The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are cautioned that
some material may be too candid
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for younger children.
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Hello, I'm Wayne Blakely
from Coming Out Ministries
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here today, your
host on Pure Choices.
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You won't believe
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what we're going
to talk about today.
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It's amazing, you know,
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I am so grateful to Pure Choices
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to be able to reach out
with topics of practicality,
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and dealing with Christianity,
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and helping us
some who have struggled,
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people who are
looking for answers,
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and Pure Choices is helping
by giving us the opportunity
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to share our own
experiences with you.
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So I open up the
topic today of pornography.
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I'm speaking with
my ministry colleague,
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Michael Carducci
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and special
guest, Lance Williams.
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Thank you for
joining me today, welcome.
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You know, today,
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there are some
interesting things to be said
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about homosexuality,
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and actually, not
only homosexuality
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but it doesn't matter
what sexual inclination
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that you have,
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I would like you to
listen to the statistics here
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about pornography.
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Statistics are indicating
that the pornography industry
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is larger than the revenues
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of the top
technology companies combined,
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and that includes all of these,
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Microsoft, Google,
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Amazon, eBay, Yahoo, Apple,
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Netflix, and EarthLink.
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That's a lot of money out there,
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and that's a lot of
captivity I would say.
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Mike, tell me
about the information
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that you have researched
and found out about pornography
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and some more statistics
that you actually have.
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Yeah, thank you, Wayne.
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One of the things that we
have in Coming Out Ministries is
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each one of our members,
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Wayne included and Ron
Woolsey who's also a pastor,
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is we each have areas
that it seems that our ministry
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really not specializes in
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but also addresses if you would,
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and for me, struggling
not only with homosexuality,
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I struggled with
pornography addiction.
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And some of the statistics
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that I actually use
in my presentations is
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the average age of
first Internet exposure
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to hardcore
pornography is 11 years old,
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15 to 17-year-olds having
multiple hardcore exposure
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to Internet pornography is 80%.
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And this isn't
limited to secular society,
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this is inclusive of
Christianity as well.
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Eight to sixteen-year-olds
having viewed porn online
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is 90%
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and mostly,
while doing homework.
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I've actually talked to a mother
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who was talking about
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how they've finally
gotten a computer in their home.
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And her son was on the computer,
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and when he
turned on the computer,
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all of a sudden, there were all
of these pornographic images,
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and he was very young,
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as a matter of fact,
I think he was between
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the ages of five and seven.
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And he said,
"Mommy, what's this?"
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And she came over and realized
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that whoever had
viewed the computer
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before her son turned it on
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had gotten, you know,
onto an adult website.
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And here her young
son was now exposed
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to hardcore
pornography at such a young age
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even though the mother
was supervising her son
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on the computer.
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So many times, when
I speak at academies,
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I actually will
separate the men from the women,
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and I'll talk to the
girls separate from the guys.
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And one girl was as
young as six years old
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when she had seen her first
hardcore image in pornography
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and the same in the boys group,
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you know, a boy
was six years old
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when he had been
slammed by pornography.
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Man!
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So what's amazing
is that, you know,
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the pornography industry knows
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that the younger
that they can get you,
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exposed to hardcore pornography,
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the sooner that they
can make you a client.
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So, Mike, let me ask you
this question based on that,
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how old were you when you
were exposed to pornography?
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I was actually
about 10 years old.
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My parents were divorcing,
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and my dad had
cleaned out most of his stuff
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and my mother came
across his Playboy magazines.
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And, you know,
it was in the '70s,
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and everyone was
supposedly getting kind of hip
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and I think my mom thought
it would be good education,
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well, she gave me the magazines,
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and even though...
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I wasn't even
sexual at the time.
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I remember it
being a taboo thing,
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something that I
couldn't take my eyes off of,
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you know, the
images to this day,
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and I'm 52 years old,
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I can still
remember those images.
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And, of course,
she took them away
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when I started sharing
them with the neighbor kids.
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But I remember that
that was the first impact,
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and then even later on,
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after my father
had become a Christian
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and was an elder in the church.
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My job at 16 years old
was to clean his offices,
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so I would go up to his office,
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and I remember
finding his pornography,
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and I actually was using
his pornography at 16 years old
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while I was supposedly
cleaning my dad's offices.
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And all of this while he was,
you know, upstanding citizen
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in the Christian community.
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Lance, how about
you, how old were you
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when you were
exposed to pornography?
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Same age, 10.
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Really? Yeah.
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And what was
your experience like?
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Well, the person
that was abusing me,
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he would look at pornography
before he would do these,
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you know, horrible acts with me,
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and also my mother,
when she would be drunk,
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she would be so
drunk, she would pass out,
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and she had a sexual addiction,
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and she would be
looking at Playgirl magazines.
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And so while she was passed out,
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I would sneak in
and look at them.
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Wow!
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That's just kind of, you
know, these are indelible images
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that are being
implanted on such young minds
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that it kind of lays a roadmap
for the future, doesn't it?
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Yeah, it truly does.
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So, Mike, tell me,
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how did it affect
your relationships
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as you began to interact with
people on a day-to-day basis?
