The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Hi.
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I'm Mike Carducci,
with Coming Out Ministries,
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your host today
for Pure Choices.
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Today with me,
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I have my fellow colleagues
from Coming Out Ministries,
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Ron Woolsey and Wayne Blakely
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and we also have with us
today Elder Raymond King.
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Today our topic
is gonna be about
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"Heredity and Sexuality."
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Coming from the homosexual
background that I had,
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when I gave my
heart to the Lord,
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I wanted to know
how this happened.
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I wanted to know why it was that
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I was not in control
of who I was attracted to.
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And so as Jesus was leading
me out of that lifestyle,
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I was asking God, I said,
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"Lord show me how this happened?
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How was it that,
that if I was born gay,"
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which is what I understood
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by the history of
20-years in that lifestyle,
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"then why Lord would
you call me an abomination?"
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And so in my search to
find legitimate answers to,
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to what it was that that
had caused this, you know,
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this understanding or
this attraction in me,
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I was desperate to find out
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how homosexuality
actually originated.
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My understanding
and some of the things
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that I actually
was able to glean from,
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from different sermons,
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from different
things that I read articles,
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and even my own Bible study,
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was that there was
a hereditary component
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and then also there was
this environmental component.
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Now, because of my history,
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my mother came
from sexual abuse,
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she was molested by her father.
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My grandmother,
my mother's mother
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was also raped by her stepfather
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and my great grandmother
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was actually a prostitute
during the depression.
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So, you can see the
hereditary predisposition
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from the generations of sin
and then on my father's side,
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he was a philanderer,
he had many affairs.
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He was also a sexual
addict which was also
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what I struggled with.
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As well as his
father was a musician,
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who was also very
popular with the ladies
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and his and my grandmother
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whose father had
actually murdered a man
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because he thought
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that somebody was
having an affair with his wife,
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he had actually murdered a
man and actually died in jail.
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So not only did I see
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the hereditary
predisposition for sexual sin,
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but I also saw
areas of anger management
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and an impulse control.
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So, today what we
want to talk about is,
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we want to talk about
the hereditary components.
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One of the phrases
that I heard in my quest
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to find out more was
the word epigenetics.
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And Dr. Arlene Taylor, I
went to a conference of hers
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and she was talking
about how epigenetics is,
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is the genetic link that
whatever my history is if,
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if I get married and to my wife,
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we actually have
a child together,
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what happens is when
the egg meets the sperm,
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all of my history all of the,
the history from not only me,
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but my generation behind me
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and generation before
that is combined with,
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with my wife's and
when the child is born,
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all of that history
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actually comes
through to that child.
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So I started to recognize
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that some of what I
was struggling with,
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were things that I
wasn't even responsible for.
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In Exodus 20:5 it talks about
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visiting the sins
of the generations,
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"to the third and
fourth generations
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of them that hate me."
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And so, I started to
see biblical evidence
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that supported the understanding
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that there is a genetic link
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to the sexual sin
that I was struggling with.
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I was also raised
by a single mother
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and three sisters so,
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so I also had an
environmental factor.
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I didn't have a
father, a gender role model
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that I could relate to or
that I could be affirmed by.
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And so, I also believe that this
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had an influence as well.
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So, panel if you
would this morning,
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my first question is, is
it possible to be born gay?
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I talked to people about
that question myself and,
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I tell them that you
cannot be born genetically gay
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but you can be born
with, what I call a,
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abnormal sexual appetite.
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In the medical community
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they have a list of
abnormal sexual turn on.
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It's called Paraphilias.
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And there are individuals
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who are sexually
turned on by their bodies,
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there are people who
are sexually turned on
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by older individuals,
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there are people who are
sexually turned on by children.
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They call them Pedophiles.
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There are people who are
turned on sexually by tattoos.
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So it's a list of different
"abnormal" sexual attractions.
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And people didn't
understand that because of sin,
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these individuals may,
may say well, you know,
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as long I've known
I've had this weird desire,
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I've had this weird turned
on, where did it come from?
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But I believe
because, we are born in sin
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and in iniquity
as you said earlier.
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That's right.
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That we indeed, do pick up
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certain sinful
tendencies from our forefathers.
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I'm reminded about
the end antediluvian and,
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we know that, Adam
and Eve were made perfect.
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Because of sin,
their first generation was,
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develop a murderer,
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but the mankind
had got to the point
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where the Bible says,
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"Their imaginations
were only evil continually."
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And it was like that because
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you had generation
upon generation of people
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who did not
embrace righteousness
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and because of
the malignancy of sin,
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we see that sin can totally ruin
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generation upon generation.
