The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Hello, and
welcome to Pure Choices.
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I'm your host,
Pastor Joshua Nelson.
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I'm so glad that
you decided to join us
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for another edition
of Pure Choices today.
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And we're gonna get
into another exciting topic.
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We're talking about
same sex or homosexuality,
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and even bisexuality,
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we're gonna talk
about this today.
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But before we do go into
that and introduce our panel,
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just wanna pause
for a moment of prayer.
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Dear heavenly Father,
we just ask again that
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You would guide us and
that You would be here with us
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today as we discuss, in
Jesus' name we pray, amen.
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Amen.
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All right, let's
begin introducing.
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Here to my left, we
have Dajanae Maxwell,
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who is a Oakwood
University theology student.
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Happy to have her here today.
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Also we have Kimberly Pearson,
who is the associate chaplain
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at Oakwood
University, all right.
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And then we have James Brandon,
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who is the chaplain
over there in Tampa,
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Florida at a university there,
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and so happy to
have him here as well.
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We have Jeremy
Anderson over there.
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Yes sir, yes sir,
who is a Christian author
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and a speaker as well, and
he's from Madison, Alabama.
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So we have a great panel.
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And a good discussion
we're gonna get into today,
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talking about same
sex, homosexuality.
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And this of
course is something that
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we have as
young people have seen
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and heard a lot about nowadays,
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and so we wanna
really get our perspective
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and kind of talk
about this as Christians
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and really discuss it.
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So the first question simply,
and this is a big question
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because people have
been asking and wondering,
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is homosexuality a sin?
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Yes. Homosexuality is a sin.
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And I know there's a lot going
on even in the Christian world,
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not even in the secular world
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that is trying
to argue against it.
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And one of the verses,
is it okay that if I read?
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One of the verses is
Romans 1:26-28, which says,
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"For this
reason God gave them up
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to dishonorable passions.
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For their women exchanged
natural relations for those
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that were contrary to nature,
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and the men likewise gave
up natural relations with women
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that were consumed with
passions for one another,
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men committing
shameful acts with men
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and receiving in themselves
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the due penalty
for their error."
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And there's basically
when I thought about the verse,
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it just basically says that
men are having sex with men,
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and women are
having sex with women,
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and that's
unnatural and contrary
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to what God has
ordained to happen.
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Right, right. Yeah,
so it's pretty clear.
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You know, what she said
was so clear, it's unnatural.
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You know, we
wanna get real deep,
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you know, I know
people, friends of mine
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who were like look
for specific verses,
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there are ton of
verses in the Bible.
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And we wanna twist it,
we wanna put it other ways,
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it's very clear, it's unnatural.
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Yeah.
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God made a rabbit,
He made a male rabbit,
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He made a female rabbit,
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get together they
have baby rabbits, right?
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And it's the same
with all of the animals.
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And it was the same thing,
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biblically He made
Adam and He made Eve.
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I mean, just to be
plain and practical.
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I think the problem
is, it's in our minds.
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We have a natural
sense of rebellion
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as opposed to
submission within God.
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And so I know even in myself
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when I was in the world
dealing with other sins,
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and I believe personally
that a sin is a sin, right?
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So if I'm drinking alcohol
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and this is sin
just like homosexuality.
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But you know, I try to justify
and I think when we move past
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that mode of trying to justify
and embrace it for what it is,
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you know, we can move
forward at that point.
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But I believe
it's definitely a sin,
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I concur with what you're saying
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but it's not natural.
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And I think that's
the number one red flag.
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Okay, okay.
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So then what I
asked is, you know,
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as being Christians on here,
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we're talking to others who are,
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and so we're trying to
live a pure life, you know,
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in Christian life,
can you be a Christian
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and a homosexual?
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And even as you're
thinking about that,
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can you be a
Christian and a fornicator?
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Can you be a
Christian and be bisexual?
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Can you be a Christian
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and someone who is
not making pure choices?
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You know, when it comes to that,
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you know, my take on it is,
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can you be a homosexual
and still be a Christian?
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Someone may challenge,
but my view as a Christian,
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is one who
really follows Christ.
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So one would say that
you can't be a Christian,
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a real Christian and
be a homosexual, right?
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That's living in sin openly,
whether you're embracing,
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whether you feel like
God made you that way,
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you know, what I tell people?
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God can remake
you, God can restore you
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if that's how you feel.
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So I believe that when you
live a life in open rebellion,
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that's when you're
taking God's name in vain.
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Taking His name
in vain isn't saying,
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"Oh, my God!"
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It's saying, "I'm a Christian,
I'm following Christ."
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But your life
reflects the opposite,
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you know, and so one would say
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that you can't be
just a raging alcoholic
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and then you just get
drunk and just live life
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how you wanna live life
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but then still
carry the name of Christ.
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One would say that
you can't be a Christian
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and can't be homosexual.
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Okay. Go, go ahead.
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Well, I'll just go.
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It's interesting about
the word Christian, you know,
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this relation obviously
the word Christian is Christ,
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you're going there, I can see.
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But you know, the
apostles in the New Testament,
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they didn't come
together and say,
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"You guys, let's call
ourselves Christians."
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Right. Right. Yeah, exactly.
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You know, the name was
given to them by others,
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and they were like, man,
they always talk about Christ,
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you know, they're always
doing things like Christ did.
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So they gave them that
name and they received it.
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It was a badge of honor to them.
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You know, we're Christian
because we believe in Christ
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and we follow His
steps and follow His plan.
