Welcome to Pure Choices.
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I'm so glad that you
decided to join us again
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for another
exciting and dynamic episode.
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Up unto this point,
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we've been dealing
with some very tough topics.
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And we believe that
God has given us grace
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to really deal with them
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in a way they will edify people.
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And so we're
going to do same today.
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We have an exciting
discussion ahead of us.
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But before we get to that,
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I want to take a moment
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just to
introduce our panel again.
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We have Pastor Alfonzo Greene
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who's here with us
from the first church
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in Huntsville, Alabama.
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We have Pastor Michael Polite
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who joins us all the way
from Nashville, Tennessee
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at the Riverside
Chapel SDA Church.
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We have Pastor Lola Moore,
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who is at the
Oakwood University church
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in Huntsville, Alabama.
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And then we have
Mr. Hollywood himself,
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Pastor Michael B Kelley
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all the way from
Riverside California
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where he's at the
Mt. Rubidioux church.
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And I'm your host
Pastor Seth Yelorda.
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And today, we
want to our topic to be
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is we want to discuss
sex within the church,
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sex and sexuality
within the church.
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We know that
growing up in the church,
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sex is not something
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that is really
talked about a whole lot.
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You may get a
few rap sessions here
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and there about sex,
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but when it comes to
sexual sin within the church,
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it's kind of like, hush,
hush, sweeping under the rug,
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elephant in the room,
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that's kind of avoiding
and not really tackle it.
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And I personally believe that
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the lack of the
church's response
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to a proactive
response in dealing with it
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has allowed much of
it to come more alive
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than what it needs to be.
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And so we really
want to do this thing.
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Now before I
open up for you guys,
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I was doing a
little history and research
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on the history
of sex and sexuality
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just within the
church historically.
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And I came upon
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some very
interesting information
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that I just want to
share with you if I may.
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And it stems all the
way back to the Middle Ages,
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where in the Middle Ages,
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what the church was doing then
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was the church was
forbidding sex 40 days
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before Christmas and 40 days
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before and 8 days after Easter.
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So you can have sex
before 40 days for Christmas.
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Help us, Lord.
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And when it came to Easter,
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you can have sex
four days before Easter
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or eight days after Easter.
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So we're up to 88 days, right?
So you got some days, right.
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And then you couldn't have
sex eight days after Pentecost.
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All right, y'all keeping tally?
Eight days after Pentecost.
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You could not have sex on
the eves of any feast days.
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Feasts of the Trumpet,
Feasts of the Tabernacle,
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you have Enoch's feast,
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you can have sex on
the eves of those feasts.
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You couldn't have sex on Sundays
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and on the Resurrection.
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You couldn't have
sex... Every Sunday?
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Any Sunday. Wow.
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And on the Resurrection.
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Could not have sex on Wednesdays
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to call to mind
the beginning of Lent.
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Could not have sex on Fridays
in memory of crucifixion.
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Could not have
sex during pregnancy.
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Could not have sex
thirty days after birth.
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And if it was a female
child 40 days after birth.
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Could not have sex
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if your spouse was
on her menstrual cycle.
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And you could not
have sex five days
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before communion
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which when you
add up all those days
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it comes up to 252 days
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that you could not have sex.
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Out of 365? Yes.
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But that's not
including the feast days.
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And some suggest that
they were about 30 feast days.
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So you've got
252 plus 30 is what?
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Two hundred eighty
two. Yeah, a whole lot.
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Yeah, right. Minus 365.
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Too many days. Minus 365.
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So there's only
like what 83 days
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that they allowed
you to actually have sex.
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That's assuming now
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that your wife
was in on her cycle
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at that time or that
she was not pregnant.
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And so when you look at this,
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I mean, history reveals
that their basic ideas of sex
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was kind of passed down
from one generation to the next
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where it was kind
of rooted in Origen
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and Clement of Alexandria
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where they have these
thoughts and these theories
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that sex is dirty,
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sex was a part
of the original sin.
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And so it was not
something that was advocated,
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it was not
something that was embraced
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or encouraged even
amongst married couples.
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It's almost like history shows
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that the church has
taught us to deny sex.
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And then the other in,
the world has taught us
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that sex should be distorted
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or that the world
has distorted sex.
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So somewhere between
the church denying it
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and the world distorting it,
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we know that God's
ideal is somewhere in there.
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But today, we
really want to deal with,
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you know, the
church's response to sexual sin
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and sexuality in the church,
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and where do we go from
here, how can we make it up,
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you know, how could we deal
with this thing in the church.
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Sadly, I think our
church has done a bad job
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of making things that
trip us up often taboo.
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So if dance for example trips up
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a lot of people,
then it's taboo, no dance.
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And I think sexuality
has been taken the same way.
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Since it trips
up so many people,
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now there is this clarion
call on a trumpet heralding
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"No sex, no sex."
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Hoping that if we
stay away from the thing,
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then our sinful
nature won't come out,
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and I don't think
that's what happened.
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Yeah, you know
Christ says something about
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how we can substitute some times
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the teachings of men
for the teachings of God.
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And just a cursory view
of scripture will show us
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that just in the
first two chapters
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of scripture in Genesis,
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sex is there before the
tree, before sin comes in.
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God says the two
will become one flesh.
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So it's a part of
God's original plan
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for His people to
be sexually engaged
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with the partner
that He provides for them.
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But what we have done
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or what we have
allowed the enemy to do
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is to spin sex in
a certain kind of way
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that only those
who are weak-willed,
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only those who
are connected with,
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you know, the
vicissitudes of life
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or whatever are
ones who are engaging.
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And that's so
contrary to what God has...
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Especially if you look
at the Song of Solomon,
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you know, you see this high
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and exalted
picture of sex, you know.
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Very detailed. You
know, very detailed.
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It's interesting because,
you know, I've gone around,
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as I know some of you as well
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and I spoken in
various locations.