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But each generation
becomes worse and worse.
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And, so I submit that
from a genetic perspective,
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where people can say, we'll,
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you can be justified in your sin
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or justified in your wrongness.
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No, that's not the case.
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But I believe
that we can be born
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with evil tendencies.
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Okay. Yeah.
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I would personally, I
have had that question
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and I've wondered myself
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and I've come to the
conclusion at times that
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that yeah, I was born gay.
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And so, the
question back today is
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so what if you can be born gay?
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so, are you saying
that if you're born gay
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that you can't be redeemed?
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My mother's prenatal
influence on me was that
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she would only have a
baby girl and not a boy and so,
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throughout her pregnancy,
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where she was
adamant with people
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that she was
having only a baby girl.
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So, she had put such much...
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so much emphasis on
this before I was born.
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And then, her
rejection of me when I was born,
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had conditioned
me into being someone
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who would respond to
any kind of gay influences.
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But my response again is this,
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there is no
hereditary or cultivated sin
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that God cannot redeem you from.
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Amen.
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And so we're all
born with a sinful nature.
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It's just that my
cross, the one that I carry,
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had to do with
same sex attraction.
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You know we, we
all come to this panel
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with different experiences
and different perspectives
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and that these
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I think to a healthy
discussion of the issue
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and I have always had well,
when I was in the gay life,
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all those years I
was in the gay life,
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I use the same old
argument that we all have used,
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except Elder King,
who was not in that life.
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That's right. That,
that I was born gay.
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And in a way that it was
to shut down the discussion.
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I didn't want to be
confronted about being gay.
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And so, I actually believe
that I was born gay because
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from our earliest memories,
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I had these
fantasies and attractions
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to the same gender.
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But I've come to
believe and this is my thinking
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that a person's
perception is his own reality.
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And so, if a person
believes that he is born gay,
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then, so be it.
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And then we then
focus on the solution.
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But and that we probably
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will be talking
about in another episode.
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But, I have also
come to understand
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that children can be
born with a sense of rejection
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and this is kind of
what Wayne is talking about.
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And if a child is born
with a sense of rejection,
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he will grow up
looking for acceptance
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and quite often in
all the wrong places.
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If a child does not
have that acceptance
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and those love cups
filled from father and mother,
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he will tend or she
will tend to look to fill
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that void in the
life through other ways
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and it may be alcohol, drugs,
just sexual promiscuity and,
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and of course, in our case,
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we had a void in our
lives from our father,
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the father side and,
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and so we were
looking to fill that void,
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that sense of
rejection with acceptance
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in all the wrong places.
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And so, yes, a child can be born
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with a sense of
rejection and then,
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we think that
we're just born gay
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and we think it may be genetic,
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when it's actually environmental
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or a conditioning.
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And so we have
these different factors.
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I think there are many
factors that feed into the,
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the gay reality
and so my thinking is,
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I tend to believe
more in the conditioning
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and in the rejection
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and the push from
environmental sources.
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But yes, there is that
inheritance of tendencies
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and weaknesses in sin.
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Well, I think it's important
to let our audience know,
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Ron Woolsey is now a pastor
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and has been a
pastor for over 20 years
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and was in the
lifestyle before that.
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Wayne has also come
from the gay lifestyle
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and he was in that
lifestyle for over 40 years.
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My history is I was in
that lifestyle for 20 years.
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Elder King is
what we would call,
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he has a lot of information
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and he also talks a
lot about sexual purity
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and he has a
ministry as such so.
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I just wanted to
give the audience
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a little bit of our, our history
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and what our
understanding is in that field.
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So gentlemen,
especially, Wayne and Ron,
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I bring this question to you.
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Does everybody have
the same experiences?
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Is it, is it true
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that every homosexual
comes from the hereditary
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and the environmental factor?
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I don't think so,
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I don't think Satan really
cares how he influences us.
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Some today think
that you know, God...
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they'll say, "God
made me this way."
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So, it's as though
they were given the right.
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But we were all born
with a fallen nature.
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And in my life, I was at a point
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where I was catering to people
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who were seeking
out sexual pleasure.
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And that turned out to be people
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from bisexual backgrounds,
heterosexual backgrounds,
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pretty much any
kind of background
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and so if they found that they
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experienced the pleasure,
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then they could make
choices based on the pleasure
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they were experiencing
and begin to decide that,
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oh, I must be gay or
I'm gay or I like this,
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I'm gonna go forward in this.
