Welcome to Pure Choices.
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I'm so glad you
decided to join us
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for another episode today
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where we're discussing
some hot, hot, topics.
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I got my people
here with me again
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and we're excited
about today's topic
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where we'll be
diving into understanding
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and discussing, how far is
too far in the dating room.
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You don't want to miss this,
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so please stay
tuned for this thing.
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Let me introduce you
real quick to who we have.
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Again, we have one of my friends
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Pastor Alfonzo Greene,
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who is at the First
Church in Huntsville, Alabama.
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We have Pastor Michael Polite,
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who's at Riverside
SDA Church in Nashville.
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We have my sister who
is here from Huntsville,
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Oakwood University,
church Pastor Lola Moore.
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And we have my
brother, Michael B. Kelley
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who is joining us all
the way from Riverside,
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California at the
Mt. Rubidoux SDA Church.
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And I'm glad that you
all are back with us again.
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We were having
some good conversation
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and I know today we
gonna get right back into it.
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So we're not
gonna waste any time.
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We want to take this
thing straight from the head,
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we want to start
straight from the head,
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just be honest with people.
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We're dealing
with the topic today
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how far is too far?
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And we thought
it was a good idea
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rather than us
talking about it here.
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We wanna get some feedback
from the people on campuses
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so we're actually here alive
at Oakwood University campus.
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And we will take
it to the streets,
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to the streets,
to the cafeteria.
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And then we
gonna let them tell us
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how far they think is too far.
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Your box take it
away, how far is too far?
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Hey, what's up you guys?
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We're here at Oakwood University
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and I'm
reporting for Pure Choices.
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Now the question for the
day is how far is too far?
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And no, I do not mean location.
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I'm talking about
physically, let's find out.
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When you start compromising.
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When she says, no means no.
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How far is too far?
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I think it all
depends on the relationship.
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It depends on boundaries.
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Hey, how far is too far?
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It is as far as
the girl makes it.
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If she lets me get somewhere,
that's how far it gets.
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How far is too far
depends on the person.
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I can only say your
maturity level, I guess,
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and how your
relationship is with the person.
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So people can
handle tongue kissing.
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Sometimes people are like,
"I can handle just holding you,
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or just kissing you."
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But to another person
that's just a beginning
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of just the control
and utter breakdown.
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How far is too
far in a relationship
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as in physical?
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What's the question?
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How far is too
far in a relationship
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as in physical?
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I think you reach the
point of going too far
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when you feel as though
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you can't bring
your relationship to God.
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I think if we're
honest with ourselves,
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we'll know that
kissing and groping is wrong.
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For me I think that, you know,
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it's okay to
show affection as in,
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you know, maybe
holding hands or,
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you know, hugging.
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But I do believe that
physical contact beyond that,
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it's promoting sexual activity.
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I don't think there's
anything wrong with kissing
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but other things.
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You say you're not going
to have sex in a relationship
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and you
consider sex penetration,
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you cannot set your
goal, your boundary there.
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It has to be set
further back because that means
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everything
underneath that is open.
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Well, let me tell
you how far is too far.
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Listen, now if
you're sitting in the car
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and you're overlooking a CD
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and the lady tries
to touch all over you,
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and the man tries to go,
you know, under the skirt,
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tries to go there,
that's a little bit too far.
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You only ask for a movie
and he's trying to get a movie
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and a popcorn, the only thing
you've paid for was the movie.
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Can't get enough for
free, I think that's too far.
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From a Christian
perspective, anything that lead,
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that's gonna lead to sex
is too far but, you know,
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anything you can do.
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I mean, this, you
know, can lead to something.
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So I mean, the
question, you know,
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kind of can be answered
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unless you know your own limits.
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Well, in the physical aspect,
in a romantic relationship,
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if you ain't married
you shouldn't be groping,
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dry humping, all
that kind of stuff.
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No sex,
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no so called oral stuff, yeah.
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That's too far.
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Y'all, there it is.
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We got a mixed bag out
there, what do you all think?
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How far is too far?
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We got a mixed bag in here.
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All right. Let's talk about it.
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When it comes to
the dating element
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you know, 14, 15, 16,
21, 22, let's just say
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anywhere from not
married on now, you know,
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how far is too far?
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I think what we
have to do before
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we really get to
how far is too far
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is I think we
really have to figure out
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what's the purpose of dating
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like what is the
end goal in dating?
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I don't think...
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I think we have to figure out,
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"Okay, why am I
doing what I'm doing."
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Then I can
understand if how far is too far
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will effect that end
goal that I'm supposed to get,
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you know where I'm getting.
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Does that make sense?
Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Do you think people
will think about that though?
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I mean, honestly
when someone goes
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into the dating
realm, they actually think,
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"What's the purpose of this?"
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You know, I'm
saying like honestly,
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when I'm
thinking, when I was 16, 17,
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I'm not thinking
I'm dating this person
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for any particular reasons.
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Ya, she's cute, I
think I'm cute, you know,
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we'll be cute together.
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I like her, let us go.
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But I think if
you define the purpose
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and what it is
then I might find that
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what I'm doing at 16 and 17
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actually isn't
classified as dating.
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Okay. Okay, I'm with
you. You know what I'm saying.
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I might say if the
purpose lets say of dating
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is to prepare me for marriage
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and then I say at 14 I'm dating,
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I'm saying so at
14 I'm preparing,
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you know what I'm saying
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intentionally in
that way for marriage.
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So I think we got
to figure out like,
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what is it that dating does
do, what it's supposed to do.
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And then when I
figured that out then,
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okay, at this
particular stage in my life
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if that's what dating is,
can that apply to where I am?
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So let me ask this question.
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Do you really, do you
think along those lines,
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do you think that dating...
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Two things,
there's two categories,
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there's those people
who believe that dating is,
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should be exclusively done
to prepare you for marriage,
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otherwise they would call
it, what's the word, courtship.
