31.12
And at that point and
time, there'll be no excuse.
00:16:31.15\00:16:35.32
So it's not a
matter of beating somebody
00:16:35.36\00:16:38.49
over the head with a hammer
but the truth of the matter is
00:16:38.53\00:16:41.33
Christ is coming soon.
00:16:41.36\00:16:42.70
Amen.
00:16:42.73\00:16:44.07
And we are being
judged right now, you know.
00:16:44.10\00:16:46.13
Bible tells us that Jesus will
administer His rewards to us
00:16:46.17\00:16:49.50
when He comes.
00:16:49.54\00:16:50.87
And if He's going
to give us rewards
00:16:50.91\00:16:52.24
based on our
works, then we are...
00:16:52.27\00:16:54.74
the judgment has to obviously
be taken place before He comes.
00:16:54.78\00:16:57.75
And I'm sorry if I can
add, even though society
00:16:57.78\00:17:01.32
is pushing towards no absolutes,
00:17:01.35\00:17:03.92
we still function in
society under rules and laws.
00:17:03.95\00:17:08.72
And so it's almost as
if where it's convenient
00:17:08.76\00:17:12.46
we say no absolutes or
where we don't want people
00:17:12.49\00:17:14.73
to interfere with our
lives, we say no absolute.
00:17:14.76\00:17:18.50
But in every
other aspect, you know,
00:17:18.53\00:17:20.74
we find this
concept of right and wrong.
00:17:20.77\00:17:23.24
We'll go to Xavier.
00:17:23.27\00:17:24.61
And it's all and again,
00:17:24.64\00:17:25.97
it's all driven
by fear, you know.
00:17:26.01\00:17:27.34
We're afraid of the
unknown, we're afraid of
00:17:27.38\00:17:28.84
what we don't know.
00:17:28.88\00:17:30.21
You know, when
you know something
00:17:30.25\00:17:32.21
you're comfortable with
it, you rather just stay there,
00:17:32.25\00:17:34.98
why go anywhere else?
00:17:35.02\00:17:36.35
And that's the thing that
always drives us, you know.
00:17:36.38\00:17:38.85
I'm reminded that, you know,
the Book of Judges, you know,
00:17:38.89\00:17:42.09
everybody did was
right in their own eyes.
00:17:42.12\00:17:44.63
You know, we
have our moral fiber
00:17:44.66\00:17:48.33
as a society has been
degraded, deteriorated so much
00:17:48.36\00:17:53.77
that was right as
wrong was wrong as right.
00:17:53.80\00:17:56.60
We no longer subscribe
to a certain set of rules.
00:17:56.64\00:18:01.01
We do what they
call politically correct.
00:18:01.04\00:18:04.55
Only worrying
about his feelings.
00:18:04.58\00:18:05.91
Exactly. All right.
00:18:05.95\00:18:07.95
Is there a text that you
wanted to bring out this time?
00:18:07.98\00:18:09.48
Yeah, with that I want to...
00:18:09.52\00:18:11.29
there's a text
in 1 Corinthians 6.
00:18:11.32\00:18:15.02
1 Corinthians 6:9, it says that,
00:18:15.06\00:18:19.36
"Do you not know that the wicked
00:18:19.39\00:18:21.36
will not inherit
the kingdom of God.
00:18:21.40\00:18:23.77
Do not be deceived
neither sexually immoral
00:18:23.80\00:18:27.10
nor the
adulteress, no adulteress,
00:18:27.14\00:18:29.30
no male prostitutes,
no homosexual offenders,
00:18:29.34\00:18:32.47
nor thieves, nor the greedy,
nor drunkard, nor slanders,
00:18:32.51\00:18:36.14
nor swindlers will
inherit the kingdom of God.
00:18:36.18\00:18:39.25
And that is
what some of you were
00:18:39.28\00:18:41.15
but you were
washed, you were sanctified,
00:18:41.18\00:18:43.02
you were justified in the
name of the Lord Jesus Christ
00:18:43.05\00:18:46.15
and by the spirit of our God."
00:18:46.19\00:18:47.89
Amen. Amen.
00:18:47.92\00:18:49.49
As we continue, it's not
that we're saying it's a sin
00:18:49.52\00:18:54.36
because we don't
want you to have pleasure
00:18:54.40\00:18:56.33
and to have fun
because we can all realize
00:18:56.36\00:18:59.77
that these different sense
in this whole entire community,
00:18:59.80\00:19:03.24
it does have its benefits.