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Did you develop a habit
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or did you
distance yourself from it
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or did you sensed
that it was wrong,
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tell me about that experience?
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I guess the way that my mom
snatched those magazines away
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when I started sharing
them with the neighborhood kids,
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let me know that there
was something wrong with it
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or something that wasn't
acceptable about it, you know,
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but this was the mid '60s.
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And pornography wasn't as
easily accessible as it is now.
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I remember, you know,
being with friends in a store
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and finding the rack that
had the Playboy magazines,
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and we would try
to sneak to watch it,
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and, of course, we would run
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when the store
clerks would come by
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and catch us, you know,
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sneak in and peak
or that kind of thing.
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But it wasn't until...
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I actually have become...
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Actually before I left home,
I was living with my mother,
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I was probably
about 14 years old,
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and she had a roommate
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who I also found
hardcore pornography,
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you know, this was
actually people in the act.
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And I remember, it
being kind of gross to me.
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It looked really
ugly to me, you know,
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but it still was
like a train wreck,
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I couldn't keep
my eyes off of it.
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But it was just
really bizarre looking to me,
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but it was still
making, you know,
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the inroads that
pornography does.
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So when I became an adult,
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I remember, you
know, part of my freedom,
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I'd left the church,
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and I thought, "Well, you know,
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if God has
rejected me, then, you know,
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why deny myself
anything that I want."
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And so, I started purchasing
pornographic magazines,
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and then, of course,
very soon after that,
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VHS came out.
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And I remember,
even in relationships,
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you know, we
would use pornography
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in the relationships as well.
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But the addiction,
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the hardcore
addiction to pornography
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probably started when
the Internet came out.
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And it was about 19...
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I'd say '97 when I
got my first computer,
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and it totally
engulfed my world.
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I would be up until 2
or 3 o'clock in the morning
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even in a relationship.
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You know, when I
would go back to my house,
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I would be on the
internet looking at pornography
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until 2 and 3
o'clock in the morning
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wondering how am
I going to get up.
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It had me in such a spell,
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I couldn't turn that button off.
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I even... I think...
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My roommate who I was in
a relationship at the time,
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but I think she actually
caught me a couple times
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knowing what was on the image
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before I would
shut down the monitor
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before she came around.
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So, you know, what I did is
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I just put the
computer in my room
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and then I had unlimited access.
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Right.
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You know, I, in
my sexual confusion,
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when I was about 16 years old,
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I walked into a liquor
store and purchased a Playboy
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and brought it home.
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I guess in hopes
that it was going to bring
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some kind of erotic
attraction to the opposite sex
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that I hadn't experienced in
just my day-to-day experience
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of just interacting with people.
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And I remember
that I looked at it
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and at that particular
time in the Playboy magazines,
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there wasn't any
really positioning of men,
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and it wasn't...
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Nothing was
happening, there was no sparks,
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no flare, no nothing,
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but I was keeping
it under my mattress
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in my bedroom.
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And to this day, I don't know
exactly what happened to it,
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but I wasn't the
one that got rid of it
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and nobody seems to recollect.
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But I don't know
that's kind of sad.
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Have you
experienced, either one of you,
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pornography where you've gone to
00:10:05.70\00:10:08.10
knowing that it was
seemingly wrong to you,
00:10:08.14\00:10:11.41
and so that you went
about hiding your pornography?
00:10:11.44\00:10:15.68
Oh, yeah.
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Of course, I would
keep it, I would hide it.
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I do want to say that, for me,
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even though I looked at
my mom's Playgirl magazines,
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there was a long period where
I wasn't looking at it all.
00:10:26.65\00:10:28.72
But I'll never forget, one
day, I was on my way to work,
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and I pass by a
pornography shop,
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and I'll never forget when
I saw that pornography shop.
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It just like, it
just burned in my mind.
00:10:35.90\00:10:38.50
And the mind was saying,
00:10:38.53\00:10:39.87
"I have to go
there, I have to go there."
00:10:39.90\00:10:42.14
And so, I went in there.
00:10:42.17\00:10:44.54
It was the first time I brought
my first actually gay magazine,
00:10:44.57\00:10:48.71
you know.
00:10:48.74\00:10:50.08
And I'll never
forget when I took it home
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in the secrecy of my own room,
00:10:51.78\00:10:53.31
I opened it,
00:10:53.35\00:10:54.72
and it's like I could
feel these evil spirits
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just flowing in me,
00:10:57.72\00:10:59.62
and from then on, I was
really, really hooked on this.
00:10:59.65\00:11:04.03
You know, Lance, sadly,
00:11:04.06\00:11:06.29
I also recall the
recognition of the sex shops,
00:11:06.33\00:11:12.03
and to me,
00:11:12.07\00:11:14.80
pornography wasn't as
major of a draw to me.
00:11:14.84\00:11:18.37
I mean, yes, the
pictures were there,
00:11:18.41\00:11:20.01
and they were enticing,
00:11:20.04\00:11:21.38
but to me, they
weren't enticing to the point
00:11:21.41\00:11:23.38
that I could satisfy myself
00:11:23.41\00:11:25.71
because I wanted the real thing.