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Courtship. Yeah, courtship.
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But then there is
another camp which says that,
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"Yo, you should date,
just date around," you know,
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get to know people,
go out, date, you know,
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be exclusive, you know,
figure out who they are,
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figure out who you are
even if you have no intentions
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on getting married right away
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or even marrying that
person you should still date."
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What category do
you all fall in here,
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what do you all think?
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Well, I mean, for
me I kind of think that
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when we're dealing with
high school students like,
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you know, dealing from 14 to 18,
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I just don't think
that's really the season
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for exclusive
dating as far as the way
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that we classify dating.
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I think this isn't the
time for you to make friends,
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get an opportunity get
to know different people
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because you're really
at that stage in life,
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that season of life,
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you really just kind
of learning who you are,
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you're kind of trying
to find out who you are
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and you just
need to just try to...
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That just means, there
needs to be no pressure really,
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you know, where you
just got to kind of try to do
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something with somebody else.
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This is my opinion, I
think that at that time
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you just need to
try and make friends.
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So, from 14 to let's
say 18 high school...
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Let's just go
even a further back
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from high school,
let's say sixth grade
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'cause you know,
people starting young now.
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So let's say from sixth grade
to senior year in high school,
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during that period
you are of the mind
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that you just need
to be just friends,
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just go out, hang out...
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Hang out with as many cats,
just make your friends, yeah.
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No, nothing exclusive,
this is not my girl, you know,
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this is not my boy, you know,
we're just, we're just cool.
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I gotta admit I'm not there.
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I'm not there from
the standpoint of...
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When romance becomes important,
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it's during that exact age group
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and I'm feeling like
sixth grade to twelfth grade
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this romance thing is
becoming important to me,
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so I'm going to have a
romantic interest for sure.
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I will not be able to
keep everything platonic
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to where I see this girl
just like I see this girl.
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No, I'm gonna have
a crush on somebody,
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so how can I
experience my crush,
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my romantic interest
and yet not go overboard
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to where I've gone too far.
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Well, I mean, why do
you experience that though
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because I think
part of the media
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and part of like, we
talked in earlier episode,
00:08:57.70\00:08:59.83
part of I think the
messages that are put out there,
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is this is what you
should be doing at this age.
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Not necessarily.
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Is it really only the
media or we already established,
00:09:06.68\00:09:10.08
we're sexual beings.
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We established,
we're romantic beings,
00:09:11.48\00:09:13.65
you know, set up for that
00:09:13.68\00:09:15.18
because animals
don't need to set a tone,
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they just, you know,
go and do their thing.
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But us, we have and
created for romantic feelings...
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Yeah, but, I think...
You know, those things so...
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It's called
puberty. Yeah, you're right.
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When puberty hits you...
In fact it's not just of...
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The trigger is on.
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It's not just the media
I don't think that makes us
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have the crushes, you know.
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Okay. Right.
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And my question would be,
do I really at 12 or at 13
00:09:33.67\00:09:37.54
have the emotional
maturity to be able to do
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what I'm supposed to
do with the feelings,
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with all of the hormones
that are coming up when I'm 12.
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Do I really have
the infrastructure
00:09:45.15\00:09:47.12
to be able to say no
when I'm supposed to say no
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and say yes when I'm supposed
to say yes at that time?
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And I really don't think so.
00:09:53.32\00:09:54.66
I really don't think that
we're emotionally prepared
00:09:54.69\00:09:57.53
to carry on a
responsible relationship
00:09:57.56\00:10:00.23
at that time.
00:10:00.26\00:10:01.60
Okay, Mom, so tell
me then, Mom, tell me.
00:10:01.63\00:10:04.63
I'm in puberty... Yes.
00:10:04.67\00:10:06.57
I'm starting to
feel this connection,
00:10:06.60\00:10:08.90
girls no longer have
cooties all that good stuff,
00:10:08.94\00:10:11.77
how do I express
that natural biology in me
00:10:11.81\00:10:15.88
that start into
trigger and whelm up.
00:10:15.91\00:10:18.98
How do I express that?
00:10:19.01\00:10:20.35
And I think that
we as a community
00:10:20.38\00:10:22.98
have to be better
about creating atmospheres
00:10:23.02\00:10:27.42
for young people to experience
one another but in safe ways.
00:10:27.46\00:10:32.09
And I'm thinking
that there's some...
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An evangelical groups
that are very intentional
00:10:34.36\00:10:37.80
about walking their
children through these times
00:10:37.83\00:10:41.34
and giving them the tools
00:10:41.37\00:10:43.47
to be able to be
responsible at those times.
00:10:43.51\00:10:46.17
Keeping the goal before them
because I don't really think
00:10:46.21\00:10:49.21
that we are able
to establish our goal
00:10:49.24\00:10:51.55
for ourselves is
something that someone
00:10:51.58\00:10:53.88
who is responsible over
us needs to put out there,
00:10:53.92\00:10:58.02
"You are going to
get married one day."
00:10:58.05\00:11:00.26
And the question for me would be
00:11:00.29\00:11:01.92
in this whole conversation,
00:11:01.96\00:11:03.93
will my husband
feel cool with me
00:11:03.96\00:11:06.19
doing with this other guy,
00:11:06.23\00:11:07.93
you know, if my
husband were standing
00:11:07.96\00:11:09.76
in the room as I have...
00:11:09.80\00:11:11.13
Future husband.
00:11:11.17\00:11:12.50
Well, I'm saying,
you know, my future...
00:11:12.53\00:11:13.87
Because the goal I
believe is marriage.
00:11:13.90\00:11:16.10
If my husband were in the
room with me with us right now,
00:11:16.14\00:11:18.97
we're 12, we're 13,
00:11:19.01\00:11:20.44
will my husband
feel cool with...
