The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Hello, and
welcome to Pure Choices.
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I'm your host,
Pastor Joshua Nelson.
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I'm so glad you
decided to join us today.
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We're talking about
Co-habitation today.
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Yeah, interesting topic
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because a lot of
people wanna know,
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is it okay to
live with my boyfriend
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or girl friend
before I get married.
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And so we're
gonna discuss this today
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along with
number of other things.
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But of course, before we begin,
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let's pause for
a moment of prayer.
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Heavenly Father, we
thank You so much for this day
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and this moment
and we ask Father
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that Your Spirit
would be here to guide us
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through this discussion,
in Jesus' name we pray.
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Amen. Amen.
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Let's introduce our panel.
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To my left I have
Dr. Jeanne Mogusu,
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who is a recent
graduate of Andrews University,
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happy to have her here.
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We also have Brittany Hill,
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who is also a recent
graduate of Andrews University
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in Berrien Springs,
Michigan, happy she's here.
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Next to her, we
have Pastor KP Douglas,
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from Southeast Missouri,
he has two churches out there,
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glad he's here with us.
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Next to him, another
pastor, Pastor John Coaxum,
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who is the associate pastor
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of the Glenville
Seventh-day Adventist Church
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in Cleveland, Ohio.
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And of course, I'm Pastor Nelson
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from South Carolina
with two churches out there
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in South Atlantic Conference.
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So we're so glad
that we're all here
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to be able to
discuss these topics
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and this of course is a good one
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because a lot of
people wanna know.
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"Is it okay to live
with my significant other
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before I get married?"
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Let me start with a story.
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When I went to, well,
started back pastoring again
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in my new district, I
had my, now my wife, amen,
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who was then just my fiancA(C)e,
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and she was living about 45
minutes from me at the time.
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She would come to
church with me, you know,
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and they would see us, you know,
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together and what not.
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Now some of the young people,
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they were saying
a few things about
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when I was visiting
there in weekdays, they say,
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you know, "Why don't you bring
your wife with you and stuff?"
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I said, "Well, I know, I
don't see her on the weekends
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when I go to church."
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"So what do you mean?
You don't live together?"
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I was like,
"No, of course, not."
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You know, and they, you know,
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I'm a pastor and
they're thinking that
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I'm living with my fiancA(C)e,
you know, they had no idea that
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that's not even what Christian
should be doing, you know.
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And so
nowadays, from seeing that
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and realizing that I said, man,
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it's just a common
thing that people think
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that you just live
with who you're with,
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that's just what you do is.
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Even in the movies
and shows you watch,
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it's always, you know,
"Are you gonna get a key,"
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You know, "Are you going to,
you know, be living with me?"
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You know, that's usually
the next step, not marriage,
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it's usually next
step is co-habitation.
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So what kind of
biblical principles
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can we take away and teach about
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living with someone
before you get married?
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So let's just
start talking about that.
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I'll start with,
whom do I start with?
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I'll start with Brittany.
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Okay, Brittany,
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is there anything
wrong with co-habitation?
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What's, I mean, if there is any,
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what's wrong with it?
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There are a few things that
are wrong with co-habitation.
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And the first thing is
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when people are coming
together to live together,
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the question is, why?
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And based on statistics,
they have like four reasons
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why people
choose to live together.
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The first common is
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they're testing
the relationship.
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Seeing if it's okay, are
we gonna actually survive
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if we actually do get married,
so just try this thing out.
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Another thing, reason
why it's so convenient,
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you get to save money,
you're moving together,
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and you don't have
to pay all the expenses
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if you're living separately.
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Another reason is emancipation,
a lot of young people,
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they want their parents to know,
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"Hey, I can do this on
my own, I can survive."
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So it's like, "I'm free now."
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And the last one is like
lead up to relationships,
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they're just
basically a person is moving in
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with another person
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because they're dependents
and that's what they're doing.
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And sometimes these
different reasons mix together
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like a gentleman may move in,
he's doing it for convenience.
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The girl, she's doing
it because she's testing.
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And then what the
issue that rises up is,
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"So, when are we
getting married?"
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He's like, "Um,
soon, you know, baby."
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And that's a setup it
really is a huge setup.
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Wow, thank you for that.
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You know, that's
very important for us
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to understand
the different reasons
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and I appreciate that.
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That's very good.
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So, you know,
those are the reasons,
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why is it bad?
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Yeah, I think it's bad
because there is no commitment
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that's being made.
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I think that a
person who co-habitats
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or at least the norm seems
to be, they are testing it out,
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as Brittany said, they wanna see
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if this thing is going to work.
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But they are not
really ready to commit.
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I mean, if you're gonna go ahead
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and live with somebody
then I mean, in my estimation,
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in my Christian opinion,
you might as well marry them.
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I mean, and make a commitment
to be with that person.
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Yeah, okay. I
don't agree with it.
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I mean, the Bible is clear,
you know, when you get married
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or that is for
marriage leaving and cleaving.
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Leaving your mother
and your father's house,
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you know, if you wanna
go to your own house, fine,
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but going to
somebody else's house
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or joining
houses, if that happens,
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you know, the
Bible basically says,
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when you get married.
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I can speak from
personal experience
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not full on checking up.
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But it's, it puts you
in a sticky situation.
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You know, especially,
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if the
relationship does not work out.
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You know, when somebody is like,
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leaving and they,
you're used to having them
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in the house all the time,
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it's like losing
a loved one, man.
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It's like experiencing
death when they have to leave.
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You know, and also
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that practice of
practicing marriage,
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you know, you begin to do things
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that are marriage like.
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You know, that
may, that's when sex
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becomes more acceptable.
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You know, I mean, that means
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that you got
shower in the same house,
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you know, you're seeing
stuff that you probably,
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normally wouldn't see.
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Seeing them in the situation,
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you probably you
wouldn't see them in.
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And so it kind of sets it
up for during the situation,
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plus if you don't,
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if the
relationship doesn't work out,
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you've been pretty
much opened your whole world
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to this person,
your whole private world.
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And so I think
it's a horrible idea.
