The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Hello, and
welcome to Pure Choices.
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I'm your host,
Pastor Joshua Nelson.
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I'm so glad you
decided to join us today.
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The title for today's
topic is Bad Marriage.
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We're gonna talk about this.
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It's very
sensitive and touchy topic,
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but we want to make
sure we do it justice.
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Let's just pause for a moment
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to ask the Spirit to be with us.
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Heavenly Father, we ask
You would send Your Spirit
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to guide us
through this discussion,
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in Jesus' name we pray, amen.
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Amen.
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All right, let's
introduce the panel.
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To my left, I
have Kimberly Douglas,
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and she is the wife
of this man over here,
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Pastor KP Douglas,
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who is the husband
of this lady over here.
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All right, and then over here
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we have Chaplain Xavier Morales,
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who is the husband
of this woman right here
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who is Brittany Hill-Morales,
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who is the wife
of this man here,
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so we're happy to have
the married couples here.
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And, of course, I'm
Pastor Joshua Nelson,
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my wife is the
beautiful Kimberly Nelson.
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And, unfortunately
she's not here with us,
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but we have a
group of married people
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on this set today.
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And we're going to discuss
this topic of bad marriage.
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It's a serious topic
because we're talking about
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abusive relationships
and marriage relationships
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that turn bad or go
wrong, but before we talk about
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what abusive
relationship looks like
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or abusive marriage looks like,
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can we first just
kind of start talking about
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what a good
relationship looks like,
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what a good marriage looks like
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because I think that
sometimes people have a bad view
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of what a
relationship should look like.
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They don't know what a
good marriage looks like
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because maybe
they've never seen it,
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maybe their family
didn't have a good marriage.
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They never saw emulated.
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And so, if we
could just take a moment
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from the couples,
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and let's talk about
what a good marriage...
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'Cause I know that we were,
you know, we're newly weds,
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but let's talk
about as much as we can,
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so I'm gonna ask the
Morales' to go first.
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Okay, for me, I've
been in bad relationships,
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and how I knew Xavier was
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and I had a healthy relationship
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was this one
question that each couple
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that needs to ask themselves,
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is this person helping me
in my relationship with God?
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Am I drawing closer
to God, that even though
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this person frustrates
me, gets under my skin,
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they say you want to
strangle them, just joking,
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but do I draw closer to
God despite all of this,
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doesn't make me
want to pray for them
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or doesn't make me
want to be a better person.
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How is that really factoring
into your relationship.
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If the person makes you
not want to speak to God,
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makes you trying to draw
further and further away,
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that's kind of what I
would say is an indicator
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of a healthy relationship.
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Okay, all right.
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I've actually been in a
bad marriage before myself.
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And healthy
indicator of a good marriage
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from what I've
come to understand
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and know is this person
similar to what she said,
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pushing closer
towards Christ, you know,
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in situations I've been
in has always been, you know,
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where it pulls me away.
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And it doesn't edify me. Okay.
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So one of the key
factors, at least for me,
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in my viewpoint is, is
this person drawing you,
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in spite of
imperfections and everything,
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is this person pushing
you to get closer to Christ.
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Yeah, and
that's a good framework
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to operate off of
your relationship with God
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because you don't want to
lose your relationship with God
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because of a relationship
with a man or with a woman.
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The Douglas', sorry
y'all can't sit together but...
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Ladies first.
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I would say do you
genuinely like the person.
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Okay.
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You know, in those times
when it's not all happy-happy,
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joy-joy, you know,
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and things are
little more calm, you know,
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can you spend time
just doing nothing,
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enjoying each other's company.
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Yeah.
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And I think another
indicator of a healthy marriage
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is just being able
to dig your knees in
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when it's time
to do the hard work
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and stick around
to do the hard work.
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Okay, I like that.
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I think, of
course, good communication
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is a, you know,
is a good parameter
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or good measure for
healthy relationship,
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good communication,
and not just communication
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when things are good, but
are you able to communicate
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even when things are
not necessarily going bad,
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I think that's
definitely a marker.
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I had another
one in mind... Okay.
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Well, I'm gonna
ask you, you know,
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maybe I'll say it hopefully,
what my wife would say,
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I think an indicator
of good relationship is,
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are you safe, do you feel safe.
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If you feel safe to
be yourself, safe to,
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you know, share your
problems, your issues,
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or you're always
kind of wondering
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if that person is
going to do something to me
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based of what I say, what I do.
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Can I share my feelings openly.
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You know, a good
relationship you're going to...
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It's like a
relationship with God,
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you know, you're going to...
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If you have open
relationship with God, you know,
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He loves you regardless,
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it's a love that is everlasting.
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What's that big
word I'm looking for
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no matter what you
do, He'll still love you?
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Unconditional love.
Unconditional love, thank you.
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You know, unconditional
love, that's the kind of...
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Huge word. Yeah, I know.
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The kind of word, the
kind of love you need to have
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for your spouse, you know,
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and that will
make you feel safe,
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but you're hiding,
and you're, you know,
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having to worry about
what you say, you know,
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that's not really indicator
of a good relationship.
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So you want to get going.
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I think I remember, now I
was also going to say that
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even a certain amount
of arguing or disagreement
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may also be signs of
a healthy relationship,
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at least the
willingness to argue through
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or to disagree
without being disagreeable.
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It's also a healthy,
you know, way to tell
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when you're in a
healthy relationship.
