Welcome to Pure Choices.
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I'm so glad you
decided to join us again today
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for another live episode.
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We're here talking about
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some hot and
very serious topics.
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And we're dealing
with sexuality and sex
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just so that we
want our audience,
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we want you all to be
able to make pure choices.
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Today, we have with us
an exciting panel again.
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We have my
brother who's been with us
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all season long,
Pastor Alfonzo Greene,
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who serves as a
pastor at the First Church
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in Huntsville, Alabama.
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We have our special
guest who's back with us again
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for another episode
Miss Sabrina Etienne,
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who is currently
a master's student
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at Southern
Adventist University,
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and she's getting her
master's in clinical counseling.
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We have my brother
here Pastor Michael Polite,
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who is with us from
Nashville, Tennessee,
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the Riverside
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
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And then Michael B. Kelley,
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pastor of the
Mount Rubidoux Church,
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all the way from
Riverside, California.
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And I am your host
Pastor Seth Yelorda.
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And we're glad to be here.
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Now last week, we dealt
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with a very hot
and serious topic
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along the lines of
sexual abuse and molestation.
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And
unfortunately, these episodes,
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these programs are too
short for us to really delve
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into a good discussion
concerning these topics.
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So we decided to
bring back Miss Sabrina
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to have her come back again
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and just
continue the conversation.
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Sabrina, for those
viewers who are coming in
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for the first
time, can you just sum up
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what we talked
about a little bit
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last week with your story?
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Sure. Absolutely.
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Last week in part
one, I discussed my story
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of being molested and
raped at 12 years of age
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by a close family friend.
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It started off as just someone
touching me, fondling me,
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and jesting to me verbally.
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And then it progressed to
a full out sexual contact,
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intercourse involved.
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And I was confused after that,
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and I was angry at the
person because I trusted him
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'cause he first
seemed like a friend
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but then all of a
sudden turned into an enemy
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when he forced himself upon me.
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And so I reported to
my mother and my father
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and to some close
family members and friends,
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and after that, we were
able to take action as a result.
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And so last week,
we basically shared...
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I was sharing with
you all the fact that
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most people out
of that experience,
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they suffer from
confusion, whether it be sexual,
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spiritual, mental,
emotional confusion
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where they don't
really know where they stand.
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And a lot of
people, most of the time,
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they find themselves
or they find the abuse
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really governing their lives
without their knowledge of it
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and they separate the
abuse with their lifestyle.
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And so they think
that they're just making
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conscious choices to live
it the way that they want to,
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but actually
that abuse is kind of
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governing their lifestyles.
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And so today, I kind
of want to discuss more
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so how to get out of that
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and what it looks like to
get out of that situation.
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And one thing I learned for
me was that I shared last week
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that between the
ages of 12 to 15,
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that's when I was
a bit more reckless,
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really reckless
as a matter of fact,
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and I was following friends
and loved the attention of men
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and things like that.
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And at age 15,
what changed it for me
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where I no longer
aligned myself with the abuse
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by aligning myself
with a higher purpose
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was giving my
life to the Lord fully.
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And at the age of 15,
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I found myself
in a place where...
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It's so
interesting the word force,
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I'll use it here in a sense,
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but someone elder
in my church said,
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"You know,
Sabrina, this Saturday,
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you're getting baptized."
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And I said, "No, I'm
not getting baptized."
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He said, "Yes, you are.
You are getting baptized."
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And long story short, he
basically put it in my face
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that I was going to
be getting baptized,
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and I accepted it
after about 30 minutes
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of a back and forth.
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And I walked away,
went home, and asked God
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to change my
heart and change my mind
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and change my life.
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And that Sabbath,
when I came to church
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and I was dipped into
that pool, God changed me.
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He began to change my tastes
and my desires and my outlook,
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and then He began, as we
were discussing last week,
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the process of healing me.
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And it was a process
indeed because my mind,
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although I had
victory in Jesus Christ,
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He still needed to do
work emotionally in me.
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And one thing that we
need to realize is that
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if you were abused, the
first step is Jesus Christ.
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I can't give you anything
else as a first step but Jesus
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because the reality
is that Jesus is the one
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who has the key to your healing
no matter how deep it goes,
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Jesus can go
down into that depth
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and find a place, a
source of healing in Himself
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and offer to you there,
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and so it starts
off with Jesus first.
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And I find that He's
the one who kind of took me,
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I mean, nights of crying
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where I would literally
deny some of the things,
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it was just too
hard to go back to that
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so I would act
like it didn't matter,
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but I saw my life kind
of following in the path.
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Jesus said to me,
"You know what, it's okay."
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And He took His time with me.
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And so Jesus was very
patient with me in that process.
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And I think about
a story in John 11
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when you think
about the story of Lazarus
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and Lazarus's
death, and Jesus saying,
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I believe in verse 4 or 6 that
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"The sickness is not unto
death but for the glory of God."
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And often I
thought about that story
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pertaining to
what happened to me
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and what happens
to so many others
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when it comes to sexual
abuse and you think about it...
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and Lazarus, he
actually did die.
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He actually did
die, so when Jesus said
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the sickness was not unto death,
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I said to myself, "Lazarus died,
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but how were You going
to use it for Your glory?"
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And God was saying that
the purpose of the sickness
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was not for Lazarus to die
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because there's a
purpose for everything
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that happens in this
earth, almost everything.
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You know, that
raises a very good question
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'cause I'm sure that
there are some viewers
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who are
watching this and saying,
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"Oh, you know, that
sounds kind of fairytale-ish.
