The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Hello, and
welcome to Pure Choices.
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I'm your host
Pastor Joshua Nelson,
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and we have a good one for you.
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Today, we are
talking about the break up,
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talking about
emotions in relationships,
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talking about cheating.
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And we're gonna jump
right into the discussion,
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before that just
want to introduce
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our panel once again.
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I'll start by saying that
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I'm a pastor in South Carolina.
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I pastor the
Mount Olive and New Life
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Seventh-day Adventist
Church in South Carolina.
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To my left I have Jeanne Mogusu
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who is from the seminary,
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the Andrews
University Seventh-day Adventist
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Theological Seminary.
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And she is the BSA's
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or Black Student
Association president there,
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happy to have her here today.
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We also have Kean Baxter
who is also from the seminary,
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but he is a
graduate and did graduate
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from Andrews
University Theological Seminary.
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And we also have Kim Pearson
who is the associate chaplain
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at Oakwood University,
happy to have her here.
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And also my brother, my
friend, Pastor Kory Douglas
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who is the pastor
of the Grand Avenue
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and New Life Fellowship
in Southeast Missouri,
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those Seventh-day
Adventist churches over there.
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So we have a good panel today.
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And we want to talk
about this issue of break up.
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But first, let's
talk about cheating.
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Okay, let's talk about cheating.
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What is really
considered cheating?
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Well...
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You know, I'm one
that believes that,
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you know, when I
fill out my tax forms
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and fill out other government,
you know, papers it says,
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single and it says married.
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So until I check married,
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I'm gonna have to
argue that I'm single.
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And so I just want to
put that out there from now
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and so, you know, cheating,
of course, in my context
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would be anything that
happens outside the confines
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of a committed
long term relationship,
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example, marriage.
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Oh, you are
talking about marriage?
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I think that'd be okay,
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so because see now
some people believe,
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and that's kind of I see
where you're going with that,
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that you can be cheating
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if you're in a
dating relationship,
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if you are, we talked
about, may be talking,
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if you are
courting or you're engaged.
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So is that still
considered cheating,
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that happens in those?
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Oh, yeah. I would say it does.
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I mean, if you're...
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If you have committed yourself,
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you are letting someone
know that you are committed
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to this relationship,
to giving everything
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that you have
into this relationship,
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to see where it
goes or it leads,
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and you're not
doing your due diligence
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in giving them
your full attention.
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I would say that is cheating
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because you're misrepresenting,
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cheating is misrepresenting
yourself in any way.
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So if I'm letting you
know that I'm going to,
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whatever, whether
you're dating or you're talking
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or whatever it is
that you're doing,
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if I have given
you my word that,
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that I'm going to give
you my exclusive attention
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and my actions
do not convey that,
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then I'm cheating.
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Okay, now I'm gonna be
real on the other side here
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and just challenge that because,
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okay, if I'm saying to you,
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I'm dating, of
course, we have to define
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what that means
within ourselves,
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but I mean, does that
really mean that I can't,
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that I'm now stuck with
you, I may lie to you that,
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I mean, you are not married
so what is the difference then?
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Well, I think
cheating, as she defined it,
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is misrepresenting yourself.
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So we talked about
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defining the
terms of a relationship,
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but then also
defining what that looks like,
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what the boundaries
are in that relationship.
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So if we decide
that our boundaries are,
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we are going to, you
know, just see each other
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and then I go and I
start to see other people,
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take them on
dates, go out with them,
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then I have now
dishonored the commitment
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I made to you.
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So that's what I think
cheating in essence is,
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is dishonoring a commitment
you've made to someone else.
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It doesn't have to necessarily
be a marriage commitment,
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but it's a
commitment you've made.
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So if there are no
terms or any agreements
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then it can't be called
cheating then technically.
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If that's what you
want to call it technically,
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which is why you need to puts
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terms and agreements on things.
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You need to have clear dialogue.
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And I agree with you both
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that you need to put the terms,
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you need to put it out there.
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That's a lot of the
things with relationship,
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we don't have
really much communication.
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But in the pure
essence of it all,
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can you really say
that you are cheating
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if you are not married?
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Definitely.
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I mean, of course,
of course, of course,
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you can say that
because like we said,
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cheating is
dishonoring a commitment,
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cheating is
misrepresenting yourself.
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It's like saying,
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if I steal a quarter or
I steal million dollars,
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it's still stealing.
Stealing is stealing.
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So cheating is
cheating is cheating.
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Whatever, you know,
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whatever relationship you're in,
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whether it's a man
or woman relationship
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or my mother and I.
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If I tell my mother
I'm gonna do something
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and I don't do it I'm--
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Dishonoring.
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I'm dishonoring
what I just told her.
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Okay.
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So the way you
guys are defining it,
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it sounds like cheating doesn't
necessarily have to mean,
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you know, go with
this another person
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or engage in a
relationship with somebody,
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with somebody else.
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I mean, when I think
about it 'cause I'm listening
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to what you guys
are saying, you know,
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you cheat on a
test doesn't mean you
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replace the test
with another test.