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And I've been very open
and honest and transparent
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about my own sexual past,
and the mistakes I've made,
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and how God has
given me victory.
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And you won't believe
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how many people come up
to me afterwards and say,
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"Hey, man, just
thank you so much
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for just being
open and transparent."
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And through my transparency,
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it's almost like I'm
bringing them deliverance.
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And they're saying,
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"Man, okay, if he has
some struggles with it,
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I mean, if God was
able to give him victory,
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then what does
that say about me,
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that I too can
experience victory."
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And I think that kind of
speaks of the larger issue
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with Christianity in general.
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And that is that
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because there's a
focus on how the external
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and how people
perceives other people,
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it creates an environment
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where when I have struggles
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or when I'm dealing
with certain issues,
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I don't feel open
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with just being
transparent in sharing
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because I'm trying to
keep up a certain image
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or trying to project...
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Kind of facade. Right.
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Not understanding
that all of us are sinners
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and come short
of the glory of God,
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and all of us are striving
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to become all that
God would have us to be.
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So we have an environment
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where it's
about how do I appear,
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it creates a situation
where you can't be authentic.
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And I think in
order to be able to deal
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with the sexual
deviances and issues
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and people feeling
comfortable to come out,
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what the church as a
whole needs to understand
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and present is
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and what we're
trying to do here is
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what God ideal is for?
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And that it is literally
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one of the most beautiful things
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that God has
ever given to mankind.
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And when you feel
comfortable saying,
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"Hey, this is not
like this weird thing
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that the world created,"
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that's the thing that
gets me sometimes about
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we did not make up sex, God did.
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It's completely a God thing.
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And if it's a God thing,
it must be a spiritual thing.
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So why would we be
afraid to address something
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that's as spiritual as...
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You know, even though we know
that there are still couples
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who anytime they engage
in sex with their spouse,
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you know, they feel
like the God's not there,
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He is separated.
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I've even heard so far
where a couple picture of Jesus
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on their mantle but
whenever they have sex,
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they would turn the picture away
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that they don't want
like Jesus looking at them
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when they're having sex.
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Well, you know, this
is a God created sex.
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The angels are there.
Yeah. The angels are there.
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And, you know, in fact,
Jewish thought go so far to say
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that when a husband
and wife come together
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and experience selfless sex
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which means
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that I'm totally
focusing on my spouse
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and she's
totally focusing on me,
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when the husband and wife
coming together and experience
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the God's ideal for them
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that actually that's
a kind of glory of God
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rest in between them
while they're having sex.
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Wow.
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It's a kind of glory
being that same glory
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that was in the most holy place,
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you know, the same glory
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that consumed the
burning tree that...
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the burning bush
that did not burn,
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you know, that same
glory rest upon a couple...
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And that being said,
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there are still going to be some
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who watch this and say,
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"We should not
have sex on Sabbath."
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Well, why not?
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If the Creator of
the Sabbath made it holy,
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and then he made sex holy,
they seem to go together to me.
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I mean, we can go so far
as to say the Adam and Eve
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were created on the sixth
day, probably late in the day.
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They're getting
to know each other
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after the sun is setting.
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You know what I'm saying
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they're
consecrating their marriage,
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you know, holy time on
the first Sabbath, you know.
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Yes. Hallelujah.
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But that's what I
absolute received all of that.
00:10:00.80\00:10:04.63
You know, I think the thing is
00:10:04.67\00:10:06.23
we just what we're saying now
00:10:06.27\00:10:07.70
like what you just said about
that is it's kind of glory.
00:10:07.74\00:10:10.24
You know, I'm 31 years old.
00:10:10.27\00:10:13.07
And, you know, that's first
some of heard you know that.
00:10:13.11\00:10:17.48
And but I have
heard everything else.
00:10:17.51\00:10:19.65
And so that's why this program
00:10:19.68\00:10:22.32
and it needs to be translated
in another youth groups.
00:10:22.35\00:10:24.89
It needs to be said
from the pulpit now,
00:10:24.92\00:10:26.76
any time I talk about sex
00:10:26.79\00:10:28.12
I do give a
disclaimer to my church,
00:10:28.16\00:10:29.66
"Hey, listen
00:10:29.69\00:10:31.03
this is what we're going
to be talking about next week.
00:10:31.06\00:10:32.73
Make sure, you know,
your young ones are there."
00:10:32.76\00:10:34.53
But it's got to be said
00:10:34.56\00:10:36.30
because the world
gives us their version.
00:10:36.33\00:10:38.17
Here's the thing
00:10:38.20\00:10:39.53
that I think is
made us really silly
00:10:39.57\00:10:41.20
I hate to say
sometimes as a church,
00:10:41.24\00:10:43.61
we act like we
don't talk about it,
00:10:43.64\00:10:45.44
they're not going to hear it.
00:10:45.47\00:10:47.01
They're
absolutely going to hear it.
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They hear it on the TV,
they hear at school here,
00:10:48.48\00:10:50.95
they hear it from their friends.
00:10:50.98\00:10:52.31
So my thing is let's give
them at least another version
00:10:52.35\00:10:56.48
which obviously we
believe is the correct one.
00:10:56.52\00:10:59.22
Let's give you
something to choose from.
00:10:59.25\00:11:00.59
"Okay, you heard
this, you heard this.
00:11:00.62\00:11:01.99
But you don't hear
it from the church.
00:11:02.02\00:11:03.36
So now you don't have
anything to filter through it."
00:11:03.39\00:11:05.26
And more than what
you listen from church
00:11:05.29\00:11:06.63
rather just don't do it.
00:11:06.66\00:11:08.10
It has to be
more, just don't do it.
00:11:08.13\00:11:09.46
You know, that's what I
00:11:09.50\00:11:10.83
because I spoke it up
at a place here recently.