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You know, Jesus came
in and He rescued you."
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But there are some people,
I can imagine I've met many,
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who they kind of
blame God, you know.
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They'll be like,
"God, how could You
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have let this happen to me?
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You know, if You were real,
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why would You let
this abuse take place?"
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And so they don't see Christ
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so much as their
source of healing
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so much as their, almost,
source of pain, you know?
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'Cause I was a Christian
and You let this happen to me,
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so maybe it was an
elder in the church
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or a deacon in
the church, you know,
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or someone in leadership
who took advantage of them
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and so now they blame
the church because of it,
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and then you know of course
they blame God as a result.
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How does that, you know,
even connect and resonate?
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Those are some hard
questions that I can say that
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I asked God myself, and
I found the answers in God.
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And so as long as an
individual is not seeking
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for those answers outside of God
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but is seeking God's face
when it comes to those answers,
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he or she is going
towards the right direction.
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But in the story of
Lazarus, going back to that,
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I believe Mary and
Martha asked God the same thing,
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asked Jesus the same thing,
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"How could You
let our brother die?
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That was Your very good friend.
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We sent word to You that
this was going to happen to him,
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that he was very, very sick,
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but You still
allowed him to die."
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So they were looking at him like
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how in the world could
You allow this to happen.
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But Jesus took
their understanding
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to a whole other level,
which is what I'm hoping
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viewers get from this is that
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Jesus wants to take
this to a whole other level.
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It's not about
how could You allow
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this to happen,
but evil took place,
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and what I'm going to do
is I'm about to take evil
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and switch it around
and turn it for good.
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And so He says,
"The purpose of it
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is not unto death but
for the glory of God,"
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that means the
purpose of this situation
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of the rape, the
molestation, whatever,
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I'm going to turn it around
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so that I can get
the most glory out of it.
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And we find it in
the story of Lazarus,
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He brings Lazarus
back up from death to life.
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And God was saying to
me, "One of the ways that
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I get the most
glory," God speaking,
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"is when I bring what
was dead back to life."
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And that's how the
world is able to see that
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I am truly God.
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And so when you
think about your purity
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that was taken, that was dead.
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Your innocence.
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Your innocence that
was taken, that was dead,
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things like that
that were taken from you
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that were dead, and
God says, "You know what,
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that may look
and be actually dead
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and been rotting for some
time, but I can turn that around
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and I can allow that to be
a place of victory for you."
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And so for viewers, I
want them to understand
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that God did not
cause this to happen
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but God can surely come
in the midst of that mess
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and turn it around and allow you
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to rebound from the situation.
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So you don't always
have to align yourself
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with a victim mentality
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or see yourself as
a victor in process,
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in progress that
God is taking you there.
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A wounded healer.
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A wounded
healer, a wounded victor,
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you know what I'm saying?
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I want to go back a
little something there
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'cause I think
there's something practical
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that, you know, our
viewers can learn as well
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because a lot of times
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we are looking at
a lot of our people
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who are watching, our viewers,
00:09:07.11\00:09:08.58
as those who,
yes, are the victims,
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but unfortunately,
there could be some sort of
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perpetrators in different ways
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and might not even totally
view themselves in that way.
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So for instance, if maybe
you don't mind sharing the...
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maybe the age
difference between, you know,
00:09:20.52\00:09:22.29
you and the
individual, and then also a way
00:09:22.32\00:09:24.89
to get some folks to
understand that, you know,
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sometimes the
things that are innocent
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or they seem so
innocent, you know,
00:09:30.43\00:09:32.30
and some maybe the
words we talked about,
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flirting and stuff, before,
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you know, that thing actually,
even if it's not my intent
00:09:35.60\00:09:38.74
to be a certain way
but just getting used
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to saying inappropriate things
and doing inappropriate things
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even if it's not
to that level yet,
00:09:45.31\00:09:47.05
maybe plants the seeds
to eventually get there.
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I hope that makes sense
what I'm trying to figure out.
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To answer your first question,
we were not too far in age.
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I'll say it like
that, weren't so far in age,
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it wasn't drastic.
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He wasn't my father's
age or any of that sort.
00:09:59.89\00:10:03.40
Your second question,
people do need to be aware
00:10:03.43\00:10:08.00
that it can start
off very innocent,
00:10:08.04\00:10:11.74
and that's the
whole point of it.
00:10:11.77\00:10:13.17
In my case, it
started off innocent,
00:10:13.21\00:10:15.48
it started off very playful.
00:10:15.51\00:10:17.35
As a matter of fact, I
mentioned in our last episode
00:10:17.38\00:10:20.22
that I would giggle at
times when he would talk to me
00:10:20.25\00:10:23.52
in suggestive ways
and try to touch me
00:10:23.55\00:10:26.15
because it was
like a mystery to me,
00:10:26.19\00:10:27.89
what was
unfolding, what was going on.
00:10:27.92\00:10:30.59
I didn't know
what was taking place.
00:10:30.63\00:10:31.96
And so, to me, it was
a sense of an adventure,
00:10:31.99\00:10:36.63
and it wasn't until later
00:10:36.67\00:10:38.70
when I actually
was abused by him
00:10:38.73\00:10:41.04
in a sense where he
forced himself upon me
00:10:41.07\00:10:43.97
did I take it
into full perspective
00:10:44.01\00:10:45.81
and I said, "No, this was wrong,
00:10:45.84\00:10:47.51
all of it from the beginning."
00:10:47.54\00:10:49.08
Although something
within me when he was actually
00:10:49.11\00:10:51.11
fondling me said that there
was something wrong with this,
00:10:51.15\00:10:53.78
it didn't register
because it just didn't.
