The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Hello, and
welcome to "Pure Choices."
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I'm your host,
Pastor Joshua Nelson.
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I'm so glad you
tuned in to this program.
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If you're going
to miss a program,
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this will not be the one.
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We're talking about dating.
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I'm sure we're all
interested in relationships
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and how you should
date, who you should date,
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when you should date.
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And we're gonna
discuss that today.
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But before we start,
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let's pause for
a moment of prayer.
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Heavenly Father, we thank
You so much for relationships,
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we ask Father that
You would bless us now
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as we discuss
dating and relationships.
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Lead us and guide us.
In Jesus' name we pray.
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Amen. Amen.
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All right.
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To my left, I have
Pastor K.P. Douglas
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who is the
pastor of two churches
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in Southeast Missouri.
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Good to be here.
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So glad he is
here with us today.
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On the couch here,
we have Kimberly Pearson
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who is the associate
chaplain at Oakwood University.
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So glad she is here as well.
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Next to her, we
have Dr. Jeanne Mogusu
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from Andrews University
there in Berrien Springs.
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So glad she is here with us.
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And next we have
Pastor John Coaxum
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who is the associate pastor
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at the Glenville
Seventh-day Adventist Church
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in Cleveland, Ohio.
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So glad that we
have you here today.
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We have some high energy today.
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We are ready to go and
talk about this subject.
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Before we get into our
discussion about dating,
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we're gonna go to
the screen and see.
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Now before we go to the screen,
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I ask these students
on a non Christian campus,
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college campus
about relationships.
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I ask them actually
when should you have sex
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before or while you're in
a dating relationship, okay.
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And I know that of
course, we as Christians
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we believe that
it should take place
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after marriage, amen.
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Amen. Okay.
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So but we want to kind of
see what their thoughts are
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and kind of the
prevailing mindset
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of many young people today.
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So let's watch this tape here.
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I would say at least two years,
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maybe I guess the word
love is kind of controversial
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but once you know that
you are in love with someone,
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I think then you could probably
become intimate with him.
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All right.
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So their opinion is basically,
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you know, a couple of years.
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Two.
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Yeah, two years, when
you are in love somebody,
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and that's when you
know, so love is often kind of
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led in dating
relationship to say, okay,
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now we're ready to
make the next step.
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And so we want to
talk a little more
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after we see this next one about
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what are some
stages you should look for
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in your
relationship with someone.
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Is it just that,
okay, when I love somebody,
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now we should start having sex
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or what's the sequence
of events up to marriage?
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Let's go to this next one.
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Me personally, I
don't feel there's no time.
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It's just all depends on
how you feel about the person
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or how comfortable
you are with that person.
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Okay.
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Yeah, I feel like it's between
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you and that person you go with.
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Yeah, I feel like it's the
time, you know, whom we're with.
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I don't feel like
there's a definite time limit.
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Okay.
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Interesting.
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So there's no time
limit. So what do you think?
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What are your, some
reactions to those responses?
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I'll start with John, go ahead.
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Yeah, it's interesting,
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the first girl
in the first video,
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you know, she said that
you should know somebody
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before you have sex with them
and it's kind of interesting
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because the Bible uses
that word no to describe sex in
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and of itself or intimacy.
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So it's
interesting, you know, it's like
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we have to know
somebody before we have sex.
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But God, at least
from a biblical standpoint,
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He's saying, listen, when
you actually know somebody
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is when you are
intimate and it's clear
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that God wants
us to know somebody
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within the context of marriage.
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I think the videos
really highlight the fact
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that there's so,
there's such a wide perspective.
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Somebody says, hey, I like you,
I want to get to "know" you.
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So I want to know you tomorrow.
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Whereas somebody else,
the young lady said two years.
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And so this is wide range
and I think what the Bible does
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and having a biblical and
spiritual moral compass does,
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is it puts our
time limit as God's.
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And God clearly laid
the foundation of saying
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that okay, in marriage is
when you should be intimate,
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when you should be having sex.
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But I do believe that there
are I think levels of intimacy
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that can happen
within relationships
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or getting to know
somebody shouldn't mean sex, so.
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All right.
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Well, the young lady said,
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there she said
love is controversial.
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The definition I guess
of love is controversial.
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I would say that I don't
know if I would use the love
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as a parameter for
when I want to have sex
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'cause if you do
you're definitely
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gonna have sex
outside of marriage.
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You know, when we
grow up, and I don't know
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if you've all had
this experience with,
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as you date, you'll
always think you're in love.
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You always think
you love somebody.
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And what I found is
that my definition of love
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changes with every
relationship that I'm in,
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you know, it even
deepens if you will.
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And I think that's
why we wait till marriage.
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You marry that person
who you definitely love.
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You know, Josh, you are married,
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so you know,
loving that person means,
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you want to be with them
no matter what all the time.
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You know, it's not
just about feeling intimate.
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It's about
wanting to be intimate
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even when I'm
absolutely mad at you
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and don't even
want to look at you,
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I still love you
and I think that's why,
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you know, it has to be
in the context of marriage
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and not just based
on a definition of love.
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It's kind of
arbitrary. Yeah, yeah.
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It's not just the
filling of the moment
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but it's really
a choice, you know.
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Very true.
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Okay, so let's talk
about dating in general
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because a lot, I mean,
everybody wants to date, right,
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everybody as
soon as you're young,
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you're excited
about who am I gonna date,
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whom I'm gonna
be with, you know,
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you eventually get to that
stage where you're looking,
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you know, and
really a lot of times
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you get to that stage
wanting to date somebody
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or be in a relationship.
