The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Hello and
welcome to Pure Choices.
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I'm your host
Pastor Joshua Nelson.
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I am so glad you
decided to join us.
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You are in for a good one today.
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The topic is the
old ball and chain.
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Yes, we are
talking about marriage
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and really how some people think
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their marriage is over
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and if they should be
able to get a divorce or not.
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It's a hot topic,
controversial topic,
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but before we
get into this topic,
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let's go ahead and
stop for a Word of prayer.
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Heavenly Father God,
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we truly need
Your Spirit right now
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to give us understanding,
to help us figure out
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the answers You
have in Your Word,
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give us Your Spirit now,
in Jesus name we pray, amen.
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All right, well,
let's introduce our panel.
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Once again, we have
Brittany-Hill Morales.
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Good to see you.
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She is here, an intern
pastor over in Barren Springs,
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so happy to have her.
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We also have
Chaplain Xavier Morales,
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and he is here as a
chaplain and a rogue scholar.
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So glad he is here.
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And we also have another
married couple, the Douglases.
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We have Pastor K.P. Douglas
and Kimberly Douglas as well.
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And so we are so
glad that they are here.
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All of us very
educated individuals,
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we have interesting
topic here to tackle.
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We are talking about marriage,
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but marriages that have
gone a little bit wrong,
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in the sense
that the individuals
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who are married don't
want to be married anymore.
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Yeah, of course,
we've all heard the saying,
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"Now I am chained down.
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You know, I am locked down.
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I got my old ball
and chain, you know?
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You know, nothing
that I can do now.
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It's like all my
fun is over, you know?"
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That's kind of
mindset a lot of people
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go to marriage thinking
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and maybe some of us
have maybe thought of that,
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and hopefully, we
have changed that thinking.
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But there are definitely
some real situations out there
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some real people
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who maybe even
watching right now,
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who have gone through
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some various
issues in their marriages
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whether it is abuse,
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whether it is some
trials and tribulations
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they didn't think
they can get past,
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some trauma that has happened.
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Whatever case may
be, there's something
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that they may feel right now,
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"Man, I just want to
get out of this marriage.
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I need to get separate.
I need to get divorce."
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And we are going to talk today,
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of course, the
title of the whole program
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is Pure Choices,
so what type of choice
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would you make
in that situation?
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So let's talk in a
minor sense about this.
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If there is
something going wrong
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that you feel
you did not plan for,
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you feel that, "Wait a
second, we are unequally yoked.
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We shouldn't have
even got married before.
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I married the wrong person,"
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is there ever an allowance
for you to get divorce?
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Let's go right into it.
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Based on the fact
that you don't feel
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you made the right decision.
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Let's go with that
one. I don't think so.
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I don't think that God
ever intended for divorce.
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Then I guess that
brings out the question of,
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"Is there a
right person to marry?
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You know, is that that
person or does God have
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maybe a bunch
of different people
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you think is the right person,
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you know, that
may fit that bill?"
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It's a lot of stuff,
you know, to consider.
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But I think that
once you stand before God
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and say to him,
"I am going to spend
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the rest of my
life with this person,"
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then God holds you to that,
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you know, that is a covenant
that you have made with,
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not just that
person but before God.
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And that the thing that,
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you know, we tend to
forget about God is that,
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God honors covenants
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when we make covenants with Him.
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You know what I am saying? Yeah.
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And so if we don't feel like
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upholding our
side of the covenant,
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it doesn't mean
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that God is not going
to uphold the covenant,
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you know, on His end.
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And so that, you
know, I don't know,
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you know, is there a reason
to, you know, is it permissible,
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I mean, if the circumstances
in my opinion call for it
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and there is nothing you can do,
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if somebody says,
"I want to leave you,"
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you know, they
give you no choice,
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then what can you do?
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You know, but I do believe that,
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you know, if we believe
that God is all powerful
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that even situations
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that He did not
intend for us to be in,
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I am pretty sure
He can correct it.
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Okay, so that was
interesting that you say.
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So well, if you are
in a situation like this,
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someone wants to
leave you, what can you do?
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You know, and that
person just wants to leave you.
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I am going to
challenge that, you know,
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is there
something that you should do
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as the person who is saying,
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you know, I want
to save this thing
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even if you really, you know,
think good riddance, you know.
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But should you, you
know, that whole thing of,
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you know, your
marriage is fireproof
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or, you know, should you
really fight for the marriage,
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what are some
things that you would say
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to someone in the
situation you just described?
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What do you think?
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I mean, for me, it's
like have you taken the steps
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to work at it, you know,
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or are you just
feeling the moment
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that you don't
feel like being in it.
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I mean, I am sure
at some point of time
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everybody in their marriage
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doesn't feel like
being in the marriage,
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you know?
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And that's part of the
sinful world we are living
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but, you know, are
you willing to work at it?
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Are you willing to work
even if it's not giant leaps,
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if it is not going
on a private vacation
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or anything like that,
but are you willing to,
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you know, start
from scratch again
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and just really, you
know, go back to the basics
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and start fresh, you know.
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And I think that's
also a key that will make...
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And I speak from my
parents' experience,
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you know, they went
through a phase like that,
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and by the grace of
God, they're celebrating,
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I think 38, 39 years this year.
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Because they got to a point
where it was just horrible.
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And but then they decided,
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you know, they are
aware the good with the bad
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and decided, "No,
let's just work at it,
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and let's start fresh,
let's go back to the basics."
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And, you know,
from there it just
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it took work, it took work.
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But by the grace of God,
you know, they're good now.