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And as the whole, with
the whole a natural thing,
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God has an order,
and God is an orderly God
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and He has a plan
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and a purpose in a
way things should go.
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And when we're
not aligning ourselves
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with that agenda,
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then it's hard to
really having your room to say
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that we are truly
representing Christ
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or we're truly Christians.
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Okay, I understand. Yeah, yeah.
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I mean, he pretty much stole
the thought out of my head,
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you know, out of my mind.
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But you know, we're billboards,
we're advertisements,
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and so if I work
for certain company.
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But let's say I work
for, I don't know, Target,
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and I wear Walmart
pair of paraphernalia,
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I wear blue and khaki,
and I wear the Walmart badge
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and I walk around Walmart,
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would you come to
me and ask me for help?
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Nope. Why?
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You don't look the part.
Because I don't look the part.
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I'm not, I don't
look like I belong,
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I don't look like
someone who you can go to,
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to receive direction in Target.
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So if I say I'm a Christian,
but I look like, practice like,
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behave like the
world, then I'm not a beacon,
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I'm not a marker
that people can come to
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for identification
of how to get to Christ,
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what Christ is
supposed to look like,
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what Christ is
supposed to behave like.
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And so I think
that is where saying,
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I'm a Christian and I'm
openly homosexual comes out,
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but that's also
part of the reason
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why we have so
many closet homosexuals
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and so many closet bisexuals,
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and so many people who are
struggling with their sexuality
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that will practice quietly
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but still bear
the name of Christ.
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Now, you know, I want
to speak to and I just,
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you know, as you're saying
that I know and, you know,
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there's a whole
movement right now of just,
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of homosexual individuals
who really have, you know,
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they would say, you
know, of course no one can know
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who of us really has
relationship with God.
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But you know, has and
it seems to have a really
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some serious
relationship with God,
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you know, and the
true experience, you know.
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So how do we, you know,
really reconcile, you know,
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even lot of us who are
dealing with other sins,
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we have a relationship with God.
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We say that, you know
but yet we're still dealing
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with other sins
maybe not homosexuality.
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So I'm still not sure
if I'm agreeing with every,
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what you've all told...
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I'm not, might be, you
need to clarify for me I guess.
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And that's the part
that I wanted to speak on is
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I have a lot of
homosexual friends.
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And I watch this video
that basically spoke on
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what you just hit on
where the video started off
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with all these
individuals, male and females,
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speaking about how, you
know, they were in the church,
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and they grew up in the church,
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and they were
AYS, this or, you know,
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different
positions even in the church.
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And then realize that
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they didn't necessarily
have relationship with God
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because they
finally discovered one.
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So now they're talking
about how they love Christ.
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And then after
that, they go into
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but they now started realizing
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that I have
homosexuality tendencies wane.
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And so, the video
basically just described
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how these individuals
struggle with homosexuality,
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and they weren't necessarily
having homosexual relations
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but they were
certain, you know, the man,
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he may have did
his wrist like this
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or he may have been butch.
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And still, but still
have homosexual attractions.
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He, is he now not a Christian
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because he
wrestles against sexual,
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I mean, homosexual feelings.
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And I would say, "Yes,
he still is a Christian,"
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because the issue that I
had is the open homosexual
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where you're having sex
and you're just telling people
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that there's
nothing wrong with it,
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or you're not
necessarily having sex
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but still you don't
see anything wrong with it.
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I didn't have sex
yesterday and so I'm okay,
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but understanding that,
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"Okay, this is
something that I'm dealing with.
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This may be my thorn."
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The thorn in the
flesh that Paul speaks about
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that I pray for it to go away.
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There's someone
at Oakwood right now
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that has a video
out who talking about
00:10:06.57\00:10:08.50
he's prayed for
the thorn to go away.
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And it hasn't gone away.
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He's prayed on
the floor prostrate.
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"Lord, I do not want to be gay."
00:10:18.48\00:10:20.98
He's had sex with a
whole bunch of girls
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so that he can get away
from this homosexual feeling
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but it won't go anywhere.
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And so what he's
come to a conclusion
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and many other people
who struggle with this is,
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"This may be my thorn.
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I may always struggle with this
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but that doesn't mean
that I have to indulge in it
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and that's the difference.
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You know, that was
a really good point
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that you brought up.
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And I wanna make
sure that I re-innovate
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or clarify my thought
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'cause I don't want the panelist
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or the viewers to think
that I'm saying, you know,
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you can't love God or
you can't be a Christian
00:10:51.45\00:10:53.42
and still
struggle with this thing.
00:10:53.45\00:10:55.12
Yes, you can.
00:10:55.15\00:10:56.48
But there are those that
have homosexual tendencies
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and that's different from
00:10:59.65\00:11:00.99
practicing homosexuality, right?
00:11:01.02\00:11:02.69
You got a boyfriend,
00:11:02.72\00:11:04.06
you got a
girlfriend of the same sex,
00:11:04.09\00:11:06.36
that's different
when you just live openly
00:11:06.39\00:11:08.53
and boldly in sin.
00:11:08.56\00:11:09.90
But I believe that God
00:11:09.93\00:11:11.27
is claiming those
and saying, "Look.
00:11:11.30\00:11:12.63
Yes, you're my son.
Yes, you're my daughter.
00:11:12.67\00:11:14.00
And you're struggling with
this thing and I love you,"
00:11:14.04\00:11:15.64
because my sin, your
sin, our sins are no different
00:11:15.67\00:11:19.27
than someone that's in
the same sex relationship.