00:11:25.75\00:11:27.85
And what I had found out
was that actual sexual acts
00:11:27.88\00:11:31.99
were taking place
in these sex shops,
00:11:32.02\00:11:34.59
and that became the draw for
me because many people would go.
00:11:34.62\00:11:39.86
Well, it didn't matter
whether it was night or day
00:11:39.89\00:11:41.76
because they're
dark, and scummy,
00:11:41.80\00:11:43.13
and filthy, and dirty.
00:11:43.16\00:11:44.50
It's amazing to me
00:11:44.53\00:11:46.20
what Satan is able
to impress upon people.
00:11:46.23\00:11:51.64
And recently, when I
was sharing at a church,
00:11:51.67\00:11:56.28
a gentleman came
to me afterwards,
00:11:56.31\00:11:58.01
and he said, "You know,
00:11:58.05\00:11:59.38
why Satan has such
heyday with sexuality."
00:11:59.41\00:12:02.68
And I said, "Well,
yeah, because he's, you know,
00:12:02.72\00:12:04.99
approaching and
attacking our feelings."
00:12:05.02\00:12:07.59
And he goes,
"Well, yeah, may be,
00:12:07.62\00:12:10.36
but something bigger than that."
00:12:10.39\00:12:11.83
And I said, "I have no idea."
00:12:11.86\00:12:13.96
And he said, "Consider
how the angels were created."
00:12:14.00\00:12:18.57
And I suddenly
got the impression,
00:12:18.60\00:12:21.30
"Oh, wow!
00:12:21.34\00:12:22.80
Here's somebody who
has no clue whatsoever
00:12:22.84\00:12:26.84
about what it's like to
even have a sexual organ."
00:12:26.88\00:12:30.05
And so, he sees how he can begin
00:12:30.08\00:12:32.38
to manipulate God's creatures
00:12:32.41\00:12:35.98
from any kind of
degree of degradation
00:12:36.02\00:12:39.35
that you can imagine
out of all the crimes
00:12:39.39\00:12:42.12
that are out there today.
00:12:42.16\00:12:43.53
I think sex crimes
have got to be the highest
00:12:43.56\00:12:47.90
because he just
sees how many buttons
00:12:47.93\00:12:50.57
that he can push with people
00:12:50.60\00:12:53.47
and just, you know, sit
back and cackle and react to it
00:12:53.50\00:12:56.77
because he succeeded at taking
the focus off of Jesus Christ
00:12:56.81\00:13:01.24
and putting it on self.
00:13:01.28\00:13:02.91
You know, Wayne,
00:13:02.94\00:13:04.28
it wasn't until Lance
talked about the dirty bookstore
00:13:04.31\00:13:06.72
that I totally,
completely forgot
00:13:06.75\00:13:09.28
that in my early 20s,
in my first relationship,
00:13:09.32\00:13:12.12
I had a
boyfriend that turned me on
00:13:12.15\00:13:13.66
to, you know, group sex
in these dirty bookstores,
00:13:13.69\00:13:16.42
and that became the fuel,
before the Internet came out,
00:13:16.46\00:13:20.70
like I was thinking
00:13:20.73\00:13:22.06
I didn't own
that much pornography
00:13:22.10\00:13:23.43
because I was frequenting
the dirty bookstores.
00:13:23.47\00:13:26.23
And they were frequent
00:13:26.27\00:13:28.34
and many living in Orlando
where I was in my 20s and 30s.
00:13:28.37\00:13:32.11
And so, I found
myself visiting these places
00:13:32.14\00:13:36.41
several times a week if
not a couple times in a day.
00:13:36.44\00:13:39.11
It was absolutely like a
kid being in a candy store
00:13:39.15\00:13:42.65
for the addiction
and the drive that I had.
00:13:42.68\00:13:45.19
I had nameless and
countless encounters
00:13:45.22\00:13:47.62
with people that you
can't even imagine the filth,
00:13:47.66\00:13:51.19
and the shame as you would
walk into a place like that,
00:13:51.23\00:13:54.40
and especially the
shame as you would walk out
00:13:54.43\00:13:56.77
fearful that
somebody may have driven by
00:13:56.80\00:13:58.17
that would see you
00:13:58.20\00:13:59.53
or worse yet that you might
go inside one of these places
00:13:59.57\00:14:02.20
and see somebody that you know,
00:14:02.24\00:14:04.04
and this went on
for me for 20 years.
00:14:04.07\00:14:07.61
Twenty years.
00:14:07.64\00:14:08.98
It's ugly, and I totally
and completely relate to that.
00:14:09.01\00:14:12.45
I mean, I would spent
entire Sundays, you know,
00:14:12.48\00:14:17.15
if you are sexually driven
00:14:17.19\00:14:19.99
and if you allow
that to take you over,
00:14:20.02\00:14:22.22
you know that you are going
to search from morning to night
00:14:22.26\00:14:25.56
to find the experience
that you're looking for.
00:14:25.59\00:14:28.20
Eventually, it was
the uglier the situation,
00:14:28.23\00:14:31.30
the dirtier it got,
00:14:31.33\00:14:32.77
the more drive
there was behind it.
