The following program
discusses sensitive issues
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related to addictive behavior.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Oh, welcome back.
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This is my
favorite teaching ever,
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because I've
tried a lot of things,
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when I got into recovery.
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For some of you,
there is a couple that
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have been here
for the first time.
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I am a heroin
addict in recovery,
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come from a family of addicts.
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My history was, I mean, I
had no idea about anything.
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You know, about
God, about spirituality,
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about any of that,
trying to kill myself at 23,
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I meet God.
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And He has been-- I
put some stuff on the table
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that has just been
dark and ugly stuff.
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You know, being
strung out and being on drugs
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and been a molested kid
and all that kind of stuff,
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those things that I would never
tell you in front of the pulpit,
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not because I'm
afraid to tell you,
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but it's just ugly stuff.
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You know, these things that
you don't even need to know.
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Some of it would be
abusive for me to tell you.
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You know, what I mean
and yet every single thing
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that I put in front of
God, in front of Christ,
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He just said, man,
thank you forgiving me that.
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And it's just like, He just
cleared it and set me a banquet.
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You know, just kept continuously
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taking all the stuff
which was amazing to me.
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And then you-- I don't know,
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if you have stuff
that you just wanna
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almost shake because you think.
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You know, I don't know,
if God could forgive this.
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I don't know, what
He's gonna think about this.
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I don't know, what He's gonna
think about me, if I say this.
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And yet I said that
loud trembling almost
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and He says I
know that, I love you.
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And I am like, how cool are you?
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Do you know what I
mean how cool is that?
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And this, I am just
sorry to say this to you,
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but it was such an
impact for moment to me.
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I was driving down the street
and I think when you know,
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you've been forgiven as
much as I've been forgiven.
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There are sometimes I
am just so full of joy.
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I just--I can't
even hardly stand it.
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I just-and so I am
driving down the street
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and I am listening to some songs
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and I am singing at
the top of my lungs.
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Has anybody done that?
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You're just so full of
joy and you're connected with
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everything and the sun's
out and everything is just cool
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and this song comes on the radio
and it's--I can only imagine.
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You know, incredible
song, I could only imagine.
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You know, when I am standing
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in front of Jesus,
what I am gonna do?
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And I made it and I talk up
the time but would I be silent.
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Because it's such an
incredible moment, you know,
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would I fall on my knees,
would I sing, would I dance?
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You know, what I am gonna do?
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And it says will I
dance for you Jesus
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or in awe of
you be still, right?
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But I told you my
testimony that I was
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homeless and a heroin
addict and worked as a dancer
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in clubs and all
that kind of stuff.
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And all of a sudden I
was overwhelmed by shame,
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overwhelmed, you know,
everything that I know was
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about who I am?
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And that kind of
thing came back to me
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and I thought, you
know, all of the sudden
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the ugliness of my
past was so apparent that
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it robbed me of that
joy of connecting with Jesus
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in that moment even on that day.
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And I just freaked
out and I started crying
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and I had to
pullover 'cause you know,
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I mean I was just crying so hard
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I could not continue driving.
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And I had to pull over and
I just heard the Holy Spirit
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saying I love you.
You will dance for me.
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And it's gonna be pure and holy.
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There's nothing about it
that is gonna be shameful
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and please know that
all of that will be removed.
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And I thought, I just
want to kiss you on the face.
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I just want you
to be right here.
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Why do we deserve that?
It's just ridiculously crazy.
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And what God has offered
us, and so now this right here
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I think is a most
important teaching ever.
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I'm gonna introduce you to
some friends before I start.
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And I want to just
tell you when I grab friends
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and pull them up here, a
lot of times they're like
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please don't call me.
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But I do it anyway,
because I love them.
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I meet the coolest
people all over the world
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coming from different places.
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Today, I want to
get Jamie and Kerrie up.
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Both of them have a
story different but will--
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you'll understand a
little bit about forgiveness.
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And so I am gonna
first say I love you
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and you know I love you.
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Last year, when I
was talking to Jamie,
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for the kind of the
last time and he was,
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now were you 50 pounds lighter.
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I've put on 35 kilos. Yeah.
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So, yeah.
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He was so-- I thought if you
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don't get it now
you're gonna die.
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You really are
not gonna make it.
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And didn't it feel like
that, that it's like this time.
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Yeah it was-- that was it, yeah.
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So, I wanna you
to talk a little bit.
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You're heroin
addict in recovery.
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You've been clean for how long?
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I've been clean for 11 months.
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And only 'cause I grabbed
him by the throat and said
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you get clean,
you got to do it now.
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And I was like it
was so intense 'cause
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I over the years have
really fallen in love with you.
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Really, knew that God
has a call in your life
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and yet you were
just diving down.
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I was trying to get away
from everything and everyone.
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Especially me.
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Yeah and then God put
Cheri in my path and yeah,
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she got me into a
Christian based rehab.
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And yeah I got at a
Christian base rehab
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'cause God put
Cheri in more power.
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She reached out to me
and yeah it all went from
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there and I haven't
looked back ever since.
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So it's been, yeah
God changed me along.
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He changed me
from the inside out.
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So, and I am late
man I thought that
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I was somebody that
could never change ever.
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So, yeah, God does do miracles.
So are you brave enough?
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Yeah, to tell them
what started your addiction?
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'Cause we thing
people just go out and party
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and in they're out
there to just get high,
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but you started
for a specific reason.
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Yeah I was
molested as a young child
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by a family member by an uncle.
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So I am just after
that my life just spun
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out of control and yeah
I've found drugs what Cheri
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says you know
talking that--you know,
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it was just to kill the pain.
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So yeah, and then look I
was screaming out to help
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as a young kid just--
yeah that's the only way
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I could get rid of
the pain, was you know,
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I was started on
marijuana, alcohol,
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spirit and then
soon as I found heroin.
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I just never looked back.
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I used it for 20 years straight,
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in and out of jail fled out.
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How many kids did you
have in the mean time?
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Yeah, I had two children,
that didn't even stop me.
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So yeah and yeah I've got
a beautiful partner Kerrie.
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She stood by me
for 20 years of just--
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I was a mess dead set mess.
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And Kerrie stuck
by me the whole time.
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Threw me over jail
sentences over drug use,
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saw the abuse, saw everything,
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I was the shocking
partner and just yeah.
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She really showed me what
as a Christian person is look.
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Our God forgiven for
everything for Kerrie,
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so and that's I
think that's because of her
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religious
background and her God.
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Yeah, so--
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It's really
interesting as our first time.
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When did we meet?
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Well, how was
it a few years ago?
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It was 2009.
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Yeah, so what's really
interesting to me is you
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you see I saw you in
your addictions and so strong
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and it was like
you know now I am good.
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You were so not
good. Don't lie to me.
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And you know, you
didn't even know me.
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You're right, so you
just playing this whole thing
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and so but anyway
what's really interesting
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is even in that-- you see this
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incredible man of God
that's locked in there.
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Do you know what I
mean just locked in there
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and knowing that more
than likely something happened,
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'cause we talked
about and people don't just
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become addict,
usually there's some pain,
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some junk and so it was
really incredible to meet
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you and to be on
this journey with you.
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And I can't wait to
work with you in a huge way.
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But I think the
testimony here is you.
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You know, 'cause you
know the addict we could just
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get high again--
but the family member
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or the partner,
your wife your kids,
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they have to walk through it.
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They are not numbing themselves.
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So what was that like I mean?
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Oh, it was
horrible, just horrible.
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Just, watching at the
start it wasn't so bad.
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It was just sort of deteriorated
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it just went on but I just--
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there was always
that hope there for me.
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I could say that man of God,
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'cause I grew up
in a Christian home--
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had nothing to do with
that whole drug world at all.
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And Jamie and I crossed paths
and just never looked back.
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But it was just
horrendous to go through it,
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just not knowing each
day is he--is he dead,
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you know, is he
going to come home.
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You know, what do
I tell my children.
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Always dad, falling
asleep on the couch.
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You know they always wondered
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why dad was
tired all the time in.
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It's just a
horrible, horrible thing.
00:10:35.40\00:10:37.54
So in with how did
you--'cause we're talking
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about even forgiveness on today,
00:10:40.30\00:10:42.70
how did youforgive him?
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Is it you know--'cause a
lot of people are in that
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situation even though
they look really great?
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Yeah. You know
'cause you look great.
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Yeah You came to
church you smiled.
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I've never told anyone
what was going on, never.
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And you know when people
say how you're doing, oh good?
00:10:55.46\00:10:57.71
Good. It was
good, no one even knew.
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I would just, I
mean people would have--
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knew something was going on.
00:11:02.78\00:11:04.15
But I never
ever talked about it.
00:11:04.18\00:11:06.14
It just it was
something I kept to myself
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and I kept believing
that it's gonna go away.
00:11:09.10\00:11:11.82
Locked key he will be
right tomorrow, tomorrow,
00:11:11.85\00:11:14.48
tomorrow and yeah--
00:11:14.51\00:11:16.70
And there is part of
not telling for you know
00:11:16.73\00:11:21.01
for shame, but it's also part of
00:11:21.04\00:11:22.86
not telling because you
don't want to dishonor him.
00:11:22.89\00:11:25.14
Yeah. When he stands up.
00:11:25.17\00:11:26.76
I mean so you're really
conflicted in that. Yeah
00:11:26.79\00:11:29.06
You know, and so
would how are you doing?
00:11:29.09\00:11:31.87
You've been clean
for less than a year.
00:11:31.90\00:11:34.27
Yeah I am doing really good.
Yeah, you have to forgive him.
00:11:34.30\00:11:38.36
Yeah How was that?
00:11:38.39\00:11:39.99
Its, it is a
hard. So process it is.
00:11:40.02\00:11:44.67
As cute as you are.
Yeah, it is too hard.
00:11:44.70\00:11:47.98
I understand. Yeah.