00:10:53.82\00:10:56.52
I was young, it
just didn't register,
00:10:56.55\00:10:59.05
so for individuals who
are watching this right now
00:10:59.09\00:11:01.62
and may be in a
similar situation
00:11:01.66\00:11:04.06
where someone may not
have forced themselves on you,
00:11:04.09\00:11:06.33
realize it already that
if the person is fondling you
00:11:06.36\00:11:09.63
and talking to
you in suggestive ways
00:11:09.66\00:11:12.27
is taking them somewhere,
is taking you somewhere.
00:11:12.30\00:11:15.90
And there's an end to that
00:11:15.94\00:11:17.67
that you don't
want to experience.
00:11:17.71\00:11:19.77
You know, I want to kind
of throw this out there to,
00:11:19.81\00:11:21.74
you know,
everybody, having said that,
00:11:21.78\00:11:23.35
if I'm a young man,
and obviously we know it
00:11:23.38\00:11:25.95
could go the other way
with, you know, a woman,
00:11:25.98\00:11:27.95
and I really don't have
that intention in my mind
00:11:27.98\00:11:32.12
of eventually
trying to force myself.
00:11:32.15\00:11:33.72
Do you think the more
that we're inappropriate
00:11:33.76\00:11:37.69
even with what we say
00:11:37.73\00:11:39.36
and knowing
someone's uncomfortable
00:11:39.39\00:11:40.96
but we're still saying it,
00:11:41.00\00:11:42.46
and even if we're not
saying like the cuss words
00:11:42.50\00:11:44.50
to the individuals
but just that idea of just
00:11:44.53\00:11:47.87
you're not
comfortable with something,
00:11:47.90\00:11:49.24
I keep doing it,
does that bring something
00:11:49.27\00:11:52.27
out as it draws closer?
00:11:52.31\00:11:53.64
I wonder what...
00:11:53.68\00:11:55.01
'Cause I think
there are some cases
00:11:55.04\00:11:56.38
when they're
doing that, you know.
00:11:56.41\00:11:57.75
Yeah, it's a
general lack of respect
00:11:57.78\00:11:59.58
for somebody else,
and it may be manifested
00:11:59.61\00:12:02.95
in a small way
where it's just...
00:12:02.98\00:12:07.66
I guess nothing is
really insignificant
00:12:07.69\00:12:09.96
but it hasn't
escalated to forcing upon them
00:12:09.99\00:12:13.43
physically upon
oneself yet, but all that,
00:12:13.46\00:12:16.33
it's the same
principle, it's the same root.
00:12:16.36\00:12:19.00
And the root is a general lack
of respect for somebody else.
00:12:19.03\00:12:23.71
And eventually, if
you don't curtail that,
00:12:23.74\00:12:27.24
as we can see here, it
can eventually manifest itself
00:12:27.28\00:12:30.45
into something even more serious
00:12:30.48\00:12:32.31
than just words but
actual physical actions.
00:12:32.35\00:12:36.82
In my church right
now, one of the major things
00:12:36.85\00:12:39.19
we're dealing with in
our youth ministry area
00:12:39.22\00:12:42.56
are games, sexual
games that are happening
00:12:42.59\00:12:46.33
especially at the middle school,
00:12:46.36\00:12:47.70
high school level.
00:12:47.73\00:12:49.06
I don't know if you guys are hip
00:12:49.10\00:12:50.43
to the current fad out there,
00:12:50.47\00:12:52.30
but it's different
wrist rubber band colors,
00:12:52.33\00:12:56.04
so you may see
someone walking around
00:12:56.07\00:12:58.27
with a whole lot of
different rubber band bracelet
00:12:58.31\00:13:01.34
type of things and
they're different colors.
00:13:01.38\00:13:03.68
But if someone takes a
certain color off your arm,
00:13:03.71\00:13:06.51
that color
represents a sexual act.
00:13:06.55\00:13:09.25
So if I see purple on you,
now purple represents oral sex,
00:13:09.28\00:13:14.06
if I somehow get the
purple off your wrist,
00:13:14.09\00:13:17.19
then you have to
perform oral sex on me.
00:13:17.23\00:13:19.49
So that's an
example of one of the games
00:13:19.53\00:13:21.13
that are out
there that it's playful
00:13:21.16\00:13:23.97
but it has a force element.
00:13:24.00\00:13:25.97
"I got your rubber band,
00:13:26.00\00:13:27.34
now you have to
give this for me."
00:13:27.37\00:13:29.60
So the games thing is
something that's really hurting
00:13:29.64\00:13:31.94
a lot of our youth.
00:13:31.97\00:13:33.31
Yeah, just a quick
question on that point.
00:13:33.34\00:13:35.14
Are there situations where
young people are literally...
00:13:35.18\00:13:38.75
there maybe a group of
guys forcing someone down
00:13:38.78\00:13:42.98
and taking the rubber bands off?
00:13:43.02\00:13:44.75
I mean, is that something
that's manifested at all?
00:13:44.79\00:13:47.22
I know...
00:13:47.26\00:13:49.29
The only one that I've
heard of is just two guys
00:13:49.32\00:13:52.23
who thought it was funny.
00:13:52.26\00:13:53.60
One guy holds the
girl and then she's like,
00:13:53.63\00:13:55.53
"Oh, stop, stop, stop!"
00:13:55.56\00:13:56.90
You know,
kicking and everything,
00:13:56.93\00:13:58.27
acting as if she's
really trying to fight them off.
