Welcome to Pure Choices.
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I'm so glad that you
decided to join us today
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for another episode
where we are going to be
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dealing with another
hot but yet serious topic.
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As you know, all season long,
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we've been dealing
with some sensitive issues
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concerning our
sexuality, and how we, as youth
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and young adults, can
strive to live pure lives.
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And today is not
going to be any different.
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We're going to
be diving right in.
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But before we do that,
I want to take a moment
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and just introduce,
to you, my colleagues
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and one special guest
that we have with us today.
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To my immediate
left, we have my brother,
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Pastor Alfonzo Greene,
who is joining us again,
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and he, of course, is from
the Huntsville First Church
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in Huntsville, Alabama.
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And then we
have a special guest,
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and you're going to
hear more from her shortly,
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Miss Sabrina Etienne,
she is a master's student,
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studying Clinical Counseling
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from Southern
Adventist University
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right outside of
Collegedale or in Collegedale,
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right outside of Chattanooga.
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And then we have my
brother, Pastor Damian Chandler,
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who is one of the pastors
at the Madison Mission Church
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in Madison, Alabama.
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And then, of course, we
have Pastor Michael B. Kelley,
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who's here with us again,
all the way from Riverside,
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California, at the
Mt. Rubidoux SDA Church.
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And I am your host,
Pastor Seth Yelorda,
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and we're just
all glad to be here.
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Our topic of discussion
today is going to be something
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that many of us,
we've heard in the news,
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we've seen it, or we've heard,
at least we've heard of it
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in churches around,
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and that is sexual
abuse and molestation.
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And this is not something
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that is new to
anybody out there.
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You know, there's been stories
in the news about, you know,
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that have surrounded
the Penn State coaching,
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the allegations
that have surrounded
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the Penn State coaching
staff as far as sexual abuse.
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There is also the allegations
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from the coaching
staff at Syracuse.
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Not to mention, if
you go a few years back,
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the big scandal in
the Catholic Church,
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when it came to the allegations
about sexual abuse there.
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And then, there was
the prominent minister
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in Atlanta, Georgia,
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who was accused of sexual abuse.
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And so we know
that this is something
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that is just taking the
church, taking society by storm.
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And it almost seems like
the more we continue living,
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the more stories come out,
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and the worse
they get, you know.
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And so today, we just
want to deal with this,
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we want to just kind
of hit at the root of it,
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and then for anyone out there
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who has experienced sexual abuse
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or is even going
through presently an abusing,
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sexual abusive situation,
we want to give you hope
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and just give
you some real tools
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that you can use to get
out of this situation and find,
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you know, wholeness
and healing in Christ.
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We have with us a special guest,
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Miss Sabrina Etienne.
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And Sabrina, she lives
in the Chattanooga area
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and I know her personally.
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She actually works
closely with me at my church,
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and she has had an opportunity
to share with me her story
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as far as some sexual abuse
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that she experienced
when she was growing up.
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And I just want to turn
to Sabrina now, and just,
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you know, just have
you talk to us briefly
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about your experience,
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and how the Lord kind of
brought you through that?
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I'm happy to be
here today with you all.
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At 12 years old, I
went to go visit my father
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in New York City.
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And it was my brother and I,
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and we're staying
there for some time,
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and I came in contact with
a very close family friend.
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And at first, he
was approachable,
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very nice, and kind,
but beginning that night,
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because he was
staying in the house with us,
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beginning that night, he began
to kind of talk to me in a way
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that was
suggestive and touched me
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in different areas.
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And I didn't know
what to do about it.
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That was my first...
You were 12 years old?
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Yes, it was my first contact,
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sexual contact
with a guy in that way.
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And so I was just
sitting there stunned.
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And so I just kind of sat there,
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and well, laid there, excuse me.
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And he would just
touch me and talk to me,
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and I even
remember giggling about it
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because I just didn't
know what was going on,
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it was so foreign to me.
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And so this went
on for some days,
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I would even say weeks.
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Every night, he
would just kind of come in
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and touch me and
things like that.
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But then there was
one day in particular,
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I remember I was 12 years old,
one day in particular my mom,
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my stepmother, and my siblings,
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they left the house
and it was just he and I.
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And they left for a
moment just to pick up a DVD
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or something downstairs
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because my dad lived
in a very nice high-rise.
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And so they went all the
way downstairs to the car
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and decided to go together,
and I stayed with the guy
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inside the house.
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And it was probably
about less than ten minutes
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from the time they
left the home and came back.
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And he pushed me
into the bedroom,
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and pushed me on the bed,
and I remember saying to him,
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"Get off of me."
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And I'm trying to
push him off of me,
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and that's when
he sexually raped me
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and things like that.
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And I remember
hearing the door open up,
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and him getting off of me
and trying to put himself,
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get himself back
together, and I myself
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even trying to
hide the instant too
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and say to myself, "Okay,
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let me try to act
like nothing happened."
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And my life was just
a blur at that moment
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because I knew
something wrong had taken place.
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And I walked into the bathroom,
and I tried to collect myself.
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And I walked out with a smile
on my face and spoke to my dad
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as though nothing happened
and looked to my stepmother
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and my brother.
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But praise God
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because it was His
wisdom that said to me,
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there something
wrong about this situation.
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And I took some
time to think about it,
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I believe a few days, and
then I called my mom first.
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And I said, "Mom, mummy,
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this is what
just happened to me,"
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and I remember her
crying on the phone.
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I know she was
devastated at the news
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and not knowing what to do.
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And she said, "Have
you spoken to your father."
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I said, "No, I
haven't spoken to my father."
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So I told my dad and he
said, "He couldn't believe it."
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He was in shock, and
he asked me what happened.
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And I walked him
through it, and he said, "No,
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this doesn't sound like a
child who's making up a story.
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This sounds like a true story."
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And so we, from that point
on, we continue the process
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of just trying to get
help and things like that.