00:11:48.01\00:11:49.89
Now that I am
stride on that. Yeah, yeah.
00:11:49.92\00:11:51.94
And what's really to me
amazing about both of you
00:11:51.97\00:11:54.65
as a couple is
as you learn that,
00:11:54.68\00:11:57.12
you gonna be able
to reach out. Yeah
00:11:57.15\00:11:59.22
And help a ton of folks
that really are in that place.
00:11:59.25\00:12:02.41
And that's why I think
you know I love the way God
00:12:02.44\00:12:05.51
is using you right now,
just standing out getting that
00:12:05.54\00:12:09.04
clear and then I can't
even tell you even this weekend,
00:12:09.07\00:12:13.46
like I said its good
as everybody looks. Yeah.
00:12:13.49\00:12:15.72
There are people dealing
with the exact same thing
00:12:15.75\00:12:18.08
and they're dying
to tell someone. Yeah
00:12:18.11\00:12:20.14
Because it's hard to
carry that's so much. Yeah.
00:12:20.17\00:12:23.11
But I always needed
that if it became too much
00:12:23.14\00:12:26.71
for me that God would
remove me from situation.
00:12:26.74\00:12:30.83
I just knew that
he would never let me.
00:12:30.86\00:12:33.50
I mean, there was days
where I don't want to get
00:12:33.53\00:12:35.23
out of bed just
because you know distress.
00:12:35.26\00:12:38.00
But I knew that if it
became too much that God
00:12:38.03\00:12:40.95
won't let me go through
anymore than I can handle.
00:12:40.98\00:12:44.93
So I was clearly
stronger than I thought.
00:12:44.96\00:12:47.69
Then you know,
what's as you become
00:12:47.72\00:12:49.09
the spiritual
leader of this home again.
00:12:49.12\00:12:51.48
Man, I'm so--I can't
even tell you how much
00:12:51.51\00:12:55.49
I respect what you're doing.
00:12:55.52\00:12:56.89
And how much I
just know your kids
00:12:56.92\00:12:59.55
and Kerrie are
just gonna be blessing.
00:12:59.58\00:13:01.41
As your friend I
am gonna be blessed.
00:13:01.44\00:13:03.71
You know, and as I develops.
00:13:03.74\00:13:05.37
You know, it's really good.
00:13:05.40\00:13:07.46
So I am wrapped
with the right arm,
00:13:07.49\00:13:11.06
I am at the moment. Me too.
00:13:11.09\00:13:12.72
I have never been like
this in hard lock since
00:13:12.75\00:13:15.67
i was a teenaged kid.
00:13:15.70\00:13:17.07
So you know,
yeah, it's good to know
00:13:17.10\00:13:20.69
what's going on
and actually really oh,
00:13:20.72\00:13:23.37
man really know
what's going around me,
00:13:23.40\00:13:25.56
because I sorted out it.
00:13:25.59\00:13:28.23
I like that, really
just be cognizant for us.
00:13:28.26\00:13:31.00
Yeah, and it's
really hard lock for me
00:13:31.03\00:13:33.92
and my children and Kerrie
too just 'cause I have been
00:13:33.95\00:13:37.51
a mess for that
long, but now that I am not
00:13:37.54\00:13:40.65
I suppose it's gonna take
me a long time to entrusting
00:13:40.68\00:13:43.28
things back you know.
00:13:43.31\00:13:45.10
Which is what I am working now,
00:13:45.13\00:13:46.74
but its really
hard but I sit down
00:13:46.77\00:13:49.60
and I look at my kids
sometimes and think you know,
00:13:49.63\00:13:52.41
I've got no idea
how I put them through,
00:13:52.44\00:13:55.01
what I put them through Kerrie
00:13:55.04\00:13:56.41
as well as
everybody that I know.
00:13:56.44\00:13:58.24
Yeah and I walk across, so
that I wasn't hurting anybody
00:13:58.27\00:14:00.01
but there was
people that loved me.
00:14:00.04\00:14:02.88
And there was you know,
that would hurt in the inside
00:14:02.91\00:14:05.59
especially my children I think--
00:14:05.62\00:14:07.56
And being so forgiveness is
gonna be forgiving yourself.
00:14:07.59\00:14:10.68
And getting them
helping them to forgive you.
00:14:10.71\00:14:13.62
All of that kind of stuff.
00:14:13.65\00:14:15.02
You know, is there
anything and this is kind of
00:14:15.05\00:14:17.15
putting you on
the spot right now.
00:14:17.18\00:14:18.55
But is there
anything that you would like
00:14:18.58\00:14:20.84
the church to know
about what you're having
00:14:20.87\00:14:23.59
to deal with and
how they could help you.
00:14:23.62\00:14:25.29
Now you just pray, just pray,
00:14:28.47\00:14:30.83
it's probably the
best way because--
00:14:30.86\00:14:32.65
How about be
patient? Yeah, yeah.
00:14:32.68\00:14:35.18
Be patient
because you know what?
00:14:35.21\00:14:38.18
This is gonna be such
an incredible man of God.
00:14:38.21\00:14:40.20
But he's going to
stumble around at times.
00:14:40.23\00:14:42.21
He's gonna may be say things
that you just think you know,
00:14:42.24\00:14:44.79
and you gonna want to step away.
00:14:44.82\00:14:46.34
Don't you dare? Yeah.
00:14:46.37\00:14:48.37
You know, step closer to him.
00:14:48.40\00:14:50.34
Step closer to
her, being able to tell
00:14:50.37\00:14:53.00
even these kids
that are going to have
00:14:53.03\00:14:54.71
to deal with all
that kind of stuff.
00:14:54.74\00:14:56.44
Is as a church we've the
privilege of watching them
00:14:56.47\00:15:00.14
be released from
what the devil has
00:15:00.17\00:15:01.55
almost taken them out with.
00:15:01.58\00:15:03.29
And its just like
I know I wanna just
00:15:03.32\00:15:05.62
as much as I can
show faces of people
00:15:05.65\00:15:08.22
that are
sitting down in the pews
00:15:08.25\00:15:10.70
and they're
saying--no, no I am good.
00:15:10.73\00:15:14.18
You know, thank
you for coming up.
00:15:14.21\00:15:16.73
I am always. All
right, give me a kiss.
00:15:16.76\00:15:20.61
I love you. Okay.
00:15:20.64\00:15:22.95
How cool are they?
00:15:30.59\00:15:32.49
Okay, so the next
person I want you to meet
00:15:32.52\00:15:36.02
is one of my best friends,
and you just got to come up.
00:15:36.05\00:15:42.92
When--and I am gonna
let her tell the story
00:15:42.95\00:15:45.12
'cause there when
sometimes when I tell the story
00:15:45.15\00:15:46.86
I think I am being a
little disrespectful.
00:15:46.89\00:15:49.24
Now you got to jump in,
it's not the side of you.
00:15:49.27\00:15:51.10
Okay, I will jump
in, I will jump in.
00:15:51.13\00:15:52.54
So this is Danny, she
is one of my best friends.
00:15:52.57\00:15:55.46
In ministry has done a
lot of things on her own.
00:15:55.49\00:15:58.29
And she just did a series
called the 'Beyond the Search',
00:15:58.32\00:16:00.47
it's an incredible series.
00:16:00.50\00:16:01.87
She is the host for
Infocus, but when we met,
00:16:01.90\00:16:06.88
you were depressed,
suicidal sitting in front
00:16:06.91\00:16:09.08
of a T.V. wanting
to take yourself out.
00:16:09.11\00:16:11.31
Who would have thought?
00:16:11.34\00:16:14.35
Yeah, so I had I will just
backtrack to it just to give.
00:16:14.38\00:16:17.97
Yeah, yeah.
00:16:18.00\00:16:19.37
So, I grew up in a broken home.
00:16:19.40\00:16:22.76
Basically didn't see my dad
from when I was six to sixteen,
00:16:22.79\00:16:26.11
they split up when I was two.
00:16:26.14\00:16:27.51
You really are backtracking.
00:16:27.54\00:16:28.91
I am but I am just
gonna go real quick.
00:16:28.94\00:16:30.31
All right. Just
'cause there's a point.
00:16:30.34\00:16:31.74
All right, go.
00:16:31.77\00:16:33.14
And then they both
remarry, living with my
00:16:33.17\00:16:36.15
mom and my step dad who
is really like very abusive?
00:16:36.18\00:16:41.28
You know smacks
my head into walls,
00:16:41.31\00:16:42.68
swears at me, calls me
the equivalent of prostitute.
00:16:42.71\00:16:44.87
You're pretty much
when nobody was around.
00:16:44.90\00:16:46.90
Yeah. Which made it
worse for a kid I think.
00:16:46.93\00:16:49.23
The verbal stuff, yeah,
00:16:49.26\00:16:50.63
the physical was
when no one was around.
00:16:50.66\00:16:52.03
So my mom just like totally
went into a clinical depression
00:16:52.06\00:16:55.16
was hospitalized,
couldn't show affection.
00:16:55.19\00:16:59.14
And yeah and so I had
all that abandonment abuse.
00:16:59.17\00:17:03.04
All that stuff going on.
00:17:03.07\00:17:04.47
Yeah, was just that your
mom was just trying to survive.
00:17:04.50\00:17:06.24
She was. Totally disassociated.
00:17:06.27\00:17:07.64
Yeah, totally. Yeah.
00:17:07.67\00:17:09.04
She could sit in front of
the T.V and I will be mom,
00:17:09.07\00:17:11.04
mom, mom and just she
would not hear a thing.
00:17:11.07\00:17:16.24
You ended up
'cause now we have to go.
00:17:16.27\00:17:18.82
'cause when what I really
loved the fact that one point
00:17:18.85\00:17:22.49
she finally gets
done, and gets right in
00:17:22.52\00:17:24.95
somebody's face
and curses them out.
00:17:24.98\00:17:26.69
And realizes that for
some reason that worked.