00:11:19.31\00:11:21.81
But the question
is are we struggling,
00:11:21.84\00:11:23.75
are we battling,
like are we asking God
00:11:23.78\00:11:26.35
to forgive us
and to make us new.
00:11:26.38\00:11:28.15
Are we submitting our will
to God and seeking His will?
00:11:28.18\00:11:32.35
See, a lot of times,
we fall victims to self.
00:11:32.39\00:11:35.59
We're living to please our self.
00:11:35.62\00:11:37.33
Well, this is
what feels natural.
00:11:37.36\00:11:38.69
Okay, but the
word says differently.
00:11:38.73\00:11:40.43
And so we need to
move to point where we say,
00:11:40.46\00:11:41.93
"You know what, God,
00:11:41.96\00:11:43.30
not my will but
Thy will be done."
00:11:43.33\00:11:45.40
It feels natural
because I was born into sin.
00:11:45.43\00:11:47.87
We're shaped
into iniquity, right?
00:11:47.90\00:11:49.80
So they were generational curses
00:11:49.84\00:11:51.31
that have been
often passed down,
00:11:51.34\00:11:53.07
but now the society
has embraced, right,
00:11:53.11\00:11:55.94
this thing of homosexuality.
00:11:55.98\00:11:57.85
And so it's like, "It's
okay, be loud, be proud,
00:11:57.88\00:12:00.55
be bold, be who you are."
00:12:00.58\00:12:02.05
And so now people
are coming out, say,
00:12:02.08\00:12:03.65
"Hey, this is me
00:12:03.69\00:12:05.02
and you have to
respect you'll take it."
00:12:05.05\00:12:06.39
Yeah, yeah.
00:12:06.42\00:12:07.76
And you have to be
careful with, you know,
00:12:07.79\00:12:09.12
listening to that type of
the society saying it to us,
00:12:09.16\00:12:11.89
because again, all of
us are born into the sin
00:12:11.93\00:12:14.46
as you just said.
00:12:14.50\00:12:15.83
And as young people
watching or even growing up,
00:12:15.86\00:12:18.23
the family needs to
remind the children that,
00:12:18.27\00:12:21.30
"Hey, you're gonna be
dealing with some things,"
00:12:21.34\00:12:22.87
you know,
"you're gonna have to be
00:12:22.90\00:12:24.44
living a life of self denial,"
00:12:24.47\00:12:25.84
just because it feels
good, just because I know,
00:12:25.87\00:12:28.48
I desire drugs or something
like that, I desire alcohol,
00:12:28.51\00:12:31.98
okay so now I'll just
indulge in my desires.
00:12:32.01\00:12:34.38
No, you have to
resist sometimes,
00:12:34.42\00:12:35.75
you have to resist.
00:12:35.78\00:12:37.12
I think the hard thing
with homosexuality and why,
00:12:37.15\00:12:38.92
we're gonna talk with
this, why it's such a hot topic
00:12:38.95\00:12:42.09
is because it
doesn't really seem like
00:12:42.12\00:12:44.13
it's really
hurting anybody, you know.
00:12:44.16\00:12:46.13
It doesn't seem like
00:12:46.16\00:12:47.50
it's really
hurting anybody directly
00:12:47.53\00:12:48.86
or even yourself, you know.
00:12:48.90\00:12:50.23
And so that's kind of like,
00:12:50.27\00:12:51.60
"Oh, then why are we
not supposed to do it?"
00:12:51.63\00:12:53.64
you know.
00:12:53.67\00:12:55.00
So what we wanna then
talk about is even further,
00:12:55.04\00:12:59.34
why is it?
00:12:59.37\00:13:00.71
Why is it bad? Why is it wrong?
00:13:00.74\00:13:03.28
Why is it something that
we shouldn't even discuss
00:13:03.31\00:13:05.65
and say that shouldn't be
a part of us as Christians.
00:13:05.68\00:13:08.12
Well, you know, one
of the things you said
00:13:08.15\00:13:09.68
where people say it
doesn't hurt anybody,
00:13:09.72\00:13:12.75
you can't judge me, you can't,
00:13:12.79\00:13:15.16
you know, don't look
at me, look at yourself,
00:13:15.19\00:13:17.56
but part of the thing
00:13:17.59\00:13:18.93
is we call ourselves Christians.
00:13:18.96\00:13:20.30
We're supposed to
reflect the image of Christ.
00:13:20.33\00:13:22.96
And when what we
do goes against that,
00:13:23.00\00:13:25.40
then we may not,
00:13:25.43\00:13:26.77
I know I may not
be still hurting you
00:13:26.80\00:13:28.87
but I'm
destroying the image of God
00:13:28.90\00:13:32.74
which is greater,
more detrimental than,
00:13:32.77\00:13:38.05
you know, some of the
other self destructive things
00:13:38.08\00:13:41.18
that we do.
00:13:41.22\00:13:42.55
And so we have to take a look at
00:13:42.58\00:13:43.92
I'm destroying the image
of God by stepping outside
00:13:43.95\00:13:47.49
of the natural inclination
of the family structure.
00:13:47.52\00:13:51.36
The family is supposed to
be, God made Adam, God made Eve.
00:13:51.39\00:13:55.36
God said, "Be fruitful
and multiply, have children."
00:13:55.40\00:13:58.23
That was the family structure
that was set up before sin.
00:13:58.27\00:14:02.17
So that is the
initial, the prototype of God.