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Let's talk about
arguing a little bit, you know,
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how should you argue?
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Because I've argued in
some crazy ways you could.
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As monotone as possible,
you know, well, with me,
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you know, arguing with
the understanding that,
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you know, we're trying
to come to a resolution
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which sometimes I'm
not gonna lie, sometimes,
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you know, our arguments
don't really start that way.
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But at some point of argument
I'm like, listen, you know,
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we're really trying
to come to a resolve.
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You know, the point of
this is not for me to be right,
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you to be wrong or you
to be right, me to be wrong.
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The point is so that
we can come to resolution,
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you know, because we
really just want to grow.
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But sometimes, some of
our most heated arguments
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probably helped us
the most honestly, so.
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Yeah, and I mean it
just depends on the couple,
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I mean, you know,
your answer as well.
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I know for us, we've
been working through this,
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you know, still working through,
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I'm sure we'll always
be working through this,
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trying to see how
we best communicate.
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You know, for me, I'm
used to just going hard
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like we just argue,
that's just the way to do it,
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I'm not trying to be, you know,
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this is just getting,
just get it all out, you know,
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but my wife is more,
you know, quiet-type,
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she doesn't
really like to conflict.
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She wants to just, you
know, let's just set aside
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and just come back together.
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I'm like no, we need to deal
with this right now, you know,
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let's do it now,
but I've had to learn,
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and I'm learning
how to, you know,
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change my way of
things and allow her
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to have sometime
to just set aside
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and just collect her
thoughts, come together,
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and not to be abusive
because if I'm speaking over her
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or talking down to
her, it may be something
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that's normal for me,
but because of my wife,
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how she perceives it,
it's not normal to her,
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and so to her,
that would be an abuse.
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I could resonate with that.
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Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know,
arguments are something that,
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like you said,
we're going to have to do.
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I mean if you want to
call it heavy discussion,
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you're not always
gonna see things eye to eye,
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but how you do
it, so what about you,
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what about you,
Morales', some of the tips
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you can give for arguing?
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I think our premarital counselor
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told us, what was it?
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Soft, slow, and low
or something like that.
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Watching your tone and
how you're communicating.
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And I think that I've
learned in my classes,
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my family life classes
was to also use I statements,
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and say I feel this
way when you do this
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versus saying you were stupid,
you were this, you were that...
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Basically, focusing
on what exactly was done,
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and how it made you feel so that
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your significant other can
know exactly what's going on,
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and they're
less, I guess defensive
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when you use I statements.
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One time, we did entire argument
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with I statement,
and it was really nice.
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Actually, it was.
It was interesting.
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We're actually learning. Yeah.
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I was very confused
by the whole end of it,
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but I don't know
whether I should be mad
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or should be okay.
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Right. Right, yeah.
At the end, we were okay.
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Yeah, and learning to listen
to each other too, you know,
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because I truly
hear what you're saying,
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you are hurt by
this, this is how you feel,
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you know, I have to
validate your feelings,
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and I even need to reflect
back to what you're saying
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'cause a lot of
times when arguing
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you're trying to
think of your argument,
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you're not
listening to that person.
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And I think if you
listen to that person,
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or forced to reflect back
to them what they're saying,
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sometimes you forget
what your argument was,
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you know, and so it forces
you to really listen to them,
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so that was good.
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So let's transitioned in,
if you're already transition
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to talk about some
signs of abuse, okay?
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What are some things that
if someone is in a relationship
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right now, in a
marriage relationship,
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even dating relationship,
and they are wondering
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if what's going on
in their relationship
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is considered abuse.
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We have six things we
are going to give them,
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as to these things
are signs of abuse,
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different types of
abuse, okay, and I'm gonna have
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Chaplain Xavier to go
ahead with the first one.
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The first one is physical abuse.
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There is no need, and
I know different cultures
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do different things, but
there is, even biblically,
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there is no need to
lay your hand on a woman
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or vice versa for the
woman to lay hand on the man.
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Nowadays, we, and I
work as a police chaplain,
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and there's been a
rise on women abusing men,
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and men coming
forward which doesn't make you
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less of a man to do so.
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You know, abuse is
abuse, it doesn't matter
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what the sex is, but however...
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Let's all make that clear.
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You can be abused if
you are a man as well,
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and it doesn't
make you less of a man
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if you admit to
that or seek help
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because nobody, you're
saying should be hit or...
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Yeah,
physically abused. Exactly.
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You know,
'cause it can escalate,
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it can be something
as a simple shove to,
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I've seen cases where
they shoot each other,
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kill each other.
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Wow.
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It can escalate very, very,
very quickly, and there again,
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there is no reason for
that if it gets to be that bad,
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then you need to
seek help immediately.
00:11:07.23\00:11:09.16
Yeah.
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So is there a simple
shove or just, you know,
00:11:10.57\00:11:13.74
someone out of anger,
00:11:13.77\00:11:15.10
just doing a
light slap on their arm,
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is that still
abusive, and if it's, you know,
00:11:17.54\00:11:20.44
in the heat of the
argument or something
00:11:20.48\00:11:21.88
that just
happens once in a while?
00:11:21.91\00:11:23.68
It still, again, according
to pretty much all 50 states,
00:11:23.71\00:11:29.25
the law is that when
you are arguing like that,
00:11:29.28\00:11:32.25
and as in law
enforcement, you know,
00:11:32.29\00:11:34.06
you know that when
it's verbal, it's verbal.