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You know, it just means
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that you're doing
something that's not fair,
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you're misrepresenting yourself.
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So, you know,
maybe even cheating
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might include more
than just going out
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and engaging in
another relationship
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while you're in another one.
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I mean, what if you
lie about who you are,
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is that cheating?
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There you go.
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And that's what it goes back
to defining what cheating is.
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Well, I want to throw a
monkey wrench in this situation.
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Say, you are in a
dating relationship
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and you don't
marry that individual
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and you marry somebody else,
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did you cheat on your spouse
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with your previous relationship?
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Mercy.
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God intended for
you to with this woman,
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but you are with woman A,
B, C or man and you engage,
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you got emotionally invested
or even physically invested.
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So you are actually unfaithful
to your future spouse.
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I think more so you
are unfaithful to God.
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Unto God.
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And not so much to
your future spouse,
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because as we define cheating
is dishonoring a commitment.
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And so you have not yet made
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a commitment to
your future spouse,
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but you have made
a commitment to God.
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So then you have dishonored
that commitment with God.
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Now there will be
ramifications like,
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you know, I talk
to some young ladies,
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you know, at
Oakwood and I always say,
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"You know, the
hardest conversation
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you will have to have
is the day you apologize
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to you husband for
giving away something
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that was supposed
to have been his."
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So you cheated him.
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But it's not that
you cheated on him,
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but maybe you cheated him
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out of something that was
supposed to have been his.
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But then we're
implying also then that God
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intended one person for us.
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And that who he ends into
relationships before that,
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that God did not intend those
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and that there's
only one relationship
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that you are ever supposed
to get into in your whole life,
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is that what we're implying?
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Yeah. I mean--
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I don't have a
problem with implying that.
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I don't know how you
guys feel, but that's--
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Well, I mean, my own personal,
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my own personal experience,
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I have dated people
and at the end have seen
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how that person played
a specific role in my life
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at that time, you
know, and it didn't end bad,
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I didn't marry them,
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but I could see
that God needed me
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to be with this person.
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You know, even my
whole being in ministry,
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it was through a relationship
that God really showed me
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that this is where
I was supposed to be.
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So I don't know if I
could say that, you know,
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since I didn't marry
that person, you know,
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that the person I marry now,
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I had cheated on
them with that person,
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if I believe that
that's who God led me
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to before this person.
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Let's pull back
into sexual purity,
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you know, and talking about,
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you know, when we
often think of cheating,
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we think of cheating
in the sexual manner,
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cheating emotionally,
whatever you want to say.
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So how does our sexual
urges or sexual promiscuity
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or sexual morality
play into the cheating
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that may take place
may be more than if hadn't?
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Well, I mean, from
that point of view then,
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you know, I think
that's where we begin to think,
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we can began to say
that we've cheated the person
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after because the
person that God led me
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to for that period of my life
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wasn't the person that
I shouldn't have sex with
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if that's what I had done.
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I'm not saying,
that's what I did,
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I'm saying, you
know, hypothetically.
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If you date that one
person God puts in your life
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and you have
sex with that person
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and then you go
to the next person,
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then may be you
have cheated that person.
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That's why, you know,
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that's why it's so
important to stay pure
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until that person whoever
God wants you to be married to.
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You understand what I'm saying?
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And I do think
that, like he was saying,
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I don't think
that God intents for us
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to be in one
relationship and then
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you marry that
person necessarily,
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but I do believe that as we
are created for relationship,
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not all of those relationships
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need to be sexual relationships.
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And what happens is we
take every relationship
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and we make them
sexual relationships.
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If I think you are
cute and you think I'm cute
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and I like you and you like me,
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let's make out.
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And if that's great,
let's do a little more.
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And if we are really
serious about each other,
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then we solidify
that by having sex.
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And so then that sexuality now
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totally changes the
dynamic of the relationship
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because in the
confines of how God created it,
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now you are behaving
like a married person
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in a non-married situation.
00:10:24.65\00:10:27.06
So now what is that do then
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to when you are
trying now to let's say,
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move on to another relationship
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because maybe
that one relationship
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is not good for you.
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What does that, you know...
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There's a saying that
you don't do permanent things
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with temporary people.
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Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Hallelujah.
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Because it makes it
very hard to move on.
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It clouds your
reasoning, honestly,
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because that sex
is a permanent thing.
00:10:48.11\00:10:51.31
We are designed to have
sex with one individual,
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bond for life, and trying
to become unglued from that...
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Because it's two becoming one,
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so when you attempt
to become two again,
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there is,
inevitably there is some tear,
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you know, tear, tearing
apart and it's very traumatic.
00:11:11.57\00:11:17.37
Yeah.
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And I would, I
would actually go further
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to say that you cannot
just, that tearing away
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doesn't just happen
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or the
difficulty in tearing away
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doesn't just
happen when you have,
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when you've had a
physical relationship.
