The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Hello, I'm Wayne Blakely
with Coming Out Ministries.
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Today, your host
here on Pure Choices.
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Today, Michael
Carducci joins me,
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my ministry colleague.
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You'd think I
could say that right.
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And a very special
guest, Lance Williams.
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That's right. Amen.
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I want to thank you
guys for being here today.
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And what we're
going to talk about today
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is about being
raised with a single parent.
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Did you know that
there are more single mothers
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raising families now than
there are dual parent families?
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And that statistic actually
is unable to be reversed.
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Mike and Lance, you both grew up
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with single parents
in your younger years.
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And, Mike, I'm wondering
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if you might be able to
give us some history about this.
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Sure.
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Actually, my mother and
dad were married for 12 years.
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But my dad was in
the Navy for 10 years.
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And so when I was born,
my dad was a Navy musician.
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And he would be gone sometimes
three to six months at a time.
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So, you know, we never knew
when dad was going to be home.
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For the most part, you know,
it was a single parent family.
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My mom was there, I
was raised, you know,
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with three other sisters.
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So I was second of four.
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And I remember that
whenever dad was home, you know,
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he was explosive, he
was a hot-headed Italian.
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And it almost seemed, you know,
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kind of his right to
just blow up at things.
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And one minute he'd be
fine and actually having fun
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and throwing us up in the air.
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And then all of a sudden,
one little thing would happen
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and just totally, you
know, turn over the applecart,
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and he'd be upset and angry.
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You know,
somebody would get spanked
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and it was just
this chaotic life,
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you know, when dad was home.
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So what I started to
realize is that I always felt
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much more at peace
when dad wasn't home.
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And I remember my
mom would say, you know,
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"Now you're the man
of the house, you know,
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your dad's gone on
a cruise or whatever."
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And I think it at
such an early age,
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I really took that seriously
because I had rejected my dad
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as my gender role model.
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And so I believe that
I was the one in charge
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whenever my dad was gone,
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not that that's
hard to understand.
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But what happened for me is
by his being absent so long,
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I viewed that as an abandonment.
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And, you know, at a time
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when I needed my
dad to understand
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what masculinity
looked like, it wasn't there.
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But then when he was home,
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his example of masculinity to me
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was frightening and terrifying.
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It was labile, I
couldn't trust it,
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I couldn't get a handle on it.
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And so I believe it an
age before I was conscious,
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I rejected it totally.
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And I turned back to
my mother's femininity.
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It was stable, I
could understand it,
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I could predict
it, and it was safe.
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So, you know,
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having no other
role models in the home.
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When my parents
did finally divorce,
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you know, I remember, oh,
my dad took us to the lake.
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And I remember
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my three sisters
were in the backseat,
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I was in the
front seat with my dad.
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And he made this announcement
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that my parents
were getting a divorce.
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And I remember my first
response at 10 years old
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thinking good,
you're out of here.
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You know which confirms to me
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that I had
rejected him long before.
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Where as my sisters in
the backseat were crying,
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and heartbroken, and
feeling terribly upset.
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And I'm thinking to myself
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why are they so
affected by that,
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you know, he's
finally out of here.
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Wow, this really
shows how we can certainly
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be a victim of
our circumstances.
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Lance, what was it like for you?
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Well, you know, my mom
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and my dad were both alcoholics.
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My father was at first,
my mom wasn't initially,
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but somehow she got
caught up into that.
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And I'll never forget
one day, they both came home,
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they both were drunk.
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And next thing I knew,
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we heard a crash
in the living room
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and my mother had
set on a television set
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and it just
crashed on the floor.
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Next thing I know, my father
was just yelling and screaming.
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And then he grabbed
his suitcases and stuff
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and he put them in the trunk.
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And I just remember
it right in my mind,
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my brothers and
myself were just watching him
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go into his car
and just leaving.
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And it was
interesting 'cause my brothers,
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they were just crying.
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And I was just
standing there just looking.
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I didn't show any
emotion, I was just watching
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what was going on.
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Did you think
that that his leaving
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had something to do with
you or did you fully think
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that had everything
to do with your mother?
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I think it has to
do it with my mother.
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Okay.
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So you made the
adjustment pretty much okay
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when he made his departure.
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I was happy that
he left actually.
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Do you think that there
are any prenatal influences
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with regards to how you
came about in your childhood
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and began to develop some
of the same sex attraction
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that began to
exacerbate itself in your life?
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Well, yeah.
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I mean, I know for me, I
had mentioned in my testimony
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that my mom was
depressed and hungry.
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And for some reason I
took on those characteristics
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after I came out of her womb.
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And I had that sensitivity,
that's one of the factors
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I think it leads to
same sex attraction.
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Sure.
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Was there anything,
Mike, in your prenatal history
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that you know about?
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You know, I think, my mom
definitely knew that my dad
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was having multiple
affairs while he would be away,
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you know, at sea because
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again being a musician
he had access to the public.
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He had, you know,
a lot of accolades
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and people
coming up to him that,
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you know, were
responding to his music.
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And so my mom
would find, you know,
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phone numbers
and things like that.