00:11:10.87\00:11:13.44
And someone came
up to me they said,
00:11:13.47\00:11:15.27
"Pastor, why don't we
hear this on Saturday mornings
00:11:15.30\00:11:18.77
from the pulpit?
00:11:18.81\00:11:20.14
Why aren't our
churches talking about this?
00:11:20.18\00:11:21.51
Why aren't we dealing with this?
00:11:21.54\00:11:22.88
Why aren't the youth
groups that are centered around
00:11:22.91\00:11:24.25
giving us a
true biblical picture
00:11:24.28\00:11:27.12
of what sex is to
be in God's ideal."
00:11:27.15\00:11:29.98
This year, I have my experience,
00:11:30.02\00:11:32.69
my first
experience preaching sex
00:11:32.72\00:11:34.99
from the pulpit
on Saturday morning,
00:11:35.02\00:11:37.63
we dealt with it
through the life of Samson.
00:11:37.66\00:11:41.03
And seeing how Samson's life
00:11:41.06\00:11:44.47
was really deeply rooted
in this issue of sexuality.
00:11:44.50\00:11:48.90
Yeah. Big time.
00:11:48.94\00:11:50.27
And after the service,
00:11:50.31\00:11:52.81
there is this
82-year-old woman in my church.
00:11:52.84\00:11:55.51
And she just
comes strolling to us,
00:11:55.54\00:11:57.81
you know, she got her walker,
00:11:57.85\00:11:59.25
and she motions me to come down.
00:11:59.28\00:12:00.62
So I'm thinking
00:12:00.65\00:12:01.98
I'm about to get
rebuked by this sister
00:12:02.02\00:12:03.99
who doesn't feel this belongs
in the church at this time.
00:12:04.02\00:12:06.86
I lean down, and she says,
00:12:06.89\00:12:08.66
"Where were you 65 years ago?"
00:12:08.69\00:12:14.10
And I was just like, "Wow."
00:12:14.13\00:12:15.86
She went on to say
she had never in her life
00:12:15.90\00:12:20.54
ever heard a preacher give a
treatment to what God's ideal
00:12:20.57\00:12:24.37
is for sexuality
on Sabbath morning.
00:12:24.41\00:12:27.91
And it was just
amazing. What are we afraid of?
00:12:27.94\00:12:29.58
Well, I mean in I
think it's the church.
00:12:29.61\00:12:31.31
I mean, I think that
culture is beginning to change.
00:12:31.35\00:12:33.78
I think that there was a culture
00:12:33.82\00:12:35.15
where there
were just some things
00:12:35.18\00:12:36.52
that were not
acceptable kind of rooting
00:12:36.55\00:12:37.89
and what you talked
about at the beginning
00:12:37.92\00:12:39.52
as far as the
negative view of sex
00:12:39.55\00:12:41.42
that it's not
something that's holy,
00:12:41.46\00:12:43.22
that's undefiled,
00:12:43.26\00:12:44.59
that is a blessing
within the context of marriage.
00:12:44.63\00:12:46.70
But I think what
you're seeing now
00:12:46.73\00:12:48.13
because what we're
seeing in society is a shift.
00:12:48.16\00:12:51.03
And, you know, people
of all different faiths
00:12:51.07\00:12:54.40
are beginning to take this up
00:12:54.44\00:12:55.97
and beginning to
kind of talk about
00:12:56.00\00:12:57.34
what God's ideal is
as relates to sexuality.
00:12:57.37\00:13:00.54
So I think
you're seeing a shift,
00:13:00.58\00:13:02.24
it's not, you know, overwhelming
00:13:02.28\00:13:03.71
but you have seen
00:13:03.75\00:13:05.08
more and more
sermons like Pastor Polite
00:13:05.11\00:13:07.75
that are just
talking about sexuality.
00:13:07.78\00:13:09.12
But you know with that,
00:13:09.15\00:13:10.49
we're feeding into
something and let me say
00:13:10.52\00:13:12.02
that's how slick the devil is.
00:13:12.05\00:13:13.86
You know, from
this perspective, see,
00:13:13.89\00:13:15.96
if we don't talk about it,
00:13:15.99\00:13:17.33
then if I'm struggling with it
00:13:17.36\00:13:18.76
I won't go to the
church first to try,
00:13:18.79\00:13:21.73
you know, and get
whatever type of help
00:13:21.76\00:13:24.47
or understanding I can get.
00:13:24.50\00:13:25.83
And we've created these monsters
00:13:25.87\00:13:27.80
where we said no sex,
00:13:27.84\00:13:29.17
no sex, no sex,
the more I hear that,
00:13:29.20\00:13:31.04
well, all of a
sudden when I get married,
00:13:31.07\00:13:32.51
am I going to think
that sex is this great,
00:13:32.54\00:13:34.11
wonderful thing
00:13:34.14\00:13:35.48
'cause I've never even
heard about it in that context.
00:13:35.51\00:13:37.95
And so we just have to be
00:13:37.98\00:13:39.45
I think bold and there might be
00:13:39.48\00:13:40.82
some hits we might take
or sharing it people say,
00:13:40.85\00:13:43.39
"Oh, that's just inappropriate."
00:13:43.42\00:13:44.75
But at the end of the day
00:13:44.79\00:13:46.12
I do believe one of
the number one killers
00:13:46.15\00:13:47.96
for young people in
our generation is sex.
00:13:47.99\00:13:50.93
It's knocking us
out and is doing it.
00:13:50.96\00:13:52.66
And the Bible says,
00:13:52.69\00:13:54.03
"My people perish
for a lack of knowledge."
00:13:54.06\00:13:56.33
Yeah.
00:13:56.36\00:13:57.87
I'm thinking that is
general lack of knowledge.
