The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Hi, I'm Mike Carducci
with Coming Out Ministries,
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your host today on Pure Choices.
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I have an incredible
program ready for you today.
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I've invited my sister to come
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all the way from
the Keys in Florida
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to come and be my guest today.
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Hi, Laura. Hi, Mike.
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And welcome, welcome. Thank you.
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So this is the, this
is almost too personal.
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I feel that there's
way too much distance
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between us Laura so
if you'll excuse me,
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I'm gonna go and
sit by my sister.
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Much better, yeah.
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And, so Laura, the
reason why I've invited you here
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today is on, you know,
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the Lord has really used
you in a very miraculous way.
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And I just want to kind of
go through some of the stages
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that we've gone
through in our relationship.
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You know, one of the things
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that I remember
hearing is the fact that,
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you know, God puts
different personalities
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in every family to
give us opportunities
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to learn how to deal
with different personalities.
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And obviously you
and I are, you know,
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we look very similar
but yet in many ways,
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we're worlds apart in
our, in the way our makeup is,
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and even though we had
very much the same history
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and definitely, you
know, share the same parents,
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I think that God used
you in a very miraculous way
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to help call me out of
the homosexual lifestyle.
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And I didn't even realize
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the impact of how
much I appreciated
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your steadfastness,
and your faithfulness.
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And even in your humanity,
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and I'm sure that
there were moments
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when you were discouraged
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but, but I
believe that at the time
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that I've been in that
lifestyle for over 20 years,
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addicted to sex
and on and out of in
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and out of relationships.
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I believe that I was so sin sick
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that I believed that I
had lost any opportunity
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to listen to the Holy Spirit.
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But I believe that
by your faithful prayers
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and also the prayers of
others that God heard that,
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and I believe that He
said, "I can still reach Mike.
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I still, there's
still some hope for Mike,
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even though he's gone so
far into this lifestyle".
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And to me,
that's the manifestation
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of why I've asked you to
be a part of this program.
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Thank you. Yes, yes.
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So, Laura, let's start off,
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you know, with
some of the early years.
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I was seven years old,
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I just gotten
my two front teeth.
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And we were
running in the backyard.
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I was it and I went to tag her
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and for some
reason just like a rabbit
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she just stopped short
and I ran right into her back
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and I knocked my
two front teeth out
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and they were brand
new I just gotten them.
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And so my
mother just pushed them
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right up into my mouth.
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They were hanging by a root
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and anyway I
still have them today
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so there's so many different...
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Blamed forever.
That's right, that's right.
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It was never my fault. No.
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And so Laura and I
are the middle children
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of basically four, four kids.
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I'm the only male in my
family. We have an older sister.
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I have an older sister.
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And then Laura's under me,
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and then we have
a younger sister.
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And, you know, a
lot of times, Laura,
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we were kind of lumped together
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because we seemed to be
more of the level-headed ones.
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And you probably took
the rides in that as well.
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And then our other
sisters, I remember,
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we went to a theme park one time
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and we had sat down with the map
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and we decided
everywhere we were gonna go,
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and we used bowl of our
tickets on that same day.
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And our other two
sisters went together
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and they got so upset
and angry at each other.
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They lost each
other, but we were,
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we were well-planned out
and we had it all organized.
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In the second day, we
actually got extra tickets
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because we'd used all,
all of our tickets that day.
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Right, I think we
took from Barb and Cathay.
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That's right, that's
right. We took theirs.
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So, Laura, I just wanna give you
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an opportunity for
knowing me all those years,
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especially in other programs
we've talked about, you know,
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cross-dressing that I was into,
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we played with
dolls a lot of times.
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You know, I
would, we would do the...
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what you call it?
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The, the things where we had,
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we would dress up
and that kind of stuff.
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And you're a good sport
but you weren't even into it
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necessarily as much as I was.
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No, no.
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But when you
found out I was gay,
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what went through your mind?
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I guess at first
I was surprised that
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I hadn't ever realized.
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My husband had questioned
whether you were or not?
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And I said, "No.
Why would you ask that?"
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And he just kind of dropped it.
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And I think
everyone in the family knew
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before I did.
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We were sitting
at grandma's table
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and someone made the comment.
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Well, that's just the difference
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between apples and oranges.
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For some reason that
clued me in, and I said,
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"Is Michael gay?"
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And then everyone
around the table just going,
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"Oh, she didn't know?"
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And I was hurt.
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I was hurt that
you didn't feel like
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you could trust me with that.
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Yeah, it's interesting, because
I was listening to the enemy.
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And one of the things
when I had left the church,
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you know, I wasn't the only one
of our siblings that left also,
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but you were the only one
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that stayed in
church the whole time.
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And I believe that with
the thought of telling you,
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came with it also
conviction about, you know,
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how off-track my life
had become compared to
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how it professed to be
earlier, and also what my goals
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and objectives were
in my own spiritual walk
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with Jesus Christ.
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And so at 20 years old,
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when I walked
out of church culture
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and had washed my hands off
God totally and sister said,
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you know, this isn't
working, I'm out of here.
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I believe that the reason
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that I didn't tell
you all those years,
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Laura, was because I really knew
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that there was
conviction in that.