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So I believe that,
you know, we know through
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Ministry of Healing,
it talks about, you know,
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the care of the baby
before it's born that
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what the mother goes through,
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it is also
transferred to the baby as well.
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And so I believe that
there was that influence.
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I wouldn't have acknowledged
it before but it just seems
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to make more
sense that, you know,
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this cycle was already
beginning before I was born.
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What do you think
the significance of a dad
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is in child development,
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either one of you
want to respond to that?
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Well, I know that my father...
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There's something he
specifically said that
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that really struck me,
I remember to this day.
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He said he does not
want us to play with him.
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He wouldn't wrestle us, he
wouldn't play ball with us.
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Wow.
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So I think a lack of a parent
causes a lack of stability,
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confusion, and a lack
of courage to step out
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and do things.
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Wow.
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Why do you think he
put you off like that?
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Did you get any
kind of confirmation
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as to why that was?
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I did remember that I
was told that my father,
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his father died in his
arms when he was about 15 or 16
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and he went on his own.
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He was on his own
since he was 15 or 16.
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Okay.
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So now I can understand
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why he wasn't
emotional or there for us.
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You know, over and
over through the programming
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that we have been doing
here on Pure Choices, you know,
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I'm just reminded of
what we've experienced,
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makes me want to
go back and look at
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what our parents
experienced in their childhood.
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And a lot of times we
have no access to that.
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But the more I
hear from each of you,
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it really shows the
dysfunction, you know,
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has come down
through the line of heredity.
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Mike, I know you
probably have some things.
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I have heard you
talk about before
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with respect to the experience
of rejection from your dad.
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Can you elaborate
on that a little bit?
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You know, as Lance
was talking about his dad
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making these statements,
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I'm reminded that in
the Bible it says that,
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"Our words have the
power of life and death."
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And, you know, my dad
called us stupid, moron, idiot,
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and, you know,
these were common words
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that we would hear, you know,
every single day of our lives.
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You know, my damage,
you know, came through
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same sex attraction
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and isolating
behavior as well as Lance's.
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But I have three sisters
that were also damaged by that,
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you know, in maybe some
of the choices of the men
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that they picked in
their lives or whatever.
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If it's true that our words
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have the power
of life and death,
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those words have a
profound meaning on us
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as kids thinking
we're not valuable,
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we're not smart.
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It wasn't until
after I left home
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and actually
interacted with other people
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that I started to realize
that, oh, I can communicate,
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maybe I'm not as
dumb as I thought.
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And even though the
tapes are still there
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and they're very
difficult to get rid of
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even at 52 years
of age, you know,
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I am able to sort some of
that out consciously and say no,
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I don't have to listen to
that anymore, that's a lie.
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But isn't it interesting
that something that happened,
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you know, in vitro or
even at a very young age
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that stays with you.
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You know, I'd like to
draw a conclusion here.
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It's so interesting,
you're listening to people
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and the abandonment
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and the
dysfunction of childhood.
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And we think of a
particularly a single parent
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in this case, your father's.
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So if you're told
as you're growing up
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or you come in
contact with Christianity.
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And you're told about
your Father God, you know,
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what do you think about your
Father God when you're thinking
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about your father
who was the only person
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that you can relate
to about this figure?
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Does that do something
to you, was there something
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that was hard for you to connect
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as to who is my Father God?
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All right. Yeah,
let me shoot forehead.
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That's a loaded question, Wayne.
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For me, I was living with my mom
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until I was about 14 years old.
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My father had actually,
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had an affair with a
backslidden Christian
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that worked in our restaurant.
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You know, it totally
destroyed, you know, our family.
00:10:45.11\00:10:47.21
But what happened is
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my mother at the
divorce told my dad that...
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My dad said, "I got everything."
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And my mom said, "No,
you didn't get my kids."
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And then at that point,
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my sisters and I
became pawns in this game.
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And my dad was dead set
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on getting each one
of us to live with him.
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And he had
actually become a Christian.
00:11:05.13\00:11:07.33
So I don't know how all
of this blurred together.
00:11:07.36\00:11:09.56
But now as he's like
the elder of his church,
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you know, one by one
he is manipulating us
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to come and live with him.
00:11:15.24\00:11:16.71
And at that time, I didn't
want to live with my mom anymore
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than I wanted to
live with my dad.
00:11:19.27\00:11:20.61
But, you know, I
kind of thought, well,
00:11:20.64\00:11:21.98
maybe I could go
away to private school
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and I wouldn't have to
live with either one of them.
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But when I went there
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what was amazing is, you know,
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my dad's character
was still the same.
00:11:28.78\00:11:31.05
We were afraid of him.
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You know, you never knew
when he was going to blow off
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at the handle.
00:11:33.99\00:11:35.32
There was never any consistency.
00:11:35.36\00:11:36.76
If you did what
he said to do today,
00:11:36.79\00:11:38.89
tomorrow the rules
would totally change.
00:11:38.93\00:11:40.93
So there was
never any stability.
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And that is how I viewed God.
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I saw Him as punitive,
I saw Him as arbitrary,
00:11:44.50\00:11:47.40
I saw Him as just looking,
you know, to be critical of me.