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And I'm pretty sure
that was extremely tough,
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and so for
anybody that, you know,
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go against what
your emotions are saying
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and stick with the
covenant that you've made.
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I like what you say
when you say it took work,
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but by the grace
of God, it was doable.
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I think that in relationships,
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how you start is how you finish.
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You know what I'm saying?
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The foundation you lay in
the beginning of your marriage
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will determine what you think,
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you know, is it okay for divorce
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or whether or not you
think divorce is okay.
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If I come into a
marriage knowing that
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this is ordained by God,
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that I'm an
imperfect person married
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another imperfect person,
that any mistake that I make,
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you know what I'm saying,
I have to show the same grace
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that God shows, you know,
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when things happen
in our relationship.
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If I know that I
got to put this person
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before the cross daily,
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then I'm not
sure there's anything,
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you know, I can
say all the stuff
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that I want to say,
I always say to Kim,
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"You know, if you
cheat, don't come home."
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But the truth is,
if she does something,
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I can't tell
you what I would do.
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You know what I'm saying?
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I would have to be
by God's grace compelled
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to love her anyway, you know.
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And so I believe if
you start with a foundation
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that says God is the foundation.
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I think it would be
hard to get divorce.
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You know, I think
maybe one of the issues
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that we may
need to talk about...
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We probably talked
about before is that,
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you know, we're coming
with the wrong foundation.
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If it's about feelings,
about likes and dislikes,
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likes and
dislikes change every day.
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I used to like wide leg jeans,
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I don't know how I wore
them, you know what I'm saying?
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I see them on people now
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and that
absolutely drives me crazy,
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you know, wide leg jeans.
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You know, and I
don't like them today.
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You know, and what
happens if I marry somebody
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just based on what
I like and don't like.
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And, Kim, I want you
to add some more to that
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because you're talking
about that little bit before
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about your liking
and your disliking.
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You know, it's like
Kory said, it's so transient.
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One minute I like this,
the next minute, I like that.
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And it's a faulty foundation
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just because of
that constant changing.
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And this was one of those topics
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that it's so easy to talk about
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when you're not
in the situation,
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but at the same time
those principles that holds you
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when you're not
in the situation,
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holds you when you are in it.
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And one of those
principles for me or for us
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is that marriage
is a salvation issue.
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It is not something
that God takes lightly.
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It is not something
that is to be toyed with,
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and just to show
you how serious it is,
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I mean, think about grandparents
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who are still married or parents
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who are still
married, they'll tell you,
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"We have gone
through some stuff.
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But in order for you
to see this great smile
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and see us sitting, you know,
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on our porch and
rocking chairs now,
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we had to stick it through."
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And that's not based
on how I feel today versus
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how I'm going to feel tomorrow,
you know, about my spouse.
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Yeah, I mean, we
don't take commitment
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very seriously
anymore, you know.
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We do not...
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It's all about what I
feel, it's all about how I...
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If I think it's okay...
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You know, when God
made Adam and Eve...
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First of all,
Eve came from Adam.
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Eve was a part of him.
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And so when you get married,
you are reuniting once again,
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this is supposed to
be the reunification
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of what is one flesh, you know.
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And this is actually, if
you look at it, you know,
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really deep in Genesis,
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it is completely in
the image of God, you know.
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So when this happens,
it is a union that supposed
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to really be an
example to the universe
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of what the trinity of God
actually looks like, you know.
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You, your wife,
you know, and God,
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you know,
together is perfect union.
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And so when you dismantle
as you'd separate this,
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it actually is a
slap in God's face.
00:10:12.84\00:10:15.04
And I think if people took
it more seriously they would...
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Marriage more seriously
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and realize
divorce is not an option,
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they maybe think a
little more about that person,
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the desire to that...
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Or even the choices that
they're making in the marriage.
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Exactly, you know.
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And I think that's
why to the devil is so,
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you know, after marriage
because if I can destroy
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what God's government
looks like to everyday humans,
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then there's nothing
for them to aspire to.
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Then this whole image that,
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you know, God instituted
or God set up is faulty,
00:10:46.44\00:10:50.15
it's false, it's
filled with problems,
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and it's just not as
good as He says it is.
00:10:52.91\00:10:55.88
And so it makes
sense that He should try
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and destroy homes
and destroy marriages
00:10:58.49\00:11:00.92
because that's how we relate,
00:11:00.96\00:11:03.02
you know, as closely as possible
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to God's government.
00:11:04.53\00:11:06.33
I know Kory wants to...
00:11:06.36\00:11:07.83
Well, I kind of want to
throw wrenches out there
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'cause, you know, I'm
not really throwing wrenches,
00:11:10.67\00:11:12.00
but I kind of want to throw them
00:11:12.03\00:11:13.37
and bring them back in.
00:11:13.40\00:11:15.10
I know there are
arguments out there,
00:11:15.14\00:11:16.97
you know, Jesus
talks about divorce,
00:11:17.01\00:11:19.67
Moses talks about divorce,
00:11:19.71\00:11:21.38
and we know
there's a lot of pervading,
00:11:21.41\00:11:23.98
you know, thoughts out
there, especially today
00:11:24.01\00:11:26.55
because divorce is so prevalent.
00:11:26.58\00:11:28.62
Right. You know, people say...
00:11:28.65\00:11:30.29
"What if we are unequally yoked,
00:11:30.32\00:11:32.65
you know, from the beginning?"
00:11:32.69\00:11:34.02
'cause technically,
what we've been talking about
00:11:34.06\00:11:35.46
is marriage that has happened
in the confines of being,
00:11:35.49\00:11:38.59
you know, on the same
page, probably spiritually.