00:14:32.80\00:14:34.57
It was almost like a
total sell out, it's like,
00:14:34.60\00:14:38.57
it wasn't enough that
normal sex would satisfy,
00:14:38.61\00:14:41.61
now it was like
with pornography,
00:14:41.64\00:14:43.45
it had to get deeper,
and it had to get darker,
00:14:43.48\00:14:46.01
and the harder it
was or the more...
00:14:46.05\00:14:50.59
Just the
filthier the conquest was,
00:14:50.62\00:14:52.85
it was almost like,
00:14:52.89\00:14:54.22
it created even more of a drive,
00:14:54.26\00:14:55.59
it heightened the
experience if you would.
00:14:55.62\00:14:58.29
You know, the hideous
thing about this is that
00:14:58.33\00:15:00.80
this is something that we
typically don't talk about.
00:15:00.83\00:15:04.70
And so, the sin that we hide
00:15:04.73\00:15:07.84
or the sin that is silent
00:15:07.87\00:15:09.70
becomes the sin of indulgence.
00:15:09.74\00:15:13.31
Mike, I think you know
actually some statistics
00:15:13.34\00:15:15.88
about clergy involving
pornography, don't you?
00:15:15.91\00:15:20.12
Well, the statistic
is actually old now,
00:15:20.15\00:15:22.38
I think it's more than 50%,
00:15:22.42\00:15:24.22
but right now, the only
statistic that I know of
00:15:24.25\00:15:26.39
it's 45% of Christian pastors
00:15:26.42\00:15:29.79
are actually addicted
to online pornography.
00:15:29.82\00:15:32.19
As a matter of
fact, there's a pastor
00:15:32.23\00:15:34.76
who's actually in Orlando
now, his name is Bernie...
00:15:34.80\00:15:38.20
I can't think of his
last name. Bernie Anderson.
00:15:38.23\00:15:39.63
Yes, Bernie Anderson
00:15:39.67\00:15:41.00
who has a book out
about his struggle as a pastor
00:15:41.04\00:15:44.64
addicted to pornography.
00:15:44.67\00:15:46.41
You know,
what's amazing to me is
00:15:46.44\00:15:48.78
now that I've come out of that
00:15:48.81\00:15:51.08
through the help of
Jesus Christ and Him only.
00:15:51.11\00:15:53.11
Yeah, we're going
to talk about that.
00:15:53.15\00:15:54.48
Okay, all right, so
you want me to wait?
00:15:54.52\00:15:55.85
No, go ahead.
00:15:55.88\00:15:57.22
So, anyway, at my
church, I just, you know,
00:15:57.25\00:15:58.59
I would get up in front
00:15:58.62\00:15:59.95
and say that I came
from sexual addiction.
00:15:59.99\00:16:01.86
And what was amazing is
00:16:01.89\00:16:03.22
because this is
such a taboo subject
00:16:03.26\00:16:04.73
in our churches,
00:16:04.76\00:16:06.09
I was approached by
two men that would say,
00:16:06.13\00:16:08.50
you know, by
themselves, they would say,
00:16:08.53\00:16:09.86
"Mike, can we go lunch?"
00:16:09.90\00:16:11.23
And, you know, again,
00:16:11.27\00:16:12.60
with my
rejection of masculinity,
00:16:12.63\00:16:13.97
I thought it was like a
multilevel marketing scheme
00:16:14.00\00:16:15.64
or something.
00:16:15.67\00:16:17.01
But we would go to lunch
and they would share with me
00:16:17.04\00:16:18.57
that they struggled with
online pornography addiction,
00:16:18.61\00:16:21.18
and their wives caught them
00:16:21.21\00:16:22.54
or the other guy, his
wife had known for 35 years,
00:16:22.58\00:16:24.88
and she basically
was putting up with it
00:16:24.91\00:16:26.95
knowing that he couldn't,
you know, beat this habit,
00:16:26.98\00:16:29.32
even his children knew
that he struggled with this.
00:16:29.35\00:16:32.02
And so, there were no resources,
00:16:32.05\00:16:34.06
there was no safe
place in our church culture
00:16:34.09\00:16:37.03
to address this issue or
to even create an atmosphere
00:16:37.06\00:16:39.76
safety for this men to get help.
00:16:39.79\00:16:41.63
And so, as they approached me,
00:16:41.66\00:16:43.00
we began a
support group in my house
00:16:43.03\00:16:45.37
to address, you
know, the onslaught
00:16:45.40\00:16:48.00
of this pornography addiction
that they struggle with.
00:16:48.04\00:16:50.44
Right.
00:16:50.47\00:16:51.81
So this is how...
00:16:51.84\00:16:53.44
Now before that
actually took place,
00:16:53.48\00:16:56.18
was there a time that
00:16:56.21\00:16:58.41
you were able to break this
vicious cycle of pornography
00:16:58.45\00:17:03.18
for you personally?
00:17:03.22\00:17:04.55
Oh, Wayne, it
was the hardest thing
00:17:04.59\00:17:07.66
I have ever had to
overcome in my entire life.