00:11:20.48\00:11:21.91
Or 14, 15, 16.
Yeah, and all the way up.
00:11:21.94\00:11:24.05
But yeah, now I definitely agree
00:11:24.08\00:11:25.71
with that principle, however
I'm gonna be real with that.
00:11:25.75\00:11:29.15
At 14, 16... Not
thinking about husband.
00:11:29.18\00:11:31.35
Well, even if I
am, I might even say,
00:11:31.39\00:11:33.66
"Oh, he'd be cool with that,"
because you know what I mean
00:11:33.69\00:11:35.82
because I don't
even understand...
00:11:35.86\00:11:37.19
He's probably doing
something to himself.
00:11:37.23\00:11:38.56
He probably, yeah,
he might, you know,
00:11:38.59\00:11:39.93
they're appropriating it. Right.
00:11:39.96\00:11:41.30
But I think that's a
great, that's a great principle.
00:11:41.33\00:11:42.66
I think the thing that
we have to be able to say
00:11:42.70\00:11:44.03
because I love the
idea of, the problem,
00:11:44.07\00:11:46.17
I think the biggest
problem when we get into
00:11:46.20\00:11:48.60
the how far is too
far is exclusivity.
00:11:48.64\00:11:50.84
They're completely
locked into one person.
00:11:50.87\00:11:53.64
I think what Mike
is trying to say is,
00:11:53.68\00:11:56.08
okay, even though while
we're saying be friends,
00:11:56.11\00:11:59.68
what I have to deal with is,
yeah, I'm cool being friends,
00:11:59.71\00:12:02.42
not locked up with one person,
00:12:02.45\00:12:03.85
but there is something
special about this one...
00:12:03.89\00:12:05.62
This one, right.
00:12:05.65\00:12:06.99
I've got just, I like
her or I like him and so,
00:12:07.02\00:12:10.43
can I still maintain
the idea of being friends
00:12:10.46\00:12:14.96
not be exclusive just because
I have a romantic feeling,
00:12:15.00\00:12:17.60
and I think that's
would be a problem.
00:12:17.63\00:12:18.97
I want to be friends
but there's something,
00:12:19.00\00:12:20.90
something there.
00:12:20.94\00:12:22.27
You know, I would
take what Lola is saying
00:12:22.30\00:12:23.64
even stuff further,
when you're 14, 15, 16
00:12:23.67\00:12:25.61
like you said
puberty is like in full bloom
00:12:25.64\00:12:28.01
and you're starting
to feel these feelings,
00:12:28.04\00:12:29.78
I would say is now the time,
is now the appropriate time
00:12:29.81\00:12:33.42
with appropriate
season like Alfonzo said,
00:12:33.45\00:12:35.52
to be expressing
romantic feelings
00:12:35.55\00:12:36.95
to someone else.
00:12:36.99\00:12:38.32
You know, I'll never
forget when I was like, 16, 17
00:12:38.35\00:12:39.95
when I went all
out for my girlfriend,
00:12:39.99\00:12:41.56
brought her like a
watch, some clothes,
00:12:41.59\00:12:43.96
I even went and bought her
a real live kitten, you know,
00:12:43.99\00:12:46.06
she wanted a cat.
00:12:46.09\00:12:47.43
A real one or a
stuffed one? No, a real kitten.
00:12:47.46\00:12:49.53
There you were
whipped like that man.
00:12:49.56\00:12:50.90
No, I brought her kitten.
00:12:50.93\00:12:52.27
Yo, I was in love
man, 16, 17 years old.
00:12:52.30\00:12:53.87
Nice man.
00:12:53.90\00:12:55.24
But you know, I got to the point
00:12:55.27\00:12:56.60
where my dad
stepped in, my dad was like,
00:12:56.64\00:12:57.97
"Yo, Seth, you're going too far,
00:12:58.01\00:12:59.34
like, it's not,
you're not there yet..."
00:12:59.37\00:13:00.71
Thank you. Thank you,
dad. "You're not there."
00:13:00.74\00:13:02.08
Yeah, thank you dad.
"You're not there yet.
00:13:02.11\00:13:03.45
You shouldn't be like
going all out at this age.
00:13:03.48\00:13:05.55
What you're supposed
to be doing right now
00:13:05.58\00:13:06.92
is just really
developing a strong friendship.
00:13:06.95\00:13:09.02
It doesn't need
to be this exclusive.
00:13:09.05\00:13:10.59
This is my girl,
that's my boy but just,
00:13:10.62\00:13:12.99
you know, we're just
beginning to know people."
00:13:13.02\00:13:14.46
And I really believe that
during that high school period,
00:13:14.49\00:13:17.53
like you should not
be concerned about this,
00:13:17.56\00:13:18.96
I need a boyfriend
or I need a girlfriend.
00:13:18.99\00:13:20.50
No, you really need to
be discovering who you are,
00:13:20.53\00:13:22.50
you know, and you do that
00:13:22.53\00:13:23.87
through having a lot
of different friends.
00:13:23.90\00:13:25.73
Yeah, and I think something
that you said, you know,
00:13:25.77\00:13:30.07
obviously, probably you've said,
00:13:30.11\00:13:31.54
just that idea about how
00:13:31.57\00:13:33.21
when you begin to get exclusive,
00:13:33.24\00:13:35.04
it kind of messes the framework
00:13:35.08\00:13:36.88
of what's
supposed to be happening
00:13:36.91\00:13:38.91
because if I'm
only locked into you,
00:13:38.95\00:13:40.95
then I don't get to experience
00:13:40.98\00:13:42.32
what other people
might bring out of me
00:13:42.35\00:13:43.85
as I'm figuring out
who I am and socializing.