00:11:38.63\00:11:40.96
"So what if we're
all unequally yoked,
00:11:41.00\00:11:42.56
you know, what if I'm
not feeling it anymore..."
00:11:42.60\00:11:44.17
The person totally
changed after they got married.
00:11:44.20\00:11:45.53
Yeah, "What if that the person
00:11:45.57\00:11:46.90
is not really panning out
to what I thought they'd be
00:11:46.94\00:11:49.00
or what if they're
not really, you know,
00:11:49.04\00:11:50.71
going after the same goals
anymore," one of the cases.
00:11:50.74\00:11:52.64
"We're just not
on the same page,"
00:11:52.67\00:11:54.01
irreconcilable
differences I guess
00:11:54.04\00:11:55.94
is the way that
people categorize it.
00:11:55.98\00:11:58.41
And I know people
say, "Well, you know,
00:11:58.45\00:11:59.78
maybe then you
should be able to divorce."
00:11:59.81\00:12:01.72
And what I want
to say to that is
00:12:01.75\00:12:04.15
if we will allow for divorce
on the grounds of feelings
00:12:04.19\00:12:07.79
and irreconcilable differences,
00:12:07.82\00:12:11.16
then I think that,
especially it's Christians,
00:12:11.19\00:12:13.23
especially if you are the person
00:12:13.26\00:12:14.86
who realizes that, you
know, you're unequally...
00:12:14.90\00:12:17.83
Because you are more of
a higher spiritual plane,
00:12:17.87\00:12:20.37
think that if you
divorce for that reason
00:12:20.40\00:12:21.74
that you
undermine the power of God.
00:12:21.77\00:12:23.54
I really do.
00:12:23.57\00:12:24.91
I think that when you're saying
00:12:24.94\00:12:26.27
is that there
is no way in heaven
00:12:26.31\00:12:29.08
that this marriage
can be saved, you know?
00:12:29.11\00:12:31.18
Yeah.
00:12:31.21\00:12:32.55
So is that even if
it was the wrong person
00:12:32.58\00:12:35.18
that you think... I believe.
00:12:35.22\00:12:36.55
I believe so.
00:12:36.58\00:12:37.92
Kim, I need to
get Brittany in here.
00:12:37.95\00:12:39.62
Okay, I'm sorry just to tag onto
00:12:39.65\00:12:41.56
what Kory was saying though,
if you are the individual
00:12:41.59\00:12:44.79
who is spiritually stronger,
00:12:44.83\00:12:47.90
that simply means that
you have more responsibility.
00:12:47.93\00:12:52.57
It doesn't mean
that you leave quicker.
00:12:52.60\00:12:55.94
You know, because you
realize what should be
00:12:55.97\00:12:59.54
and you made this
covenant, this agreement,
00:12:59.57\00:13:02.78
and so your
responsibility is in spite
00:13:02.81\00:13:05.65
of how this person
might have seemed to you
00:13:05.68\00:13:07.68
and you got married
and how things, you know,
00:13:07.72\00:13:10.05
might have changed now,
00:13:10.09\00:13:12.05
but your responsibility
is to hold to that covenant.
00:13:12.09\00:13:16.29
I am going to say
something to that.
00:13:16.32\00:13:17.66
First of all,
Brittany, go ahead.
00:13:17.69\00:13:19.03
Okay, I was going to
throw a semi wrench in
00:13:19.06\00:13:20.86
because so far
we've been talking about
00:13:20.90\00:13:24.20
people being Christians,
00:13:24.23\00:13:26.40
and coming
together, and being married.
00:13:26.43\00:13:28.90
And that's easy
to be able to say,
00:13:28.94\00:13:31.07
"Okay, God brought you together,
00:13:31.11\00:13:32.94
so you need to stay together
00:13:32.97\00:13:34.51
because that's
what God has ordained."
00:13:34.54\00:13:36.44
But what happens
00:13:36.48\00:13:37.81
when it's two Buddhist
people that got married
00:13:37.85\00:13:40.92
and one converted
into Christianity?
00:13:40.95\00:13:43.28
What happens
when it's two Muslims
00:13:43.32\00:13:44.82
or even if it's a
Muslim and a Buddhist?
00:13:44.85\00:13:46.76
Like we need to kind of...
00:13:46.79\00:13:48.52
Sometimes when it comes to
church the topic of divorce,
00:13:48.56\00:13:51.76
we automatically
assume that everybody
00:13:51.79\00:13:54.10
that went to the altar,
if it really wasn't an altar,
00:13:54.13\00:13:56.56
it could have
been a tree or a judge
00:13:56.60\00:13:59.57
that God was there
ordaining the marriage,
00:13:59.60\00:14:03.74
when it could just
have been two people
00:14:03.77\00:14:05.51
who just came together.
00:14:05.54\00:14:07.18
That's a big wrench.
00:14:07.21\00:14:11.21
Well, I mean, my thing is this.
00:14:11.25\00:14:12.91
I am just going to be,
00:14:12.95\00:14:14.38
you know, if we are Christians,
00:14:14.42\00:14:16.05
if we believe
what the Bible says,
00:14:16.08\00:14:17.92
then I honestly don't believe
that there's marriage outside
00:14:17.95\00:14:20.92
of marriage ordained by God.