00:11:30.29\00:11:32.45
I think sometimes we get into
even intimate relationships,
00:11:32.49\00:11:39.13
not necessarily
sexually intimate,
00:11:39.16\00:11:41.60
but emotionally intimate
relationships to the point
00:11:41.63\00:11:45.10
where you give so much of
yourself into a relationship
00:11:45.13\00:11:49.50
that is not a
marriage relationship.
00:11:49.54\00:11:52.04
And so when you
inevitably have to tear away,
00:11:52.07\00:11:57.75
it almost
becomes like your heart
00:11:57.78\00:11:59.81
is being torn apart,
00:11:59.85\00:12:02.55
even though you were
never really physically intimate
00:12:02.58\00:12:05.72
with this person
because these are essentially
00:12:05.75\00:12:08.56
a part of yourself
00:12:08.59\00:12:10.13
that you have
given to this person
00:12:10.16\00:12:12.29
that may not necessarily
have been theirs to have.
00:12:12.33\00:12:15.96
That was a fine line.
00:12:16.00\00:12:17.33
I don't know if
that's just part of the risk
00:12:17.37\00:12:18.70
of being in
relationship or what?
00:12:18.73\00:12:20.07
I mean, how much
should you really divulge,
00:12:20.10\00:12:22.00
you know, to that person
or should you really hold back
00:12:22.04\00:12:24.74
and they don't really
then may be know who you are,
00:12:24.77\00:12:26.68
I mean... Kim, what
would you say about that?
00:12:26.71\00:12:28.38
You know, I think
that the first friendship
00:12:28.41\00:12:31.61
that we need to have
is friendship with God.
00:12:31.65\00:12:34.12
He is the one we
tell everything to,
00:12:34.15\00:12:36.08
He is the one that
we invest our emotions
00:12:36.12\00:12:39.15
and our ups and downs,
00:12:39.19\00:12:40.56
and as you get to
know somebody, you know,
00:12:40.59\00:12:43.83
you, you know, you
start off, you know,
00:12:43.86\00:12:45.19
this is my favorite color,
this is what I like to eat,
00:12:45.23\00:12:46.86
those things, but
then as you get to know
00:12:46.90\00:12:49.40
the character of that person,
00:12:49.43\00:12:51.67
I think that then
dictates, you know,
00:12:51.70\00:12:54.10
how much you are allowing
yourself to open up to them.
00:12:54.14\00:12:57.47
But what I think is so
interesting about the idea
00:12:57.51\00:12:59.94
of sex is that sex is
supposed to be the ultimate
00:12:59.97\00:13:02.74
form of intimacy,
00:13:02.78\00:13:04.11
it's the ultimate
form of communication.
00:13:04.15\00:13:06.25
And what I think sometimes
we don't realize as women
00:13:06.28\00:13:08.68
is that sex does
something very important for us.
00:13:08.72\00:13:11.35
When a woman has an orgasm,
00:13:11.39\00:13:13.99
the hormones that
are secreted in our brain
00:13:14.02\00:13:16.69
actually act like
addictors and they make us,
00:13:16.73\00:13:22.26
not just physically bonded,
00:13:22.30\00:13:23.73
but chemically
bonded to another person.
00:13:23.77\00:13:27.64
And so when you
try to pull that away,
00:13:27.67\00:13:29.30
you add on to
that chemical bond,
00:13:29.34\00:13:30.74
not emotional bonds
and all of these things.
00:13:30.77\00:13:33.27
You know, Kean said, I'm
gonna coach you real quick.
00:13:33.31\00:13:36.64
He said, "The worst place
00:13:36.68\00:13:38.01
to have scar
tissue is on your heart."
00:13:38.05\00:13:40.62
Because-- Yeah.
00:13:40.65\00:13:42.82
Because then, now
you've all got all these places
00:13:42.85\00:13:45.92
that now you're not only going
to have to erase the feeling,
00:13:45.95\00:13:48.82
but the mental images of
what you did with that person.
00:13:48.86\00:13:53.23
That will keep replaying
even after you've moved on.
00:13:53.26\00:13:56.70
And let's go to
next part of this then,
00:13:56.73\00:13:58.53
because now we are going to
the break up side of things.
00:13:58.57\00:14:01.90
Okay, so now you're
in this relationship,
00:14:01.94\00:14:04.47
maybe you slept up,
00:14:04.51\00:14:05.84
maybe you did have sex
before, before marriage,
00:14:05.87\00:14:07.88
and you've been chemically
bonded with this individual,
00:14:07.91\00:14:09.94
but hey, wait a
second, you realize,
00:14:09.98\00:14:11.98
this is not the one
that I wanted to be with,
00:14:12.01\00:14:13.85
something happens, you
don't want to be with them,
00:14:13.88\00:14:15.52
okay, whether you
had sex with them or not.
00:14:15.55\00:14:18.55
Now the all time
question, how do you break up?
00:14:18.59\00:14:22.49
On Facebook.
00:14:22.52\00:14:24.49
I'm joking.
00:14:24.53\00:14:26.26
Update your status on Facebook.
00:14:26.29\00:14:27.76
Text message. Text message.