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And because you
were still holding
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the banner of Jesus Christ
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and walking the walk as
difficult and as personal
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that's had may have
been for you, to me,
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it was an open
rebuke, if you would,
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even just the
way that you lived.
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And I think that it,
that that was also the,
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the wooing of the Holy
Spirit, letting me know that
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that things weren't right.
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And so when you
called me that day,
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how easy was it to ask
me if I was gay or not?
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You know, Mike, I'm
sorry. I don't remember that.
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Oh, I do. Well, let me help you.
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So on that day that you called,
I remember being on a sofa
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and I was just
hanging out on the sofa.
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And I remember, you said,
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"Can I ask you
something personal?"
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And by then I knew
what the question was.
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And I remember
consciously thinking to myself,
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I'm not gonna make this easy.
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And you said, "Well, it has
to do with your attractions",
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and I go, "What do you mean?"
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And she goes
"Well, you know, you know,
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about your
attractions, what you're,
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you know, attracted to",
and I go, "What is that?"
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And eventually,
you got around to it
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and as unbearably uncomfortable
as it may have been for you,
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I felt satisfied
that I made you say it
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because I
certainly didn't want to have
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to admit it to you I believe.
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Wow.
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And so you finally told,
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you know, said the
word and I agreed with you.
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And so I believe that
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there was
definitely some distance there.
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And I believe that
that's part of the persecution
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that we as Christians
endure because God says,
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"Are you gonna
follow me completely?"
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And part of that is representing
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what truth is and
holding up with truth is.
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And so, Laura, there
was no doubt in my mind
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that you loved me.
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There was no
doubt in my mind that
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that you would be there
for me if I ever needed you.
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Good.
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But the distance that started
really growing was the fact
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that I knew that, that
we weren't equally yoked
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and that my life was a
constant rebuke to the life
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that you were living.
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Because I knew where that
where I had been at one time
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when I was where you were at,
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and so that I think
bridged the gap of that.
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Can you tell the, the
listeners a little bit about
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how I treated you
during those 20 years?
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Well, it helped
to be in Colorado.
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I was in Colorado
and you were in Florida.
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And I had two young kids.
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And I didn't know
all that you were doing.
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In fact, I knew a very little.
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I...this last year,
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listening to your
testimonies here and there
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and, and each time I hear
it, I hear something different.
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And I just my
heartbreaks for the ugliness
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you had to go through.
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And I'm thankful that
I didn't know everything
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you're going
through because I think
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I would have really had
a hard time having peace
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that you were safe
or, or that, you know,
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God was gonna be
able to reach you.
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I had no idea of the depth that
the homosexual life can go to.
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Okay.
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And I remember that, you know,
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there were, there were few times
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when you just
out-and-out told me
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I was crazy, or fanatic,
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or I don't know the exact word,
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but basically what,
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when you can't be
told anything like,
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I can't think of that word.
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What would that
word be? Obstinate.
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Stuck in the mud, or
obstinate or, or, you know,
00:09:26.33\00:09:30.20
you thought I was
unrealistic about life
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and probably very unrealistic
about what your life was like.
00:09:32.60\00:09:37.41
But there were a
couple times you attacked me
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in front of the children
and that, that that was hard.
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That was really hard.
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In fact, one time
we were in the car.
00:09:44.91\00:09:47.15
And you said the
one word that you knew
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would really, really upset me
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with my children
in the back seat.
00:09:52.69\00:09:54.92
And I didn't respond.
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And we were, we were mad.
We were having an argument.
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And about half an
hour later we made up.
00:10:00.33\00:10:03.20
And you said, you
know, I was really surprised
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when you didn't
react to that word
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I said, and I said, "What word?"
00:10:07.30\00:10:08.84
And you told me that word.
00:10:08.87\00:10:10.31
It was like I
didn't even hear that word
00:10:10.34\00:10:13.07
and then I got
really angry on you
00:10:13.11\00:10:16.01
because my
children were in the car,
00:10:16.04\00:10:17.68
and I...that was one word
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I definitely
didn't want them to hear.
00:10:20.12\00:10:21.92
But I had to be guarded
around you, I loved you,
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and, and wanted the
kids to know their uncle.
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And thought of you
as a wonderful person
00:10:27.62\00:10:30.33
to get to know but I couldn't
allow the freedom for them
00:10:30.36\00:10:36.43
to get to know you real well
00:10:36.46\00:10:37.93
because I couldn't trust
you to be respectful of me
00:10:37.97\00:10:41.14
or the children.
00:10:41.17\00:10:42.50
Sure. That was hard.
00:10:42.54\00:10:43.87
You know, setting up
safeguards, of course,
00:10:43.91\00:10:45.41
to protect your
children at all costs.
00:10:45.44\00:10:47.18
I totally understand
and support you in that.
00:10:47.21\00:10:50.35
I know that my
view of Christianity had
00:10:50.38\00:10:53.58
totally changed in the light
of the path that I was walking.
00:10:53.62\00:10:57.05
I had to get to an
understanding that,
00:10:57.09\00:10:59.65
that
Christianity was for losers,
00:10:59.69\00:11:02.22
you know, and for
people who weren't enlightened.