00:14:20.96\00:14:23.32
And I do believe that
even if you do not get married
00:14:23.36\00:14:25.76
in the confines of knowing God,
00:14:25.79\00:14:29.26
that because God is the one
00:14:29.30\00:14:30.63
who creates the
union of marriage,
00:14:30.67\00:14:32.70
that He honors it
when you take the vow
00:14:32.73\00:14:35.00
to spend your
life with somebody.
00:14:35.04\00:14:36.37
Okay, and I can go with that,
so I mean, and then ultimately,
00:14:36.40\00:14:39.54
the consummation
of marriage, you know,
00:14:39.57\00:14:41.34
it's not just because we
have somebody speaking over...
00:14:41.38\00:14:43.14
I'm saying
Buddha didn't make it.
00:14:43.18\00:14:44.51
So Buddha can't really bless it,
00:14:44.55\00:14:45.88
that's what I'm
saying. Right, right.
00:14:45.91\00:14:47.25
But I mean, you know,
when two people decide
00:14:47.28\00:14:48.62
they're going to
live the lives together
00:14:48.65\00:14:49.98
and, you know,
monogamous relationship,
00:14:50.02\00:14:51.35
and they have sex,
00:14:51.39\00:14:52.72
you know,
that's marriage, right?
00:14:52.75\00:14:54.46
And so...
00:14:54.49\00:14:55.82
But then what
you're saying is that,
00:14:55.86\00:14:57.19
you know, a little further
I guess is if down the road,
00:14:57.23\00:15:01.16
one becomes a
Christian or, you know,
00:15:01.20\00:15:04.87
see things
differently, and even if they're
00:15:04.90\00:15:07.37
both Christians,
and once, you know,
00:15:07.40\00:15:08.74
they were in a
different religion,
00:15:08.77\00:15:10.11
different denomination
within the Christianity,
00:15:10.14\00:15:11.61
then what do you do?
00:15:11.64\00:15:12.97
You know, is it
okay for me to leave
00:15:13.01\00:15:17.31
because it was
under different premises,
00:15:17.35\00:15:20.72
pretenses I guess I
should say that I was married?
00:15:20.75\00:15:23.92
Hold on Douglases.
Morales, go ahead, man.
00:15:23.95\00:15:27.46
With that, again, me as a...
00:15:27.49\00:15:29.52
And I deal with
this a lot in chaplaincy
00:15:29.56\00:15:31.63
of different people that
believes different things.
00:15:31.66\00:15:34.16
I can't tell you
this is what it is,
00:15:34.20\00:15:36.97
I can only provide suggestions.
00:15:37.00\00:15:38.57
When it comes to that, you know,
00:15:38.60\00:15:39.93
you need to come
to an understanding
00:15:39.97\00:15:41.30
of each other
where each other stand.
00:15:41.34\00:15:42.67
Again, the whole
premise of marriage
00:15:42.70\00:15:44.27
is you've got
to put in the work,
00:15:44.31\00:15:46.24
you can't just quit
when the going gets tough.
00:15:46.27\00:15:48.54
It's like, you know, I work,
I'm working my fulltime job,
00:15:48.58\00:15:53.62
you know, sometimes my
boss gets on my nerves,
00:15:53.65\00:15:55.88
am I'm going to quit
00:15:55.92\00:15:57.25
if that's the only
livelihood I have, you know?
00:15:57.29\00:15:59.15
We've taken marriage
00:15:59.19\00:16:01.12
and put it into
a playground mode,
00:16:01.16\00:16:04.56
we are playing house.
00:16:04.59\00:16:05.93
"Today, I don't
feel like playing house,
00:16:05.96\00:16:07.30
so I'm divorcing you."
00:16:07.33\00:16:08.70
You know, you have
to really understand
00:16:08.73\00:16:10.33
that the covenant
is sacred regardless
00:16:10.37\00:16:13.13
of whether you're
a Christian or not,
00:16:13.17\00:16:14.50
it doesn't matter
'cause I see people
00:16:14.54\00:16:15.87
that are not Christians
00:16:15.90\00:16:17.24
that remain for many
years, it's a covenant.
00:16:17.27\00:16:20.51
It's a covenant,
the promise that,
00:16:20.54\00:16:21.88
you know, through
thick, through marriage,
00:16:21.91\00:16:24.75
through health,
through, you know,
00:16:24.78\00:16:26.11
until death do
you apart, you know.
00:16:26.15\00:16:28.12
And yes, things were provided
00:16:28.15\00:16:29.85
or provisions
were made in the Bible,
00:16:29.88\00:16:32.12
but it had to do mainly
with the person now with God,
00:16:32.15\00:16:34.79
it had to do with the
hardness of people's hearts.
00:16:34.82\00:16:36.86
So perhaps the issue is
not, does God permit or not,
00:16:36.89\00:16:39.89
perhaps the issue is,
00:16:39.93\00:16:41.26
what do you need to
do to softer your heart,
00:16:41.30\00:16:43.87
to come to an understanding
00:16:43.90\00:16:45.23
of where you stand
and where you need to be.
00:16:45.27\00:16:46.60
Okay, let's talk
about those permissions
00:16:46.63\00:16:50.54
because we do
believe most people will say,
00:16:50.57\00:16:52.11
"Well, at least, I know this
00:16:52.14\00:16:54.01
if I can catch you
cheating, I am out."
00:16:54.04\00:16:55.58
You know, that I have
permission by God to be out,
00:16:55.61\00:16:58.41
you know.
00:16:58.45\00:16:59.78
Is that what we go with?
00:16:59.81\00:17:02.48
Brittany, go ahead. Okay.
00:17:02.52\00:17:04.69
Over here, it's
hard to get noticed.