00:13:43.89\00:13:46.86
I get locked up
with that one person
00:13:46.89\00:13:48.52
and the other thing I
think is really important,
00:13:48.56\00:13:50.96
being locked in when
that breakup happens,
00:13:50.99\00:13:53.80
it damage, it really
does legitimate damage.
00:13:53.83\00:13:57.93
Realistically the
pressure can sink in,
00:13:57.97\00:13:59.50
all these other consequences,
00:13:59.53\00:14:00.87
you don't do well at
school and all of that.
00:14:00.90\00:14:02.24
Let me say this, so I
just firmly believe that
00:14:02.27\00:14:03.77
from that high school period
from, you know, middle school,
00:14:03.81\00:14:06.47
high school, that
it's all about development.
00:14:06.51\00:14:09.14
You're in the
development period.
00:14:09.18\00:14:10.55
You're trying to discover
who am I, how do I flow,
00:14:10.58\00:14:13.65
you know, what am I as a person,
00:14:13.68\00:14:15.38
you're developing yourself.
00:14:15.42\00:14:16.95
You're
developing good friendships
00:14:16.99\00:14:18.49
but the next question is,
00:14:18.52\00:14:19.85
so what do we do when
we get to that college,
00:14:19.89\00:14:21.52
we're like 18, 19, 20, 21,
22, young adult, young single,
00:14:21.56\00:14:26.23
how far is too far?
00:14:26.26\00:14:27.80
Or is there...
00:14:27.83\00:14:29.16
Do we apply the same principles
00:14:29.20\00:14:30.53
from high school to college now?
00:14:30.57\00:14:33.20
I mean, because, you
know, you come to campus,
00:14:33.23\00:14:34.57
you're freshman,
you're seeing guys,
00:14:34.60\00:14:35.94
you know what I'm saying,
00:14:35.97\00:14:37.31
there's a meet market
outside the girl's dorm,
00:14:37.34\00:14:38.67
everybody is hanging out,
00:14:38.71\00:14:40.04
trying to see who
they want to talk to.
00:14:40.08\00:14:41.41
That is how it goes now. Yeah.
00:14:41.44\00:14:42.78
So I mean, how
do we relate there?
00:14:42.81\00:14:44.28
I think the media
currently has us on pace
00:14:44.31\00:14:47.68
to feel as if we're married
before we're really married
00:14:47.72\00:14:51.35
because then the realm
of darkness can keep us
00:14:51.39\00:14:54.19
from having that
union that God has blessed
00:14:54.22\00:14:56.16
and say this is good.
00:14:56.19\00:14:57.53
This refinement is good.
00:14:57.56\00:14:59.79
So from the physical to the...
00:14:59.83\00:15:03.80
I'm gonna cook for
you or the mistake I made
00:15:03.83\00:15:06.27
in college I brought...
00:15:06.30\00:15:07.74
Praise God, my current
wife, I brought her dishes
00:15:07.77\00:15:11.27
when we were dating
and my uncle was like,
00:15:11.31\00:15:13.21
"Slow your
role-play, slow your role.
00:15:13.24\00:15:15.01
No, you don't buy
your girlfriend dishes.
00:15:15.04\00:15:17.61
You buy your wife dishes."
00:15:17.65\00:15:19.18
So I think how far is
too far on the college level,
00:15:19.21\00:15:22.75
when you are not
married but you're acting
00:15:22.78\00:15:24.79
as if you are that
maybe a cue for you.
00:15:24.82\00:15:27.66
Well, let's
define because, I mean,
00:15:27.69\00:15:30.23
I'm gonna be very
ridiculous for a second.
00:15:30.26\00:15:32.59
I mean, married people
spend exclusive time together.
00:15:32.63\00:15:35.10
So in college do I
have this exclusive time?
00:15:35.13\00:15:38.30
You see what I'm
saying as I'm going out there
00:15:38.33\00:15:40.07
'cause I mean, married
people have exclusive time.
00:15:40.10\00:15:42.04
If I am 21, 22, 23,
maybe about to graduate,
00:15:42.07\00:15:46.44
know what my
degrees about to me.
00:15:46.47\00:15:49.18
It's going to be and I
find so I'm kind of locked into.
00:15:49.21\00:15:51.78
Yeah.
00:15:51.81\00:15:53.15
And the question we
really want to get to is
00:15:53.18\00:15:54.68
when you're in a
dating relationship,
00:15:54.72\00:15:56.58
you know, can I kiss,
can I hold hands, can I hug,
00:15:56.62\00:16:00.06
what can I, what
should is, you know...
00:16:00.09\00:16:02.12
There are we talking.
00:16:02.16\00:16:03.49
Now, I'm an
individual who, you know,
00:16:03.53\00:16:04.86
we're clearly
dealing with pure choices.
00:16:04.89\00:16:06.49
So we want to
say, "Okay, you know,
00:16:06.53\00:16:07.96
pastor how far can I
go and still remain pure?
00:16:08.00\00:16:11.67
Can I kiss, you know,
can I hug, can I, you know,
00:16:11.70\00:16:15.10
late night rondevu, you
know, me and my boo, you know,
00:16:15.14\00:16:17.91
backseat and I mean,
what do we, you know,
00:16:17.94\00:16:19.57
how far is too far, you know.
00:16:19.61\00:16:21.38
So what do you do?
00:16:21.41\00:16:22.81
Not just, you know,
what do we not buy the person
00:16:22.84\00:16:24.75
or do buy the
person but like y'all,
00:16:24.78\00:16:26.11
when it comes to
our level of intimacy,
00:16:26.15\00:16:28.38
you know, how far can,
you know, how far is too far?
00:16:28.42\00:16:30.82
I'll say from a
women's perspective.
00:16:30.85\00:16:32.55
Yes, please give us
a women's perspective.
00:16:32.59\00:16:34.26
That all of these
activities even if, you know,
00:16:34.29\00:16:37.49
we try and act hard
or we try to act like
00:16:37.53\00:16:39.96
it doesn't affect us.