00:11:02.26\00:11:04.26
You know, I was listening
to what the world was saying.
00:11:04.29\00:11:06.96
You know, and I had
totally loosened up the reins
00:11:07.00\00:11:09.43
of what morality had taught me.
00:11:09.46\00:11:12.07
And in that, I felt
that you were the one
00:11:12.10\00:11:14.40
that was in ignorance.
00:11:14.44\00:11:15.80
I thought that you
were the one that was weak.
00:11:15.84\00:11:17.44
I thought you were the one
00:11:17.47\00:11:19.37
that really didn't
have it all together
00:11:19.41\00:11:21.31
or enough information
to really make a decision.
00:11:21.34\00:11:24.01
I remember, almost feeling like
it was my job to educate you
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about what life
was really about.
00:11:28.82\00:11:31.49
And of course,
that would come off
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absolutely condescending
00:11:33.79\00:11:35.32
and I know that I
treated you that way.
00:11:35.36\00:11:38.63
I remember, well,
one of the questions
00:11:38.66\00:11:40.63
I want to ask you is,
00:11:40.66\00:11:42.00
so what was your opinion
of homosexuality at the time,
00:11:42.03\00:11:45.90
when you found
out that I was gay?
00:11:45.93\00:11:48.14
Before, before
you personally? Yes.
00:11:48.17\00:11:51.51
I was worried that
you had lost salvation.
00:11:51.54\00:11:55.01
And, I mean, as
the years went by,
00:11:55.04\00:11:58.11
I get more worried that
God couldn't reach you anymore.
00:11:58.15\00:12:01.75
Ah-ah. That was hard.
00:12:01.78\00:12:03.62
So what was your response
then to your understanding,
00:12:03.65\00:12:07.22
now where did you
get this understanding?
00:12:07.26\00:12:10.09
For what? I knew
about homosexuality?
00:12:10.13\00:12:11.79
Yes.
00:12:11.83\00:12:15.43
All I knew basically was that
men were having sex with men.
00:12:15.46\00:12:20.74
And I couldn't
even try to figure out
00:12:20.77\00:12:22.80
what that was all about
00:12:22.84\00:12:24.17
'cause I just
couldn't deal with that.
00:12:24.21\00:12:25.54
Right. But I knew.
00:12:25.57\00:12:30.25
What I mean is,
where did you come up
00:12:30.28\00:12:32.35
with your understanding that
00:12:32.38\00:12:33.72
that homosexuals
would lose salvation?
00:12:33.75\00:12:36.69
There's a verse in
the Bible that talks about
00:12:36.72\00:12:40.42
fornicators and adulterers,
00:12:40.46\00:12:42.12
and you were
definitely doing that because
00:12:42.16\00:12:43.96
you weren't in a
married relationship either.
00:12:43.99\00:12:47.20
But then there's also
a verse, it talks about,
00:12:47.23\00:12:50.60
it actually says, homosexuals.
00:12:50.63\00:12:53.17
I think, it's 1
Timothy some or, but I...
00:12:53.20\00:12:56.47
that was my understanding.
00:12:56.50\00:12:57.84
So from your Bible studies
is where you came up with
00:12:57.87\00:13:01.11
the understanding
that, that homosexuals
00:13:01.14\00:13:03.35
would not inherit
the kingdom, right?
00:13:03.38\00:13:05.21
Right. Okay.
00:13:05.25\00:13:06.58
So that's what I'm
trying to establish there.
00:13:06.61\00:13:07.95
Because again when I
ended up giving my heart
00:13:07.98\00:13:10.52
back to the Lord, you
know, imagine my shock
00:13:10.55\00:13:12.59
as I understood
that that those verses
00:13:12.62\00:13:15.36
also had that same
response for me is that
00:13:15.39\00:13:17.49
I, I recognized
that by that behavior
00:13:17.53\00:13:19.66
I was also losing
the kingdom from myself.
00:13:19.69\00:13:22.16
So, Laura, what
did you decide to do
00:13:22.20\00:13:23.70
when you found out that
my salvation was at risk?
00:13:23.73\00:13:27.24
Only thing I could
do is pray for you.
00:13:27.27\00:13:29.20
Okay. So how
did that come about?
00:13:29.24\00:13:32.31
I've always
prayed for my family,
00:13:32.34\00:13:35.14
because I might not
have been homosexual
00:13:35.18\00:13:37.88
but I still had problems.
00:13:37.91\00:13:39.61
And we all have
had our problems.
00:13:39.65\00:13:41.48
And I want all of us to
be in the kingdom together.
00:13:41.52\00:13:45.39
Right. So I
didn't understand a lot.
00:13:45.42\00:13:48.39
And I wasn't
around. I was in Colorado.
00:13:48.42\00:13:51.99
But there, you know, I
could pray, I could pray.
00:13:52.03\00:13:55.06
But there were times just
like just to get down again
00:13:55.10\00:13:59.23
and to pray again
for you without seeing
00:13:59.27\00:14:02.44
any kind of change,
00:14:02.47\00:14:03.81
or any kind of
inkling of a desire, you know,
00:14:03.84\00:14:07.28
to know God on any level.