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And it's just been
a story in my family,
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with my immediate family,
some of my aunts and uncles
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don't really know about it,
but with my immediate family.
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We've kind of kept it
hush-hush from this point on,
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and they've dealt with it,
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and they've
reprimanded the person,
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but it's been hush-hush.
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And so it was a
journey, from me,
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trying to make
sense of what happened,
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and I remember being very angry
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at the person
from that point on.
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I can imagine. Yeah.
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Very angry, confused,
and really hoping that
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he would get some
sort of punishment
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for what was done.
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And so I called
around, and I was trying
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to take matters
into my own hand.
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And you're still 12 years old?
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I'm 12 years old, and so
I was trying to take matters
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into my own hands.
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But I praise God that
everything just kind of
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leveled out and
quieted down because I probably
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didn't need the extra
drama that I was gonna try
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to put up on
myself at that time.
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And so from the age
of 12 to 15, I would say,
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my life was
spiraling downward in a sense.
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Because what happens
when you're sexually abused
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is that, you begin to now
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acquaint
yourself with sexuality,
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with just like
immorality in a sense,
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and so you begin to see yourself
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as an object more than a person.
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And so you don't realize
it, you don't connect the dots,
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but at that point,
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I began to see
myself more as an object.
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And so if guys
gave me attention,
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I love the attention,
I embrace the attention.
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I remember finding...
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I remember going to
back to my dad's house
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that next summer and
there was a guy there,
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that I found on the
streets or something like that,
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and he gave me attention.
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I remember we'd talk, and
this is a random stranger,
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I don't even know,
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and I let him
know about the abuse
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'cause I wanted
someone to talk to about it.
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I let him know about the abuse
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and what has just
taken place in my life.
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And, of course,
he took advantage
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of the situation
and tried to, himself,
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push himself upon me.
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And so, it was just a
spiraling downward of a life.
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And so from 12 to 15, I
was very much engaged in,
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I wouldn't say very much sexual
but I was very much engaged
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in behavior that was immoral.
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So seeking the world
and things of the world,
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finding friends
who are not of God
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and going where they would go,
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and they would
hook me up with people
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and we would
just be in situations
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that were very compromising.
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And so that, in a
nutshell, is my story of just...
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At that
instance, at 12 years old,
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my life just
changing in a moment.
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You know, Sabrina,
I wanted to, you know,
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see if you could
backtrack a little bit...
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In a previous episode
we talked about this idea
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of flirting and texting
and those kinds of things.
00:08:52.76\00:08:56.46
And so I want to know
if maybe you could help,
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you say that it
started with almost like that,
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those words...
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That seemed
innocent. That seemed innocent.
00:09:03.81\00:09:05.31
I wonder if you can may be...
00:09:05.34\00:09:06.68
Because it seemed
innocent but obviously
00:09:06.71\00:09:09.18
there was an
intention behind it.
00:09:09.21\00:09:10.55
Absolutely. A motive, yeah.
00:09:10.58\00:09:11.91
So I wonder if you can,
may be unpack that little more
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for may be
somebody, who's at home
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and they're receiving that,
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what they're thinking is
he's innocent because oh,
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he hasn't gone anywhere
yet, may be if you can unpack,
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may be the feeling
in those things, yeah.
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Very good question, Michael.
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The reality is that it
always, for the most part...
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And well, in my story, it
started off very innocent.
00:09:27.30\00:09:30.07
Just talking to me
while I'm on my bed at night,
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everyone's asleep, my dad
has kissed me goodnight already
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because he loves me to death,
and I love my dad to death too.
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And so it was never a problem
with my love, with my dad,
00:09:39.47\00:09:41.54
but he kissed me goodnight.
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And then this guy just came
and just began to talk to me
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and just kind of...
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I remember, he was
doing some suggestive things
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with his body
like licking his lips
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and things like that,
00:09:53.76\00:09:55.09
and then he
began just to touch me
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and say sexual things to me.
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And I'm new to this,
this is foreign to me,
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and so I'm just
listening and it's almost like
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it's a adventure in a sense.
00:10:04.10\00:10:06.03
I'm like, what's going on
here, and it's a mystery to me,
00:10:06.07\00:10:08.94
and so I'm trying
to unlock the mystery.
00:10:08.97\00:10:11.07
And from that point
on, with the talking,
00:10:11.11\00:10:13.74
the licking of
the lips, touching
00:10:13.78\00:10:16.34
and different things
like that, it escalated.
00:10:16.38\00:10:18.48
And so most people
think that if you're abused,
00:10:18.51\00:10:21.12
it just happens like
someone just takes you
00:10:21.15\00:10:22.68
and assaults you,
which in many instances
00:10:22.72\00:10:24.85
that is the case, you know,
00:10:24.89\00:10:26.25
someone
approaches you from the blue.
00:10:26.29\00:10:28.12
However, there are
times when it's just like,
00:10:28.16\00:10:30.06
it's very subtle,
00:10:30.09\00:10:31.43
starts off subtle and then it...
00:10:31.46\00:10:32.79
Innocent.
00:10:32.83\00:10:34.16
Innocent and then
increases from there.
00:10:34.20\00:10:35.60
You know what, I want to
ask you this and, you know,
00:10:35.63\00:10:36.97
also follow up with that.
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Although, you know,
obviously you say it's new,
00:10:38.37\00:10:40.27
I don't understand.
00:10:40.30\00:10:41.64
Was there that feeling though
00:10:41.67\00:10:44.11
that I might not
understand what it is
00:10:44.14\00:10:45.87
but there's
something that just doesn't...
00:10:45.91\00:10:47.68
Sit well 'cause I'm
hoping our audience can say
00:10:47.71\00:10:51.18
even if you don't
understand, you know,
00:10:51.21\00:10:52.71
I believe the Holy Spirit.
00:10:52.75\00:10:54.38
May be we didn't
connect to the Holy Spirit then,
00:10:54.42\00:10:56.08
but something that
was like this isn't...