00:17:04.72\00:17:06.19
Okay, go ahead.
00:17:06.22\00:17:07.76
When I threw in the
wrench is what I wanted us to do
00:17:07.79\00:17:09.82
was kind of broaden our horizons
00:17:09.86\00:17:11.49
because sometimes
when people are coming
00:17:11.53\00:17:13.06
with the issue of the
divorce, you want to say,
00:17:13.09\00:17:15.36
"God ordained
this, God did this,"
00:17:15.40\00:17:17.37
where they're looking
at you, and you are like,
00:17:17.40\00:17:19.23
"No, He didn't. This
is not what happened."
00:17:19.27\00:17:21.47
Let's broaden our
horizon and focus on like
00:17:21.50\00:17:23.17
principles as in,
00:17:23.20\00:17:25.14
"Okay, you guys did make
this commitment to each other.
00:17:25.17\00:17:28.74
Yes, God wasn't there then,
00:17:28.78\00:17:30.45
but can we do something
now to make him hear now?
00:17:30.48\00:17:33.35
Can we work at it
where you guys make
00:17:33.38\00:17:35.52
a new contract?
00:17:35.55\00:17:36.89
We knew your vows.
00:17:36.92\00:17:38.39
Are you guys
willing to work at it?"
00:17:38.42\00:17:40.89
Present different ideas to
them versus saying go back to
00:17:40.92\00:17:45.39
when you first began
because like you said,
00:17:45.43\00:17:47.30
some people have
faulty foundations,
00:17:47.33\00:17:49.76
and maybe at this
point, it's time to think of,
00:17:49.80\00:17:52.00
"Okay, how are we going
to rebuild this foundation?
00:17:52.03\00:17:54.34
Let's go to a
marriage counselor."
00:17:54.37\00:17:56.91
I remember I was
watching one of these shows,
00:17:56.94\00:17:59.74
and the guy was saying that
00:17:59.77\00:18:01.84
when he and his
wife got married,
00:18:01.88\00:18:03.51
they were best friends,
00:18:03.55\00:18:04.88
but they were
completely different people.
00:18:04.91\00:18:07.22
And they had to
invest hundreds and hundreds,
00:18:07.25\00:18:10.35
maybe even thousands of
dollars into marital counseling
00:18:10.39\00:18:13.46
so that they can be
able to be who they are now
00:18:13.49\00:18:16.42
and that wonderful couple.
00:18:16.46\00:18:18.29
And like we say
marriage is work,
00:18:18.33\00:18:20.50
so whether God was
there at the beginning,
00:18:20.53\00:18:23.20
but if He's here now,
if there is a possibility,
00:18:23.23\00:18:26.20
work at it to really figure out,
00:18:26.23\00:18:28.54
"Okay, what can we do
00:18:28.57\00:18:29.97
before you just
throw in the towel?"
00:18:30.01\00:18:31.97
And is that even if one person
doesn't want to do the work
00:18:32.01\00:18:36.04
and, you know,
only you do? I think so.
00:18:36.08\00:18:37.75
Yes, because the
principles learned
00:18:37.78\00:18:39.61
in marriage are transferable
to other areas of life.
00:18:39.65\00:18:43.82
So it's not just
for the marriage,
00:18:43.85\00:18:45.69
you're not just
benefiting in the marriage
00:18:45.72\00:18:48.12
but also in other areas of life.
00:18:48.16\00:18:50.43
And so when you
avert or go around,
00:18:50.46\00:18:54.93
you know, trying to
learn these principles
00:18:54.96\00:18:57.60
or understand the principles,
00:18:57.63\00:18:59.60
you're now affecting
other areas by default.
00:18:59.63\00:19:02.50
And that's what y'all
are saying about principles
00:19:02.54\00:19:04.34
because if you are
learning the principles
00:19:04.37\00:19:06.37
taught in the Bible, okay,
00:19:06.41\00:19:08.41
if you know those
principles are the Holy Spirit,
00:19:08.44\00:19:10.88
if He's guiding you with
your decision-making process,
00:19:10.91\00:19:13.82
He's going to lead you
into all truth the Bible says.
00:19:13.85\00:19:16.18
And truth is not going to
be outside of the Word of God,
00:19:16.22\00:19:20.39
you know, that's why
He's given us the Bible.
00:19:20.42\00:19:22.19
You know, a lot
of people can say,
00:19:22.22\00:19:23.56
"Well, the Holy
Spirit told me to do this"
00:19:23.59\00:19:24.99
or "He's
convicted me to do that."
00:19:25.03\00:19:26.46
Whoa, hold on a second,
He's going to tell you to do
00:19:26.49\00:19:28.76
and then...
00:19:28.80\00:19:30.13
Yeah, it doesn't match up with
principles of the Word of God.
00:19:30.17\00:19:32.80
Specifically, it
still will line up.
00:19:32.83\00:19:35.04
It still will line up, you know.
00:19:35.07\00:19:36.40
And it had to be truly
searching for what He...
00:19:36.44\00:19:38.57
And that's the
thing, you have to search
00:19:38.61\00:19:39.94
for what the
Spirit wants you to do,
00:19:39.97\00:19:42.21
not just what you want to do.
00:19:42.24\00:19:43.81
And a lot of us mixed
up spiritual conviction
00:19:43.85\00:19:46.75
with the
emotional choice, you know.
00:19:46.78\00:19:49.25
And so we move off when we feel
00:19:49.28\00:19:51.89
and we think,
"Oh, it's the Spirit
00:19:51.92\00:19:53.25
because He wants me to be happy.