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And to, you know,
flick me in the head
00:11:50.84\00:11:52.47
if I did anything wrong.
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So I feared God, I
got that, you know.
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I knew that if I didn't do
right that I'd be punished.
00:11:57.48\00:11:59.88
And so, from the very
onset of my understanding
00:11:59.91\00:12:02.72
of who God was,
00:12:02.75\00:12:04.09
I thought it was all
based on performance.
00:12:04.12\00:12:06.25
I thought it was
all based on behaviors,
00:12:06.29\00:12:08.16
not understanding that
there was any love involved.
00:12:08.19\00:12:10.99
It's so bizarre but I
know that my dad loved me.
00:12:11.03\00:12:14.23
But I also can look
back and see, you know,
00:12:14.26\00:12:16.36
his brokenness
definitely contributed to that
00:12:16.40\00:12:18.90
like what Lance said.
00:12:18.93\00:12:20.27
But what was really sad is
that when I began a relationship
00:12:20.30\00:12:23.87
with Jesus Christ
and got baptized at 15,
00:12:23.91\00:12:26.21
I didn't have a
clue about His goodness,
00:12:26.24\00:12:28.91
or His
tenderness, or compassion.
00:12:28.94\00:12:30.58
I heard those things,
but I certainly didn't know
00:12:30.61\00:12:33.55
how to assimilate
that into the relationship.
00:12:33.58\00:12:36.75
Wow.
00:12:36.79\00:12:39.62
It's a very lonely place to
be under those circumstances.
00:12:39.65\00:12:43.39
So as you begin to recognize
00:12:43.43\00:12:45.76
what was happening
with the disassociation
00:12:45.79\00:12:48.76
with your father's
and the association
00:12:48.80\00:12:51.27
with some same sex
attraction coming about.
00:12:51.30\00:12:55.14
Did either one of
you tell your mother
00:12:55.17\00:12:57.71
that you thought you were gay,
00:12:57.74\00:12:59.11
or that you might
have same sex attraction?
00:12:59.14\00:13:01.64
Well, I waited
until my father was dead.
00:13:01.68\00:13:05.28
Really? Wow.
00:13:05.31\00:13:06.65
Yeah, I waited
until he died. Wow.
00:13:06.68\00:13:08.02
And why did you wait? Because...
00:13:08.05\00:13:10.02
And in fact, he
asked me at one point
00:13:10.05\00:13:12.69
if I was gay and I told him no.
00:13:12.72\00:13:15.26
Of course I lied
because I was already
00:13:15.29\00:13:18.36
experienced rejection
from him in the first place.
00:13:18.39\00:13:19.73
And I knew he...
00:13:19.76\00:13:21.10
Right, you didn't
want to go any further.
00:13:21.13\00:13:22.46
Right, but he didn't believe me.
00:13:22.50\00:13:23.83
He didn't believe
when I told him that.
00:13:23.87\00:13:25.20
So I lived under this
cloud of knowing that he knew.
00:13:25.23\00:13:28.84
And he would give little hints
00:13:28.87\00:13:30.31
especially after I
became a Christian, you know,
00:13:30.34\00:13:31.94
he would read stuff in the paper
00:13:31.97\00:13:34.71
about gays and stuff like that.
00:13:34.74\00:13:36.08
He'll say, you know,
00:13:36.11\00:13:37.58
"Gays are gonna go
to hell, aren't they?"
00:13:37.61\00:13:39.51
You know, he
would say that to me.
00:13:39.55\00:13:40.98
You know, and I'll say
yes, you know, just, I just...
00:13:41.02\00:13:43.18
And he didn't...
00:13:43.22\00:13:44.55
He made some derogatory remark
00:13:44.59\00:13:46.99
earlier in your
life, is that right?
00:13:47.02\00:13:48.46
Yeah, correct.
What was that, Lance?
00:13:48.49\00:13:49.86
About that my mom, you know,
got the daughter he already,
00:13:49.89\00:13:53.70
that he always
wanted, you know, so...
00:13:53.73\00:13:55.16
That's really
off-putting, isn't it?
00:13:55.20\00:13:56.63
And hurtful. Wow!
00:13:56.67\00:14:01.60
Mike, did you tell
your mom that you were gay?
00:14:01.64\00:14:04.57
Yeah, but I had to be
drunk. And I remember...
00:14:04.61\00:14:07.64
Courage. Liquid courage.
00:14:07.68\00:14:09.31
Yeah, yeah. Liquid courage.
00:14:09.34\00:14:10.68
I had just been
dumped by a boyfriend,
00:14:10.71\00:14:13.11
the first love
that I had experienced
00:14:13.15\00:14:15.48
in the gay life.
00:14:15.52\00:14:16.85
And I was incredibly,
I don't know despondent,
00:14:16.89\00:14:22.19
I was very upset
and in my drunkenness
00:14:22.22\00:14:24.93
the only person
I thought to call
00:14:24.96\00:14:26.53
that would
really be there for me
00:14:26.56\00:14:28.26
was my mom.