00:14:02.20\00:14:07.41
And so the image of God,
00:14:07.44\00:14:08.94
so then when you add
00:14:08.98\00:14:10.31
and you substitute
out the natural passions
00:14:10.35\00:14:12.68
and replace them
with other structures,
00:14:12.71\00:14:15.18
you are now
distorting the image of God,
00:14:15.22\00:14:18.09
not just between
in our relationship
00:14:18.12\00:14:20.92
and now for children.
00:14:20.96\00:14:23.19
Parents are supposed to be
the first reflection of God
00:14:23.22\00:14:25.59
that children see.
00:14:25.63\00:14:27.36
So when they see
parents of the same sex,
00:14:27.40\00:14:30.67
their first image of
God is an unnatural one
00:14:30.70\00:14:34.07
which continues to pass on
00:14:34.10\00:14:35.90
and break down
the family structures.
00:14:35.94\00:14:37.71
You look at TV now,
00:14:37.74\00:14:39.07
modern family
and all these things.
00:14:39.11\00:14:41.01
Now you cannot watch a TV show
00:14:41.04\00:14:42.78
without some sort of homosexual
parental relationship,
00:14:42.81\00:14:47.35
or relationship involves
00:14:47.38\00:14:48.88
and it's natural,
or if it's unnatural,
00:14:48.92\00:14:51.75
the family is trying to adjust
00:14:51.79\00:14:53.12
and get used to
this new picture.
00:14:53.15\00:14:55.16
Yeah, that's a good point.
00:14:55.19\00:14:56.96
So, you know, as
we're considering this,
00:14:56.99\00:14:59.39
you know, I really
appreciate what you just said.
00:14:59.43\00:15:02.23
Why is it then that or
what's the agenda behind it?
00:15:02.26\00:15:06.57
You know why is it, which
is we were talking about how,
00:15:06.60\00:15:08.47
you know, this is nothing new.
00:15:08.50\00:15:09.84
You know, we've
seen this is the Bibles,
00:15:09.87\00:15:11.91
this was an issue,
this has happened through.
00:15:11.94\00:15:13.54
But now it seems
to be more avert,
00:15:13.58\00:15:15.88
more out there.
00:15:15.91\00:15:17.25
You know, why is it?
00:15:17.28\00:15:18.61
And I wanna ask James
00:15:18.65\00:15:19.98
as, you know, being
a chaplain, you know.
00:15:20.02\00:15:22.35
Why is it that something
00:15:22.38\00:15:23.72
that we're struggling with a lot
00:15:23.75\00:15:25.15
seemingly as young people now?
00:15:25.19\00:15:26.72
Why is it a big
struggle now, you think?
00:15:26.76\00:15:29.49
You, kind of
asked me two questions.
00:15:29.52\00:15:30.86
I'll address the first one.
00:15:30.89\00:15:34.10
I think the
reason why as Christians
00:15:34.13\00:15:36.06
it's as Kim already touched on
00:15:36.10\00:15:38.47
but it's, I
guess, so tabooed, so...
00:15:38.50\00:15:44.71
It's something that...
00:15:44.74\00:15:46.81
You're saying, it's
hard to talk about or...
00:15:46.84\00:15:48.18
Yeah, yeah.
00:15:48.21\00:15:49.54
It's hard to talk about
00:15:49.58\00:15:50.91
is 'cause there
is so many parameters
00:15:50.95\00:15:55.42
put in place to kind of hide it.
00:15:55.45\00:16:00.92
And it kind of
pushed under the rug.
00:16:00.96\00:16:03.56
And we're not really teaching
00:16:03.59\00:16:06.59
about how to
truly reflect that image
00:16:06.63\00:16:10.37
in all of our decisions.
00:16:10.40\00:16:12.23
And I think that on
the university campus,
00:16:12.27\00:16:16.84
you have kids, students who come
00:16:16.87\00:16:20.38
from all different
types of walks of life.
00:16:20.41\00:16:23.14
And something
might be okay for you,
00:16:23.18\00:16:25.71
but it's not okay for me.
00:16:25.75\00:16:27.35
And there's a word that
was used earlier, judging.
00:16:27.38\00:16:31.75
You know, we
can't judge these people
00:16:31.79\00:16:33.12
but thing about us
00:16:33.15\00:16:34.69
as Christians is we can't judge.
00:16:34.72\00:16:38.09
We shouldn't judge,
00:16:38.13\00:16:39.46
but there's a
difference between judging
00:16:39.49\00:16:40.83
and holding someone accountable.
00:16:40.86\00:16:42.20
So I think that we should be
00:16:42.23\00:16:44.23
able to hold
each other accountable
00:16:44.27\00:16:46.60
to if we all have
the same baseline,
00:16:46.63\00:16:49.04
and all have the same standard
00:16:49.07\00:16:51.44
because it's not like my
opinion versus your opinion.
00:16:51.47\00:16:54.31
You know, the verse that
was read earlier, it's clear.
00:16:54.34\00:16:57.71
I mean, you can't
really refute that,
00:16:57.75\00:16:59.55
or you can't really twist that,
00:16:59.58\00:17:00.92
you know, how you wanted to.
00:17:00.95\00:17:02.28
So I think it's
about really embracing
00:17:02.32\00:17:07.96
who you are in God's image
00:17:07.99\00:17:09.56
and wanting to position yourself
00:17:09.59\00:17:11.16
in that agenda.
00:17:11.19\00:17:12.53
And that the laid
gratification which means,
00:17:12.56\00:17:15.70
you know, I may be
struggling with these tendencies
00:17:15.73\00:17:18.40
but I know, ultimately, I
wanna reflect God's image,
00:17:18.43\00:17:21.20
and I need to
overcome these things
00:17:21.24\00:17:24.31
so that I can get to
where God really wants me to be.