00:19:03.27\00:19:04.91
But the issue with sin
is sin has consequences.
00:19:04.94\00:19:09.18
And that's why we
have to call it out sinful
00:19:09.21\00:19:11.21
for what it is that a
different consequences
00:19:11.25\00:19:13.48
that these
particular sins have is
00:19:13.52\00:19:15.68
you don't have the benefits
that your body naturally craves
00:19:15.72\00:19:19.65
for like there's some couples
00:19:19.69\00:19:21.76
that naturally
crave for children.
00:19:21.79\00:19:24.19
But because of
these relationships,
00:19:24.23\00:19:25.79
you can't have
that as a consequence
00:19:25.83\00:19:28.40
or even a different consequences
00:19:28.43\00:19:29.76
of the different
diseases or even the fact
00:19:29.80\00:19:31.33
that your body is not
supposed to work this way,
00:19:31.37\00:19:33.60
so you get more
inclined to be ill or to suffer
00:19:33.64\00:19:37.34
or even to have, you
know, surgeries later,
00:19:37.37\00:19:39.77
you didn't even imagine
that you would need like
00:19:39.81\00:19:42.24
that's the problem,
not just okay don't do it
00:19:42.28\00:19:44.75
because you're going
to be condemned to hell.
00:19:44.78\00:19:47.02
Or for some
people that might say,
00:19:47.05\00:19:48.38
"I don't even want to
really know God like that.
00:19:48.42\00:19:49.88
I don't really
want Jesus Christ."
00:19:49.92\00:19:51.82
It's more than just that,
there is something that happens
00:19:51.85\00:19:55.29
because of sin that happens
in our relationship with others
00:19:55.32\00:19:58.66
in our own personal lives
00:19:58.69\00:20:00.46
that really
makes you want to say,
00:20:00.50\00:20:02.56
"No, don't do it.
00:20:02.60\00:20:03.93
It is a sin because
of the consequence."
00:20:03.97\00:20:05.90
And also maybe the consequences,
00:20:05.93\00:20:07.27
it separates us from God,
00:20:07.30\00:20:08.64
you know, that's
the biggest fear.
00:20:08.67\00:20:10.67
Read your last text for us.
00:20:10.71\00:20:12.04
Yeah, the last
one I want to read
00:20:12.07\00:20:13.41
is actually from
the Book of Revelation.
00:20:13.44\00:20:15.98
And this is after
everybody, you know,
00:20:16.01\00:20:17.65
the kingdom and everything.
00:20:17.68\00:20:19.55
Revelation 22:15
says, "Outside are the dogs,
00:20:19.58\00:20:26.25
those who practice magic
arts, the sexually immoral,
00:20:26.29\00:20:29.99
the murderers, the
idolaters and everyone who loves
00:20:30.03\00:20:32.73
and practices lying."
00:20:32.76\00:20:34.16
And that's so important
that verse is brought out
00:20:34.20\00:20:36.03
because, you know,
that's why we have pure choices
00:20:36.06\00:20:38.07
because we understand
the dire situation we are in
00:20:38.10\00:20:41.80
that we're
coming to the last days
00:20:41.84\00:20:43.17
and we know
that sexually immoral
00:20:43.20\00:20:44.77
will be outside of the kingdom.
00:20:44.81\00:20:46.24
And so we, you
know, have to make sure
00:20:46.27\00:20:48.54
we see the importance of
00:20:48.58\00:20:49.91
what God is
trying to help us see
00:20:49.94\00:20:51.28
because He does
not want us to be
00:20:51.31\00:20:53.21
outside the kingdom, you know.
00:20:53.25\00:20:54.85
He desperately wants
us to be in the kingdom.
00:20:54.88\00:20:56.69
And so He sends us
these warning signs
00:20:56.72\00:20:58.75
and that's why, you
know, I believe so powerful
00:20:58.79\00:21:00.42
to have a
program like Pure Choices
00:21:00.46\00:21:01.96
so we can talk
about these things
00:21:01.99\00:21:03.39
because sexual
sin is a huge issue
00:21:03.43\00:21:06.90
in the church all together.
00:21:06.93\00:21:08.26
Heterosexual,
homosexual whatever it is,
00:21:08.30\00:21:10.50
it is a huge problem
that God does not like
00:21:10.53\00:21:15.17
and we have to make sure
we are staying close to Him
00:21:15.20\00:21:17.91
so we don't have issues
that will come because of sin.