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And so, there's a lot of choice
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with regards to
carrying out the behavior,
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not always a choice on
what the temptation is.
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Fortunately or
unfortunately for me,
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I was never molested.
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And so, I remember as
early as six years old,
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knowing that I was
different from other boys,
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I recognized that
there was something distant
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between me and the
other boys in my neighborhood.
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And I think that what that did
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is that's what created
this, this question for me,
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where did this come from,
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why is it that I
wasn't, you know,
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like other little
boys in my neighborhood.
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So, even though it wasn't
sexualized for me because,
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I was never molested,
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it was something
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that was a constant
nagging question in my mind.
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I though that God
had made a mistake.
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I really thought that
I was meant to be a girl,
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especially, I was
surrounded by women.
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And I certainly didn't relate
to my dad or to masculinity.
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So, so as I was searching
for this, one of the...
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situations, I know
for you Wayne, you know,
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a little bit of your history
00:13:02.61\00:13:03.95
and I want you to elaborate was
00:13:03.98\00:13:05.31
about while you were in vitro,
00:13:05.35\00:13:07.12
your mother was determined
00:13:07.15\00:13:08.48
that she was
going to have a girl.
00:13:08.52\00:13:10.42
Is there an influence
that goes on prenatally
00:13:10.45\00:13:13.02
before a child is born
by the actions of the mother
00:13:13.05\00:13:17.03
and things that
the mother incurs?
00:13:17.06\00:13:18.89
What are your thoughts on that?
00:13:18.93\00:13:20.26
Well, I can't
reference the exact study,
00:13:20.30\00:13:23.13
but I know the
study exists that,
00:13:23.16\00:13:24.83
that has taken place
00:13:24.87\00:13:26.27
that women have a hormonal
influence between that...
00:13:26.30\00:13:30.44
like usually between like
12th and 14th week of pregnancy.
00:13:30.47\00:13:34.18
And depending on
what their psychological
00:13:34.21\00:13:37.75
presence is during that time,
00:13:37.78\00:13:40.05
and what they're feeling,
00:13:40.08\00:13:41.48
it can have great
impact on the fetus.
00:13:41.52\00:13:44.45
And, they've done studies
to say that they think that
00:13:44.49\00:13:47.36
this might even
help the fetus decide
00:13:47.39\00:13:50.13
what gender it's
going to be attracted to
00:13:50.16\00:13:53.29
when the child is born.
00:13:53.33\00:13:55.16
Again, I would say,
00:13:55.20\00:13:56.70
I think anything
is really possible
00:13:56.73\00:13:59.23
in this world because of the,
00:13:59.27\00:14:01.67
the influence that
the prince has been given,
00:14:01.70\00:14:05.24
the prince of darkness
has been given on this world
00:14:05.27\00:14:07.88
to try to tempt us to believe
00:14:07.91\00:14:10.28
a different way than what
God would have us believe.
00:14:10.31\00:14:13.21
And yet God has given
this his word for us to go to,
00:14:13.25\00:14:16.85
to search out the truth
00:14:16.89\00:14:18.25
and that's why
there will be a people,
00:14:18.29\00:14:21.59
not the whole world,
00:14:21.62\00:14:22.96
but a people who will
come apart from the world,
00:14:22.99\00:14:25.73
who will see that,
00:14:25.76\00:14:27.10
regardless of the temptations
that are put upon them,
00:14:27.13\00:14:30.57
that they have a choice to
surrender those temptations
00:14:30.60\00:14:34.14
and God has
promised them healing.
00:14:34.17\00:14:36.10
And if I abide in Christ, I
can experience that healing,
00:14:36.14\00:14:39.97
and that healing
may come about gradually
00:14:40.01\00:14:43.35
or it may come about for some
people more instantaneously.
00:14:43.38\00:14:47.08
It depends on that
person's relationship
00:14:47.12\00:14:49.38
and their
intimacy with Jesus Christ,
00:14:49.42\00:14:51.09
and what God's plan is
versus what my plan is.
00:14:51.12\00:14:54.06
I just need to surrender to Him.
00:14:54.09\00:14:55.59
Okay.
00:14:55.62\00:14:56.96
So on that line, I know that
00:14:56.99\00:14:59.09
Dr. Taylor will talk
about this woman that was,
00:14:59.13\00:15:02.43
she had a son
who's about 12 years old
00:15:02.46\00:15:04.83
and he was
obsessed with suicide.
00:15:04.87\00:15:06.74
He wanted to hang
himself constantly,
00:15:06.77\00:15:08.60
a 12 year old boy.