00:11:34.09\00:11:36.62
Yeah. That's fine.
00:11:36.66\00:11:38.33
In the regards to the
law, but when you automatically
00:11:38.36\00:11:41.66
put your hand on
somebody, whether it be just,
00:11:41.70\00:11:43.97
I've seen in simple as a
gash, it's not, you know,
00:11:44.00\00:11:47.47
that's against the law.
00:11:47.50\00:11:48.87
You do not need to
put your hands on anybody.
00:11:48.90\00:11:50.84
Okay.
00:11:50.87\00:11:52.21
All right, that's pretty clear,
so let's go to our next one
00:11:52.24\00:11:54.01
which is one that people often
don't think about too much,
00:11:54.04\00:11:56.88
it's emotional.
00:11:56.91\00:11:58.28
Yeah, that's another
huge one, emotional abuse,
00:11:58.31\00:12:01.18
and yet it's so hard to prove.
00:12:01.22\00:12:04.99
It goes into simple
things like embarrassing
00:12:05.02\00:12:07.86
the other person in
public, talking down to them,
00:12:07.89\00:12:12.33
spying on them,
probably sending text messages
00:12:12.36\00:12:14.70
every two
seconds, where are you,
00:12:14.73\00:12:16.60
what are you doing,
why are you doing this,
00:12:16.63\00:12:18.93
probably just making the
person even feel inadequate.
00:12:18.97\00:12:23.51
Those are all
elements of emotional abuse,
00:12:23.54\00:12:25.37
and it's so much harder
to prove and file a claim on,
00:12:25.41\00:12:28.01
but it does happen.
00:12:28.04\00:12:29.61
Okay, so if someone is...
00:12:29.64\00:12:31.91
You know, you are
an emotional wreck
00:12:31.95\00:12:34.92
from being around
your significant other,
00:12:34.95\00:12:38.09
you know, that is abuse.
00:12:38.12\00:12:40.76
Yeah, it's like
you're feeling...
00:12:40.79\00:12:42.79
You don't feel
happy, you don't feel safe,
00:12:42.82\00:12:45.19
you just feel depressed,
those are all different elements
00:12:45.23\00:12:49.10
of you're probably
with the wrong person.
00:12:49.13\00:12:51.07
Yeah.
00:12:51.10\00:12:52.93
Okay, let's go to our
next one, that's mental.
00:12:52.97\00:12:57.24
Verbal. There's
also verbal abuse.
00:12:57.27\00:13:00.01
This one I've kind
of experienced myself
00:13:00.04\00:13:04.25
in a lot of ways
really in relationships,
00:13:04.28\00:13:07.68
and I'm not gonna lie, maybe
because of generational curses,
00:13:07.72\00:13:09.92
I may have been on
the wrong side of that,
00:13:09.95\00:13:13.02
but verbal abuse
is as serious as well.
00:13:13.05\00:13:14.82
You know, just talking down
to a person, yelling at them,
00:13:14.86\00:13:16.66
always being loud.
00:13:16.69\00:13:18.79
I know I grew up in a situation
where I've seen my mother,
00:13:18.83\00:13:22.43
you know, constantly
being shouted at, you know,
00:13:22.46\00:13:25.20
and I mean all
the time in some of
00:13:25.23\00:13:27.24
the weirdest
situations and places,
00:13:27.27\00:13:28.97
I can't even really
describe it, you know.
00:13:29.00\00:13:31.17
And honestly, I used
to always say my mother
00:13:31.21\00:13:33.27
is like the most
patient person I've ever met
00:13:33.31\00:13:36.11
because she really...
00:13:36.14\00:13:37.51
And I don't know
if it was patience
00:13:37.55\00:13:38.88
or, you know, maybe
just bad decision-making,
00:13:38.91\00:13:40.85
but she kind of
put up with it anyway.
00:13:40.88\00:13:42.98
But, you know, verbal
abuse is real serious,
00:13:43.02\00:13:45.29
and it's one of
those things that
00:13:45.32\00:13:46.65
you can just
mistake for arguing.
00:13:46.69\00:13:48.16
You know, but
like we talked earlier,
00:13:48.19\00:13:49.69
arguing is a
balance, it's more of a,
00:13:49.72\00:13:51.53
you know, healthy argument,
00:13:51.56\00:13:52.89
so communication
process is a conversation,
00:13:52.93\00:13:55.16
even though it's a
heated conversation,
00:13:55.20\00:13:57.00
but verbal abuse
is more, you know,
00:13:57.03\00:13:58.63
not letting the other
person talk, yelling at them,
00:13:58.67\00:14:00.97
using expletive words,
or whatever the case is of.
00:14:01.00\00:14:03.37
Yeah, and, you
know, in your relationship
00:14:03.41\00:14:05.97
you need to be
clear on all these things,
00:14:06.01\00:14:08.31
on what level you're
going to take this to.
00:14:08.34\00:14:09.94
I mean, you know,
you need to understand
00:14:09.98\00:14:11.35
how to speak to someone in
the general anyways, you know.
00:14:11.38\00:14:13.58
Something you
shouldn't say at all,
00:14:13.62\00:14:14.98
but I know that culturally
there are sometimes people,
00:14:15.02\00:14:16.79
you know, speak
in different tones,
00:14:16.82\00:14:18.29
you know, in different ways.
00:14:18.32\00:14:19.65
But that's definitely a
big one, the verbal abuse.
