The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Hi, I'm Mike Carducci
with Coming Out Ministries
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your house
today on Pure Choices.
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With me my guest
is Lance Williams.
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Thank you.
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Hey, Lance, how
are you? I'm fine.
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Excellent.
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Lance and I've known
each other since 2005
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and yet this is
actually just our second time
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of being in each others company.
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So, Lance, I want
to thank you for coming
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all the way from
Georgia to speak with us today.
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Lance, the
reason why you're here
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is Coming Out Ministries
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we-- we have a ministry about
coming out of homosexuality
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and I remember that
somebody had asked me
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if they could give
you my phone number
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and we never met
and we started talking
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on the phone back in 2005.
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And so what I want to do is
basically give our listeners,
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you know, your testimony
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and to be able to
walk through some of the,
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the journey that
God has brought you on.
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All right, so
let's start basically
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at the beginning of you.
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Give me a little bit history.
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Well, I was born into
a home that was broken.
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My mom and my dad were drinkers
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and I grew up a
sensitive introverted child
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and it seemed to me that
my father was very distant
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and I just-- for something
I feared him a whole lot.
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And I just didn't want
anything to do with him
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and it started
at a very early age
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I don't know why
that's all I remember
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that I just for some
reason I did not like it.
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I did not like to be around him.
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Were you an only child, Lance?
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No, I'm the youngest of three.
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Youngest of three.
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Okay, so, you
know, there's something,
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you know, that
I want to touch on
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the fact that you're twin right.
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Yes, it's correct. Okay.
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So you have an interesting story
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about when your
mother was giving birth
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about that could you tell
us a little bit about that
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and actually if you
would start with in vitro
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like why your
mother was pregnant.
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Yes, my mom
while she was pregnant
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she was telling me
that while she was pregnant
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my father she he
wasn't hardly around and--
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Where was your dad?
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He would be out
drinking and doing something.
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When he would get paid
he just would do something
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with the money and she didn't
even know what he was doing.
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And what was happening was
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she would be
depressed a lot and hungry.
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And when by the
time she gave birth to me
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by her being in
that state it seemed like
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I was born with a lot
depression and sensitivity.
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Okay, so who was born
first, you or your brother?
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My brother was born
first and they didn't know
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that was in my mother's womb.
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So your brother is
born and they're thinking
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that they're done
and this is the baby.
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So how did they find you?
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I don't know how
they found I was in there.
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I just knew I was in there.
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I was scrunched
up way in her back.
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Right. Right.
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Well, that's powerful.
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So what was your relationship
like with your brother?
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I really didn't
have any relationship
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really with either my family
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because I was
just so introverted
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and so much into
myself my own world
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that I just
didn't really associate
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too much with anybody.
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Why do you think
that you were so isolated?
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You know, here you
have a mother and father
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and I guess I can understand
that if they're alcoholics
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and I can see where
you would be, you know,
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to yourself but you
had an older brother
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and then a twin
brother and you think that,
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you know, most when brothers
are very tight, you know.
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I think there was just a lot of
the drama going on in the home
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and I didn't know how to handle.
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I was just so fearful.
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I was just a very
fearful sense of child
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and my brothers they
would just argue and stuff a lot
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and I will just
observe what they were doing.
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But for some reason I
was just introspective.
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Did they pick on
you? No, not really.
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Your brothers? No.
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Wow, I mean they
really just left you alone?
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They just, yeah. Interesting.
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What was that song that you
were telling me about earlier?
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How does that go?
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This house is full of
people but nobody's home.
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Wow. Wow.
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So that really
describes your childhood.
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Yeah, exactly.
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You know, a lot a
detached kind of things
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between your
mother and your father
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and even your brother.
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So imagine to have
a houseful of people
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and yet to still
feel absolutely alone.
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Yes. I just didn't
understand my world.
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You know, I didn't understand
people around me is just--
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I didn't know how
to explain it, Mike,
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but it's like I was just
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in a totally
different environment,
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a different world.
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Just like it, I was by
myself or something, you know.
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Okay, so, Lance, I
know that, you know,
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we're gonna go right to
the first sexual experience
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that you had
because it seems like
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it was relatively
early in your childhood.
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Can you tell me about that? Yes.
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We were always told
not to go down the street.
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My grandmother
lived across street
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but she never really watched us.
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So where was your mom and dad
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while your
grandma was watching you?
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Well-- when I was
at very young age,
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when we were very
young age my father left us
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and my mom she
worked 16 hours a day
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so there was no one
really to take care of us
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so we were just by ourselves.
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And so what had happened was,
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that she would
tell us to stay home,
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don't go anywhere or anything
but this need for just--
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I had this, I
didn't know what it was
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but I had this need to just
have some type of male intimacy
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and affection, you know, just
wanting around love, you know.
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And I was going down the street
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and there was this
older boy down the street
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that I went to school with.
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But he was--
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Yeah, how old
were you at this time?
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I would say about 10,
about 10-years-old, yeah.
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All right.
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And I went to just get,
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just have some
fellowship, you know.
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I didn't think about, you know,
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at this time I didn't
even think about sex at all.
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I just wanted some,
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I had this need
for just fellowship,
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you know, friendship
and everything, you know.
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And while I was
with him all of a sudden
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he just uncovered himself
and I was so shocked about it
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that I just, I just
ran out of the house.
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And so what happened?
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Was that the only time
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that that you had
been sexually abused?