00:16:40.00\00:16:41.33
All of these
activities for a woman
00:16:41.36\00:16:43.16
are bonding activities.
00:16:43.20\00:16:45.93
If a guy holds
my hand as a woman,
00:16:45.97\00:16:48.94
it's a bonding activity.
00:16:48.97\00:16:50.77
You know, the
woman is like, "Yes."
00:16:50.81\00:16:52.61
You know, feeling...
00:16:52.64\00:16:53.98
And I don't know
about guys at all.
00:16:54.01\00:16:57.15
But I know for a woman,
our minds will go straight
00:16:57.18\00:16:59.75
to seeing this dude as we
walk down the altar real fast.
00:16:59.78\00:17:03.22
And so I think we
have to be careful as women
00:17:03.25\00:17:06.15
and I know
everyone is different.
00:17:06.19\00:17:08.16
But, I mean, with those,
you know, opening activities,
00:17:08.19\00:17:11.76
holding hands, hugging,
laying, you know, whatever,
00:17:11.79\00:17:15.23
you have to be careful.
00:17:15.26\00:17:16.60
If a guy tells a young
lady, "Yeah, I like you."
00:17:16.63\00:17:18.90
She really hears,
"Let's get married."
00:17:18.93\00:17:20.97
Not necessarily. Okay. Okay.
00:17:21.00\00:17:22.34
I won't say that but I'm saying,
00:17:22.37\00:17:24.67
if you're with a
guy who you really like,
00:17:24.71\00:17:27.04
you think he's really attractive
00:17:27.08\00:17:28.41
and things like
that and he is, you know,
00:17:28.44\00:17:30.41
he is holding you or hugging you
00:17:30.45\00:17:32.45
or whatever like that.
00:17:32.48\00:17:33.82
It means more?
00:17:33.85\00:17:35.18
It means more to us
because we are hardwired
00:17:35.22\00:17:37.75
for that eternal type bond.
00:17:37.79\00:17:40.79
And so I know women now
00:17:40.82\00:17:43.26
who have had
experiences with guys,
00:17:43.29\00:17:45.89
they probably have
gone beyond kissing
00:17:45.93\00:17:47.63
or whatever like
that who are with spouses
00:17:47.66\00:17:50.40
but still have an emotional bond
00:17:50.43\00:17:52.47
with the person who
they experience other things.
00:17:52.50\00:17:55.00
So you will advocate
that when you're dating
00:17:55.04\00:17:57.67
that you should not hold
hands, that you should not kiss,
00:17:57.71\00:17:59.81
that you should not?
00:17:59.84\00:18:01.18
I wouldn't say that
but I'm just saying that
00:18:01.21\00:18:03.38
we have to be very careful.
00:18:03.41\00:18:04.85
You can't hold
hands with everybody.
00:18:04.88\00:18:06.82
You can't hug and
kiss with everybody.
00:18:06.85\00:18:09.22
Okay.
00:18:09.25\00:18:10.59
And it takes I
believe the Holy Spirit,
00:18:10.62\00:18:11.99
it takes discernment
because there're going
00:18:12.02\00:18:13.82
to be sometimes where you're
with the person who you enjoy
00:18:13.86\00:18:16.93
and you wanna hold their hand,
00:18:16.96\00:18:18.29
you wanna
experience that with them.
00:18:18.33\00:18:20.06
But in our
culture we have a culture
00:18:20.10\00:18:23.57
that goes beyond
all of that stuff
00:18:23.60\00:18:25.23
that goes straight, you know.
00:18:25.27\00:18:26.60
It never stops there.
00:18:26.63\00:18:27.97
I was going to say that
and I think why it's important
00:18:28.00\00:18:29.84
to understand the difference
between men and women as well.
00:18:29.87\00:18:32.57
The one thing that
Lola just brought out,
00:18:32.61\00:18:34.34
for a woman to usually get
physically involved with a man,
00:18:34.38\00:18:38.31
there is some type of
emotional attachment there.
00:18:38.35\00:18:40.98
Before the man on the opposite,
00:18:41.02\00:18:43.08
a man can be
physically involved with a woman
00:18:43.12\00:18:45.85
and not have reached
that point of bonding.
00:18:45.89\00:18:48.09
Right. That's
what society tells us.
00:18:48.12\00:18:49.66
Right, so, I mean...
00:18:49.69\00:18:51.16
So a woman is
like, "Wow, you know,
00:18:51.19\00:18:52.66
he's holding my hand
and he's progressing down
00:18:52.69\00:18:55.16
the natural
progression of intimacy
00:18:55.20\00:18:58.03
and she's feeling,
man, he's really into me.
00:18:58.07\00:19:00.00
Whereas a guy he's just thinking
00:19:00.04\00:19:01.60
and it's just natural.
00:19:01.64\00:19:03.10
But, you know, if
I'm really feeling you
00:19:03.14\00:19:04.47
I'm holding hands,
00:19:04.51\00:19:05.84
I'm kind of thinking
about what's the next thing
00:19:05.87\00:19:08.14
that we're
going to be moving to.
00:19:08.18\00:19:09.51
Physically.
00:19:09.54\00:19:10.88
Physically. Right.
00:19:10.91\00:19:12.25
I've always heard like this,
a woman will give her heart
00:19:12.28\00:19:14.12
before she gives her body.
00:19:14.15\00:19:15.75
A man will give his body
before he gives his heart.
00:19:15.78\00:19:18.42
And I think that's
true. I think that's true.
00:19:18.45\00:19:20.99
Well, I think the
thing though that,
00:19:21.02\00:19:23.26
we have to and we
talked about triggers
00:19:23.29\00:19:25.19
and those things,
00:19:25.23\00:19:26.56
we have to know
ourselves in Christ.