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But you're not
able to get married,
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not wanted to get married.
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So I mean, my issue and
I'll just start with my issue
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with dating as always been that,
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a date, the word dating it's--
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a date is a time, a time
in space and it moves on.
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Dates change, you know.
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So especially
we're gonna make a choice
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as in sex or
doing that with somebody
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who you're "dating"
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it's gonna, your
date is gonna change.
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So a permanent decision
like that to lose your virginity
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with someone who
you're just with for at moment
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is not really a good
choice to make, you know.
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And so let's talk about that.
What are definitions of dating.
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And I think Korey will
say, he doesn't even believe
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that you should date,
almost can kiss dating goodbye
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so let's just talk
about this in general.
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Just for a little
while, then we'll go
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with some other principles.
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All right.
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Yeah, I'm not
sure there's you know,
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one definition of what dating is
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you know, I'm clearly
not clear as to what it is.
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I think that we as
Christians, especially,
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we should be more concerned
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with courting than
dating and what I mean that
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is you should, and I think
maybe we can use those words
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interchangeably,
dating and courting,
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depending on how you define it
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but I don't think we
should date or court anybody
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that we don't see some
type of potential for marriage.
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Like if the
qualities of this person,
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you know, if
they only look good,
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well, that's not really enough,
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I mean, what
about the personality,
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do they have
relationship with God, you know.
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Do we have similar commonalities
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or are we compatible in anyway
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I think, you know,
we should think about
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other things,
especially about marriage
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before we get into a
relationship with somebody.
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Or else I think it's
fruitless and it's futile.
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That's a good point, man.
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I think it's interesting
that when we were watching
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the videos it's,
the it was a wide,
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you know, frame
that people define
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when to have sex and
I love what Korey said
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that you know, as you
date, the more you date,
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you'll gain a
different perspective
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of what love is
and I will suggest
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that dating is
sometimes misconstrued
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and has become so negative
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because you kind of don't know
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because of what
the media has told you,
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because of what
books will tell you,
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because of what
society has defined it,
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we sometimes, we don't
even have a clear definition
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of what it is.
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We just know it
involves somebody else.
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And you know, and
just it's you know,
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you can't date yourself.
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We just know it
involves somebody else
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and even then
you have two people
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who clearly do
not have a definition
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for themselves that may not,
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you know, may have
definitions of dating
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that are very
contrary to one another.
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And then you
are expected to have
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some wonderful
mystical relationship
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that is just
absolutely out of this world.
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Yeah, yeah. You know.
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That's true. Yeah.
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I think that dating is
something you do on Facebook.
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I mean, if we just
look at the commonalities
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and I'm being very
facetious in saying that
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but dating is
something a lot of times
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we do to change relationships
that as is on Facebook.
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It's something we do
to have media presence.
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I want to be on Instagram
with the picture of my beau
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or whatever that maybe
and so dating has taken a turn
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for a publicity stunt
almost in a lot of people's life
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and we're dealing
with people who often times
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they don't
really know themselves
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or are lonely or
wanting companionship,
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so they just grab
the nearest person
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they can find and
say, "Let's start dating.
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You're lonely. I'm lonely.
Let's be un-lonely together."
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So I think dating
really needs to be,
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the person needs to understand
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who they are as
an individual first
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before getting into the mindset
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of I want to
partner with somebody else
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on a long term basis.
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And I like that because,
well, when I was dating,
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unless it was on
Facebook, it was not true.
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It wasn't true.
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And that really became
what was all about right.
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Johnny, you want to say
something, then Korey...
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Yeah, you know,
dating is interesting.
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I think it gives
people another option
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instead of marrying.
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You know, people
today just want to date,
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date, date, date, date.
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Nobody wants, most people
don't want to be married today
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especially from what media
is telling us and then also,
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you know, we refer to marriage
as the old ball and chain.
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You know, when
somebody says they're married,
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oh, boy, here we go,
you know, all these kind of
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derogatory
statements about marriage.
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And so I think the
question becomes too,
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in a dating relationship,
how far do I take commitment,
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you know, am I able to flirt
and talk to with other girls,
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am I able to, you
know, go out on a "date"
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with somebody else, you know,
how far do we take commitment.
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But it's clear in
the context of marriage
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that when I marry somebody,
I am with that person for life.
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And I think a lot of people are
not willing to take that step
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and that's why they
would rather choose dating
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over marriage.
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"All is vanity and
vexation of the spirit."
00:10:55.58\00:10:59.19
Korey.
00:10:59.22\00:11:00.56
You know, I think
the problem with dating
00:11:00.59\00:11:02.46
and I'm listening to
what everyone is saying
00:11:02.49\00:11:03.96
is I, I, I, I, what I
want and what, it's too much.
00:11:03.99\00:11:07.73
Dating is about what I want,
it's about what I want to do,
00:11:07.76\00:11:11.33
you know, what I can get
00:11:11.37\00:11:12.70
and I think
that's the major issue,
00:11:12.73\00:11:14.24
you know, as a
person who is engaged
00:11:14.27\00:11:16.40
and about to get married.
00:11:16.44\00:11:17.77
My thoughts and I have
nothing to do what I want.
00:11:17.81\00:11:20.04
It's about what I
want to do for my fiance.
00:11:20.08\00:11:22.81
Now I'm gonna
sound very archaic, okay.
00:11:22.84\00:11:24.81
I think that most of
the problems we have today,
00:11:24.85\00:11:27.18
divorce and all
these relation issues
00:11:27.22\00:11:29.55
come from these dating mentality
00:11:29.58\00:11:31.65
of getting what I want.