00:10:56.12\00:10:57.95
Yeah, something said it
wasn't right, of course,
00:10:57.99\00:11:01.02
but I believe I was
more naive at that point.
00:11:01.06\00:11:03.73
I didn't connect all the dots,
00:11:03.76\00:11:05.83
and I connected the
dots only after the assault,
00:11:05.86\00:11:09.43
the actual
intercourse had taken place.
00:11:09.46\00:11:11.43
And because I knew
that it was against my will.
00:11:11.47\00:11:14.37
And it's so funny,
because when he approached me,
00:11:14.40\00:11:16.87
when he was just coming
from an innocent standpoint,
00:11:16.91\00:11:20.08
it wasn't...
00:11:20.11\00:11:21.84
My will wasn't
there, but it somehow,
00:11:21.88\00:11:24.21
it just seem like
it was consensual,
00:11:24.25\00:11:26.18
like it was just
mutual in a sense.
00:11:26.21\00:11:28.58
But when he assaulted me...
00:11:28.62\00:11:30.09
And I know it wasn't, excuse me,
00:11:30.12\00:11:31.45
let me just clarify
that it was not consensual,
00:11:31.49\00:11:33.62
it was not mutual, he
obviously had intent behind it.
00:11:33.66\00:11:36.76
But when he assaulted me
against my will for sure,
00:11:36.79\00:11:40.20
that's when I
began to get enraged.
00:11:40.23\00:11:42.03
But then I put all those
pieces of the puzzle together
00:11:42.06\00:11:44.27
and I realized
that it started off
00:11:44.30\00:11:45.97
with what seemed innocent,
00:11:46.00\00:11:47.34
and that was the
beginning of the abuse.
00:11:47.37\00:11:50.27
I just want to add
something real quick.
00:11:50.31\00:11:51.77
And in many
situations with sexual abuse,
00:11:51.81\00:11:55.51
the victims feel
like it's their fault,
00:11:55.54\00:11:58.15
that somehow they were
part of like, you know,
00:11:58.18\00:12:01.38
they kind of caused it.
00:12:01.42\00:12:02.82
I don't know if that's how
you felt in your situation,
00:12:02.85\00:12:04.85
but I was, you know,
just kind of speak on that.
00:12:04.89\00:12:07.16
Absolutely, I praise God
00:12:07.19\00:12:09.56
because I did
think it was my fault.
00:12:09.59\00:12:12.03
For about a few
days, I said to myself,
00:12:12.06\00:12:15.50
"He has been talking
to me and touching me,
00:12:15.53\00:12:18.23
and I said nothing."
00:12:18.27\00:12:19.93
And that I let my
parents go out that door,
00:12:19.97\00:12:22.47
and I knew I was alone with him.
00:12:22.50\00:12:24.44
And so I kind of felt
like, "You know what, Sabrina?
00:12:24.47\00:12:26.27
It's your fault.
00:12:26.31\00:12:27.64
You brought this upon yourself."
00:12:27.68\00:12:29.04
But I believe it was
the Holy Ghost who said
00:12:29.08\00:12:30.58
it wasn't your fault,
and that's when I began
00:12:30.61\00:12:32.48
to report to my
mom, and to my dad,
00:12:32.51\00:12:34.48
and to whoever else I
could talk to about it
00:12:34.52\00:12:36.75
because it hit me
that it wasn't my fault.
00:12:36.79\00:12:38.82
The thing that's surprising
about your story for me,
00:12:38.85\00:12:42.02
and it is all
through the glory of God,
00:12:42.06\00:12:44.19
is it that the
process that you went through
00:12:44.23\00:12:45.89
in three days is a
process that many people,
00:12:45.93\00:12:49.13
who are abused, go through
over a course of years...
00:12:49.16\00:12:52.63
Yes. Yeah, that's so true.
00:12:52.67\00:12:54.00
Like what was it about
you, what was it that caused you
00:12:54.04\00:12:57.74
to be able to go
through the start
00:12:57.77\00:12:59.21
because you just
mentioned the feeling of guilt.
00:12:59.24\00:13:01.71
Some people feel
the feeling of guilt
00:13:01.74\00:13:03.81
even into their adulthood,
00:13:03.85\00:13:05.31
far less being
able to go through that
00:13:05.35\00:13:07.38
over three days,
go through the anger
00:13:07.42\00:13:09.28
within those three days.
00:13:09.32\00:13:10.65
And then finally,
bringing yourself to the point
00:13:10.69\00:13:12.62
of saying something about it,
00:13:12.65\00:13:14.26
what was it that took
you through that process
00:13:14.29\00:13:16.16
so quickly?
00:13:16.19\00:13:17.59
I think
immediately, at that time,
00:13:17.63\00:13:19.26
it was anger and
disappointment at the person
00:13:19.29\00:13:22.06
because I believe at that age,
00:13:22.10\00:13:24.07
I saw the person
almost like a friend.
00:13:24.10\00:13:26.30
And then when they
assaulted me in that way,
00:13:26.33\00:13:28.44
I saw them as an enemy.
00:13:28.47\00:13:30.01
And so it was the anger
that initially caused me
00:13:30.04\00:13:32.51
to go into it, but now
that I look back' in hindsight,
00:13:32.54\00:13:35.88
I say to myself that it was
God who gave me that insight
00:13:35.91\00:13:39.01
to go into it and actually
pursue in the way that I did
00:13:39.05\00:13:41.92
because had I not, I
probably would have been,
00:13:41.95\00:13:45.19
like most cases
that you stretch out
00:13:45.22\00:13:46.99
the guilt throughout years,
and you're struggling with it,
00:13:47.02\00:13:49.72
and your life is
just overwhelmed by it.
00:13:49.76\00:13:51.79
But I believe that Lord gave
me that sensitivity early on
00:13:51.83\00:13:55.53
so that now I
can share my story.
00:13:55.56\00:13:57.27
I've passed through
that situation in a sense.