00:17:24.34\00:17:26.34
All right, all right.
00:17:26.37\00:17:27.71
I'm gonna have something
pick up on the same part
00:17:27.74\00:17:29.34
which is, you know, also
then why is it so prevalent?
00:17:29.38\00:17:32.08
What is the agenda behind it?
00:17:32.11\00:17:33.45
And then after that,
00:17:33.48\00:17:34.82
we're gonna go to
talking about how to react
00:17:34.85\00:17:36.18
then to those
who are homosexual?
00:17:36.22\00:17:39.12
What is the agenda
behind the media pushing it?
00:17:39.15\00:17:41.36
Is that what you're asking?
00:17:41.39\00:17:42.72
Yeah, and why is it so
such a big prevalent thing now?
00:17:42.76\00:17:44.86
I mean, like Chaplain
Pearson was saying before,
00:17:44.89\00:17:48.26
it's not new.
00:17:48.30\00:17:49.66
It's not like homosexuality
has always been there,
00:17:49.70\00:17:51.97
like you were
saying, in the Bible,
00:17:52.00\00:17:53.34
it's always been there.
00:17:53.37\00:17:54.70
But it was something
that you have to keep quiet
00:17:54.74\00:17:57.87
that I can talk about other sins
00:17:57.91\00:18:00.64
that I'm dealing with,
00:18:00.68\00:18:02.01
but homosexuality,
00:18:02.04\00:18:03.38
you can't, I can't
talk to anybody about that,
00:18:03.41\00:18:05.71
if I'm, because I'll
be stoned, I'll be killed.
00:18:05.75\00:18:09.05
You know, even
today in the islands,
00:18:09.08\00:18:11.69
like you're
homosexual, they will kill you.
00:18:11.72\00:18:14.52
So it's something that
you weren't able to say,
00:18:14.56\00:18:18.03
this is what
I'm struggling with.
00:18:18.06\00:18:19.56
So as a reaction
to the other extreme,
00:18:19.59\00:18:22.96
people are out, just
out all over the place.
00:18:23.00\00:18:26.50
You have to accept it
00:18:26.53\00:18:27.87
because this is
something that's real.
00:18:27.90\00:18:29.70
Yeah. Okay, it's real.
00:18:29.74\00:18:31.27
I won't discount that it's real
00:18:31.31\00:18:33.38
and that it's not necessarily...
00:18:33.41\00:18:35.64
There's a concept
between nature and nurture,
00:18:35.68\00:18:38.88
whether because I was
molested that I'm homosexual
00:18:38.91\00:18:41.48
or is it because
I was born this way?
00:18:41.52\00:18:43.89
And it can be both,
00:18:43.92\00:18:45.49
really because
we were born in sin
00:18:45.52\00:18:47.66
and shaped into iniquity,
00:18:47.69\00:18:49.29
into the iniquity
is the nurture part.
00:18:49.32\00:18:52.36
So it's a reaction
here to both extremes
00:18:52.39\00:18:55.63
and there needs to be a balance.
00:18:55.66\00:18:57.00
Yeah, so it really sounds like
00:18:57.03\00:18:58.37
it's been, it's also probably
00:18:58.40\00:18:59.90
I think the
church's problem too or fault
00:18:59.93\00:19:01.74
because somewhere, I'll say,
00:19:01.77\00:19:04.61
we've had a hard time dealing
with people who have sinned.
00:19:04.64\00:19:06.74
You know, you just kind of
walk where we just to be look,
00:19:06.78\00:19:08.21
look pretty, look nice.
00:19:08.24\00:19:09.58
You know, don't
ruffle the feathers,
00:19:09.61\00:19:10.95
just don't talk
about your issue.
00:19:10.98\00:19:12.31
Okay, you have that trouble.
00:19:12.35\00:19:13.68
Okay, be quiet, you
know, just look good today.
00:19:13.72\00:19:15.58
But we've haven't really tackled
00:19:15.62\00:19:17.32
just being able
to talk about sin,
00:19:17.35\00:19:18.69
you know, and of
course, that's been a big one.
00:19:18.72\00:19:20.12
Okay, of course, I'll
talk about that one, you know.
00:19:20.16\00:19:22.42
So now, how then
now can we change that
00:19:22.46\00:19:25.29
and how as Christians,
00:19:25.33\00:19:26.66
as people in the
church can we now begin to
00:19:26.70\00:19:29.00
or how should we
then react to individuals
00:19:29.03\00:19:31.17
who are struggling
with homosexuality?
00:19:31.20\00:19:33.67
I would say, I would say love.
00:19:33.70\00:19:36.57
Just I mean, that's the answer.
00:19:36.60\00:19:39.07
God, love.
00:19:39.11\00:19:40.44
God is love.
00:19:40.48\00:19:41.81
I mean, I cannot approach
someone who's struggling
00:19:41.84\00:19:45.38
or may not even
realize that it's a sin
00:19:45.41\00:19:47.62
if I don't love them.
00:19:47.65\00:19:49.05
I won't receive
anything you have to say
00:19:49.08\00:19:51.12
if you come at me condemning,
00:19:51.15\00:19:53.09
let me tell you about yourself,
00:19:53.12\00:19:54.59
and I don't even know you.
00:19:54.62\00:19:55.96
So first you have
to love all people
00:19:55.99\00:19:58.23
despite what
they're going through.
