The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are cautioned that
some material may be too candid
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for younger children.
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Hello, and
welcome to "Pure Choices."
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I'm your host,
Pastor Joshua Nelson.
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And I'm so glad and
excited you decided to join us.
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We are having a
good discussion today.
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The title is Bi-Curious.
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And we're talking
about the bisexual craze
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that we seemed to be more
prevalent in our society today.
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What do you do or how
should you react to someone
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who is not only dating
the same, the opposite sex,
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but also
interested in the same sex.
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And so, we're gonna discuss this
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because this has
become a prevalent thing
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not only in our society
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but also on, even
on Christian campuses.
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So we're gonna
just kind of expose in
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and talk about
these things today.
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Before we do get
into the discussion,
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I want to pray and I also
want to introduce the panel.
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Heavenly Father, we
ask that Your Spirit
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would be with us now as we
discuss this sensitive topic
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and that you just
abide with us, Father.
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We need you right now.
In Jesus' name we pray.
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Amen. Amen.
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All right. Let's
introduce the panel.
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To my left I have
Pastor K.P. Douglas
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from Southeast Missouri.
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He has two churches out there.
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So glad that he is
here with us today.
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On the couch, to my right
I have Pastor John Coaxum,
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who is the pastor,
or associate pastor
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at Glenville
Seventh-day Adventist Church
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in Cleveland, Ohio.
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Next to him we
have Brittany Hill,
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who is the graduate
from the theological seminary
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at Andrews University.
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Glad she's here with us.
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And also we
have Kimberly Pearson
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who is the associate
chaplain at Oakwood University
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and we're happy
she's here with us today.
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So we have a great panel.
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Interesting topic.
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We're gonna get right into
this but before we discuss it,
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I want us to go to the screen
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because we're gonna
watch some interviews I did
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with some students
from a college campus.
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Now I must say this
was not a Christian campus
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and the views that they
share will not reflect, well,
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we probably will come it
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or what this
network subscribes to.
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But I do want to
show these videos
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because it will help us kind
of see the prevailing mindset
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of those who really live
amongst us and talk amongst us,
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kind of how people think
and how we should discuss it.
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You know, a lot of times we can
get so caught up in our bubble
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and how we think
and we kind of forget
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what others are
thinking or talking about.
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So we're gonna
watch three videos.
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We'll watch the first one now
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to see what we
can learn from it.
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Let's go.
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It's not right, it's not right.
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It's just not
right. That's how I see it.
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But if you want, if you
're happy with the person
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that is the same
sex as you, go for it
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because it's not harming me any.
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I know what I want
and so I will stick to my,
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to my preference
and you stick to your's.
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I think people mainly in
itself have a problem with it
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because biblically it's wrong.
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Man and woman were made.
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You can't create another being
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by solely being with another man
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or solely being
with another female.
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And I think
that's where it's wrong
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and then you screw up evolution
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because we don't
have new creations,
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we have less creation.
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And then that's why I think
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a lot of people
have a problem with it.
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So you see, there is
different views out there
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of really the
idea of homosexuality,
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lesbianism, you
know, and you know,
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at first it seemed it be
that okay, they are against it
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but and also saying well,
we are accepting because if,
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hey, if you want to do it,
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that's your
preference, if you want to do.
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And so now it
doesn't seem to be an actual,
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hey, this is
wrong type of statement.
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More of a, you know,
if you want to do it,
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you can do it type of thing.
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Let's watch another one.
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There are, there is a
growing number of people
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who are coming out
about how they feel
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about same sex relations
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and in history there's
always been that discussion
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but in the modern
time it seems like
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there is a lot of
different views on that.
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And I think it's,
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at least affiliate will
listen to people's perspectives
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and some people often
try to be morally superior
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and not reaching out and trying
to understand someone else
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who has a
problem that you don't.
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If you consider it a problem,
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it's a lack of
people understanding,
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you know, lack of
people willing to listen.
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And I feel like it's,
it's a very blind hatred
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because these people
who are openly against it
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in a hateful way are the people
who aren't willing to reach out
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and listen and just try to
get a new perspective on that.
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I think there are some
good points made there,
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you know, and the idea
that we do need to listen
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and be sensitive to others
who are going through struggles
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because we all go
through struggles.
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I think that's what the Bible
does bring out that, you know,
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your sin is not
greater than anyone else's sin,
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but I think there
is still a failure
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for us to call things in,
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call things by its right name,
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whether it's our
secret sin or somebody else's.
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So I think there
is still a room for us
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to call things
by its right name.
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So I appreciate that one.
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There's one more and
we'll go to our discussion.
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Religious,
religious preferences and
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raising a child,
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raising a child around that
environment that could be tough
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'cause no parent wants to
see their child take that route.
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Me personally, I
do not support that.
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I feel it's not cool
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but everybody
has their own reason
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and their own purposes
for what they do in this life.
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All right.
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And I tag along
with him going well,
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I'm brought up
in a Christian home,
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we weren't brought
up, you know, same sex,
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you know, so I mean,
kind of all place in,
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just happy to believe
what they believe in so.
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All right. There you have it.
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A number of young
people with their opinion.
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So, let's get some reactions
from the videos from you guys.
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Who wants to start?
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Come on, go ahead.
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I guess I'll start.
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You know I mean,
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if we just go based
on the Bible, you know,
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we know that homosexuality
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and all the stuff is
just not right, you know.