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Right. And, oh,
Jeanne, you want to say?
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Yeah, I was gonna
say, just piggybacking of
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what you're saying.
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When you shack up, shack up?
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When you
co-habitate, when you play house
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or whatever you
wanna call it with someone,
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you're opening up
literally a part of yourself
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that should be experienced
only with just one person.
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Can you imagine the kind of hurt
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you'd be opening up yourself
to if it does not work out?
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And especially, if
there's no commitment there,
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it's like, why
would you do that?
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And then you can
imagine doing that
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like two or three times.
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It's like two or three times,
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your heart is
literally going to be broken
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and I mean, why would you even
put yourself in the situation
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like that to begin with.
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Well, I mean, it's that,
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we're saying it
so that's the ideal,
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but it's really
not easy, you know,
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when they're in relationship...
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Let's talk about that.
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Yeah, when you're in
relationship with somebody,
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you wanna be with
them all the time.
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You know, I can
give you an experience,
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I was away at school, and
I was dating a young lady.
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And I had my own place
and she had her own place,
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but I did most of the cooking
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and so she would
come over for food.
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But she would end
up staying, you know,
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she was doing homework
or something like that.
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She would end up
wanting to stay over,
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you know, and it is just,
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when you become
comfortable in a relationship,
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it kind of feels like
the next natural thing
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to do even if you're
not ready for marriage.
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And so I mean, it's
not as easy, you know,
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as we make it seem, you know,
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it's actually easier to go
into that shacking up mould.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I mean, I could
speak to that too happening,
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you know, the same issue,
having the same experiences,
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I mean, it's just so much easier
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to allow that
person to stay over
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and you kind of feel like
you're sensitized to a point
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where you kind of
feel like, well, I mean,
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I'm getting to know
this person better, you know,
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the more I stay with him,
the more time I spend with him,
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I know now what to
expect in marriage.
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But the truth of the
matter is that really,
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once you get married,
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and once you make a
commitment to somebody,
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everything changes.
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Before marriage
and after marriage,
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everything is changed,
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even if you are
co-habitating before.
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And isn't that the
common thing that people say,
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"Well, this will
help hinder divorces
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because I wanna know
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if I can live with this person?"
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Yeah.
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"So that's really a
big thing when you married,
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I wanna live with somebody,
then I wanna test it out
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and see if I can
really, you know, take them."
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Yeah, but the
statistics doesn't support that.
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They state that
one-third of people
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that co-habitate
never make it to marriage.
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Relationships usually
last the most four years
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and in out of the
others one-third of them
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actually end up getting divorce
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and only one-third of
them actually survive.
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So you have like 33.3%
chance of actually surviving.
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Wow.
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And even when you do survive,
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they say your relationship
is not as satisfying
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as if you didn't do it before.
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So even the stats
speak for themselves
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right there, wow.
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I think that a lot of it
boils down to selfishness,
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you know, even when you
wanna live with somebody
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and you say,
"Well, I just wanna see
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if I can live with them,
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or if we can get
along, whatever."
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Then we have this misconception
about marriage where,
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you know, I'm doing
me and she's doing her,
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but we're doing
it at the same time
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in the same place.
00:09:17.12\00:09:18.45
When you get married, you know,
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this whole idea of
leaving and cleaving is that
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you're now starting
a brand new culture,
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it's a brand new home.
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So, yes, so it's
a whole new family.
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And so you know, and
marriage is so beautiful
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because this, even if you
don't agree on certain things,
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you have to come
to a consensus that,
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that forms that new
culture in your home.
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"How am I gonna do things?"
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But when you shack
up, you can easily say,
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"Well, you know what,
this is not working for me,
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I don't like the way
this is, I'm gonna leave, so."
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I think Satan wants
us, if I can say this, you know,
00:09:45.88\00:09:49.58
to co-habitate and to
partake in sex before marriage,
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so that we're having a
less enjoyable experience
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after marriage.
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In other words, you
know, I've heard a pastor say
00:09:58.23\00:09:59.56
that Satan wants
us to have as much sex
00:09:59.59\00:10:01.36
before marriage so we're
almost having none afterwards.
00:10:01.40\00:10:03.97
I mean, you know, after
you continue to have sex
00:10:04.00\00:10:05.87
over and over again,
there's no commitment.
00:10:05.90\00:10:07.80
Once you're finally
married and with that person,
00:10:07.84\00:10:09.80
it doesn't have the excitement
and then it's not as enjoyable
00:10:09.84\00:10:13.21
as it would be if you waited
for the time and you said,
00:10:13.24\00:10:15.74
"Listen, honey,
I'm committed to you,
00:10:15.78\00:10:17.35
with all my heart
and with all my soul."
00:10:17.38\00:10:19.35
There are even statistics
as Brittany said, you know,
00:10:19.38\00:10:21.35
to prove that sex is
more enjoyable amongst people
00:10:21.38\00:10:25.32
who are committed to each
other and they love each other
00:10:25.35\00:10:28.36
rather than people
who're just having it casually.
00:10:28.39\00:10:29.72
Yeah.
00:10:29.76\00:10:31.09
I feel like we said
this in another season
00:10:31.13\00:10:32.96
anything that
says worth waiting for
00:10:32.99\00:10:34.46
is worth waiting for.
00:10:34.50\00:10:35.83
Yeah.
00:10:35.86\00:10:37.20
Because you know, Jesus, we
have to wait for Him, right?
00:10:37.23\00:10:38.93
That's right.
00:10:38.97\00:10:40.30
We're waiting for Him to come
and that's the ultimate best
00:10:40.34\00:10:41.67
so, you know, you have to
be able to learn how to wait.
00:10:41.70\00:10:44.11
And like you
said, it gets sweeter
00:10:44.14\00:10:45.47
and gets better
as you begin to wait.
00:10:45.51\00:10:48.01
Jeanne, were you
gonna add something to that?
00:10:48.04\00:10:49.38
No, no. I'll hold. Okay.