00:13:58.30\00:14:00.47
One takes off the
rubber band, you know,
00:14:00.50\00:14:02.54
and there may be
negotiations to where,
00:14:02.57\00:14:04.74
"No, you can't take that one,
you can't take the green one.
00:14:04.77\00:14:07.54
I'll let you have the red one."
00:14:07.58\00:14:08.91
So the green one may
represent going up your blouse
00:14:08.94\00:14:11.61
whereas the red
one just represents
00:14:11.65\00:14:13.42
a peck on the cheek.
00:14:13.45\00:14:14.78
So they'll let
them have the red one
00:14:14.82\00:14:16.15
because I'm
comfortable with doing that.
00:14:16.18\00:14:18.09
So it's almost like
taking this abuse environment
00:14:18.12\00:14:21.72
and turning it
into a friendly game
00:14:21.76\00:14:24.46
that I believe does plant seeds
00:14:24.49\00:14:27.93
for especially young
men who are having fun
00:14:27.96\00:14:31.43
kind of forcing these
girls to do things in jest.
00:14:31.47\00:14:34.20
The message that it
sends after, that's serious.
00:14:34.24\00:14:36.60
Eventually gets out of
control, and that's exactly
00:14:36.64\00:14:39.84
where I believe in
the spiritual warfare
00:14:39.87\00:14:42.08
where the devil
wants us where we think
00:14:42.11\00:14:43.51
it's something playful, fun,
and then you're out of control
00:14:43.55\00:14:47.62
because he takes full
control of the situation.
00:14:47.65\00:14:50.15
And I believe when I
think about my offender,
00:14:50.19\00:14:52.62
I don't think he meant
to that day, maybe he did,
00:14:52.65\00:14:56.62
but in my mind I say to myself,
"He went out of control,"
00:14:56.66\00:15:01.40
and I think at some
point, he felt like he had
00:15:01.43\00:15:03.03
some sort of
control over the situation
00:15:03.06\00:15:05.17
where he stopped
at a certain point
00:15:05.20\00:15:06.77
but he lost it,
he told he lost it
00:15:06.80\00:15:08.57
and he pushed himself on me
00:15:08.60\00:15:10.27
because when someone's
pushing themselves on you
00:15:10.31\00:15:11.97
when you say no,
00:15:12.01\00:15:13.51
they don't have
control over themselves.
00:15:13.54\00:15:15.34
If they did and they
were in their right mind,
00:15:15.38\00:15:17.45
they would say,
"Oh, my goodness,
00:15:17.48\00:15:18.81
let me snap out of this.
00:15:18.85\00:15:21.08
You know, what am I doing?"
00:15:21.12\00:15:22.45
But they were losing
control of themselves.
00:15:22.48\00:15:24.45
And so we have to realize
00:15:24.49\00:15:25.82
that something
that seems so innocent
00:15:25.85\00:15:27.99
can lead you to a full-fledged
perpetrator, offender
00:15:28.02\00:15:31.93
where you have no
control of yourself, and so...
00:15:31.96\00:15:34.70
Which has serious
repercussions, you know.
00:15:34.73\00:15:36.77
And I know that seems harsh,
00:15:36.80\00:15:38.17
but I think it's really
important for, you know,
00:15:38.20\00:15:40.20
everyone at home to know that
sin usually doesn't start out,
00:15:40.24\00:15:44.81
you know, let's just
use the Garden of Eden,
00:15:44.84\00:15:46.44
it doesn't start out with you
00:15:46.47\00:15:48.78
taking the
fruit to your husband,
00:15:48.81\00:15:50.35
it starts out with a
very simple conversation.
00:15:50.38\00:15:53.08
And then before you know
it, you know, it leads to that.
00:15:53.11\00:15:55.68
And that's why
these small things,
00:15:55.72\00:15:57.82
they're not small.
00:15:57.85\00:15:59.19
I mean, nothing is small.
00:15:59.22\00:16:00.56
A perfect example of
that I think, you know,
00:16:00.59\00:16:02.56
who was the serial
rapist that was convicted,
00:16:02.59\00:16:05.43
was it Jeffrey Dahmer or...
00:16:05.46\00:16:07.53
He raped and ate people.
00:16:07.56\00:16:08.90
Yeah. Right, right.
00:16:08.93\00:16:10.27
Serious rapist, I
mean, he was off the charts.
00:16:10.30\00:16:11.87
Like Ted Bundy.
00:16:11.90\00:16:13.23
Ted Bundy, that's what
I'm talking about, Ted Bundy.
00:16:13.27\00:16:14.77
You know, I did a study on
him and it really showed that
00:16:14.80\00:16:17.91
he started off with
just, you know, soft porn.
00:16:17.94\00:16:21.04
You know, he did start
off raping and eating people
00:16:21.08\00:16:24.28
and just going, you
know, down that road.
00:16:24.31\00:16:26.31
It started off with
pornography and eventually
00:16:26.35\00:16:28.25
pornography progressed
and progressed to the point
00:16:28.28\00:16:30.42
where now nothing
really satisfied him,
00:16:30.45\00:16:32.92
he needed something more,
something more exhilarating.
00:16:32.95\00:16:35.49
And so it just goes to show
that it always starts off small
00:16:35.52\00:16:39.23
and then slowly progresses.
00:16:39.26\00:16:40.86
You know, there's a
quote that Ellen White has
00:16:40.90\00:16:43.67
in Patriarchs and
Prophets, when remember
00:16:43.70\00:16:45.53
Caleb had then come back from...