00:17:26.72\00:17:29.34
So you jumped into anger,
00:17:29.37\00:17:31.31
rebellion all of
that kind of stuff.
00:17:31.34\00:17:33.42
Yeah, that was my step dad.
00:17:33.45\00:17:36.49
In my teenage years
my mom and him split up.
00:17:36.52\00:17:38.44
And I just confronted him
one day and I was just so angry
00:17:38.47\00:17:42.22
and I had that 14 years
of just rage and I just said,
00:17:42.25\00:17:47.67
"You know what?
you're not my father.
00:17:47.70\00:17:49.07
You don't live here anymore.
00:17:49.10\00:17:50.47
So what are you
just blankety blank?"
00:17:50.50\00:17:52.64
And he just didn't
hit me or anything.
00:17:52.67\00:17:56.64
He just sort of
turned around and walked out.
00:17:56.67\00:17:58.43
And I thought wow,
and I knew from that
00:17:58.46\00:18:01.77
moment on that I
would never let anyone.
00:18:01.80\00:18:04.63
And I met a valentine
I never make it there.
00:18:04.66\00:18:07.39
I am like this without
doubt that no one would
00:18:07.42\00:18:09.37
ever have that kind
of power over me again.
00:18:09.40\00:18:11.92
And so teachers, parents,
00:18:11.95\00:18:13.97
anyone, I'll
just curse them out.
00:18:14.00\00:18:15.72
And I just got to go
back just to day yesterday
00:18:15.75\00:18:18.01
when we talked about why
people choose addictions.
00:18:18.04\00:18:20.60
When you received that power,
all the sudden I have this power
00:18:20.63\00:18:24.44
and it worked she is gone
for the next, how many years?
00:18:24.47\00:18:29.61
At least ten. Yeah.
00:18:29.64\00:18:32.30
And so now what's
really interesting to me is
00:18:32.33\00:18:34.74
then you came into the church.
00:18:34.77\00:18:38.98
Yeah, yeah I lost the baby which
got me in the whole other track
00:18:39.01\00:18:43.19
and yeah basically found God
when I went going to ministry.
00:18:43.22\00:18:47.05
Within 18
months I was preaching,
00:18:47.08\00:18:49.59
within three years I had
my first called ministry.
00:18:49.62\00:18:52.25
And so and then what got
the depression when we met.
00:18:52.28\00:18:56.13
Yeah. That's pretty intense.
00:18:56.16\00:18:57.53
Yeah it was I had a lot of
basically one of the churches
00:18:57.56\00:19:01.24
we got called to
basically both myself out
00:19:01.27\00:19:05.00
and I also had
some health issues.
00:19:05.03\00:19:06.70
I got a staph
infection you know started
00:19:06.73\00:19:09.27
and you know
lots of that's away,
00:19:09.30\00:19:11.08
had a ton of situations
where I just basically
00:19:11.11\00:19:15.28
went into clinical depression,
anxiety, panic attacks
00:19:15.31\00:19:18.93
and all that kind of stuff.
00:19:18.96\00:19:20.33
And I was so
damaged and so hurt that
00:19:20.36\00:19:22.54
I just totally shut off,
totally closed off my heart,
00:19:22.57\00:19:25.61
and I said I will not connect.
00:19:25.64\00:19:27.01
I'm not
connective with my husband
00:19:27.04\00:19:28.41
because we were
dealing with stuff.
00:19:28.44\00:19:29.81
I'm not connective with friends.
00:19:29.84\00:19:31.21
I am just; 3ABN is
gonna be my church.
00:19:31.24\00:19:33.63
And you know the couch is
more comfortable than pew in.
00:19:33.66\00:19:37.02
And I will
someway doing ministry.
00:19:37.05\00:19:38.63
Where I can and I
just basically withdrew.
00:19:38.66\00:19:43.79
And so one night
I am sitting down
00:19:43.82\00:19:46.46
and I am attending my
church and watching 3ABN
00:19:46.49\00:19:49.80
and this new show comes on.
00:19:49.83\00:19:51.43
And its kind of funky
graphics and interesting music.
00:19:51.46\00:19:54.50
And I'm thinking what's this?
00:19:54.53\00:19:56.41
And I really related to it,
00:19:56.44\00:19:59.78
because I am not the
traditional Adventist.
00:19:59.81\00:20:01.60
I got to fit into that box,
because it's not my background--
00:20:01.63\00:20:03.73
I don't have any Adventist.
00:20:03.76\00:20:05.23
Family and its
Cheri, I am so they left
00:20:05.26\00:20:08.06
in recovery
sharing her testimony.
00:20:08.09\00:20:10.63
And let me just jump in
because I just want to say
00:20:10.66\00:20:13.47
there is no longer
a typical Adventist.
00:20:13.50\00:20:16.13
So just anybody hear me.
00:20:16.16\00:20:17.65
There is no longer
so just kind of rebuke
00:20:17.68\00:20:20.31
that in your mind because we
are the typical Adventist now.
00:20:20.34\00:20:24.93
And so just, I
just had to say that.
00:20:24.96\00:20:26.62
So let's use the
word traditional.
00:20:26.65\00:20:28.02
Yeah, yeah. Yeah
00:20:28.05\00:20:29.42
But I love even how you
said that I just want to,
00:20:29.45\00:20:32.27
every time I
hear I think it's us.
00:20:32.30\00:20:34.37
Yeah. And how funny is
that we are typical now.
00:20:34.40\00:20:38.20
Its ridiculous go ahead.
00:20:38.23\00:20:39.75
So I am watching all
this and I am feeling
00:20:39.78\00:20:42.59
really connected and you know,
00:20:42.62\00:20:44.07
in my heart just
it was like a relief.
00:20:44.10\00:20:47.08
You know, and I just
said out loud thank God.
00:20:47.11\00:20:52.11
Finally, someone else
who is normal in the church
00:20:52.14\00:20:55.69
and she laughs and I
said that what's--no,
00:20:55.72\00:20:57.33
I am normal but she was
real and roar and authentic
00:20:57.36\00:21:00.90
and I mean is that,
isn't what reaches everyone.
00:21:00.93\00:21:03.33
This is what we
need. We need Cheri.
00:21:03.36\00:21:05.44
This is a new
normal. I love that.
00:21:05.47\00:21:09.39
We need more normal.
That's why we are friends.
00:21:09.42\00:21:12.06
My God go ahead.
It's normal to us.
00:21:12.09\00:21:14.78
That's what seems. Yeah, yeah.
00:21:14.81\00:21:16.18
And so I thought wow, you know,
00:21:16.21\00:21:18.96
I got to Google or
find more about this,
00:21:18.99\00:21:21.68
because I need this,
but I know the people
00:21:21.71\00:21:23.93
I worked with in
ministry need this.
00:21:23.96\00:21:26.38
Not that I was in any position
00:21:26.41\00:21:27.78
to be ministering
at that point. Yeah.
00:21:27.81\00:21:29.55
And so a couple of
days later before I even had
00:21:29.58\00:21:32.35
a chance to Google anything.
00:21:32.38\00:21:34.37
I am--I go to my workplace
where I just resigned from
00:21:34.40\00:21:39.01
which was a
community centre at the church,
00:21:39.04\00:21:41.12
it's part of my role.
00:21:41.15\00:21:42.52
I am walking and someone
turned at these box of books.
00:21:42.55\00:21:44.78
So I am not walking past.
00:21:44.81\00:21:47.06
And I thought that
looks like that Cheri Peters,
00:21:47.09\00:21:49.89
checked in I pick up the book.
00:21:49.92\00:21:52.09
And it's a copy of
Miracle from the Streets,
00:21:52.12\00:21:54.12
like who would
have even thought.
00:21:54.15\00:21:55.83
So I read this book
you know in three minutes
00:21:55.86\00:21:58.03
and for the next probably
six months God hassles me
00:21:58.06\00:22:01.36
you need to connect with Cheri.
00:22:01.39\00:22:04.40
And I had no idea you
know what it was a about
00:22:04.43\00:22:06.77
eventually I contact you and--
00:22:06.80\00:22:10.30
She said it's so funny.
00:22:10.33\00:22:12.05
Would you like to
come to Australia?
00:22:12.08\00:22:13.84
I said, yes. I just
still remember that-
00:22:13.87\00:22:17.22
You know, how fun is
that. You know, what I mean.
00:22:17.25\00:22:19.18
I am just like I
don't even know who she is,
00:22:19.21\00:22:21.04
but I am thinking
I never, you know,
00:22:21.07\00:22:22.69
one of the places you know in
your heart as a kid you think.
00:22:22.72\00:22:25.41
Oh, I'd love to see
this--oh, I'd love to see that.
00:22:25.44\00:22:27.28
Australia was one of my places
and so I just let have fun.
00:22:27.31\00:22:30.28
And she is like you know--
I got a message straight back
00:22:30.31\00:22:34.10
which is really you
know unusual to you.
00:22:34.13\00:22:36.18
And I am going--
and she is like, yes,
00:22:36.21\00:22:38.85
I am invited I am saw
you there with smiling faces
00:22:38.88\00:22:41.56
and I'm like woo-woo.
00:22:41.59\00:22:44.19
So and so you know
the ball started rolling
00:22:44.22\00:22:46.16
and so over the next
year you know we're in touch,
00:22:46.19\00:22:49.02
and I am organizing
events and we end up doing
00:22:49.05\00:22:53.97
for churches, camp meeting
in focusing to--it is written.
00:22:54.00\00:22:58.76
And yeah and we
really haven't looked back.
00:22:58.79\00:23:01.60
Its really been fun.
It's really been incredible.
00:23:01.63\00:23:03.00
So you know I
have to get into this.
00:23:03.03\00:23:04.60
Yeah. So do you mind
if I finish this story.
00:23:04.63\00:23:06.54
No, you go for it. So
if I get anything wrong,
00:23:06.57\00:23:09.49
just jump up. Okay.