00:10:49.41\00:10:52.41
Okay, I think you
know, and for me now
00:10:52.45\00:10:54.68
as a person who is
about to get married,
00:10:54.72\00:10:57.12
the unfortunate
reality for me, you know,
00:10:57.15\00:10:59.92
my fiancA(C)e
outside of college,
00:10:59.95\00:11:02.46
she's living at
her parents' house.
00:11:02.49\00:11:03.93
So when we get together
00:11:03.96\00:11:05.29
and we finally
have our own home,
00:11:05.33\00:11:06.66
it's gonna be her first home.
00:11:06.70\00:11:08.03
for me, even though
I've never been married
00:11:08.06\00:11:10.67
because I've had relationships
that have, you know,
00:11:10.70\00:11:12.93
weren't full on
shacking, but you know, people,
00:11:12.97\00:11:14.80
we spend time and people
might have spent the night.
00:11:14.84\00:11:16.54
To me it feels like,
00:11:16.57\00:11:17.91
if I've already
been married a few times,
00:11:17.94\00:11:19.27
you know what I'm saying,
00:11:19.31\00:11:20.64
and so my
expectations are also different.
00:11:20.68\00:11:22.64
You know what I'm saying,
00:11:22.68\00:11:24.01
and now it's
like this is my home
00:11:24.05\00:11:25.38
and I'm looking at it
00:11:25.41\00:11:26.75
in a completely
different way than she is so.
00:11:26.78\00:11:28.92
All right, now
let's talk about that.
00:11:28.95\00:11:30.29
I call that Adventist
checking or co-habitation
00:11:30.32\00:11:33.76
where it's not
really we actually got it,
00:11:33.79\00:11:35.36
I mean, they
don't live with you,
00:11:35.39\00:11:37.13
they got their own
apartment, their own place,
00:11:37.16\00:11:38.89
but maybe have a key,
00:11:38.93\00:11:40.33
or maybe they
stay often, you know.
00:11:40.36\00:11:42.63
So I mean, let's be honest,
I mean, I'm not assuming,
00:11:42.66\00:11:46.63
I wanna assume all of us
have been in that situation,
00:11:46.67\00:11:48.40
but I'm sure many of us
have been in the situation
00:11:48.44\00:11:50.01
where it's, kind of, like,
00:11:50.04\00:11:51.37
someone staying
over right our house
00:11:51.41\00:11:53.11
and it's like, "Don't
need to go home, like,
00:11:53.14\00:11:55.44
why don't you just
stay here, stay over."
00:11:55.48\00:11:57.58
And what do you
do in the situation,
00:11:57.61\00:11:59.28
especially,
let's say if someone,
00:11:59.31\00:12:02.68
you don't see someone very often
00:12:02.72\00:12:04.05
or you're living around
places that they come to visit,
00:12:04.09\00:12:05.75
are you really gonna
buy, like pay for her hotel
00:12:05.79\00:12:07.92
while you're staying
in your house, you know,
00:12:07.96\00:12:09.49
the practical things about it.
00:12:09.52\00:12:10.86
I mean, how,
00:12:10.89\00:12:12.23
what do you really
do in that situation?
00:12:12.26\00:12:14.93
I think it can be
very tricky like Korey said
00:12:14.96\00:12:18.33
because you're opening
up your space to someone
00:12:18.37\00:12:22.27
who has not
bought the house permit.
00:12:22.30\00:12:25.84
There's a reason
00:12:25.87\00:12:27.21
why when you go and buy a house.
00:12:27.24\00:12:28.64
They don't allow you
to stay in the house first
00:12:28.68\00:12:31.31
and then you can
pay later, you know.
00:12:31.35\00:12:34.85
The bank will ask
for the money upfront
00:12:34.88\00:12:37.65
and then, you know,
00:12:37.69\00:12:39.05
you have
committed to buy the house.
00:12:39.09\00:12:41.12
That's why you have to make sure
00:12:41.16\00:12:42.49
that the house is
exactly what you want,
00:12:42.52\00:12:44.23
you know 'cause
once our mortgage
00:12:44.26\00:12:46.70
and paperwork goes in,
that's it, it's a wrap.
00:12:46.73\00:12:50.30
But somehow we think,
we take more, I guess care,
00:12:50.33\00:12:54.94
buying things like
cars and houses than we do
00:12:54.97\00:12:58.24
with something as precious
00:12:58.27\00:12:59.81
and as sacred as
marriage, you know.
00:12:59.84\00:13:04.48
I mean, think
about how much thought
00:13:04.51\00:13:06.11
you put into paying
for getting a mortgage
00:13:06.15\00:13:09.18
like buying a house.
00:13:09.22\00:13:10.55
And then you're like, "Uh,
I mean, I kind of like him,
00:13:10.59\00:13:13.02
I kind of like Josh,
maybe we can, you know,
00:13:13.05\00:13:15.02
let's see how
this thing works out."
00:13:15.06\00:13:16.62
You were so callous
when it come to something
00:13:16.66\00:13:19.29
that's literally a
lifetime commitment.
00:13:19.33\00:13:22.36
You know, and you
probably won't even stay
00:13:22.40\00:13:24.17
in the same house for
three or four years, you know.
00:13:24.20\00:13:28.60
But, yeah.
00:13:28.64\00:13:30.61
Sometimes you
just gotta make the...
00:13:30.64\00:13:31.97
and this is just
00:13:32.01\00:13:33.34
sometimes you just
gotta make the hard decision
00:13:33.38\00:13:35.08
and just stop.
00:13:35.11\00:13:36.44
You know, I was
dating a young lady
00:13:36.48\00:13:37.81
and she lived on
campus at the time,
00:13:37.85\00:13:39.98
but she would stay
over every now and then.
00:13:40.02\00:13:42.02
And I'm gonna be real
00:13:42.05\00:13:43.39
that staying over let
to other stuff, you know,
00:13:43.42\00:13:45.69
that probably
would not have happened
00:13:45.72\00:13:47.06
had she had not be staying over.
00:13:47.09\00:13:48.72
And I maybe eventually
the guilt getting to us,
00:13:48.76\00:13:50.83
you know.