00:14:28.30\00:14:29.63
And we didn't have a
very great relationship
00:14:29.66\00:14:31.97
but for some reason, you know,
00:14:32.00\00:14:33.60
it had to be 1 or 2
o'clock in the morning,
00:14:33.64\00:14:36.40
I called her and I didn't
have the guts to say who it was
00:14:36.44\00:14:40.28
or what the sex
of this person was.
00:14:40.31\00:14:42.44
You know, so I was, you know,
00:14:42.48\00:14:45.01
I was just saying this person
and they broke up with me,
00:14:45.05\00:14:48.05
I'm really
hurting and, you know,
00:14:48.08\00:14:49.65
what was incredible is my
mom really rose to the occasion.
00:14:49.68\00:14:52.59
She didn't expose it
either, and she went with it,
00:14:52.62\00:14:55.86
and she comforted me,
00:14:55.89\00:14:57.23
and she gave me a lot of support
00:14:57.26\00:14:59.09
that I needed at the time.
00:14:59.13\00:15:00.46
And towards the end
of the conversation,
00:15:00.50\00:15:02.46
she said, "Well,
what's this person's name?"
00:15:02.50\00:15:04.67
And so, you know,
when it came out, you know,
00:15:04.70\00:15:06.84
there was a guy's name
or whatever, no judgment,
00:15:06.87\00:15:09.20
just love.
00:15:09.24\00:15:10.61
And that kind of
opened the door but again,
00:15:10.64\00:15:12.81
we weren't used
to being very direct
00:15:12.84\00:15:14.74
in our relationship,
00:15:14.78\00:15:16.54
you know, with my mom.
00:15:16.58\00:15:17.91
But definitely, I felt
support there when I told her.
00:15:17.95\00:15:23.52
You know, I'm
wondering if in your adolescence
00:15:23.55\00:15:27.76
and as you grew
up, you felt sort of...
00:15:27.79\00:15:30.43
Mike, I think you felt
the absence of your father
00:15:30.46\00:15:32.49
even when he was
present at times and, Lance,
00:15:32.53\00:15:35.23
said you didn't
have his presence there.
00:15:35.26\00:15:38.33
What's that like?
00:15:38.37\00:15:40.67
Do you have a kind
of an empty hopefulness
00:15:40.70\00:15:44.41
that you're wishing
that you had a father?
00:15:44.44\00:15:47.04
Did you connect at
some point in Christianity
00:15:47.08\00:15:50.48
and realize or think
that God was giving you
00:15:50.51\00:15:54.15
the presence of a father
00:15:54.18\00:15:55.68
that you never
had, was that there?
00:15:55.72\00:15:59.89
Let me tell you that, you know,
you're hitting buttons, Wayne,
00:15:59.92\00:16:02.32
with what you're saying.
00:16:02.36\00:16:03.69
I always wanted a twin brother.
00:16:03.73\00:16:05.66
I'm so envious that
you had a twin brother
00:16:05.69\00:16:08.13
and it breaks my heart
00:16:08.16\00:16:09.76
that you were so separated
from your twin brother.
00:16:09.80\00:16:12.63
I didn't want my dad.
00:16:12.67\00:16:14.10
I didn't want a dad
00:16:14.14\00:16:15.80
because the only
example that I had of,
00:16:15.84\00:16:17.97
it was so
uncomfortable, the negative,
00:16:18.01\00:16:20.74
it's like, well,
just do away with that.
00:16:20.78\00:16:22.44
But I was
desperate for a brother
00:16:22.48\00:16:24.68
and, you know what,
maybe that was something
00:16:24.71\00:16:26.55
that the Holy Spirit gave me
00:16:26.58\00:16:27.92
because Jesus wants
to be our brother, right?
00:16:27.95\00:16:30.79
And so at the early
stage, I would fantasize that
00:16:30.82\00:16:33.05
I had a twin brother somewhere,
you know, I even, you know,
00:16:33.09\00:16:36.76
speculate that maybe I
was a twin at some time,
00:16:36.79\00:16:38.86
I don't know.
00:16:38.89\00:16:40.23
But I would, you know,
have this pretend friend
00:16:40.26\00:16:42.73
that I could relate to.
00:16:42.76\00:16:44.10
I only had sisters,
so I knew that there was
00:16:44.13\00:16:45.90
a vast difference in my gender.
00:16:45.93\00:16:47.87
But I thought if
there was someone
00:16:47.90\00:16:49.87
that I had that I
could really tell who I was,
00:16:49.90\00:16:52.37
that I could be honest,
and open, and authentic with.
00:16:52.41\00:16:55.21
And so, I had this
fantasy if you would,
00:16:55.24\00:16:58.01
friend for many years.
00:16:58.05\00:16:59.55
Wow.
00:16:59.58\00:17:01.22
You know, I was fortunate that
00:17:01.25\00:17:02.65
I grew up with a
father figure there.
00:17:02.68\00:17:05.29
But I felt the absence
00:17:05.32\00:17:07.89
because of the
dysfunction in my life,
00:17:07.92\00:17:09.69
the same sex attraction.
00:17:09.72\00:17:11.09
I didn't think I was connecting
from a masculine point of view.