00:23:09.52\00:23:12.14
So anyhow she invites me down
and the only reason that I have
00:23:12.17\00:23:15.18
her sitting down is
just because I know her
00:23:15.21\00:23:16.82
and I can take over
and we can go on and on,
00:23:16.85\00:23:18.80
because we just are friends.
00:23:18.83\00:23:20.60
But she invites me and
then I stay at her house.
00:23:20.63\00:23:23.23
And you know we are so
excited we have connected over
00:23:23.26\00:23:28.17
the last year just online,
was it about a how long was it?
00:23:28.20\00:23:31.81
But we connected
over a little bit online.
00:23:31.84\00:23:34.79
I know that we
have similar hearts,
00:23:34.82\00:23:36.37
we have similar
thoughts about God I mean
00:23:36.40\00:23:39.62
all of that kind of stuff
and so we make a connection.
00:23:39.65\00:23:42.13
So by the time I get to her
house I feel like I know her.
00:23:42.16\00:23:44.46
But I get to her house
and her kids are farrow.
00:23:44.49\00:23:48.75
Do you know what I mean?
00:23:48.78\00:23:50.15
I don't know, I didn't
even know what that word meant.
00:23:50.18\00:23:52.17
But she kind of said
it. And then I saw it.
00:23:52.20\00:23:56.50
I thought oh,
that's what it means.
00:23:56.53\00:23:58.14
You know there were
times that we would be talking
00:23:58.17\00:24:01.06
and one kid would
have like a bag of cheese
00:24:01.09\00:24:04.68
with a top cutoff and just like
swinging it all over the house.
00:24:04.71\00:24:08.82
You know, and she would
not break contact with me.
00:24:08.85\00:24:12.17
She just be talking,
I'm thinking all right.
00:24:12.20\00:24:15.67
You know, we've
been and then one time
00:24:15.70\00:24:17.91
somebody puts
something in the microwave.
00:24:17.94\00:24:20.81
It was and there's so smoke,
its piling out of the microwave.
00:24:20.84\00:24:24.46
And the kids are
doing this and I am thinking
00:24:24.49\00:24:26.86
I am just gonna go
to my room for a minute,
00:24:26.89\00:24:29.03
you know,
because I just have to.
00:24:29.06\00:24:30.49
And her daughter
would come up and say mom.
00:24:30.52\00:24:32.69
mom, mom, and grab
her face and turn her face
00:24:32.72\00:24:35.30
and she would
still be looking at me.
00:24:35.33\00:24:38.08
Faced turned this way
but eyes looking at me.
00:24:38.11\00:24:40.11
And I am thinking I
just have to go to my room.
00:24:40.14\00:24:42.03
So I go to room. There's
no door arm on the doors.
00:24:42.06\00:24:48.38
So you know,
you've to come up here.
00:24:48.41\00:24:52.43
Some people think I am
not just talking about you.
00:24:52.46\00:24:54.64
So anyhow-- so
we got to my room.
00:24:54.67\00:24:56.40
There's no door
nuts on the doors,
00:24:56.43\00:24:57.80
because you guys
are fixing up the house.
00:24:57.83\00:24:59.20
That's right. And
the kids are coming in
00:24:59.23\00:25:02.06
and jumping over me running
around my bed jumping over me,
00:25:02.09\00:25:05.64
running around my
bed, jumping over me,
00:25:05.67\00:25:07.20
running around my bed.
00:25:07.23\00:25:08.60
And she is not
exaggerating with any of these.
00:25:08.63\00:25:10.00
No, no I am not-- you
know, I am not exaggerating
00:25:10.03\00:25:11.98
because she is my friend.
00:25:12.01\00:25:13.92
But anyhow so I am thinking,
I just pretend that I'm asleep.
00:25:13.95\00:25:19.33
Right, and so eventually
the kids got tired because
00:25:19.36\00:25:21.83
I just really
pretended I was asleep
00:25:21.86\00:25:24.28
and so they would
go do something else.
00:25:24.31\00:25:26.00
And then I would like
you, have to like you put
00:25:26.03\00:25:27.98
something in front of that door.
00:25:28.01\00:25:29.55
So I put everything I
owned. The boxes of books.
00:25:29.58\00:25:31.43
The boxes of books.
00:25:31.46\00:25:33.02
Like suitcase and
all that kind of stuff.
00:25:33.05\00:25:34.89
And then I would come
out and all this craziness
00:25:34.92\00:25:37.87
will be going on and
she would be talking to me
00:25:37.90\00:25:41.20
and when we talked
it was really cool.
00:25:41.23\00:25:43.47
The conversation was cool,
but it was all of this stuff
00:25:43.50\00:25:46.16
was going on and Danni
really has a heart for ministry.
00:25:46.19\00:25:51.29
So she was like ah, I'd like you
to pray for me, for ministry.
00:25:51.32\00:25:55.99
Clearly I was
ready. I am like no.
00:25:56.02\00:26:00.89
I have to go to my room
again. I have to go my room.
00:26:00.92\00:26:04.40
And I would jut be like,
God, how do you tell someone.
00:26:04.43\00:26:08.91
You know, wow, you
got to pay attention.
00:26:08.94\00:26:11.61
You know and I go
to my room and come out
00:26:11.64\00:26:13.54
and she was like, you just
started to get concern like,
00:26:13.57\00:26:16.53
you don't' want to pray
for me for ministry, do you?
00:26:16.56\00:26:19.05
And I am like, I got to
go to my room for a minute.
00:26:19.08\00:26:21.22
So I go to my room,
I'm praying about stuff
00:26:21.25\00:26:23.15
and finally God says, sit down
and just be honest with her.
00:26:23.18\00:26:26.66
And so I sat down, it
was one of the hardest
00:26:26.69\00:26:29.04
conversations ever to hear.
Yeah, for both of us I think.
00:26:29.07\00:26:33.11
So I sit down and I said,
I would like to pray for you,
00:26:33.14\00:26:36.73
but I would like to
pray for you as a mother.
00:26:36.76\00:26:38.72
Do you know what I mean?
00:26:38.75\00:26:40.12
To be anointed as a mother,
because I feel like my mom
00:26:40.15\00:26:44.27
is very disconnected from me.
00:26:44.30\00:26:45.67
Very--I never had
that kind of connection,
00:26:45.70\00:26:49.39
she never saw me and
I feel like when I look
00:26:49.42\00:26:51.12
at your daughter the
same thing is happening.
00:26:51.15\00:26:53.29
And it just hurts me. And so
I would like to pray for that.
00:26:53.32\00:26:56.43
And in your
reaction it was intense
00:26:56.46\00:26:59.21
I could see it all
over your face and body.
00:26:59.24\00:27:01.74
Yeah, it was
probably the hardest thing
00:27:01.77\00:27:03.49
I have ever heard apart from
00:27:03.52\00:27:05.88
when I was told
that my baby had died.
00:27:05.91\00:27:07.76
But little things just
sort of flash before me
00:27:07.79\00:27:09.98
and I knew I had a choice.
00:27:10.01\00:27:13.82
I could either choose to heal
or choose to stay in my damage.
00:27:13.85\00:27:18.20
But I have that
realization all of a sudden that
00:27:18.23\00:27:21.74
this was my damage as a child.
00:27:21.77\00:27:24.69
I'm now damaging Cheri because
I am tricking all her stuff.
00:27:24.72\00:27:27.57
But not only that
even worse he said
00:27:27.60\00:27:29.21
I've now become perpetrator
of that same damage of my kids.
00:27:29.24\00:27:34.13
And-- So we prayed about
that and now you can sit down.
00:27:34.16\00:27:40.44
Yeah. That's okay.
00:27:40.47\00:27:42.11
So, okay, we prayed about that
00:27:42.14\00:27:44.10
and it was such a
moment because I think
00:27:44.13\00:27:46.60
that I thought the same thing.
00:27:46.63\00:27:48.00
She had a choice
to even kick me out
00:27:48.03\00:27:49.90
of her house, to be done.
00:27:49.93\00:27:51.30
I am done with you.
00:27:51.33\00:27:52.70
You know it's
really tough to tell
00:27:52.73\00:27:55.24
someone about their parenting.
00:27:55.27\00:27:56.64
It's really tough to get into
somebody's life that personal.
00:27:56.67\00:27:59.50
Lot of times people
won't give you permission.
00:27:59.53\00:28:01.48
But anyhow, so we
actually got through that,
00:28:01.51\00:28:04.93
prayed through that,
connected thought that,
00:28:04.96\00:28:08.04
and then I had to get ready
for a gig 'cause the whole time
00:28:08.07\00:28:10.52
I am speaking you know
and so I am kind of exhausted,
00:28:10.55\00:28:13.23
because all of this
craziness is going around.
00:28:13.26\00:28:15.54
And now, you know,
I am gonna get ready
00:28:15.57\00:28:19.27
and I go into the bathroom
and I am just getting ready--
00:28:19.30\00:28:23.00
and all of the
sudden God tells me through
00:28:23.03\00:28:25.92
the Holy Spirit, that
your mom had five kids,
00:28:25.95\00:28:29.54
and no one to support her.
00:28:29.57\00:28:31.17
She
disassociated with five kids.
00:28:31.20\00:28:34.21
You know, I want you to
get a sense when you watch,
00:28:34.24\00:28:37.27
what's happening here?
00:28:37.30\00:28:38.67
I want you to think about what
happened with your own mother.
00:28:38.70\00:28:42.33
You know, and all of the sudden
00:28:42.36\00:28:43.80
I saw my mom in a
totally different way.
00:28:43.83\00:28:46.28
I almost broke for her.
00:28:46.31\00:28:47.94
You know, when she
had to disassociate.
00:28:47.97\00:28:49.49
When she had a pull
away, we're just to survive.