00:15:08.64\00:15:10.04
And so, she went
to the psychologist
00:15:10.07\00:15:12.41
and was explaining the situation
00:15:12.44\00:15:14.28
and Dr. Taylor asked this women,
00:15:14.31\00:15:16.41
"Can you describe to
me, you know, you're...
00:15:16.44\00:15:19.18
your child's early years?"
00:15:19.21\00:15:21.22
Or whatever.
00:15:21.25\00:15:22.58
Nothing traumatic
nothing had happened
00:15:22.62\00:15:23.95
and she said, "Well,
how about you're pregnancy?
00:15:23.99\00:15:25.82
What kind of
pregnancy did you have?"
00:15:25.85\00:15:27.79
and she said, "Well, I
had a normal delivery."
00:15:27.82\00:15:29.69
Talked about that the pregnancy,
00:15:29.72\00:15:31.06
it was full term.
00:15:31.09\00:15:32.43
And she said, "Well then,
did anything traumatic happen
00:15:32.46\00:15:35.36
while you were pregnant?"
00:15:35.40\00:15:36.77
And she started
to share the story
00:15:36.80\00:15:38.43
that, she was
driving home one day,
00:15:38.47\00:15:40.14
and her father actually
stayed with her other children.
00:15:40.17\00:15:42.24
You know, babysat
while she'd be working.
00:15:42.27\00:15:44.74
And as she
approached the drive way
00:15:44.77\00:15:46.71
and hit the garage door opener,
00:15:46.74\00:15:48.54
what happened is
the garage door open,
00:15:48.58\00:15:50.08
you know, opened
00:15:50.11\00:15:51.45
and she saw her father
and he had hung himself.
00:15:51.48\00:15:54.28
The 12 year old
boy jumped to his feet
00:15:54.32\00:15:56.75
and he exclaimed
"That's it, that's it.
00:15:56.79\00:15:59.19
All I ever thought
of is this man hanging."
00:15:59.22\00:16:02.49
And he had never heard the story
00:16:02.52\00:16:04.19
of how his grandfather died.
00:16:04.23\00:16:05.59
This was the first time
that he heard that story
00:16:05.63\00:16:07.26
and as they processed
the suicide of her father
00:16:07.30\00:16:10.20
that she witnessed
while he was in vitro,
00:16:10.23\00:16:12.83
they reorganized the influence
of what the mother experienced
00:16:12.87\00:16:16.07
it was also passed to the son.
00:16:16.10\00:16:17.74
And so, Wayne, in particular,
00:16:17.77\00:16:20.04
you're story I
think resonates with,
00:16:20.08\00:16:22.34
with some of the
same characteristics
00:16:22.38\00:16:24.28
and could you explain
00:16:24.31\00:16:25.65
or maybe elaborate a
little bit more about that.
00:16:25.68\00:16:27.68
Well, when you arrive
00:16:27.72\00:16:30.29
having been not
wanted from birth,
00:16:30.32\00:16:33.56
you can imagine the conditioning
00:16:33.59\00:16:35.12
is already there.
00:16:35.16\00:16:36.96
And the first
two years, you know,
00:16:36.99\00:16:39.93
I was on Air Force Base.
00:16:39.96\00:16:41.56
So my father was always
away that gave, you know,
00:16:41.60\00:16:44.50
ample time for my
mother to abuse me.
00:16:44.53\00:16:47.24
And before I was two years old
00:16:47.27\00:16:49.70
my mother had broken my
arm in two different places.
00:16:49.74\00:16:52.77
So it wasn't going
to be natural for me
00:16:52.81\00:16:55.44
to be running into the
arms of a woman, and saying,
00:16:55.48\00:16:58.28
"I love you, I love you."
00:16:58.31\00:16:59.95
I wanted to go
to the arms of a man
00:16:59.98\00:17:02.45
who provided strength and power
00:17:02.48\00:17:05.19
and compassion
and shelter, safety...
00:17:05.22\00:17:09.22
Yes.
00:17:09.26\00:17:11.03
And so, that, that you know,
00:17:11.06\00:17:14.10
that
preconditions you to begin to,
00:17:14.13\00:17:18.03
to seek that out in your life.
00:17:18.07\00:17:20.34
And it's such a strong
impact at such a very young age
00:17:20.37\00:17:24.17
that it's hard to, to
let a division come in over.