00:13:50.86\00:13:52.19
Just feeling bad because
we keep putting ourselves
00:13:52.23\00:13:53.93
in the situation
00:13:53.96\00:13:55.30
and so we both sat
down and talked about it.
00:13:55.33\00:13:57.33
And I was like, "Listen,
we're gonna have to stop,
00:13:57.37\00:13:59.23
like you cannot
stay here at all."
00:13:59.27\00:14:01.70
And
interestingly enough, you know,
00:14:01.74\00:14:03.57
shortly after
making that decision,
00:14:03.61\00:14:05.21
it's as if the relationship,
kind of began to fizzle away.
00:14:05.24\00:14:08.44
You know, where
now the relationship
00:14:08.48\00:14:10.18
wasn't dependent on that time
that we were spending together.
00:14:10.21\00:14:13.21
We started to see, you know,
00:14:13.25\00:14:15.02
the real issues
that were being masked
00:14:15.05\00:14:17.15
because we were spending
that kind of time together.
00:14:17.19\00:14:19.42
And we ended up
ending the relationship,
00:14:19.45\00:14:21.22
you know, so sometimes
you just got to kind of just,
00:14:21.26\00:14:23.69
you know, say, you
know, I'm just gonna,
00:14:23.73\00:14:25.36
let's do what's right, you know,
00:14:25.39\00:14:26.73
and see what happens,
00:14:26.76\00:14:28.10
and trust that God
will work you through that.
00:14:28.13\00:14:29.76
Yeah, because you get
caught up in the whole,
00:14:29.80\00:14:31.13
like, playing house thing
00:14:31.17\00:14:32.57
and then the real issues
don't ever surface or come out.
00:14:32.60\00:14:35.24
And your relation will be
based on that shack up moment.
00:14:35.27\00:14:38.84
It'll be based on that
cuddle, you know, on that,
00:14:38.87\00:14:41.91
you know, in the living room
with the lights off together,
00:14:41.94\00:14:43.71
it'll be based on that.
00:14:43.75\00:14:45.08
You'll think that, that's
what is really all about, yeah.
00:14:45.11\00:14:47.02
Yeah, I mean,
there's a quote that says,
00:14:47.05\00:14:49.15
"Familiarity breed contempt,"
and I think that you know,
00:14:49.18\00:14:52.59
the longer you are in this type
of co-habitation relationship
00:14:52.62\00:14:55.32
with somebody,
00:14:55.36\00:14:56.69
I think you
actually begin to, you know,
00:14:56.73\00:14:58.56
hate them to a certain extent,
00:14:58.59\00:15:00.03
and not want
them around as much,
00:15:00.06\00:15:01.40
and I've been in
a similar experience
00:15:01.43\00:15:02.93
as Korey is talking about.
00:15:02.96\00:15:04.93
And the issue is when you
have not committed to somebody,
00:15:04.97\00:15:08.30
when you have not
said, listen, you know,
00:15:08.34\00:15:10.24
when you're co-habitating,
00:15:10.27\00:15:11.61
you don't have to
sacrifice anything.
00:15:11.64\00:15:12.97
You don't necessarily
have to give anything
00:15:13.01\00:15:14.61
to make the relationship work.
00:15:14.64\00:15:16.24
And after a
while, you're just like,
00:15:16.28\00:15:17.61
"Why am I doing this?
00:15:17.65\00:15:19.51
What is this? Why is she here?"
00:15:19.55\00:15:20.88
Why is she here?
What's going on here?
00:15:20.92\00:15:22.92
I'm not committed to you.
00:15:22.95\00:15:24.29
I don't have to, and especially
when it comes to the point
00:15:24.32\00:15:26.05
where you are asked
to give up something,
00:15:26.09\00:15:27.72
now you're just like,
"I don't wanna give it up,
00:15:27.76\00:15:29.36
I mean, we're
just 'shacking up',
00:15:29.39\00:15:31.16
we're not in a
committed relationship."
00:15:31.19\00:15:32.66
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
00:15:32.69\00:15:34.30
And I think going
back to practicality
00:15:34.33\00:15:35.80
of what you should
do in the situation,
00:15:35.83\00:15:37.53
I mean, I do know as
weird as it may sound to people,
00:15:37.57\00:15:40.74
I do know people, you know,
00:15:40.77\00:15:42.10
when their
significant other comes in town,
00:15:42.14\00:15:43.87
they take out the extra
bucks and they buy hotels
00:15:43.91\00:15:46.51
so that person
can have, you know.
00:15:46.54\00:15:47.91
I have to do that.
00:15:47.94\00:15:49.28
Yeah, I mean, you
know, that's just,
00:15:49.31\00:15:50.65
kind of something you
have to consider doing
00:15:50.68\00:15:53.05
if you're trying
to keep yourself,
00:15:53.08\00:15:54.52
and safeguard
yourself from situations.
00:15:54.55\00:15:56.79
Because I mean,
as much as you say
00:15:56.82\00:15:58.15
I'm strong, you
know, I'm not gonna do it,
00:15:58.19\00:15:59.75
you go and sleep in your
room, I'm sleeping in my room.
00:15:59.79\00:16:01.59
Okay, you know, that
knock's gonna come on your door
00:16:01.62\00:16:04.29
and you're like, come on
in, so you gotta make sure
00:16:04.33\00:16:07.63
you're in a faraway places,
00:16:07.66\00:16:09.63
you know, if
you're in that situation.
00:16:09.66\00:16:11.37
So let's go a little further now
00:16:11.40\00:16:14.34
and ask the question of
how long should you spend
00:16:14.37\00:16:18.67
with someone, okay,
so if you are, I mean,
00:16:18.71\00:16:21.54
should you even enter
someone's house, you know,
00:16:21.58\00:16:23.55
let's say, you
know, I have an apartment,
00:16:23.58\00:16:25.21
and I'm gonna get my
girlfriend come over,
00:16:25.25\00:16:26.95
should I, you know,
00:16:26.98\00:16:28.32
let's say it's nearly 3
o'clock in the afternoon.