00:28:49.52\00:28:52.11
She learned that from her mom
and so I think that God used,
00:28:52.14\00:28:55.85
not used you know just heal both
of us in such an incredible way
00:28:55.88\00:29:00.18
that I was able
to have such empathy
00:29:00.21\00:29:03.20
for my mom in a different way.
00:29:03.23\00:29:05.59
I couldn't wait
to ask her, you know,
00:29:05.62\00:29:08.73
for her to forgive me.
00:29:08.76\00:29:10.23
You know, can God give
me an incredible opportunity
00:29:10.26\00:29:13.52
with my mom is to look
at what I demanded from her
00:29:13.55\00:29:20.22
over the years as a
little kid so needy,
00:29:20.25\00:29:24.00
and what she couldn't give me.
00:29:24.03\00:29:26.64
And how much shame and emotional
damage that caused for her.
00:29:26.67\00:29:31.18
Does that make sense?
00:29:31.21\00:29:32.68
You know, what I
mean because I have always
00:29:32.71\00:29:34.08
thought about
the emotional damage
00:29:34.11\00:29:35.48
that my stuff was
but I never thought
00:29:35.51\00:29:39.10
about what happened with her?
00:29:39.13\00:29:41.33
And every time she
saw me wanted to be hugged
00:29:41.36\00:29:43.40
and loved and all
that kind of stuff.
00:29:43.43\00:29:45.02
But she did with
that for herself.
00:29:45.05\00:29:46.63
I mean it really trashed her.
00:29:46.66\00:29:48.03
So I think that
was so amazing for me.
00:29:48.06\00:29:50.65
So today we're
gonna be talking about,
00:29:50.68\00:29:52.22
we're gonna talk about
what I have learned about
00:29:52.25\00:29:54.23
forgiveness and I had to
learn I wanted--so any of that.
00:29:54.26\00:29:59.83
So to me I think forgiveness
and everything that we talk
00:29:59.86\00:30:02.54
about in recovery, every
thing we talk about as a church.
00:30:02.57\00:30:04.75
Everything that we talk
about and all that kind of stuff
00:30:04.78\00:30:06.97
everything comes down to this.
00:30:07.00\00:30:10.19
Every single thing
comes down to this.
00:30:10.22\00:30:11.99
My husband decided, I told you
00:30:12.02\00:30:13.67
he was not a
Christian for a long time.
00:30:13.70\00:30:18.54
You know, I mean a long time.
00:30:18.57\00:30:19.94
Does anybody has, anybody
been married to a non-Christian?
00:30:19.97\00:30:22.84
You pray for like
years and years and years,
00:30:22.87\00:30:24.45
it's just tough, you
know, but he wasn't a Christian
00:30:24.48\00:30:27.22
for a long time
and just now recently
00:30:27.25\00:30:30.47
looking at all that
and stepping into all that.
00:30:30.50\00:30:32.98
Sometimes it's really
great, sometimes it's not,
00:30:33.01\00:30:35.15
I mean, all that kind of stuff.
00:30:35.18\00:30:36.64
But he starts
looking at his stuff
00:30:36.67\00:30:38.46
and he's
healing and we find out.
00:30:38.49\00:30:43.39
I mean, how do I--if he was
here he would tell you this.
00:30:43.42\00:30:45.45
But it's kind of
intense but we found out
00:30:45.48\00:30:50.89
that his father
had a sexual addiction.
00:30:50.92\00:30:54.55
His grandfather
had a sexual addiction
00:30:54.58\00:30:57.24
and my husband stepped into
a sexual addiction very early.
00:30:57.27\00:31:00.37
You know, when I
met him I thought
00:31:00.40\00:31:01.77
you know he's
perfect, he's a boy scout.
00:31:01.80\00:31:03.75
He's mom is a violinists.
00:31:03.78\00:31:05.15
His dad is an ambassador for
the United States to Bangladesh.
00:31:05.18\00:31:09.57
I mean, they have this
incredible life or whatever,
00:31:09.60\00:31:11.65
but all of a sudden his
stuff started coming out.
00:31:11.68\00:31:14.16
And his stuff
started coming out in ways
00:31:14.19\00:31:16.48
that I have been damaged, right?
00:31:16.51\00:31:18.80
And so as we're dealing
with that he's trying to share
00:31:18.83\00:31:22.06
with me some of
that kind of stuff.
00:31:22.09\00:31:23.90
His main issues are
pride and arrogance.
00:31:23.93\00:31:26.47
Raise your hand if
you understand that one.
00:31:26.50\00:31:28.73
You know, what's
really interesting to me
00:31:28.76\00:31:30.65
is that pride and
arrogance looks intense.
00:31:30.68\00:31:34.00
I like that service like
raise your hand, come on.
00:31:34.03\00:31:37.15
So pride and
arrogance is really intense
00:31:37.18\00:31:39.46
but it feels so right
to the person that has it.
00:31:39.49\00:31:43.50
"I just have a
high standard." Anybody?
00:31:43.53\00:31:47.96
You know its just I have
high standard or whatever
00:31:47.99\00:31:49.79
I just, you know,
I worked for what I--
00:31:49.82\00:31:51.92
you know its whatever
until he started realizing that
00:31:51.95\00:31:54.43
his was pride and arrogance.
00:31:54.46\00:31:55.88
He's so arrogant.
00:31:55.91\00:31:57.70
It's so funny that he has to
have control over everything,
00:31:57.73\00:32:01.46
because he's only one
that will do it right.
00:32:01.49\00:32:04.02
And so we were in
counseling one time.
00:32:04.05\00:32:06.37
I had love--I can't even
look at you guys it's so funny.
00:32:06.40\00:32:09.13
Everybody's looking at their
00:32:09.16\00:32:10.53
husband and
looking at their wife.
00:32:10.56\00:32:11.93
But anyhow so, we're
in counseling one time
00:32:11.96\00:32:14.35
and the counselor asked
me or the pastor asked me.
00:32:14.38\00:32:17.92
So, what do you mean that,
00:32:17.95\00:32:20.07
you don't think
He really hears you?
00:32:20.10\00:32:22.55
And I am thinking,
every year for my birthday
00:32:22.58\00:32:26.77
we go to the
state fair, every year.
00:32:26.80\00:32:30.16
He is an incredible musician,
00:32:30.19\00:32:31.56
so he get to gig
at the state fair.
00:32:31.59\00:32:33.57
So he even gets paid to
go which pays for a day.
00:32:33.60\00:32:36.89
You know, and some
people say that's brilliant.
00:32:36.92\00:32:39.56
The only problem in this whole
thing is I hate the state fair.
00:32:39.59\00:32:44.08
And it's my birthday, right?
00:32:44.11\00:32:45.97
And I tell him every
year, I hate the state fair.
00:32:46.00\00:32:49.26
There's nothing about it I like.
00:32:49.29\00:32:50.97
I get motion sick,
when they put me on a ride.
00:32:51.00\00:32:54.15
You know, I am
not allowed to spend--
00:32:54.18\00:32:57.26
so all of those kind of
booze where you get to buy
00:32:57.29\00:32:59.49
everything on
the planet by the mix
00:32:59.52\00:33:01.12
and you know
whatever else is for sale.
00:33:01.15\00:33:03.39
I can't go into because you
know we don't' have the money.
00:33:03.42\00:33:06.59
And if I go in I'm
gonna buy something
00:33:06.62\00:33:08.21
then we have to
have that discussion.
00:33:08.24\00:33:09.87
So I mean nothing
about that is pleasant.
00:33:09.90\00:33:11.97
And you know, I can't go see
00:33:12.00\00:33:14.46
the arts and crafts
stuff but he hates that.
00:33:14.49\00:33:17.16
So there is
nothing that ever works.
00:33:17.19\00:33:18.68
But I've been going for
11 years straight, straight.
00:33:18.71\00:33:23.58
And I am thinking, you know,
00:33:23.61\00:33:25.58
so that makes me feel
like he doesn't hear me.
00:33:25.61\00:33:28.66
And all of a sudden
because Brad is now in,
00:33:28.69\00:33:31.30
doing his recovering.
He looks at me with tears.
00:33:31.33\00:33:36.17
"You don't like the state fair?"
00:33:36.20\00:33:39.85
Really you just got that?
and you know its just like
00:33:39.88\00:33:42.26
so funny but it was-- so
we're having to deal with
00:33:42.29\00:33:44.19
forgiveness and
all that kind of stuff.
00:33:44.22\00:33:46.19
He molested
somebody when he was young,
00:33:46.22\00:33:51.11
when he was a child too.
00:33:51.14\00:33:54.05
And he had to
share that with me.
00:33:54.08\00:33:57.52
The moment he shared that
with me, I just was stunned.
00:33:57.55\00:34:02.81
Because I thought, man,
00:34:02.84\00:34:05.35
you know, how do
I respond to this.
00:34:05.38\00:34:10.47
You know, he has told
me about sexual addictions,
00:34:10.50\00:34:12.97
told me about, I mean,
00:34:13.00\00:34:14.37
he was just wild
as far as girlfriends
00:34:14.40\00:34:17.25
and women and college
and all that kind of stuff.
00:34:17.28\00:34:19.78
You know, during that
time, when he was growing up
00:34:19.81\00:34:21.71
there was a lot of
people just had relationships,
00:34:21.74\00:34:24.61
he didn't think about that.
00:34:24.64\00:34:26.01
He is not Christian, so I mean,
00:34:26.04\00:34:27.41
he's sharing
with me all the stuff.
00:34:27.44\00:34:28.81
I'm forgiving
him, forgiving him.
00:34:28.84\00:34:30.21
But that was the
hardest one because
00:34:30.24\00:34:31.61
I think that's my damage.
00:34:31.64\00:34:33.16
And I remember God
just saying, you know,
00:34:33.19\00:34:36.70
"I want you to
remember every single thing
00:34:36.73\00:34:39.33
I forgave you for,
every single thing.