00:19:58.26\00:20:00.20
That's what God calls us to
do, that's what throughout John,
00:20:00.23\00:20:03.30
the Gospel of
John, verses like John 3,
00:20:03.33\00:20:05.73
love, brotherly love,
00:20:05.77\00:20:07.10
and brotherly love is
not just... it's agape.
00:20:07.14\00:20:10.37
At the agape, you threw your sin
00:20:10.41\00:20:12.67
even when you don't,
when they receive my love.
00:20:12.71\00:20:15.51
That's where you have to start.
00:20:15.54\00:20:17.08
You know, I
find this challenging
00:20:17.11\00:20:20.72
because as a church, we
want to point out the sins,
00:20:20.75\00:20:24.55
but we don't
want to remedy them.
00:20:24.59\00:20:26.72
And so if the church is
supposed to be a hospital,
00:20:26.76\00:20:28.12
here's the thing.
00:20:28.16\00:20:29.49
We have the alcoholics ward,
we have the fornicator ward,
00:20:29.52\00:20:32.86
we have the divorce ward.
00:20:32.89\00:20:36.36
We don't have a homosexual ward.
00:20:36.40\00:20:38.40
We don't have a
place in our church
00:20:38.43\00:20:41.30
that's ready to
deal with the hurt,
00:20:41.34\00:20:44.44
and the pain,
00:20:44.47\00:20:45.81
and the different issues
00:20:45.84\00:20:47.21
that come with
wrestling with that sin.
00:20:47.24\00:20:49.71
And so we have got to first
00:20:49.74\00:20:52.18
and I specially
think as young people,
00:20:52.21\00:20:54.42
as young adults, as
young pastors, and leaders,
00:20:54.45\00:20:57.62
be the ones that initiates
safe spaces in our churches
00:20:57.65\00:21:01.82
where people can come
00:21:01.86\00:21:03.19
and talk about what
they're dealing with
00:21:03.22\00:21:04.89
and receive not rebuke,
00:21:04.93\00:21:07.96
but love and support.
00:21:08.00\00:21:11.33
And so, you know, it's
not just enough to preach
00:21:11.37\00:21:13.74
at people from the pew,
00:21:13.77\00:21:15.30
we've got to get in there
00:21:15.34\00:21:17.21
and say, "Okay,
how can I help you?
00:21:17.24\00:21:19.24
Can I be an
accountability partner for you?"
00:21:19.27\00:21:21.51
How can we
address some of the things
00:21:21.54\00:21:23.04
that have gone on?
00:21:23.08\00:21:24.81
And so I think we've got
to start creating safe space
00:21:24.85\00:21:27.45
'cause in reality,
00:21:27.48\00:21:29.15
our church may not necessarily
be ready to deal with
00:21:29.18\00:21:32.55
the stuff that
they want to talk about.
00:21:32.59\00:21:36.16
Okay.
00:21:36.19\00:21:37.53
To answer, you know,
your question is to why,
00:21:37.56\00:21:40.46
you know, homosexuality
in the media is so prevalent,
00:21:40.50\00:21:42.86
I believe it,
00:21:42.90\00:21:44.23
it's because the enemy
is trying to make a mockery
00:21:44.27\00:21:47.04
of something so
beautiful that God created.
00:21:47.07\00:21:48.60
Wow.
00:21:48.64\00:21:49.97
You know, the relationship
between man and woman,
00:21:50.01\00:21:51.94
and everything he does,
00:21:51.97\00:21:53.31
he doesn't wanna
just to attack us,
00:21:53.34\00:21:54.68
he wants to
make a mockery of it.
00:21:54.71\00:21:56.61
And so I believe
00:21:56.64\00:21:57.98
that there are
people in the industry
00:21:58.01\00:21:59.58
that are possessed,
00:21:59.61\00:22:00.95
that are literally living
their lives serving Satan,
00:22:00.98\00:22:04.02
you know, just to make it plain.
00:22:04.05\00:22:05.89
You know, they're
not seeking the kingdom.
00:22:05.92\00:22:07.39
And if we look at
some of the programs,
00:22:07.42\00:22:09.32
some of the TV shows,
00:22:09.36\00:22:10.69
some of the
name of these movies,
00:22:10.73\00:22:12.06
like this is so worldly.
00:22:12.09\00:22:13.43
Yeah.
00:22:13.46\00:22:14.80
That's nothing to do
with God and it's clear.
00:22:14.83\00:22:16.16
And so let's just
call it for what it is.
00:22:16.20\00:22:17.53
I mean, we're
battling demons here, right?
00:22:17.57\00:22:19.53
They're not flesh and blood.
00:22:19.57\00:22:20.94
And so I believe
that they had these shows
00:22:20.97\00:22:23.71
and then they make
society embrace it.
00:22:23.74\00:22:26.47
I was in the airport
and I was on the phone
00:22:26.51\00:22:27.98
with the friend of mine,
00:22:28.01\00:22:29.34
and he said to call
me, and I said a joke.
00:22:29.38\00:22:31.28
And I've kind of
felt bad for saying that
00:22:31.31\00:22:32.75
but then the people
around me felt really bad.
00:22:32.78\00:22:34.98
I was like, oh my
gosh, that's so gay.
00:22:35.02\00:22:37.05
And just like the whole...
00:22:37.09\00:22:38.42
And I don't have
any of this taste.
00:22:38.45\00:22:40.36
I got love for homosexuals
like I'm praying for them,
00:22:40.39\00:22:42.66
I sin like they sin.