00:14:27.80\00:14:29.13
You know, we have numbers now,
00:14:29.16\00:14:30.50
you go on to
internet and you can text
00:14:30.53\00:14:32.60
the person that number, saying,
00:14:32.63\00:14:33.97
"Hey, call this number."
00:14:34.00\00:14:35.34
And you call the
number and it will tell them,
00:14:35.37\00:14:36.77
you know, the person gave you
this number because they are...
00:14:36.81\00:14:39.27
Come on, come on.
00:14:39.31\00:14:40.64
Don't stop there
without that adding.
00:14:40.68\00:14:42.01
I'm just saying, you know,
00:14:42.04\00:14:43.48
this is why four of
us are talking about it.
00:14:43.51\00:14:45.35
I mean, I believe,
as we were talking,
00:14:45.38\00:14:48.08
it's so important to
establish your intensions
00:14:48.12\00:14:51.42
from the beginning
in every relationship.
00:14:51.45\00:14:54.09
If you come into a relationship,
00:14:54.12\00:14:55.92
say, you know, we
might end up in marriage then
00:14:55.96\00:14:58.29
that behavior will reflect that.
00:14:58.33\00:14:59.93
But if come and say,
00:14:59.96\00:15:01.30
we're just gonna be
friends get to each other,
00:15:01.33\00:15:02.66
it'll reflect that.
00:15:02.70\00:15:04.03
But our problem is we just
come into the relationship,
00:15:04.07\00:15:05.93
we do things that
look like marriage,
00:15:05.97\00:15:07.57
and then when
its time to break up
00:15:07.60\00:15:09.00
we don't know what to do
00:15:09.04\00:15:10.37
because we are so
bonded with that person.
00:15:10.41\00:15:11.74
Yeah, and I got to say,
00:15:11.77\00:15:13.11
when you say that to
someone you have to keep that,
00:15:13.14\00:15:14.88
keep, you know, yourself.
00:15:14.91\00:15:16.24
You say, this is what, you know,
00:15:16.28\00:15:17.61
your actions have to show
00:15:17.65\00:15:18.98
that and I believe
the other one must hold
00:15:19.01\00:15:20.82
you accountable
to that, you know.
00:15:20.85\00:15:23.52
I don't know, I just
have a hard time with that.
00:15:23.55\00:15:27.16
Maybe I'm idealistic,
00:15:27.19\00:15:29.22
but the humanistic
approach to relationships,
00:15:29.26\00:15:32.73
I don't think that
God intended for us
00:15:32.76\00:15:35.13
to be trial and
error with people.
00:15:35.16\00:15:39.77
You know, let's...
00:15:39.80\00:15:41.30
I'm gonna get to know
you, if it works fine,
00:15:41.34\00:15:43.41
if not, then I'm sorry, move on.
00:15:43.44\00:15:45.67
The heart is so sensitive,
I really think that it takes,
00:15:45.71\00:15:52.31
it's going to
require more faith in God,
00:15:52.35\00:15:54.35
letting God hold the
pen to write your love story
00:15:54.38\00:15:57.32
and just trusting
Him that He knows best.
00:15:57.35\00:16:00.69
If you do make a mistake,
be a man, be a woman and say,
00:16:00.72\00:16:06.46
you know, I jumped the
gun, I ran ahead of God,
00:16:06.49\00:16:10.63
I'm sorry.
00:16:10.67\00:16:12.53
If you see that is unhealthy,
if it's dragging you down,
00:16:12.57\00:16:16.47
if you are seeing
things are red flags,
00:16:16.50\00:16:19.04
it's easy to overlook
them, but make a clean cut.
00:16:19.07\00:16:23.01
I say, if you're
breaking up, make a clean cut
00:16:23.04\00:16:25.78
because there is a
tendency to rationalize
00:16:25.81\00:16:28.95
and maybe you come back again...
00:16:28.98\00:16:31.45
Over and over
and over. Clean cut.
00:16:31.49\00:16:33.62
Okay, so how do you
make that clean cut?
00:16:33.66\00:16:35.69
You know, it's so funny,
00:16:35.72\00:16:37.89
one of the other
chaplains at Oakwood,
00:16:37.93\00:16:39.39
Chaplain T. Marshall Kelly,
00:16:39.43\00:16:40.93
he says, a lot of times
we get in these relationships
00:16:40.96\00:16:43.26
and the
relationship is not quite right,
00:16:43.30\00:16:45.30
the chemistry is off,
00:16:45.33\00:16:46.67
but we are so
bonded with this person
00:16:46.70\00:16:48.54
and so we really
have is that cornbread
00:16:48.57\00:16:51.21
and we try to put icing on
top of it and call it cake.
00:16:51.24\00:16:54.64
We've got to put the sex
on top of a messy situation
00:16:54.68\00:16:59.11
and say, its something
good, when it's really,
00:16:59.15\00:17:01.92
it's not cake, it's
icing with cornbread.
00:17:01.95\00:17:04.39
And you can't fix that,
you need to get rid of it
00:17:04.42\00:17:07.76
and start over.