00:13:57.90\00:14:01.37
People who are generally unaware
00:14:01.40\00:14:05.37
that sex is something
that God has ordained,
00:14:05.41\00:14:08.68
there's an Old Testament scholar
00:14:08.71\00:14:10.58
who I studied under at
the Seventh-day Adventist
00:14:10.61\00:14:12.85
Theological Seminary,
00:14:12.88\00:14:14.22
Richard Davidson maybe
00:14:14.25\00:14:15.58
or some of you studied with him.
00:14:15.62\00:14:17.25
And he just wrote a
book not long ago called
00:14:17.29\00:14:20.16
The Flame of Yahweh.
00:14:20.19\00:14:21.79
That thing is
about 10 pounds heavy,
00:14:21.82\00:14:23.76
you know, with references
00:14:23.79\00:14:26.46
about sexuality
in the Old Testament.
00:14:26.49\00:14:29.63
So this is the
God that people are,
00:14:29.66\00:14:31.37
you know, are
afraid of, they're not sure
00:14:31.40\00:14:33.03
if this is the same God
as the New Testament God.
00:14:33.07\00:14:35.80
But there are
thousands of references
00:14:35.84\00:14:39.17
to the holiness and
the sacredness of sexuality
00:14:39.21\00:14:42.61
in the Old Testament.
00:14:42.64\00:14:44.25
But I honestly would
not have been knowledgeable
00:14:44.28\00:14:47.95
of that unless somebody had gone
00:14:47.98\00:14:49.52
before me and done this study.
00:14:49.55\00:14:51.75
I really believe
00:14:51.79\00:14:53.12
that we who are
theologically trained
00:14:53.15\00:14:54.72
and we who are
purveyors of truth
00:14:54.76\00:14:56.96
have to be more
cognizant of studying
00:14:56.99\00:15:01.00
about what is sexuality about
from the scriptural record.
00:15:01.03\00:15:03.90
You know, excuse me.
00:15:03.93\00:15:05.27
And I sat in one of
Richard Davidson's class
00:15:05.30\00:15:06.63
when I was there.
00:15:06.67\00:15:08.00
He was the first
person I've ever heard,
00:15:08.04\00:15:09.37
he was a strong
advocate of what you just said
00:15:09.40\00:15:11.01
encouraging couples to
have sex on the Sabbath,
00:15:11.04\00:15:13.31
you know, from a
biblical standpoint.
00:15:13.34\00:15:15.54
It's almost like a high Sabbath.
00:15:15.58\00:15:19.58
You know, and of course,
00:15:19.61\00:15:20.95
I mean, it blew my
mind, it blew my mind.
00:15:20.98\00:15:23.08
But like you said,
00:15:23.12\00:15:24.45
it was totally
rooted in the Word of God.
00:15:24.49\00:15:27.16
But going back to
what you're saying
00:15:27.19\00:15:28.52
I'll never forget one
day several years ago,
00:15:28.56\00:15:30.26
I was watching television
00:15:30.29\00:15:31.69
and Kirk Franklin was doing
an interview on television,
00:15:31.73\00:15:34.10
I don't know if
you saw it with Oprah.
00:15:34.13\00:15:35.66
And he was talking to her about
00:15:35.70\00:15:37.03
his personal sexual
struggles in the past.
00:15:37.07\00:15:39.60
And when he was talking,
00:15:39.63\00:15:40.97
he was saying how he
struggled with pornography,
00:15:41.00\00:15:42.34
that type of thing,
and then he got married.
00:15:42.37\00:15:44.31
And in his struggle
00:15:44.34\00:15:45.84
when he was
growing up as a child,
00:15:45.87\00:15:47.21
he says this, he said that,
in my struggle he recognized
00:15:47.24\00:15:50.35
that this was a
right but this is wrong.
00:15:50.38\00:15:52.21
So he went to his
pastor and he said,
00:15:52.25\00:15:54.65
"Listen, I've
been struggling with,
00:15:54.68\00:15:56.18
you know, with pornography,
00:15:56.22\00:15:57.55
I've been
struggling with the sexual sin,
00:15:57.59\00:15:59.12
you know, I'm a young boy.
00:15:59.15\00:16:00.52
You know, can you give me
00:16:00.56\00:16:01.89
some type of something
00:16:01.92\00:16:03.26
to give me some direction here."
00:16:03.29\00:16:04.63
And the pastor
00:16:04.66\00:16:06.09
according to what
Kirk Franklin says
00:16:06.13\00:16:07.46
looked back at him, and said,
00:16:07.50\00:16:08.83
"Oh, don't worry about
it, you'll grow out of it."
00:16:08.86\00:16:11.57
And when he said
00:16:11.60\00:16:12.93
that Kirk Franklin
response in his mind
00:16:12.97\00:16:14.84
was at that moment,
00:16:14.87\00:16:16.20
the pastor just
spoke death into him
00:16:16.24\00:16:18.57
because he left
that office feeling
00:16:18.61\00:16:20.61
as though this isn't that bad
00:16:20.64\00:16:23.18
and eventually one
day, it will go away.
00:16:23.21\00:16:26.68
But what happened
was actually the reverse,
00:16:26.72\00:16:28.98
the longer he kept doing it,
00:16:29.02\00:16:30.35
the stronger it
became to the point
00:16:30.39\00:16:32.62
where now he's married,
00:16:32.65\00:16:33.99
he's in, you
know, with his bride
00:16:34.02\00:16:35.52
and it's still a part
00:16:35.56\00:16:37.13
of his sexual
experience even with his wife.
00:16:37.16\00:16:40.20
You know, which shows you
00:16:40.23\00:16:41.56
the other extreme of
what the church can do
00:16:41.60\00:16:44.17
is like when we
really don't deal with in
00:16:44.20\00:16:46.13
appropriate biblical way,
00:16:46.17\00:16:48.37
we're speaking
death to our kids,
00:16:48.40\00:16:49.94
we're speaking
death to our young people.