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And I don't know if it
makes sense to start going
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into the whole nature
versus nurture thing, you know,
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but we do have to
kind of consider the fact,
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the Bible says we're born
in sin and shapen in iniquity,
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you know, and so I
mean, your feelings come up,
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you know, I always tell people
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you cannot help
the way you feel,
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you know, you can't
help the way you feel
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but you can definitely decide
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what to do with
those feelings, you know.
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And so, I don't know if
that was a great place to start
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All right.
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It was honest
place to start, you know,
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I think that we are definitely
a feeling-driven society.
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And we can show that I mean,
shows with our little cliches,
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do you, I'm gonna do
me, whatever makes you happy
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or this is my feeling and
when you're driven by feeling
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without any logic
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and especially with
no biblical foundation
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to steer those feelings,
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you are gonna just do you which
in our society it's prevalent
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that exploring your
sexuality with another person
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with the opposite sex and
the same sex, it's popular.
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It's in all the movies,
it's in all the TV shows.
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And I was even
speaking with a friend
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who is trying to, you know,
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they when they feel like
one of their gifts is acting
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and they want to
do commercials in TV
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but they want to
do it the right way
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but they were saying
they are having a hard time
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getting in the door
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because bisexual
and homosexuality
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is the new minority.
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That's the characters
that all these commercials
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and commercial
companies are looking for.
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They want people
to play homosexual
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and bisexual characters
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on TV and in media
and advertisements.
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Wow.
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Yeah, what I got
from the videos, you know,
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I think that the Bible is
beginning to lose credibility
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because of Christians, you know,
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if you noticed one of
the girls said that you know,
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the Bible clearly
says that it's wrong,
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you know, but she says,
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but we should
still be accepting of it.
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But then the other
brother on the video also said
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that we have a blind
hatred towards people
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who are struggling with this
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and I think we've
given people the idea
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that God is angry at
them, that they are sinful,
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that they are wretched,
it's the worst sin of all
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and I do not
believe that that is true.
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I think we can still tell
people God is understanding,
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God loves you,
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although He may not
approve of what you're doing.
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God still wants to see you saved
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and He wants to help
you through your struggle.
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Right, right.
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That's a good point.
It's a powerful point too.
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You know, people
need to hear that.
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Yeah.
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Brittany, do you want
to add anything to it?
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Yeah, one thing that I could
agree with in the videos was
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that we do have
freedom of choice.
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A person can choose if they
want to, have this preference
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but it doesn't mean
that their choice is right.
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There is still a right or wrong.
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And that's something
we need to highlight.
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Yeah, yeah. Okay.
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All right, you know, this is
definitely a sensitive topic.
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So I do want us to kind
of discuss a little bit more
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about why do you think that now,
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you talked about the
media kind of promoting
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the type of lifestyle.
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Why do you think now it has
become so much more prevalent,
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this whole
bisexuality, you know,
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not just being satisfied
with having the opposite sex
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but now you need to
go with the same sex
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and if you do that, it's okay,
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you know, threesomes
and all these are things
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that we are so
excited about now?
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What is that really cause or
led to that being so open now?
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Well, I mean,
historically, you know,
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people kind of
approach homosexuality
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as if it hasn't existed
until modern times, you know.
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People have been
homosexual for a long time.
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It's just wasn't, you know,
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it wasn't okay to
come out and say, you know,
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you read about secret
meetings with guys doing stuff
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and all kind of
crazy stuff if you go back.
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But today, it's just
accepted man, you know,
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especially in a country
that is built on civil rights.
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You have to really think
about when you say civil rights
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and rights for
everyone, you know then,
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I mean, you
really have to say, well,
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that means the homosexual
should have their rights too.
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And the same way, you
shouldn't be able to talk
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about black
people in certain way
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or be degregate women in
a certain way, you should,
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homosexuals should
have those same rights.
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And so when you live
in a society like that,
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you know, it becomes to
be politically incorrect
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to start speaking out
directly on homosexuality
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which is this
struggle you saw on the videos
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where they would
say, I know it's wrong
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but I know also
that because you know,
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I want to be politically
right, I'm supposed to say,
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but if they want to
choose it, you know,
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then they should be
able to choose that so...
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Yeah, yeah.
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And that's kind
of what we run into,
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especially as Christians, I
mean, the pastors, you know,
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all of us are in
that kind of realm,
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you know, how do we really,
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you know,
especially for our time,
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how do we really
speak out against and say,
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look, this is wrong.
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But you already know is
as soon as you say that,
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especially say
that on public realm,
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we are seeing
on, you know, on TV.
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You say that on a public realm,
people are gonna say well,
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hold on, hold on a
second, you can't, you know,
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you can't be
saying stuff like that,
00:11:02.09\00:11:03.43
you can't talk bad
about this, you know,
00:11:03.46\00:11:05.49
we have rights, we
have feelings and why not.
00:11:05.53\00:11:08.16
So how do you really, you
know, speak out against it
00:11:08.20\00:11:11.47
but still be able to
be sensitive to others
00:11:11.50\00:11:14.77
in what they are going through.
00:11:14.80\00:11:16.97
Well, you know, I
think the main thing is,
00:11:17.01\00:11:21.54
you know, they say
action speak louder than words.
00:11:21.58\00:11:24.18
And a big part of what we do is
00:11:24.21\00:11:25.88
we do a lot of
speaking without enough action.
00:11:25.91\00:11:28.75
So we're quick to point
fingers and say you're a sinner,
00:11:28.78\00:11:31.85
and you're bad and
you're wrong, no, no, no.
00:11:31.89\00:11:33.92
And we're walking around
slapping people on the wrist
00:11:33.96\00:11:36.83
without putting
an arm around them.