00:11:31.69\00:11:33.02
You know, back in the
day, you were given your wife
00:11:33.05\00:11:36.06
and you know, you were young
00:11:36.09\00:11:37.79
and you guys have to struggle
together to make a life.
00:11:37.83\00:11:40.73
There was no,
I'm gonna make sure
00:11:40.76\00:11:42.40
that I have a job,
well paying job first,
00:11:42.43\00:11:44.93
then I'm gonna make
sure that everything is set
00:11:44.97\00:11:47.24
you know, if you
want to look at it,
00:11:47.27\00:11:48.60
that's the reason
why people get divorced.'
00:11:48.64\00:11:50.04
Cause I've lived so
long without anyone,
00:11:50.07\00:11:52.61
you know what I'm saying,
that by the time I get married,
00:11:52.64\00:11:54.24
I can just do
whatever I want to do.
00:11:54.28\00:11:55.68
But you know, there has to be
that just like what John said,
00:11:55.71\00:11:58.75
when you're ready to
really commit to say, listen,
00:11:58.78\00:12:01.32
we're gonna merge
our lives together
00:12:01.35\00:12:03.52
and head towards just that being
00:12:03.55\00:12:05.85
together for the whole time,
00:12:05.89\00:12:07.22
so that your
success is my success,
00:12:07.26\00:12:09.16
your failures are my failures
00:12:09.19\00:12:10.69
and that's the mentality
that will go into marriage
00:12:10.73\00:12:13.83
and even make
for a successful one.
00:12:13.86\00:12:15.33
You know, that's
interesting because I remember
00:12:15.36\00:12:16.97
specifically a
story when I was dating,
00:12:17.00\00:12:19.47
one of my first relationships
that I had in college.
00:12:19.50\00:12:22.97
And I was thinking, you
know, I want to break up and,
00:12:23.00\00:12:25.77
you know, date somebody else,
whatever so I ended up saying,
00:12:25.81\00:12:28.21
you know, how, what happened,
ended up breaking with her.
00:12:28.24\00:12:30.58
And you know, I
remember she was upset
00:12:30.61\00:12:32.91
because she said,
00:12:32.95\00:12:34.38
"you're not considering
my feelings," you know.
00:12:34.42\00:12:36.62
I said, well, you
know, it's really about me,
00:12:36.65\00:12:38.55
like I, you
know, I just want to do
00:12:38.59\00:12:41.29
something different, you know.
00:12:41.32\00:12:42.66
You know, and whatever
I said to explain myself.
00:12:42.69\00:12:44.03
But it was really about me.
00:12:44.06\00:12:45.39
What you said is
interesting and I think
00:12:45.43\00:12:46.76
that in that stage of
college, even high school,
00:12:46.80\00:12:48.90
it is really about you
00:12:48.93\00:12:50.40
because you're wanting to
get something for yourself.
00:12:50.43\00:12:52.97
You're not even
thinking about marriage.
00:12:53.00\00:12:54.34
So we're gonna
follow what you said Korey,
00:12:54.37\00:12:55.87
really you're gonna
have to observe that person
00:12:55.90\00:12:58.44
a different way, get
to know in a different way
00:12:58.47\00:13:00.08
before you really want to say,
00:13:00.11\00:13:01.44
okay, this one I want to be with
00:13:01.48\00:13:02.81
and then when that happens,
00:13:02.84\00:13:04.18
you have to now be
all about them, you know.
00:13:04.21\00:13:06.08
And that's a big commitment
to, it's a big step to make,
00:13:06.11\00:13:08.68
yeah, it changes,
it totally changes it.
00:13:08.72\00:13:10.45
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:10.49\00:13:11.82
I think it removes you
from yourself, your selfishness
00:13:11.85\00:13:14.76
to being selfless because
the whole idea is if you are,
00:13:14.79\00:13:19.16
I want to say sold out to
God, you want to make sure
00:13:19.19\00:13:24.33
that you will not do
anything that would hurt Him
00:13:24.37\00:13:26.74
or anything that He cares about.
00:13:26.77\00:13:28.74
I mean, that's the essence
of being in relationship.
00:13:28.77\00:13:30.74
You want to be in relationship--
00:13:30.77\00:13:32.11
you want to be in
relationship with God
00:13:32.14\00:13:34.21
and because of that,
you want to make sure
00:13:34.24\00:13:36.38
that you always make Him happy.
00:13:36.41\00:13:37.78
And making God happy
is making all the things
00:13:37.81\00:13:40.82
that He cares about happy.
00:13:40.85\00:13:42.18
So I know that
I'm making God happy
00:13:42.22\00:13:45.09
by taking care of myself.
00:13:45.12\00:13:46.62
But I also know, part
of the whole dating issue
00:13:46.65\00:13:50.36
is that I need to make
sure that I' making God happy
00:13:50.39\00:13:53.60
by making His child happy.
00:13:53.63\00:13:55.53
So whoever I'm in
relationship with,
00:13:55.56\00:13:57.57
also needs to be
happy so that means,
00:13:57.60\00:13:59.33
taking a backseat
00:13:59.37\00:14:01.24
and putting the other
person ahead of myself
00:14:01.27\00:14:05.01
and their needs and their wants,
00:14:05.04\00:14:06.94
you see what I'm saying.
00:14:06.98\00:14:08.31
So the problems I think that
00:14:08.34\00:14:09.88
and why we're even
having to discuss dating
00:14:09.91\00:14:12.15
is because we're
not willing to do that.
00:14:12.18\00:14:14.78
We just want to think
of me and myself and I
00:14:14.82\00:14:17.15
and how me, myself and I
can please, you know, us.