00:16:49.97\00:16:51.67
I mean, how many
people say in our churches
00:16:51.71\00:16:53.98
every single
Sabbath that we know
00:16:54.01\00:16:55.41
or that we may not know
00:16:55.44\00:16:56.78
but are
struggling with sexual sin.
00:16:56.81\00:16:58.21
And we don't say
anything about it,
00:16:58.25\00:16:59.91
you know, when we're
preaching over their heads,
00:16:59.95\00:17:01.32
you know, then it's just like
00:17:01.35\00:17:02.68
we're not really
dealing with the heart,
00:17:02.72\00:17:04.05
the root of the issue.
00:17:04.09\00:17:05.42
And I think
00:17:05.45\00:17:07.56
we could really take
some guidance from education
00:17:07.59\00:17:11.83
which seems to suggest
00:17:11.86\00:17:13.73
that children will
confide in to a teacher
00:17:13.76\00:17:18.77
what they're
struggling with if they see
00:17:18.80\00:17:21.27
that teacher as a
positive motivator
00:17:21.30\00:17:24.71
the majority of the time.
00:17:24.74\00:17:26.11
So if I see
this teacher standing
00:17:26.14\00:17:28.04
before me every day,
00:17:28.08\00:17:29.41
and all I'm
getting is negative vibes
00:17:29.44\00:17:30.95
from that when
I'm not doing right.
00:17:30.98\00:17:32.58
What I shouldn't do?
00:17:32.61\00:17:34.58
When the rules
of their classroom
00:17:34.62\00:17:36.58
are opposed like thou
00:17:36.62\00:17:38.05
shall not focus on the negative,
00:17:38.09\00:17:40.52
I as a student
00:17:40.56\00:17:41.89
and way less likely to ever tell
00:17:41.92\00:17:43.69
that teacher anything
about my personal struggle.
00:17:43.73\00:17:46.49
But if that teacher
represents a positive force,
00:17:46.53\00:17:50.17
a positive motivator,
00:17:50.20\00:17:52.33
a place or a being
00:17:52.37\00:17:54.74
that I'm always at in
front of being impacted by.
00:17:54.77\00:17:58.97
It's just awkward,
it's just wonderful to me.
00:17:59.01\00:18:02.24
I am going to
be able to sit down
00:18:02.28\00:18:03.75
with that
teacher one day and say,
00:18:03.78\00:18:05.61
"I got some issues,
and I wanted to know
00:18:05.65\00:18:07.45
if you have any advice for me."
00:18:07.48\00:18:09.08
And sadly, the
church is all too often
00:18:09.12\00:18:12.65
the example of
the negative teacher
00:18:12.69\00:18:14.86
versus the positive.
00:18:14.89\00:18:16.22
And I mean, I was struggling
00:18:16.26\00:18:18.39
when you're talking
about hearing certain messages
00:18:18.43\00:18:21.36
about sexuality from the pulpit
00:18:21.40\00:18:23.37
because there are
certain individuals
00:18:23.40\00:18:25.80
who I don't want talking
about sexuality from the pulpit
00:18:25.83\00:18:29.07
because they are not
a positive motivator.
00:18:29.10\00:18:32.01
And the messages
that they will portray
00:18:32.04\00:18:34.54
will possibly be
these messages of guilt,
00:18:34.58\00:18:37.41
these messages
00:18:37.45\00:18:38.78
that portray sexuality
as dirty or as of the flesh.
00:18:38.81\00:18:42.68
And I'm thinking
00:18:42.72\00:18:44.05
that if a person is
going to speak about sexuality
00:18:44.09\00:18:46.89
from the pulpit
00:18:46.92\00:18:48.26
and be a voice
for what God wants
00:18:48.29\00:18:51.76
that they ought
to do due diligence
00:18:51.79\00:18:53.93
and be deeply grounded
00:18:53.96\00:18:55.83
and what the Bible
actually says about sexuality,
00:18:55.86\00:18:59.13
I don't want everybody
preaching about sexuality.
00:18:59.17\00:19:00.97
You know, one
of their pet peeves
00:19:01.00\00:19:02.70
or riding their hobbyhorse...
00:19:02.74\00:19:04.57
You're trying to shock
me by saying penis or vagina
00:19:04.61\00:19:07.68
and it's like,
"Oh, my goodness."
00:19:07.71\00:19:09.08
Or if they're not yet
mastering their own demons
00:19:09.11\00:19:14.78
with regard to sexuality,
00:19:14.82\00:19:16.42
and some people
have some sexual hang ups
00:19:16.45\00:19:18.25
and aren't ready
to speak about it,
00:19:18.29\00:19:19.62
I don't want
everybody talking about it.
00:19:19.65\00:19:20.99
You know, people have come to me
00:19:21.02\00:19:22.36
after I've shared my
experience with pornography
00:19:22.39\00:19:24.56
and things of that nature
and illicit sex and they say,
00:19:24.59\00:19:26.29
"You know, Pastor,
00:19:26.33\00:19:27.66
it's just a little bit too much,
00:19:27.70\00:19:29.03
you know, you're the pastor,
00:19:29.06\00:19:30.40
we're not supposed to
look at you in this light."
00:19:30.43\00:19:32.07
And like I
shouldn't be sharing it,
00:19:32.10\00:19:34.97
and my response is,
00:19:35.00\00:19:36.34
"Listen, I have
nothing to be ashamed
00:19:36.37\00:19:38.57
of what I've
gotten victory over."
00:19:38.61\00:19:40.31
You know, when
God gives me victory
00:19:40.34\00:19:41.71
over something my responsibility
00:19:41.74\00:19:43.85
is then to turn
00:19:43.88\00:19:45.21
and help somebody
else give victory.
00:19:45.25\00:19:46.58
I didn't want to say
I boast in my weakness.