00:17:07.69\00:17:12.99
I mean, as a
matter of fact, you know,
00:17:13.03\00:17:14.90
images while I'm
putting together a presentation
00:17:14.93\00:17:18.07
or even a sermon for my church,
00:17:18.10\00:17:20.04
I'll put in a simple search
00:17:20.07\00:17:21.40
for Jesus at the
well with the woman,
00:17:21.44\00:17:23.34
and I'll have
graphic hardcore pornography
00:17:23.37\00:17:26.17
come up in the images
00:17:26.21\00:17:27.54
that I'm looking
to put in a slide.
00:17:27.58\00:17:29.04
And again, I have to absolutely
bounce my eyes, you know,
00:17:29.08\00:17:32.28
once I realize what's happening.
00:17:32.31\00:17:33.85
And so, I can feel the
pull, I know the draw still,
00:17:33.88\00:17:37.39
you know, men are
wired visually, you know,
00:17:37.42\00:17:39.25
that's how we're turned on.
00:17:39.29\00:17:40.62
And so, you know,
for men especially,
00:17:40.66\00:17:42.32
this is, you know, a
very difficult issue.
00:17:42.36\00:17:44.83
As a matter of
fact, one in three women
00:17:44.86\00:17:47.30
are addicted to
pornography as well.
00:17:47.33\00:17:48.90
So it's not limited to just men.
00:17:48.93\00:17:51.33
And so, what I
realized is in my own struggle
00:17:51.37\00:17:53.44
to overcome this,
00:17:53.47\00:17:54.80
you know, and God was gracious,
00:17:54.84\00:17:56.20
not only did He relieve me
of that addiction, you know,
00:17:56.24\00:17:59.47
when I first became a Christian,
00:17:59.51\00:18:01.24
but then I also
gave back into it again.
00:18:01.28\00:18:03.85
And you know
what, the self-loathing
00:18:03.88\00:18:07.18
and the addiction
seemed to be even stronger
00:18:07.22\00:18:09.58
and the desire for it,
00:18:09.62\00:18:11.12
but again, God
was gracious again
00:18:11.15\00:18:12.55
the second time to address it
00:18:12.59\00:18:14.36
and to give me the victory.
00:18:14.39\00:18:15.72
And that's why I just can't help
00:18:15.76\00:18:17.49
but share how good God is
to help us to overcome that.
00:18:17.53\00:18:21.16
Right, be
passionate about the victory.
00:18:21.20\00:18:22.76
Yeah, yes. Absolutely.
00:18:22.80\00:18:24.13
Yeah, there is that
draw that, you know,
00:18:24.17\00:18:26.10
as I think some people
will stave themselves off
00:18:26.13\00:18:28.70
and because it is a secret sin,
00:18:28.74\00:18:30.57
you know,
they're good for a month,
00:18:30.61\00:18:32.17
you know, and they've held out,
00:18:32.21\00:18:33.58
and then it again,
it's like the Bible says,
00:18:33.61\00:18:35.64
it's about like the
dog returning to its vomit.
00:18:35.68\00:18:39.25
And I think we
should talk about this
00:18:39.28\00:18:41.05
what triggers it sometimes,
00:18:41.08\00:18:42.65
and for me, it's
always been stress.
00:18:42.68\00:18:44.59
Right. Tell me
about that, Lance?
00:18:44.62\00:18:45.95
When I didn't have a good day
or I don't feel myself worthy,
00:18:45.99\00:18:49.69
I'm just down in the dumps.
00:18:49.72\00:18:51.06
Yeah, it's like I get
this overpowering feeling
00:18:51.09\00:18:55.00
to go and look at it.
00:18:55.03\00:18:56.56
You know, for me, it was
00:18:56.60\00:18:58.20
whenever my
masculinity was threatened,
00:18:58.23\00:19:00.44
that was a trigger for me.
00:19:00.47\00:19:01.80
I mentioned in another
program that we had earlier that
00:19:01.84\00:19:05.34
whenever my dad would, you know,
00:19:05.37\00:19:07.38
my dad and I would
get into it, you know,
00:19:07.41\00:19:09.34
it's like it
would make me angry,
00:19:09.38\00:19:10.71
I felt inadequate,
00:19:10.75\00:19:12.18
you know, I felt like I
was in competition with my dad.
00:19:12.21\00:19:14.02
Whenever it would
attack those feelings
00:19:14.05\00:19:15.98
like I wasn't manly enough,
00:19:16.02\00:19:17.92
that was the first
thing that I was driven to,
00:19:17.95\00:19:20.49
you know, and it
was impulsive for me,
00:19:20.52\00:19:22.36
and especially
because of, you know,
00:19:22.39\00:19:23.99
patterns when you
repeat this over and over.
00:19:24.03\00:19:26.39
You know, there's this chemical
00:19:26.43\00:19:27.76
that gets, you know,
thrown up into your brain
00:19:27.80\00:19:29.53
at a sexual release that
takes a picture and says,
00:19:29.56\00:19:31.97
"You know, let's do that again."
00:19:32.00\00:19:33.34
It's almost like an
opioid that's released.
00:19:33.37\00:19:36.00
And so, the drive,
the habit was there,
00:19:36.04\00:19:38.61
and then, when the
insecurities would come in
00:19:38.64\00:19:40.88
and the emasculation,
00:19:40.91\00:19:42.28
that right there was
an explosive combination
00:19:42.31\00:19:44.15
that drove me straight to it.