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That was the first time. Okay.
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The second time was when,
well what had happened was
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because he done
that I was curious.
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I think mostly would get curious
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especially if
they had any intimacy
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or love from anyone.
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So end up going back
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and so then he
started touching me
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and he told me to follow
what he was doing with him.
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And so that lead to
one thing to another
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and I getting pulled into
this thing I didn't understand.
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Right, and I think
for a 10-year-old child,
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you know, there is
already a deficit in your home
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and we know that according
to Proverbs 27:7 it talks about,
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you know, the man
who just ate a big meal,
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you know,
dessert is undesirable.
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But to somebody
who's starving, Lance,
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even something
bitter can taste sweet.
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And so you
identify that you needed
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and you were searching
for some male attention.
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You weren't getting
it from your father,
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he'd abandoned you.
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You brothers ostracized you.
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Mother wasn't at home
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and so here you were
living in a house full of people
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and yet isolated and alone.
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I can understand it.
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We know that it
doesn't make it right
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but it certainly
makes it understandable
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that this boy gave you attention
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and even though it
was the wrong attention.
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Bad attention is still
better than no attention at all.
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Correct. That's
right. All right.
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So I can still see
how you were the victim
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in all of this even
though at, you know,
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at a very young age you may
have taken responsibility for,
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you know, I
shouldn't have done that.
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Why I can't believe
that I'm going back again?
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So I really hope
that helps to understand
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you're not
responsible for being molested
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that was what was done to you
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even though you had
a curiosity about it.
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So when did you
move in with your father?
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Well, right when
and praise the Lord,
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right when this
started to become a habit
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going over there
to see this person
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our father came and got us.
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He wanted us. He wanted us.
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And but the problem was
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as we were
driving to his house--
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So this is a day
you leave your mom,
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you're in the car
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and you're on your
way your dads house
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and you're with his
girlfriend and her son.
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Her son, that's right. Okay.
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And he was sane
something like, you know,
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no son of mine
is gonna be a sissy.
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Who was he talking about?
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He was talking about me.
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And was that
apparent in the car?
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Everybody knew?
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Everybody was in
the car, you know,
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and
unfortunately some of who was
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hearing this very intently
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was on the son of this
woman that he was going with.
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Right. Was he
living with her? Yes.
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Okay. Were your
parents Christian at all?
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No. Okay, all right.
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Because I think that's
important to know also.
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So what happened
when you got home?
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So at this time, you know,
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my father's girlfriend's
son he start to seduce me.
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How old was he?
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Probably about-- I think
about 11. Probably about 11.
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All right. And you are 10.
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Yes. All right.
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And so how did that-- what
did that leave you with, Lance?
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You know, here you've
been molested by a child
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in the neighborhood
and now all the sudden,
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you know, this
kid picks up on you,
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more rejection from your
father and exposure, you know,
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to your brothers and then
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your dad's
girlfriend's, you know,
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son who's living with
you and now he's abusing you?
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Where do that leave you?
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It just, it
caused me to get on this
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pattern of start
homosexual desires, you know.
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Does that include
masturbation? Yes.
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Okay. So that's
when it started for you?
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Yes. All right.
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So, so let's take it
now, you're about 15-years-old
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and your dad starts this thing
00:10:01.00\00:10:02.56
where he's taking
you to bars, right?
00:10:02.60\00:10:04.90
So can you develop
that a little bit for me
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because that's really
difficult for me to understand?
00:10:06.50\00:10:08.50
Yeah, he would take me
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and my brothers
to this bar and--
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During the day, at night?
00:10:12.97\00:10:14.44
During the evening. Okay.
00:10:14.48\00:10:15.81
And one evening we
went there I met this guy
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who was a DJ and we
became very, very close friends.
00:10:19.48\00:10:23.28
And for some reason I knew that
00:10:23.32\00:10:24.65
what I was going
through inside of me was wrong.
00:10:24.69\00:10:27.46
I knew it was wrong.
00:10:27.49\00:10:28.82
But you weren't
Christian you said.
00:10:28.86\00:10:30.19
No.
00:10:30.23\00:10:31.56
But there was something about it
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that you felt was wrong?
00:10:32.96\00:10:34.30
Correct. That's
right. All right.
00:10:34.33\00:10:35.66
And I cried out to this person
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since we got real close
I felt I could trust him.
00:10:38.33\00:10:41.24
But when I cried out to him
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he took advantage
of that and then he--
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Also started molesting you. Yes.
00:10:45.31\00:10:46.64
Any feelings for him,
because it 15, you know--
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There was an
emotional attachment.
00:10:50.08\00:10:51.41
An emotional attachment, okay.
00:10:51.45\00:10:52.78
Not a crush? No.
00:10:52.81\00:10:54.15
All right. All right.
00:10:54.18\00:10:55.52
So it wasn't
necessarily a relationship
00:10:55.55\00:10:58.52
it was still an
abusive situation?
00:10:58.55\00:11:00.86
Correct. Okay.
00:11:00.89\00:11:02.86
So what's
interesting is then you ended up
00:11:02.89\00:11:04.66
moving back with your mother
00:11:04.69\00:11:06.16
and then this cycle
even seems too deepen.
00:11:06.19\00:11:08.90
This story keeps going,
00:11:08.93\00:11:10.57
you know, down,
down, down, right.
00:11:10.60\00:11:12.03
So tell me what happened then
00:11:12.07\00:11:13.40
when you moved
back to mothers house?