00:19:26.59\00:19:28.43
Yeah, I think the
deeper we get in Christ,
00:19:28.46\00:19:30.77
if I'm dating someone and
say, "God, I want to know you,
00:19:30.80\00:19:33.10
now you tell me
and show me honestly
00:19:33.13\00:19:35.60
about myself.
00:19:35.64\00:19:36.97
If I'm holding somebody's hand,
00:19:37.01\00:19:39.11
is that going to take
me to a different place?"
00:19:39.14\00:19:41.61
Because I don't
want to go so far,
00:19:41.64\00:19:42.98
because I think
there are some people
00:19:43.01\00:19:44.35
who are very much so in
a very specific environment
00:19:44.38\00:19:48.05
in place who were
like, you know what?
00:19:48.08\00:19:49.48
Holding hands is acceptable
because I am exclusively
00:19:49.52\00:19:53.19
maybe with this one individual.
00:19:53.22\00:19:56.62
I'm not trying to
look for the next thing
00:19:56.66\00:19:58.69
but somebody else is like, yo,
00:19:58.73\00:20:00.06
but when I even just
kind of brush up against,
00:20:00.10\00:20:03.40
God has shown me
that you can't do it,
00:20:03.43\00:20:06.74
so I think it's really important
00:20:06.77\00:20:08.10
that relationship with God
to just take yourself to him.
00:20:08.14\00:20:11.11
Right.
00:20:11.14\00:20:12.47
This is me so tell me
who am I, show me who I am
00:20:12.51\00:20:15.71
in this environment
and everything like that.
00:20:15.74\00:20:17.51
I think it also goes
back to your original state
00:20:17.55\00:20:19.45
when we first
started where you said,
00:20:19.48\00:20:21.08
"We have to
understand philosophically
00:20:21.12\00:20:23.18
what is the purpose of dating?"
00:20:23.22\00:20:24.55
Yes.
00:20:24.59\00:20:25.92
You know, you're 21,
22, you're in college
00:20:25.95\00:20:27.42
or maybe you're out of
college, you're young adult,
00:20:27.46\00:20:29.16
young single woman or man.
00:20:29.19\00:20:31.39
You have to
understand what's the purpose?
00:20:31.43\00:20:33.16
I personally
believe, we can talk about it,
00:20:33.19\00:20:34.83
I personally believe
that the purpose of dating
00:20:34.86\00:20:37.17
is to discover,
"Is this the person
00:20:37.20\00:20:39.57
I can spend the
rest of my life with?"
00:20:39.60\00:20:41.47
I wouldn't want
to just date anyone
00:20:41.50\00:20:43.84
just like to occupy
time, you know, I'm bored,
00:20:43.87\00:20:47.11
there's no one out
there but you're single,
00:20:47.14\00:20:48.71
I'm single, let's date.
00:20:48.74\00:20:50.08
You know we've been
friends for a long time,
00:20:50.11\00:20:51.51
let's date, no.
00:20:51.55\00:20:52.88
I firmly believe
that the purpose of dating
00:20:52.91\00:20:54.68
is to discover
all I can discover
00:20:54.72\00:20:57.69
about this individual.
00:20:57.72\00:20:59.32
And I really believe
that in order to discover
00:20:59.35\00:21:01.29
as much as you
can about individual,
00:21:01.32\00:21:03.43
it has to remain objective.
00:21:03.46\00:21:05.36
What do I mean by objective?
00:21:05.39\00:21:06.73
I mean like you got to
keep the physical intimacy
00:21:06.76\00:21:09.76
and even the
emotional intimacy levels
00:21:09.80\00:21:12.50
very, very, low.
00:21:12.53\00:21:13.94
Because the
moment you allow intimacy
00:21:13.97\00:21:17.31
to come into picture,
00:21:17.34\00:21:18.67
you begin to
slowly lose objectivity.
00:21:18.71\00:21:22.01
And to take what you just
said a little further, Seth,
00:21:22.04\00:21:25.11
I'm really feeling like
00:21:25.15\00:21:26.58
the church on the
physical interaction
00:21:26.61\00:21:29.98
that we have when we date.
00:21:30.02\00:21:31.45
The church has
basically stepped in and said,
00:21:31.49\00:21:33.92
"No sex before marriage."
00:21:33.96\00:21:35.49
But that whole foreplay area,
00:21:35.52\00:21:37.53
that whole make out session area
00:21:37.56\00:21:39.86
we really haven't
made a stance on it.
00:21:39.89\00:21:41.40
You know, looking at
that word fornication
00:21:41.43\00:21:43.43
used in the New Testament,
00:21:43.47\00:21:45.63
it really means
sexual intercourse
00:21:45.67\00:21:47.80
between unmarried individuals,
so that's the raw definition.
00:21:47.84\00:21:51.74
So on the baseline it
looks like that simple
00:21:51.77\00:21:55.21
until we get the
people's president,
00:21:55.24\00:21:57.88
Mr. Bill Clinton, who says,
00:21:57.91\00:22:00.08
"I did not have sexual relations
00:22:00.12\00:22:02.62
with that woman."
00:22:02.65\00:22:03.99
Okay, well, what does
sexual intercourse mean?
00:22:04.02\00:22:05.95
So we can't go belt
down that's off guard.
00:22:05.99\00:22:08.89
Right. Okay.
00:22:08.92\00:22:10.26
Any contact with
reproductive organs
00:22:10.29\00:22:12.16
that's a no show.
00:22:12.19\00:22:13.53
That's
fornication. We're belt up?
00:22:13.56\00:22:14.90
I think it's when we get
to that belt up physical,
00:22:14.93\00:22:17.57
you know, the breasts
are not a reproductive organ.
00:22:17.60\00:22:20.67
They're a gland, a mammary gland
00:22:20.70\00:22:22.50
so do I get access there?