00:17:07.79\00:17:09.12
And so I think too often times,
00:17:09.16\00:17:11.03
we start with a messy foundation
00:17:11.06\00:17:13.60
and that we trying to
put good things on top
00:17:13.63\00:17:16.33
and say, "Look,
it's all better now."
00:17:16.36\00:17:18.50
And like what Kean said,
00:17:18.53\00:17:19.87
sometimes you just
got to cut that thing,
00:17:19.90\00:17:21.24
like I think that
sometimes we have misconceptions
00:17:21.27\00:17:22.67
that after you break
up we need to be friends
00:17:22.70\00:17:24.64
because we're Christians.
00:17:24.67\00:17:26.27
Sometimes you just need
to let it go, walk away.
00:17:26.31\00:17:29.78
Okay, so, okay, let it
be a little role play here,
00:17:29.81\00:17:33.01
you know.
00:17:33.05\00:17:35.58
Kory, Jeanne, you're
in relationship, man.
00:17:35.62\00:17:38.82
You guys got to break
this thing off though.
00:17:38.85\00:17:41.06
Jeanne, I want
you, I want you...
00:17:41.09\00:17:42.42
How would you
break up with Kory?
00:17:42.46\00:17:44.03
What would you say?
00:17:44.06\00:17:45.39
What would be something,
you know, Christian to say?
00:17:45.43\00:17:47.36
What would you say?
00:17:47.40\00:17:48.73
Putting you on the spot here.
00:17:48.76\00:17:50.10
Wow, okay.
00:17:50.13\00:17:51.47
Well, Kory--
00:17:51.50\00:17:52.83
It's me, isn't it?
00:17:52.87\00:17:57.04
It's not me, it's you.
00:17:57.07\00:18:01.68
But no, no, no,
it's not you, it's me.
00:18:01.71\00:18:03.75
You know, I need
to spend time with God
00:18:03.78\00:18:07.08
and in recognizing that
my relationship with God
00:18:07.12\00:18:09.62
has not been what it used to be,
00:18:09.65\00:18:11.79
I have now
substituted you for God.
00:18:11.82\00:18:14.66
And that is not
where I need to be.
00:18:14.69\00:18:17.89
So I'm trying to get to a place
00:18:17.93\00:18:21.10
where God and I are closer
00:18:21.13\00:18:23.40
and I don't feel
like this relationship
00:18:23.43\00:18:26.57
is helping me get to
where I need to be with God.
00:18:26.60\00:18:30.54
So I'm sorry, you
know, that I, you know--
00:18:30.57\00:18:34.61
Okay.
00:18:34.64\00:18:35.98
First of all, I
accept. That's fine.
00:18:36.01\00:18:37.35
Yeah.
00:18:37.38\00:18:38.71
Now she spiritualized it?
00:18:38.75\00:18:40.38
Did it make you feel better?
00:18:40.42\00:18:41.75
You know, I was gonna say too
00:18:41.78\00:18:43.12
because I have been in
situations of my immaturity
00:18:43.15\00:18:44.99
where I have
spiritualized a break up
00:18:45.02\00:18:46.72
because I knew that the
person can't argue with it.
00:18:46.76\00:18:48.76
Just gonna be for real.
00:18:48.79\00:18:50.13
You know, I said,
like I said, long time ago,
00:18:50.16\00:18:52.39
spiritual maturity, you
know, but I think the key
00:18:52.43\00:18:54.66
to what Jeanne does
is that she is honest.
00:18:54.70\00:18:57.63
And I believe that
you have to be honest
00:18:57.67\00:19:00.90
and you have to communicate.
00:19:00.94\00:19:02.40
Remember, now we
believe that God is the one
00:19:02.44\00:19:04.97
who leads us to people.
00:19:05.01\00:19:06.41
We have the faith
that we follow Him
00:19:06.44\00:19:08.21
knowing that the
success in that relationship
00:19:08.24\00:19:09.74
depends on Him.
00:19:09.78\00:19:11.25
So when it doesn't work out
00:19:11.28\00:19:12.61
we have to say
also it doesn't work out
00:19:12.65\00:19:15.12
because its not what
God intents to work out
00:19:15.15\00:19:17.75
and we know, now break it
off having the faith to know
00:19:17.79\00:19:22.02
that even though
it may hurt today,
00:19:22.06\00:19:24.06
even though we may
have to get over it,
00:19:24.09\00:19:25.43
even though this
person may not like it,
00:19:25.46\00:19:27.30
we may not like it,
00:19:27.33\00:19:28.66
that because God
is gonna say control
00:19:28.70\00:19:30.93
let's just be honest.
00:19:30.97\00:19:32.33
And because He is
the God of all comfort,
00:19:32.37\00:19:34.40
He will bring me through,
00:19:34.44\00:19:35.87
through
whatever pain I'm feeling
00:19:35.90\00:19:37.47
and He will
restore me to a newer
00:19:37.51\00:19:39.27
and probably, and more
likely, a better relationship.
00:19:39.31\00:19:41.68
And I will say, that was,
that was pretty nice though.