00:22:42.69\00:22:44.03
But I made the comment
00:22:44.06\00:22:45.39
and you know the whole airport
stopped and looked at me.
00:22:45.43\00:22:47.53
And they were
about to like crucify me.
00:22:47.56\00:22:49.66
And I was like,
wow, the society nowadays
00:22:49.70\00:22:52.20
has just painted
this picture that says,
00:22:52.23\00:22:54.54
"You can't touch it,
you better not say anything.
00:22:54.57\00:22:56.97
Don't discuss it.
00:22:57.01\00:22:58.34
And I really
believe, Chaplain Pearson,
00:22:58.37\00:22:59.74
that our
churches are not equipped
00:22:59.77\00:23:01.94
nowadays to even
handle something like this.
00:23:01.98\00:23:03.58
And so that thing,
00:23:03.61\00:23:04.95
that's why shows like
Pure Choices is a great outlet
00:23:04.98\00:23:07.78
and a great place for us
00:23:07.82\00:23:09.15
to build some more
dialog about this situation.
00:23:09.18\00:23:10.95
Yeah, and we have...
00:23:10.99\00:23:12.32
and as the
church today, you know,
00:23:12.35\00:23:13.69
being a part of
that church, you know,
00:23:13.72\00:23:15.06
we're talking
really about ourselves
00:23:15.09\00:23:16.42
when we say the church.
00:23:16.46\00:23:17.79
You know, we have to be the ones
00:23:17.83\00:23:19.16
that continue this conversation,
00:23:19.19\00:23:20.53
not just, and not only
just talking about homosexuality
00:23:20.56\00:23:25.87
but and just the whole subject
of pure choices in general.
00:23:25.90\00:23:29.20
You know, another
thing now that we like to see
00:23:29.24\00:23:31.77
is pure choices sit downs
like this to happen in churches,
00:23:31.81\00:23:35.54
you know, across, you
know, all, everywhere,
00:23:35.58\00:23:37.98
just to have these and
many of these conversations,
00:23:38.01\00:23:40.12
I'm talking about
these type of things.
00:23:40.15\00:23:41.48
And I want to
ask another question.
00:23:41.52\00:23:42.95
It may, I don't know,
00:23:42.98\00:23:44.32
how you're gonna
react to this question
00:23:44.35\00:23:45.69
but do you think that
homosexuality in the church
00:23:45.72\00:23:48.82
is a bigger problem than
heterosexual promiscuity?
00:23:48.86\00:23:52.93
No, no, not at all like it's...
00:23:52.96\00:23:58.17
Homosexuality is
a dominant topic,
00:23:58.20\00:24:01.00
definitely by
far, it's more dominant
00:24:01.04\00:24:02.47
as far as the
topic and the light
00:24:02.50\00:24:05.54
that's been shown on it.
00:24:05.57\00:24:06.91
But as far as practice,
00:24:06.94\00:24:09.11
there's more
heterosexual fornication
00:24:09.14\00:24:11.61
than there is
homosexual fornication
00:24:11.65\00:24:13.52
that's going on.
00:24:13.55\00:24:14.88
And we, yeah, that's it.
00:24:14.92\00:24:17.65
I mean, that
explains... I don't know if I...
00:24:17.69\00:24:21.42
I don't know if
I agree with that.
00:24:21.46\00:24:23.09
I believe the sexuality
is a problem in our church.
00:24:23.12\00:24:25.46
Okay.
00:24:25.49\00:24:26.83
And so sexuality,
especially with the images
00:24:26.86\00:24:29.40
that we're being bombarded with,
00:24:29.43\00:24:30.77
so it's a lot of
heterosexual fornication
00:24:30.80\00:24:33.94
and things going on.
00:24:33.97\00:24:35.54
But is this bisexuality?
00:24:35.57\00:24:37.81
I'm having heterosexual
interactions with you
00:24:37.84\00:24:40.58
but homosexual
thoughts about her.
00:24:40.61\00:24:42.11
Okay.
00:24:42.14\00:24:43.48
You know, and so I think
00:24:43.51\00:24:44.85
when you tie in all
these different dynamics,
00:24:44.88\00:24:46.72
it's not just
whether you're straight,
00:24:46.75\00:24:48.88
whether you're homosexual.
00:24:48.92\00:24:50.25
The sexuality
period is a problem
00:24:50.29\00:24:53.05
and the way a lot
of our young people
00:24:53.09\00:24:54.79
in the church
are dealing with this
00:24:54.82\00:24:56.16
is by being bisexual.
00:24:56.19\00:24:57.53
Okay.
00:24:57.56\00:24:58.89
Or like you said about
the friend getting out there
00:24:58.93\00:25:01.30
and dating all of these
other people and saying,
00:25:01.33\00:25:03.53
I'm gonna try to fix
myself out of that mentality
00:25:03.57\00:25:06.30
by having sex with
lots of other people,
00:25:06.33\00:25:08.10
but I'm still
feeling some type of way.
00:25:08.14\00:25:10.44
And so I think that
it's not necessarily
00:25:10.47\00:25:12.34
who's doing what more,
00:25:12.37\00:25:13.74
but the fact
that there's a issue
00:25:13.78\00:25:15.11
with homosexuality in our church
00:25:15.14\00:25:17.38
that we have to start addressing
00:25:17.41\00:25:18.98
from a standpoint that says,
00:25:19.01\00:25:20.42
we're gonna call
sin by its right name,
00:25:20.45\00:25:22.62
we're gonna address it,
but we're gonna address it
00:25:22.65\00:25:24.95
through love, relationship
and through safe spaces.