00:11:13.44\00:11:14.94
And did your
brothers come with you
00:11:14.97\00:11:16.30
or was it just you?
00:11:16.34\00:11:17.67
It was just me.
00:11:17.71\00:11:19.04
And they stayed with my father
00:11:19.07\00:11:20.41
and I go back there
and come to find out my mom
00:11:20.44\00:11:24.05
had a sexual addiction.
00:11:24.08\00:11:25.48
And she had porn,
she had porn in the house
00:11:25.51\00:11:29.68
and I found it and I
would start looking at it.
00:11:29.72\00:11:31.99
All right.
00:11:32.02\00:11:33.49
So, Lance, I want to
really point this out
00:11:33.52\00:11:36.46
because we have missed this.
00:11:36.49\00:11:37.99
When you were little boy
your dad said something again
00:11:38.03\00:11:41.03
that was totally
emasculating to you
00:11:41.06\00:11:43.26
and he said it to your mother.
00:11:43.30\00:11:44.63
What was that
comment that he made?
00:11:44.67\00:11:47.00
Yes, it was really a shock to me
00:11:47.04\00:11:48.47
because my mom told me about it.
00:11:48.50\00:11:50.64
She said I was standing
next to her and he said,
00:11:50.67\00:11:54.98
"Well you got the
daughter you always wanted."
00:11:55.01\00:11:56.78
Okay. All right.
00:11:56.81\00:11:58.15
So again, you know,
setting up more distance,
00:11:58.18\00:12:00.42
you know, more of a
wall between masculinity
00:12:00.45\00:12:03.12
and yourself.
00:12:03.15\00:12:05.49
So while you're at your moms,
00:12:05.52\00:12:07.12
you know, you end
up finishing school.
00:12:07.16\00:12:09.62
What's amazing is your
mom just up and goes to Alaska
00:12:09.66\00:12:12.33
because they're paying
people to move to Alaska
00:12:12.36\00:12:15.66
and now you're left,
you know, home alone right?
00:12:15.70\00:12:19.07
So you started
working at McDonald's
00:12:19.10\00:12:20.87
and this is I
think just incredible
00:12:20.90\00:12:23.64
how God is able to, you
know, reach down no matter
00:12:23.67\00:12:26.94
how far we've gone
and tell me what happened?
00:12:26.98\00:12:29.84
Well my mom goes to Alaska
00:12:29.88\00:12:31.21
and so obviously I have
to go live with my father.
00:12:31.25\00:12:33.92
But I did not want
to live with my father.
00:12:33.95\00:12:35.98
We just could not get along
00:12:36.02\00:12:37.35
and so I ended up
living with my cousin.
00:12:37.39\00:12:38.72
Your cousin.
00:12:38.75\00:12:40.09
And so I got a job at McDonald's
00:12:40.12\00:12:41.46
and start working at McDonald's.
00:12:41.49\00:12:42.82
Yeah.
00:12:42.86\00:12:44.19
And here I am a
just very depressed
00:12:44.23\00:12:45.56
and start this
like, like I said started
00:12:45.59\00:12:46.93
this masturbation cycle
and this homosexual desires.
00:12:46.96\00:12:50.43
Was very much a loner,
00:12:50.47\00:12:52.03
very, very depressed and
down and just felt hopeless.
00:12:52.07\00:12:55.94
Right. And what were
your feelings about yourself?
00:12:55.97\00:12:57.84
How did you feel yourself?
00:12:57.87\00:12:59.87
Just no self worth at all.
00:12:59.91\00:13:01.41
Okay. None whatsoever just.
00:13:01.44\00:13:04.05
So I want you to tell
the audience about this man
00:13:04.08\00:13:07.82
that you work
with in McDonald's.
00:13:07.85\00:13:09.52
Yeah.
00:13:09.55\00:13:10.89
He was someone I
trained on fries at McDonald's
00:13:10.92\00:13:12.42
and he also he
became a Christian.
00:13:12.45\00:13:16.89
And I was surprised at that
00:13:16.93\00:13:18.99
and he just glowed with
just peace and happiness.
00:13:19.03\00:13:21.93
Talk to me about that.
00:13:21.96\00:13:23.30
And I just looked
at him and I was like,
00:13:23.33\00:13:24.67
I was so shocked at
the way he was acting.
00:13:24.70\00:13:26.33
He would smile all
the time everything.
00:13:26.37\00:13:28.10
And so I looked him
and I said I envy you.
00:13:28.14\00:13:31.07
I really envy you.
00:13:31.11\00:13:32.44
He said, well you
can be just like me.
00:13:32.47\00:13:33.81
You know, just follow me,
you know, just start, you know,
00:13:33.84\00:13:36.71
hanging out with me and
stuff and I start doing that.
00:13:36.75\00:13:38.98
So what I find
incredible is just
00:13:39.01\00:13:40.42
how the Holy
Spirit can reach anybody.
00:13:40.45\00:13:42.58
And what you saw was
something that you desired,
00:13:42.62\00:13:45.35
something that you saw worthy
in somebody and I believe that
00:13:45.39\00:13:48.39
that was the innate
thing that we are all given.
00:13:48.42\00:13:50.33
Because, you know, God says that
00:13:50.36\00:13:51.79
"Before you were
formed in your mother's womb
00:13:51.83\00:13:54.00
I knew you, right."