00:11:36.86\00:11:38.76
And just like with a
child or with a friend,
00:11:38.79\00:11:41.56
there's times where we
have to tell our friends like,
00:11:41.60\00:11:44.27
that's not right or you know,
00:11:44.30\00:11:45.63
how you need to
make a different choice
00:11:45.67\00:11:47.37
but what if we just did that,
00:11:47.40\00:11:48.74
almost like walked
away and show no compassion,
00:11:48.77\00:11:51.64
no empathy, no conversation,
00:11:51.67\00:11:54.98
we have to build
relationships with people.
00:11:55.01\00:11:56.58
You can't just walk
in to somebody's life
00:11:56.61\00:11:59.51
and condemn them without
trying to understand them
00:11:59.55\00:12:03.85
or have a
conversation or be empathetic.
00:12:03.89\00:12:07.39
I mean, a lot of
people are struggling
00:12:07.42\00:12:09.79
with the need to be appreciated,
00:12:09.82\00:12:12.56
the need to be
accepted, the need to be loved.
00:12:12.59\00:12:16.06
And so, we have to remember
that Jesus is love, He is.
00:12:16.10\00:12:20.00
That's what He is.
00:12:20.04\00:12:21.37
So, you can't bring
Jesus into the situation
00:12:21.40\00:12:23.44
and then separate Him
from being a loving person.
00:12:23.47\00:12:26.41
I'm actually
reminded immediately
00:12:26.44\00:12:28.11
where God says I
chasten those who I love,
00:12:28.14\00:12:30.35
you know, that
discipline is a part of love
00:12:30.38\00:12:32.21
so I throw that in. Okay.
00:12:32.25\00:12:34.05
I would also add that
sometimes we feel like
00:12:34.08\00:12:37.52
the Bible is the only thing
that speaks out against it.
00:12:37.55\00:12:39.85
So we say, well, the
Bible says, the Bible says,
00:12:39.89\00:12:42.52
but there's also
the elements of science
00:12:42.56\00:12:44.89
and how the health
issues that come in
00:12:44.93\00:12:46.80
when you are being a
homosexual or even the emotions
00:12:46.83\00:12:50.17
and even the fact
that family loss all this,
00:12:50.20\00:12:52.83
there's so much different
risk that come to play that yes,
00:12:52.87\00:12:56.04
the Bible does, we go against it
00:12:56.07\00:12:57.61
but we can use other
avenues to help people
00:12:57.64\00:13:00.04
make the better choice.
00:13:00.08\00:13:01.78
Right.
00:13:01.81\00:13:03.14
Yeah, and that's a
good point, I mean,
00:13:03.18\00:13:04.51
God is not
saying not to do things
00:13:04.55\00:13:06.38
just for the sake of saying
not to do things, you know.
00:13:06.41\00:13:08.32
He's saying because
here is a plan, there's a way
00:13:08.35\00:13:11.19
and He wants our life
to be the best possible.
00:13:11.22\00:13:14.32
And so, you know, that's
a good point to bring out.
00:13:14.36\00:13:16.69
So if someone is struggling
with this and they are saying,
00:13:16.73\00:13:20.10
you know, I like,
you know, I'm a man,
00:13:20.13\00:13:22.86
I like women but I
also want to try, you know,
00:13:22.90\00:13:27.77
the same sex, you know,
00:13:27.80\00:13:29.47
reverse is
someone's woman saying that,
00:13:29.50\00:13:31.41
you know, the
same type of thing.
00:13:31.44\00:13:32.77
You know, what
do you say to them?
00:13:32.81\00:13:34.88
You know, what do
you say to them and say,
00:13:34.91\00:13:36.48
I, they're saying I just
want to try it once, I'm just,
00:13:36.51\00:13:38.81
I feel like something that
is gonna really increase my fun,
00:13:38.85\00:13:42.95
my sex and everything, my
sex life is gonna be great.
00:13:42.98\00:13:45.29
And what you really say to them
00:13:45.32\00:13:46.65
and if they're
just saying, you know,
00:13:46.69\00:13:48.02
I am still with
the opposite sex,
00:13:48.06\00:13:50.46
but I just want to
try, you know, this thing?
00:13:50.49\00:13:54.36
Well, I mean, as
a pastor, you know,
00:13:54.40\00:13:57.23
taking every word that
you just said just now.
00:13:57.27\00:13:59.47
At first I'm gonna say
praise God because they say,
00:13:59.50\00:14:03.41
it's a struggle.
00:14:03.44\00:14:04.77
And for me, I'm
happy that it's a struggle.
00:14:04.81\00:14:06.98
It's not something that
00:14:07.01\00:14:08.34
they are
completely accepting of that,
00:14:08.38\00:14:09.71
they are opening
themselves up too.
00:14:09.74\00:14:11.08
I think that any
sin in our lives,
00:14:11.11\00:14:12.81
if it's a struggle for you,
00:14:12.85\00:14:14.38
that is a area where
God is convicting you.
00:14:14.42\00:14:16.62
And so, I would
say to that person,
00:14:16.65\00:14:17.99
you know, praise God man,
00:14:18.02\00:14:19.35
that you recognize
that this is, you know,
00:14:19.39\00:14:22.12
probably not the best choice
you should make for your life
00:14:22.16\00:14:24.26
and you want to make
better decisions and I see that
00:14:24.29\00:14:26.53
as the conviction of the Holy
Spirit in your life right now.
00:14:26.56\00:14:29.10
This has not come from you,
00:14:29.13\00:14:30.47
but God is telling
you and teaching you,
00:14:30.50\00:14:32.23
trying to bring
you to a better place.