00:13:57.30\00:13:59.93
You know that
something, what I'm thinking,
00:13:59.97\00:14:02.04
where my question comes.
00:14:02.07\00:14:03.41
You had a family who
kind of supported you.
00:14:03.44\00:14:06.94
I mean, so when you
went to your father,
00:14:06.98\00:14:08.58
when you went to your
mother, they believed you,
00:14:08.61\00:14:10.58
they were there, and
that might have been something
00:14:10.61\00:14:12.55
that assisted that process.
00:14:12.58\00:14:14.42
You can turn to someone,
00:14:14.45\00:14:16.25
and they're not looking
at you like you're crazy,
00:14:16.28\00:14:17.65
they're not questioning
your motive, you know,
00:14:17.69\00:14:19.69
and then they take
action against the individual.
00:14:19.72\00:14:22.16
What about the individual
00:14:22.19\00:14:23.53
who doesn't have
that support system?
00:14:23.56\00:14:25.73
In that case, they may seem like
00:14:25.76\00:14:27.26
the guilt is stretched out
longer and the recovery time,
00:14:27.30\00:14:31.17
they only have to deal
with it with themselves,
00:14:31.20\00:14:33.03
they have no one to turn to.
00:14:33.07\00:14:34.40
Which is one of the
problems in churches
00:14:34.44\00:14:35.84
because in churches
when you're dealing with
00:14:35.87\00:14:37.67
authority figures,
and figures that have been
00:14:37.71\00:14:39.97
introduced to you as someone
who is supposed to help you,
00:14:40.01\00:14:42.81
someone who is
spiritual, because one thing
00:14:42.84\00:14:45.71
that we're noticing
during this time is that
00:14:45.75\00:14:47.95
it's not that
abuse is something new,
00:14:47.98\00:14:50.39
it's finally
coming to the surface.
00:14:50.42\00:14:53.39
And now in my
adulthood I'm thinking back
00:14:53.42\00:14:55.86
to some of the people
who were in my youth group,
00:14:55.89\00:14:58.03
and in my choir,
and stuff like that,
00:14:58.06\00:15:01.00
and thinking about
some behaviors or things
00:15:01.03\00:15:04.03
that I saw with
parents or interactions
00:15:04.07\00:15:06.53
that, right now in my
adult life, seem weird...
00:15:06.57\00:15:08.50
Questionable. Questionable.
00:15:08.54\00:15:10.07
But they're now coming
to, coming to the surface.
00:15:10.11\00:15:14.58
Probably because we
just believed in those
00:15:14.61\00:15:16.81
that were around us so
much that we felt uncomfortable
00:15:16.85\00:15:19.51
really talking about it.
00:15:19.55\00:15:20.88
If you have an individual
who rather than the father
00:15:20.92\00:15:23.05
being supportive figure,
the father is the initiator
00:15:23.08\00:15:26.09
or the instigator.
00:15:26.12\00:15:27.46
You know, what do we
00:15:27.49\00:15:28.82
would we say to that individual?
00:15:28.86\00:15:30.49
You know, you
can't turn to the person
00:15:30.53\00:15:32.53
because they are the abuser.
00:15:32.56\00:15:34.30
Right.
00:15:34.33\00:15:35.66
One of the important
things that, you know,
00:15:35.70\00:15:37.33
in a situation like that, that
the victim needs to understand
00:15:37.37\00:15:41.40
is that it's not your fault.
00:15:41.44\00:15:43.41
And I think that's
just, I mean, you know,
00:15:43.44\00:15:45.24
we we've kind of said that
already but that is so key.
00:15:45.27\00:15:48.21
And it's, you know,
really that betrayal
00:15:48.24\00:15:50.95
especially from a parent,
or from a father, from whoever,
00:15:50.98\00:15:54.22
whatever uncle or somebody
in your family, is I mean,
00:15:54.25\00:15:58.02
it's so serious but
it's not your fault and...
00:15:58.05\00:16:00.59
It's not okay.
00:16:00.62\00:16:01.96
It's not okay,
and it is completely
00:16:01.99\00:16:04.06
okay to tell.
00:16:04.09\00:16:06.90
And, you know,
and the thing is that
00:16:06.93\00:16:08.30
you may be
thinking, "Well, you know,
00:16:08.33\00:16:09.66
I'm going to get
this person in trouble
00:16:09.70\00:16:11.40
or I'm going to be
doing a bad thing."
00:16:11.43\00:16:14.50
But actually, really,
you're actually helping
00:16:14.54\00:16:16.64
that person by sharing.
00:16:16.67\00:16:18.44
Because what they're
engaged in is a sickness
00:16:18.47\00:16:20.71
and they need help.
00:16:20.74\00:16:22.58
You know, I think
that the problem though
00:16:22.61\00:16:24.48
is moving from the place
of knowledge to emotions.
00:16:24.51\00:16:29.02
So some people are very logical.
00:16:29.05\00:16:31.09
So one plus one equals
two, so all I lack really
00:16:31.12\00:16:34.12
is the knowledge to
know that it's not my fault.
00:16:34.16\00:16:37.73
But then that emotional part
is like a prison, it's like,
00:16:37.76\00:16:41.20
it's very
difficult to move some person
00:16:41.23\00:16:44.00
out of that emotional space
00:16:44.03\00:16:45.47
where emotionally it
doesn't feel like my fault,
00:16:45.50\00:16:49.47
emotionally it feels okay
to be able to express in turn.
00:16:49.50\00:16:52.44
That's where it really takes
the power of the Holy Spirit
00:16:52.47\00:16:55.21
to set that person free
from that emotional space
00:16:55.24\00:16:57.75
where they can feel
free to be able to speak,
00:16:57.78\00:16:59.98
once they have that knowledge
that's it's not their fault.