00:14:17.19\00:14:21.92
And, you know,
honestly I think people,
00:14:21.96\00:14:24.69
I think really it's
about companionship.
00:14:24.73\00:14:26.90
And people are using
dating to get companionship.
00:14:26.93\00:14:29.76
Be friends. I know, I was.
00:14:29.80\00:14:31.40
Just get to know
people as whoever they are.
00:14:31.43\00:14:34.60
Hang out, do things
together, get to know them,
00:14:34.64\00:14:37.07
get that companionship without
the complications of intimacy
00:14:37.11\00:14:43.28
that aren't meant to be
experienced in that way.
00:14:43.31\00:14:47.38
Because even when, you
know, you're talking about
00:14:47.42\00:14:48.85
having sex in a
dating relationship,
00:14:48.88\00:14:50.82
even that concept is
about, I'm attracted to you,
00:14:50.85\00:14:53.59
so I want something from you.
00:14:53.62\00:14:56.12
I want to do something with you.
00:14:56.16\00:14:57.86
It's all this
selfishness wrapped up in that.
00:14:57.89\00:15:00.90
So, I honestly say that
00:15:00.93\00:15:02.43
if you're not
ready to be selfless,
00:15:02.46\00:15:03.97
you're not ready to date.
00:15:04.00\00:15:05.33
Yeah...
00:15:05.37\00:15:06.70
And that's the hard
word, I mean, it's really hard
00:15:06.74\00:15:08.34
for people to really be
that mature, take that stand.
00:15:08.37\00:15:11.04
And I really think that
the, your friends and what not,
00:15:11.07\00:15:14.01
you know, who you hang out
with just makes it very hard
00:15:14.04\00:15:16.38
to not want to get,
you know, what you say,
00:15:16.41\00:15:19.21
one on one with one person,
00:15:19.25\00:15:20.58
you know, single
with what one person
00:15:20.62\00:15:22.55
as opposed to what we saw,
00:15:22.58\00:15:23.92
you know, ideas
of maybe group dating
00:15:23.95\00:15:25.29
or something like that.
00:15:25.32\00:15:26.65
But I mean, come on,
you're really, you know,
00:15:26.69\00:15:28.42
you, everyone who is
young wants that one person
00:15:28.46\00:15:31.19
because you said
it's about companionship.
00:15:31.23\00:15:32.63
So I mean, how, I mean,
00:15:32.66\00:15:35.36
yes, you said a few things about
00:15:35.40\00:15:36.73
how would someone really
fight against that, you know.
00:15:36.77\00:15:39.17
I'm young and I really,
all my other friends are dating
00:15:39.20\00:15:42.47
and relationships,
should I just turn down somebody
00:15:42.50\00:15:45.04
when they ask
me to be with them?
00:15:45.07\00:15:46.41
I mean, what do you say?
00:15:46.44\00:15:48.14
I think you used a
good word when you said,
00:15:48.18\00:15:49.54
how will they
fight against that.
00:15:49.58\00:15:51.15
You know, life is not easy,
00:15:51.18\00:15:53.11
you know,
relationships are not easy,
00:15:53.15\00:15:54.82
none of the stuff
comes easy, you know.
00:15:54.85\00:15:56.48
And I think that
when we try so hard
00:15:56.52\00:15:58.45
to be in a relationship,
we do ourselves a disservice.
00:15:58.49\00:16:00.86
When Kim was talking, I'm
thinking back immediately,
00:16:00.89\00:16:04.16
thinking about my last,
maybe four relationships
00:16:04.19\00:16:06.09
and I'm saying to
myself, I didn't really pursue
00:16:06.13\00:16:08.93
any of these young ladies.
00:16:08.96\00:16:10.30
Like they were just my friends
and it just so happened that,
00:16:10.33\00:16:13.13
you know, we just started dating
00:16:13.17\00:16:14.50
and honestly I can tell you,
00:16:14.54\00:16:15.87
I don't even know
when we started dating
00:16:15.90\00:16:17.24
in some of the relationships.
00:16:17.27\00:16:18.61
We just were, you know,
00:16:18.64\00:16:19.97
because we were just that close
00:16:20.01\00:16:21.34
and we enjoyed
each other's company,
00:16:21.38\00:16:22.71
you know, I cared
about them so much,
00:16:22.74\00:16:24.08
I was already doing
everything for them, you know.
00:16:24.11\00:16:26.48
And so we just kind of naturally
00:16:26.51\00:16:28.32
went into that relationship
and so it's got to be,
00:16:28.35\00:16:31.32
like we say, you got
to take the attention off
00:16:31.35\00:16:34.72
from yourself for a little bit
00:16:34.76\00:16:36.09
and just enjoy
people's conversation,
00:16:36.12\00:16:38.03
enjoy people's presence.
00:16:38.06\00:16:39.39
You'll never
know, you may be friends
00:16:39.43\00:16:40.76
with somebody right now
00:16:40.80\00:16:42.13
that may turn out to
be your wife later on
00:16:42.16\00:16:43.50
if you would just enjoy them
and enjoy the companionship.
00:16:43.53\00:16:47.04
So do we have to be
careful about the things we do?
00:16:47.07\00:16:49.44
I mean, you're saying,
00:16:49.47\00:16:50.81
I think I'm gonna take
that out of proportion and say,
00:16:50.84\00:16:52.27
okay, I'm just
all about that person,
00:16:52.31\00:16:54.24
you know, and I
know, and a lot young
00:16:54.28\00:16:56.64
I want to say young
ladies but young ladies
00:16:56.68\00:16:58.01
will do a lot for
the men, you know,
00:16:58.05\00:16:59.95
they do so much, you know,
and maybe too much, you know,
00:16:59.98\00:17:02.28
and maybe the man
doesn't do the same thing.