00:14:32.27\00:14:33.64
I actually would
be pretty comfortable
00:14:33.94\00:14:36.34
with somebody saying that. Okay.
00:14:36.37\00:14:37.97
I think too, we got
to start at the point
00:14:38.01\00:14:40.34
where we are able to tell people
00:14:40.38\00:14:41.71
that the feelings
you're having is natural.
00:14:41.74\00:14:44.45
You know, the Bible
says, and like I said earlier,
00:14:44.48\00:14:46.28
we were born in sin
and shapen in iniquity,
00:14:46.31\00:14:47.98
you know, God gave man
over to a reprobate mind.
00:14:48.02\00:14:50.39
I think what we do
ourselves a disservice
00:14:50.42\00:14:52.62
when we talk about salvation,
00:14:52.65\00:14:54.19
is we kind of paint this picture
00:14:54.22\00:14:55.56
as when I give
my life to Christ,
00:14:55.59\00:14:56.93
all of sudden every thing
bad should just disappear.
00:14:56.96\00:15:00.43
Well, Paul tells us,
there's a struggle of nature
00:15:00.46\00:15:02.53
inside of you. Yeah.
00:15:02.56\00:15:03.90
You know, a baby is not bad
00:15:03.93\00:15:05.27
because he crawls
over to put his hand
00:15:05.30\00:15:06.63
in the electric socket.
00:15:06.67\00:15:08.00
He is what he
naturally wants to do.
00:15:08.04\00:15:10.01
He's curious.
00:15:10.04\00:15:11.37
You know,
curiosity is not a sin.
00:15:11.41\00:15:13.01
It's responding
to that curiosity
00:15:13.04\00:15:14.64
and we have to be able
to let people know that
00:15:14.68\00:15:16.95
just because you
are curious doesn't mean
00:15:16.98\00:15:18.51
that you have sin, you know.
00:15:18.55\00:15:20.05
But now that you
are curious, you know,
00:15:20.08\00:15:21.68
here's what we can do not
to act on those curiosities.
00:15:21.72\00:15:24.85
Right. Right.
00:15:24.89\00:15:26.22
And, you know, I
work on a college campus.
00:15:26.25\00:15:29.89
I see quite a bit of, you know,
00:15:29.92\00:15:33.90
young people who are
struggling with choices,
00:15:33.93\00:15:36.30
who are struggling with
the things they see on media,
00:15:36.33\00:15:39.00
they are struggling
with the images they hear
00:15:39.03\00:15:42.30
and the music they
like to listen to, you know.
00:15:42.34\00:15:46.11
And when students come to
me and they say, hey chap,
00:15:46.14\00:15:49.24
you know, I'm
struggling or hey, chap,
00:15:49.28\00:15:52.51
all my friends decided
that they wanted to you know,
00:15:52.55\00:15:56.38
engage in bisexual behavior.
00:15:56.42\00:15:59.02
You know, I challenge
them to think critically.
00:15:59.05\00:16:01.36
A lot of times we
separate emotion from thinking,
00:16:01.39\00:16:04.46
why, what's behind it,
00:16:04.49\00:16:07.16
was there
something in your past,
00:16:07.20\00:16:08.80
were you
molested, were you touched,
00:16:08.83\00:16:11.80
did somebody do something to you
00:16:11.83\00:16:13.80
to incite those
unnatural desires?
00:16:13.84\00:16:17.11
Are you just following a trend?
00:16:17.14\00:16:19.11
Are you just wanted to do it
00:16:19.14\00:16:20.48
'cause your
friendship circle decided
00:16:20.51\00:16:22.51
that everybody wanted to do it?
00:16:22.54\00:16:25.05
And really work
through some of those emotions,
00:16:25.08\00:16:27.62
some of those
feelings, some of those choices
00:16:27.65\00:16:29.58
and do some
critical thinking about why,
00:16:29.62\00:16:31.65
what are the long
term results of this
00:16:31.69\00:16:35.22
so that's what I'm gonna say.
00:16:35.26\00:16:36.89
And the fact that brought out
00:16:36.93\00:16:38.59
that this is
happening on college campuses,
00:16:38.63\00:16:43.20
not just college campus
but our college campuses.
00:16:43.23\00:16:46.40
It's something
that we really have to
00:16:46.43\00:16:48.24
and that's what
we're discussing it,
00:16:48.27\00:16:49.60
really bring it out of
the dark because, you know,
00:16:49.64\00:16:51.04
this is, it's
not right, you know,
00:16:51.07\00:16:53.17
biblically and we
have to encourage people
00:16:53.21\00:16:55.14
to have that struggle,
00:16:55.18\00:16:56.61
you know, to fight against
it, not just accept it because,
00:16:56.64\00:17:00.15
hey, everybody else
is accepting it but no,
00:17:00.18\00:17:01.82
you know, this is not
what God is accepting.
00:17:01.85\00:17:03.62
He wants you to
get higher, higher
00:17:03.65\00:17:05.02
and better and better, you know.
00:17:05.05\00:17:06.59
If I could I think, I
think we should make a point too
00:17:06.62\00:17:08.89
for the adults who
are watching the show,
00:17:08.92\00:17:10.66
they may be married or
people who are in relationships,
00:17:10.69\00:17:13.46
there's one thing that my
fiance and I've talked about,
00:17:13.50\00:17:16.16
one of the problems that
have feed into this stuff
00:17:16.20\00:17:18.70
is the lack of good heterosexual
00:17:18.73\00:17:22.14
examples of relationships
00:17:22.17\00:17:23.67
or relationship examples.