00:34:39.36\00:34:42.81
And right now the
next thing you say,
00:34:42.84\00:34:45.10
is gonna be one of the most
00:34:45.13\00:34:46.50
important
things you'll ever say."
00:34:46.53\00:34:49.63
And I just almost
couldn't say it. I forgive you.
00:34:49.66\00:34:54.86
And I watched
him just kind of be
00:34:54.89\00:34:57.75
able to for the
first time take that shame.
00:34:57.78\00:35:00.55
And I don't know what
people carry in their life,
00:35:00.58\00:35:02.39
but sometimes we carry
stuff that we don't want
00:35:02.42\00:35:03.96
anyone to know about
us, about what we've done
00:35:03.99\00:35:06.17
or how we've acted out.
00:35:06.20\00:35:07.57
But he was allowed
to because he said it
00:35:07.60\00:35:09.45
out loud to me and I was as
his wife said I forgive you.
00:35:09.48\00:35:14.84
He knew God had forgiven him.
00:35:14.87\00:35:16.54
Now his wife is forgiving
him and now he has permission
00:35:16.57\00:35:18.85
to walk into
recovery in a different way.
00:35:18.88\00:35:20.90
But I could have
changed that whole thing.
00:35:20.93\00:35:24.00
I can't stay with you.
00:35:24.03\00:35:26.03
You are everything I
have run from my whole life.
00:35:26.06\00:35:28.90
Do you hear what I am saying?
And it was just a huge thing.
00:35:28.93\00:35:31.43
So we gonna look at not
only God's forgiveness of us,
00:35:31.46\00:35:35.58
but our forgiveness
of the people around us.
00:35:35.61\00:35:37.77
If we are truly asking
them to be real with us,
00:35:37.80\00:35:40.55
man, sometimes
that's the hardest thing.
00:35:40.58\00:35:43.60
You know, have you told Kerrie
00:35:43.63\00:35:45.10
everything that
you've done, Jamie.
00:35:45.13\00:35:47.82
Don't lie to me.
Oh, she knows all right.
00:35:47.85\00:35:51.50
But you know it's really
tough and then for Kerrie
00:35:51.53\00:35:54.09
to turn around to say to
Jamie and I forgive you, right?
00:35:54.12\00:35:58.92
So we're gonna look
at some of the stuff
00:35:58.95\00:36:00.58
and we've to look at it
in a way that this is oh,
00:36:00.61\00:36:03.82
this is a friend of
mine did this picture.
00:36:03.85\00:36:05.61
I just put it in
because I like it.
00:36:05.64\00:36:08.26
So its, you know, what happened
to your hand because of what
00:36:08.29\00:36:11.71
Christ did we have
permission to heal.
00:36:11.74\00:36:16.22
And I want you
to think about that.
00:36:16.25\00:36:17.94
And so all of us
should really look at
00:36:17.97\00:36:20.24
what happened to His hand?
00:36:20.27\00:36:21.64
What did his death
mean? What did He give to us?
00:36:21.67\00:36:24.15
And sometimes we--
because we memorized
00:36:24.18\00:36:27.01
verses so long
and we kind of done
00:36:27.04\00:36:29.28
the whole church things so long
00:36:29.31\00:36:30.74
that we just forget how
incredible all of this is.
00:36:30.77\00:36:36.13
One of the clearest ways
and I am just gonna read this.
00:36:36.16\00:36:38.33
One of the clearest ways
to understand forgiveness
00:36:38.36\00:36:40.37
is to study how God
chooses to forgive us.
00:36:40.40\00:36:42.98
Our sins stand in the way
of our relationship with God.
00:36:43.01\00:36:46.46
Without his forgiveness,
00:36:46.49\00:36:47.86
who would be
eternally condemned.
00:36:47.89\00:36:49.26
And I have to
look at that is that,
00:36:49.29\00:36:51.18
God has totally completely
looked at every single thing
00:36:51.21\00:36:56.59
that I put on the table
and I wish I could tell you
00:36:56.62\00:36:58.97
some of those things because
they're shameful intense.
00:36:59.00\00:37:03.09
There was no way
that God should forgive
00:37:03.12\00:37:05.00
and when I stumble over
00:37:05.03\00:37:06.57
some of the
character stuff even today.
00:37:06.60\00:37:09.23
Man, I can turn around and say,
00:37:09.26\00:37:10.63
man, I didn't even
know it was still happening.
00:37:10.66\00:37:12.73
I didn't know I still
had some of that stuff.
00:37:12.76\00:37:14.92
And I am sorry and it's
not obvious stuff anymore.
00:37:14.95\00:37:17.88
You know, it's
like I chose to be
00:37:17.91\00:37:19.28
a little
manipulated divorcee, a little.
00:37:19.31\00:37:23.03
That's a lie, a lot manipulated.
00:37:23.06\00:37:24.88
But you know what I
mean that but I have even
00:37:24.91\00:37:26.41
stumbling around, God will show
00:37:26.44\00:37:28.14
how we're gonna heal from that.
00:37:28.17\00:37:30.06
How we're gonna look at
that? How we gonna do that?
00:37:30.09\00:37:31.89
In every single thing
He's so incredible about.
00:37:31.92\00:37:35.19
God virtually shares
his desire to forgive us.
00:37:35.22\00:37:38.27
I will forgive there
iniquity and I remember
00:37:38.30\00:37:40.53
and no more will I
pardon them abundantly.
00:37:40.56\00:37:42.44
Now I love this next one.
00:37:42.47\00:37:43.84
God chooses to focus on His
desire to forgive us, right?
00:37:43.87\00:37:48.09
And that's His focus,
His desire to forgive us
00:37:48.12\00:37:50.48
rather than our failures.
00:37:50.51\00:37:52.71
Does anybody hear that?
00:37:52.74\00:37:54.62
He looks at his
heart not our sin.
00:37:54.65\00:37:59.81
He forgives us for His
sake. And I am like shut up.
00:37:59.84\00:38:04.84
That is just the
most amazing thing because
00:38:04.87\00:38:06.65
I think most of us feel
like He looks at our sins,
00:38:06.68\00:38:09.77
our individual stuff,
our junk, or whatever.
00:38:09.80\00:38:12.28
I used to think that He was
in heaven just ticking boxes,
00:38:12.31\00:38:16.47
every time I messed up.
00:38:16.50\00:38:18.35
And I remember one
time, He gives me this vision,
00:38:18.38\00:38:20.77
it was the most
delightful vision,
00:38:20.80\00:38:22.67
not a vision because you know
00:38:22.70\00:38:24.75
people get
crazy about that word.
00:38:24.78\00:38:26.95
He gives me an impression
and that they don't have enough
00:38:26.98\00:38:31.33
pencils in heaven to do that.
00:38:31.36\00:38:34.88
That if they were
ticking every box every time
00:38:34.91\00:38:38.00
we messed up you know, it
would take the entire staff.
00:38:38.03\00:38:42.64
You know, what He
ticks, what He checks,
00:38:42.67\00:38:47.63
is every time you
feel the heart of God.
00:38:47.66\00:38:50.22
Every time you actually
get it all of heaven wakes up.
00:38:50.25\00:38:53.95
I think she got it.
00:38:53.98\00:38:56.32
You know, I think she relaxed
in a fact that I love her.
00:38:56.35\00:38:59.93
I think she has peace right now.
00:38:59.96\00:39:02.01
So it's not looking
for our wrong behavior,
00:39:02.04\00:39:03.94
its looking for every
single time we connect with God.
00:39:03.97\00:39:06.54
Every time that
we can actually look
00:39:06.57\00:39:08.22
at this truth
and know its truth.
00:39:08.25\00:39:10.58
Do you hear what I'm saying?
It's not every time we mess up.
00:39:10.61\00:39:13.77
He knows we're gonna mess up.
00:39:13.80\00:39:16.71
Not that He wants
us to but He knows.
00:39:16.74\00:39:18.31
God chooses to focus on
His desire to forgive us
00:39:18.34\00:39:20.92
rather than to
focus on our failures.
00:39:20.95\00:39:22.81
I even I, the one who
wipes out your transgressions
00:39:22.84\00:39:26.77
for my own sake will
not remember your sin.
00:39:26.80\00:39:30.54
And I'm like how cool is that?
00:39:30.57\00:39:32.30
As far as the
east is from the west,
00:39:32.33\00:39:33.85
how we move our transgressions.
00:39:33.88\00:39:35.32
And I'm just
thinking how cool is that?
00:39:35.35\00:39:38.45
There's nothing
better about that.
00:39:38.48\00:39:41.72
So its right here,
God chooses to love us
00:39:41.75\00:39:43.70
in spite of our failures
and He provides redemption
00:39:43.73\00:39:46.90
from our sins
through His son When we have
00:39:46.93\00:39:49.55
a bitter
attitude towards another
00:39:49.58\00:39:50.95
we need to
remember what we have done
00:39:50.98\00:39:52.84
and how we have been forgiven.
00:39:52.87\00:39:54.51
And what's really gonna
be interesting about that.
00:39:54.54\00:39:56.82
I should just probably read it
00:39:56.85\00:39:58.22
because people
are trying to read it.
00:39:58.25\00:39:59.67
We need to remember our sins
we have committed and our debt
00:39:59.70\00:40:02.24
we owe to Christ
for paying for our sins
00:40:02.27\00:40:04.89
through the death on the cross.
00:40:04.92\00:40:07.26
The reason we
have to remember that
00:40:07.29\00:40:09.81
and you gonna
hate this next part,
00:40:09.84\00:40:11.33
especially if you have
a problem with forgiving,
00:40:11.36\00:40:13.93
because some of us have been
hurt desperately, desperately.
00:40:13.96\00:40:19.88
I wrote, well, the
ministry wrote a 14 week program
00:40:19.91\00:40:24.45
for the churches on recovery.