00:17:24.21\00:17:28.51
And so, because the church
community really didn't know
00:17:28.54\00:17:32.01
how to reach
out to me, you know,
00:17:32.05\00:17:34.18
I went for many, many
years before that pattern of,
00:17:34.22\00:17:37.95
of the false identity
or being drawn to something
00:17:37.99\00:17:42.76
that God didn't
intend for me to be drawn to,
00:17:42.79\00:17:45.53
He wants me to have
right relationships with men.
00:17:45.56\00:17:48.36
But He didn't want me to have
00:17:48.40\00:17:49.73
the intimate relationships
that I came to have
00:17:49.76\00:17:52.00
because it was the only way
00:17:52.03\00:17:53.74
I seem to be able to
relate and find comfort.
00:17:53.77\00:17:57.44
I wasn't going to find
that comfort in a woman.
00:17:57.47\00:18:00.24
All right. Can
say something? Yes.
00:18:00.28\00:18:02.18
I think it's really,
really important to establish
00:18:02.21\00:18:06.31
how the actions of the
parent will affect the child.
00:18:06.35\00:18:11.65
I have real good,
00:18:11.69\00:18:14.82
I'm gonna call my favorite
writer made the statement.
00:18:14.86\00:18:17.69
It says, "When
parents and children meet
00:18:17.73\00:18:19.89
at the final reckoning,
00:18:19.93\00:18:21.80
what a scene will be presented!
00:18:21.83\00:18:24.17
Thousands of
children who have been slaved
00:18:24.20\00:18:27.00
to appetite and debasing vice,
00:18:27.04\00:18:31.24
whose lives are moral wrecks,
00:18:31.27\00:18:34.14
will stand face to
faith with the parents
00:18:34.18\00:18:36.54
who made them what they are.
00:18:36.58\00:18:39.55
Who but the parents must bear
this faithful responsibility?
00:18:39.58\00:18:43.59
Did the Lord make
these youth corrupt?
00:18:43.62\00:18:46.09
Oh, no!
00:18:46.12\00:18:47.46
Who, then, has
done this fearful work?
00:18:47.49\00:18:50.33
Where not the sins of
the parents transmitted
00:18:50.36\00:18:54.26
to the children in perverted
appetites and passions?"
00:18:54.30\00:19:00.84
We all talk
about our family tree.
00:19:00.87\00:19:05.47
But the Lord gave
me inspiration about,
00:19:05.51\00:19:09.58
talking about our sexual tree.
00:19:09.61\00:19:12.41
You know, the Bible
talked about two becoming one.
00:19:12.45\00:19:15.02
And I'll tell people,
00:19:15.05\00:19:17.19
those individuals that you
get involved with sexually,
00:19:17.22\00:19:21.16
I thought of God's will,
00:19:21.19\00:19:23.09
we'll have a impact eventually
on the children that you bear.
00:19:23.12\00:19:28.33
Take someone who has
been sexually active.
00:19:28.36\00:19:31.33
There's no telling what
type of demonic influences
00:19:31.37\00:19:36.17
or inherited family tendencies
00:19:36.20\00:19:40.18
are now being brought into
their marriage relationship
00:19:40.21\00:19:43.61
and
consequently, their offspring.
00:19:43.65\00:19:45.78
So, based upon this information
00:19:45.81\00:19:47.88
that this author is
trying to establish,
00:19:47.92\00:19:51.39
there is a very
viable anticipation
00:19:51.42\00:19:56.69
of sinful activity of the parent
00:19:56.73\00:19:59.89
being passed on to the child.
00:19:59.93\00:20:01.86
So this is powerful.
00:20:01.90\00:20:03.83
Imagine me in 52 years old is
00:20:03.87\00:20:05.53
and the question that's
been burning in my heart
00:20:05.57\00:20:07.34
since I was a six year old boy,
00:20:07.37\00:20:09.14
we've been able to substantiate
00:20:09.17\00:20:10.71
that there is a
hereditary tendency.
00:20:10.74\00:20:13.98
At this point
what I'd like to do
00:20:14.01\00:20:15.44
is now talk about
the redemptive part.
00:20:15.48\00:20:17.65
How is it that we
can break this cycle?
00:20:17.68\00:20:20.28
The entire plan of salvation
is about this very thing.
00:20:20.32\00:20:23.89
For all sin, for
every issue as God,
00:20:23.92\00:20:27.66
in His love reaches
out to His children,
00:20:27.69\00:20:30.53
and they begin to
respond to that drawing power,
00:20:30.56\00:20:33.93
He creates in their
heart an enmity for sin.
00:20:33.96\00:20:37.37
Genesis 3:15, talks about the
00:20:37.40\00:20:39.60
"enmity between
thee and the women."