00:17:02.32\00:17:04.19
So let's talk about now,
if you are in relationship,
00:17:04.22\00:17:06.39
and we're hoping
you're thinking about,
00:17:06.42\00:17:08.12
you know, possibly
marriage, you know,
00:17:08.16\00:17:09.72
you are in this relationship,
you're dating this individual,
00:17:09.76\00:17:12.36
let me talk to the women first.
00:17:12.39\00:17:14.43
What are some dos and don'ts?
00:17:14.46\00:17:16.26
What are some things
that you could advise them
00:17:16.30\00:17:18.27
from maybe your
experiences and say,
00:17:18.30\00:17:19.97
hey, there's some things
you just probably shouldn't do
00:17:20.00\00:17:21.60
because they're gonna
lead to some bad things
00:17:21.64\00:17:22.97
in the future?
00:17:23.00\00:17:24.34
Who wants to
start, Jeanne or Kim?
00:17:24.37\00:17:26.88
I would caution against
00:17:26.91\00:17:30.98
sharing too much of yourself.
00:17:31.01\00:17:34.08
And it doesn't even
have to be physical,
00:17:34.12\00:17:36.99
sometimes even emotional.
00:17:37.02\00:17:38.62
As women we get attached
really fast to, you know,
00:17:38.65\00:17:44.29
because we are,
'cause we are, I don't know.
00:17:44.33\00:17:49.90
I think it's a female thing.
00:17:49.93\00:17:51.40
We just, you
just want to, I guess,
00:17:51.43\00:17:55.34
attach yourself to
someone emotionally.
00:17:55.37\00:17:57.37
We are nurturers.
00:17:57.41\00:17:58.74
We are nurturers,
there, that's it, you know.
00:17:58.77\00:18:01.04
And so if they are
saying the right things
00:18:01.08\00:18:04.21
and where they're
doing the right things,
00:18:04.25\00:18:06.18
it's almost natural
that you would want to
00:18:06.21\00:18:10.25
be emotionally
attached to that person.
00:18:10.29\00:18:12.72
However, but I would even
go as far as to say sometimes,
00:18:12.75\00:18:17.33
that emotional
attachment comes so fast
00:18:17.36\00:18:20.10
because somewhere within
us we are starved for it.
00:18:20.13\00:18:23.90
I mean, in the
society that we live in,
00:18:23.93\00:18:26.03
we do not have those role models
00:18:26.07\00:18:29.20
or male figures in our lives.
00:18:29.24\00:18:31.31
Our fathers may have been absent
00:18:31.34\00:18:33.41
or our brothers
don't treat us like that.
00:18:33.44\00:18:35.41
So the first guy who comes,
00:18:35.44\00:18:36.81
who is like
opening doors for you
00:18:36.85\00:18:39.01
and being a gentleman
asking, putting you before,
00:18:39.05\00:18:42.42
you know, making sure
that your needs are met,
00:18:42.45\00:18:45.12
you know, taking care
of you in every sense,
00:18:45.15\00:18:48.26
it's like, oh, snap.
00:18:48.29\00:18:49.62
Oh, I got to hold on.
00:18:49.66\00:18:50.99
I got to hold on to this
00:18:51.03\00:18:52.36
because society has
conditioned us to say,
00:18:52.39\00:18:54.80
if you find a good
man, it doesn't matter,
00:18:54.83\00:18:57.03
you know, as long
as he treats you right,
00:18:57.07\00:18:58.60
doesn't matter what,
00:18:58.63\00:18:59.97
you want to
attach yourself to that.
00:19:00.00\00:19:01.50
And so I would caution against
those emotional attachments
00:19:01.54\00:19:04.01
'cause they are
the root of all evil.
00:19:04.04\00:19:07.44
Have mercy. All right, Kim.
00:19:07.48\00:19:09.31
Well, I wouldn't say
that emotional attachments
00:19:09.34\00:19:12.11
are the root of all evil.
00:19:12.15\00:19:13.65
I was joking.
00:19:13.68\00:19:15.02
I know, I'm
just kidding with you
00:19:15.05\00:19:16.38
but I do think that
you have to set boundaries.
00:19:16.42\00:19:18.85
As women, we have
to set boundaries.
00:19:18.89\00:19:22.02
We have to say, this is
the gate, go no farther.
00:19:22.06\00:19:25.46
Mercy. And we have to act...
00:19:25.49\00:19:26.83
And be serious about
that. And be serious.
00:19:26.86\00:19:28.20
We have to ask God to
be the sentinel of our gate
00:19:28.23\00:19:31.00
because we as women, like
you said, we are nurturers.
00:19:31.03\00:19:33.34
We want to do
things for you guys,
00:19:33.37\00:19:34.77
we want to care for you guys...
00:19:34.80\00:19:36.57
Oh, thank you, man.
00:19:36.60\00:19:40.24
And I think that comes naturally
00:19:40.28\00:19:41.81
but at the same
time we have to ask God
00:19:41.84\00:19:43.21
to help you to
set those boundaries.
00:19:43.24\00:19:45.51
We have to be
honest with ourselves.
00:19:45.55\00:19:47.52
If I know I like attention.
00:19:47.55\00:19:49.48
I know that I need
to be careful about
00:19:49.52\00:19:51.65
who I let give me attention,
00:19:51.69\00:19:54.59
and just really
have to know myself.
00:19:54.62\00:19:57.03
The first thing I would
say, do get to know yourself.