00:22:22.54\00:22:24.24
Yeah, I get that but I think
what Seth was saying though,
00:22:24.27\00:22:27.38
and I think that's the principle
00:22:27.41\00:22:29.34
that is applied it's the
idea of even if it was okay.
00:22:29.38\00:22:34.88
Will you still be able
to be objected with that?
00:22:34.92\00:22:38.09
You see what I am
saying 'cause I'm now...
00:22:38.12\00:22:40.46
There is something else,
even if we say something was,
00:22:40.49\00:22:43.32
that still might
mess up my objectivity.
00:22:43.36\00:22:46.29
Because what happens
is, I meet a young lady and,
00:22:46.33\00:22:48.76
"Man, she's nice I like her."
00:22:48.80\00:22:50.50
I want to be objective,
00:22:50.53\00:22:51.87
I want to
discover everything I can.
00:22:51.90\00:22:53.23
I want to, you know, I
want to determine, you know,
00:22:53.27\00:22:54.60
what are her interests?
00:22:54.64\00:22:55.97
What are her values?
00:22:56.00\00:22:57.34
Where is she in
her walk with the Lord?
00:22:57.37\00:22:58.71
What's her family life like?
How does she treat her father?
00:22:58.74\00:23:00.88
How does she treat her mother?
00:23:00.91\00:23:02.24
How does she treat
her brothers or siblings?
00:23:02.28\00:23:03.95
So I'm trying to
discover all these things
00:23:03.98\00:23:05.45
about her to see,
00:23:05.48\00:23:06.82
"Lord is this someone
that I can possibly spend
00:23:06.85\00:23:08.65
the rest of my life with.
00:23:08.68\00:23:10.02
Would we be a good match?
00:23:10.05\00:23:11.39
Would we be a good
couple to advance your kingdom."
00:23:11.42\00:23:13.76
However, when I allow
the subjective to come in,
00:23:13.79\00:23:16.83
when I allow the
physical intimacy,
00:23:16.86\00:23:18.63
what happens is I'm not
really concerned so much
00:23:18.66\00:23:20.70
about how she treats her father.
00:23:20.73\00:23:23.23
I'm just like, I just love her
00:23:23.26\00:23:24.60
and I'm not so
much concerned about...
00:23:24.63\00:23:26.23
What I'm saying is
part of the discovery
00:23:26.27\00:23:28.70
is physical chemistry.
00:23:28.74\00:23:30.84
I really believe that.
Yeah, physical chemistry.
00:23:30.87\00:23:32.21
Right.
00:23:32.24\00:23:33.58
So that's part of
that discovery chain.
00:23:33.61\00:23:34.94
What is physical chemistry?
00:23:34.98\00:23:36.31
Is that waist up,
so how do we kiss like
00:23:36.34\00:23:38.71
I need to know like
if you're a good kisser,
00:23:38.75\00:23:40.42
is that physical discovery?
00:23:40.45\00:23:41.78
Physical
chemistry deals with touch.
00:23:41.82\00:23:44.89
Which looks like what?
00:23:44.92\00:23:46.25
Which could look
like holding hands
00:23:46.29\00:23:47.72
or which could look like
my hand going up your blouse,
00:23:47.76\00:23:50.19
it could look like either.
00:23:50.23\00:23:51.56
But part of discovery I think
00:23:51.59\00:23:53.19
we need to be able
to conceive the point.
00:23:53.23\00:23:55.16
Part of that discovery
journey does deal with touch.
00:23:55.20\00:23:58.27
And it will deal with touch.
00:23:58.30\00:23:59.63
But my thing is when
you're putting your hand up
00:23:59.67\00:24:02.20
a woman's blouse, okay.
00:24:02.24\00:24:04.11
Understand...
00:24:04.14\00:24:05.47
Inappropriate
by the way I'd say.
00:24:05.51\00:24:06.84
Inappropriate, inappropriate,
let's put that on the table.
00:24:06.88\00:24:08.44
But understand that
this woman by and large
00:24:08.48\00:24:11.35
is either bonding with you,
00:24:11.38\00:24:14.22
I mean, in a super
way or has, I mean,
00:24:14.25\00:24:18.05
and I hate to
say it but it's true,
00:24:18.09\00:24:19.95
or has been intimate in
that way with so many people
00:24:19.99\00:24:22.82
that she's been, I
mean, seared if you will.
00:24:22.86\00:24:25.53
That, you know,
00:24:25.56\00:24:26.90
that she is unable to
value herself to that degree
00:24:26.93\00:24:30.67
and the question that
I would have, you know,
00:24:30.70\00:24:34.27
as I'm dating which I'm the only
00:24:34.30\00:24:36.10
single person on panel I guess.
00:24:36.14\00:24:37.91
You know, what I'm I doing?
00:24:37.94\00:24:42.01
Okay, yes, in
this moment, you know,
00:24:42.04\00:24:44.05
I wanna decide whether
or not I have a chemistry
00:24:44.08\00:24:46.31
with this gentleman or whatever.
00:24:46.35\00:24:48.22
But what really am I doing
00:24:48.25\00:24:50.29
in the far
reaching scheme of things.
00:24:50.32\00:24:53.52
You know, am I
really gonna be able to bond
00:24:53.56\00:24:55.69
with the person
who I'm eternally with.
00:24:55.72\00:24:58.03
If I'm doing this many bonding
00:24:58.06\00:24:59.93
or I have these
m-i-n-i many marriages,
00:24:59.96\00:25:03.06
am I really going to
be able to be objective.
00:25:03.10\00:25:06.20
I think that goes,
definitely we got a question.
00:25:06.23\00:25:07.97
I think the thing like
just before we're doing
00:25:08.00\00:25:09.94
any wrap up though, is
I'm committed to a person.