00:16:28.35\00:16:29.68
Shall I let her come in?
00:16:29.72\00:16:31.05
And she's staying
for two hours and leave
00:16:31.09\00:16:32.42
when no one's there
00:16:32.45\00:16:33.79
or should I never
let her inside the door
00:16:33.82\00:16:35.16
because it's just
the two of us, you know.
00:16:35.19\00:16:36.96
Well, if you haven't,
I would say don't start.
00:16:36.99\00:16:39.59
Because just like John
said, once you get in, you know,
00:16:39.63\00:16:41.76
sometimes you
get in to that habit
00:16:41.80\00:16:43.40
and you start to ease up
a little bit more, you know.
00:16:43.43\00:16:46.40
It's just four hours now.
00:16:46.43\00:16:47.77
It'll start with come over
and watch a movie, you know.
00:16:47.80\00:16:49.97
We kind of set it
up, because we know
00:16:50.01\00:16:51.41
what's gonna
happen if you come over
00:16:51.44\00:16:52.77
to watch movie at 8 o'clock,
the movie is gonna end at 10.
00:16:52.81\00:16:55.21
"I'm not trying
to drive home." Yeah.
00:16:55.24\00:16:57.81
And then you'll have
her to look at your house
00:16:57.85\00:16:59.41
because you don't want
her to drive home by herself.
00:16:59.45\00:17:01.45
And so don't even put
yourself in that situation.
00:17:01.48\00:17:04.15
You know, because once
you, with anything else.
00:17:04.19\00:17:06.76
Once you give it a
little bit of leeway,
00:17:06.79\00:17:08.89
it's gonna become
more, more comfortable,
00:17:08.92\00:17:10.26
you're gonna start taking more,
00:17:10.29\00:17:11.63
"I'm just gonna
take a little nap first,
00:17:11.66\00:17:12.99
I'll leave at 12 and
then next day leaving at 2,
00:17:13.03\00:17:15.20
next day leaving at 6,
and then next, you know,
00:17:15.23\00:17:16.97
she'll bring her work
clothes to take a shower...
00:17:17.00\00:17:19.13
Lots of sharing.
00:17:19.17\00:17:20.94
Yeah, so just
don't even start it
00:17:20.97\00:17:22.80
if you haven't started already.
00:17:22.84\00:17:24.17
Yeah, yeah.
00:17:24.21\00:17:25.54
And we get to know yourself too
00:17:25.57\00:17:26.91
and know your
own triggers as well.
00:17:26.94\00:17:28.38
I mean I personally
don't see anything that's,
00:17:28.41\00:17:30.28
you know, completely
wrong with a girl, or a guy
00:17:30.31\00:17:32.58
coming over to the
boyfriend or girlfriend's house
00:17:32.61\00:17:34.18
and watching a movie.
00:17:34.22\00:17:35.55
But I do think that
there are certain times
00:17:35.58\00:17:37.32
at the night
00:17:37.35\00:17:38.69
when you should
not be together alone.
00:17:38.72\00:17:40.69
I just don't see that.
00:17:40.72\00:17:42.06
If you're gonna be together
then be in a public place.
00:17:42.09\00:17:43.96
But I mean, all of
us are sexual beings,
00:17:43.99\00:17:46.09
I don't care who you
are, where you come from,
00:17:46.13\00:17:47.46
God made us all
sexual, we all have hormones,
00:17:47.50\00:17:49.93
we all have desires.
00:17:49.96\00:17:51.30
And late at night,
guys, there's something,
00:17:51.33\00:17:53.30
something about late night...
00:17:53.34\00:17:54.67
Yeah.
00:17:54.70\00:17:56.04
Yes, the clock ticks at 12...
00:17:56.07\00:17:58.27
Twilight zone,
everybody is sleeping,
00:17:58.31\00:18:00.08
you know what I
mean, who I'm right now,
00:18:00.11\00:18:02.18
you know, know
yourself and know your triggers.
00:18:02.21\00:18:04.45
But at the end of
the day, I think, yeah,
00:18:04.48\00:18:05.81
there are certain
times in the night where,
00:18:05.85\00:18:07.28
nobody should be together alone,
00:18:07.32\00:18:08.65
at least opposite sex.
00:18:08.68\00:18:10.02
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
I totally agree with John.
00:18:10.05\00:18:13.05
I think you
have to know yourself
00:18:13.09\00:18:14.46
and know what your triggers are.
00:18:14.49\00:18:16.52
I don't, I wouldn't say that
00:18:16.56\00:18:17.89
you can't spend
alone time at all
00:18:17.93\00:18:19.26
because how you're
gonna know each other more
00:18:19.29\00:18:20.83
if you don't have
any amount of alone time.
00:18:20.86\00:18:23.20
You have to know
which places you can go to,
00:18:23.23\00:18:25.30
are you gonna having
accountability partner
00:18:25.33\00:18:27.04
that says, "Okay, it's
11 o'clock, where are you?
00:18:27.07\00:18:30.07
It looks I didn't
see, what's going on?"
00:18:30.11\00:18:31.77
Or even 'cause, it can be
at 3 o'clock in the afternoon
00:18:31.81\00:18:34.84
and you're all alone and
something can still happen.
00:18:34.88\00:18:36.95
So it's not about
what time it's about.
00:18:36.98\00:18:39.31
Okay, do you have an
accountability partner
00:18:39.35\00:18:41.42
that say, okay, at
every 10 minutes call me
00:18:41.45\00:18:44.32
to make sure I'm
keeping myself accountable
00:18:44.35\00:18:46.19
because I don't feel like
I'm gonna be strong enough,
00:18:46.22\00:18:49.32
just in case, or even know,
00:18:49.36\00:18:50.99
okay, let's sit at the
opposite sides of the table.
00:18:51.03\00:18:53.56
You're at that part of
couch I'm on this side of couch.
00:18:53.60\00:18:55.70
But if you're
saying alone time is,
00:18:55.73\00:18:57.67
you're gonna be all snuggly,
and close together then...
00:18:57.70\00:18:59.80
We'll be.