00:40:24.48\00:40:26.28
You know recovery groups
00:40:26.31\00:40:27.68
so that people can
teach some of the staff.
00:40:27.71\00:40:30.01
And one of the
weeks I have a friend on,
00:40:30.04\00:40:32.95
that her name is Joy.
00:40:32.98\00:40:34.61
And somebody a 14 year old kid
came in and shot all her kids.
00:40:34.64\00:40:42.07
Four kids, you know, she
was bowing with her husband
00:40:42.10\00:40:46.08
and the reason she was
bowing with her husband
00:40:46.11\00:40:48.10
they needed a day off
because their oldest girl
00:40:48.13\00:40:50.57
was dying of
cancer and they have been
00:40:50.60\00:40:52.18
in the hospital
with her for months.
00:40:52.21\00:40:54.71
And they just decided to
take a day off go bowing.
00:40:54.74\00:40:59.46
The 12 year old was
watching all other kids.
00:40:59.49\00:41:01.20
The youngest was
probably 12 months old
00:41:01.23\00:41:03.95
and this kid walked in and
then shot them in the face.
00:41:03.98\00:41:06.62
They came home from bowing
00:41:06.65\00:41:08.66
the police was
surrounding their house.
00:41:08.69\00:41:12.30
And they were trying to
deal with what just happened.
00:41:12.33\00:41:15.47
The police
thought that they did it.
00:41:15.50\00:41:17.33
So they were taken in
immediately to be interrogated,
00:41:17.36\00:41:20.48
they never got to
see their children.
00:41:20.51\00:41:21.96
They never got to
go back in there house
00:41:21.99\00:41:23.50
and they never
got to see good bye.
00:41:23.53\00:41:25.37
And I don't know
if she was a mother.
00:41:25.40\00:41:27.42
But Joy needed to just make sure
00:41:27.45\00:41:31.07
she said that my
kids were all right.
00:41:31.10\00:41:32.95
Taking care of during this time
00:41:32.98\00:41:34.86
and they just
didn't let her do that.
00:41:34.89\00:41:36.76
It took her 11
years to understand
00:41:36.79\00:41:39.93
what God was asking
us to do in forgiveness.
00:41:39.96\00:41:43.97
I want you to forgive.
00:41:44.00\00:41:48.42
Are you kidding
me? Are you kidding me?
00:41:48.45\00:41:51.58
How could you
forgive someone like that?
00:41:51.61\00:41:54.40
And the only way we can forgive
00:41:54.43\00:41:56.04
and some of
those really thoughtful
00:41:56.07\00:41:58.35
deep places is to understand
00:41:58.38\00:42:00.33
the extent of
what happened here.
00:42:00.36\00:42:03.63
You know God
forgives us for his own sake.
00:42:03.66\00:42:06.69
He is asking you
to honestly forgive
00:42:06.72\00:42:09.66
somebody for that same motive.
00:42:09.69\00:42:12.73
Not because they deserve it
not 'cause we gonna reconcile,
00:42:12.76\00:42:15.54
some of those things
are not even the issue.
00:42:15.57\00:42:17.58
And its really be simple,
00:42:17.61\00:42:18.98
that would be simple to
understand this concept of,
00:42:19.01\00:42:21.09
you know, I'm
staying at your house.
00:42:21.12\00:42:23.65
Incredible because
I thank you for that,
00:42:23.68\00:42:25.63
but let's say that
you let me use your car,
00:42:25.66\00:42:28.63
to run to the
store and I total it.
00:42:28.66\00:42:31.80
I get in an
accident, it's wrecked.
00:42:31.83\00:42:34.67
You decide asked me
if I have insurance.
00:42:34.70\00:42:38.91
And I say,
well, yeah I think so,
00:42:38.94\00:42:41.65
here is my insurance card.
00:42:41.68\00:42:43.74
You find out when you try
to get the insurance to pay off
00:42:43.77\00:42:46.35
that my name isn't even Cheri.
00:42:46.38\00:42:49.51
I don't have insurance,
I don't have anything.
00:42:49.54\00:42:51.93
I really don't have a ministry,
00:42:51.96\00:42:53.46
you know, and so you
start taking me to court
00:42:53.49\00:42:55.59
and fighting that and
trying to get your car paid off
00:42:55.62\00:42:57.63
and all that kind of stuff.
00:42:57.66\00:42:59.03
And after about five years,
00:42:59.06\00:43:00.43
have been lost in
this stress and this drama.
00:43:00.46\00:43:03.59
What would be the
smartest thing for her to do?
00:43:03.62\00:43:08.00
Fix her car, get
on with her life.
00:43:08.03\00:43:10.71
And in a sense she pays my debt,
00:43:10.74\00:43:13.37
fixes the car and to
get on with her life.
00:43:13.40\00:43:16.10
And in a
forgiveness sense sometimes
00:43:16.13\00:43:17.99
it is that there is no
way you're going to get
00:43:18.02\00:43:22.23
what you need from
the other person and you--
00:43:22.26\00:43:25.69
because what, Christ said to us,
00:43:25.72\00:43:27.41
is you just give it to him.
00:43:27.44\00:43:29.84
Surrender to him
but you paid their debt.
00:43:29.87\00:43:33.05
I am going to pay
your debt for you.
00:43:33.08\00:43:36.77
I am gonna fix a car for
you, I'm gonna let it go.
00:43:36.80\00:43:40.24
I had an addict ripped me off
for about $1000 and God said,
00:43:40.27\00:43:43.91
forgive them, tell them
you forgive them and let it go.
00:43:43.94\00:43:47.65
Everybody yelled at me.
00:43:47.68\00:43:49.05
But man that gave me such peace,
00:43:49.08\00:43:50.57
I didn't have to
deal with that anymore
00:43:50.60\00:43:52.65
and forgiveness on any level
00:43:52.68\00:43:54.77
is going to give
that kind of stuff
00:43:54.80\00:43:56.34
but some of the
levels are pretty tough.
00:43:56.37\00:43:58.64
Forgiveness one of the
things on this right here,
00:43:58.67\00:44:00.55
on this chart, is that God,
00:44:00.58\00:44:03.04
the death of Christ
sets us free, right?
00:44:03.07\00:44:05.59
Totally sets us free
and if I don't accept that
00:44:05.62\00:44:11.32
I keep my own sin
and my own addictions.
00:44:11.35\00:44:14.38
If I accept the blood of Christ
I can surrender that to Him.
00:44:14.41\00:44:16.78
I can say, okay, I get it.
00:44:16.81\00:44:18.67
You know, what
you did set me free
00:44:18.70\00:44:20.95
and even though I may not know
what to do with the next step.
00:44:20.98\00:44:23.22
I am gonna-- I have
faith in that, right.
00:44:23.25\00:44:25.93
That if I don't, I
accept my own stuff.
00:44:25.96\00:44:28.61
I have the anger, the bitterness
00:44:28.64\00:44:30.01
and all that kind
of stuff stays with me.
00:44:30.04\00:44:31.69
Then next chart I
think is incredible
00:44:31.72\00:44:33.81
because your
forgiveness of another person
00:44:33.84\00:44:36.74
assuming the
personal responsibility
00:44:36.77\00:44:38.40
of the other
person of taking that on.
00:44:38.43\00:44:41.20
Okay, I get it and I'll
just take that on myself.
00:44:41.23\00:44:44.79
Is that you're dying to
self and justice that you have.
00:44:44.82\00:44:48.81
My father molested me
since I was three months old.
00:44:48.84\00:44:52.52
When God said that
forgive him. I was juts like.
00:44:52.55\00:44:54.83
Oh, stop there's no
way. There's no way.
00:44:54.86\00:44:57.72
I found baby shoe of my dad.
00:44:57.75\00:45:01.60
And God said forgive
him as a him as a baby.
00:45:01.63\00:45:04.53
And he really does in
a sense owe me a debt.
00:45:04.56\00:45:09.15
Who would I have been if I had
a father that loved me, right?
00:45:09.18\00:45:12.41
Who would I have been if I could
run in a room as a little girl
00:45:12.44\00:45:15.86
and troll around and
have my dad say you're lovely.
00:45:15.89\00:45:19.33
And throw me up in the
air, kiss me on the face
00:45:19.36\00:45:22.14
and whatever and have
that just be incredible.
00:45:22.17\00:45:25.21
The debt he owes me is
that I will never know that.
00:45:25.24\00:45:28.14
I will never have that.
So it's not a small debt.
00:45:28.17\00:45:31.33
But the only way I am
gonna be able to forgive him
00:45:31.36\00:45:34.12
is to pay that debt myself.
00:45:34.15\00:45:36.09
Okay, I will take responsibility
00:45:36.12\00:45:37.76
for that and I am gonna show you
00:45:37.79\00:45:40.59
how I think God
taught me that concept
00:45:40.62\00:45:43.79
but it's just like I have
to die to myself to do that.
00:45:43.82\00:45:46.36
And I have to have faith in what
God says to be able to do that.
00:45:46.39\00:45:49.90
And if I don't try
to myself I am left with
00:45:49.93\00:45:52.77
and this is
important resentment anger,
00:45:52.80\00:45:55.18
bitterness and un-forgiveness.
00:45:55.21\00:45:57.25
Do you hear what I am
saying? I am left with that.
00:45:57.28\00:45:59.52
My whole life that will come out
in all kinds of different ways
00:45:59.55\00:46:03.04
and nobody else
will be able to read it.
00:46:03.07\00:46:04.60
Like Kerrie I can sit in
the church and look great.
00:46:04.63\00:46:07.15
But I am gonna have
that stuff to deal with.
00:46:07.18\00:46:10.11
God is saying you don't
have to have that stuff.
00:46:10.14\00:46:12.12
You die to yourself
forgive them and you're free.
00:46:12.15\00:46:14.41
The concept--I'll just go
forbearance in a brief way
00:46:18.26\00:46:23.21
is when you forbear for someone,
00:46:23.24\00:46:25.53
when God forebears for us
00:46:25.56\00:46:27.22
as he overlooks
our ignorance at times.