00:21:17.94\00:21:21.68
I know that Douglas
just want to talk so.
00:21:21.71\00:21:24.71
Now really quickly I think
it needs to be made clear also
00:21:24.75\00:21:28.52
that we are not necessarily
the ones calling it sin.
00:21:28.55\00:21:34.49
If we are using the Bible
and God's Word as our standard,
00:21:34.52\00:21:39.29
it says it there in.
00:21:39.33\00:21:40.73
And I know within
our society today,
00:21:40.76\00:21:43.63
we've also become
almost hypersensitive
00:21:43.67\00:21:46.84
where if I am doing wrong
00:21:46.87\00:21:48.90
and Brittany should call me out,
00:21:48.94\00:21:50.41
whether it's a sexual
sin or not I get offended
00:21:50.44\00:21:53.88
even though we both
claim to believe the same thing
00:21:53.91\00:21:57.98
and she is simply
saying what I'm doing.
00:21:58.01\00:22:00.72
And so I think sometimes
we need to take a step back
00:22:00.75\00:22:03.72
and realize that...
00:22:03.75\00:22:05.59
first of all, we
need to do it in love,
00:22:05.62\00:22:07.46
I think that
needs to be understood,
00:22:07.49\00:22:09.42
we need to
approach people in love.
00:22:09.46\00:22:11.19
And if and when
you are approached,
00:22:11.23\00:22:14.10
realize that, you know,
00:22:14.13\00:22:15.46
what if I'm going
according to this,
00:22:15.50\00:22:17.57
the person who is
approaching me in love
00:22:17.60\00:22:19.67
has my best interest that heart
00:22:19.70\00:22:21.77
and they are
simply trying to help.
00:22:21.80\00:22:23.74
You know, in my experience,
I've only gotten offended
00:22:23.77\00:22:27.51
when someone called me
out when I knew I was wrong.
00:22:27.54\00:22:29.91
I've never been offended
when I know I was right.
00:22:29.94\00:22:32.31
And I'm not
saying that, you know,
00:22:32.35\00:22:33.68
I'm not trying to say
everybody out there knows
00:22:33.72\00:22:35.05
they are wrong.
00:22:35.08\00:22:36.42
But I do believe that
maybe some people fight so hard
00:22:36.45\00:22:38.72
because, you know, they may know
00:22:38.75\00:22:40.19
that something
is just not right.
00:22:40.22\00:22:41.89
What I love about the text
00:22:41.92\00:22:43.26
that Professor
X reads over there
00:22:43.29\00:22:45.09
is that the text
doesn't just say sexual sin
00:22:45.13\00:22:48.36
it actually list a
whole bunch of the stuff
00:22:48.40\00:22:49.96
the last way is with lying.
00:22:50.00\00:22:52.03
You know, one of the things
00:22:52.07\00:22:53.40
that we fight with
in our church today
00:22:53.44\00:22:54.87
and one of
things that, you know,
00:22:54.90\00:22:56.24
this community is
fighting for is acceptance.
00:22:56.27\00:22:59.47
And, you know, for
with me, I'm thinking,
00:22:59.51\00:23:01.48
"Well, what do you
mean by acceptance?"
00:23:01.51\00:23:03.24
You know, do you want us to say.
00:23:03.28\00:23:04.61
"Okay, great. You
know, do what you do."
00:23:04.65\00:23:06.61
You know, which to me
is actually, you know,
00:23:06.65\00:23:08.32
I really can't talk
much against someone
00:23:08.35\00:23:10.52
who is not trying
to be a Christian.
00:23:10.55\00:23:13.12
But if you were
trying to be a Christian,
00:23:13.15\00:23:15.52
then the
definition of acceptance
00:23:15.56\00:23:17.39
is not for me to
accept your lifestyle,
00:23:17.43\00:23:18.96
it's for me to
accept you, the same way
00:23:18.99\00:23:21.06
that God accepts me
when I deal with my sins
00:23:21.10\00:23:24.63
so that I'm not
standing outside the world.
00:23:24.67\00:23:27.40
And I think that it's important
for the community to know that,
00:23:27.44\00:23:30.34
you know, what motivates
us is not we don't like you,
00:23:30.37\00:23:33.27
we don't know you,
you know, we hate you.