00:17:00.02\00:17:01.72
Yeah, yeah, and
I think, you know,
00:17:01.75\00:17:03.22
even picking back a
little bit on what Alfonso said,
00:17:03.25\00:17:06.42
the idea of being
able to tell and set free
00:17:06.45\00:17:08.32
isn't only going
to set you free you,
00:17:08.36\00:17:09.69
it could also set
someone else free.
00:17:09.72\00:17:11.06
You know, with what's going
on because statistics do show
00:17:11.09\00:17:13.43
that usually those
who are doing abusing
00:17:13.46\00:17:16.13
they have several
others, there are...
00:17:16.16\00:17:18.40
You are not the
first one or the last.
00:17:18.43\00:17:19.77
You're usually
not the first. Right.
00:17:19.80\00:17:21.14
The other statistics you
know show very clearly that
00:17:21.17\00:17:23.30
most of the abuse happens
from individuals that we know.
00:17:23.34\00:17:26.41
It is usually not so, you know,
00:17:26.44\00:17:28.64
obviously they are
plenty of circumstances
00:17:28.68\00:17:30.81
where it does come of the street
00:17:30.85\00:17:32.88
or something like that.
00:17:32.91\00:17:34.25
But that's another
reason why, you know,
00:17:34.28\00:17:35.98
we have to be in our
P's and Q's in churches,
00:17:36.02\00:17:38.95
in our homes and
families, and all these things
00:17:38.99\00:17:41.06
because that's a place
where you kind of think
00:17:41.09\00:17:42.42
you can let your guard down.
00:17:42.46\00:17:44.09
And that's usually a
place sometimes, unfortunately,
00:17:44.13\00:17:46.93
where people understand
the guards are let down
00:17:46.96\00:17:49.40
and it almost
to a certain extent
00:17:49.43\00:17:51.23
creates an environment,
even in a more practical side.
00:17:51.27\00:17:53.94
And that we do at our
church for example is no matter
00:17:53.97\00:17:57.41
what, you have to be screened.
00:17:57.44\00:17:59.87
You have to be
monitored because you just,
00:17:59.91\00:18:01.64
you never know who is there.
00:18:01.68\00:18:04.41
I mean, you probably
would never have imagined
00:18:04.45\00:18:06.78
that someone right
there within that house,
00:18:06.82\00:18:09.48
a place you feel safe, you know,
00:18:09.52\00:18:11.02
those things would happen.
00:18:11.05\00:18:12.39
So, Sabrina, let me
ask you this question.
00:18:12.42\00:18:13.76
What effects do you believe that
00:18:13.79\00:18:16.59
someone who has
encountered sexual abuse,
00:18:16.62\00:18:18.79
you know, has on
them later down the road?
00:18:18.83\00:18:21.76
You know, like is
there some residual effects
00:18:21.80\00:18:25.00
that person will still
deal with later or is it kind of
00:18:25.03\00:18:29.47
isolated to just
that time period?
00:18:29.50\00:18:31.51
No, no, no, there are
definitely residual effects.
00:18:31.54\00:18:34.21
I can wrap it up in
one word, confusion.
00:18:34.24\00:18:36.44
There is emotional
confusion, sexual confusion,
00:18:36.48\00:18:39.08
spiritual confusion,
mental confusion that follows,
00:18:39.11\00:18:42.28
and for everyone,
its' in different degrees,
00:18:42.32\00:18:44.35
different levels.
00:18:44.39\00:18:45.72
And so you may find someone,
a young lady or young man,
00:18:45.75\00:18:48.06
in particular who after...
00:18:48.09\00:18:49.62
Let's say a young
man who after being
00:18:49.66\00:18:51.89
molested or raped by another man
00:18:51.93\00:18:54.60
in his family, in his
church, in his society,
00:18:54.63\00:18:56.93
he finds himself now
00:18:56.97\00:18:58.33
having this
affinity to towards men
00:18:58.37\00:19:00.60
and that's sexual confusion,
you see what I'm saying.
00:19:00.64\00:19:02.74
Spiritual confusion, when
now you don't understand God,
00:19:02.77\00:19:05.07
for a young woman whose father
came and did this to them,
00:19:05.11\00:19:08.64
how do you
understand your Heavenly Father,
00:19:08.68\00:19:10.28
and that's spiritual confusion.
00:19:10.31\00:19:11.65
Emotional
confusion, your emotions,
00:19:11.68\00:19:13.75
you're
depressed, you're not happy,
00:19:13.78\00:19:15.88
you feel
unworthy, you feel helpless,
00:19:15.92\00:19:18.52
and so you mope around
life, you're not the same person
00:19:18.55\00:19:22.19
that you
imagined yourself to be,
00:19:22.22\00:19:23.96
and so there is
emotional confusion.
00:19:23.99\00:19:25.43
Mental confusion as well where
your mind is all messed up,
00:19:25.46\00:19:28.23
you are walking
around and you have
00:19:28.26\00:19:29.70
very negative
thoughts towards men,
00:19:29.73\00:19:31.97
towards the
opposite sex, towards people
00:19:32.00\00:19:34.37
who kind of hold
positions of authority,
00:19:34.40\00:19:37.41
it's like your mind
is messed up as well...
00:19:37.44\00:19:38.87
It all stems back
to that one moment.
00:19:38.91\00:19:40.68
Absolutely, or
moments. Or moments.
00:19:40.71\00:19:42.98
Do people
naturally connect the dots?
00:19:43.01\00:19:45.35
I mean, well,
someone whose been, you know,
00:19:45.38\00:19:46.85
generally speaking
with a person say, "The way,
00:19:46.88\00:19:48.95
the reason I view men
this way or the reason
00:19:48.98\00:19:51.12
I'm sexually oriented
this way is because of
00:19:51.15\00:19:54.12
what happened to
me ten years ago."
00:19:54.16\00:19:56.09
Most people will
not connect the dots.
00:19:56.12\00:19:58.66
Most people isolate their
abuse with their lifestyle.
00:19:58.69\00:20:04.27
They'll say that
happened in the past
00:20:04.30\00:20:06.23
but I'm making choices now.