00:16:45.57\00:16:47.90
Joshua and Caleb come back
and they give the good report
00:16:47.94\00:16:50.61
and then the children of
Israel want to stone them.
00:16:50.64\00:16:53.84
And I love what one of
the quotes where she says
00:16:53.88\00:16:55.98
at the bottom of the
page in that chapter,
00:16:56.01\00:16:57.81
one of those pages will
be different depending on
00:16:57.85\00:16:59.65
which one you're
reading, she says,
00:16:59.68\00:17:01.02
"When men yield
their hearts to unbelief,
00:17:01.05\00:17:03.52
they yield themselves
under the control of Satan
00:17:03.55\00:17:06.05
and there's no
telling to what ends
00:17:06.09\00:17:07.72
he would lead them."
00:17:07.76\00:17:09.42
And it's just amazing
to think that, you know,
00:17:09.46\00:17:12.29
we really don't know completely
what we're capable of,
00:17:12.33\00:17:15.16
so even that small
thing where you lend yourself
00:17:15.20\00:17:18.53
to something
that's unlike Christ,
00:17:18.57\00:17:20.17
if it's unlike Christ,
it is like somebody else.
00:17:20.20\00:17:22.64
And when he gets a hold...
That's it. You're never...
00:17:22.67\00:17:25.07
Yeah, that's what I'm
telling, we're out of control.
00:17:25.11\00:17:27.21
And we're out of
control because...
00:17:27.24\00:17:29.64
When I say out of control, yeah,
00:17:29.68\00:17:31.01
'cause we're under control.
00:17:31.05\00:17:32.38
We're actually
are under control,
00:17:32.41\00:17:33.75
but we're under
control of somebody else.
00:17:33.78\00:17:35.65
You know,
Sabrina, you said something
00:17:35.68\00:17:37.02
that I kind of
want to go back to.
00:17:37.05\00:17:38.39
You said that some
people, they blame God,
00:17:38.42\00:17:42.59
and as a result, they seek
for answers outside of God.
00:17:42.62\00:17:45.66
But you really advocated that.
00:17:45.69\00:17:47.03
Yeah, you can be upset with God
but seek your answers from God.
00:17:47.06\00:17:50.80
Can you just say a
little more about that?
00:17:50.83\00:17:52.17
I think that's
so very important.
00:17:52.20\00:17:53.54
Absolutely.
00:17:53.57\00:17:54.90
The source of all life, health,
healing, restoration is God.
00:17:54.94\00:18:01.81
As a counselor, I
still advocate God,
00:18:01.84\00:18:04.41
although I know that
counseling is very vital
00:18:04.45\00:18:06.72
to helping someone
throughout that process.
00:18:06.75\00:18:08.48
Professional counseling.
00:18:08.52\00:18:09.85
Professional
counseling, absolutely.
00:18:09.88\00:18:11.55
But your first step,
00:18:11.59\00:18:13.09
if you really want
healing and wholeness
00:18:13.12\00:18:15.62
would ideally, ideally,
00:18:15.66\00:18:17.26
of course, there
are other ways of doing
00:18:17.29\00:18:18.63
and then God
brings you back to Him,
00:18:18.66\00:18:20.36
would ideally be God.
00:18:20.40\00:18:21.76
And what I find is
that a lot of people,
00:18:21.80\00:18:23.80
they find
answers to their healing
00:18:23.83\00:18:26.03
outside of God, and
so it almost becomes
00:18:26.07\00:18:28.77
a patchy work that's done.
00:18:28.80\00:18:31.01
And so I found that
God allowed a complete work
00:18:31.04\00:18:34.88
to be done in my life although
there's still memories there
00:18:34.91\00:18:37.81
but He allowed a
complete work to be done
00:18:37.85\00:18:39.31
because He began it
and He's perfecting it now
00:18:39.35\00:18:42.08
and He's completing it.
00:18:42.12\00:18:43.82
In your situation specifically,
you said, you know,
00:18:43.85\00:18:46.69
God will be glorified, you know,
00:18:46.72\00:18:48.12
all things work together
for good, for God's glory,
00:18:48.16\00:18:51.76
what does God being
glorified, in this situation
00:18:51.79\00:18:55.06
that happened when
you were 12, look like?
00:18:55.10\00:18:57.63
Good question.
00:18:57.67\00:18:59.00
What does God being
glorified look like?
00:18:59.03\00:19:00.37
'Cause someone
can say, you know,
00:19:00.40\00:19:01.74
"How could God
get glory from this?
00:19:01.77\00:19:03.10
I was raped by, you
know, my brother or my father
00:19:03.14\00:19:05.71
or my mother whomever,
my aunt, she molested me,
00:19:05.74\00:19:08.81
so, you know, I don't see
00:19:08.84\00:19:10.18
how God can get
glory from this."
00:19:10.21\00:19:12.41
You know, I actually have
thought about that before.
00:19:12.45\00:19:15.45
Now that you
ask, several years ago
00:19:15.48\00:19:18.29
when I was at
Oakwood University,
00:19:18.32\00:19:20.96
I thought to myself
00:19:20.99\00:19:22.32
when I was ashamed of
what had happened to me
00:19:22.36\00:19:24.43
and I was secretive about it
00:19:24.46\00:19:26.33
and my close girlfriends
didn't know about it.
00:19:26.36\00:19:28.46
I said, "God, I believe
that You have a ministry for me,
00:19:28.50\00:19:31.43
but how in the
world can You use this?"