00:14:19.69\00:14:22.59
All right, now,
mine is economic abuse.
00:14:22.62\00:14:26.49
You know, a lot of
times people don't think about
00:14:26.53\00:14:28.73
this one either but
if you have a situation
00:14:28.76\00:14:32.03
where, you know,
you're in a situation
00:14:32.07\00:14:34.80
where, you know,
you're not able to get
00:14:34.84\00:14:36.17
into your own bank account,
you don't have your money,
00:14:36.20\00:14:40.21
your spouse is
withholding the car from you,
00:14:40.24\00:14:42.11
you can't go where
you want to go, you know,
00:14:42.14\00:14:45.28
they are tapping
to your bank accounts.
00:14:45.31\00:14:47.12
You know, I've known
situations where people have,
00:14:47.15\00:14:49.45
they have deleted bank accounts
from individuals, you know,
00:14:49.48\00:14:51.75
taking their money, you
know, called in, you know,
00:14:51.79\00:14:54.92
with their own
information 'cause they know
00:14:54.96\00:14:56.29
all of the information,
and act like they were them,
00:14:56.32\00:14:58.13
and took all
their stuff, and just...
00:14:58.16\00:14:59.49
You know, that
is abuse, you know,
00:14:59.53\00:15:00.86
you should be
able to still operate
00:15:00.90\00:15:03.30
in some level of
independence, you know,
00:15:03.33\00:15:05.63
even in marriage in
terms of what you have
00:15:05.67\00:15:07.87
and what they have.
00:15:07.90\00:15:09.24
And so that's
happening in your relationship
00:15:09.27\00:15:12.11
that is considered abuse.
00:15:12.14\00:15:13.51
And also another one
is education, you know.
00:15:13.54\00:15:15.71
If they are stopping you
from getting a higher education
00:15:15.74\00:15:17.65
or higher learning,
you are being abused
00:15:17.68\00:15:21.68
because you should
be able to, you know,
00:15:21.72\00:15:23.39
rise to whatever
level you want to rise
00:15:23.42\00:15:25.52
and learn what
you need to learn.
00:15:25.55\00:15:27.02
Or even if they hold
their education over you.
00:15:27.06\00:15:29.02
Over you. Yeah,
that's a good one.
00:15:29.06\00:15:30.39
Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Let's go to another one.
00:15:30.43\00:15:32.59
So another one is mental abuse.
00:15:32.63\00:15:36.10
And it's quite
similar to emotional abuse,
00:15:36.13\00:15:39.67
in that it's
sometimes hard to detect
00:15:39.70\00:15:42.50
but if you find that you feel,
00:15:42.54\00:15:46.04
you're constantly
feeling like the cause of
00:15:46.07\00:15:49.38
or the problem in a situation
00:15:49.41\00:15:53.88
and the person is constantly
making you feel guilty,
00:15:53.92\00:15:57.75
that can be a
sign of mental abuse.
00:15:57.79\00:16:00.39
Yeah, yeah.
00:16:00.42\00:16:01.76
And, you know, in
these situations, again,
00:16:01.79\00:16:07.36
I would suggest, you know,
00:16:07.40\00:16:09.13
speaking to a trusted individual
00:16:09.16\00:16:11.63
whether it would be a pastor.
00:16:11.67\00:16:13.50
Because it's
difficult, it can be difficult
00:16:13.54\00:16:16.44
I imagine to go through
these different, you know,
00:16:16.47\00:16:19.97
types of abuse
and be by yourself.
00:16:20.01\00:16:22.98
Sure, sure.
00:16:23.01\00:16:24.35
Yeah, I mean I know individuals
who would play mind games on
00:16:24.38\00:16:27.12
with their wives or whatever
00:16:27.15\00:16:28.48
and they will just
twist things around,
00:16:28.52\00:16:30.09
make them think
they are going crazy.
00:16:30.12\00:16:31.79
And then the individual
really thinks that, man,
00:16:31.82\00:16:33.15
they are the problem, they have
a duty to fix this individual.
00:16:33.19\00:16:35.56
I mean, you know, and they get
all twisted up and it's just,
00:16:35.59\00:16:38.09
you know, it's really sick
because they are, you know,
00:16:38.13\00:16:41.60
they are playing
with their emotions
00:16:41.63\00:16:43.26
but they're also
playing with their mind,
00:16:43.30\00:16:44.63
and causing to think
differently about themselves.
00:16:44.67\00:16:47.17
And it's going to affect them
in every facet of their life,
00:16:47.20\00:16:50.01
you know, so it's just horrible.
00:16:50.04\00:16:51.71
And this last one actually is
00:16:51.74\00:16:54.41
another one that is really
big which is sexual abuse.
00:16:54.44\00:16:57.61
And, you know, you'd oftentimes
don't think of that either
00:16:57.65\00:16:59.68
because you
think well, you know,
00:16:59.71\00:17:01.85
how can we really be abused
sexually in your marriage,
00:17:01.88\00:17:04.82
you know.
00:17:04.85\00:17:06.19
But I believe and you
all can challenge me on this.
00:17:06.22\00:17:08.06
I believe that you can be raped
even in a marriage, you know,
00:17:08.09\00:17:12.16
if you're, you know,
00:17:12.19\00:17:14.36
doing something
against someone's will.
00:17:14.40\00:17:15.73
If you have discussed,
let's using protection
00:17:15.76\00:17:18.10
or contraception and
you're not doing that.