00:23:33.31\00:23:35.44
The motivation is for someone
who saved, the motivation is,
00:23:35.48\00:23:39.68
you know, I have experienced
a wonderful salvation
00:23:39.71\00:23:42.48
and I want you to
experience it as well.
00:23:42.52\00:23:44.45
And because I
know because, you know,
00:23:44.49\00:23:46.35
Bible is my barometer
and I know that God says
00:23:46.39\00:23:48.59
this is not
going to be in heaven.
00:23:48.62\00:23:50.19
I want to do
everything I can to let you know
00:23:50.23\00:23:53.06
so that you can
also put yourself
00:23:53.09\00:23:54.50
in a position to be saying.
00:23:54.53\00:23:56.13
Amen. I like that.
00:23:56.16\00:23:57.50
You know, one thing we
have to realize too is that,
00:23:57.53\00:24:00.17
you know, God wants
us to come as we are
00:24:00.20\00:24:01.54
but not stay as we are.
00:24:01.57\00:24:02.94
You know, a lot
of times we see...
00:24:02.97\00:24:04.94
this is something I have
to understand that the church,
00:24:04.97\00:24:07.41
we have not created a culture
of let us all strive together
00:24:07.44\00:24:12.88
in a community of openness
00:24:12.91\00:24:14.48
to get closer to
Christ, you know.
00:24:14.52\00:24:16.22
And let's
expose each other sins,
00:24:16.25\00:24:17.95
and talk about what
we're struggling with,
00:24:17.99\00:24:19.99
and let's grow together.
00:24:20.02\00:24:21.36
And we've kind of say
act like we're perfect
00:24:21.39\00:24:22.72
and things are
okay, but all of a sudden
00:24:22.76\00:24:24.09
when there's a
"egregious sin" comes about
00:24:24.13\00:24:26.76
we want to, you
know, attack that one,
00:24:26.80\00:24:28.13
but because
there's no culture of us
00:24:28.16\00:24:29.60
talking about
these things together,
00:24:29.63\00:24:31.30
we should have already been
talking about the pornography,
00:24:31.33\00:24:34.30
you know, the cheating,
the line that we can have
00:24:34.34\00:24:37.91
a discussion to be even
00:24:37.94\00:24:39.27
when homosexuality
comes into mix or any other,
00:24:39.31\00:24:41.38
you know, thing that is
not a quote in the Word of God.
00:24:41.41\00:24:43.38
So we can all grow together
to actually get closer to God
00:24:43.41\00:24:47.02
if we're all
striving to be Christians
00:24:47.05\00:24:49.08
and be close to God,
00:24:49.12\00:24:50.45
that must be the
culture in the church.
00:24:50.49\00:24:52.95
I think we need to...
00:24:52.99\00:24:54.32
as a church we
need to stop trying
00:24:54.36\00:24:56.42
to the work of the
trinity of the Holy Spirit.
00:24:56.46\00:24:59.23
We need...
00:24:59.26\00:25:00.60
our job is to be that conduit,
We're all coming together,
00:25:00.63\00:25:04.10
it's a beautiful thing,
we're all coming together
00:25:04.13\00:25:05.77
to the foot of the Cross,
00:25:05.80\00:25:07.24
we're all coming
together to Jesus.
00:25:07.27\00:25:09.14
That's the only one
that can change anything,
00:25:09.17\00:25:11.31
that's the only one
that can bring unity,
00:25:11.34\00:25:13.44
that's the only one
that can do anything
00:25:13.48\00:25:15.08
with what we have.
00:25:15.11\00:25:16.78
You know, we take on
the work of the Trinity
00:25:16.81\00:25:18.61
trying to do the
changes in every...
00:25:18.65\00:25:21.28
No, we're creating too
much work for ourselves.
00:25:21.32\00:25:24.19
Our job is to come
together as broken vessels
00:25:24.22\00:25:27.12
to the foot of the
cross, come to the feet of Jesus
00:25:27.16\00:25:29.49
and say, "Please, fix us, Lord,
00:25:29.52\00:25:31.76
that we may be in
the kingdom with you."
00:25:31.79\00:25:33.50
All right. So let's
finish out with this.
00:25:33.53\00:25:34.93
What are the practical
things we can talk about
00:25:34.96\00:25:37.23
to really are those
in those communities
00:25:37.27\00:25:40.10
we have friends with.