00:14:07.31\00:14:10.78
Sometimes all I
could do was pray for Cathy
00:14:10.81\00:14:13.45
to pray for you.
00:14:13.48\00:14:15.38
Now Cathy is our older sister
and at the time that Laura
00:14:15.42\00:14:19.95
and Cathy were praying
for me, I was in Florida,
00:14:19.99\00:14:22.16
Laura is in Colorado,
00:14:22.19\00:14:23.66
our other sister
is in Florida also,
00:14:23.69\00:14:26.09
and my sister worked for
me, not Laura, but Cathy.
00:14:26.13\00:14:29.56
And so every day, you
know, working as a hairdresser,
00:14:29.60\00:14:32.13
and, you know, I was
working in a very upscale place
00:14:32.17\00:14:34.94
and so my sister was
my shampoo assistant.
00:14:34.97\00:14:37.37
And she'd sweep my hair.
00:14:37.41\00:14:38.74
And she scheduled my
clients and, you know,
00:14:38.77\00:14:40.74
she was incredible.
00:14:40.78\00:14:42.11
And we worked
side-by-side together
00:14:42.14\00:14:43.48
as a matter of fact
there were other homosexuals
00:14:43.51\00:14:44.91
that I worked with.
00:14:44.95\00:14:46.28
I had clients
that were homosexual
00:14:46.31\00:14:47.72
and I had a ton of
clients that were heterosexual
00:14:47.75\00:14:50.65
that totally
accepted my gay lifestyle.
00:14:50.69\00:14:52.95
I thought I had
the world by the tail.
00:14:52.99\00:14:55.09
I had a boyfriend
with, with big arms,
00:14:55.12\00:14:57.13
big blue eyes, and a
big convertible Mercedes.
00:14:57.16\00:15:00.00
I thought I hit pay dirt.
00:15:00.03\00:15:01.36
I thought that I
had become the ultimate
00:15:01.40\00:15:04.47
in what gay
success, you know, should be.
00:15:04.50\00:15:07.87
And so here my
sister who's working with me
00:15:07.90\00:15:09.84
side-by-side is
praying with me in tandem
00:15:09.87\00:15:12.21
with my sister in Colorado.
00:15:12.24\00:15:14.18
So what was incredible
is Laura had gone through
00:15:14.21\00:15:16.54
a lot of emotional
issues within her own life.
00:15:16.58\00:15:20.32
And her husband had
left her with two children.
00:15:20.35\00:15:23.69
And he had gone off.
00:15:23.72\00:15:25.05
He had an internet
affair with an old girlfriend.
00:15:25.09\00:15:27.79
And during that
time, you know, I wasn't,
00:15:27.82\00:15:32.59
I wasn't out of touch with
what you were going through.
00:15:32.63\00:15:35.16
But I really thought that
she got rid of some deadweight.
00:15:35.20\00:15:37.63
I was so happy to see him gone,
00:15:37.67\00:15:39.97
and then all of a
sudden what happened, Laura,
00:15:40.00\00:15:41.40
is everything got
pulled out from underneath you.
00:15:41.44\00:15:44.74
And what happened
is you recognized that
00:15:44.77\00:15:46.37
you needed God in
a much deeper way,
00:15:46.41\00:15:48.34
and what happened is
I started to see this
00:15:48.38\00:15:50.41
transformation in your life.
00:15:50.45\00:15:52.31
And I saw you
become lovely again.
00:15:52.35\00:15:55.22
I saw more
confidence, I saw a power
00:15:55.25\00:15:58.05
and a strength I
hadn't seen in years.
00:15:58.09\00:16:00.06
I saw this beautiful
woman emerging again from
00:16:00.09\00:16:02.99
all of the
insecurity from everything
00:16:03.02\00:16:05.19
that you were battling with,
00:16:05.23\00:16:06.56
you know, before
your husband had left.
00:16:06.59\00:16:08.26
And I thought "Great,
she's got it together now.
00:16:08.30\00:16:10.50
She's rid of the deadweight,"
and then all of a sudden
00:16:10.53\00:16:12.43
you called me one day and said,
00:16:12.47\00:16:14.14
"Bob and I are
getting married again."
00:16:14.17\00:16:16.47
Do you even
remember what I said to you?
00:16:16.50\00:16:17.84
'Cause I
remember what I said. No.
00:16:17.87\00:16:19.37
I said, "You'd be better
off with an axe murderer."
00:16:19.41\00:16:21.51
I go, "You know
all about this guy."
00:16:21.54\00:16:23.68
I go, "He's gonna do
it to you again" you know,
00:16:23.71\00:16:26.21
"if you let him back in".
00:16:26.25\00:16:27.58
And, you know, some
reason you still invited me
00:16:27.62\00:16:31.12
to come to the wedding.
00:16:31.15\00:16:32.75
And I wanna apologize again
00:16:32.79\00:16:35.66
for all the
condescending comments
00:16:35.69\00:16:38.39
and I hope that
you can forgive me
00:16:38.43\00:16:40.26
because again, the
influence that I was under.
00:16:40.30\00:16:43.77
It wasn't who, it wasn't
how I should've treated you.
00:16:43.80\00:16:48.50
And it wasn't, it wasn't...