00:17:23.71\00:17:25.21
There are a lot of homes,
00:17:25.24\00:17:26.57
I grew up in a
single parent home,
00:17:26.61\00:17:27.94
you know, and so matter of fact,
00:17:27.98\00:17:29.64
my mother has 11 sisters.
00:17:29.68\00:17:31.15
I grew up around all women.
00:17:31.18\00:17:32.51
I can braid here, I
can give you a relaxer,
00:17:32.55\00:17:35.22
I'm being for real, you know,
00:17:35.25\00:17:37.12
that's the kind of
stuff that would lead a person
00:17:37.15\00:17:39.19
towards thinking more feminine,
00:17:39.22\00:17:41.06
you know, so there has
to be a balance in the home
00:17:41.09\00:17:43.69
and so like myself, my fiance,
00:17:43.73\00:17:45.06
we've said that when
we're married, you know,
00:17:45.09\00:17:47.83
we will try as best
as possible to exemplify
00:17:47.86\00:17:51.97
what a great heterosexual
relation looks like,
00:17:52.00\00:17:54.07
you know, like don't be afraid
to walk and hold the hands
00:17:54.10\00:17:56.67
and to put your
arm around, you know,
00:17:56.71\00:17:58.04
your wife or hug your husband
00:17:58.07\00:18:00.38
and show them that this is what
00:18:00.41\00:18:02.01
healthy heterosexual
relationship looks like
00:18:02.04\00:18:04.48
so I think that's
something we should, you know.
00:18:04.51\00:18:06.01
Okay, yeah.
00:18:06.05\00:18:07.38
And just from,
00:18:07.42\00:18:09.02
just guess being
a little authentic
00:18:09.05\00:18:10.39
and being straightforward,
00:18:10.42\00:18:12.95
I had a family
member come to me recently
00:18:12.99\00:18:15.52
and say, hey, I'm struggling.
00:18:15.56\00:18:18.99
And trying to figure out
what to do with that feeling
00:18:19.03\00:18:22.96
and I think a lot of times
00:18:23.00\00:18:24.50
we want to keep
it at arm's length.
00:18:24.53\00:18:26.13
That's out there.
That's over there.
00:18:26.17\00:18:28.94
But what do you do
when it's your cousin,
00:18:28.97\00:18:31.21
your sister, your
niece, your, you know,
00:18:31.24\00:18:35.31
a parent or whatever it may
be, those things can be very...
00:18:35.34\00:18:38.98
It's not easy.
00:18:39.01\00:18:40.35
Yes, it's not easy to
deal with those things.
00:18:40.38\00:18:42.22
But you know, I truly
believe that part of that
00:18:42.25\00:18:46.99
is like Korey said,
struggling with relationships.
00:18:47.02\00:18:50.73
They would have
their heart broken over
00:18:50.76\00:18:52.83
and over and over
and over by you know,
00:18:52.86\00:18:56.16
within
heterosexual relationships.
00:18:56.20\00:18:58.07
So I said, forget it.
00:18:58.10\00:18:59.67
I'm just gonna go to the other
side somebody who is like me,
00:18:59.70\00:19:02.87
who understands me and I
think we have to exchange that
00:19:02.90\00:19:06.41
and say, yes,
Brittany is like me
00:19:06.44\00:19:09.74
'cause she 's a female
00:19:09.78\00:19:11.48
and so yeah, she understands
it to a certain degree
00:19:11.51\00:19:14.05
but I wasn't created
to be known that way.
00:19:14.08\00:19:17.45
Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah.
00:19:17.49\00:19:18.82
So... I could
probably add to that
00:19:18.85\00:19:20.56
'cause I've also had
another friend come to me
00:19:20.59\00:19:24.99
and what happened for
her was she was abused
00:19:25.03\00:19:28.03
and abused so badly that
even when she tried to engage
00:19:28.06\00:19:31.17
in other relationships with men,
00:19:31.20\00:19:32.83
it just was not
working out for her.
00:19:32.87\00:19:35.20
So she just felt more
comfortable with other women
00:19:35.24\00:19:38.57
and sometimes we have to really
look at what is the core issue.
00:19:38.61\00:19:41.64
If this is the problem,
00:19:41.68\00:19:43.01
how do we go about helping them
00:19:43.04\00:19:44.38
get counseling or
recovering from this,
00:19:44.41\00:19:46.92
so they can be able to embrace
00:19:46.95\00:19:49.22
healthy
heterosexual relationships.
00:19:49.25\00:19:51.49
And with that, I mean,
00:19:51.52\00:19:52.85
if a young
person is listening now,
00:19:52.89\00:19:54.22
we might want to let them know
00:19:54.26\00:19:55.59
if something
has happened to you,
00:19:55.62\00:19:56.96
you want to get help,
you know, find a counselor,
00:19:56.99\00:19:58.39
you know, somebody
that you can fight in.
00:19:58.43\00:20:00.26
Go to your school, talk
to, you know, to somebody
00:20:00.30\00:20:02.33
but you know, there's a lot of,
you know, problems that we have
00:20:02.36\00:20:05.23
that stem from
things that happen.
00:20:05.27\00:20:06.60
This is children that
we don't think affect us
00:20:06.63\00:20:08.17
but you know,
00:20:08.20\00:20:09.54
we might need to
get help that way too.
00:20:09.57\00:20:10.91
Yeah.