00:19:41.71\00:19:45.31
But I also like what Kory said,
00:19:45.35\00:19:47.88
you know, going back
to that there was a time
00:19:47.92\00:19:51.12
when you
spiritualized something.
00:19:51.15\00:19:52.82
Now the fact of the matter is
00:19:52.85\00:19:54.62
if God has not be playing
any role in my relationship,
00:19:54.66\00:19:58.86
you know,
bringing Him at the end
00:19:58.89\00:20:00.40
is kind of like
using God as a scapegoat,
00:20:00.43\00:20:02.83
which is not real and
people do see through that.
00:20:02.86\00:20:06.03
You know, they may not
be able to argue with it,
00:20:06.07\00:20:07.74
but they'll see
through it and they will,
00:20:07.77\00:20:10.97
and that's where you have
this antagonistic break ups
00:20:11.01\00:20:14.28
where I see you
and the next thing
00:20:14.31\00:20:16.28
you know it's,
shots being fired.
00:20:16.31\00:20:19.55
Yeah.
00:20:19.58\00:20:21.68
You know, you are not in
a parking lot by yourself
00:20:21.72\00:20:24.65
because someone may run...
00:20:24.69\00:20:26.65
Oh, come on.
00:20:26.69\00:20:28.02
What kind of break up that is?
00:20:28.06\00:20:30.06
A serious break up.
00:20:30.09\00:20:32.26
But I get what
you're saying, Jeanne.
00:20:32.29\00:20:34.40
You know, I
think part of the issue
00:20:34.43\00:20:36.03
is break ups
aren't break ups anymore.
00:20:36.06\00:20:37.83
Break ups are divorces.
00:20:37.87\00:20:39.20
Yeah. That's true. Yeah.
00:20:39.23\00:20:40.57
And the reason why
break ups hurts so bad
00:20:40.60\00:20:44.07
is because it's not
just ending a friendship
00:20:44.11\00:20:47.34
with the intent to marriage,
00:20:47.38\00:20:48.84
its not just ending
a dating relationship,
00:20:48.88\00:20:51.68
you're breaking up with someone
00:20:51.71\00:20:53.82
you put in the
place of your spouse.
00:20:53.85\00:20:56.28
You are cooking together,
00:20:56.32\00:20:57.92
you washing
each other's clothes,
00:20:57.95\00:21:00.12
you're, you know, pretty
much, you know, living together,
00:21:00.16\00:21:03.79
spending the night
in each other's houses,
00:21:03.83\00:21:05.29
you're doing all of these things
00:21:05.33\00:21:07.23
that look like marital actions.
00:21:07.26\00:21:10.27
And you invest
yourself emotionally
00:21:10.30\00:21:11.93
and all of sudden when
that person isn't in your life,
00:21:11.97\00:21:15.20
you feel
literally like a divorce
00:21:15.24\00:21:17.41
'cause you've
broken up with that person,
00:21:17.44\00:21:18.91
you've separated
your life from them.
00:21:18.94\00:21:21.48
And so too often, we
make, I like that saying,
00:21:21.51\00:21:24.21
you know, some people
are there for a moment,
00:21:24.25\00:21:26.25
a season, and a lifetime.
00:21:26.28\00:21:27.98
We make moment people
00:21:28.02\00:21:30.05
and seasonal
people, lifetime people
00:21:30.09\00:21:33.09
and they're not
supposed to be there.
00:21:33.12\00:21:34.62
Yeah. Okay.
00:21:34.66\00:21:37.16
I mean, I have a
lot I wanted to say.
00:21:37.19\00:21:40.46
But what Kim was saying is true.
00:21:40.50\00:21:43.43
I think what we have...
00:21:43.47\00:21:45.60
A lot of the
fallout from relationships
00:21:45.63\00:21:49.54
stem from how we
approach the situation, dating.
00:21:49.57\00:21:54.01
Like we you said, we get
involved too much too soon.
00:21:54.04\00:21:57.71
I think one of the
things that we can do to,
00:21:57.75\00:22:01.65
kind of, hedge against,
00:22:01.68\00:22:04.32
you know, deep emotional
pain is to get family involved,
00:22:04.35\00:22:09.16
get your, get
your parents involved,
00:22:09.19\00:22:12.96
your mom and dad or both
00:22:12.99\00:22:14.33
or, you know,
brother, sister, friends,
00:22:14.36\00:22:16.90
church members
and, you know, be open--
00:22:16.93\00:22:20.47
Accountability.
00:22:20.50\00:22:21.84
You have
accountability so you can,
00:22:21.87\00:22:24.84
somebody can see the
pace at which you are going
00:22:24.87\00:22:27.41
and somebody of
course older and wiser,
00:22:27.44\00:22:29.48
hopefully, spiritual
00:22:29.51\00:22:32.38
that can help you
make the right decision.
00:22:32.41\00:22:35.65
And you know, if
it's meant to be,
00:22:35.68\00:22:37.82
they can challenge you
00:22:37.85\00:22:39.19
if you're, you know,
one or both parties want to,
00:22:39.22\00:22:41.59
you know, end the relationship,
they can kind of start talk
00:22:41.62\00:22:46.23
and saying, you
know, its not that deep,
00:22:46.26\00:22:48.43
you know, this is something
that can be worked through.