00:25:24.99\00:25:28.26
Okay.
00:25:28.29\00:25:31.19
And you can have
this on if you like
00:25:31.23\00:25:32.56
but I wanna ask you all towards,
00:25:32.59\00:25:33.93
we're getting to the
end of our program now,
00:25:33.96\00:25:35.33
what would you say to someone
who's struggling with this?
00:25:35.36\00:25:38.30
What would you say to
someone who's struggling
00:25:38.33\00:25:39.67
with any type of
making a pure choice whatever,
00:25:39.70\00:25:42.07
what would you say to them?
00:25:42.10\00:25:43.44
And, James, you want
to comment if you want to.
00:25:43.47\00:25:44.81
You know, don't give up.
00:25:44.84\00:25:47.08
Like flat out,
like don't give up.
00:25:47.11\00:25:48.68
I know it seems hard,
I know it seems heavy.
00:25:48.71\00:25:51.48
I know it's like
that thorn in the side,
00:25:51.51\00:25:53.58
but we have to let
people know not to give up.
00:25:53.62\00:25:57.09
And that if you
continue to seek God,
00:25:57.12\00:25:59.32
when you starve the
flesh, and feed the spirit,
00:25:59.35\00:26:01.56
things will change.
00:26:01.59\00:26:02.92
But I know of people who
are in homosexual relationships
00:26:02.96\00:26:06.70
and have a homosexual crew
00:26:06.73\00:26:08.83
but say that they wanna change.
00:26:08.86\00:26:10.53
And if I'm an
alcoholic and I'm hanging out
00:26:10.57\00:26:13.07
with other
alcoholics at the bar,
00:26:13.10\00:26:14.97
it's gonna be
hard for me to change.
00:26:15.00\00:26:16.54
Sometimes we need to
get to a place of solitude.
00:26:16.57\00:26:18.74
You know, when I ask
and I challenge people,
00:26:18.77\00:26:20.58
like how bad you wanna change?
00:26:20.61\00:26:22.41
You can pray,
pray, pray all day,
00:26:22.44\00:26:23.78
are you wanting to fast.
00:26:23.81\00:26:25.15
Yeah.
00:26:25.18\00:26:26.51
The Bible says that
only certain powers come
00:26:26.55\00:26:27.88
from prayer and fasting.
00:26:27.92\00:26:29.25
And I believe that we
all have specific demons
00:26:29.28\00:26:30.62
that we're fighting.
00:26:30.65\00:26:31.99
We got to get to the point
00:26:32.02\00:26:33.36
where we start
getting real serious
00:26:33.39\00:26:34.72
and real thorough
about this battle.
00:26:34.76\00:26:36.09
And another thing I
was gonna say in closing,
00:26:36.12\00:26:37.46
I believe that
we try to put labels
00:26:37.49\00:26:39.33
in different tiers of
sin in the church, right?
00:26:39.36\00:26:42.13
And so I'm looking at,
00:26:42.16\00:26:43.50
for sisters having sex
constantly with her boyfriend,
00:26:43.53\00:26:46.53
and she knows it's wrong.
00:26:46.57\00:26:47.90
In God's eyes, that's
just as equal to somebody
00:26:47.94\00:26:49.94
that's battling or
dealing with homosexuality.
00:26:49.97\00:26:51.71
Exactly. Okay, real
quick, someone else?
00:26:51.74\00:26:53.68
I think the
Word of God is clear.
00:26:53.71\00:26:55.94
And we have to highlight things
in our hearts like David said,
00:26:55.98\00:26:58.18
that we might
not sin against God.
00:26:58.21\00:27:00.82
And just fortifying
our minds with the word
00:27:00.85\00:27:03.05
and having that be
our standard, our middle,
00:27:03.08\00:27:07.99
you know, not swing to
the left or to the right.
00:27:08.02\00:27:10.63
And also just, you
know, where the Bible declares
00:27:10.66\00:27:13.40
that we are
more than conquerors.
00:27:13.43\00:27:14.76
Yeah. More than.
00:27:14.80\00:27:16.13
So exactly, I mean, I
love history and I love to,
00:27:16.16\00:27:19.17
you know, Charlemagne and
King Henry, and the faith,
00:27:19.20\00:27:22.67
and Louise XIII, and all
these but they are conquerors
00:27:22.70\00:27:27.01
but at one point,
they got conquered.
00:27:27.04\00:27:28.94
So Christ says that
we're more than conquerors.
00:27:28.98\00:27:30.65
We're gonna live a
life of continual victory...
00:27:30.68\00:27:32.45
Amen.
00:27:32.48\00:27:33.82
And as well as Jude 24,
00:27:33.85\00:27:35.18
that He's able to
keep us from falling so.
00:27:35.22\00:27:36.55
Amen, amen. Well,
that's where we're ending.
00:27:36.58\00:27:37.92
And the Bible says, my brothers,
00:27:37.95\00:27:39.29
if one of you should
wander from the truth
00:27:39.32\00:27:40.92
and someone should
bring him back, remember this,
00:27:40.96\00:27:43.02
whoever turns to sinner
from the error of his way
00:27:43.06\00:27:46.13
will save him from death
00:27:46.16\00:27:47.50
and cover over a
multitude of sin.
00:27:47.53\00:27:49.73
We have a duty to
love and bring people,
00:27:49.76\00:27:51.77
protect them, bring them back
to what God is calling them.
00:27:51.80\00:27:53.77
So God bless.
00:27:53.80\00:27:55.14