00:25:09.97\00:25:12.71
I'm pretty sure
that this is the one
00:25:12.74\00:25:14.11
that God wants me with.
00:25:14.14\00:25:15.48
We're on the road to be married.
00:25:15.51\00:25:17.61
What's appropriate
for interaction there?
00:25:17.65\00:25:19.45
I think that's a big
part too, I think we said,
00:25:19.48\00:25:21.12
hey, the other
stuff can be confusing
00:25:21.15\00:25:22.88
but I've made that decision.
00:25:22.92\00:25:24.25
I feel, yeah, that's
where I'm supposed to go.
00:25:24.29\00:25:26.45
So if I know that
that's the person,
00:25:26.49\00:25:28.76
is it okay for
me to hold her hand,
00:25:28.79\00:25:31.13
is it okay for me to
put my arm around her,
00:25:31.16\00:25:33.19
I think it's pretty
clear some of the other things.
00:25:33.23\00:25:36.06
But there are some of
those and I think that's where
00:25:36.10\00:25:37.73
there's some people
also out there, they're like,
00:25:37.77\00:25:39.57
"Hey, we're almost to
the point of engaging."
00:25:39.60\00:25:41.60
I know this is, that's it.
00:25:41.64\00:25:44.17
How do we interact
then, how do we get then?
00:25:44.21\00:25:45.57
And I think that's
the reason why some,
00:25:45.61\00:25:47.24
you know, some of the council
00:25:47.28\00:25:48.61
that's been given
is long courtship,
00:25:48.64\00:25:49.98
sort of
engagement in the sense that
00:25:50.01\00:25:51.75
during that courtship
time, during that dating time,
00:25:51.78\00:25:54.68
where you don't want a
lot of emotion involved
00:25:54.72\00:25:57.29
so that you can
make a wise decision.
00:25:57.32\00:25:59.39
You want to give it enough time
00:25:59.42\00:26:00.89
so you can make an
objective wise decision.
00:26:00.92\00:26:03.49
But then once you
get that confirmation
00:26:03.53\00:26:05.86
and there will be a
point where God will reveal
00:26:05.89\00:26:08.36
through wise council
00:26:08.40\00:26:10.27
through the
leadings of His spirit.
00:26:10.30\00:26:12.23
Many different
things that you have weighed
00:26:12.27\00:26:14.50
and you're objectively
looking at, it's like,
00:26:14.54\00:26:16.04
"Okay, this is the
person and now we're engaged."
00:26:16.07\00:26:18.77
That's what I think
needs to be like that
00:26:18.81\00:26:20.31
because now you're
gonna really wanna be kind
00:26:20.34\00:26:23.18
of rolling down that emotional,
00:26:23.21\00:26:24.95
physical part so you
got to cut that thing short.
00:26:24.98\00:26:27.12
I think even though and we talk
about a couple programs ago,
00:26:27.15\00:26:31.29
the idea of triggers.
00:26:31.32\00:26:32.65
I think even if you are
in that sort of engagement
00:26:32.69\00:26:34.29
you got to know when they were
over my house past 10 o'clock
00:26:34.32\00:26:38.26
and no one else is
there, that's the problem.
00:26:38.29\00:26:40.46
When I'm in the car,
and nobody else is there,
00:26:40.50\00:26:42.93
and this song is
on that's a problem.
00:26:42.96\00:26:44.83
So I think to help you with that
00:26:44.87\00:26:46.87
for those who
should, "Hey, make sure,
00:26:46.90\00:26:48.64
you know, what is
it that gets me going?
00:26:48.67\00:26:50.71
I'm gonna avoid that."
00:26:50.74\00:26:52.11
So to summarize these
things, we got to wrap up.
00:26:52.14\00:26:53.81
There's basically two
things you want our viewers
00:26:53.84\00:26:55.61
to really take home,
00:26:55.64\00:26:56.98
that if you're in that
high school age range 14 to 18.
00:26:57.01\00:27:01.35
The thing that you should
be focusing on is development,
00:27:01.38\00:27:03.65
development of yourself.
00:27:03.69\00:27:05.02
I want to develop
myself who am I as a person?
00:27:05.05\00:27:06.86
Who am I as a man?
Who am I as a woman?
00:27:06.89\00:27:09.06
When you get into that college,
after college dating realm,
00:27:09.09\00:27:13.19
we should go into discovery mode
00:27:13.23\00:27:14.96
discovering who this person is.
00:27:15.00\00:27:16.83
And in order to
truly discover the person,
00:27:16.87\00:27:19.40
it has to remain objective.
00:27:19.43\00:27:21.04
You can't get so caught up in it
00:27:21.07\00:27:22.77
that you lose all objectivity
and you're now just taking it
00:27:22.80\00:27:26.34
even if they
have like a hoard pass
00:27:26.37\00:27:28.34
or they're not the
right person for you,
00:27:28.38\00:27:29.74
you want to remain objective.
00:27:29.78\00:27:31.11
So we hope this
is a blessing to you.
00:27:31.15\00:27:32.91
We're gonna keep
this conversation going.
00:27:32.95\00:27:34.72
Next episode
we're gonna be dealing
00:27:34.75\00:27:36.08
with friends with benefits,
00:27:36.12\00:27:37.92
so we're just gonna
keep on talking about it.
00:27:37.95\00:27:39.85
Yeah, and we also
have our Facebook blog.
00:27:39.89\00:27:42.22
Go to Facebook,
type in Pure Choices.
00:27:42.26\00:27:44.26
If you have any questions,
comments, you can hit us there,
00:27:44.29\00:27:46.93
and we love to
dialogue with you offsite.
00:27:46.96\00:27:49.10
So we look forward
to seeing you next week
00:27:49.13\00:27:50.70
same time, same place.
00:27:50.73\00:27:52.17
Be blessed.
00:27:52.20\00:27:53.80