00:16:48.54\00:16:50.61
it was my decision
to say those things
00:16:50.64\00:16:53.11
but the influence
totally wasn't in a, in a,
00:16:53.14\00:16:56.71
in a god-loving or
god-fearing situation.
00:16:56.75\00:16:58.88
And I hope that you've been
able to work that past for me.
00:16:58.91\00:17:01.58
Of course, of course,
that was few years ago.
00:17:01.62\00:17:03.25
All right, so I
go to the wedding.
00:17:03.28\00:17:04.62
And hotshot Mike here I
am, sexual addict and I had,
00:17:04.65\00:17:08.36
I had got my hotel room.
00:17:08.39\00:17:10.43
I got a car. I was ready.
00:17:10.46\00:17:11.79
I was gonna go
out on my boyfriend.
00:17:11.83\00:17:13.46
And I was gonna go
out to the bars at night
00:17:13.50\00:17:15.83
and get laid the
day before the wedding.
00:17:15.86\00:17:18.33
So on Sabbath, I'm in
church, and you asked me
00:17:18.37\00:17:20.47
to take pictures
of Bob's baptism.
00:17:20.50\00:17:22.04
And I don't know why I felt like
00:17:22.07\00:17:23.51
throwing the
camera in the water,
00:17:23.54\00:17:24.87
personally, but I sat
there and in comes your husband,
00:17:24.91\00:17:28.38
in comes Bob, and he
comes into the water,
00:17:28.41\00:17:31.65
and he comes
forward, and I'm thinking,
00:17:31.68\00:17:33.52
"What's he doing?
00:17:33.55\00:17:34.88
What's that jerk doing?"
00:17:34.92\00:17:36.25
And he came forward
00:17:36.28\00:17:37.62
and he picked up the microphone,
00:17:37.65\00:17:38.99
and he started
to confess his sins,
00:17:39.02\00:17:41.76
right there in
front of the church
00:17:41.79\00:17:43.22
that he had left.
00:17:43.26\00:17:44.59
And he started to
confess what he'd done.
00:17:44.63\00:17:46.73
He asked for their
forgiveness. And I was in shock.
00:17:46.76\00:17:50.37
I knew that wasn't, I knew
that wasn't my brother-in-law
00:17:50.40\00:17:53.30
that I'd known
for 12 years before.
00:17:53.34\00:17:55.24
And then he asked not
only for them to forgive him
00:17:55.27\00:17:57.97
but he also said, "I want to
make it right with God today,
00:17:58.01\00:18:02.31
so I can make it
right to Laura tomorrow".
00:18:02.34\00:18:05.05
I was sitting
there in church culture,
00:18:05.08\00:18:07.15
one of the rare times,
00:18:07.18\00:18:08.52
and tears are
streaming down my face.
00:18:08.55\00:18:10.52
I was actually in the
presence of the Holy Spirit.
00:18:10.55\00:18:14.16
And all those years
Lord of your praying
00:18:14.19\00:18:17.26
and my family
members praying for me,
00:18:17.29\00:18:18.83
this was the moment
00:18:18.86\00:18:20.20
when the Holy
Spirit said, "It's time.
00:18:20.23\00:18:22.40
It's time."
00:18:22.43\00:18:23.77
And you know what?
00:18:23.80\00:18:25.13
I was forever
changed from that moment.
00:18:25.17\00:18:26.74
It was a process that night
I went back to my hotel room.
00:18:26.77\00:18:30.71
I couldn't take my shower,
I couldn't go out to the bars,
00:18:30.74\00:18:32.84
I couldn't watch TV,
I couldn't go to sleep.
00:18:32.87\00:18:35.08
I was like Jacob wrestling
with Jesus Christ in that room
00:18:35.11\00:18:38.31
that whole night.
00:18:38.35\00:18:39.68
I was totally and
uncontrollably disturbed
00:18:39.71\00:18:42.25
by what I had
experienced that day.
00:18:42.28\00:18:44.69
And the next day
after the wedding
00:18:44.72\00:18:46.69
when I left and went back home,
00:18:46.72\00:18:49.12
my boyfriend
didn't know what hit me.
00:18:49.16\00:18:51.53
You know, within a week or two,
my sister in Florida invited me
00:18:51.56\00:18:54.53
to an evangelistic
series which I went to.
00:18:54.56\00:18:58.33
And three months later,
00:18:58.37\00:18:59.77
I'm a baptized member
in the Adventist Church,
00:18:59.80\00:19:02.20
and the night
before I got baptized
00:19:02.24\00:19:03.97
my sister Cathy said,
"What are you gonna do
00:19:04.01\00:19:06.84
about your boyfriend?"
00:19:06.88\00:19:08.21
And I said,
"Nothing," I go, "I'm gay.
00:19:08.24\00:19:09.58
This is who I am."
00:19:09.61\00:19:10.95
And I said, "The only thing
I know is that Jesus loves me
00:19:10.98\00:19:14.05
for who I am."
00:19:14.08\00:19:15.42
And that night when I
gave my heart to the Lord,
00:19:15.45\00:19:18.62
the pastor was
making the final call.