00:20:06.27\00:20:07.90
So I'm making choices
to be loose with my body,
00:20:07.94\00:20:10.87
I'm making choices to be
involved in drugs and alcohol,
00:20:10.91\00:20:14.08
I'm making choices
to stay away from God,
00:20:14.11\00:20:16.44
I don't care about God.
00:20:16.48\00:20:17.81
There are some who do
have that understanding
00:20:17.85\00:20:20.32
and they put the links there,
00:20:20.35\00:20:21.68
but they still don't
know how to get out of it,
00:20:21.72\00:20:23.05
which we're hoping
to talk about later.
00:20:23.08\00:20:24.59
But most people,
00:20:24.62\00:20:25.95
they just allow the
abuse to govern their lives,
00:20:25.99\00:20:29.19
and they sit down
passively watching their lives.
00:20:29.22\00:20:32.29
And they don't realize
it 'cause they think that
00:20:32.33\00:20:34.00
they're the ones
initiating, but they're not.
00:20:34.03\00:20:36.06
It's the abuse that's
been doing all the work.
00:20:36.10\00:20:37.43
The abuse is still working.
00:20:37.47\00:20:38.80
Yes and they have to
identify that and see that
00:20:38.83\00:20:40.37
the abuse actually does
affect their lives later on.
00:20:40.40\00:20:43.30
And so someone
comes down to the altar
00:20:43.34\00:20:45.41
and they're talking about
the fact that they're abused.
00:20:45.44\00:20:47.38
And we stand up,
we raise our hands,
00:20:47.41\00:20:49.14
and declare,
"You're now healed,"
00:20:49.18\00:20:51.18
you know, as if it goes away.
00:20:51.21\00:20:53.68
It seems as if
the healing process,
00:20:53.72\00:20:55.52
the healing issue is a process.
00:20:55.55\00:20:58.05
How do you go
through that process
00:20:58.09\00:20:59.55
'cause I've been to conferences
where someone that says,
00:20:59.59\00:21:02.52
"Your virginity is restored.
00:21:02.56\00:21:04.79
You're not only a new,
brand clean, like virgin."
00:21:04.83\00:21:08.56
As if the consequences,
I'm not going to have to deal
00:21:08.60\00:21:11.47
with those consequences.
00:21:11.50\00:21:12.83
How do we go
through that healing process
00:21:12.87\00:21:15.97
rather than just
raising our hands
00:21:16.00\00:21:17.34
or just declaring that it is?
00:21:17.37\00:21:18.97
I think you're using the
right word, it's a process,
00:21:19.01\00:21:21.41
it's not just an
instantaneous thing.
00:21:21.44\00:21:23.55
God can give
you the victory now,
00:21:23.58\00:21:25.15
you're cleansed,
00:21:25.18\00:21:26.51
you're restored instantaneously.
00:21:26.55\00:21:28.22
But now when it comes
to all that extra stuff
00:21:28.25\00:21:29.98
going on with in
you, it's a process
00:21:30.02\00:21:31.99
that God himself
will take time with you,
00:21:32.02\00:21:34.76
and hopefully human beings
00:21:34.79\00:21:36.12
will take time with you as well.
00:21:36.16\00:21:37.49
And so you seek counseling,
whether it be pastoral
00:21:37.53\00:21:39.56
or mental health counseling.
00:21:39.59\00:21:41.00
You go and talk to
individuals about it.
00:21:41.03\00:21:43.47
You spend some
time in your prayer
00:21:43.50\00:21:44.87
closet dealing with it.
00:21:44.90\00:21:46.23
And God understands we're,
that the abuse affected you,
00:21:46.27\00:21:49.84
and how you view Him.
00:21:49.87\00:21:51.21
For those who are, you
know, they've taken aback
00:21:51.24\00:21:53.24
when it comes to
religion, God understands that,
00:21:53.27\00:21:55.31
and He'll take his
time with you as well.
00:21:55.34\00:21:56.91
So it's a process. Amen.
00:21:56.95\00:21:59.45
You know, Sabrina, I
wanted to ask you this.
00:21:59.48\00:22:02.12
There's somebody
watching the show right now
00:22:02.15\00:22:04.79
who maybe doesn't have a
good support system at home,
00:22:04.82\00:22:07.62
maybe they do.
00:22:07.66\00:22:09.19
And they're
completely resonating with
00:22:09.22\00:22:12.03
what we're talking about.
00:22:12.06\00:22:13.80
They've been abused,
whether it's a friend,
00:22:13.83\00:22:16.30
family member or whatever.
00:22:16.33\00:22:17.90
What's the step,
what do they do now?
00:22:17.93\00:22:20.30
What would you suggest they do?
00:22:20.34\00:22:22.60
Someone who has a
good support system,
00:22:22.64\00:22:24.14
someone who
really, may be doesn't have
00:22:24.17\00:22:25.77
that mother or
father as you call them,
00:22:25.81\00:22:27.18
what do they do right now?
00:22:27.21\00:22:28.54
I'm going to break
it up into two parts.
00:22:28.58\00:22:29.91
For those who are in
a situation right now,
00:22:29.94\00:22:32.85
currently where
they're being abused,
00:22:32.88\00:22:34.95
I would say, "They
have to tell someone."
00:22:34.98\00:22:38.25
Someone that they know
can take it to the next level.
00:22:38.29\00:22:40.86
Not just if you're 16
and another 16 year old,
00:22:40.89\00:22:43.59
just confiding, no, no, no...
00:22:43.63\00:22:45.13
You need to speak
to an authority figure,
00:22:45.16\00:22:46.80
whether it be your
pastor or your parents,
00:22:46.83\00:22:49.80
if you trust them,
00:22:49.83\00:22:51.17
but if you can
speak to your parents...
00:22:51.20\00:22:52.53
A teacher.
00:22:52.57\00:22:53.90
A teacher or call a hotline,
00:22:53.94\00:22:56.40
which we're hoping to
provide that information.