00:17:11.13\00:17:14.96
And recently,
Mike, I had the privilege
00:17:15.00\00:17:17.37
of introducing
you to my parents.
00:17:17.40\00:17:20.40
Powerful. It was awesome.
00:17:20.44\00:17:23.00
You made an observation
that I'd like you to share.
00:17:23.04\00:17:26.78
So here we were having
lunch with your mom and dad.
00:17:26.81\00:17:28.74
And they're incredible.
00:17:28.78\00:17:31.25
They look very naive,
00:17:31.28\00:17:33.05
they look like
down-home Kansas City
00:17:33.08\00:17:36.38
people in their 80s.
00:17:36.42\00:17:37.82
And, you know, here we had lunch
00:17:37.85\00:17:39.19
and we started talking about
the nuances of our ministry.
00:17:39.22\00:17:42.06
And they weren't
batting an eye, you know,
00:17:42.09\00:17:43.69
we are eating our Chinese
food and they're just going on.
00:17:43.73\00:17:46.09
But when we got up to leave,
00:17:46.13\00:17:48.20
their eyes were
filled with tears
00:17:48.23\00:17:50.47
over the power of God to
restore their son to them.
00:17:50.50\00:17:53.90
They prayed for you
over 40 years, right?
00:17:53.94\00:17:56.54
And so, when he went to
give his dad a hug, you know,
00:17:56.57\00:17:59.81
Wayne's about six foot
and now his dad is frail,
00:17:59.84\00:18:02.48
and he's small, and, you know,
00:18:02.51\00:18:04.41
his hair is very
thinning on top or whatever.
00:18:04.45\00:18:06.31
But his dad grabbed
him around the waist
00:18:06.35\00:18:09.82
and threw his
head into his chest,
00:18:09.85\00:18:12.29
and he hung on.
00:18:12.32\00:18:13.69
And so, Wayne was tearful,
his dad was tearful, whatever.
00:18:13.72\00:18:16.16
And after the hug, you
know, Wayne was letting go.
00:18:16.19\00:18:18.73
But your dad was hanging on.
00:18:18.76\00:18:21.46
And that impacted me
in such a profound way,
00:18:21.50\00:18:24.77
I couldn't relate to it.
00:18:24.80\00:18:26.20
All I was doing was
looking at you thinking,
00:18:26.23\00:18:28.74
I wish I could have had that.
00:18:28.77\00:18:31.07
Yeah.
00:18:31.11\00:18:34.44
I have been so privileged
00:18:34.48\00:18:37.18
because I didn't
have that relationship,
00:18:37.21\00:18:40.42
that closeness with my dad
00:18:40.45\00:18:42.88
or with my parents
until God redeemed me.
00:18:42.92\00:18:46.05
And every day now,
I thank God for them.
00:18:46.09\00:18:49.86
And I call them
and I let them know
00:18:49.89\00:18:51.63
how much I love them
and every time I see them,
00:18:51.66\00:18:54.00
there's this love connection
00:18:54.03\00:18:55.76
that I never knew
could possibly exist.
00:18:55.80\00:18:58.47
And I know that God
not only preserved me
00:18:58.50\00:19:00.74
for such a time as this,
00:19:00.77\00:19:02.17
but He's preserved
them in their years,
00:19:02.20\00:19:05.14
now my dad turns 90 this month.
00:19:05.17\00:19:07.91
Hallelujah.
00:19:07.94\00:19:09.28
And I love them
both just like crazy.
00:19:09.31\00:19:13.08
Let's talk a little bit
about this reconciliation
00:19:13.11\00:19:17.45
that has now taken place.
00:19:17.49\00:19:19.69
A reconciliation,
was the reconciliation
00:19:19.72\00:19:22.12
ever before your
father died, Mike?
00:19:22.16\00:19:27.53
I became a
Christian 12 years ago.
00:19:27.56\00:19:29.73
And my dad was
already back into the church.
00:19:29.76\00:19:33.44
He'd been married
four times in his life.
00:19:33.47\00:19:35.97
And his wife was
many years younger than me
00:19:36.00\00:19:38.04
and had a son.
00:19:38.07\00:19:39.67
So I actually had a stepbrother
that was like 13 when I was 47.
00:19:39.71\00:19:44.65
And so, I
remember that every time
00:19:44.68\00:19:47.02
I would go to
Pennsylvania to see my dad
00:19:47.05\00:19:49.82
or even my mom in Ohio
00:19:49.85\00:19:51.25
that the Holy Spirit would
say, you know, go see your dad.
00:19:51.29\00:19:53.69
And I was always
resistant, every time that,
00:19:53.72\00:19:56.83
that the Lord
would put us together,
00:19:56.86\00:19:58.26
it was always awful, always.
00:19:58.29\00:20:01.93
Like he would
stir this thing up,
00:20:01.96\00:20:03.33
it was a very competitive
relationship at best.
00:20:03.37\00:20:05.87
Even after my
father passed away,
00:20:05.90\00:20:08.10
I was talking to my mom
00:20:08.14\00:20:09.47
about how I felt
very competitive with him.