00:13:54.03\00:13:55.36
So this was I
believe an affirmation
00:13:55.40\00:13:57.07
you're finally
recognizing something in him
00:13:57.10\00:13:59.67
that that was pulling you.
00:13:59.70\00:14:01.30
All right and so
what happened then as you,
00:14:01.34\00:14:03.34
as you got to know
this man that you trained?
00:14:03.37\00:14:06.17
Well he invite me to church
00:14:06.21\00:14:08.14
but I didn't really
have any clothes or anything
00:14:08.18\00:14:09.71
so I felt kind of self-conscious
00:14:09.74\00:14:11.08
about going to church
without the right clothes.
00:14:11.11\00:14:12.58
I didn't go. All right.
00:14:12.61\00:14:13.95
But he invited
me to a Bible study
00:14:13.98\00:14:15.32
and that's when I
just fell in love.
00:14:15.35\00:14:16.69
I fell in love.
00:14:16.72\00:14:18.05
I fell in love with the church.
00:14:18.09\00:14:19.42
I'm in love with its
teachings and found out
00:14:19.45\00:14:22.66
that the church is
right around the block
00:14:22.69\00:14:24.03
from where I lived
I didn't even realize
00:14:24.06\00:14:25.66
that the church
that he was going to.
00:14:25.69\00:14:27.46
So is that when you
began a relationship
00:14:27.50\00:14:29.10
with Jesus Christ?
00:14:29.13\00:14:30.47
Yes. Yes. Okay, all right.
00:14:30.50\00:14:32.23
So not being
raised as a Christian,
00:14:32.27\00:14:35.00
what is your
understanding about biblical,
00:14:35.04\00:14:39.87
you know, the Word of God
00:14:39.91\00:14:42.28
about
homosexuality and masturbation?
00:14:42.31\00:14:46.72
I don't know this for
some reason deep inside
00:14:46.75\00:14:49.18
like we were saying
before I just, I just--
00:14:49.22\00:14:51.15
there was
something wrong about it.
00:14:51.19\00:14:52.72
And then as I
started studying the Bible
00:14:52.75\00:14:54.56
I realize that for sure
00:14:54.59\00:14:56.06
that Bible
substantiated my convictions
00:14:56.09\00:14:58.19
and it was totally wrong.
00:14:58.23\00:14:59.56
Okay. Wow, okay.
00:14:59.59\00:15:00.93
So now next what happens?
00:15:00.96\00:15:02.43
You're a vegan chef
and an incredible cook
00:15:02.46\00:15:06.63
and so the next thing
that happens is now you're,
00:15:06.67\00:15:10.67
you're steeped in the
church, you're searching for God
00:15:10.71\00:15:13.71
and how's it going
with the homosexual feelings
00:15:13.74\00:15:16.64
and that masturbation?
00:15:16.68\00:15:18.01
Well, for a while, you
know, everything was abated,
00:15:18.05\00:15:19.75
you know, and I was just
enjoying this life in Christ
00:15:19.78\00:15:23.05
but then all these things
are flooding right back in.
00:15:23.08\00:15:25.49
I think one of
reasons why, Mike, is because
00:15:25.52\00:15:27.92
I think some
people can relate to this.
00:15:27.96\00:15:30.09
A lot of times we stay alive
00:15:30.13\00:15:31.46
but I came in
because I was so excited
00:15:31.49\00:15:33.09
about Daniel and
Revelation specifically.
00:15:33.13\00:15:35.86
But we don't, we don't really
delve into the love of Christ.
00:15:35.90\00:15:39.67
I think we should do that first
00:15:39.70\00:15:41.67
and really have a steps
relationship with Christ.
00:15:41.70\00:15:44.37
Right. Very good.
00:15:44.41\00:15:45.91
All right, so, Lance, I want
to jump forward a little bit
00:15:45.94\00:15:48.24
and because we have so
much more to get in right now
00:15:48.28\00:15:51.01
tell me about your relationship
with this woman that you met.
00:15:51.05\00:15:54.68
Oh, wow. Yeah.
00:15:54.72\00:15:57.19
She really liked me.
00:15:57.22\00:15:58.79
I like her too.
00:15:58.82\00:16:00.16
And so we started having
a relationship as far as--
00:16:00.19\00:16:03.39
How did you connect?
00:16:03.43\00:16:05.29
We connect from I worked
00:16:05.33\00:16:08.76
as a chef in Seattle, Washington
00:16:08.80\00:16:11.20
and we met there
00:16:11.23\00:16:12.57
and she knew a little
bit about my background.
00:16:12.60\00:16:15.90
What do you mean?
00:16:15.94\00:16:17.27
As far as my background
00:16:17.31\00:16:18.64
is as struggling
with homosexuality.
00:16:18.67\00:16:20.68
Thank you. Okay. Okay.
00:16:20.71\00:16:22.24
And she also came
with her own struggles?
00:16:22.28\00:16:25.41
I found out later that
she was abused by her brother,
00:16:25.45\00:16:28.38
sexually abused by her brother.
00:16:28.42\00:16:29.75
So what happened
to this relationship?
00:16:29.78\00:16:31.19
Well, we end up getting married.
00:16:31.22\00:16:32.55
Where you in love?
00:16:32.59\00:16:34.26
I was not in love and I
think it was a big mistake
00:16:34.29\00:16:37.83
for marrying someone
who I wasn't in love with.
00:16:37.86\00:16:41.20
A lot of people would ask me
00:16:41.23\00:16:42.56
"Why and where did you
marry this person, you know."