00:22:56.44\00:22:58.54
Absolutely, and
so call a hotline,
00:22:58.57\00:23:00.61
go to speak to a counselor,
00:23:00.64\00:23:01.98
someone you've
seen in your church.
00:23:02.01\00:23:03.35
But whenever you
get an opportunity
00:23:03.38\00:23:04.95
to be away from that person,
let's say you're in church,
00:23:04.98\00:23:07.95
and let's say if that
person is a part your family,
00:23:07.98\00:23:09.92
they're on one
side of the church
00:23:09.95\00:23:11.39
while you're the
other side the church,
00:23:11.42\00:23:12.75
go slip into the pastor's office
00:23:12.79\00:23:14.52
and speak to the pastor about it
00:23:14.56\00:23:15.99
or go find
someone in the community
00:23:16.02\00:23:18.79
that you can talk to,
whether it be a counselor
00:23:18.83\00:23:21.26
or a legislator,
whoever it could be,
00:23:21.30\00:23:23.26
but just find
someone to talk about it
00:23:23.30\00:23:24.63
so that you can get
yourself out of there
00:23:24.67\00:23:26.00
because, in most instances,
00:23:26.03\00:23:27.60
if you are
currently in a situation
00:23:27.64\00:23:29.30
and this
happened to several times,
00:23:29.34\00:23:30.91
you're trying to
protect the person.
00:23:30.94\00:23:33.07
You need to
protect yourself first.
00:23:33.11\00:23:36.34
You count much more.
00:23:36.38\00:23:37.71
If that person loved you,
00:23:37.75\00:23:39.08
they wouldn't
have done that to you.
00:23:39.11\00:23:40.45
They don't really care
and value as an individual.
00:23:40.48\00:23:42.45
So protect yourself,
00:23:42.48\00:23:44.59
God wants to protect
you, He is there for you.
00:23:44.62\00:23:47.06
This person is taking
advantage of who you are.
00:23:47.09\00:23:49.16
And so go to someone now
00:23:49.19\00:23:51.33
and find the help that you need.
00:23:51.36\00:23:53.09
And do not
protect that offender.
00:23:53.13\00:23:55.23
Now for those who
have passed that stage now
00:23:55.26\00:23:58.60
and it's been years
since they've been assaulted
00:23:58.63\00:24:00.54
and things like that.
00:24:00.57\00:24:02.00
I would say to them that
00:24:02.04\00:24:03.37
they should
probably go seek counseling,
00:24:03.41\00:24:05.87
talk to a pastor
about it as well,
00:24:05.91\00:24:08.21
and speak to
someone that they feel like
00:24:08.24\00:24:09.81
they can confide
in, that will help them.
00:24:09.84\00:24:11.28
Because I've realized in
all of this, for the person
00:24:11.31\00:24:14.22
who's passed
that moment is that,
00:24:14.25\00:24:16.05
the worst thing you
can do is find people
00:24:16.08\00:24:18.59
who only align you
with your victim identity.
00:24:18.62\00:24:22.82
You need someone who sees...
00:24:22.86\00:24:26.06
Yes, they empathize with
what you've gone through,
00:24:26.09\00:24:28.60
but at the same time
they see your rebound,
00:24:28.63\00:24:30.30
they see you coming out it.
00:24:30.33\00:24:31.70
They see you as a victor.
00:24:31.73\00:24:33.47
And so they're there
not only to mope around
00:24:33.50\00:24:36.04
and to spoon feed your
fall, but to give you like
00:24:36.07\00:24:39.81
a handful of your victory,
you see what I'm saying.
00:24:39.84\00:24:41.54
So they're to actually get
you up out of the situation.
00:24:41.58\00:24:44.05
You don't need a
fellow girlfriend
00:24:44.08\00:24:45.78
or another guy where
you just going to talk about
00:24:45.81\00:24:47.18
because I've had so
many people just say, yeah,
00:24:47.22\00:24:49.32
I've been abused
and this and that,
00:24:49.35\00:24:50.95
that's why they
want to stay right there.
00:24:50.99\00:24:52.32
They want to stay there.
00:24:52.35\00:24:53.69
But you need
someone with the insight
00:24:53.72\00:24:55.06
and spiritual fortitude to say,
00:24:55.09\00:24:57.23
"No, no, we're
going to help get you up
00:24:57.26\00:24:58.59
out of this situation."
00:24:58.63\00:24:59.96
That's important,
that's good stuff.
00:25:00.00\00:25:01.33
You can assist
though, let's say,
00:25:01.36\00:25:03.47
I have told someone
00:25:03.50\00:25:06.67
and I've gone through a process,
00:25:06.70\00:25:08.04
I've gotten some
help, I'm better.
00:25:08.07\00:25:09.50
But I haven't told on the person
00:25:09.54\00:25:12.27
and it's been years later.
00:25:12.31\00:25:14.04
Should I still,
let's say I'm healed,
00:25:14.08\00:25:15.94
let's say I'm still
going to the process,
00:25:15.98\00:25:18.05
but I haven't really
"Out at that person,"
00:25:18.08\00:25:20.38
do I still do it even
though I am better now?
00:25:20.42\00:25:23.89
You know, I would say
as counselor in training,
00:25:23.92\00:25:27.49
do what you feel is best.
00:25:27.52\00:25:29.16
As Long as you
know as an individual
00:25:29.19\00:25:31.49
that you're getting
better, do what you feel is best
00:25:31.53\00:25:35.26
but always be
mindful that the person,
00:25:35.30\00:25:36.80
if they attacked you,
00:25:36.83\00:25:39.50
they most likely
will attack others.
00:25:39.53\00:25:41.24
And it may seem
scandalous if you let them know,
00:25:41.27\00:25:44.11
if you let other people know
who the person is specifically,
00:25:44.14\00:25:47.14
but think about it as
protecting others as well.
00:25:47.18\00:25:49.88
Even if it is years later?