00:19:46.61\00:19:48.62
What I mean by that is that,
00:19:48.65\00:19:51.92
you know, as God has
given you the victory,
00:19:51.95\00:19:53.96
how would someone
else be able to know
00:19:53.99\00:19:56.26
that God is able to deliver
00:19:56.29\00:19:58.36
if they cannot see
something tangible?
00:19:58.39\00:20:01.00
You know, we talk we could say,
00:20:01.03\00:20:02.36
"Hey, God can
deliver, God can deliver."
00:20:02.40\00:20:04.10
But, man, when I actually see
00:20:04.13\00:20:06.60
that you were struggling
with the very same thing...
00:20:06.63\00:20:08.77
That overcame by the
word of the testimony.
00:20:08.80\00:20:10.94
But there is a
very powerful appeal.
00:20:10.97\00:20:13.17
And the first
person I heard it do it
00:20:13.21\00:20:14.54
was Pastor Ronnie Vanderhorst.
00:20:14.58\00:20:16.71
And one of the things
00:20:16.75\00:20:18.08
he did is before
he made his appeal,
00:20:18.11\00:20:19.45
he said before I do
anything, he's like,
00:20:19.48\00:20:21.18
"I need someone who overcome,
struggled with alcoholism,
00:20:21.22\00:20:24.12
stand up."
00:20:24.15\00:20:25.49
And you've overcome,
so you will stand up.
00:20:25.52\00:20:26.99
He goes through
a list of changes,
00:20:27.02\00:20:29.22
all the different kind of stuff.
00:20:29.26\00:20:30.79
And he turns to, you know,
00:20:30.83\00:20:32.43
'cause this for
you that he says,
00:20:32.46\00:20:33.80
"No, you know,
people you just have proof
00:20:33.83\00:20:35.80
that God can help you overcome."
00:20:35.83\00:20:38.47
You know,
somebody come to Christ
00:20:38.50\00:20:39.83
and it's just amazing
00:20:39.87\00:20:41.20
'cause you have to see
that but what He did also help
00:20:41.24\00:20:44.47
that church in
not just that moment
00:20:44.51\00:20:46.81
but now there was
a safe environment
00:20:46.84\00:20:48.74
that was created that
says, "Wait a second."
00:20:48.78\00:20:51.01
I just say show it to everybody
00:20:51.05\00:20:53.45
"Hey, I've had
something I've dealt with
00:20:53.48\00:20:55.32
and I've been
able to overcome it."
00:20:55.35\00:20:56.69
And that's why I think
00:20:56.72\00:20:58.05
we need to
strive to do with sex,
00:20:58.09\00:20:59.52
and by creating
that safe environment
00:20:59.55\00:21:01.46
is not being
afraid to have a group.
00:21:01.49\00:21:04.73
You're
struggling with pornography,
00:21:04.76\00:21:06.09
we've got some
experts and people who know,
00:21:06.13\00:21:08.26
we're going to have a
support group right here
00:21:08.30\00:21:11.13
at the church
00:21:11.17\00:21:12.50
and people who
are studying with it.
00:21:12.53\00:21:13.87
And if you
create the environment
00:21:13.90\00:21:15.34
where whoever you see
come in and out of that room
00:21:15.37\00:21:17.51
you're not like
"Whoa, whoa, watch that."
00:21:17.54\00:21:19.34
But I tell you,
people will come out
00:21:19.37\00:21:20.71
'cause here's the thing
00:21:20.74\00:21:22.08
that I've just
learned in my short time,
00:21:22.11\00:21:23.45
you know, Pastor
Ronnie pastoring,
00:21:23.48\00:21:24.88
you know, for about
almost 10 years now.
00:21:24.91\00:21:27.88
But here's the thing,
00:21:27.92\00:21:29.78
people are hurting in our pews.
00:21:29.82\00:21:33.15
I mean, they are hurting bad.
00:21:33.19\00:21:34.66
And they're
waiting for the church
00:21:34.69\00:21:37.03
to come out and say,
00:21:37.06\00:21:38.39
"We've got the
solution through Christ
00:21:38.43\00:21:41.26
on how to be able
to deal with this."
00:21:41.30\00:21:43.00
They're waiting for
the church to free them.
00:21:43.03\00:21:44.37
Yeah, it is. And
we have to do that.
00:21:44.40\00:21:45.73
We have to be
intentional, that's the thing.
00:21:45.77\00:21:47.50
I think we have to be
intentional about that.
00:21:47.54\00:21:50.67
It's funny because I
heard a statistic recently,
00:21:50.71\00:21:52.81
don't know how
true it is or not,
00:21:52.84\00:21:54.18
but it's said that 95% of
people struggle with lust,
00:21:54.21\00:21:58.25
and the other 5% are lying.
00:21:58.28\00:22:00.15
You know, so this is something
00:22:00.18\00:22:03.35
that everyone
00:22:03.39\00:22:04.75
whether your issue
may not be pornography,
00:22:04.79\00:22:06.92
your issue may not be
watching late night movies
00:22:06.96\00:22:09.16
or sexting or
flirting or that type of thing,
00:22:09.19\00:22:11.09
but the world is bombarding
us with just sexual propaganda,
00:22:11.13\00:22:15.83
bottom line.
00:22:15.86\00:22:17.20
And what we've
done up at this point
00:22:17.23\00:22:18.57
is our response has been
00:22:18.60\00:22:19.93
well since the world
is going to on extreme,
00:22:19.97\00:22:21.60
will go to the other
extreme and just shut down
00:22:21.64\00:22:23.57
and not say
anything about it, you know.
00:22:23.61\00:22:25.24
But we have to be
more proactive than that.
00:22:25.27\00:22:26.78
And it's the trust
factor, that's major there.
00:22:26.81\00:22:31.05
When we think about sexuality
00:22:31.08\00:22:33.01
that is the moment
we are truly on display.