00:20:09.50\00:20:11.44
And she thought for
a minute and she said,
00:20:11.47\00:20:13.68
"You know, I remember
you were about two years old
00:20:13.71\00:20:15.54
and I remember looking
at your father and saying,
00:20:15.58\00:20:18.21
'Why are you
competing with a two year old?'"
00:20:18.25\00:20:20.32
And that was confirmation
to me that I wanted a dad,
00:20:20.35\00:20:23.28
I needed a dad.
00:20:23.32\00:20:24.65
But the competition
just kept him from me.
00:20:24.69\00:20:28.52
I didn't want to
compete with him.
00:20:28.56\00:20:29.89
I wanted to love him.
00:20:29.92\00:20:31.26
I wanted him to love me
00:20:31.29\00:20:32.63
and I think
every child has that.
00:20:32.66\00:20:34.06
So every time I
will go see my dad,
00:20:34.10\00:20:35.80
something awful always.
00:20:35.83\00:20:37.27
And that was a driving force,
00:20:37.30\00:20:39.13
it destroyed my masculinity,
00:20:39.17\00:20:41.34
it destroyed any
foundation of anything
00:20:41.37\00:20:44.54
that I had with him.
00:20:44.57\00:20:45.91
All it did was
affirmed that I was worthless,
00:20:45.94\00:20:47.64
that I wasn't a man,
00:20:47.68\00:20:49.01
and it drove me
straight to a dirty bookstore.
00:20:49.04\00:20:50.75
And I would buy, you
know, a couple magazines,
00:20:50.78\00:20:53.95
and do this evil thing,
and just throw the books away.
00:20:53.98\00:20:57.72
And it was
like, I couldn't help,
00:20:57.75\00:20:59.85
it was like this
driving force for me.
00:20:59.89\00:21:02.02
And so the very last
time that I ever saw my dad,
00:21:02.06\00:21:04.13
I was going to up north again.
00:21:04.16\00:21:06.70
And the Holy Spirit
said, "Go see your dad."
00:21:06.73\00:21:08.83
I'm like, oh, no.
00:21:08.86\00:21:10.20
And the Holy
Spirit pled with me,
00:21:10.23\00:21:11.57
it said, "No, Mike,
00:21:11.60\00:21:12.93
I really want
you to see your dad."
00:21:12.97\00:21:14.30
And I thought, okay,
maybe like the other times
00:21:14.34\00:21:16.10
that the Holy Spirit
know something I don't,
00:21:16.14\00:21:17.97
maybe finally
we're going to reconcile.
00:21:18.01\00:21:20.18
We're both in the church.
00:21:20.21\00:21:21.54
I was an elder in my church.
00:21:21.58\00:21:22.91
He was a head
elder in his church.
00:21:22.94\00:21:24.85
I went to his
church, he did the sermon,
00:21:24.88\00:21:26.55
he taught the
Sabbath School lesson,
00:21:26.58\00:21:28.25
and they had a potluck meal.
00:21:28.28\00:21:30.72
So I'm sitting next to my nephew
00:21:30.75\00:21:32.35
and my stepbrother.
00:21:32.39\00:21:33.82
And we're doing the
tickle game after we ate dinner.
00:21:33.86\00:21:35.82
The room is full of
all my dad's church members
00:21:35.86\00:21:38.39
and we're tickling.
00:21:38.43\00:21:39.76
And so my dad walks behind me
00:21:39.79\00:21:41.86
and he's trying
to help them out.
00:21:41.90\00:21:43.23
But, you know, I'm in my 40s,
I'm not that ticklish anymore.
00:21:43.26\00:21:46.00
So he reaches down
to try to tickle me.
00:21:46.03\00:21:47.44
It didn't work and I thought
great dad's playing, right?
00:21:47.47\00:21:49.47
So I turn around,
00:21:49.50\00:21:50.84
he's standing behind
me and I grabbed his knee,
00:21:50.87\00:21:52.57
and he jerked his knee
back, and just like the ex-cop,
00:21:52.61\00:21:56.41
you know, the ex-Navy, you
know, person or whatever...
00:21:56.44\00:21:59.28
Again, the whole
competitive relationship,
00:21:59.31\00:22:03.52
he came down with his
fists so hard on my head.
00:22:03.55\00:22:06.76
And I'm just
sitting in the chair,
00:22:06.79\00:22:08.12
and it was so out of
character, and out of line,
00:22:08.16\00:22:10.46
and inappropriate in.
00:22:10.49\00:22:11.83
And the crushing blow
didn't hurt near as much
00:22:11.86\00:22:14.53
as the
embarrassment, the humiliation.
00:22:14.56\00:22:17.17
And I sat there, and I got up,
00:22:17.20\00:22:19.70
I walked out to
my car and I said,
00:22:19.73\00:22:21.67
"Are You happy, God?
00:22:21.70\00:22:23.07
I did just what You
said, I came, are You happy?
00:22:23.10\00:22:25.57
Now, I've got this
to work through again."
00:22:25.61\00:22:27.94
And it took a few months.
00:22:27.98\00:22:29.68
And after a couple of months,
00:22:29.71\00:22:31.05
I was able to
forgive my dad again,
00:22:31.08\00:22:32.45
recognizing that he's broken.