00:19:18.65\00:19:20.96
And he had been
very patient with us.
00:19:20.99\00:19:23.02
And he said, "For
some of you tonight,"
00:19:23.06\00:19:24.99
he said, "this will
be the last opportunity
00:19:25.03\00:19:27.06
that the Holy Spirit
will have to reach you again."
00:19:27.10\00:19:29.93
He said, "Some of you
tonight will walk out that door
00:19:29.96\00:19:32.37
and never have
another opportunity
00:19:32.40\00:19:34.74
to accept his invitation again."
00:19:34.77\00:19:36.44
And I knew that was me.
00:19:36.47\00:19:37.84
And I bowed my head and I said,
"Lord, I can't go up there,
00:19:37.87\00:19:41.21
I just can't go up there,
I'm not worthy to go up there."
00:19:41.24\00:19:43.78
You know, "My
life is a train wreck,"
00:19:43.81\00:19:45.95
and I said, "I give you my heart
00:19:45.98\00:19:47.42
but I cannot go up there".
00:19:47.45\00:19:49.15
And my next
conscious thought is that
00:19:49.18\00:19:50.89
I was standing in front
00:19:50.92\00:19:52.25
and our sister
was standing beside me
00:19:52.29\00:19:53.69
and tears were just
coming down her face
00:19:53.72\00:19:55.42
and I said, "Why are you here?"
00:19:55.46\00:19:57.29
and she said, "Because you are."
00:19:57.33\00:19:59.39
And that was the
first conscious moment
00:19:59.43\00:20:00.93
that I realized
that I was up in front
00:20:00.96\00:20:03.06
and I believe that two
angels marched me up front
00:20:03.10\00:20:06.50
the moment that I said,
"Lord, I just give you my heart,
00:20:06.53\00:20:09.07
but I couldn't do it."
00:20:09.10\00:20:10.44
That was all He
needed and He began
00:20:10.47\00:20:12.04
this transformation.
00:20:12.07\00:20:13.41
So, Laura, I really
wanna talk a little bit about
00:20:13.44\00:20:16.48
what was your response
when Cathy called you and said,
00:20:16.51\00:20:19.38
"Mike's getting
baptized tomorrow."
00:20:19.41\00:20:21.02
What went through your mind?
00:20:21.05\00:20:23.12
I thought, oh, that's great!
00:20:23.15\00:20:24.49
All those
prayers she answered...
00:20:24.52\00:20:26.86
All those prayers she
prayed finally being answered.
00:20:26.89\00:20:29.36
I couldn't.
00:20:29.39\00:20:30.73
I don't know, Michael,
I've never been very confident
00:20:30.76\00:20:34.90
that my prayers were
the ones that got you there
00:20:34.93\00:20:36.87
because I felt
like I wasn't faithful.
00:20:36.90\00:20:40.40
I felt like I'd given
up on you too many times.
00:20:40.44\00:20:43.07
And, yeah, I got back to it.
00:20:43.10\00:20:46.61
Because the only
strength we have,
00:20:46.64\00:20:48.71
the only chance for
change is through God.
00:20:48.74\00:20:52.95
And if I stopped praying
and I didn't continue to pray,
00:20:52.98\00:20:56.65
I was basically not given
you any kind of chance at all
00:20:56.69\00:21:01.06
and I couldn't
live with that either.
00:21:01.09\00:21:03.26
I remember...
00:21:03.29\00:21:04.63
Oh, go ahead.
00:21:04.66\00:21:05.99
Being afraid to talk to you
00:21:06.03\00:21:07.40
because I didn't want to
ever give you the impression
00:21:07.43\00:21:13.10
that I didn't love you.
00:21:13.13\00:21:14.84
And yeah, I could
never give you the impression
00:21:14.87\00:21:16.84
that I condone what
you were doing either.
00:21:16.87\00:21:19.24
Because I had to be
faithful to God's word
00:21:19.27\00:21:21.61
and I didn't feel
like I could do that.
00:21:21.64\00:21:23.41
But I never wanted you to
doubt how much you meant to me,
00:21:23.45\00:21:26.58
and how much I loved you.
00:21:26.61\00:21:28.52
I wanna tell you
how you affirmed me
00:21:28.55\00:21:30.72
during that time.
00:21:30.75\00:21:32.09
When I was out of the church,
00:21:32.12\00:21:33.46
you would still
bring your children.
00:21:33.49\00:21:34.82
And you would stay in my,
00:21:34.86\00:21:36.39
you know, condo
there in Florida.
00:21:36.42\00:21:38.26
And you would
stay as long as a month
00:21:38.29\00:21:40.23
and what was so beautiful
00:21:40.26\00:21:41.60
is you never made
judgments about my friends.
00:21:41.63\00:21:43.87
You know, you
never held back your kids
00:21:43.90\00:21:46.60
from being near me.
00:21:46.63\00:21:48.00
I was absolutely
enthralled with your children
00:21:48.04\00:21:50.81
and loved being with them.
00:21:50.84\00:21:52.17
And what was amazing
is that you affirmed me
00:21:52.21\00:21:55.14
by not treating
me like an outcast.