00:18:59.83\00:19:03.97
Something, that I have no idea.
00:19:04.01\00:19:05.34
I think that raises
the issue of boundaries.
00:19:05.37\00:19:07.88
You have to know
and set good boundaries
00:19:07.91\00:19:11.31
and I think, going back to
what Korey was saying about,
00:19:11.35\00:19:16.55
what was he saying?
00:19:16.58\00:19:17.92
Talking about some...
00:19:17.95\00:19:19.29
Who knows?
00:19:19.32\00:19:20.66
Who knows what
was he talking about.
00:19:20.69\00:19:24.39
But boundaries are
really, really important.
00:19:24.43\00:19:27.40
It's a matter of me saying,
"Hey, I don't think that,
00:19:27.43\00:19:31.53
if I'm even coming over,
00:19:31.57\00:19:33.27
I don't think that we should
do anything on the couch."
00:19:33.30\00:19:35.60
You know, even just sitting down
00:19:35.64\00:19:37.07
or if we are talking,
00:19:37.11\00:19:38.44
maybe we should talk at a table.
00:19:38.47\00:19:39.94
And, you know...
00:19:39.97\00:19:41.54
Yeah, I mean, but it does
lend itself to communication.
00:19:41.58\00:19:46.92
Now I remember
what Korey was saying.
00:19:46.95\00:19:48.42
Yeah.
00:19:48.45\00:19:49.78
Yeah, so when
you are in a position
00:19:49.82\00:19:51.82
where someone is co-habiting
or staying over and all,
00:19:51.85\00:19:56.09
you'll find that your
physical relationship is used
00:19:56.12\00:20:00.96
as a mask to cover a
lot of inconsistencies
00:20:01.00\00:20:03.97
that are not in your
regular relationship.
00:20:04.00\00:20:07.17
Like instead of talking
something that you're upset,
00:20:07.20\00:20:09.50
"Oh, baby, you're upset.
Okay, come, give me a hug."
00:20:09.54\00:20:12.67
And that hug leads
into something else.
00:20:12.71\00:20:14.88
You have it addressed
00:20:14.91\00:20:16.34
why you're upset
in the first place,
00:20:16.38\00:20:18.41
but somehow you're
upset makes someone else,
00:20:18.45\00:20:22.05
"Oh, she's crying,
okay, let me wipe her tears,
00:20:22.08\00:20:24.95
let me be nice.
00:20:24.99\00:20:26.32
Okay, come lay down,
your head is hurting."
00:20:26.35\00:20:28.76
Next thing you know, you know,
00:20:28.79\00:20:30.46
your clothes are off and
something else is going on.
00:20:30.49\00:20:32.83
And yeah, mercy, really mercy...
00:20:32.86\00:20:34.80
Mercy Lord.
00:20:34.83\00:20:36.16
Yeah, and so it's boundaries,
00:20:36.20\00:20:38.00
it's about setting
very strict boundaries.
00:20:38.03\00:20:41.44
They are not
boundaries that can be shaken
00:20:41.47\00:20:43.47
but boundaries are very firm.
00:20:43.51\00:20:45.71
That kind of reminds
me, in any relationship,
00:20:45.74\00:20:48.21
communicate,
communicate, and communicate.
00:20:48.24\00:20:49.94
Communicate, yes.
00:20:49.98\00:20:51.31
Anyone who is in a relationship
and not yet married,
00:20:51.35\00:20:52.75
communication is the heart
of all relationship problems.
00:20:52.78\00:20:56.69
Communicate, when you
first get with somebody, talk,
00:20:56.72\00:20:59.42
"This is what I
expect, what do you expect?"
00:20:59.45\00:21:01.72
If you're in a situation
00:21:01.76\00:21:03.09
where you maybe shacking up now,
00:21:03.12\00:21:04.56
you may be feeling
guilty about it, talk,
00:21:04.59\00:21:07.20
"This is how I'm
starting to feel about it."
00:21:07.23\00:21:08.80
I think we should
address this issue.
00:21:08.83\00:21:10.17
But you gotta communicate,
communicate, communicate.
00:21:10.20\00:21:12.63
Yeah, and then we'll go to John,
00:21:12.67\00:21:14.07
but that's another
thing we wanna talk about
00:21:14.10\00:21:15.44
cause what if you feel
convicted you should stop,
00:21:15.47\00:21:18.27
the other person doesn't.
00:21:18.31\00:21:19.64
And they feel like you're
saying not to is gonna hinder,
00:21:19.67\00:21:22.24
you know, it's gonna make them
feel set up a way about, yeah.
00:21:22.28\00:21:25.75
Yeah, that's
what I was gonna say.
00:21:25.78\00:21:27.12
I think whether or
not a person accepts,
00:21:27.15\00:21:30.92
what you're saying
is a good measurement
00:21:30.95\00:21:32.49
of what you need to be
with that person or not.
00:21:32.52\00:21:34.86
If that person does not accept,
you know, your good morals,
00:21:34.89\00:21:37.33
your good ethics, and clearly
what's outlined in the Bible,
00:21:37.36\00:21:40.63
I don't wanna
co-habitate anymore, you know,
00:21:40.66\00:21:42.50
I don't wanna sleep
around anymore, I'm convicted,
00:21:42.53\00:21:44.67
and I want our
relationship to be fruitful.
00:21:44.70\00:21:46.67
You know, I don't
think you should come over.
00:21:46.70\00:21:48.04
If that person, you
know, gets all out of sorts,
00:21:48.07\00:21:49.90
and they are getting angry,
00:21:49.94\00:21:51.27
and they are trying to
convince you to, you know,
00:21:51.31\00:21:52.67
the other side, well, clearly,
00:21:52.71\00:21:54.21
I think that person may
not be the best fit for you.
00:21:54.24\00:21:57.25
And I'm convinced now
in my life that, you know,
00:21:57.28\00:22:00.62
there's a slogan I
carry around with me,
00:22:00.65\00:22:02.05
and I tell all my young
people back in my church.