00:16:42.60\00:16:44.23
And I think one reasons was
I was trying to please my mom
00:16:44.27\00:16:47.90
and also I felt
pressured into the relationship.
00:16:47.94\00:16:50.84
I was trying to get
out of the relationship
00:16:50.87\00:16:52.21
but then her friends would
top back into the relationship.
00:16:52.24\00:16:55.01
Wow. Yeah.
00:16:55.04\00:16:56.38
So again I believe that even
00:16:56.41\00:16:57.75
because your self-esteem
was so low, had no value.
00:16:57.78\00:17:01.15
I can see where, you
know, like well, you know,
00:17:01.18\00:17:03.62
okay I'm not doing anything else
00:17:03.65\00:17:05.62
and there was a mutual thing.
00:17:05.65\00:17:06.99
You both were afraid
of the sexual relationship
00:17:07.02\00:17:09.76
and so she came from brokenness
you came from brokenness.
00:17:09.79\00:17:12.99
I can see where it might appear
00:17:13.03\00:17:14.60
that, hey, this is
a good combination.
00:17:14.63\00:17:17.03
Well, what happened
once you got married?
00:17:17.07\00:17:19.20
Feelings changed. Oh, yeah.
00:17:19.23\00:17:20.87
I mean,
immediately as I got married
00:17:20.90\00:17:22.24
I knew I made a bad mistake.
00:17:22.27\00:17:23.84
But for her?
00:17:23.87\00:17:25.51
For her I mean,
she, she was denying
00:17:25.54\00:17:28.58
what was really going on
00:17:28.61\00:17:29.94
and she was really trying
to hold the marriage together
00:17:29.98\00:17:33.05
but I was wanting out. I
felt like a caged animal.
00:17:33.08\00:17:35.22
Right, because she now
had fallen in love with you
00:17:35.25\00:17:38.45
and now she wanted
the full expression
00:17:38.49\00:17:40.69
of what the marriage
was. That's exactly right.
00:17:40.72\00:17:42.06
And so for you that
created a lot of pressure.
00:17:42.09\00:17:44.63
And what was that like?
00:17:44.66\00:17:45.99
How did it
manifest this pressure?
00:17:46.03\00:17:47.86
What were you
feeling at the time?
00:17:47.90\00:17:49.53
Well, the pressure would
manifest itself in just yelling
00:17:49.56\00:17:51.73
and screaming at
her and just being alone
00:17:51.77\00:17:55.40
and then and my obsession
with pornography deepen.
00:17:55.44\00:17:58.57
Okay.
00:17:58.61\00:17:59.94
And you had a
homosexual relationship
00:17:59.97\00:18:01.98
during the
marriage as well, right?
00:18:02.01\00:18:03.35
Yes.
00:18:03.38\00:18:04.71
And so what happened then?
00:18:04.75\00:18:08.75
That's about
when we met, isn't it?
00:18:08.78\00:18:10.12
Now we're about--
in 2005. Yes, 2005.
00:18:10.15\00:18:13.25
I-- you know, and I
have to say this, Mike,
00:18:13.29\00:18:16.02
that it was an on and
off thing with the Lord.
00:18:16.06\00:18:18.93
You know, it's like I would
have this victory for a while.
00:18:18.96\00:18:21.30
Because deep downside I
didn't want to be this way
00:18:21.33\00:18:23.37
and I didn't want
to have these struggles
00:18:23.40\00:18:24.73
with pornography or masturbation
00:18:24.77\00:18:27.24
but I would go these
periods when I was free.
00:18:27.27\00:18:29.80
And so I end up going to
Southern Adventist University
00:18:29.84\00:18:33.81
to take the theology.
00:18:33.84\00:18:35.34
Right.
00:18:35.38\00:18:36.71
And while I was
there I met a woman
00:18:36.75\00:18:39.48
who I was talking to
about my attractions.
00:18:39.51\00:18:42.38
Is that Nicole?
Nicole Parker, yeah.
00:18:42.42\00:18:45.29
And she introduced me to you.
00:18:45.32\00:18:48.12
Okay. All right.
00:18:48.16\00:18:49.49
And so, you know,
we're gonna we still got,
00:18:49.52\00:18:51.59
you know, quite a bit to
get into short amount of time.
00:18:51.63\00:18:53.83
What was your reaction to me?
00:18:53.86\00:18:56.70
Well I was really
trying to get you to understand
00:18:56.73\00:19:01.54
that I really want to
experience the gay lifestyle.
00:19:01.57\00:19:03.81
I never have really experienced.
00:19:03.84\00:19:05.24
I mean, I had my
little flings and stuff
00:19:05.27\00:19:07.58
but I never really
experienced it like you did,
00:19:07.61\00:19:10.78
you know, as you
explained your life to me.
00:19:10.81\00:19:13.05
And I, you know, I
wanted you to understand that
00:19:13.08\00:19:16.42
and you just was
trying to get me back to,
00:19:16.45\00:19:19.65
"You know, Lance, it's great
00:19:19.69\00:19:21.06
that you had never
experienced these things.
00:19:21.09\00:19:22.42
You know, you don't want
experience these things."
00:19:22.46\00:19:23.79
I wasn't listening you. Okay.
00:19:23.83\00:19:25.39
I didn't want to
hear it. All right.
00:19:25.43\00:19:26.76
And so then what happened?