00:20:10.94\00:20:12.27
And there are also some issues
00:20:12.31\00:20:13.64
that we kind of
bring upon ourselves
00:20:13.68\00:20:15.01
and I think about this
when talking to my friend
00:20:15.04\00:20:16.38
about the whole porn
industry and the whole addiction
00:20:16.41\00:20:18.01
that a lot of men,
even pastors have with porn,
00:20:18.05\00:20:20.18
porn addiction and
you know, I remember
00:20:20.22\00:20:22.85
he was telling
me that, you know,
00:20:22.88\00:20:24.22
I think I mentioned this before
that he didn't think it was sex
00:20:24.25\00:20:27.62
unless he was
two girls, you know,
00:20:27.66\00:20:29.82
or some three girls whatever
00:20:29.86\00:20:31.79
and so, you know, he
didn't start off that way
00:20:31.83\00:20:34.93
that the first
encounter was like that.
00:20:34.96\00:20:36.87
Gradually it happened overtime
00:20:36.90\00:20:38.60
because of what
he was looking at,
00:20:38.63\00:20:40.94
what he was watching
00:20:40.97\00:20:42.34
and even I know
that some people say that
00:20:42.37\00:20:44.21
as you're watching these
acts that happen on the screen,
00:20:44.24\00:20:46.54
you are seeing even
if it's just, you know,
00:20:46.57\00:20:48.51
heterosexual, sexual encounter
00:20:48.54\00:20:50.15
as you're watching on the screen
00:20:50.18\00:20:51.51
and you are looking,
00:20:51.55\00:20:52.88
you're having to look
at if you're as a man,
00:20:52.91\00:20:54.25
you happen to look at the man,
you know, engage in his actions
00:20:54.28\00:20:56.32
so it would have
been no, psychologically,
00:20:56.35\00:20:58.15
you start to become, you know,
with some homosexual thoughts,
00:20:58.19\00:21:02.06
you know, and it
arouse because of
00:21:02.09\00:21:03.59
of what you're seeing from a man
00:21:03.63\00:21:04.96
that should
never happen, you know,
00:21:04.99\00:21:06.33
so, you know, you may be kind of
00:21:06.36\00:21:07.70
getting yourself
into these things
00:21:07.73\00:21:09.20
and you didn't even
realize, you just think,
00:21:09.23\00:21:10.57
oh, it's harmless, you know,
00:21:10.60\00:21:11.93
I'm just kind of
having some fun with
00:21:11.97\00:21:13.30
you know,
pleasure seeking, whatever.
00:21:13.34\00:21:14.67
But in the end you
slip into this thing
00:21:14.70\00:21:16.04
and next thing you know,
you're trying to experiment
00:21:16.07\00:21:17.41
to a greater
and a higher degree.
00:21:17.44\00:21:19.27
And you know, you are
just going after that.
00:21:19.31\00:21:21.34
Yeah, I think that's the
pull of pornography in general.
00:21:21.38\00:21:24.25
I mean, it begins with
just a man and a woman,
00:21:24.28\00:21:26.31
you know, having normal
casual, you know, everyday sex
00:21:26.35\00:21:28.95
and then next thing you know,
they're changing positions,
00:21:28.98\00:21:31.09
next thing you know,
there are introducing toys,
00:21:31.12\00:21:32.85
next thing you know,
introducing another person
00:21:32.89\00:21:34.42
and then next thing you know,
00:21:34.46\00:21:35.79
it's now introducing
animals and all types of things.
00:21:35.82\00:21:37.79
So I mean, seriously, you
know, yeah, that's what happens.
00:21:37.83\00:21:40.70
That's the pull and
that's the bait of it.
00:21:40.73\00:21:42.40
And so it just keeps getting,
00:21:42.43\00:21:45.13
I don't want to use this
word but for that person,
00:21:45.17\00:21:47.10
better and better and
better, you know what I mean.
00:21:47.14\00:21:49.20
And so now in
our day to day lives
00:21:49.24\00:21:51.41
when we are thinking about sex
00:21:51.44\00:21:52.77
and we're thinking
about experimenting,
00:21:52.81\00:21:54.14
it's just like
well, you know, why not.
00:21:54.18\00:21:56.28
It becomes
easier and easier to do,
00:21:56.31\00:21:58.71
the more we see that.
00:21:58.75\00:22:00.08
Yeah.
00:22:00.12\00:22:01.58
Exactly, you know, you just--
00:22:01.62\00:22:03.02
And you know, really
enough is not enough,
00:22:03.05\00:22:04.39
you know, it's like a drug.
00:22:04.42\00:22:05.75
You have to get
more and more and more.
00:22:05.79\00:22:07.19
And so where you
really draw the line,
00:22:07.22\00:22:09.59
you know, where do
you really stop, so.
00:22:09.62\00:22:11.99
Well, you said something
that I think is important.
00:22:12.03\00:22:14.16
You said, you
know, pleasure seeking
00:22:14.20\00:22:16.30
and you know,
for our young people
00:22:16.33\00:22:17.93
I think a verse comes to
mind as soon as you said,
00:22:17.97\00:22:20.34
you know, "Seek ye
first the kingdom of God."
00:22:20.37\00:22:22.37
You know, no one is
telling you that being,
00:22:22.40\00:22:24.17
you know,
pleasure is bad, you know.
00:22:24.21\00:22:25.87
You want to enjoy life,
you want to enjoy things
00:22:25.91\00:22:28.41
but that's why Christ says,
seek first the kingdom of God
00:22:28.44\00:22:30.71
'cause once you seek that first,
00:22:30.75\00:22:32.45
it kind of holds
everything else into subjection.
00:22:32.48\00:22:35.05
You know, if I get up and say,
00:22:35.08\00:22:36.45
I'm gonna have
devotion in the morning
00:22:36.48\00:22:37.82
and before I go to
bed, then late at night,
00:22:37.85\00:22:39.59
I'm gonna be a
little bit less inclined
00:22:39.62\00:22:40.96
to watch pornography.