00:17:18.13\00:17:20.20
If you're forcing your
will upon somebody else,
00:17:20.24\00:17:22.24
you know, hitting them or
making them do sexual acts
00:17:22.27\00:17:24.01
that they don't want to
do or not comfortable doing.
00:17:24.04\00:17:27.61
These are all
things that you need
00:17:27.64\00:17:28.98
to have a conversation about,
00:17:29.01\00:17:31.01
and ultimately
like I said before,
00:17:31.05\00:17:32.71
you need to feel safe
especially in the marriage bed,
00:17:32.75\00:17:35.58
all right.
00:17:35.62\00:17:36.95
So those are some
things that, you know,
00:17:36.99\00:17:39.52
all of us can take
into consideration.
00:17:39.55\00:17:40.89
Our viewers can
look at in terms of
00:17:40.92\00:17:43.12
what is considered abuse.
00:17:43.16\00:17:46.36
Let's continue with this
00:17:46.39\00:17:48.33
and finding some
type of solutions.
00:17:48.36\00:17:50.07
If you're in a
situation like this,
00:17:50.10\00:17:52.20
what are some things
that you would advice
00:17:52.23\00:17:54.10
or give hope to
individuals who may be
00:17:54.14\00:17:56.64
in an abusive relationship?
00:17:56.67\00:17:58.87
Well, if... Go ahead, man.
00:17:58.91\00:18:01.14
Oh, well, of course,
they're like, you know,
00:18:01.18\00:18:04.81
statistics show that it
takes about seven times,
00:18:04.85\00:18:07.45
it takes about seven times
00:18:07.48\00:18:08.82
and they're
still persisting that.
00:18:08.85\00:18:12.52
And the best thing, you know,
00:18:12.55\00:18:14.96
recommend for
that situation if it...
00:18:14.99\00:18:16.86
In my case, I talked
about physical abuse.
00:18:16.89\00:18:20.20
If it gets physical,
you know, understanding that
00:18:20.23\00:18:22.66
there is shelters,
there is even your own church,
00:18:22.70\00:18:26.74
you know, there is
places you can go to,
00:18:26.77\00:18:28.74
there is resources available,
Not to necessarily, you know,
00:18:28.77\00:18:33.68
hinder you or anything like that
00:18:33.71\00:18:35.04
but to help you to
deal with it and overcome it
00:18:35.08\00:18:38.75
in whatever situation you may be
00:18:38.78\00:18:40.92
and there's a solution for it.
00:18:40.95\00:18:42.48
There is solution.
00:18:42.52\00:18:43.85
There is hope,
there is hope. All right.
00:18:43.89\00:18:45.65
I think maybe one of the issues
we're dealing with in society
00:18:45.69\00:18:48.92
is that abuse is
really taken lightly,
00:18:48.96\00:18:52.29
probably because a lot people
are being abused or abusers.
00:18:52.33\00:18:55.26
And so it's really
not one of those problems
00:18:55.30\00:18:56.63
that we talk about.
00:18:56.67\00:18:58.00
Matter of fact is it's really
a matter of just nowadays,
00:18:58.03\00:19:01.90
you know, I can just
recall a famous football player,
00:19:01.94\00:19:06.21
you know, abused his wife
and parents addressed it...
00:19:06.24\00:19:09.74
I've seen a parent
address her child up as a guy,
00:19:09.78\00:19:13.21
you know, and let the child walk
00:19:13.25\00:19:15.25
with a doll in his hand
and holding a doll by the hair.
00:19:15.28\00:19:18.92
You know, and that
wasn't the only person,
00:19:18.95\00:19:20.46
there's actually a
few people, you know,
00:19:20.49\00:19:22.22
post it online themselves
dressed as this individual
00:19:22.26\00:19:24.83
abusing a doll
as if to say it was,
00:19:24.86\00:19:27.30
you know, something funny.
00:19:27.33\00:19:28.76
You know, and I
think that, you know,
00:19:28.80\00:19:30.23
you have to realize that
abuse is a very serious thing.
00:19:30.27\00:19:34.34
You know, if I could
just go a little bit further,
00:19:34.37\00:19:35.90
I was counseling a
couple for marriage
00:19:35.94\00:19:38.37
and one of the
things about abuse is that
00:19:38.41\00:19:39.81
it's also progressive.
00:19:39.84\00:19:41.38
So mental abuse,
verbal abuse, emotional abuse,
00:19:41.41\00:19:44.65
all these can and oftentimes
will turn into physical abuse.
00:19:44.68\00:19:47.65
Right, right.
00:19:47.68\00:19:49.02
You know, I had a
situation where I was counseling
00:19:49.05\00:19:50.39
and I noticed,
it wasn't told to me
00:19:50.42\00:19:52.15
but I noticed
there was verbal abuse.
00:19:52.19\00:19:54.26
And even in the
counseling session,
00:19:54.29\00:19:55.69
I asked them about
their parent's interaction
00:19:55.72\00:19:57.49
with each other, their
interaction with their parents
00:19:57.53\00:19:58.89
and found out that
in their family history
00:19:58.93\00:20:01.13
there was abuse.
00:20:01.16\00:20:02.56
You know, and so it
was a red flag for me.