00:22:02.08\00:22:04.19
You know, if a guy or a girl
00:22:04.22\00:22:06.09
does not give
their heart to God,
00:22:06.12\00:22:07.76
they cannot give it to you.
00:22:07.79\00:22:09.12
Yeah. They cannot.
00:22:09.16\00:22:10.49
They don't really
know what love is,
00:22:10.53\00:22:11.86
they don't know
what commitment is,
00:22:11.89\00:22:13.23
they don't know how to
really form a relationship.
00:22:13.26\00:22:14.60
Yeah, yeah.
00:22:14.63\00:22:15.96
Yeah, I think you have
to be honest with yourself.
00:22:16.00\00:22:17.90
You won't be able
to set any boundaries
00:22:17.93\00:22:19.40
if you don't
think there's a problem,
00:22:19.43\00:22:20.87
if there's an issue.
00:22:20.90\00:22:22.24
So if you're in this ooh
la-la-land where you think,
00:22:22.27\00:22:24.17
"Okay, I can go over
and I can do x, y, and z
00:22:24.21\00:22:26.68
and nothing's gonna happen."
00:22:26.71\00:22:28.14
Then you're not
being honest with yourself.
00:22:28.18\00:22:30.41
And I like what you're
saying about this dependency,
00:22:30.45\00:22:33.21
it's a dependency issue.
00:22:33.25\00:22:34.75
If the guy or
the girl is saying,
00:22:34.78\00:22:38.19
"Okay, I wanna end
this off," and you're like,
00:22:38.22\00:22:40.52
"Oh, no, I wanna
us to stay together."
00:22:40.56\00:22:42.99
And you're like,
"Okay, let's just do it then.
00:22:43.02\00:22:44.73
We'll just stay together."
00:22:44.76\00:22:46.09
Why do you feel like
00:22:46.13\00:22:47.46
you have to continue
to be with this person?
00:22:47.50\00:22:49.80
That sounds like you
need to go to some counseling.
00:22:49.83\00:22:52.37
So you have
mommy or daddy issue,
00:22:52.40\00:22:54.30
is there a
something, is there a reason
00:22:54.34\00:22:56.04
why you feel that you
can't live without this person,
00:22:56.07\00:22:58.41
that you can't stand
up for yourself and say,
00:22:58.44\00:23:00.51
"I'm gonna do
what's right for me,
00:23:00.54\00:23:02.18
I can't do this
anymore, you have to go."
00:23:02.21\00:23:05.15
If you can't
stand up for yourself,
00:23:05.18\00:23:07.05
what is preventing
you from doing that?
00:23:07.08\00:23:09.25
What is that deep rooted
issue that's stopping you?
00:23:09.28\00:23:12.62
Yeah, and I will say
sometimes at my counseling,
00:23:12.65\00:23:15.46
I do think we all
should go to good counseling.
00:23:15.49\00:23:17.56
I think everyone
needs me in counseling,
00:23:17.59\00:23:19.39
my wife is a
counselor, she must plug,
00:23:19.43\00:23:21.03
but anyway, but no,
that really is a valid point
00:23:21.06\00:23:25.47
you're making.
00:23:25.50\00:23:26.84
And what you said
John, a lot of times,
00:23:26.87\00:23:28.37
the people who are
the most angry about it,
00:23:28.40\00:23:29.97
to be honest, is us
guys, as men, you know,
00:23:30.01\00:23:32.07
we don't wheel like,
00:23:32.11\00:23:33.94
"What's happening here
is great, no commitments,
00:23:33.98\00:23:36.14
this is awesome,
there's cooking and cleaning,
00:23:36.18\00:23:38.01
this is awesome,
don't mess this up now."
00:23:38.05\00:23:39.45
You know, some
guys maybe mad that
00:23:39.48\00:23:41.45
as their significant
other's watching this,
00:23:41.48\00:23:45.39
you know, but the
reality is you have to stand up
00:23:45.42\00:23:48.22
for what is right
and protect yourself
00:23:48.26\00:23:50.09
in the relationship you
hope to have in the future
00:23:50.13\00:23:51.69
with this individual.
00:23:51.73\00:23:53.06
Yeah.
00:23:53.09\00:23:54.43
But I mean, going back to
that, you know, they're upset
00:23:54.46\00:23:56.80
because they're just
thinking about themselves.
00:23:56.83\00:24:00.87
It goes back to
your selfishness,
00:24:00.90\00:24:03.84
"I want what is making me
00:24:03.87\00:24:05.47
feel good and convenient for me,
00:24:05.51\00:24:07.78
it doesn't matter what
the other person wants."
00:24:07.81\00:24:10.21
And if you're in a relationship
with someone like that,
00:24:10.25\00:24:12.11
then I wouldn't even
say maybe I'd say that is
00:24:12.15\00:24:15.58
not the person for
you, like unequivocally no,
00:24:15.62\00:24:18.92
that is not the kind of person
that you want in your life.
00:24:18.95\00:24:21.42
You need someone in your
life, every one of us deserves.
00:24:21.46\00:24:24.66
We don't just need,
00:24:24.69\00:24:26.03
we do deserve good
people in our lives,
00:24:26.06\00:24:28.43
who raise us up, you know,
00:24:28.46\00:24:30.07
who help us be the
best that we can be.
00:24:30.10\00:24:32.77
Now that's interesting.
00:24:32.80\00:24:34.14
Yeah, who have our
best interests at heart,
00:24:34.17\00:24:35.90
that is someone who loves you,
someone who can put their wants
00:24:35.94\00:24:39.14
and their preferences aside
and make sure that you have,
00:24:39.17\00:24:42.61
you know, you can
get whatever you want.
00:24:42.64\00:24:44.65
A sacrificial kind of love
is what Christ is calling us to.
00:24:44.68\00:24:47.85
Yeah.
00:24:47.88\00:24:49.22
And if not they
better call all tire up.
00:24:49.25\00:24:51.85
Right, you have to say that.
00:24:57.29\00:25:00.93
All right, well, that's good.