00:22:48.46\00:22:50.97
Well, I mean, just to kind of
00:22:51.00\00:22:52.60
play devil's
advocate a little bit.
00:22:52.63\00:22:54.20
I've been in situation
where family was involved
00:22:54.24\00:22:57.67
and all that did was add
pressure to the situation,
00:22:57.71\00:23:01.98
you know, or, you
know, one person I dated
00:23:02.01\00:23:04.65
and the more I got
to know their family,
00:23:04.68\00:23:06.88
the more I
realized that they were
00:23:06.92\00:23:08.25
kind of by themselves,
00:23:08.28\00:23:09.62
that their family
members were the ones
00:23:09.65\00:23:11.02
who treated them the
worst, and stuff like that.
00:23:11.05\00:23:13.02
And so when it came
time to break things off,
00:23:13.05\00:23:15.82
I felt like if I was gonna
take with me the only person
00:23:15.86\00:23:18.49
that they really had
on their side, you know.
00:23:18.53\00:23:20.50
So I mean, what do
we do, what do we do,
00:23:20.53\00:23:22.33
in that kind of
situation, you know.
00:23:22.36\00:23:24.47
And for me, I'll tell you
what I did and it how worked.
00:23:24.50\00:23:27.80
I didn't have to
break anything off
00:23:27.84\00:23:29.44
and I'm gonna tell you...
00:23:29.47\00:23:30.81
I'm so serious.
00:23:30.84\00:23:32.17
You know, I prayed the
prayer and it sounds so cliche.
00:23:32.21\00:23:34.41
I said, God, I'm
just telling You,
00:23:34.44\00:23:36.68
I've got myself
into some messes.
00:23:36.71\00:23:38.25
You know, I'm in a situation.
00:23:38.28\00:23:40.55
I need for You
take out of my life
00:23:40.58\00:23:42.08
that which does
not need to be there.
00:23:42.12\00:23:43.65
This person
doesn't need to be there
00:23:43.69\00:23:45.02
and that's how I'm feeling,
00:23:45.05\00:23:46.39
if that is the
truth of the situation,
00:23:46.42\00:23:47.92
God, please them out.
00:23:47.96\00:23:49.32
And I being, I mean, God
has taken people out of my life.
00:23:49.36\00:23:53.29
I mean, I've had people
call me out of blue and say,
00:23:53.33\00:23:55.96
"Man, you this
really isn't gonna work.
00:23:56.00\00:23:57.47
I don't know why, this
is just how I feel today."
00:23:57.50\00:23:59.67
And I'm like,
"Well, praise God."
00:23:59.70\00:24:01.04
You know, they're
expecting me to be like,
00:24:01.07\00:24:03.14
"Wow, you know, what
can we do to make it work?"
00:24:03.17\00:24:05.87
And I'm thinking--
00:24:05.91\00:24:07.24
I'm breathing a sigh of
relief like, thank You, Jesus,
00:24:07.28\00:24:08.94
you know, for
allowing for this thing to end,
00:24:08.98\00:24:11.41
you know, in a way that that,
00:24:11.45\00:24:12.88
you know, that
worked for both of us.
00:24:12.91\00:24:14.92
Grace. Grace.
00:24:14.95\00:24:16.28
Codependency I think is an issue
00:24:16.32\00:24:18.35
that I think people
face in relationships
00:24:18.39\00:24:20.56
where they feel like,
00:24:20.59\00:24:21.92
if I let this person
go I'm all they have,
00:24:21.96\00:24:24.79
they are all I have,
00:24:24.83\00:24:26.59
we are each others
support system, I can't--
00:24:26.63\00:24:29.03
You don't what to be mean.
Yeah, I don't want to be mean.
00:24:29.06\00:24:31.07
I can't leave them because
what will they think of me.
00:24:31.10\00:24:34.27
You know, we don't want to
be the bad guy or whatever.
00:24:34.30\00:24:37.04
And so we use all
these different reasons
00:24:37.07\00:24:39.81
to play out of it,
00:24:39.84\00:24:41.41
but sometimes you just
got to do what you got to do.
00:24:41.44\00:24:44.45
Like, if you are mature enough
to get into a relationship,
00:24:44.48\00:24:48.32
then I would,
eventually I would hope to say
00:24:48.35\00:24:50.72
that you are now mature enough
also to allow God to lead you
00:24:50.75\00:24:54.26
when it's time for you to
get out of that relationship.
00:24:54.29\00:24:55.62
I mean, 'cause you
can't stay with somebody
00:24:55.66\00:24:57.69
for them, you know.
00:24:57.73\00:24:59.06
I mean, and that's kind
of the guilt trip sometimes,
00:24:59.09\00:25:01.73
you know, get's
put on you, you know.