00:19:31.47\00:19:34.04
I mean, this just seems like
you just keep it under wraps
00:19:34.07\00:19:37.54
and you just go
about your business,
00:19:37.57\00:19:39.27
and then God really
began to work on my heart
00:19:39.31\00:19:41.24
and showed me that this was...
00:19:41.28\00:19:43.38
I know that this was
inflicted to me by the enemy
00:19:43.41\00:19:46.61
but God is going to
use it not only to bring me
00:19:46.65\00:19:48.85
spiritual wholeness and healing
00:19:48.88\00:19:50.35
but to help others to get up
out of that situation as well
00:19:50.39\00:19:53.49
or to help
prevent those situations
00:19:53.52\00:19:55.12
from taking place for others.
00:19:55.16\00:19:56.66
And so, for me, that whole idea
of helping others with my story
00:19:56.69\00:20:02.80
is how I see God getting
the most glory out of it.
00:20:02.83\00:20:06.97
I'm sorry, I just think that...
00:20:07.00\00:20:09.20
I just was want to make
sure we underline the fact
00:20:09.24\00:20:11.17
just to make sure it's clear.
00:20:11.21\00:20:12.54
Yeah, I think so.
Just as far as, you know...
00:20:12.57\00:20:14.28
Just answering the question
about God never intended
00:20:14.31\00:20:17.38
for any of these
things to happen.
00:20:17.41\00:20:18.98
You know, and I think that
it's easy for any of us to...
00:20:19.01\00:20:23.28
It's easy to
blame God. Sin was...
00:20:23.32\00:20:26.42
I mean, we're
getting theological here,
00:20:26.45\00:20:27.79
but sin was the
choice of humanity,
00:20:27.82\00:20:30.33
and what God does
is, in these terrible,
00:20:30.36\00:20:34.00
awful situations
that we have chosen,
00:20:34.03\00:20:37.93
He somehow, someway
takes those situations
00:20:37.97\00:20:41.60
and actually turns
them around for our benefit
00:20:41.64\00:20:44.04
and for our good.
00:20:44.07\00:20:45.51
And so I just want to
underline the fact for those
00:20:45.54\00:20:47.84
that may have experienced
these very tragic things
00:20:47.88\00:20:50.91
that it was
never God's intention
00:20:50.95\00:20:52.38
for these things to happen,
00:20:52.41\00:20:53.85
that the only reason
why they were allowed
00:20:53.88\00:20:55.88
is because it's really
the choice of humanity.
00:20:55.92\00:20:58.09
But what the awesome
thing about God is that
00:20:58.12\00:20:59.75
He always somehow finds a
way in His calculus to work
00:20:59.79\00:21:03.99
just the most horrific,
terrible situations out
00:21:04.03\00:21:07.03
and use them for your benefit.
00:21:07.06\00:21:09.23
And that kind of
confounds the enemy
00:21:09.26\00:21:11.50
because he's
trying to destroy you,
00:21:11.53\00:21:13.13
but God uses it and it
actually becomes a blessing.
00:21:13.17\00:21:15.64
And I think the text
that speaks very much
00:21:15.67\00:21:18.14
to that story,
Joseph with his brothers,
00:21:18.17\00:21:19.61
he looks at them, he
says, "You meant it for evil.
00:21:19.64\00:21:21.78
You literally
meant this for evil."
00:21:21.81\00:21:23.14
But, you know, God's
going to make this for good.
00:21:23.18\00:21:26.61
And I actually like
the Hebrew word there
00:21:26.65\00:21:28.92
'cause when you say
meant, it's like, oh, well,
00:21:28.95\00:21:30.69
God meant that, but the Hebrew
actually means He weaved it.
00:21:30.72\00:21:33.66
So it means you were meaning it
00:21:33.69\00:21:35.22
to be this way,
but then He took it
00:21:35.26\00:21:37.33
and just made a
completely different,
00:21:37.36\00:21:38.83
you know, pattern out of that.
00:21:38.86\00:21:40.20
The major key is,
what Sabrina said earlier
00:21:40.23\00:21:42.60
about finding
your answers in God,
00:21:42.63\00:21:46.17
when we think of how the
whole sin issue happened,
00:21:46.20\00:21:49.67
the serpent was able to get
Eve to start asking questions,
00:21:49.70\00:21:54.74
what would the
story be like if it said
00:21:54.78\00:21:57.08
and she walked from
the tree and went to God
00:21:57.11\00:22:00.22
and asked Him about it.
00:22:00.25\00:22:01.92
I think the whole story...
00:22:01.95\00:22:03.28
As opposed to
asking the serpent.
00:22:03.32\00:22:04.65
Instead of trying to
figure it out within herself,
00:22:04.69\00:22:08.29
figure it out with
the serpent's help.
00:22:08.32\00:22:10.56
No, if she had
just stopped and said,
00:22:10.59\00:22:12.46
"Well, I'm going to ask
God about what you're saying."
00:22:12.49\00:22:14.63
And try to go to God. Right.
00:22:14.66\00:22:16.53
I think the whole Genesis
story changes from that point
00:22:16.56\00:22:20.40
because God gets
to speak for Himself.
00:22:20.44\00:22:22.64
Sadly, she doesn't.
00:22:22.67\00:22:24.51
And her trying to
resolve it within herself
00:22:24.54\00:22:26.51
now she ends up
hurting her loved one.
00:22:26.54\00:22:28.68
Bible says she takes
the fruit to Adam, you know,
00:22:28.71\00:22:30.98
and we have
counseled, we have talked,
00:22:31.01\00:22:34.18
we have heard and read
about stories of people
00:22:34.22\00:22:36.62
trying to find
answers to God questions,
00:22:36.65\00:22:40.02
questions that God can answer.