00:21:55.18\00:21:57.78
And the same with
Cathy, she always invited me
00:21:57.81\00:21:59.85
and my boyfriends
over for holiday meals.
00:21:59.88\00:22:01.68
I never had a clue
00:22:01.72\00:22:03.82
that Cathy didn't
have the same understanding
00:22:03.85\00:22:05.99
that I did about homosexuality.
00:22:06.02\00:22:08.36
You know, her
kindness, her tenderness,
00:22:08.39\00:22:10.06
the way that she poured
out herself to my boyfriends,
00:22:10.09\00:22:12.69
even our sister Barb,
00:22:12.73\00:22:14.36
she had never met
one of my boyfriends
00:22:14.40\00:22:15.73
and invited him to dinner
when he was in Cleveland, Ohio.
00:22:15.76\00:22:18.13
So, you know,
the support was there
00:22:18.17\00:22:21.30
and I believe
that as a testimony
00:22:21.34\00:22:24.31
of the power of Jesus Christ
00:22:24.34\00:22:26.27
that we are to
be God with skin on.
00:22:26.31\00:22:28.58
And like the woman at the
well, Jesus didn't judge her.
00:22:28.61\00:22:31.41
He told her what
the truth was about
00:22:31.45\00:22:33.18
what was going on with her.
00:22:33.21\00:22:34.62
But she didn't ever feel
any rejection or judgment.
00:22:34.65\00:22:40.09
What she responded
to was the love of Jesus
00:22:40.12\00:22:43.06
that day at the well.
00:22:43.09\00:22:44.43
And so, you know,
I understand more now
00:22:44.46\00:22:47.46
from the other side
00:22:47.50\00:22:48.90
but at that time you were
still being a faithful witness
00:22:48.93\00:22:51.43
by not compromising the standard
00:22:51.47\00:22:53.17
but lavish, the
lavishing me with that love,
00:22:53.20\00:22:56.17
pouring that out to me,
00:22:56.20\00:22:57.54
and allowing me
to see my family,
00:22:57.57\00:23:00.38
and to still be in
touch with my family
00:23:00.41\00:23:01.81
because again that was what
God was using to pull me out.
00:23:01.84\00:23:06.61
Laura, I want you to tell
them about what we talked about
00:23:06.65\00:23:09.55
earlier today about,
00:23:09.58\00:23:11.75
when you knew that
God was very personal
00:23:11.79\00:23:14.76
and real to you?
00:23:14.79\00:23:17.33
Oh!
00:23:17.36\00:23:20.13
Cathy and I were praying
for another family member.
00:23:20.16\00:23:23.43
And it was, it was major,
00:23:23.47\00:23:26.10
there was some
major danger going on.
00:23:26.13\00:23:28.67
And we weren't sure how
the Lord wanted us to pray
00:23:28.70\00:23:32.57
and it was two or three
days of intense "What do we do?
00:23:32.61\00:23:36.51
How do we, how do we help her?"
00:23:36.54\00:23:38.45
And I remembered that
the Lord had spoken to Cathy
00:23:38.48\00:23:42.95
and she was telling me.
00:23:42.98\00:23:44.32
I was in Colorado,
and she was in Florida.
00:23:44.35\00:23:45.69
Over the phone,
she said, tell Laura,
00:23:45.72\00:23:48.26
such-and such and
she started to say
00:23:48.29\00:23:50.06
and I said
"Wait-wait-wait-wait-wait.
00:23:50.09\00:23:52.79
God said tell Laura?"
00:23:52.83\00:23:54.50
She said, "Yeah, let
me..." I said, "Wait, no."
00:23:54.53\00:23:58.50
He said my name?
00:23:58.53\00:24:01.47
She said, "Yeah,
let me tell you..."
00:24:01.50\00:24:03.07
I said, wait, I could
not get the past the idea
00:24:03.10\00:24:06.88
that God had said my name.
00:24:06.91\00:24:08.81
It took me a few, a few moments
00:24:08.84\00:24:11.75
to get to where I
could even focus on what
00:24:11.78\00:24:14.08
we were so intense about
just few minutes earlier.
00:24:14.12\00:24:19.22
It just blew me away
that God knew my name.
00:24:19.25\00:24:22.42
And all day long, I was
just in this euphoria like
00:24:22.46\00:24:26.19
I can't believe the
Master of the universe,
00:24:26.23\00:24:29.50
the Creator of everything,
00:24:29.53\00:24:31.23
this little speck
of a person down here,
00:24:31.27\00:24:33.87
He knows my name.
00:24:33.90\00:24:36.40
And the next day Cathy
and I were on the phone again.
00:24:36.44\00:24:39.07
That's right.
00:24:39.11\00:24:40.91
And she said, "Lord told
me to tell you something else,
00:24:40.94\00:24:44.21
He said tell Laura, yes.
00:24:44.25\00:24:46.61
I know her name."
00:24:46.65\00:24:47.98
That's really...You
know, what it reminds me of,
00:24:48.02\00:24:50.39
Laura, is in our family
00:24:50.42\00:24:51.92
we suffered under extreme
00:24:51.95\00:24:56.16
neglect not
physical abuse so much,
00:24:56.19\00:24:59.66
but definitely emotional abuse.