00:22:40.99\00:22:42.32
You know, I'm gonna
be a little less inclined
00:22:42.36\00:22:43.69
to do these certain things
00:22:43.73\00:22:45.06
because God is fresh on my
mind 'cause I sought that first.
00:22:45.09\00:22:47.70
And so, you know, we
should definitely seek
00:22:47.73\00:22:49.90
first the kingdom of
God and then let God allow,
00:22:49.93\00:22:53.07
you know, His Spirit to
kind of point us in the way
00:22:53.10\00:22:55.07
which pleasures, you
know, would be good for us, so--
00:22:55.10\00:22:58.17
And you know, if
we could be honest
00:22:58.21\00:23:00.68
and maybe this is my experience
00:23:00.71\00:23:02.04
'cause I'm working on
a college campus is that
00:23:02.08\00:23:04.05
most college students,
00:23:04.08\00:23:05.41
most young people
know it's not right.
00:23:05.45\00:23:07.42
But it's part of the culture,
00:23:07.45\00:23:10.55
it's part of the things to
do while you are in college,
00:23:10.59\00:23:14.06
smoke, drink,
have sex, experiment,
00:23:14.09\00:23:17.16
then when you get out of school,
00:23:17.19\00:23:18.63
marry a guy, go off have babies,
00:23:18.66\00:23:21.13
live happily ever after.
00:23:21.16\00:23:22.86
But it becomes such a trend
00:23:22.90\00:23:24.70
that people get
stuck in that trend
00:23:24.73\00:23:28.37
and they get
just something to do.
00:23:28.40\00:23:30.07
And I think we have
to be a very cautious
00:23:30.11\00:23:32.54
about how we talk to our
young men and our young women
00:23:32.57\00:23:35.94
and say, what
are you doing today
00:23:35.98\00:23:38.25
to become the person you
want to be in the future.
00:23:38.28\00:23:41.15
Are the things
you're doing right now
00:23:41.18\00:23:43.15
leading and lending
itself to be on the type of wife
00:23:43.18\00:23:47.96
or the type of woman or man,
00:23:47.99\00:23:49.92
young man you want
to be in the future,
00:23:49.96\00:23:51.76
so start thinking
about those choices,
00:23:51.79\00:23:53.50
pure choices now so
that five years from now,
00:23:53.53\00:23:56.80
you're not trying to figure
out how to be in a relationship
00:23:56.83\00:24:00.44
with you know with
the guy or whatever.
00:24:00.47\00:24:02.30
That's such a good advice to me.
00:24:02.34\00:24:03.67
I think, you know, many of
us who've had these experiences
00:24:03.71\00:24:06.27
and we shared some of our stuff,
00:24:06.31\00:24:07.64
you know, where we've gone down
00:24:07.68\00:24:09.01
and made many, you know,
00:24:09.04\00:24:10.38
many, many poor
choices in my life,
00:24:10.41\00:24:11.75
you know, I never
really did stop and think
00:24:11.78\00:24:13.11
okay, well, I never imagine
00:24:13.15\00:24:14.55
that I would get
to the certain point,
00:24:14.58\00:24:15.92
I never stopped and thought,
00:24:15.95\00:24:17.29
okay, let me make
sure I don't make,
00:24:17.32\00:24:20.36
you know, watch that first video
00:24:20.39\00:24:21.72
or do this thing here
00:24:21.76\00:24:23.09
and that's why I
won't get to a bad place.
00:24:23.12\00:24:24.66
I never thought that
would happen to me, you know.
00:24:24.69\00:24:26.06
So I think it's really important
00:24:26.09\00:24:27.43
for young people to
watch this and realize
00:24:27.46\00:24:29.83
that you have to be
even though you are young,
00:24:29.86\00:24:32.43
you have to think
future wise, you know.
00:24:32.47\00:24:34.40
You have to be mature
and smart to think ahead
00:24:34.44\00:24:36.67
because you're
shaping your life,
00:24:36.71\00:24:38.21
you know, you, just
like what you eat, you know,
00:24:38.24\00:24:39.84
you're shaping your future
by what you're doing right now.
00:24:39.87\00:24:42.68
Yeah. Okay.
00:24:42.71\00:24:45.08
So now I want to go
with what do you do,
00:24:45.11\00:24:47.75
I say it like
that, what do you do
00:24:47.78\00:24:49.25
if you have those urges, okay.
00:24:49.28\00:24:52.05
What should you do
different and I also want to ask
00:24:52.09\00:24:54.26
if you are approached by someone
00:24:54.29\00:24:55.62
who is trying to
experiment with you,
00:24:55.66\00:24:58.49
you know, what do you do?
00:24:58.53\00:25:00.03
So it's a kind of
two part question.
00:25:00.06\00:25:02.16
Yeah, well, I think
Korey kind of alluded to it,
00:25:02.20\00:25:04.30
you know, if you're
having those urges right now,
00:25:04.33\00:25:06.90
seek help, especially if
you find it to be a struggle
00:25:06.94\00:25:09.37
in something that you know,
00:25:09.40\00:25:10.74
you do not want to
continue in your life,
00:25:10.77\00:25:12.11
I encourage you to actually
go to somebody that you trust.
00:25:12.14\00:25:14.91
But at the end of
the day, Josh, I mean,
00:25:14.94\00:25:16.51
this is a task
for God and God alone.