00:22:33.05\00:22:37.62
We talked to couple
and you sorted all about
00:22:37.65\00:22:39.79
how the Bible is
very accurate to say
00:22:39.82\00:22:42.26
and Adam knew his wife Eve.
00:22:42.29\00:22:45.13
There's a knowing
00:22:45.16\00:22:46.49
that takes
place in our sexuality
00:22:46.53\00:22:48.23
that shows the
world who we truly are.
00:22:48.26\00:22:51.00
So if that type of
transparency is required for me
00:22:51.03\00:22:55.04
to just interact sexually,
00:22:55.07\00:22:57.47
then the same type of
trust is needed for me
00:22:57.51\00:23:00.94
to talk about my sexual issues.
00:23:00.98\00:23:03.31
And because our church
sadly is not a safe place
00:23:03.35\00:23:07.05
for hurting people,
00:23:07.08\00:23:08.92
they shy away from divulging
00:23:08.95\00:23:11.69
the most intimate
part of themselves
00:23:11.72\00:23:14.72
and how they're struggling.
00:23:14.76\00:23:16.36
Well, let me just say
this really quick that,
00:23:16.39\00:23:18.09
you know, but I know
00:23:18.13\00:23:20.00
that we're talking
about Christianity,
00:23:20.03\00:23:22.06
that this is
far as being unsafe.
00:23:22.10\00:23:23.53
But there is a move.
00:23:23.57\00:23:25.17
And I believe that, you
know, even in this room...
00:23:25.20\00:23:26.90
We show. We show
00:23:26.94\00:23:28.27
Yeah, there's a
move amongst Christianity
00:23:28.30\00:23:30.67
in general to create environment
00:23:30.71\00:23:33.98
where it is safe for
people to share their struggles
00:23:34.01\00:23:37.45
because we know that,
00:23:37.48\00:23:38.81
you know, since
thrives in secrecy.
00:23:38.85\00:23:41.22
And so, you know, yes,
that has been the pattern,
00:23:41.25\00:23:43.69
that has been the history.
00:23:43.72\00:23:45.05
But I've seen and I
think you often seen
00:23:45.09\00:23:47.16
as well even in our own context
00:23:47.19\00:23:49.66
where there is a
move to create that...
00:23:49.69\00:23:52.33
That's my question,
00:23:52.36\00:23:53.70
what can the church
do to create to do more?
00:23:53.73\00:23:56.36
What can the church do
to create that safe place?
00:23:56.40\00:23:58.57
I think some of the
very intentionally although,
00:23:58.60\00:24:00.07
you know, I've seen...
00:24:00.10\00:24:01.44
I mean, make sure
you watch the video.
00:24:01.47\00:24:02.80
I mean, this is the part of it.
00:24:02.84\00:24:05.07
You know, I think one thing
00:24:05.11\00:24:06.44
I do every
single year in my church
00:24:06.47\00:24:08.44
is we are going to
have at least four,
00:24:08.48\00:24:12.91
whether it's prayer meetings,
00:24:12.95\00:24:14.28
whether it's sermons
that I going to deal with sex.
00:24:14.32\00:24:17.65
And then out of
that we're going to have
00:24:17.69\00:24:19.99
other groups
where we can talk about.
00:24:20.02\00:24:21.42
And there's no question,
00:24:21.46\00:24:22.79
you know, at
Rubidioux, for instance,
00:24:22.82\00:24:26.96
pastors are
going to deal with it
00:24:27.00\00:24:28.36
because I've made a commitment,
00:24:28.40\00:24:31.13
I said there's no way
00:24:31.17\00:24:32.50
that I'm going to
let this get on touch.
00:24:32.53\00:24:34.77
And I think that's a part of it.
00:24:34.80\00:24:36.14
And when you do it from up top,
00:24:36.17\00:24:38.77
it makes it easier
00:24:38.81\00:24:40.14
I think to have
in many other places.
00:24:40.18\00:24:41.51
You give license.
You absolutely do.
00:24:41.54\00:24:43.18
When you are free
and you deal with it,
00:24:43.21\00:24:44.88
it almost gives
people the permission.
00:24:44.91\00:24:46.68
You're giving the
permission to talk about it.
00:24:46.72\00:24:49.32
So what you're
saying is you address it
00:24:49.35\00:24:50.89
from the top down
kind of like the pastor,
00:24:50.92\00:24:53.09
"I'm going to
address this thing."
00:24:53.12\00:24:54.46
But what about individual
00:24:54.49\00:24:55.82
who is not the
pastor but they're saying,
00:24:55.86\00:24:57.19
"Man, I know I've
struggled with that.
00:24:57.23\00:24:58.59
I haven't have
friends in the church
00:24:58.63\00:24:59.96
who struggle with it.
00:25:00.00\00:25:01.33
Our pastor
might not be on board,
00:25:01.36\00:25:02.70
how can we work to
try to create a safe place
00:25:02.73\00:25:04.50
within our church?"
00:25:04.53\00:25:05.87
Yeah, I think it's just
the way you operate though
00:25:05.90\00:25:07.24
amongst other people.
00:25:07.27\00:25:08.60
I think when people
can kind of get the sense
00:25:08.64\00:25:09.97
that you're real
00:25:10.01\00:25:11.34
not that you're
glorifying your struggle,
00:25:11.37\00:25:13.27
not your glorifying your sin,
00:25:13.31\00:25:14.84
but that you're
the type of person
00:25:14.88\00:25:16.21
is very in touch with
00:25:16.24\00:25:17.58
"I'm a sinner and I
am in need of Christ,
00:25:17.61\00:25:19.45
and the grace of God
is what it saved you."
00:25:19.48\00:25:20.82
When you kind of had
that air about you people
00:25:20.85\00:25:23.72
will get the sense
00:25:23.75\00:25:25.09
that it's safe for them
to come and approach you.