00:19:44.18\00:19:45.55
Right. You know, this is...
00:19:45.58\00:19:47.88
Just talking about it,
it's vicious, it's sickening,
00:19:47.92\00:19:50.99
and it's
nauseating when you realize
00:19:51.02\00:19:53.82
that you're in that cycle.
00:19:53.86\00:19:56.49
Are there safeguards
that can be put in place,
00:19:56.52\00:19:59.56
you know, as an adult,
00:19:59.59\00:20:00.93
you know, people who have
full access to the Internet,
00:20:00.96\00:20:04.07
now it's on your
cell phone, you know,
00:20:04.10\00:20:06.53
Satan doesn't care
where he can get you,
00:20:06.57\00:20:08.57
but he's been able to get you in
00:20:08.60\00:20:10.31
more and more and more places.
00:20:10.34\00:20:12.01
Yeah.
00:20:12.04\00:20:13.38
Any safeguards that
you guys can think of?
00:20:13.41\00:20:15.64
Absolutely, as a matter of fact,
00:20:15.68\00:20:17.01
there's many that you can
actually get on the Internet
00:20:17.05\00:20:20.62
that called Safe Eyes,
and what's another one,
00:20:20.65\00:20:23.49
Lance, that you can think of?
00:20:23.52\00:20:24.92
I can't think of
anything at this time, yeah.
00:20:24.95\00:20:26.29
Yeah, I'm drawing a blank too.
00:20:26.32\00:20:27.66
But all you have to do
is look up, you know...
00:20:27.69\00:20:29.02
Do a different
search on the web.
00:20:29.06\00:20:31.39
That's right. That's right.
00:20:31.43\00:20:32.76
Yeah, safeguards
from pornography,
00:20:32.79\00:20:34.50
and I know that there
are some out there too.
00:20:34.53\00:20:36.77
I should have been a
little bit better prepared
00:20:36.80\00:20:39.33
to mention some of
those, but all you have to do
00:20:39.37\00:20:41.20
is Google or web search
00:20:41.24\00:20:42.77
for safeguards for
Internet pornography.
00:20:42.80\00:20:46.94
But it goes well beyond that.
00:20:46.98\00:20:48.38
You're absolutely right,
Wayne, it goes way beyond that.
00:20:48.41\00:20:51.41
As a matter of fact,
that in my opinion should be
00:20:51.45\00:20:54.05
something else that you
try after being authentic about
00:20:54.08\00:20:58.02
what's really going on.
00:20:58.05\00:20:59.55
You know, what is the
definition of insanity?
00:20:59.59\00:21:01.59
Doing the same
thing over and over
00:21:01.62\00:21:03.16
and hoping for a change.
00:21:03.19\00:21:04.89
So does it have
something to do with decision?
00:21:04.93\00:21:06.90
Well, our decision,
but I know that every time
00:21:06.93\00:21:09.56
that I got on
to the pornography,
00:21:09.60\00:21:11.07
I mean, it was
banging in the back of my head
00:21:11.10\00:21:13.20
that the Lord was saying,
00:21:13.23\00:21:14.57
"Mike, don't do
this to yourself.
00:21:14.60\00:21:15.94
Don't slime yourself,
you know, don't let this,
00:21:15.97\00:21:18.51
you know, keep
you apart from Me."
00:21:18.54\00:21:20.71
And as I would hear that,
you know, the draw or the pull,
00:21:20.74\00:21:23.58
like even the
telephone would ring, you know,
00:21:23.61\00:21:25.85
and I would think,
I know God's sending
00:21:25.88\00:21:27.72
that telephone call to
keep me off the Internet,
00:21:27.75\00:21:30.49
not only that but the
thought would come into my head,
00:21:30.52\00:21:32.79
why don't I call a friend,
why don't I call somebody that,
00:21:32.82\00:21:35.62
you know, will help
me through this time
00:21:35.66\00:21:36.99
that would pray
for me, and eventually,
00:21:37.03\00:21:38.89
I've actually sent out
texts to all the males that are,
00:21:38.93\00:21:41.70
you know, that are in my
group or that I'm close with,
00:21:41.73\00:21:43.77
and I say, "Please pray for me,
00:21:43.80\00:21:45.67
I'm struggling,
I need strength."
00:21:45.70\00:21:47.97
And so what's great is
00:21:48.00\00:21:49.47
I haven't
experienced the shame yet,
00:21:49.50\00:21:50.84
but I'm definitely in
the middle of temptation,
00:21:50.87\00:21:53.17
and by the power and
the body of Jesus Christ
00:21:53.21\00:21:55.41
gathering around
and I get text back,
00:21:55.44\00:21:57.05
"I'm praying for
you, Mike, how you doing?
00:21:57.08\00:21:59.11
Stay strong.
00:21:59.15\00:22:00.48
You know, all right,
get a phone call right away
00:22:00.52\00:22:01.85
and someone would pray with me."