00:19:57.06\00:19:59.49
Do things you enjoy so that
when somebody else comes along,
00:19:59.53\00:20:03.10
you're not being
pulled every which way
00:20:03.13\00:20:05.33
the wind blows because
you have your feet settled.
00:20:05.37\00:20:08.84
Know what you
bring to the table,
00:20:08.87\00:20:10.37
whether that's your education,
your family background,
00:20:10.41\00:20:12.67
know the baggage
you bring to the table
00:20:12.71\00:20:15.11
that you have father
issues or whatever it maybe
00:20:15.14\00:20:17.91
and them know what
you're bringing to the table
00:20:17.95\00:20:19.81
and be honest with
yourself about where you are.
00:20:19.85\00:20:21.75
If you know you
struggle with sex,
00:20:21.78\00:20:23.12
don't be at his house at
2 o'clock in the morning.
00:20:23.15\00:20:25.52
so you know, avoid those...
00:20:25.55\00:20:27.22
10 o'clock in the night.
Or 10 o'clock in the night.
00:20:27.26\00:20:29.42
Yes.
00:20:29.46\00:20:30.89
So I would just say start
by being honest with yourself
00:20:30.93\00:20:33.46
where you fall, what
your temptations are,
00:20:33.50\00:20:35.26
what, you know, and then really
set up boundaries around that.
00:20:35.30\00:20:39.13
I know we're gonna hear
testimony from Kim later.
00:20:39.17\00:20:41.57
But I want to
now go with the guys.
00:20:41.60\00:20:43.34
And you all can
make sure from I,
00:20:43.37\00:20:45.24
okay, we're
brave enough to say I
00:20:45.27\00:20:46.88
and what are some things
you would give advise to,
00:20:46.91\00:20:49.04
you know, also say
some things about for men
00:20:49.08\00:20:51.51
and dos and don'ts of dating.
00:20:51.55\00:20:53.31
Well, I use a text
from Song of Solomon.
00:20:53.35\00:20:58.02
I believe the woman there says,
00:20:58.05\00:20:59.72
"Do not awaken
love before its time."
00:20:59.75\00:21:01.72
And I think what
is true for women
00:21:01.76\00:21:03.26
can also be true for men.
00:21:03.29\00:21:04.79
And I think that men
have tremendous power
00:21:04.83\00:21:07.03
over women and
I think just by...
00:21:07.06\00:21:09.76
Power. Let us say, power.
00:21:09.80\00:21:12.33
I think with
our words, you know,
00:21:12.37\00:21:14.80
we can lure a
woman down the path
00:21:14.84\00:21:16.54
or influence her
to a certain direction
00:21:16.57\00:21:18.71
that she may not be
wanting to go at that time.
00:21:18.74\00:21:21.18
But I think certain
things, you know, like saying,
00:21:21.21\00:21:23.48
"I love you" when
you don't really mean it.
00:21:23.51\00:21:25.95
I think you know,
acting as if you are husband
00:21:25.98\00:21:29.38
and she is all yours
when really she is not,
00:21:29.42\00:21:31.92
at least not in the eyes of God.
00:21:31.95\00:21:33.46
Until you make
that covenant with her
00:21:33.49\00:21:34.89
and you stand before people
00:21:34.92\00:21:36.39
who can hold you
accountable and say,
00:21:36.42\00:21:37.76
"I do" she is not yours at all.
00:21:37.79\00:21:40.10
And so I think influencing
a woman or leading her on,
00:21:40.13\00:21:44.00
which I can say,
personally, you know,
00:21:44.03\00:21:45.87
intentionally I think I've done
00:21:45.90\00:21:47.87
and in my ignorance
I have done as well.
00:21:47.90\00:21:49.87
Just saying things
that I was not ready
00:21:49.90\00:21:52.61
to actually commit
to and I think you know,
00:21:52.64\00:21:55.61
awakening love before its time,
00:21:55.64\00:21:56.98
it's a horrible
thing and you also,
00:21:57.01\00:21:58.55
you could break a girl's heart
00:21:58.58\00:21:59.91
and you can ruin her life
00:21:59.95\00:22:01.92
and ruin all her
future relationships.
00:22:01.95\00:22:03.32
Yeah. You really can. Yeah.
00:22:03.35\00:22:05.49
What I was gonna say
is along the same lines.
00:22:05.52\00:22:07.52
I will throw
another Bible verse.
00:22:07.56\00:22:08.92
You know, we always talk
about being unequally yoked.
00:22:08.96\00:22:12.86
Now we usually use
that in the context
00:22:12.89\00:22:14.53
of our religion or denomination.
00:22:14.56\00:22:16.63
But you could be unequally yoked
00:22:16.67\00:22:18.03
in a dating
experience, even in the,
00:22:18.07\00:22:20.70
you know, inside
the same religion.
00:22:20.74\00:22:22.24
And I say that
to say, intentions.
00:22:22.27\00:22:24.54
What are your
intentions in a relationship?
00:22:24.57\00:22:26.01
What's gotten me in
trouble is I was just chilling
00:22:26.04\00:22:29.18
and she was looking for husband.
00:22:29.21\00:22:31.08
You know, we
were unequally yoked.
00:22:31.11\00:22:33.31
Because we were both
expecting different things
00:22:33.35\00:22:35.45
from the relationship
and just like John said,
00:22:35.48\00:22:37.62
I'll be doing
things that were feeding
00:22:37.65\00:22:39.25
what she was expecting,
00:22:39.29\00:22:40.66
not knowing
that her expectations
00:22:40.69\00:22:42.36
were completely
different than mine, you know.