00:25:16.54\00:25:19.51
Only He can deal with, you know,
00:25:19.55\00:25:21.78
natural or unnatural tendencies,
00:25:21.82\00:25:23.22
however you want to look at it
00:25:23.25\00:25:24.59
but at the end of the day,
it's something that, you know,
00:25:24.62\00:25:26.19
we're fighting against
our own bodies in a sense
00:25:26.22\00:25:28.39
if I'm struggling that.
00:25:28.42\00:25:29.76
But also, if
somebody is coming to me
00:25:29.79\00:25:31.23
and they are having these urges
00:25:31.26\00:25:33.16
they has, I think there
has to be a delicate balance
00:25:33.19\00:25:35.46
between truth and love.
00:25:35.50\00:25:37.37
I think that love without
truth is not forcible enough
00:25:37.40\00:25:41.10
and I think that
truth without love is empty
00:25:41.14\00:25:43.81
and I think that
we have to you know,
00:25:43.84\00:25:45.94
love that person
and say, hey, I love you
00:25:45.97\00:25:47.74
no matter what you do,
00:25:47.78\00:25:49.11
no matter what
happens in your life,
00:25:49.14\00:25:50.48
just as God does
and it's unconditional
00:25:50.51\00:25:52.31
but at the same time
I'm not gonna enable you
00:25:52.35\00:25:54.58
and I'm not gonna support you
00:25:54.62\00:25:56.02
in any habits that
you engage yourself in.
00:25:56.05\00:25:57.49
Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:57.52\00:25:58.85
I definitely agree with John.
00:25:58.89\00:26:00.22
I think, one of the biggest
problems of sin in general
00:26:00.26\00:26:02.72
is that we always try
to do it by ourselves.
00:26:02.76\00:26:04.89
You know, you got to find people
00:26:04.93\00:26:07.30
who you can talk to.
00:26:07.33\00:26:08.66
Find people who you
can hold you accountable.
00:26:08.70\00:26:10.47
And I want to real.
00:26:10.50\00:26:11.83
In my life, I'm
talking as a young man,
00:26:11.87\00:26:13.87
the strength I have
is people like you guys,
00:26:13.90\00:26:15.80
you know, Josh, John,
dropped my boy name Sheik,
00:26:15.84\00:26:18.64
you know, that I
can call and really say,
00:26:18.67\00:26:21.81
"Listen man," and I do this.
00:26:21.84\00:26:23.24
You guys know it.
00:26:23.28\00:26:24.61
"Today is a hard
day, please pray for me?
00:26:24.65\00:26:27.88
Or you know, just being
able to say that to somebody
00:26:27.92\00:26:30.79
kind of dissuades me
00:26:30.82\00:26:32.15
from whatever is
coming up inside of me
00:26:32.19\00:26:33.99
And so don't try to
fight the battle by yourself.
00:26:34.02\00:26:36.16
You know, get friends,
00:26:36.19\00:26:37.53
get accountability
partners, you know.
00:26:37.56\00:26:39.19
Yeah, that's true.
00:26:39.23\00:26:40.56
I definitely have my team
00:26:40.60\00:26:41.93
that I go to as
well in the struggles.
00:26:41.96\00:26:43.30
Yeah, go ahead.
00:26:43.33\00:26:44.67
And I think one of the things
that a person needs to realize
00:26:44.70\00:26:46.03
is it's not going to
be conquered in one day.
00:26:46.07\00:26:50.51
It might be a life long struggle
00:26:50.54\00:26:52.91
and you have to wake up
every morning or wake up every,
00:26:52.94\00:26:55.78
and just
constantly pray about it
00:26:55.81\00:26:57.58
and say, God, help me with this,
00:26:57.61\00:26:59.91
help me not to be placed
in a compromising situation
00:26:59.95\00:27:03.59
and again, accountable partners.
00:27:03.62\00:27:05.65
And if I have
someone approach me,
00:27:05.69\00:27:07.79
I can just simply
tell them, I'm sorry,
00:27:07.82\00:27:10.33
that's not what I want to do.
00:27:10.36\00:27:12.19
This is, I just
don't agree with it.
00:27:12.23\00:27:13.73
I just don't want to.
00:27:13.76\00:27:15.36
Find somebody else and all.
00:27:15.40\00:27:17.47
And can I jump in and say,
00:27:17.50\00:27:18.90
make sure that
who you are telling
00:27:18.93\00:27:20.27
is not somebody
who's going to push you
00:27:20.30\00:27:22.90
or be like, "It's
okay, yeah, let's."
00:27:22.94\00:27:26.51
Make sure the
person you're talking to
00:27:26.54\00:27:27.88
is somebody who you
know, who is honest,
00:27:27.91\00:27:29.78
who is spiritual,
00:27:29.81\00:27:31.31
who's not going
down the same road as you
00:27:31.35\00:27:34.02
so that you're
not holding hands,
00:27:34.05\00:27:35.38
walking down the pathways.
00:27:35.42\00:27:38.92
I want to close
with the scripture text.
00:27:38.95\00:27:40.36
Romans Chapter 1,
I'm reading at verse 28.
00:27:40.39\00:27:42.89
"So it was when they gave God up
00:27:42.92\00:27:45.19
and were not
even acknowledge Him.
00:27:45.23\00:27:46.83
God gave them up to doing
everything their evil mind
00:27:46.86\00:27:49.26
could think of."
00:27:49.30\00:27:50.63
Remember, don't give up God.
00:27:50.67\00:27:52.00
Keep your mind straight in Him
00:27:52.03\00:27:53.37
and always remember
to make pure choices.
00:27:53.40\00:27:55.57
God bless.
00:27:55.60\00:27:56.94