00:22:01.88\00:22:03.32
Those things help,
but there's an honesty
00:22:03.35\00:22:08.39
that has to be bridged,
00:22:08.42\00:22:09.76
and I can't even
say how that leap comes,
00:22:09.79\00:22:12.26
but for men that are
married or for men and women
00:22:12.29\00:22:15.66
that are in relationships
00:22:15.70\00:22:17.03
that they know
that this is happening,
00:22:17.07\00:22:18.53
when there's a
moment of exposure
00:22:18.57\00:22:21.50
whether it's your choice or not,
00:22:21.54\00:22:24.34
that gives you an opportunity
00:22:24.37\00:22:25.94
to finally come
clean with it all.
00:22:25.97\00:22:28.34
And the beauty is as we
give utterance to the fact
00:22:28.38\00:22:31.18
that we were
addicted to this, Lance,
00:22:31.21\00:22:32.98
there's even freedom
in that, isn't there?
00:22:33.01\00:22:34.95
What it does is
it helps to expose
00:22:34.98\00:22:37.29
what's been hidden for so long,
00:22:37.32\00:22:38.99
and now, I
finally have authenticity
00:22:39.02\00:22:41.16
and power comes.
00:22:41.19\00:22:42.66
So for anyone that's out
there that's feeling the grip
00:22:42.69\00:22:46.33
or the control of
pornography addiction,
00:22:46.36\00:22:48.46
the first step is just
to be honest with yourself,
00:22:48.50\00:22:51.10
and then to cry
out to God and say,
00:22:51.13\00:22:52.90
"Listen, I'm
struggling with this,
00:22:52.93\00:22:54.74
can You help me?"
00:22:54.77\00:22:56.47
I tell you what, to me,
00:22:56.50\00:22:58.51
it starts with lack of intimacy.
00:22:58.54\00:23:00.58
That's right.
And that was with me.
00:23:00.61\00:23:03.75
You know, myself it was so bad,
00:23:03.78\00:23:06.18
I couldn't even
perform with a man or a woman.
00:23:06.21\00:23:10.09
And so, the
pornography was what was...
00:23:10.12\00:23:12.89
That's what I
would... I can control that.
00:23:12.92\00:23:15.76
You know, and so, I'm
finding will it set me free
00:23:15.79\00:23:19.49
the more I get into
intimate relationships
00:23:19.53\00:23:21.86
with men and
women in a healthy way,
00:23:21.90\00:23:24.03
the power is broken.
00:23:24.07\00:23:25.40
Yes, yes, yes. Right.
00:23:25.43\00:23:26.77
And it's not sex
that we're talking about.
00:23:26.80\00:23:28.14
We're talking about
intimacy that isn't sexual.
00:23:28.17\00:23:29.57
Yes, yes. Right.
00:23:29.60\00:23:30.94
And, you know, for Lance
and I, both being abandoned
00:23:30.97\00:23:32.74
by our gender parent,
you know, and you with both,
00:23:32.77\00:23:36.85
what happens is pornography
only fuels that inclusiveness,
00:23:36.88\00:23:40.52
that self-love
because, you know,
00:23:40.55\00:23:42.45
reaching out, you know,
00:23:42.48\00:23:43.85
was so negative
for either one of us,
00:23:43.89\00:23:46.25
pornography was a perfect fit.
00:23:46.29\00:23:48.19
You know, so what that did
is that it actually kept it in,
00:23:48.22\00:23:51.16
it keeps you away
from experiencing intimacy
00:23:51.19\00:23:54.00
and
relationships with other people
00:23:54.03\00:23:55.63
and God designed us to be
social human beings, right?
00:23:55.66\00:23:58.73
To be intimate beings
00:23:58.77\00:24:00.27
because isn't that
what the trinity is,
00:24:00.30\00:24:02.30
you know, the Godhead.
00:24:02.34\00:24:03.67
Amen. Right. Exactly.
00:24:03.71\00:24:06.37
You know, I just feel convicted
00:24:06.41\00:24:10.45
to talk to you as
a viewer right now.
00:24:10.48\00:24:13.65
Are you suffering?
00:24:13.68\00:24:15.32
Have you found yourself
spending out of control?
00:24:15.35\00:24:19.12
Have you been hiding pornography
00:24:19.15\00:24:20.96
from your spouse?
00:24:20.99\00:24:23.09
Have you found
yourself slipping out the door
00:24:23.12\00:24:25.76
and heading to a sex shop?
00:24:25.79\00:24:29.13
I want to beg
you to come to Jesus
00:24:29.16\00:24:32.87
and get real with Jesus
and to surrender to Him,
00:24:32.90\00:24:37.51
lay it down at His feet,
00:24:37.54\00:24:39.64
and ask Him for the
help that He offers you,
00:24:39.67\00:24:43.68
and ask Him to
cover you with His blood,
00:24:43.71\00:24:47.05
and to send Satan and his angels
00:24:47.08\00:24:49.25
far away from you,
00:24:49.28\00:24:52.05
and ask Him for the
intimacy that He promises you,
00:24:52.09\00:24:57.16
and that whether you're a pastor
00:24:57.19\00:25:00.33
or whether you're just a
worker in the public sector,
00:25:00.36\00:25:05.83
it doesn't matter who you are
who may be suffering from this,
00:25:05.87\00:25:09.50
reach out, call upon Jesus,
00:25:09.54\00:25:12.27
and reach out to
resources that may be out there,
00:25:12.31\00:25:16.88
that are out there for you,
00:25:16.91\00:25:18.91
involving yourself
with the church community,
00:25:18.95\00:25:21.22
involving yourself with someone
00:25:21.25\00:25:22.72
who you can have
accountability with.