00:19:26.80\00:19:28.56
Well, I just dropped
you like a hot potato.
00:19:28.60\00:19:30.20
Okay. Yeah.
00:19:30.23\00:19:31.63
Yeah, it was
pretty much that way.
00:19:31.67\00:19:33.64
And so you
changed your phone number,
00:19:33.67\00:19:35.90
you changed your email address,
00:19:35.94\00:19:37.44
you told me to lose your
number and then what happened?
00:19:37.47\00:19:41.68
Well, at this time, you
know, what happened was,
00:19:41.71\00:19:43.81
was that I wanted
out the relationship.
00:19:43.85\00:19:47.52
I wanted out the marriage.
00:19:47.55\00:19:48.92
You wanted it out
at the relationship
00:19:48.95\00:19:50.29
and what did you
want into, Lance?
00:19:50.32\00:19:52.49
I wanted to
experience the gay lifestyle.
00:19:52.52\00:19:54.06
And did you?
00:19:54.09\00:19:55.72
I experienced it and I
was greatly disappointed.
00:19:55.76\00:19:58.09
What happened?
00:19:58.13\00:19:59.46
What happened was
I went to a gay bar
00:19:59.49\00:20:01.20
and I so also when I
was very attracted to.
00:20:01.23\00:20:05.80
We had a conversation
00:20:05.83\00:20:07.44
and I was totally
rejected by this person
00:20:07.47\00:20:12.61
because I wasn't the type
of person that they wanted
00:20:12.64\00:20:15.11
and it hurt me so badly, I said,
00:20:15.14\00:20:16.48
I will not go back again.
00:20:16.51\00:20:17.85
You know, it's
interesting because, you know,
00:20:17.88\00:20:20.18
that many people
that I've talked to Wayne
00:20:20.22\00:20:23.02
and Ron and you and me as well,
00:20:23.05\00:20:25.55
you know, the gay life,
you know, it calls to us.
00:20:25.59\00:20:27.79
It says, come
and we will love you
00:20:27.82\00:20:29.16
and we'll take care of you
but all of us recognize that
00:20:29.19\00:20:32.36
when we went
into that lifestyle,
00:20:32.39\00:20:34.50
yes, there I definitely identify
00:20:34.53\00:20:36.36
with many things
but what happen is
00:20:36.40\00:20:38.40
we also found that there was
a lot of criticism, judgment,
00:20:38.43\00:20:42.50
again not fitting in.
00:20:42.54\00:20:44.01
So we've all had
experiences like that.
00:20:44.04\00:20:46.37
My fear when you
cut me off was at that,
00:20:46.41\00:20:49.08
I had even warned you.
00:20:49.11\00:20:50.45
I said, "You know, Lance,
00:20:50.48\00:20:51.81
once you get a taste of
this you may never come back."
00:20:51.85\00:20:55.05
And still so when you left
00:20:55.08\00:20:56.42
I continued to keep
you on my prayer list
00:20:56.45\00:20:58.65
and I thought
that I'd done something
00:20:58.69\00:21:00.32
so heinous that to, you
know, to let you get away.
00:21:00.36\00:21:03.53
But, you know,
what's incredible is
00:21:03.56\00:21:06.49
we're not done with
this story yet, are we?
00:21:06.53\00:21:08.66
And so, Lance, pick it up then
from your great disappointment
00:21:08.70\00:21:11.73
and how God then
started to talk to you.
00:21:11.77\00:21:14.24
Yeah, I have a
friend named Jeff Tatarchuk.
00:21:14.27\00:21:16.57
Oh, yeah. Yes, talk about Jeff.
00:21:16.60\00:21:18.67
Yeah, after this disappointment
of being in a gay bar
00:21:18.71\00:21:21.08
and being rejected I
just went deep into isolation
00:21:21.11\00:21:25.15
just watching junk on
TV and deeper into the porn
00:21:25.18\00:21:28.38
and just really
depressed and discourage.
00:21:28.42\00:21:31.39
But this friend
named Jeff Tatarchuk
00:21:31.42\00:21:33.36
that I met at school
he never gave up on me.
00:21:33.39\00:21:36.76
He would come over and
just fellowship with me.
00:21:36.79\00:21:38.73
Never condemn me.
00:21:38.76\00:21:40.30
But one day he invited
me to a revival meeting
00:21:40.33\00:21:43.87
and I went there and the love
of God just touched my heart
00:21:43.90\00:21:47.70
and I rededicate my
life back to the Lord
00:21:47.74\00:21:49.50
and got re-baptized.
00:21:49.54\00:21:50.87
Amen. I mean,
that's incredible right.
00:21:50.91\00:21:53.98
You know, it's amazing because
00:21:54.01\00:21:55.44
I heard Ellen
White say one time,
00:21:55.48\00:21:58.25
she said, "That the same power
that it takes to raise someone
00:21:58.28\00:22:01.52
from the dead is the same power
that it takes to save a soul."
00:22:01.55\00:22:05.35
And so, Lance, not
only were you saved once,
00:22:05.39\00:22:08.02
you know, you
brought back to life once,
00:22:08.06\00:22:09.56
you were brought back to
life again the second time.
00:22:09.59\00:22:12.36
So what does that
do for you so forth now
00:22:12.39\00:22:14.93
recognizing the extent
00:22:14.96\00:22:16.33
of how God would
go for you personally?