00:22:32.48\00:22:34.08
God took me
through all the steps.
00:22:34.12\00:22:35.88
And when my
sister Laura came to me
00:22:35.92\00:22:38.05
that Sabbath
afternoon and told me
00:22:38.09\00:22:39.95
that my dad had died,
00:22:39.99\00:22:42.12
I was holding on to her
and she was somewhat tearful.
00:22:42.16\00:22:45.26
And I was looking at
this beautiful blue sky
00:22:45.29\00:22:47.06
and I remember the Holy
Spirit conforming to me saying
00:22:47.10\00:22:50.80
"See, Mike,
that's why I had you see
00:22:50.83\00:22:52.57
your dad all those times."
00:22:52.60\00:22:54.04
He hoped for reconciliation
to the Holy Spirit.
00:22:54.07\00:22:56.91
But even though I
didn't get that confirmation,
00:22:56.94\00:22:59.27
God was letting me know
00:22:59.31\00:23:00.64
that I did what He
was asking me to do.
00:23:00.68\00:23:02.41
I had no more
history or feelings of regret
00:23:02.44\00:23:07.12
or remorse
about what I didn't do
00:23:07.15\00:23:09.12
because I obeyed
my Heavenly Father.
00:23:09.15\00:23:11.59
Incredibly, three months
before I had gone to see my dad
00:23:11.62\00:23:15.42
for the first time walking
as a Christian for seven years.
00:23:15.46\00:23:18.53
I read the verse again in John
00:23:18.56\00:23:20.03
that says Jesus was
telling the disciples,
00:23:20.06\00:23:22.76
"If you've seen Me,
you've seen the Father."
00:23:22.80\00:23:25.53
And, you know, for
seven years it took walking
00:23:25.57\00:23:27.64
with Jesus Christ day by day,
00:23:27.67\00:23:29.60
learning to trust
a man, my brother,
00:23:29.64\00:23:31.47
the brother I always wanted.
00:23:31.51\00:23:33.17
And as I started
walking legitimately
00:23:33.21\00:23:35.04
with Jesus Christ,
00:23:35.08\00:23:36.41
He brought around
this healing for me.
00:23:36.44\00:23:37.91
I realized that
I could trust Him.
00:23:37.95\00:23:40.28
And as I built
that relationship,
00:23:40.32\00:23:41.65
finally after seven years,
00:23:41.68\00:23:43.22
my Heavenly
Father said to Jesus,
00:23:43.25\00:23:46.12
"Now you can
introduce me to my son."
00:23:46.15\00:23:48.62
And it was so
profound when I realized
00:23:48.66\00:23:50.36
that the goodness
that my Savior was,
00:23:50.39\00:23:52.59
the tenderness and
compassion that He had
00:23:52.63\00:23:54.76
was the same tenderness
00:23:54.80\00:23:56.26
and compassion that
my Heavenly Father had.
00:23:56.30\00:23:58.57
And so God introduced Himself
to me before my dad died,
00:23:58.60\00:24:03.00
so that I would be confirmed
that I am not an orphan.
00:24:03.04\00:24:06.34
Wow. What an awesome revelation.
00:24:06.37\00:24:09.68
That's
incredible. God is incredible.
00:24:09.71\00:24:11.51
Lance, what's your relationship
like with your father today?
00:24:11.55\00:24:15.32
Well, my father died
when he was 55 years old.
00:24:15.35\00:24:18.05
I know that.
00:24:18.09\00:24:19.42
And so, I never was
able to reconcile with him.
00:24:19.45\00:24:20.79
And I remember when he died
00:24:20.82\00:24:22.39
and there was no emotion for me.
00:24:22.42\00:24:24.33
But what happened was I remember
00:24:24.36\00:24:25.96
being by myself maybe years
00:24:25.99\00:24:28.03
after that and
just thinking about him,
00:24:28.06\00:24:29.86
and I just cried out his name,
and just started really crying.
00:24:29.90\00:24:33.23
You know, Lance,
00:24:33.27\00:24:34.60
what I'm really alluding to here
00:24:34.64\00:24:36.50
when I asked you
about your father?
00:24:36.54\00:24:37.97
What's that? About
your Heavenly Father.
00:24:38.01\00:24:41.74
Can you tell me
about your relationship
00:24:41.78\00:24:43.58
with your father today?
00:24:43.61\00:24:45.45
I can really say that,
00:24:45.48\00:24:46.82
you know, there's a
verse about it that says,
00:24:46.85\00:24:48.18
"When my mother
and father forsake me,
00:24:48.22\00:24:49.55
the Lord will take me up."
00:24:49.58\00:24:50.92
And He has truly
been not only my father
00:24:50.95\00:24:52.35
but my mother as well,
00:24:52.39\00:24:53.72
because remember my
mother work 16 hours a day.
00:24:53.76\00:24:56.62
So she wasn't there to
take care of us as well.
00:24:56.66\00:24:59.06
So I didn't get
love from either one.
00:24:59.09\00:25:02.06
So you've been walking
with God for some time now.
00:25:02.10\00:25:05.77
Oh, yes.