00:19:53.29\00:19:54.62
You know, He wants me
to do this, you know."
00:19:54.66\00:19:56.39
But God is leading, you know,
00:19:56.42\00:19:57.96
our thoughts and His thoughts...
00:19:57.99\00:19:59.36
God has a way that to bring
us to where He wants us to go.
00:19:59.39\00:20:01.70
And Xavier, go
ahead. I think to...
00:20:01.73\00:20:03.37
I want to address, you know,
those people that my sit there
00:20:03.40\00:20:05.20
and be like, "So God
wants me to be in a loveless
00:20:05.23\00:20:07.04
or unhappy marriage,
00:20:07.07\00:20:08.40
so I'm just going
to find a quick way out
00:20:08.44\00:20:10.47
because, you know, this
is, I can't believe this."
00:20:10.51\00:20:12.81
You know, my take on
that is, again, resources.
00:20:12.84\00:20:16.31
You know, if you're the only
one fighting for that marriage,
00:20:16.34\00:20:18.95
you know, are you
getting the resources that,
00:20:18.98\00:20:21.18
you know, are you
getting the support as a church,
00:20:21.22\00:20:23.55
as your friends, whoever,
00:20:23.59\00:20:24.92
are you building
that community around
00:20:24.95\00:20:27.16
because that's what we
were made for community.
00:20:27.19\00:20:28.56
Do you have a
community of supporters
00:20:28.59\00:20:30.16
that can help you
through this not just again?
00:20:30.19\00:20:33.46
I am telling you,
it's extremely hard
00:20:33.50\00:20:36.30
not to want to
throw in the towel.
00:20:36.33\00:20:38.20
Nobody wants to work
hard at anything anymore,
00:20:38.23\00:20:41.10
that's just life, you know.
00:20:41.14\00:20:42.50
We got easy
access to everything.
00:20:42.54\00:20:44.94
We want information,
we google it, you know.
00:20:44.97\00:20:46.91
We got easy access to everything
00:20:46.94\00:20:48.28
so why not easy
access to a new relationship,
00:20:48.31\00:20:49.94
a new marriage, you know...
00:20:49.98\00:20:51.31
And that's what
society teaches you.
00:20:51.35\00:20:52.68
Exactly, so it's a
matter of, you know,
00:20:52.71\00:20:54.75
really getting those
resources and using them.
00:20:54.78\00:20:58.25
And, you know, once you've
exhausted of those resources,
00:20:58.29\00:21:00.42
then, you know,
take it from there
00:21:00.46\00:21:02.02
but use the resources
that you have available
00:21:02.06\00:21:04.76
and exhaust them to the fullest.
00:21:04.79\00:21:06.63
Okay, and let's
please now move down.
00:21:06.66\00:21:08.26
Now you want to say some things.
00:21:08.30\00:21:09.63
You can say if you need
to, but I want to transition us
00:21:09.66\00:21:11.50
to something that
you all are doing.
00:21:11.53\00:21:14.30
You know, I'm going to
use the resources I got,
00:21:14.34\00:21:16.44
I got some married
couple right here, you know.
00:21:16.47\00:21:18.37
What are you all doing
to fireproof your marriage,
00:21:18.41\00:21:20.68
to keep your marriage strong,
and something you could add
00:21:20.71\00:21:22.88
for the viewers to
start doing as well?
00:21:22.91\00:21:25.55
I'm going to answer by
answering your question
00:21:25.58\00:21:27.32
before that about the
divorce thing with Christ.
00:21:27.35\00:21:30.32
You know, sometimes we do say,
00:21:30.35\00:21:32.49
"If they cheat,
I'm ready to go."
00:21:32.52\00:21:34.32
But I don't think
that was the point
00:21:34.36\00:21:35.69
in when Moses wrote the law,
00:21:35.72\00:21:37.23
when Jesus, you
know, confirms it.
00:21:37.26\00:21:38.96
I think what Jesus is saying,
00:21:38.99\00:21:40.33
"Listen, I would if you
will allow me to fix things
00:21:40.36\00:21:44.43
but because the
Lord allows for it."
00:21:44.47\00:21:46.40
You know what I'm saying?
00:21:46.43\00:21:47.77
Then I will step
back, and allow you to make
00:21:47.80\00:21:50.11
that decision or that choice.
00:21:50.14\00:21:51.51
At end of the day is no matter
what we say on this panel,
00:21:51.54\00:21:53.58
we can't stop you
from getting divorce,
00:21:53.61\00:21:55.78
you know what I'm saying?
00:21:55.81\00:21:57.15
But we know that when
we make that decision,
00:21:57.18\00:22:00.55
we know that God
didn't want it to have,
00:22:00.58\00:22:03.08
you know what I'm saying,
00:22:03.12\00:22:04.45
even if we have
legitimate reasons.
00:22:04.49\00:22:06.65
God would rather step
into an impossible situation.
00:22:06.69\00:22:10.89
You know what I am saying?
00:22:10.93\00:22:12.26
And I think that in our,
you know, marriage every day,
00:22:12.29\00:22:17.27
we got to kind of be
very intentional about
00:22:17.30\00:22:19.90
allowing God to do that,
not when it comes to a point
00:22:19.93\00:22:24.41
where there's no turning back
but now, in the small argument,
00:22:24.44\00:22:28.81
you know what I'm
saying, in the small problems,
00:22:28.84\00:22:30.51
in the should we spend
00:22:30.55\00:22:31.91
$50 on food or should I go
00:22:31.95\00:22:33.65
to something else,
you know what I am saying
00:22:33.68\00:22:35.02
or how we're
going to pay the bills.