00:22:42.39\00:22:44.53
So one of the things in
dating is, you know, talk,
00:22:44.56\00:22:47.30
you know, it's what
you're gonna have to do
00:22:47.33\00:22:48.66
if you get married
for the rest of your life.
00:22:48.70\00:22:50.03
So you might as well start now,
00:22:50.07\00:22:51.40
really discuss what do we want,
00:22:51.43\00:22:52.90
you know, what are
you trying to get from me.
00:22:52.93\00:22:54.40
Yeah, where is thing going?
00:22:54.44\00:22:55.97
And you met, some people
just tell you straight of,
00:22:56.00\00:22:58.04
I just want to
have sex with you,
00:22:58.07\00:22:59.41
you know, and then you are,
00:22:59.44\00:23:00.78
you should know
off top, you know.
00:23:00.81\00:23:02.14
Well, yeah, we are
unequally yoked, you know.
00:23:02.18\00:23:03.51
So I might have
to, you know, move on.
00:23:03.55\00:23:05.81
And so but just to
get that stuff on open,
00:23:05.85\00:23:07.88
be practical, communicate,
00:23:07.92\00:23:09.28
you know, don't just
take things for today.
00:23:09.32\00:23:11.72
You know, people
have backgrounds,
00:23:11.75\00:23:13.09
they have ideas about dating
00:23:13.12\00:23:15.22
that may be completely
different than you was in.
00:23:15.26\00:23:17.33
You guys have
been in a relationship
00:23:17.36\00:23:18.99
having completely
different expectations so...
00:23:19.03\00:23:21.86
Yeah, it's
good, it's good, yeah.
00:23:21.90\00:23:23.37
And I mean, I was gonna
say same type of things.
00:23:23.40\00:23:25.10
Just being honest,
you know, being honest.
00:23:25.13\00:23:26.74
Don't be afraid to be honest
because it can affect things
00:23:26.77\00:23:29.64
definitely in the future.
00:23:29.67\00:23:31.01
Now we only have a
couple of minutes left,
00:23:31.04\00:23:32.37
but we do want to talk about
00:23:32.41\00:23:33.74
dating someone who is not,
00:23:33.78\00:23:35.11
you were talking
about unequally yoked,
00:23:35.14\00:23:36.48
dating someone who is
not in your same religion
00:23:36.51\00:23:39.18
I guess, or you
know, non Christian
00:23:39.21\00:23:41.72
or the Christian or even
outside your denomination.
00:23:41.75\00:23:43.69
So what do we do with that?
00:23:43.72\00:23:45.39
Is that good or bad and why?
00:23:45.42\00:23:46.99
Mercy. Real quick.
00:23:47.02\00:23:49.02
I'm gonna be honest, you
know, and I hate being so cliche
00:23:49.06\00:23:53.46
but that's just the
thing I tell my friends
00:23:53.50\00:23:55.03
when they ask me, you know,
00:23:55.06\00:23:56.70
I pray about stuff
and then I move, you know.
00:23:56.73\00:23:59.30
I don't say God and then
wait 20 minutes, 20 years.
00:23:59.33\00:24:02.00
I move, you know.
00:24:02.04\00:24:03.37
If I pray and say
"God, what about this girl?"
00:24:03.41\00:24:05.07
And then I feel
compelled to be with her,
00:24:05.11\00:24:06.68
then I'm gonna be with her
regardless of where she's from,
00:24:06.71\00:24:09.34
her background,
that's how I feel
00:24:09.38\00:24:11.11
and I have the faith
that says that I'm moving
00:24:11.15\00:24:13.62
because God said to
move and if I'm not,
00:24:13.65\00:24:15.52
God will correct
me along the way.
00:24:15.55\00:24:17.52
I have, you got to have
that kind of faith and say
00:24:17.55\00:24:18.89
God will also stop this.
00:24:18.92\00:24:20.66
So I don't know we can just
make it a do you or don't you,
00:24:20.69\00:24:24.23
you know, because
we have seen things
00:24:24.26\00:24:26.09
come out of, on, you know,
00:24:26.13\00:24:27.83
what we
consider unequally yoked.
00:24:27.86\00:24:29.26
You got to consider the
fact that in Jesus' line
00:24:29.30\00:24:31.70
there's a woman who
is not an Israelite,
00:24:31.73\00:24:33.47
you know, and so how
do you reconcile that,
00:24:33.50\00:24:36.10
because God said to move.
00:24:36.14\00:24:37.71
You know what I'm
saying and so there has to be
00:24:37.74\00:24:39.71
that aspect of letting God
00:24:39.74\00:24:41.28
lead you in your decision making
00:24:41.31\00:24:42.74
and having the faith
that He will correct you.
00:24:42.78\00:24:44.31
Yeah, okay. Yeah, I
would agree with Korey.
00:24:44.35\00:24:46.31
I'd say, you know,
it's not a necessarily issue
00:24:46.35\00:24:48.28
of right or wrong
again, but I would say
00:24:48.32\00:24:50.22
it's an issue of
being wise or unwise.
00:24:50.25\00:24:52.29
I do think that, you
know, it's possible that you,
00:24:52.32\00:24:54.96
anything is possible with God.
00:24:54.99\00:24:56.46
You can date somebody
who is not of your faith,
00:24:56.49\00:24:57.96
who doesn't
believe what you believe
00:24:57.99\00:24:59.33
and you may be
able to convert them
00:24:59.36\00:25:00.90
and convict them to
the way of your thinking.