00:22:40.06\00:22:41.92
And in that journey, you
just end up hurting people.
00:22:41.96\00:22:43.96
Yeah, that's a good point.
00:22:43.99\00:22:45.33
And I think that if we as
in the ministry and counseling
00:22:45.36\00:22:50.27
that if we're going to believe
in a theology where although
00:22:50.30\00:22:53.90
the devil is strong
but God is stronger,
00:22:53.94\00:22:56.84
then we have to believe
in the resiliency of man.
00:22:56.87\00:22:59.24
And resiliency means no
matter what comes your way,
00:22:59.27\00:23:02.11
you can still
come up out of that
00:23:02.14\00:23:04.21
with the help of God.
00:23:04.25\00:23:05.58
And in counseling,
I always tell people,
00:23:05.61\00:23:08.55
"You know what, you can do this,
00:23:08.58\00:23:10.09
you can work this
out," but sometimes
00:23:10.12\00:23:11.75
the self-determination
and when you flip that now,
00:23:11.79\00:23:14.36
when you put God
as the center of it
00:23:14.39\00:23:16.26
and God as the
sole person responsible
00:23:16.29\00:23:19.03
for helping you and to
bring you back to healing,
00:23:19.06\00:23:21.60
there's nothing
that's impossible with God.
00:23:21.63\00:23:24.03
And so God can
100% bring you back
00:23:24.07\00:23:28.30
or take you to a place
where you weren't before.
00:23:28.34\00:23:30.97
Going back to
the story of Lazarus,
00:23:31.01\00:23:33.27
I love how when Lazarus
came up out of the grave,
00:23:33.31\00:23:35.54
one of my favorite
authors Ellen White,
00:23:35.58\00:23:37.11
she discusses how he
came out with a countenance
00:23:37.15\00:23:39.21
that they had never
seen on his face before.
00:23:39.25\00:23:42.08
So Lazarus's life
almost seemed better
00:23:42.12\00:23:44.85
after death through Christ.
00:23:44.89\00:23:47.39
It was more
whole, more beautiful
00:23:47.42\00:23:49.99
after death through Christ.
00:23:50.03\00:23:51.69
So it's like God
can give you a life
00:23:51.73\00:23:53.96
that is even more
abundant if you go through Him
00:23:54.00\00:23:57.07
and allow Him to
do work through you.
00:23:57.10\00:23:59.70
And so I would like to say
00:23:59.73\00:24:01.14
for those who have
been victimized sexually,
00:24:01.17\00:24:03.71
this is not the end,
00:24:03.74\00:24:05.11
that was not the
end of your story
00:24:05.14\00:24:06.47
and don't allow that to mark you
00:24:06.51\00:24:07.98
for the rest of your life.
00:24:08.01\00:24:09.81
Your sickness, your molestation,
00:24:09.84\00:24:12.51
your rape was not unto death
00:24:12.55\00:24:13.88
but for the purpose of
God receiving the most glory.
00:24:13.92\00:24:16.42
Allow Him to do
that and He's able to.
00:24:16.45\00:24:19.09
You know, let me
ask this then, you know,
00:24:19.12\00:24:20.96
and I think this
goes for everybody
00:24:20.99\00:24:22.32
'cause I love the answers
that we're saying, you know,
00:24:22.36\00:24:24.79
going to God, giving it to
God, somebody here is watching,
00:24:24.83\00:24:28.56
they've been in
abusive situation,
00:24:28.60\00:24:31.17
what does that mean?
00:24:31.20\00:24:32.53
What is giving it God?
00:24:32.57\00:24:33.90
Is it reading my
Bible more? Is it praying?
00:24:33.94\00:24:35.60
Is it attending
more Sabbath school
00:24:35.64\00:24:37.51
or how does that happen?
00:24:37.54\00:24:39.74
What does it mean?
00:24:39.77\00:24:41.11
I'm going to add
on to your question.
00:24:41.14\00:24:42.94
And I want to say
what does that mean
00:24:42.98\00:24:44.88
for the 13-year-old?
00:24:44.91\00:24:46.72
I mean, that's major.
00:24:46.75\00:24:48.35
I do have a young
lady in my congregation
00:24:48.38\00:24:51.52
who had a brother
forced himself on her,
00:24:51.55\00:24:54.89
her own brother.
00:24:54.92\00:24:56.26
So when we say God is wanting
to mean it for His glory,
00:24:56.29\00:25:00.10
she could interpret it as
saying, "Oh, God's selfish,
00:25:00.13\00:25:03.97
so He allowed my
brother to force himself on me
00:25:04.00\00:25:06.94
because He wants
to get more props."
00:25:06.97\00:25:08.94
You know, she could
really take that thing
00:25:08.97\00:25:11.04
and turn it on God, so
what would be that response?
00:25:11.07\00:25:14.88
I think that when
you talk about God
00:25:14.91\00:25:16.41
getting glory
though, I think that
00:25:16.44\00:25:18.31
it's not in the sense
that He did it to get glory.
00:25:18.35\00:25:22.58
I think that He gets
glory in the fact that
00:25:22.62\00:25:26.76
in spite of what was allowed,
what the devil tried to do...
00:25:26.79\00:25:30.56
You'll still shine.
00:25:30.59\00:25:31.93
He will turn it
around where He was trying
00:25:31.96\00:25:34.26
to take a deathblow at
you, and now, "Ha-ha-ha,
00:25:34.30\00:25:37.70
what you were trying to
do to weaken this person,
00:25:37.73\00:25:40.24
I've now taken and allowed
it to be their strength."