00:22:35.05\00:22:37.79
You know,
officially I won't paycheck.
00:22:37.82\00:22:39.65
You know, that's a
matter of Jesus says
00:22:39.69\00:22:41.66
something's only
by fasting and prayer.
00:22:41.69\00:22:43.86
So you wanted to
do all practical ways
00:22:43.89\00:22:46.49
to keep yourself from
even going on that road,
00:22:46.53\00:22:49.03
you know, keep God in it
00:22:49.06\00:22:50.50
from beginning to end in
every decision, you know.
00:22:50.53\00:22:53.54
Amen. Amen. Morales family.
00:22:53.57\00:22:56.67
Oh, well, that is
just, you know, again,
00:22:56.71\00:22:59.61
the aspect of you
have to both work.
00:22:59.64\00:23:02.61
You have to both work.
00:23:02.64\00:23:03.98
And there's going to be days
00:23:04.01\00:23:05.35
that the other
person going to work
00:23:05.38\00:23:06.72
a little harder than the
other, you know, vice versa.
00:23:06.75\00:23:09.18
But, you know, you
really have to analyze things,
00:23:09.22\00:23:12.32
you can't just make a
decision based on emotion.
00:23:12.35\00:23:15.06
You know, the Bible says,
00:23:15.09\00:23:16.42
"The heart is
desperately wicked."
00:23:16.46\00:23:18.03
You know, so it's not a matter,
00:23:18.06\00:23:19.73
you know, of
saying today I'm married,
00:23:19.76\00:23:22.36
tomorrow I am not.
00:23:22.40\00:23:23.73
You know, with the way we work,
00:23:23.77\00:23:25.10
you know, it's just
really talking about this
00:23:25.13\00:23:26.84
if we have a disagreement,
00:23:26.87\00:23:28.60
you know, maybe
I'll go for a walk,
00:23:28.64\00:23:30.24
just to breathe out,
breathe in, breathe out.
00:23:30.27\00:23:33.44
But then come back in, you know,
00:23:33.48\00:23:34.81
go back to the drawing board
and say, "Okay, what can we do,
00:23:34.84\00:23:37.85
you know, to fix this
or, you know, arrange that
00:23:37.88\00:23:40.35
or, you know,
have a middle ground
00:23:40.38\00:23:41.78
where we can meet each other?"
00:23:41.82\00:23:43.15
But, again, putting the
center and God into everything
00:23:43.18\00:23:47.52
because that's the
brick and the mortar,
00:23:47.56\00:23:49.06
you know, you
can't have a foundation
00:23:49.09\00:23:51.63
without any concrete.
00:23:51.66\00:23:52.99
Yeah. Yeah. You
know what I like?
00:23:53.03\00:23:54.66
Earlier you said
you don't quit your job
00:23:54.70\00:23:57.33
because, you know,
it's your livelihood.
00:23:57.37\00:23:59.27
And I think if
we viewed marriage
00:23:59.30\00:24:01.70
the way God does as something
00:24:01.74\00:24:03.61
that He gives
us to give us life,
00:24:03.64\00:24:05.87
it is something
that our life depends on,
00:24:05.91\00:24:07.48
I think we'd work
a lot harder at it.
00:24:07.51\00:24:08.84
Yeah, I like that.
That's powerful. I like that.
00:24:08.88\00:24:11.25
There's so many different
tips, you know, that we can do.
00:24:11.28\00:24:12.75
I know for us, you
know, me and my wife,
00:24:12.78\00:24:15.15
and we mentioned that
before about the date night,
00:24:15.18\00:24:16.85
you know, keeping strict
to that date night, you know.
00:24:16.89\00:24:19.79
We alternate who plans it,
so it kind of makes it fun,
00:24:19.82\00:24:21.56
exciting, what can I
think of this time for us to do,
00:24:21.59\00:24:24.19
you know, that's a big thing.
00:24:24.23\00:24:26.09
Communication,
you know, making sure
00:24:26.13\00:24:27.80
that we spend that
time and talking things out
00:24:27.83\00:24:29.50
and spending time
together, you know.
00:24:29.53\00:24:31.87
Now that I travel a lot,
00:24:31.90\00:24:33.23
trying to make sure
I bring her with me.
00:24:33.27\00:24:34.60
Unfortunately, she
can't go with me on this trip.
00:24:34.64\00:24:36.37
But taking, you know, with
me and doing things with her.
00:24:36.40\00:24:38.77
There are some
things that I like to do,
00:24:38.81\00:24:41.28
you know, for
example, I like to bowl,
00:24:41.31\00:24:42.64
you know, I like
to golf, you know,
00:24:42.68\00:24:44.01
but now I have my own ball
and my own shoes and stuff,
00:24:44.05\00:24:46.72
you know, but, you know, hey...
00:24:46.75\00:24:48.65
You know, I need to go out there
00:24:48.68\00:24:50.02
and maybe get her that as
well and have her do it with me,
00:24:50.05\00:24:52.09
you know, because the stuff
that I'm doing with my friends,
00:24:52.12\00:24:55.02
you know, you build all these
relationship with your friends,
00:24:55.06\00:24:57.69
you spend time talking to them,
00:24:57.73\00:24:59.33
you know, the way I am
talking with my wife, you know.
00:24:59.36\00:25:01.36
You know, and so being
intentional about that.