00:22:16.36\00:22:19.33
Well, I think
you might know this
00:22:19.37\00:22:20.70
and I think I
touched on this earlier
00:22:20.74\00:22:23.41
that I kept falling and I
kept going back to the Lord.
00:22:23.44\00:22:27.01
I'll be okay for a
while and I fall again.
00:22:27.04\00:22:29.74
But what has
really touched my heart
00:22:29.78\00:22:31.28
and what really caused stability
00:22:31.31\00:22:33.35
in my relationship with Christ
00:22:33.38\00:22:34.72
is that He never gave up on me.
00:22:34.75\00:22:37.39
He never gave up on me
00:22:37.42\00:22:39.05
and has really touched my heart.
00:22:39.09\00:22:40.42
And I finally
enable to trust Him
00:22:40.46\00:22:41.79
because in the
past I didn't trust Him.
00:22:41.82\00:22:43.73
Well, doesn't that make sense,
00:22:43.76\00:22:45.09
you didn't know
how to trust men,
00:22:45.13\00:22:46.90
you don't even know how to trust
00:22:46.93\00:22:48.26
any of your family members.
00:22:48.30\00:22:49.63
You were all in
this alone. Correct.
00:22:49.66\00:22:51.00
So how was it
that God was able to,
00:22:51.03\00:22:52.97
to cut past all of that
00:22:53.00\00:22:54.34
and actually
get into your heart?
00:22:54.37\00:22:56.77
Well, you know, Mike,
you said something to me
00:22:56.81\00:23:00.44
that really
cause a lot of ability
00:23:00.48\00:23:03.58
in my relationship with Christ
00:23:03.61\00:23:04.95
and that was that "God
really loves you, Lance,
00:23:04.98\00:23:07.65
and you still haven't
testimony to tell to people."
00:23:07.68\00:23:10.69
Because I thought, you
know, what can I tell people.
00:23:10.72\00:23:13.09
I got a divorce, you
know, I've been this porn,
00:23:13.12\00:23:15.42
I've been, I
just been so degraded.
00:23:15.46\00:23:18.63
But you said something to me
00:23:18.66\00:23:20.10
that really calls me to
see how much God loved me
00:23:20.13\00:23:23.00
and I can be used by Him.
00:23:23.03\00:23:24.53
Wow. That's powerful.
00:23:24.57\00:23:25.97
Lance, you know, my
insights to your situation are
00:23:26.00\00:23:29.47
because we share a
lot of the same thing.
00:23:29.50\00:23:31.41
I came into, you
know, church culture again
00:23:31.44\00:23:34.91
still
struggling with pornography
00:23:34.94\00:23:36.38
and masturbation and addiction.
00:23:36.41\00:23:37.75
As a matter of fact, you know,
the rates are so high now with,
00:23:37.78\00:23:41.98
you know, iPads and
computers and things
00:23:42.02\00:23:44.65
that you can hold in your
hand that access the Internet.
00:23:44.69\00:23:46.92
You know, it just
seems to not only be
00:23:46.96\00:23:48.82
sliming secular society
00:23:48.86\00:23:50.63
but also in
church culture, you know,
00:23:50.66\00:23:52.99
45 percent of Christian pastors
00:23:53.03\00:23:55.46
struggle with
pornography, addiction.
00:23:55.50\00:23:57.37
So we know that this
is a very powerful grip
00:23:57.40\00:24:00.07
that the enemy has
on us and the only way,
00:24:00.10\00:24:03.00
the only one who can
break through all of that
00:24:03.04\00:24:05.97
is the one that God sent
to die on a cross for us,
00:24:06.01\00:24:08.81
to take our sins on Him
00:24:08.84\00:24:10.61
and to also bring us
redemption and restoration.
00:24:10.65\00:24:14.02
Isn't that right?
That's exactly right.
00:24:14.05\00:24:15.52
And I tell you, Mike,
00:24:15.55\00:24:17.75
what has really
helped me a whole lot,
00:24:17.79\00:24:19.49
seeing the past I would,
because I didn't trust God,
00:24:19.52\00:24:22.12
I didn't trust His
word. That's right.
00:24:22.16\00:24:23.99
But now I'm trust in His word
00:24:24.03\00:24:25.59
and His word now is making
a big difference in my life
00:24:25.63\00:24:28.46
as I'm moving forward.
00:24:28.50\00:24:30.93
Me being here right now
00:24:30.97\00:24:32.43
is because I have
trusted in His word.
00:24:32.47\00:24:35.07
I say, I'm gonna do this Lord
00:24:35.10\00:24:36.44
because you're gonna be with me.
00:24:36.47\00:24:38.51
Wow. That's powerful.
00:24:38.54\00:24:39.87
You know, Lance,
this is exciting for me
00:24:39.91\00:24:42.04
because, you
know, for all the time
00:24:42.08\00:24:43.75
that we've known
each other since 2005
00:24:43.78\00:24:46.41
I never actually
saw you face to face
00:24:46.45\00:24:48.38
until October of 2012.
00:24:48.42\00:24:51.55
You know, that
was the first time
00:24:51.59\00:24:52.92
that we actually saw
each other face to face
00:24:52.95\00:24:54.92
and this is the second time.
00:24:54.96\00:24:56.39
So I'm just amazed at
how God writes our stories
00:24:56.42\00:25:01.33
and at a time when
I thought, you know,
00:25:01.36\00:25:03.00
you were lost and
gone into that world
00:25:03.03\00:25:04.83
and I thought it was
just another check mark,
00:25:04.87\00:25:07.20
you know, for Satan.