00:25:01.76\00:25:03.73
Just staying there
because you want to,
00:25:03.77\00:25:06.23
you know, don't
hurt that person,
00:25:06.27\00:25:07.60
but really you're gonna
marry that person just for them,
00:25:07.64\00:25:09.67
what about, you
know, if it's not right?
00:25:09.70\00:25:11.51
So you have to really be honest
and real about that situation.
00:25:11.54\00:25:16.21
So let's keep going on here
00:25:16.24\00:25:18.05
and I want to talk
about leading someone on.
00:25:18.08\00:25:21.88
Because now there's
the other side of it,
00:25:21.92\00:25:23.25
okay, because now it's hard
to get out of the relationship
00:25:23.28\00:25:25.29
because well, you've done
something, you've led them on.
00:25:25.32\00:25:28.16
So how do you keep
from leading someone on?
00:25:28.19\00:25:31.63
Well--
00:25:31.66\00:25:34.43
Mercy.
00:25:34.46\00:25:35.83
Again, I mean, you
have to really trust,
00:25:35.86\00:25:40.40
we have to trust
God more in this thing
00:25:40.44\00:25:44.51
because you can see
somebody and you say,
00:25:44.54\00:25:47.81
"Wow, she is really, you know,
attractive and you go for it."
00:25:47.84\00:25:50.98
And I've been there,
you know, and sometimes
00:25:51.01\00:25:54.98
it doesn't take too
long to realize that wow,
00:25:55.02\00:25:57.95
that's a mistake.
00:25:57.99\00:25:59.32
Yeah, let's try
to reel that back in,
00:25:59.35\00:26:02.02
but, you know,
interest has already,
00:26:02.06\00:26:04.99
you know, sparked
00:26:05.03\00:26:06.80
and it's if I had been a
little bit slower, if I had--
00:26:06.83\00:26:11.43
More prayerful.
00:26:11.47\00:26:12.80
Have been more prayerful
00:26:12.83\00:26:14.17
and allow God to take the reins,
00:26:14.20\00:26:17.37
take initiative,
00:26:17.41\00:26:18.94
I think we can
certainly, leading people on.
00:26:18.97\00:26:21.81
I don't think
that it's necessary.
00:26:21.84\00:26:25.55
And these things are
called "friendationships"
00:26:25.58\00:26:29.45
where you are
like you're friends,
00:26:29.48\00:26:31.15
but you act like you
are in a relationship,
00:26:31.19\00:26:33.15
you flirt, you
bring each other things,
00:26:33.19\00:26:35.62
you're texting,
you're staying up
00:26:35.66\00:26:37.33
all hours of the
night talking on the phone
00:26:37.36\00:26:39.46
and then you want
to say, "Oh, wait.
00:26:39.49\00:26:41.40
We were just friends."
00:26:41.43\00:26:42.96
And so I think there needs to be
00:26:43.00\00:26:44.33
that clear communication,
you know, between two people,
00:26:44.37\00:26:48.07
but also, you need to
know what your interest is.
00:26:48.10\00:26:50.37
Like, be--
00:26:50.41\00:26:52.31
If you would just be
straight up, just be honest.
00:26:52.34\00:26:55.04
It might hurt
initially, but, you know--
00:26:55.08\00:26:58.38
Real quick.
00:26:58.41\00:26:59.75
And I like what
Kory said earlier,
00:26:59.78\00:27:01.42
you know, where he
was praying for the Lord
00:27:01.45\00:27:03.35
to remove people out of his life
00:27:03.39\00:27:05.52
'cause I know
now as I grow older
00:27:05.55\00:27:08.32
there are times when,
00:27:08.36\00:27:09.96
you know, when I
start to see that
00:27:09.99\00:27:11.76
may be there's
something starting out
00:27:11.79\00:27:14.73
I'll say, "God please, if this
is something that needs to be,
00:27:14.76\00:27:18.60
you know, this is
something that needs to move on,
00:27:18.63\00:27:21.17
you know, let it go
away, it needs to go.
00:27:21.20\00:27:22.97
But if it's not, then
take that person out."
00:27:23.00\00:27:24.84
And I will testify,
00:27:24.87\00:27:26.21
the Lord does remove
people out of your life.
00:27:26.24\00:27:29.08
Amen. Praise God
for it. That grace.
00:27:29.11\00:27:31.21
So that's our program,
we didn't exhaust it all,
00:27:31.25\00:27:33.52
but that's our
program for today.
00:27:33.55\00:27:34.88
I just want to
leave you with this,
00:27:34.92\00:27:37.12
do unto others what you
would have them do unto you,
00:27:37.15\00:27:38.65
and esteem others
better than yourselves.
00:27:38.69\00:27:40.76
Remember that
relationships are serious.
00:27:40.79\00:27:43.06
You got to be
careful how you get into them
00:27:43.09\00:27:44.46
and how you get out of them.
00:27:44.49\00:27:45.93
And so just remember to
always keep it before the Lord.
00:27:45.96\00:27:48.96
Well, that's it.
00:27:49.00\00:27:50.33
Thank you all so much
00:27:50.37\00:27:51.70
and remember to
always make pure choices.
00:27:51.73\00:27:54.30