00:25:01.40\00:25:04.97
You know, even with
the intimacy aspect of it,
00:25:05.00\00:25:08.64
you know, being
thoughtful of actually,
00:25:08.67\00:25:12.81
"Okay, I want sex but
maybe my wife wants affection.
00:25:12.84\00:25:16.51
And so being
attentive to her needs
00:25:16.54\00:25:18.25
and doing things she likes."
00:25:18.28\00:25:20.98
Also, the love language,
00:25:21.02\00:25:23.45
lot of people get
mixed up with this
00:25:23.49\00:25:24.82
because they don't even know
00:25:24.85\00:25:26.19
what their
spouse's love language is,
00:25:26.22\00:25:29.79
and they think, "Okay, you know,
00:25:29.82\00:25:31.16
I like receiving gifts,
00:25:31.19\00:25:32.53
I am going to give
you bunch of gifts.
00:25:32.56\00:25:33.90
Now wait a
second, you should accept,
00:25:33.93\00:25:35.30
you know, you should
know that I love you."
00:25:35.33\00:25:36.80
But no, you know,
00:25:36.83\00:25:38.17
that person may need
quality time, you know.
00:25:38.20\00:25:40.74
So you need to
know not to be selfish,
00:25:40.77\00:25:43.10
you need to know what
that individual needs.
00:25:43.14\00:25:45.27
And if you are looking at
it in the in the perspective
00:25:45.31\00:25:48.74
we had just
talked about marriage,
00:25:48.78\00:25:50.81
you're going to
be more intentional
00:25:50.85\00:25:52.35
because you
recognize God loves marriage,
00:25:52.38\00:25:55.68
and He doesn't want
you to get divorced.
00:25:55.72\00:25:59.52
Sister Kim, yeah, go ahead.
00:25:59.55\00:26:01.99
One thing that I know
we've done well, we did it.
00:26:02.02\00:26:04.89
Our marriage license is framed
and on the wall in our bedroom.
00:26:04.93\00:26:11.17
Nice. To remind her that.
00:26:11.20\00:26:14.47
You have license to do
this. It serves as a reminder...
00:26:14.50\00:26:17.47
No, honestly, it
serves as a reminder.
00:26:17.51\00:26:21.04
And sometimes, you're
just passing out just,
00:26:21.08\00:26:23.01
you know, be
passing through the day
00:26:23.04\00:26:24.85
and I'll glance up at
it, sometimes I smile like,
00:26:24.88\00:26:27.38
"Okay, yeah."
00:26:27.42\00:26:28.98
And then sometimes,
00:26:29.02\00:26:30.35
it's like I'm
still in that stage
00:26:30.39\00:26:32.42
where I am, you
know, it's still hitting me
00:26:32.45\00:26:34.06
that I'm married.
Right, right, right.
00:26:34.09\00:26:36.12
So sometimes
that's the response,
00:26:36.16\00:26:38.66
sometimes it could
be after an argument,
00:26:38.69\00:26:41.16
and you know you're
upset, and you glance at it
00:26:41.20\00:26:44.00
even though you
really don't want to,
00:26:44.03\00:26:46.03
and it's a reminder, you know,
of that decision that was made.
00:26:46.07\00:26:51.07
Right. Right. I like that.
00:26:51.11\00:26:52.64
I think to add more. Yeah.
00:26:52.67\00:26:54.51
I always remember that
loveless doesn't mean hopeless.
00:26:54.54\00:26:57.55
And don't be exclusive
with the spouse be inclusive,
00:26:57.58\00:27:02.22
meaning include each other
00:27:02.25\00:27:03.69
in each other's
activities, you know.
00:27:03.72\00:27:05.25
If something that
she likes that, you know,
00:27:05.29\00:27:06.89
you might not feel
manly enough to do.
00:27:06.92\00:27:09.86
To simplify
that you step forward
00:27:09.89\00:27:12.03
and say, "You know,
I want to do this you."
00:27:12.06\00:27:14.10
She might say,
"No, you don't have to."
00:27:14.13\00:27:15.46
And then you can,
you know, say, "Okay."
00:27:15.50\00:27:17.77
But at least you made the effort
00:27:17.80\00:27:19.50
to want to be part of,
00:27:19.53\00:27:21.04
you know, together
like my wife and I,
00:27:21.07\00:27:23.20
I included her in
paint ball one day.
00:27:23.24\00:27:24.84
Yeah, we are going
paint balling as a couple,
00:27:24.87\00:27:27.08
so be inclusive of it.
00:27:27.11\00:27:28.94
Okay. Well, that's good enough.
00:27:28.98\00:27:30.51
That will probably
end us right there.
00:27:30.55\00:27:32.11
Some of you all thinking,
"Man, these guys are newlyweds,
00:27:32.15\00:27:34.12
what they can say about this."
00:27:34.15\00:27:35.52
But the reality is, you
know, I myself have dealt with,
00:27:35.55\00:27:39.02
struggling with, you know,
00:27:39.05\00:27:40.42
"Wow, I'm actually married now
and having to really do things
00:27:40.46\00:27:42.59
to keep this marriage working,"
so please, take this seriously,
00:27:42.62\00:27:45.59
know that God loves marriage,
He does not like divorce,
00:27:45.63\00:27:49.23
fight for your
marriage as a man, as a woman,
00:27:49.26\00:27:51.33
you have to fight for it.
00:27:51.37\00:27:52.93
All right, God bless you.
00:27:52.97\00:27:54.64
At the end of the day,
00:27:54.67\00:27:56.00
always remember,
make pure choices.
00:27:56.04\00:27:57.37
God bless.
00:27:57.41\00:27:58.74