00:20:02.60\00:20:04.50
And I talked to them about
it, I talked to them about it
00:20:04.53\00:20:06.57
until eventually
I got a phone call
00:20:06.60\00:20:08.57
from the woman saying, you know,
00:20:08.60\00:20:09.94
he pushed me and
broke a coffee table.
00:20:09.97\00:20:11.91
But I had already
spoken to her about, you know,
00:20:11.94\00:20:13.98
what she should look out for,
00:20:14.01\00:20:15.34
I told her I had seen red flags.
00:20:15.38\00:20:17.01
But she, you know,
obviously took it lightly
00:20:17.05\00:20:19.88
and it progressed
to physical abuse.
00:20:19.91\00:20:22.25
So it's something you
got to take very seriously,
00:20:22.28\00:20:24.75
if you see the
signs you got to act.
00:20:24.79\00:20:26.25
Yeah, and I was
going to add to that.
00:20:26.29\00:20:28.02
You know, I was
thinking about this as well,
00:20:28.06\00:20:29.56
that someone may
say or, you know,
00:20:29.59\00:20:31.29
usually I'm gonna say
a woman is being abused
00:20:31.33\00:20:32.99
a lot of times, then you say
I don't want to rock the boat,
00:20:33.03\00:20:34.86
I don't want to say
anything, disturb anything,
00:20:34.90\00:20:36.30
I want to keep things
how it is because, you know,
00:20:36.33\00:20:37.67
it's not too bad, I
can handle it, you know.
00:20:37.70\00:20:39.63
But you may be able
to think you'll handle it
00:20:39.67\00:20:42.60
but what about your
children who are watching.
00:20:42.64\00:20:45.14
It's going to
create another culture
00:20:45.17\00:20:46.64
within your family and
generation to generation
00:20:46.68\00:20:48.41
they are going to get abused.
00:20:48.44\00:20:49.78
And so if nothing else, do it
so that it will stop the cycle,
00:20:49.81\00:20:52.78
you know, speak out
because it will stop the cycle.
00:20:52.81\00:20:55.15
If I can also add to
that, sometimes we think that
00:20:55.18\00:20:58.75
abuse happens in isolation,
00:20:58.79\00:21:01.72
it will be just
economic, say, or just physical.
00:21:01.76\00:21:06.36
Right.
00:21:06.39\00:21:07.73
Oftentimes, it's more
than one type of abuse
00:21:07.76\00:21:11.33
happening at the same time.
00:21:11.37\00:21:14.07
And I think that for
someone in the situation,
00:21:14.10\00:21:17.64
one of the hardest things is
to first of all wrap your mind
00:21:17.67\00:21:20.91
around what's going on.
00:21:20.94\00:21:22.68
And then to get over
that may be initial sense
00:21:22.71\00:21:26.75
of embarrassment
like what might I've done
00:21:26.78\00:21:29.72
to cause this
because oftentimes,
00:21:29.75\00:21:32.12
I know sometimes when
there is an issue with us,
00:21:32.15\00:21:34.72
I look at okay,
well, what did I do,
00:21:34.76\00:21:36.62
did I play a part in this.
00:21:36.66\00:21:38.29
But, you know, as we
said abuse is very different
00:21:38.33\00:21:41.60
from an argument and so
with something this serious,
00:21:41.63\00:21:46.50
it's not necessarily anything
that you as an individual did.
00:21:46.53\00:21:50.91
The problem might
not even be with you.
00:21:50.94\00:21:52.97
It might be the
other person. Oh, yeah.
00:21:53.01\00:21:54.74
So taking those steps
to seek help from somebody
00:21:54.78\00:21:58.78
who is trained in this area.
00:21:58.81\00:22:02.15
Yeah, and thank
you for saying that
00:22:02.18\00:22:03.52
because please don't think that
00:22:03.55\00:22:04.89
you're the cause of abuse
where you should take this.
00:22:04.92\00:22:06.96
No matter what
you do that's bad,
00:22:06.99\00:22:08.42
you did not
deserve to be abused.
00:22:08.46\00:22:10.06
Because think of it like this,
if you're married to someone
00:22:10.09\00:22:12.46
and it's supposed to be a
union like as if you're married
00:22:12.49\00:22:14.16
like in a marriage relationship,
00:22:14.20\00:22:16.73
it's supposed to
be like your relation
00:22:16.77\00:22:18.60
with Jesus, you know.
00:22:18.63\00:22:19.97
They are supposed to
be like Jesus to you.
00:22:20.00\00:22:21.67
The husband is
supposed to be like
00:22:21.70\00:22:23.04
Jesus to the wife, you know.
00:22:23.07\00:22:24.41
And so, if you're in
that type of relationship,
00:22:24.44\00:22:26.74
think about all the
bad things we do to God.
00:22:26.78\00:22:29.34
And what does the Bible say?
00:22:29.38\00:22:30.71
While we were yet sinners,
00:22:30.75\00:22:32.08
He died for us,
He showed us love.
00:22:32.11\00:22:34.82
So even in the worst situation,
the one who is ultimate lover
00:22:34.85\00:22:37.72
shows that he doesn't abuse you
00:22:37.75\00:22:39.35
when you're bad,
he actually loves you.
00:22:39.39\00:22:41.82
So there's nothing you
shouldn't be able to do
00:22:41.86\00:22:43.49
in your relationship
that should be like, oh,
00:22:43.53\00:22:44.86
I deserve to be
abused, I deserve this.