00:25:05.80\00:25:07.14
It took a long time
for me to really trust Him
00:25:07.17\00:25:09.24
because I saw Him
as I saw my father
00:25:09.27\00:25:11.74
and my mother,
abandonment, not trusting.
00:25:11.77\00:25:15.21
When I do something wrong,
I felt that he would just,
00:25:15.24\00:25:17.58
was distant from me.
00:25:17.61\00:25:19.28
But I'm realizing
that's not true at all,
00:25:19.31\00:25:21.62
He loves me even more.
00:25:21.65\00:25:22.98
So your intimacy
is growing, isn't it?
00:25:23.02\00:25:24.72
Oh, yes.
00:25:24.75\00:25:26.12
And show me what
does that look like?
00:25:26.15\00:25:29.36
Oh, man.
00:25:29.39\00:25:30.73
I mean I can just
read stuff from the Bible
00:25:30.76\00:25:32.79
like there's a
verse in Psalm 107: 20,
00:25:32.83\00:25:35.80
it says, "He sent His
Word and healed them."
00:25:35.83\00:25:38.77
And I just love
that, His Word just,
00:25:38.80\00:25:40.34
it just causes something
in me to just want to weep
00:25:40.37\00:25:42.50
because it's just so beautiful.
00:25:42.54\00:25:44.57
And I see that's
speaking to me, you know.
00:25:44.61\00:25:46.94
So... Yes.
00:25:46.98\00:25:48.31
You know, in the Book of Joel
00:25:48.34\00:25:49.68
that says that God promises
to restore what the locust ate.
00:25:49.71\00:25:53.18
And I really think of
your situation, Lance,
00:25:53.21\00:25:55.72
I don't know how it would
have come out of your situation
00:25:55.75\00:25:57.75
but God truly does start to heal
00:25:57.79\00:25:59.99
the wounds and to
restore everything
00:26:00.02\00:26:01.99
that's been taken away from us.
00:26:02.02\00:26:04.46
You know,
there's reconciliation,
00:26:04.49\00:26:07.76
and there's healing,
00:26:07.80\00:26:09.13
and I think that there's so much
00:26:09.16\00:26:10.50
to be said about the brokenness
00:26:10.53\00:26:13.10
that we arrived with.
00:26:13.13\00:26:16.81
You know, we all come
out of situations in life.
00:26:16.84\00:26:20.61
There are so many viewers here
00:26:20.64\00:26:22.01
that I know that are
watching and thinking about,
00:26:22.04\00:26:24.71
you know, "I didn't have a
relationship with my father,
00:26:24.75\00:26:27.62
I didn't have a father."
00:26:27.65\00:26:28.98
And so how does that translate
00:26:29.02\00:26:31.15
when you're trying to
get to know somebody you
00:26:31.19\00:26:33.15
can't even see.
00:26:33.19\00:26:34.89
But God will reveal Himself
if we'll go to the Word of God,
00:26:34.92\00:26:40.26
if we'll just begin to
find out more about Him
00:26:40.30\00:26:44.30
by reading His Word and pray
00:26:44.33\00:26:46.37
and ask for Him to
make His presence known.
00:26:46.40\00:26:48.94
And He also reveals
Himself through other people.
00:26:48.97\00:26:50.87
Absolutely.
00:26:50.91\00:26:52.24
You know, in the book,
Steps to Christ, it says,
00:26:52.27\00:26:53.61
"Through the deepest,
tenderest earthly ties
00:26:53.64\00:26:54.98
that human hearts
can know God seeks
00:26:55.01\00:26:56.34
to reveal Himself."
00:26:56.38\00:26:57.71
That's right. Amen.
00:26:57.75\00:26:59.65
Wow, what a powerful testimony
both of you have given today.
00:26:59.68\00:27:03.82
And I've really
appreciated looking at this,
00:27:03.85\00:27:08.52
not having a father but knowing
that we do have a father.
00:27:08.56\00:27:12.63
And if as a viewer
you have been sitting here
00:27:12.66\00:27:15.73
and thinking about,
00:27:15.76\00:27:17.10
"Wow, I've been
missing that male figure,
00:27:17.13\00:27:18.73
that father figure."
00:27:18.77\00:27:20.20
I invite you to engage
with the church community.
00:27:20.24\00:27:22.94
Try the Seventh-day
Adventist Church Community.
00:27:22.97\00:27:26.21
And I think you'll
find that not only will you
00:27:26.24\00:27:28.44
find your Heavenly Father there,
00:27:28.48\00:27:30.21
but you're able to find
00:27:30.25\00:27:31.58
the reflection
of God's true love
00:27:31.61\00:27:34.32
through those who are attending
these church congregations.
00:27:34.35\00:27:38.39
Thank you for joining
us today on Pure Choices.
00:27:38.42\00:27:41.52
And we've been so privileged
00:27:41.56\00:27:43.02
to share our
testimony here today.
00:27:43.06\00:27:45.59
And I invite you to
continue to make pure choices.
00:27:45.63\00:27:50.47
Thanks for
joining us. God bless you.
00:27:50.50\00:27:52.77