00:20:39.63\00:20:41.24
He's talking to Satan.
00:20:41.27\00:20:42.84
So as we respond
00:20:42.87\00:20:44.67
that drawing power
of Jesus and His love,
00:20:44.71\00:20:47.84
we start developing a
hatred for who we are,
00:20:47.88\00:20:52.51
for the sin in our lives
00:20:52.55\00:20:53.88
and we find
ourselves disgusting.
00:20:53.92\00:20:56.08
I know in my case,
00:20:56.12\00:20:57.45
I developed a
disgust for my life.
00:20:57.49\00:21:01.26
And always hurting people
00:21:01.29\00:21:03.32
and in the shame and the stigma.
00:21:03.36\00:21:05.79
And with that,
00:21:05.83\00:21:07.80
and then we come to
the Lord and we say,
00:21:07.83\00:21:09.33
"Lord, take this thing from me.
00:21:09.36\00:21:11.30
I don't like this. I
don't like who I am."
00:21:11.33\00:21:14.37
And His whole plan is to,
to redeem us from our sins.
00:21:14.40\00:21:18.71
In Jeremiah
chapter 3, we read that,
00:21:18.74\00:21:21.41
"If we will only acknowledge."
00:21:21.44\00:21:22.78
He says, "Only
acknowledge thine iniquity.
00:21:22.81\00:21:26.18
And I will heal
your backsliding."
00:21:26.21\00:21:28.88
So in my case,
00:21:28.92\00:21:30.52
I finally came
to the realization
00:21:30.55\00:21:32.39
that I'm dealing
with the sin issue here.
00:21:32.42\00:21:34.92
And, it doesn't
matter, where it came from,
00:21:34.96\00:21:37.76
sin is a mystery in itself
00:21:37.79\00:21:39.96
and so rather than
excuse it and explain it
00:21:40.00\00:21:43.10
and try to analyze it, He says,
00:21:43.13\00:21:45.67
just acknowledge you're
dealing with a sin issue.
00:21:45.70\00:21:48.10
And once we do that
00:21:48.14\00:21:49.47
and we come and acknowledge
that this is a sin issue,
00:21:49.50\00:21:51.91
can you help me
overcome this sin.
00:21:51.94\00:21:54.11
Jesus came to save his
people from their sins.
00:21:54.14\00:21:56.61
Yes.
00:21:56.64\00:21:57.98
And, with that
understanding and we go to Him,
00:21:58.01\00:22:00.32
then we have
these beautiful promises
00:22:00.35\00:22:02.88
throughout the Bible
00:22:02.92\00:22:04.29
about how He
can help us overcome
00:22:04.32\00:22:06.89
and if we're, if
are using that excuse
00:22:06.92\00:22:10.03
that "I was just born this way."
00:22:10.06\00:22:11.89
I love it when Jesus says,
"Well, then be born again."
00:22:11.93\00:22:14.26
Amen.
00:22:14.30\00:22:15.63
And now we can no
longer blame our heredity,
00:22:15.66\00:22:17.70
because now we're
sons and daughters of God.
00:22:17.73\00:22:20.10
Are we going to blame
God because we're gay?
00:22:20.14\00:22:22.84
And a lot of people do.
00:22:22.87\00:22:24.21
They say, "God
made me this way."
00:22:24.24\00:22:25.57
No, God wants
you to be born again
00:22:25.61\00:22:28.71
and then start over.
00:22:28.74\00:22:30.31
And then you have His
divine nature to draw upon,
00:22:30.35\00:22:33.72
you think about His
nature as your heredity now
00:22:33.75\00:22:36.79
rather than that of your past.
00:22:36.82\00:22:38.92
And the Bible gives so
many guidelines, you know,
00:22:38.95\00:22:42.89
"Let this mind to be in you,
00:22:42.92\00:22:44.53
which was also in Christ Jesus."
00:22:44.56\00:22:46.39
In 1 Corinthians 6:9-11.
00:22:46.43\00:22:49.40
Verse 11, especially,
00:22:49.43\00:22:51.60
when Paul is
telling the Corinthians,
00:22:51.63\00:22:53.03
"And such were some of
you. But ye are washed."
00:22:53.07\00:22:56.50
Yes. "Ye are sanctified."
00:22:56.54\00:22:58.07
That's right.
00:22:58.11\00:22:59.44
"Ye are justified in
the name of the Lord Jesus,
00:22:59.47\00:23:00.94
and by the Spirit of our God."
00:23:00.98\00:23:03.35
The Bible is filled with texts.