00:25:49.91\00:25:51.25
Even if it is years later
00:25:51.28\00:25:52.61
because if you come
into my counseling office,
00:25:52.65\00:25:54.75
I'm supervised right
now, and you sit down,
00:25:54.78\00:25:56.69
and you let me know that
00:25:56.72\00:25:58.05
someone had
molested you ten years ago,
00:25:58.09\00:26:00.96
I have a duty to report.
00:26:00.99\00:26:02.62
It doesn't matter if
it was ten years ago,
00:26:02.66\00:26:04.66
fifteen years
ago, I have to report
00:26:04.69\00:26:06.43
'cause who knows if
this person is doing this
00:26:06.46\00:26:08.00
to someone else, so...
00:26:08.03\00:26:09.36
I want to go back to something
that you mentioned before.
00:26:09.40\00:26:11.37
So we're all pastors,
and we've had some training
00:26:11.40\00:26:14.64
in the area of counseling.
00:26:14.67\00:26:16.50
You're instructing
people to come to us,
00:26:16.54\00:26:19.07
you've mentioned some things
00:26:19.11\00:26:21.24
that we should or should not do,
00:26:21.28\00:26:23.08
but could you kind
of walk us through that
00:26:23.11\00:26:24.91
and walk the
audience through that
00:26:24.95\00:26:26.28
because we believe that
out there are not just people
00:26:26.31\00:26:28.75
who've been abused but
there's somewhere out there
00:26:28.78\00:26:31.09
who's going to be
approached by someone
00:26:31.12\00:26:33.09
who has been abused.
00:26:33.12\00:26:34.89
How are we approaching that?
00:26:34.92\00:26:36.59
What are we saying, what
do we not say to someone?
00:26:36.62\00:26:39.46
As pastors?
00:26:39.49\00:26:40.86
Just as, just people
who will be approached
00:26:40.90\00:26:43.16
or could be approached
by someone who was abused.
00:26:43.20\00:26:45.77
Okay, okay,
someone approaches you...
00:26:45.80\00:26:47.50
Yes. And they were abused.
00:26:47.54\00:26:48.90
What's some of the counsel
00:26:48.94\00:26:50.27
that you can offer
to that individual?
00:26:50.31\00:26:51.64
Yes.
00:26:51.67\00:26:53.01
Well, that's a good question.
00:26:53.04\00:26:55.01
Let's say I am
just a regular person
00:26:55.04\00:26:57.35
or let's start off with
this a regular person, a friend.
00:26:57.38\00:27:00.38
I would
definitely advise the friend
00:27:00.42\00:27:02.28
to let an authority figure know.
00:27:02.32\00:27:04.29
Empathize with the person first.
00:27:04.32\00:27:05.89
I mean, of course,
you're there with them,
00:27:05.92\00:27:07.32
you love them,
you let them know that
00:27:07.36\00:27:08.82
I understand the situation
at your end, empathize,
00:27:08.86\00:27:11.26
but let them know you've
got to let someone else know
00:27:11.29\00:27:13.60
who can do something
about it, that's very important.
00:27:13.63\00:27:16.06
Especially if the
person is going to go back
00:27:16.10\00:27:17.93
into that situation,
00:27:17.97\00:27:20.00
you must let somebody else know.
00:27:20.04\00:27:21.37
And if you're that
person, that friend,
00:27:21.40\00:27:23.57
help them out
with that decision.
00:27:23.61\00:27:25.01
Walk them through, say,
00:27:25.04\00:27:26.37
"I'll be right
there by your side.
00:27:26.41\00:27:27.74
You don't have
to do this alone."
00:27:27.78\00:27:29.11
As a pastor, I would
definitely take it seriously
00:27:29.14\00:27:32.25
and speak to the person say that
00:27:32.28\00:27:33.62
this is very important to me.
00:27:33.65\00:27:34.98
Let the person know
how important it is to you
00:27:35.02\00:27:36.48
because now they feel
a sense of accountability
00:27:36.52\00:27:38.89
'cause they've
aligned themselves,
00:27:38.92\00:27:40.26
that accountability
with the offender,
00:27:40.29\00:27:41.62
you see what I'm saying?
00:27:41.66\00:27:42.99
They're trying to
protect the person,
00:27:43.02\00:27:44.36
and now they can
see you as someone
00:27:44.39\00:27:45.73
that they can be uncountable to.
00:27:45.76\00:27:47.10
This topic is too good
for us just to stop right now.
00:27:47.13\00:27:48.60
And I thank you for coming
and sharing your experience.
00:27:48.63\00:27:50.90
We want to follow
this conversation up
00:27:50.93\00:27:52.43
and we have to
do so, on Facebook.
00:27:52.47\00:27:53.90
So for all of our
viewers we want you to come
00:27:53.94\00:27:55.80
and see us on Facebook.
00:27:55.84\00:27:57.17
Facebook, type in Pure Choices,
00:27:57.21\00:27:58.54
and you can
dialogue and talk with us.
00:27:58.57\00:28:00.01
We're sorry we're
running out of time.
00:28:00.04\00:28:01.48
Come back and see us
next week, we will just be...
00:28:01.51\00:28:02.84
And don't forget that
00:28:02.88\00:28:04.41
there is information on the end
that we're going to give them.
00:28:04.45\00:28:06.18
Yeah, we'll give you
some information at the end
00:28:06.21\00:28:07.82
as well, that should be
coming up just about now.
00:28:07.85\00:28:09.48
So come back
and see if next week
00:28:09.52\00:28:11.05
we're going to have another hot
00:28:11.09\00:28:12.42
and serious topic to discuss.
00:28:12.45\00:28:13.79
See you then.
00:28:13.82\00:28:15.92
They are probably
doing the takeaways now.
00:28:15.96\00:28:17.53
Yeah. Take away shot.
00:28:17.56\00:28:18.96
We just ran out of time.
00:28:18.99\00:28:20.33