00:25:00.96\00:25:02.33
We could talk
some more about this
00:25:02.36\00:25:03.70
but it makes
sure and clears, no,
00:25:03.73\00:25:05.07
no sleeping in the same bed.
00:25:05.10\00:25:06.43
No, no. Not a good idea.
00:25:06.47\00:25:08.77
Not a good idea? Not
even a good idea, no.
00:25:08.80\00:25:11.21
Not even with
friends of the opposite sex.
00:25:11.24\00:25:13.17
Yes. Yeah.
00:25:13.21\00:25:14.54
I know people do that too.
00:25:14.58\00:25:15.91
Okay, so now that there
are no coming late at night,
00:25:15.94\00:25:18.61
no late texts, okay, all right.
00:25:18.65\00:25:20.98
No friends with benefits.
No friends with benefits.
00:25:21.02\00:25:22.88
No, no.
00:25:22.92\00:25:24.25
I mean, you know, in this
stuff we've gone through it
00:25:24.29\00:25:25.92
but we know that, hey,
at least to a bad place,
00:25:25.95\00:25:28.19
so, a warning.
00:25:28.22\00:25:29.56
All right, well, let's go
on to rapid fire question,
00:25:29.59\00:25:31.56
are you guys ready?
00:25:31.59\00:25:32.93
I'll ask some questions.
Answer them real quick.
00:25:32.96\00:25:35.86
All right, should the
church talk more about sex?
00:25:35.90\00:25:38.93
How? Korey?
00:25:38.97\00:25:41.30
Yes, and as open and
honestly as possible.
00:25:41.34\00:25:44.97
Okay.
00:25:45.01\00:25:46.34
Not just old people
talking at about young people
00:25:46.37\00:25:49.44
but everybody in the
conversation together.
00:25:49.48\00:25:52.41
Okay, John, same question.
00:25:52.45\00:25:54.48
Yes, I do think
that, I think older folks
00:25:54.52\00:25:56.62
ought to talk more though.
00:25:56.65\00:25:58.05
I think one of the
problems in our church is
00:25:58.09\00:25:59.72
that older folks do
not, are not willing to share
00:25:59.75\00:26:02.09
some of the experiences
that they went through.
00:26:02.12\00:26:03.69
And because of that
young people don't know
00:26:03.73\00:26:05.63
the road that
they're heading down.
00:26:05.66\00:26:07.00
I think older
people can prepare them for
00:26:07.03\00:26:08.73
what they are about to get into.
00:26:08.76\00:26:10.10
Okay, tough question, Brittany,
00:26:10.13\00:26:11.47
do you think that men struggle
more with sex than women do?
00:26:11.50\00:26:13.74
No, I don't think
so. Okay, and why?
00:26:13.77\00:26:18.44
I can ask you only
one question right?
00:26:18.47\00:26:19.87
Jeanne, what do you think?
00:26:19.91\00:26:21.24
I think that
we're just as culpable
00:26:21.28\00:26:23.14
and just as
vulnerable as men are.
00:26:23.18\00:26:25.05
Because like John
said, we are sexual beings,
00:26:25.08\00:26:29.25
I don't care how
high, or mighty, or how low,
00:26:29.28\00:26:31.72
or whatever you are,
we are all sexual beings,
00:26:31.75\00:26:34.72
we all have those
things wired to flare up.
00:26:34.76\00:26:38.89
You'll have to
take a cold shower.
00:26:38.93\00:26:40.26
Yes.
00:26:40.30\00:26:41.63
Okay, here's
the tough one, okay,
00:26:41.66\00:26:43.00
if you're
practicing homosexual are
00:26:43.03\00:26:44.70
you gonna be able
to enter into heaven?
00:26:44.73\00:26:47.50
Wow. Well, I will
not say yes or no.
00:26:47.54\00:26:51.07
If you are practicing
it's such a hard thing, man,
00:26:51.11\00:26:54.08
because just as John quotes
or what the Bible really says,
00:26:54.11\00:26:57.95
you know, God is a
process God is taking us to
00:26:57.98\00:27:01.18
and we as who, you
know, we can't really say
00:27:01.22\00:27:03.22
that a person has not reached
where he's supposed to be.
00:27:03.25\00:27:05.82
You know, there's some issues
that we're gonna die with.
00:27:05.85\00:27:08.69
You know, that God
may have to maybe use
00:27:08.72\00:27:10.73
and even to shape us.
00:27:10.76\00:27:12.09
So I can't say yes or no,
00:27:12.13\00:27:14.26
I would maybe think
not but I don't think.
00:27:14.30\00:27:16.60
Okay, real quick,
John, what do you think?
00:27:16.63\00:27:18.07
Yeah, I don't think
we could say yay or nay,
00:27:18.10\00:27:19.73
but I can say this,
00:27:19.77\00:27:21.10
"I know when we get to heaven
there will be people there
00:27:21.14\00:27:22.64
that we didn't
think were gonna be there,
00:27:22.67\00:27:24.17
there gonna be people there,
00:27:24.21\00:27:25.54
there are not
gonna be people there
00:27:25.57\00:27:26.91
that we thought would be there."
00:27:26.94\00:27:28.44
Mercy. That's a good one.
00:27:28.48\00:27:30.11
I like what you said there.
00:27:30.15\00:27:31.48
All right, well, we'll
end with our Bible text here
00:27:31.51\00:27:33.95
in Genesis 2:24, famous text,
00:27:33.98\00:27:38.15
"This explains why man
leaves his father and mother
00:27:38.19\00:27:40.72
and is joined to
his wife in such a way
00:27:40.76\00:27:42.89
that the two become one person."
00:27:42.92\00:27:45.13
Let me tell you, being married,
that's a beautiful thing
00:27:45.16\00:27:47.43
if we follow the word of God.
00:27:47.46\00:27:48.86
So thank you all for
the discussion today,
00:27:48.90\00:27:50.83
it was great.
00:27:50.87\00:27:52.20
And remember those at
home, no matter what you do
00:27:52.23\00:27:54.10
always remember
to make pure choices.
00:27:54.14\00:27:56.47
God bless.
00:27:56.50\00:27:57.84