00:25:22.75\00:25:25.65
In the church, you
can get close to someone
00:25:25.69\00:25:29.19
and say, "Hey, I
have this problem,
00:25:29.22\00:25:31.26
and will you pray for me,
00:25:31.29\00:25:32.79
and will you keep
this confidential,
00:25:32.83\00:25:35.20
and will you walk
with me through this?"
00:25:35.23\00:25:37.97
Do you have anything
that you'd like to add?
00:25:38.00\00:25:40.04
Yes, you know, Wayne,
there are powerful scriptures
00:25:40.07\00:25:42.47
that really help me.
00:25:42.50\00:25:43.84
In John 6:37 was
implemental for me,
00:25:43.87\00:25:46.94
"All that the Father
gives me, shall come to me,
00:25:46.98\00:25:49.41
and Him that comes to
me, I will never cast out."
00:25:49.44\00:25:53.11
He also says that,
"If we confess our sins,
00:25:53.15\00:25:55.58
He is faithful
00:25:55.62\00:25:56.95
and just to
forgive us our sins,"
00:25:56.99\00:25:58.39
and the best
part, is He promises
00:25:58.42\00:26:00.29
to cleanse us from
all unrighteousness.
00:26:00.32\00:26:02.62
Now, this wasn't
something that I claimed once,
00:26:02.66\00:26:05.09
but I had to recognize that
00:26:05.13\00:26:06.86
He was the faithful one, not me.
00:26:06.90\00:26:08.76
And every time I
fell, I had to claim this
00:26:08.80\00:26:10.67
and again recognize
that that would be help me.
00:26:10.70\00:26:12.97
He's still there to pick you up.
00:26:13.00\00:26:14.34
My favorite, "Let these souls
in their helpless unworthiness,
00:26:14.37\00:26:18.07
throw themselves upon the mercy
of a compassionate Savior."
00:26:18.11\00:26:21.71
And it says, "He
that comes to me,
00:26:21.74\00:26:24.18
can never be turned away."
00:26:24.21\00:26:26.35
That was so beautiful for
me because in my fallen state,
00:26:26.38\00:26:29.78
I needed that
strength, I needed that lifeline
00:26:29.82\00:26:33.59
to help me realize that
He hadn't given up on me.
00:26:33.62\00:26:35.82
Right. How about you, Lance?
00:26:35.86\00:26:37.19
Lord has helped me,
oh, boy, you shall not need
00:26:37.23\00:26:38.56
to fight this battle,
set yourself, stand ye still,
00:26:38.59\00:26:41.56
and seek the
salvation of the Lord.
00:26:41.60\00:26:42.93
Amen.
00:26:42.96\00:26:44.30
But the bell is
not yours, it's God.
00:26:44.33\00:26:46.27
And so when I go
through these temptations stuff,
00:26:46.30\00:26:48.34
I run to Him, and
He takes care of it,
00:26:48.37\00:26:50.04
I don't have to
worry about it. Right.
00:26:50.07\00:26:52.01
And that was a
big difference too.
00:26:52.04\00:26:53.38
Not understanding
the maleness of God
00:26:53.41\00:26:55.84
and the goodness of Him.
00:26:55.88\00:26:57.21
You know, I had to recognize
00:26:57.25\00:26:58.98
that I had to run to
the one who made me clean.
00:26:59.01\00:27:01.42
You know, in my fallen state,
00:27:01.45\00:27:02.78
I was afraid to
approach God for shame
00:27:02.82\00:27:05.05
and rejection
that I felt all along,
00:27:05.09\00:27:07.29
but I realize now that
God wants me to thrive.
00:27:07.32\00:27:10.19
He wants me to come to Him,
00:27:10.23\00:27:11.56
and He will cleanse
me and establish me.
00:27:11.59\00:27:13.90
That's right.
00:27:13.93\00:27:15.26
And you know that our fight
as the Word of God tells us is,
00:27:15.30\00:27:19.00
it's not against flesh and blood
00:27:19.03\00:27:21.10
but against the
powers of darkness.
00:27:21.14\00:27:23.30
Principalities, that's right.
00:27:23.34\00:27:24.67
I have to thank you so
much, it takes so much courage
00:27:24.71\00:27:27.54
for you to be able to sit here
00:27:27.58\00:27:29.51
and be open with
the general public about
00:27:29.54\00:27:32.11
what's your
journey has been like,
00:27:32.15\00:27:34.42
but that you have found victory.
00:27:34.45\00:27:36.48
And as a viewer, I just want you
00:27:36.52\00:27:38.05
to experience the same victory
00:27:38.09\00:27:40.49
that they have
found in Jesus Christ.
00:27:40.52\00:27:42.92
So I want to ask you again today
00:27:42.96\00:27:45.23
to make pure choices,
00:27:45.26\00:27:48.63
to let Jesus
come into your heart.
00:27:48.66\00:27:50.57
Invite Him in today.
00:27:50.60\00:27:52.13