00:23:03.38\00:23:05.18
It tells us that
these, whatever it is,
00:23:05.21\00:23:07.18
it can be a past issue.
00:23:07.22\00:23:09.02
It does not have
to be your identity,
00:23:09.05\00:23:11.12
it does not have
to be your present.
00:23:11.15\00:23:13.09
II Corinthians 5:17.
00:23:13.12\00:23:15.39
"Therefore if
any man be in Christ,
00:23:15.42\00:23:17.19
he is a new creature."
00:23:17.23\00:23:19.49
We all love that text,
00:23:19.53\00:23:21.00
because we claim that we
are new creatures in Christ,
00:23:21.03\00:23:24.13
we are new creations.
00:23:24.17\00:23:25.67
New motives, the,
00:23:25.70\00:23:27.60
the new birth
consists of new motives,
00:23:27.64\00:23:30.21
new tastes and new tendencies.
00:23:30.24\00:23:33.07
It is a process. But it happens.
00:23:33.11\00:23:36.24
Yeah, we develop that
genuine conversion changes
00:23:36.28\00:23:40.68
both hereditary and cultivated.
00:23:40.72\00:23:43.82
And I say even
created tendencies,
00:23:43.85\00:23:46.45
which are wrong.
00:23:46.49\00:23:47.82
So this is what the plan
of salvation is all about.
00:23:47.86\00:23:51.03
And that's what
we're here to share.
00:23:51.06\00:23:53.70
We have been there,
we have been on that bad,
00:23:53.73\00:23:56.67
that dark side
and by God's grace,
00:23:56.70\00:24:00.14
we are new creatures in Christ.
00:24:00.17\00:24:01.74
We don't identify anymore
00:24:01.77\00:24:04.07
with the sin and
with the temptation,
00:24:04.11\00:24:06.61
but with the power of God
00:24:06.64\00:24:07.98
to save even the
homosexuals from his sin.
00:24:08.01\00:24:11.68
Amen. Amen.
00:24:11.71\00:24:13.05
Amen.
00:24:13.08\00:24:14.42
Yeah, you know I love
00:24:14.45\00:24:15.78
the beauty of the acknowledgment
00:24:15.82\00:24:17.22
because the acknowledgment
is in the repentance
00:24:17.25\00:24:20.26
and recognizing
in our sinful selves
00:24:20.29\00:24:23.86
that the only
hope, the only redemption
00:24:23.89\00:24:25.83
is through Jesus Christ.
00:24:25.86\00:24:27.20
So when I
surrender, when I fall upon him
00:24:27.23\00:24:30.07
that I can claim to be
00:24:30.10\00:24:31.97
that new
creation in Jesus Christ,
00:24:32.00\00:24:33.67
because He has
given me a new start,
00:24:33.70\00:24:36.00
regardless of my sinful nature.
00:24:36.04\00:24:37.77
Wow, powerful.
00:24:37.81\00:24:39.27
For me personally, I
remember during that time,
00:24:39.31\00:24:42.88
I started to read the
book, "Ministry of Healing"
00:24:42.91\00:24:44.81
which is in my opinion,
the textbook for overcoming.
00:24:44.85\00:24:48.22
And even just on the
first page it talks about
00:24:48.25\00:24:50.82
that the same Jesus
that came 2,000 years ago
00:24:50.85\00:24:53.89
is the same Jesus today,
who healed man completely.
00:24:53.92\00:24:57.69
It said, "Anyone
they came to Jesus Christ,
00:24:57.73\00:24:59.86
never left halfway healed.
00:24:59.89\00:25:02.16
That He healed them completely
in mind, body and spirit."
00:25:02.20\00:25:06.20
And when I read those words,
00:25:06.23\00:25:07.84
I started to
apply that to myself
00:25:07.87\00:25:09.44
and knew that that was a promise
00:25:09.47\00:25:11.14
that I could glean and to say,
00:25:11.17\00:25:12.71
I started to
recognize that if Jesus,
00:25:12.74\00:25:16.04
was telling me that my lifestyle
00:25:16.08\00:25:17.41
was an abomination,
00:25:17.45\00:25:18.78
He better have the
answer or He's no Savior at all.
00:25:18.81\00:25:21.28
Amen.
00:25:21.32\00:25:22.65
You know the Bible
talks, describes Jesus,
00:25:22.68\00:25:25.12
in a number of ways.
00:25:25.15\00:25:26.49
"He's the Alpha and the Omega."
00:25:26.52\00:25:28.16
Well, that's like
the alphabet A to Z.