00:25:07.24\00:25:08.57
What happen is, you know,
00:25:08.60\00:25:09.94
God let the
rope out a little bit
00:25:09.97\00:25:11.34
and what He said is, "You know,
00:25:11.37\00:25:13.21
I've still got a hold of Lance.
00:25:13.24\00:25:14.74
It's not over for him."
00:25:14.78\00:25:16.24
And through Jeff--
say his name again.
00:25:16.28\00:25:18.58
Tatarchuk Tatarchuk. Yeah, yeah.
00:25:18.61\00:25:20.42
He was the faithful
warrior that kept coming
00:25:20.45\00:25:22.62
and showing you
unconditional love
00:25:22.65\00:25:25.15
and I believe that he
needed to affirm that to you
00:25:25.19\00:25:28.42
through a mail to let you
know what healthy male love was
00:25:28.46\00:25:32.39
that wasn't sexualized.
00:25:32.43\00:25:34.06
You know, no matter
00:25:34.10\00:25:35.43
what the enemy
tries to do to us,
00:25:35.46\00:25:37.97
no matter how he
comes to attack us,
00:25:38.00\00:25:39.90
no matter what age that
was and for you, like Wayne,
00:25:39.93\00:25:43.51
you know, it
happen even in vitro
00:25:43.54\00:25:45.37
the rejection
that you were feeling.
00:25:45.41\00:25:47.24
You know, they talk about
00:25:47.28\00:25:49.24
the influences
of a pregnant mother
00:25:49.28\00:25:50.98
how that's passed
on to the children
00:25:51.01\00:25:53.01
and here this little lost
child even before he was born
00:25:53.05\00:25:56.15
nobody knew about him
and here he was tucked away
00:25:56.18\00:25:59.19
and he was experiencing
the depression of his mother
00:25:59.22\00:26:01.92
and the nutritional deprivation.
00:26:01.96\00:26:05.19
And then even your
beginning started off rough
00:26:05.23\00:26:07.76
but the enemy
was not triumphant,
00:26:07.80\00:26:09.43
isn't that right?
00:26:09.46\00:26:10.80
You know, not at all.
That's right. That's right.
00:26:10.83\00:26:12.83
Do you have any
kind of closing comment
00:26:12.87\00:26:15.00
that you would give
00:26:15.04\00:26:16.40
to somebody who
may be in a marriage,
00:26:16.44\00:26:18.44
who is living a lie
00:26:18.47\00:26:20.14
or somebody who is struggling
with pornography, addiction
00:26:20.18\00:26:23.18
that wants out and
doesn't absolutely see anything
00:26:23.21\00:26:26.78
that could help them out.
00:26:26.82\00:26:28.15
Do you have any comment
00:26:28.18\00:26:29.52
that you could
share some wisdom to?
00:26:29.55\00:26:31.95
Well, I would just
say stop living a lie,
00:26:31.99\00:26:34.02
stop believing
a lie of the enemy
00:26:34.06\00:26:35.56
because that's
what has helped me.
00:26:35.59\00:26:37.56
Just really
getting in God's word
00:26:37.59\00:26:38.93
and really believe what He says.
00:26:38.96\00:26:40.30
When He says, He loves
you He really does love you
00:26:40.33\00:26:41.80
and He wants to help you.
00:26:41.83\00:26:43.40
When God says He loves
you He really does love you.
00:26:43.43\00:26:47.00
So that was, that
was for you profound?
00:26:47.04\00:26:50.61
I mean, for someone
who was hungry and thirsty
00:26:50.64\00:26:52.47
for love, yes, yes.
00:26:52.51\00:26:54.41
Okay. All right,
this is incredible.
00:26:54.44\00:26:56.04
So, so where you at now?
00:26:56.08\00:26:59.35
What are you
doing to begin your day?
00:26:59.38\00:27:03.32
Oh, Man, I begin my day
with studying God's word
00:27:03.35\00:27:06.99
and prayer and I
also do it in the evening
00:27:07.02\00:27:09.19
and that's what's
really strengthening me.
00:27:09.22\00:27:10.93
I want to just quote a song
that a friend of mine wrote.
00:27:10.96\00:27:15.63
That is just so beautiful
because it retouches my heart
00:27:15.66\00:27:17.87
and I hope it
touches your heart.
00:27:17.90\00:27:19.80
It says, its
called "So Many Days"
00:27:19.83\00:27:22.14
and it says, "Can
You still do miracles?
00:27:22.17\00:27:25.47
You as in God can
You still do miracles?
00:27:25.51\00:27:27.61
Can you change a
heart that's cold?
00:27:27.64\00:27:29.78
Can You clear on my
confusion and make me whole?
00:27:29.81\00:27:32.41
Can You shower me
with all the blessings
00:27:32.45\00:27:34.68
You promised to endeavor?
00:27:34.72\00:27:36.72
I know You can because
You're doing it right now."
00:27:36.75\00:27:38.99
Amen.
00:27:39.02\00:27:40.36
Wow, that's
excellent. Lance, thank you.
00:27:40.39\00:27:42.69
This has been an
incredible opportunity
00:27:42.72\00:27:45.29
and we hope that you
glean some real truths
00:27:45.33\00:27:47.73
on this program of Pure Choices
00:27:47.76\00:27:50.10
and we welcome you
to come back again soon.
00:27:50.13\00:27:51.93