00:22:44.89\00:22:46.90
No, if the person is
truly sold out to Christ,
00:22:46.93\00:22:49.36
they will still love
you and show love to you
00:22:49.40\00:22:51.47
inspite of how you act.
00:22:51.50\00:22:53.50
And one thing to
remember is that a lot of times
00:22:53.54\00:22:56.00
people stay hoping
they can change the person,
00:22:56.04\00:22:58.67
or pray that it
goes away, you know.
00:22:58.71\00:23:01.54
Most of the time statistically,
realistically shows
00:23:01.58\00:23:05.21
that a lot of
the times, you know,
00:23:05.25\00:23:06.78
most of the time
it doesn't. Yeah.
00:23:06.82\00:23:08.15
You know, unless
you seek the proper help
00:23:08.18\00:23:10.12
that person needs
or you need, you know,
00:23:10.15\00:23:12.95
these things
progress very, very quickly.
00:23:12.99\00:23:16.02
And, you know, like I said
00:23:16.06\00:23:17.96
it's not just man
against woman, you know,
00:23:17.99\00:23:20.13
predominantly
it's men against woman
00:23:20.16\00:23:21.53
but there is also, you
know, women against men.
00:23:21.56\00:23:23.43
Yeah.
00:23:23.47\00:23:24.80
And, you know,
though both issues need
00:23:24.83\00:23:26.17
to be addressed, both
sides need to be heard,
00:23:26.20\00:23:28.27
and both sides need to
deal with the fact that,
00:23:28.30\00:23:30.01
you know, you need to
find the proper resources
00:23:30.04\00:23:34.34
that are necessary
and, you know, if it happens
00:23:34.38\00:23:37.21
to be a local church,
then the pastor, you know,
00:23:37.25\00:23:39.71
needs to have
the ability to refer,
00:23:39.75\00:23:43.39
make sure to act on
it, don't let it get worst,
00:23:43.42\00:23:45.52
don't tell them to go
home and pray about it.
00:23:45.55\00:23:46.89
Yeah.
00:23:46.92\00:23:48.26
Act on it, get the
resources necessary
00:23:48.29\00:23:49.86
because this could
go from something simple
00:23:49.89\00:23:52.49
to somebody dead very quickly.
00:23:52.53\00:23:54.63
Oh, sorry.
00:23:54.66\00:23:56.56
Well, I'm gonna
say... Well, I was gonna say,
00:23:56.60\00:23:57.93
do we think then that if
couples are being abused,
00:23:57.97\00:24:00.84
should they leave, you
know, should the person leave,
00:24:00.87\00:24:02.94
is that what we're saying?
00:24:02.97\00:24:04.31
Or are we saying
that they just seek help?
00:24:04.34\00:24:06.74
I mean, I don't want to
say let's just pray, pray,
00:24:06.78\00:24:08.91
hoping it goes away.
00:24:08.94\00:24:10.35
You know, but I'm also
thinking about those people
00:24:10.38\00:24:12.15
who may be mentally
abusive, emotionally abusive,
00:24:12.18\00:24:15.88
who don't know they are abusive,
00:24:15.92\00:24:17.25
or I know like myself,
00:24:17.29\00:24:19.82
you know, I've been
verbally abusive, you know.
00:24:19.85\00:24:21.96
And even, maybe early on
when Kim and I first dated,
00:24:21.99\00:24:24.69
I'm pretty sure I was.
00:24:24.73\00:24:26.39
Not realizing that I was being
like someone in my, you know,
00:24:26.43\00:24:29.66
in my family or
somebody that kind of raised me.
00:24:29.70\00:24:32.23
I was exhibiting
that same kind of behavior
00:24:32.27\00:24:34.47
and not knowing,
00:24:34.50\00:24:35.84
and that's something I
had to confront and to face,
00:24:35.87\00:24:38.01
you know, in
order to overcome it.
00:24:38.04\00:24:39.81
And so, I'm not saying
we can change people or,
00:24:39.84\00:24:41.81
you know, you should stay
to try to change somebody.
00:24:41.84\00:24:44.41
But, you know, the bottom
line is you got to do something,
00:24:44.45\00:24:47.65
either say something.
00:24:47.68\00:24:49.28
Let the person know
they are being abusive.
00:24:49.32\00:24:51.45
Let them know what
will happen if it continues.
00:24:51.49\00:24:53.92
Let them know that we
need to get up over this.
00:24:53.96\00:24:55.89
Yeah, I mean if you're
in the early stages of abuse
00:24:55.92\00:24:58.29
that needs to be
optimum but there needs to be,
00:24:58.33\00:25:00.80
you know, a communication
when we're praying and seeking.
00:25:00.83\00:25:03.70
So if my wife sees something
in me that I didn't know,
00:25:03.73\00:25:06.13
please tell me so I
can stop this, you know.
00:25:06.17\00:25:08.37
But if you're
getting badder though...
00:25:08.40\00:25:09.77
If it's later on, yeah,
I mean if it's further down
00:25:09.80\00:25:13.07
and there may be some situations
00:25:13.11\00:25:14.48
where you need to
actually separate yourself
00:25:14.51\00:25:16.11
from that individual.
00:25:16.14\00:25:17.48
You know, this
is life and death.
00:25:17.51\00:25:18.85
You know, you need to, you know,
00:25:18.88\00:25:20.28
separate yourself at that time.
00:25:20.32\00:25:21.65
You gonna ask
something, yeah. And what I was
00:25:21.68\00:25:23.02
actually going to say and
Kory kind of touched on it.