00:25:28.19\00:25:30.76
"The beginning and the
end, the first and the last."
00:25:30.79\00:25:34.50
And when you couple that
00:25:34.53\00:25:36.40
with the text
in Philippians 2:13
00:25:36.43\00:25:38.90
that it is God,
which work within us,
00:25:38.93\00:25:41.47
to will and to do
of His good behavior...
00:25:41.50\00:25:44.17
His good pleasure,
well, He's not a quitter.
00:25:44.21\00:25:47.64
He's the Alpha and Omega,
00:25:47.68\00:25:49.01
what He starts in
us, He will finish.
00:25:49.04\00:25:51.98
And, Philippians 1:6,
I think there it said,
00:25:52.01\00:25:54.75
"We can be
confident of this very thing
00:25:54.78\00:25:57.09
that He which has
begun a good work in you."
00:25:57.12\00:25:59.99
Yes. Even the homosexual.
00:26:00.02\00:26:02.19
That's right.
00:26:02.22\00:26:03.56
"Will, perform it until
the day of Jesus Christ."
00:26:03.59\00:26:05.73
Amen.
00:26:05.76\00:26:07.10
And so, it is
through His righteousness,
00:26:07.13\00:26:08.60
as He covers us
with His righteousness
00:26:08.63\00:26:11.20
and as He works out
that righteousness in us,
00:26:11.23\00:26:13.90
He will not give up on us.
00:26:13.94\00:26:16.57
He can perform
that good work in us.
00:26:16.60\00:26:20.61
Very good. Amen.
00:26:20.64\00:26:21.98
So, I think what we've
really tried to establish here,
00:26:22.01\00:26:25.25
we want to reach not
only those in church culture
00:26:25.28\00:26:28.95
that that say,
"That this was a choice."
00:26:28.98\00:26:31.05
That, Gentlemen,
was it ever a choice?
00:26:31.09\00:26:33.09
Did you choose to be gay?
00:26:33.12\00:26:35.72
We chose to give
into the temptation.
00:26:35.76\00:26:37.79
Okay.
00:26:37.83\00:26:39.16
And, of course,
00:26:39.19\00:26:40.53
that could be a very
lengthy discussion in itself.
00:26:40.56\00:26:42.63
But, what I
came to understand is
00:26:42.66\00:26:44.67
when I realized
there was a way out,
00:26:44.70\00:26:47.07
if I did not take the way out,
00:26:47.10\00:26:49.17
then I chose to be gay.
00:26:49.20\00:26:51.81
But I chose to come out of that.
00:26:51.84\00:26:54.54
And so yes, choice
is very much involved.
00:26:54.58\00:26:57.48
But it also, if...
00:26:57.51\00:26:59.35
for my own experience
which is all I can speak from.
00:26:59.38\00:27:02.22
I was on this
train track into it
00:27:02.25\00:27:04.75
and I didn't
know how to get help.
00:27:04.79\00:27:06.65
I knew I needed help.
00:27:06.69\00:27:08.02
But didn't know
how to get help and so,
00:27:08.06\00:27:10.23
I can honestly
say, it wasn't a choice
00:27:10.26\00:27:12.09
that I consciously made.
00:27:12.13\00:27:13.46
I felt like I had no other.
00:27:13.50\00:27:15.20
And so, what
we're trying to relate
00:27:15.23\00:27:16.87
to is in church culture,
00:27:16.90\00:27:18.23
to recognize that people
who struggle with homosexuality
00:27:18.27\00:27:21.24
may not know how to
get off of that train too,
00:27:21.27\00:27:24.14
and so, by establishing
some of the hereditary factors
00:27:24.17\00:27:27.71
and some of the
environmental issues,
00:27:27.74\00:27:29.68
we're hoping to not
only educate church culture
00:27:29.71\00:27:31.85
into how to receive homosexuals
and to minister to them,
00:27:31.88\00:27:35.75
but also for the homosexuals
who may be struggling
00:27:35.78\00:27:38.22
to help them to identify
with where this may have begun.
00:27:38.25\00:27:42.52
So, Gentlemen, thank
you for your time very much
00:27:42.56\00:27:44.56
and again, Elder King,
00:27:44.59\00:27:45.99
for coming and
for my colleagues,
00:27:46.03\00:27:48.96
Wayne and for Ron
and this is Pure Choices
00:27:49.00\00:27:52.20
and we hope that
00:27:52.23\00:27:53.74
you'll come back
and join us again.
00:27:53.77\00:27:55.17