00:25:00.93\00:25:02.66
But it's dangerous
because when you love somebody
00:25:02.70\00:25:06.00
or when you care for somebody,
you're gonna sacrifice,
00:25:06.03\00:25:09.50
you know, certain
beliefs or certain principles
00:25:09.54\00:25:11.47
that you have, You're
not gonna be as firmly rooted
00:25:11.51\00:25:13.88
as you were before because
you want to please that person.
00:25:13.91\00:25:17.21
So sometimes it
is a dangerous thing,
00:25:17.25\00:25:19.65
you know, again, I
can't say it's right or wrong
00:25:19.68\00:25:21.58
but I would say be
careful, be cautious
00:25:21.62\00:25:23.69
and as Korey said, definitely
pray about it before I move.
00:25:23.72\00:25:25.85
And that's why when
you're dating someone,
00:25:25.89\00:25:27.39
you must not let
your relationship
00:25:27.42\00:25:29.89
with Jesus falter out because
if you are in love with Jesus
00:25:29.92\00:25:33.43
first, you know,
then, is someone,
00:25:33.46\00:25:35.46
if you're just dating a
person who married Jesus,
00:25:35.50\00:25:37.07
then your marriage is
Jesus trumps that date,
00:25:37.10\00:25:38.70
date and relationship.
00:25:38.73\00:25:40.07
Wow.
00:25:40.10\00:25:42.07
Well, I have a personal
experience I like to share.
00:25:42.10\00:25:44.67
Okay, go ahead.
00:25:44.71\00:25:46.04
I met someone
who was not Adventist
00:25:46.07\00:25:49.08
and they were
charismatic, they were a leader.
00:25:49.11\00:25:51.88
They had all the
qualities that I you know,
00:25:51.91\00:25:54.02
make the little
checklist that we tell women
00:25:54.05\00:25:55.88
to do whatever
you want in a guy.
00:25:55.92\00:25:57.55
He seemed like he
was all of these things.
00:25:57.59\00:25:59.35
So we started dating,
we even both like soy milk.
00:25:59.39\00:26:03.16
That was really awesome. Nice.
00:26:03.19\00:26:05.19
You know, but he
wasn't Adventist.
00:26:05.23\00:26:08.26
And so he
started coming to church
00:26:08.30\00:26:09.63
and doing Bible
studies and all these things.
00:26:09.66\00:26:11.43
I'm thinking that
we're really, really great.
00:26:11.47\00:26:13.13
But I was always
crying. I was always crying.
00:26:13.17\00:26:16.77
And every time we were talking,
00:26:16.81\00:26:18.51
just when we were in the
conversation with prayer,
00:26:18.54\00:26:21.14
but I was crying.
00:26:21.18\00:26:22.84
And it started to
bring up some red flags.
00:26:22.88\00:26:25.31
When my friends met
him, they were just like,
00:26:25.35\00:26:27.42
"Kim, we don't know
if he's really the one."
00:26:27.45\00:26:30.32
He would belittle me in public.
00:26:30.35\00:26:33.39
He would often
times get upset with me
00:26:33.42\00:26:36.06
and use abusive or abrasive
language in text messages.
00:26:36.09\00:26:42.06
They would be times
00:26:42.10\00:26:43.80
where when they
would be a disagreement,
00:26:43.83\00:26:45.67
and in relationships
you have disagreements,
00:26:45.70\00:26:47.54
you know, conflict happens
00:26:47.57\00:26:49.04
but in the
conflict it would be very,
00:26:49.07\00:26:51.87
just the anger
level would be very high,
00:26:51.91\00:26:54.11
would slam things and
hit things and throw things.
00:26:54.14\00:26:57.51
He'd use scripture
in threatening ways.
00:26:57.55\00:27:01.32
Mercy.
00:27:01.35\00:27:02.68
But we were
having worship together,
00:27:02.72\00:27:06.12
we're praying together and so,
they were all these red flags.
00:27:06.15\00:27:08.69
So he proposed to me and
even the proposal was off,
00:27:08.72\00:27:12.36
like everything was off.
00:27:12.39\00:27:13.86
But in my mind I was
seeing all these red flags
00:27:13.90\00:27:15.83
but I was trying to
make the red flags pink,
00:27:15.86\00:27:17.73
where not quite red
because I wanted to get married.
00:27:17.77\00:27:21.97
And then, finally, after
prayer, a lot of fasting,
00:27:22.00\00:27:25.91
God revealed to me that, a
specific scripture that says,
00:27:25.94\00:27:31.41
"It's better to
live in a house of peace
00:27:31.45\00:27:33.42
with a dry crust of
bread than live in a house
00:27:33.45\00:27:35.95
with feasting and
quarrelling and fighting."
00:27:35.98\00:27:38.42
And that was huge sign for me.
00:27:38.45\00:27:39.99
So I called off the engagement
and went my separate way
00:27:40.02\00:27:42.56
and I have peace.
00:27:42.59\00:27:43.93
Amen.
00:27:43.96\00:27:45.29
Well, that was powerful,
Kim. Thank you for that.
00:27:45.33\00:27:46.66
Let's close with the text.
00:27:46.70\00:27:48.03
2 Timothy 4:22,
00:27:48.06\00:27:49.56
"Run from
anything that gives you
00:27:49.60\00:27:51.13
the evil thoughts
that young men often have.
00:27:51.17\00:27:53.17
But stay close to anything
00:27:53.20\00:27:54.54
that makes you
want to do right."
00:27:54.57\00:27:56.24
Amen.
00:27:56.27\00:27:57.61
Remember to
always make pure choices.
00:27:57.64\00:27:59.71
God bless.
00:27:59.74\00:28:01.08