00:25:23.05\00:25:26.45
All does not have to
be lost in the situation,
00:25:26.49\00:25:32.03
especially as we're
saying if it's caught
00:25:32.06\00:25:33.80
in the early stages
and the person is brought
00:25:33.83\00:25:37.43
into confrontation
with their actions.
00:25:37.47\00:25:40.70
Who knows what
God is able to do with
00:25:40.74\00:25:43.10
that individual
through proper therapy
00:25:43.14\00:25:45.77
and proper
attention to the problem.
00:25:45.81\00:25:48.14
All does not have to be lost.
00:25:48.18\00:25:50.45
But, you know,
there are circumstances
00:25:50.48\00:25:54.25
as well where just like
you're saying that separation
00:25:54.28\00:25:57.85
might need to happen.
00:25:57.89\00:25:59.22
Okay, let me ask
this last question
00:25:59.25\00:26:00.59
as we're going to our close.
00:26:00.62\00:26:01.96
If you saw
somebody getting abused,
00:26:01.99\00:26:03.69
you know, today,
what would you do?
00:26:03.73\00:26:05.33
What would you suggest
that our viewers would do
00:26:05.36\00:26:07.76
if they see
somebody getting abused?
00:26:07.80\00:26:09.13
I know as a
working professional,
00:26:09.16\00:26:10.70
pastor and whatever
you want to call that,
00:26:10.73\00:26:12.27
we kind of have
the responsibility
00:26:12.30\00:26:13.64
of reporting certain things.
00:26:13.67\00:26:15.54
I was going to say earlier,
I'm glad we went near there,
00:26:15.57\00:26:17.31
abuse is
everybody's responsibility.
00:26:17.34\00:26:19.97
It's not just the
responsibility of those
00:26:20.01\00:26:21.41
in the
situation, but if you know
00:26:21.44\00:26:23.48
you have a family
member being abused,
00:26:23.51\00:26:25.08
you need to let them know that.
00:26:25.11\00:26:26.51
Because who knows,
maybe they don't know
00:26:26.55\00:26:28.48
what situation they are in,
00:26:28.52\00:26:29.85
and honestly you may be
00:26:29.88\00:26:31.39
you may be the difference
between life and death.
00:26:31.42\00:26:34.19
You know, and so
if you see something,
00:26:34.22\00:26:35.56
don't be afraid to
say something, you know.
00:26:35.59\00:26:37.89
Yeah.
00:26:37.93\00:26:39.26
Someone else
want to add to that?
00:26:39.29\00:26:40.63
I would add that we
need to remember that
00:26:40.66\00:26:42.23
not every person
that's being abused is strong.
00:26:42.26\00:26:45.67
There are strong women
who will not let it happen
00:26:45.70\00:26:48.27
or strong men who'd
probably be able to stop it
00:26:48.30\00:26:49.80
but there are some people
00:26:49.84\00:26:51.17
who actually are
afraid and scared.
00:26:51.21\00:26:53.91
So if you have a friend
that is afraid or scared,
00:26:53.94\00:26:57.15
then you need to
not just tell them
00:26:57.18\00:26:58.55
they are being abused
but provide a way out...
00:26:58.58\00:27:00.35
Right, right.
00:27:00.38\00:27:01.72
Encourage them,
motivate them, let them know
00:27:01.75\00:27:03.65
it's going to be okay
'cause they may think,
00:27:03.69\00:27:05.02
oh, it's not
going to get any better.
00:27:05.05\00:27:07.09
If I leave, the
worst may happen,
00:27:07.12\00:27:08.52
so we need to encourage
them to make the right decision
00:27:08.56\00:27:11.19
and provide that way
out whether it's shelter.
00:27:11.23\00:27:13.29
I love that, yeah, and you have
00:27:13.33\00:27:14.66
to be careful sometimes
too 'cause people can get
00:27:14.70\00:27:16.03
very defensive
when you come to them.
00:27:16.06\00:27:17.77
But you have to make
sure you let them know first,
00:27:17.80\00:27:19.30
I care about you.
00:27:19.33\00:27:20.87
This is something I have seen.
00:27:20.90\00:27:22.34
I'm just letting you
know this because as a friend
00:27:22.37\00:27:24.27
I want to warn you, okay.
00:27:24.31\00:27:26.57
So we're going to end it here.
00:27:26.61\00:27:28.38
There is a lot more
that you can be discussing
00:27:28.41\00:27:29.74
at home about this.
00:27:29.78\00:27:31.11
But please if
you are facing abuse,
00:27:31.15\00:27:33.88
please make sure you
do, take the necessary steps
00:27:33.92\00:27:37.32
and make sure you call
00:27:37.35\00:27:38.69
the National
Domestic Violence Hotline
00:27:38.72\00:27:40.32
which is available 24/7.
00:27:40.36\00:27:41.99
The number is 1-800-799-SAFE.
00:27:42.02\00:27:45.69
That's 1-800-799-7233
00:27:45.73\00:27:49.36
and it should be
up on the screen.
00:27:49.40\00:27:50.73
And make sure you
get the necessary help
00:27:50.77\00:27:52.53
because at the end of
the day whatever happens,
00:27:52.57\00:27:54.67
God loves you and He
wants you to be safe.
00:27:54.70\00:27:57.44
Remember to make
pure choices. God bless.
00:27:57.47\00:27:59.81