00:25:40.14\00:25:41.47
How can we put
them in the right place
00:25:41.50\00:25:42.84
that Trinity can work
on them and really show
00:25:42.87\00:25:44.87
that we're not condoning this in
00:25:44.91\00:25:46.37
or condoning the lifestyle
but we are actually loving.
00:25:46.41\00:25:48.91
How can we truly show the
love that needs to be shown?
00:25:48.94\00:25:51.25
I think as churches,
we need to accept people
00:25:51.28\00:25:53.98
for who they and
also being very open
00:25:54.02\00:25:57.42
that we don't condone
and kind of explaining
00:25:57.45\00:25:59.92
what that means especially that
we don't condone our own sins,
00:25:59.95\00:26:02.82
and then we need to start
working more as a community.
00:26:02.86\00:26:04.86
This is across the board.
00:26:04.89\00:26:06.23
We need to work
more the community
00:26:06.26\00:26:07.60
to be given to the Holy Spirit.
00:26:07.63\00:26:09.33
The disciples had all
issues, they had problems,
00:26:09.36\00:26:11.67
and they got an upper
room, they prayed together.
00:26:11.70\00:26:14.04
They gave themselves
over to the spirit, you know,
00:26:14.07\00:26:16.20
and not because
what they necessarily did
00:26:16.24\00:26:18.47
but because they all were
there for each other, you know,
00:26:18.51\00:26:20.88
were in community
those who is able to move.
00:26:20.91\00:26:22.94
And I believe we just
got to open ourselves up
00:26:22.98\00:26:24.38
to that as a community.
00:26:24.41\00:26:25.75
Amen, Brittany.
00:26:25.78\00:26:27.12
As we're moving forward into
00:26:27.15\00:26:28.48
how it's actually
love this community.
00:26:28.52\00:26:30.59
We have to realize that we
have some myths in our minds,
00:26:30.62\00:26:34.32
we have some
assumptions in our minds
00:26:34.36\00:26:36.99
and as we want to go out
and embrace people are part
00:26:37.03\00:26:41.33
of the LGBTQIA Community,
00:26:41.36\00:26:43.97
we have to we
have to really sit down
00:26:44.00\00:26:46.50
and get educated.
00:26:46.53\00:26:47.87
Yeah.
00:26:47.90\00:26:49.24
Because we can say
some really hurtful things
00:26:49.27\00:26:51.11
that makes the person
not even want to know Christ.
00:26:51.14\00:26:53.74
They don't even want
to come closer to Him,
00:26:53.78\00:26:55.74
they're like, "If
that's what God believes
00:26:55.78\00:26:57.38
that I don't really
care about that anymore."
00:26:57.41\00:26:59.45
Amen.
00:26:59.48\00:27:00.82
I think as churches,
we need to be honest.
00:27:00.85\00:27:02.28
Yeah.
00:27:02.32\00:27:03.65
We need to be honest
about how we have treated people
00:27:03.69\00:27:05.85
whether it's
sexual sin or any sin,
00:27:05.89\00:27:08.36
we have not created
communities that are safe.
00:27:08.39\00:27:11.43
And we need to be
honest before we can change.
00:27:11.46\00:27:15.10
Love is a
powerful thing, you know,
00:27:15.13\00:27:16.80
Christ loved us even while
we were sinners, He held us,
00:27:16.83\00:27:19.57
He died for us
while we're sinning
00:27:19.60\00:27:21.74
and so we must learn
to love like Christ loves.
00:27:21.77\00:27:24.51
And I know that we
probably didn't exhaust
00:27:24.54\00:27:26.04
this entire topic,
there's so much more
00:27:26.07\00:27:28.38
we could talk about
and even as you've listened
00:27:28.41\00:27:29.84
you probably
said there's something
00:27:29.88\00:27:31.21
you would say different
or better or a different way.
00:27:31.25\00:27:33.65
But you know what,
00:27:33.68\00:27:35.02
we're all striving to understand
00:27:35.05\00:27:36.38
how to truly love each other
00:27:36.42\00:27:38.52
and that's the
kind of conversation
00:27:38.55\00:27:39.89
I'll hope happens at
home or in youth groups.
00:27:39.92\00:27:41.66
So God bless you and remember
00:27:41.69\00:27:43.29
always at the
end the day to what?
00:27:43.32\00:27:44.79
To make Pure Choices.
00:27:44.83\00:27:46.63
God bless you.
00:27:46.66\00:27:48.00