00:25:25.12\00:25:27.66
I have had situations where,
00:25:27.69\00:25:29.02
you know, just people will come
and talk to me and they'll say,
00:25:29.06\00:25:31.53
"Man, you know,
I kind of feel like
00:25:31.56\00:25:33.29
you are the type of
person I can share this with."
00:25:33.33\00:25:35.90
And I think what
that really ultimately
00:25:35.93\00:25:38.27
is it just really letting Christ
00:25:38.30\00:25:40.37
just really just shine
00:25:40.40\00:25:42.24
and just kind of
give you that sense,
00:25:42.27\00:25:44.37
you know, this person is
the safe person to talk to.
00:25:44.41\00:25:46.11
So even if it's not
coming from the top,
00:25:46.14\00:25:47.74
you can start to be the
change within your context
00:25:47.78\00:25:50.95
by just the way
that you carry yourself.
00:25:50.98\00:25:52.45
We're saying that the
church has to be a safe place.
00:25:52.48\00:25:55.62
And we're saying a few
things that can take place
00:25:55.65\00:25:57.55
in order for the
church to be safe place.
00:25:57.59\00:25:59.49
What do you think
about the church becoming
00:25:59.52\00:26:00.86
a place of redemption
00:26:00.89\00:26:02.22
when it comes to
sex and sexual sin?
00:26:02.26\00:26:03.69
What does that look like?
00:26:03.73\00:26:05.36
It looks like a hospital
instead of a country club,
00:26:05.39\00:26:09.96
that's what it looks like.
00:26:10.00\00:26:11.33
And that is
uncomfortable because naturally,
00:26:11.37\00:26:15.47
we are not prone to like
to be around sick people.
00:26:15.50\00:26:19.57
And yet we see Christ,
when the leper comes to Him,
00:26:19.61\00:26:23.81
you know, the Greek seems
to give us this impression
00:26:23.85\00:26:26.31
that he's embracing the leper,
00:26:26.35\00:26:28.35
the kind of leprosy
00:26:28.38\00:26:29.72
that you're not
supposed to touch,
00:26:29.75\00:26:31.09
that's supposed to
stand off the road,
00:26:31.12\00:26:32.72
a matter of fact, if
he's anywhere near people,
00:26:32.75\00:26:35.62
Christ is hugging this man.
00:26:35.66\00:26:37.23
It's tough being
around sick people.
00:26:37.26\00:26:39.33
And it's even tougher to admit
00:26:39.36\00:26:41.23
that you're one
of those sick people.
00:26:41.26\00:26:43.23
But, you know, I
think the main thing
00:26:43.26\00:26:45.07
is Ministry of Healing,
00:26:45.10\00:26:46.43
page 143 just one
of my favorite quotes
00:26:46.47\00:26:49.00
where Sister White says,
00:26:49.04\00:26:50.37
"Christ mingled with men as
one who desires there good."
00:26:50.41\00:26:53.58
In the first part
of that, there it says,
00:26:53.61\00:26:55.38
"Met their needs,"
00:26:55.41\00:26:56.75
and if you are in a community
00:26:56.78\00:26:58.55
and your place and you know that
00:26:58.58\00:26:59.91
there are some sexual issues
00:26:59.95\00:27:01.48
going on at the
high school all that,
00:27:01.52\00:27:03.55
set up something in your church,
00:27:03.59\00:27:05.45
even if your church is just use,
00:27:05.49\00:27:06.89
make sure the people
00:27:06.92\00:27:08.26
who are coming in are understand
00:27:08.29\00:27:09.62
the same
principles that you have.
00:27:09.66\00:27:10.99
And say, "Yeah, we got it,
00:27:11.03\00:27:12.76
people who are struggling
with not just pornography
00:27:12.79\00:27:14.76
but sexual promiscuity,
00:27:14.80\00:27:16.83
you can come to our
place in a support group
00:27:16.87\00:27:20.10
and we're going
to give you help."
00:27:20.14\00:27:21.97
Have that right
there at your church.
00:27:22.00\00:27:23.34
"When you come,
you won't be judged,
00:27:23.37\00:27:25.17
you won't be looked
that funny or different,
00:27:25.21\00:27:27.68
but listen, you're one of
us, you're part of the family."
00:27:27.71\00:27:30.31
You know, the reality
is we have to see ourselves
00:27:30.35\00:27:32.75
as Christ sees us and
see each others as Christ.
00:27:32.78\00:27:36.38
And we are all...
00:27:36.42\00:27:37.75
point what my Bible tells me,
00:27:37.79\00:27:39.12
"Sinners, saved by
the same grace of God."
00:27:39.15\00:27:40.72
You know.
00:27:40.76\00:27:42.09
And so that's good
00:27:42.12\00:27:43.46
so the church has
to be a safe place,
00:27:43.49\00:27:44.83
the church has to be
a place of redemption.
00:27:44.86\00:27:46.29
You know, my
prayers at the churches
00:27:46.33\00:27:48.60
will become to this
place more and more so.
00:27:48.63\00:27:50.87
We are getting closer.
Yeah, we're out of time.
00:27:50.90\00:27:52.97
We're going to
continue this next week
00:27:53.00\00:27:54.57
as we continue to discuss.
00:27:54.60\00:27:56.14
But we're just
thankful for you tuning in,
00:27:56.17\00:27:58.51
we pray that you are
edified and uplifted.
00:27:58.54\00:28:01.24
Follow us on Facebook,
type in FacebookPureChoices,
00:28:01.28\00:28:04.98
talk with us, dialogue with us.
00:28:05.01\00:28:06.38
And we hope to
see you next week.
00:28:06.41\00:28:07.75
Be blessed.
Have a wonderful day.
00:28:07.78\00:28:09.48