00:25:40.27\00:25:42.84
So practically, real
quick, what does it look like?
00:25:42.87\00:25:46.07
For the
13-year-old, for a child,
00:25:46.11\00:25:48.91
even for a young adult who
does not feel strong enough
00:25:48.94\00:25:52.41
to go to God
independently by themselves,
00:25:52.45\00:25:55.35
of course, find someone
who's a spiritual counselor,
00:25:55.38\00:25:59.29
who can nurse you back to
God, to the place where you feel
00:25:59.32\00:26:03.59
strong enough to
stand on your own two feet.
00:26:03.63\00:26:06.23
In my experience, I
remember being baptized
00:26:06.26\00:26:10.10
and I did spend a lot
of time in prayer to God.
00:26:10.13\00:26:12.63
And I see that God used
my story or He allowed me
00:26:12.67\00:26:15.44
to have that process so
that I can be strong enough
00:26:15.47\00:26:18.14
to share at some
point, but I remember
00:26:18.17\00:26:20.38
spending a lot of
time in prayer with God,
00:26:20.41\00:26:21.91
but I had to let
someone know as well.
00:26:21.94\00:26:24.11
And in letting my mom
know and letting my dad know,
00:26:24.15\00:26:26.72
I knew that they were
behind me and had my back,
00:26:26.75\00:26:29.35
and so I had spiritual
parents and my actual parents
00:26:29.38\00:26:33.99
who stood as spiritual parents
for me to kind of speak to
00:26:34.02\00:26:37.09
about the situation.
00:26:37.13\00:26:38.46
So have someone to talk to.
00:26:38.49\00:26:40.60
Does that kind of
answer what you're looking for?
00:26:40.63\00:26:42.93
I think a little bit,
00:26:42.96\00:26:44.30
I guess I wanted to even
really dig further, you know,
00:26:44.33\00:26:47.07
is there, you
know, like a Bible study,
00:26:47.10\00:26:49.47
do I get a
Christian support group?
00:26:49.50\00:26:51.27
I mean, I just want
that person watching to say,
00:26:51.31\00:26:53.54
"I go to God like this."
00:26:53.58\00:26:54.91
Well, I mean, what do you think?
00:26:54.94\00:26:56.28
I mean, we're running
out of time, so I mean,
00:26:56.31\00:26:57.65
what would you
say would be that...
00:26:57.68\00:27:00.32
Yeah, you know, I
think one of things
00:27:00.35\00:27:02.22
I probably would say
00:27:02.25\00:27:03.59
is a combination of
maybe all four, you know,
00:27:03.62\00:27:04.95
you need to
spend time in prayer,
00:27:04.99\00:27:06.32
that doesn't
necessarily mean on your knees,
00:27:06.35\00:27:07.79
it could mean
yelling at God in anger.
00:27:07.82\00:27:09.89
You know, but at least you're
in communication with Him.
00:27:09.92\00:27:12.13
I think it is you
might not know what to read,
00:27:12.16\00:27:14.16
but, man, open up the scriptures
00:27:14.20\00:27:15.66
and you'll get to the
gospels and maybe find yourself
00:27:15.70\00:27:19.07
in a youth group with
other people to support
00:27:19.10\00:27:21.17
but something real
practical so that you're plugged
00:27:21.20\00:27:24.01
into God the way
because it seems like
00:27:24.04\00:27:26.27
very clear we believe that that
really has made the difference,
00:27:26.31\00:27:28.54
so let's see how to
get right into that.
00:27:28.58\00:27:30.91
You know, unfortunately,
we're out of time.
00:27:30.95\00:27:32.71
As I, you know, just perceived
00:27:32.75\00:27:34.08
with your
question and your answer
00:27:34.12\00:27:36.28
you know, I would say
to those who are watching
00:27:36.32\00:27:37.75
that it's all
about making a choice,
00:27:37.79\00:27:39.72
you know, that "The
devil has brought this upon me,
00:27:39.75\00:27:42.16
he meant it for evil,
00:27:42.19\00:27:43.53
but I refuse to
be a victim of this.
00:27:43.56\00:27:44.93
I'm going to let God get glory.
00:27:44.96\00:27:46.29
And I don't know how
God is going to work it out,
00:27:46.33\00:27:48.03
but I'm going to trust
You, I'm going to call on You,
00:27:48.06\00:27:49.76
I'm going to cry out to
You, I'm going to depend on You
00:27:49.80\00:27:52.07
that You're going
to work this thing out
00:27:52.10\00:27:53.57
for my good and for Your glory."
00:27:53.60\00:27:55.64
So if you've been
in this situation,
00:27:55.67\00:27:57.04
our prayers are with you.
00:27:57.07\00:27:58.41
We want to visit
with you on Facebook,
00:27:58.44\00:27:59.77
please come by and see us.
00:27:59.81\00:28:01.14
Go to Facebook, Pure Choices,
shoot us your questions,
00:28:01.18\00:28:03.58
your comments, your feedback.
00:28:03.61\00:28:05.01
We would love to hear from you,
and we'll be able to dialogue.
00:28:05.05\00:28:07.88
Come back and see us next week,
00:28:07.92\00:28:09.25
we'll be diving into another hot
00:28:09.28\00:28:10.62
but yet very serious topic.
00:28:10.65\00:28:11.99
See you then.
00:28:12.02\00:28:15.59
Yeah, that's a
good question and I'm...
00:28:15.62\00:28:17.33