00:24:59.69\00:25:01.76
Our parents
divorced when we were young.
00:25:01.80\00:25:03.63
You know, our dad went.
00:25:03.67\00:25:05.20
You know, he had four wives
00:25:05.23\00:25:07.24
before he passed
away five years ago.
00:25:07.27\00:25:09.54
Our mother went off the deepened
00:25:09.57\00:25:11.04
and she had a history of
abuse as well from her father,
00:25:11.07\00:25:14.41
sexual abuse, and you
know, she went off the deepened,
00:25:14.44\00:25:17.08
you know, having many partners
00:25:17.11\00:25:18.78
and, and we lived through that.
00:25:18.81\00:25:20.15
Then our family was ripped apart
00:25:20.18\00:25:21.52
when, when our sister left us,
and then when I left, and then,
00:25:21.55\00:25:24.82
you know, we were just
always so split and so, Laura,
00:25:24.85\00:25:27.32
you were always
like the lost child.
00:25:27.36\00:25:29.02
You were, you were the
one that never made a riff,
00:25:29.06\00:25:31.56
you were the one that
that excelled in school.
00:25:31.59\00:25:34.33
And it was very easy for you
constantly wanting the approval
00:25:34.36\00:25:37.87
and affection of
your mother and father.
00:25:37.90\00:25:39.77
You, you've
always been the toucher.
00:25:39.80\00:25:41.50
You know, you
love to hold hands,
00:25:41.54\00:25:43.07
you love to touch,
you know, family members
00:25:43.10\00:25:45.51
and people that you love.
00:25:45.54\00:25:46.88
And so that wasn't gratifying
for you being in a situation
00:25:46.91\00:25:52.38
where you were just left alone.
00:25:52.41\00:25:54.32
And you never cried for
attention, as a matter of fact.
00:25:54.35\00:25:56.69
Mom said that out
of all the babies,
00:25:56.72\00:25:59.09
you were the best
'cause you never cried
00:25:59.12\00:26:00.46
unless you were hungry or wet.
00:26:00.49\00:26:01.82
And so I believe that God
knew just how lost you were
00:26:01.86\00:26:08.43
and how many times
that you were the one that
00:26:08.46\00:26:11.07
that never got anything
because you weren't loud
00:26:11.10\00:26:13.44
and you didn't demand it,
00:26:13.47\00:26:14.80
and you didn't scratch
and fight and claw for it.
00:26:14.84\00:26:17.91
And so how
amazing that was to me
00:26:17.94\00:26:19.81
that God was so personal that
He wants to tell you Himself
00:26:19.84\00:26:23.71
that He knows your name.
00:26:23.75\00:26:25.11
Anyway, so now,
00:26:25.15\00:26:27.35
since then it's been
an incredible journey.
00:26:27.38\00:26:30.79
And what would you
say to anyone out there
00:26:30.82\00:26:33.82
who has a loved
one, a brother, a sister
00:26:33.86\00:26:36.22
who is in the gay lifestyle?
00:26:36.26\00:26:38.03
And there's absolutely no hope,
00:26:38.06\00:26:39.73
and, and even if they
have totally turned their back
00:26:39.76\00:26:42.20
on their family,
00:26:42.23\00:26:43.57
and they're
totally out of the family,
00:26:43.60\00:26:44.93
or out of the way, what
advice would you give to someone
00:26:44.97\00:26:48.30
who's desperate for
their brother, sister,
00:26:48.34\00:26:51.07
a husband, or wife,
00:26:51.11\00:26:52.97
or any family member
that maybe in this lifestyle?
00:26:53.01\00:26:57.71
You have to keep praying.
00:26:57.75\00:27:00.32
And when you
don't feel like praying,
00:27:00.35\00:27:01.68
tell the Lord you
don't feel like praying
00:27:01.72\00:27:03.82
but that you
don't want your brother,
00:27:03.85\00:27:05.79
your sister, your
cousin to be left all alone
00:27:05.82\00:27:09.12
in the devil's hands.
00:27:09.16\00:27:10.66
You can't allow that
'cause if you're not praying,
00:27:10.69\00:27:13.83
then they're unguarded.
00:27:13.86\00:27:16.26
And it's not supposed
to be a burden of a prayer.
00:27:16.30\00:27:20.17
I would like to say
another thing is you cannot,
00:27:20.20\00:27:24.64
you cannot turn your
back on the word of God
00:27:24.67\00:27:28.81
and lower the
standards to say "That's okay."
00:27:28.84\00:27:32.85
You know, I can,
I can live with that
00:27:32.88\00:27:36.28
because you have to
stand firm otherwise
00:27:36.32\00:27:39.55
when they do come to the Lord,
00:27:39.59\00:27:40.92
how are they gonna
know that that it's wrong?
00:27:40.96\00:27:44.89
Or you have, you
have to show that love
00:27:44.93\00:27:47.93
but you can not deny
00:27:47.96\00:27:52.73
what God is
asking all of us to do.
00:27:52.77\00:27:54.94
Yeah. Thank you for
joining us at Pure Choices.
00:27:54.97\00:27:57.67
Thank you, Laura. Thank you.
00:27:57.71\00:27:59.51