00:46:27.25\00:46:30.85
Where actually now we're
doing all kinds of stuff,
00:46:30.88\00:46:32.66
I could use Jamie as an example.
00:46:32.69\00:46:36.10
We're acting I was
doing all kinds of stuff
00:46:36.13\00:46:37.80
and God really for a
while overlooks our ignorance
00:46:37.83\00:46:41.07
and our sin and
all that kind of stuff.
00:46:41.10\00:46:42.59
And it says, in Roman 4:2,
00:46:42.62\00:46:44.42
"Don't despise
God for doing that."
00:46:44.45\00:46:46.64
'Cause that leads to repentance.
00:46:46.67\00:46:48.32
You know, he
has reason for that.
00:46:48.35\00:46:50.57
And its to draw people back
00:46:50.60\00:46:51.97
and its just like God is
so delightful in all that.
00:46:52.00\00:46:54.97
But anyhow so I am gonna look
at the process of forgiveness
00:46:55.00\00:46:57.69
and I am gonna use this chart
00:46:57.72\00:46:59.09
because this
chart made sense to me
00:46:59.12\00:47:00.49
when somebody used that for me.
00:47:00.52\00:47:01.89
I want this block of
this block to represent
00:47:01.92\00:47:06.20
everything that anything
that you have dealt with.
00:47:06.23\00:47:09.16
You know and I am
gonna put some of my stuff,
00:47:09.19\00:47:11.86
abandonment, physical abuse,
00:47:11.89\00:47:13.71
sexual abuse, neglect,
alcoholism, drug addiction.
00:47:13.74\00:47:17.37
You could put
divorce, you can put adultery,
00:47:17.40\00:47:19.61
you could put whatever.
00:47:19.64\00:47:21.38
So that block represents that.
00:47:21.41\00:47:23.60
And lets say right
now it's gonna represent
00:47:23.63\00:47:25.87
the molestation from my father.
00:47:25.90\00:47:29.97
So it represents
molestation from my father.
00:47:30.00\00:47:32.36
I am as a Christian
going to start to say okay,
00:47:32.39\00:47:36.40
I forgive my father
for molesting me, right?
00:47:36.43\00:47:39.96
Okay, should be done.
00:47:39.99\00:47:42.63
You know, I am not
gonna reconcile with him
00:47:42.66\00:47:44.11
because like I
said and I told you
00:47:44.14\00:47:45.51
my dad died in a
crack house molesting kids.
00:47:45.54\00:47:47.43
He never did heal.
00:47:47.46\00:47:48.83
So its not reconciliation
is just I am gonna forgive.
00:47:48.86\00:47:51.60
And I go on and I am thinking
okay my life should change.
00:47:51.63\00:47:55.58
I am still
picking bad relationships,
00:47:55.61\00:47:57.23
I am still depressed,
00:47:57.26\00:47:58.63
I'm still having all
that junk. What happened
00:47:58.66\00:48:01.04
because I don't feel
healed but I forgave him.
00:48:01.07\00:48:03.79
So may be I just
didn't forgive him properly.
00:48:03.82\00:48:06.41
May be I didn't
get on my knees, okay.
00:48:06.44\00:48:09.19
I forgive my
dad for molesting me
00:48:09.22\00:48:12.94
and God I mean it and I
cry and all that kind stuff,
00:48:12.97\00:48:16.69
and I am-I get it
and it's like okay.
00:48:16.72\00:48:19.16
And so now few
months or days go by
00:48:19.19\00:48:25.75
and I am still
acting out on the same way.
00:48:25.78\00:48:29.70
May be I should
have studied first.
00:48:29.73\00:48:32.15
Okay, so now I
study about forgiveness
00:48:32.18\00:48:36.94
and then you know and I do
it all kind of different ways.
00:48:36.97\00:48:43.27
But I keep going to this
event, this thing that happened.
00:48:43.30\00:48:48.37
But I am gonna tell you
00:48:48.40\00:48:49.77
what's really
interesting about this thing
00:48:49.80\00:48:51.22
that happened is
that Satan set up
00:48:51.25\00:48:53.51
schemes in my
life with that molest.
00:48:53.54\00:48:57.21
You know when the Bible says,
00:48:57.24\00:48:58.61
fight against the
schemes of the devil.
00:48:58.64\00:49:01.00
It doesn't say
fight against the devil.
00:49:01.03\00:49:02.60
So what are the schemes?
00:49:02.63\00:49:05.09
Does you know and
I am gonna tell you
00:49:05.12\00:49:06.59
what I think and I
could be totally wrong,
00:49:06.62\00:49:08.65
this is just what I think?
00:49:08.68\00:49:10.11
Is that the event happens
the molestations happens,
00:49:10.14\00:49:13.06
the divorce
happens, the rape happens,
00:49:13.09\00:49:16.11
whatever and the next thing
it happens is like I feel angry.
00:49:16.14\00:49:20.37
I feel worthless, I feel bitter.
00:49:20.40\00:49:24.60
I'm picking bad relationships.
00:49:24.63\00:49:26.20
I'm trying drugs, I'm drinking,
00:49:26.23\00:49:27.91
I'm getting into
a sexual addiction
00:49:27.94\00:49:29.58
but every one of these
things now represents something
00:49:29.61\00:49:34.02
that happens
because of that event.
00:49:34.05\00:49:36.43
Do you hear what I'm saying,
00:49:36.46\00:49:37.83
does that makes sense?
00:49:37.86\00:49:39.23
And you can
list your own things.
00:49:39.26\00:49:40.65
You know I am insecure.
00:49:40.68\00:49:42.27
I feel like
nobody can be trusted.
00:49:42.30\00:49:44.27
I don't get into
relationships well
00:49:44.30\00:49:46.43
and I mean all of that
kind stuff sort of happening.
00:49:46.46\00:49:49.04
So I am gonna ask you
whose fault is that first one?
00:49:49.07\00:49:54.22
Don't be shy,
whose fault do you think?
00:49:58.85\00:50:01.49
The perpetuator my dad.
00:50:01.52\00:50:03.71
Clear, I mean you
can go all the way back
00:50:03.74\00:50:05.29
into a spiritual
sense and its same,
00:50:05.32\00:50:07.66
it's the devil but I am
not going back that far.
00:50:07.69\00:50:10.05
This is my dad's
fault. Whose fault is this?
00:50:10.08\00:50:14.40
Absolutely, absolutely my fault,
00:50:14.43\00:50:18.73
I that my dad is
not even alive anymore.
00:50:18.76\00:50:21.28
And yet I walk every day
with all of those believes.
00:50:21.31\00:50:25.17
I work everyday telling
myself all of that stuff.
00:50:25.20\00:50:28.62
And what God is
saying is forgiveness means
00:50:28.65\00:50:31.59
we're gonna look at this stuff,
00:50:31.62\00:50:33.41
but we also have
to look at all of this
00:50:33.44\00:50:36.20
and I am gonna ask you
to surrender all of that
00:50:36.23\00:50:39.92
because you become
your own perpetrator.
00:50:39.95\00:50:43.24
It's just the saddest reality
I think that I have ever had.
00:50:43.27\00:50:47.18
Is that that's the issue.
00:50:47.21\00:50:49.18
You know, I am not
being molested any more.
00:50:49.21\00:50:51.56
Do you hear what I am saying?
I am not in there anymore.
00:50:51.59\00:50:53.77
But man I believe this everyday.
00:50:53.80\00:50:57.37
So now what I
had like to look at
00:50:57.40\00:51:01.29
is I believe one of the
things that helped me a lot.
00:51:01.32\00:51:05.64
And nobody said--
everybody has formula,
00:51:05.67\00:51:07.69
I don't think
anything is a formula
00:51:07.72\00:51:09.09
this is just one
that worked for me.
00:51:09.12\00:51:10.93
And I just want to
show you so I can teach
00:51:10.96\00:51:13.36
this concept and
see what you think.
00:51:13.39\00:51:15.57
Is that
forgiveness is very costly.
00:51:15.60\00:51:17.68
It costs God everything.
00:51:17.71\00:51:20.09
But God is saying
the same thing to us.
00:51:20.12\00:51:22.16
Forgiveness is very costly,
it's gonna cost you everything.
00:51:22.19\00:51:26.20
When Joy decided
to forgive Billy,
00:51:26.23\00:51:30.56
she couldn't even believe it.
00:51:30.59\00:51:31.96
When I decided to forgive my
father I couldn't even do it.
00:51:31.99\00:51:34.49
I had to look at a baby shoe,
00:51:34.52\00:51:35.89
and say I forgive you
as a baby for everything
00:51:35.92\00:51:38.72
that will happen
to you in your life
00:51:38.75\00:51:40.13
that will get you to
molest your own children.
00:51:40.16\00:51:42.31
I couldn't even see him
as my father or a man yet.
00:51:42.34\00:51:44.57
I had to see
him as a little baby
00:51:44.60\00:51:46.02
and just say okay, God
I get it in that sense.
00:51:46.05\00:51:48.11
That's a best I can do right now
00:51:48.14\00:51:49.51
until God taught
me how to do that.
00:51:49.54\00:51:51.58
My mom I had to forgive
her as a three-year-old.
00:51:51.61\00:51:54.61
For whatever
happened in your life
00:51:54.64\00:51:56.04
that you could never love me.
00:51:56.07\00:51:57.49
It was easy when I saw
what happened with Danny
00:51:57.52\00:51:59.78
and her children to forgive
for even on a deeper level.
00:51:59.81\00:52:03.37
But God says
forgiveness is costly,
00:52:03.40\00:52:05.69
it will cost you everything,
it costs God everything,
00:52:05.72\00:52:08.52
and we do it in a
very superficial way.
00:52:08.55\00:52:10.55
We do it with an event.
00:52:10.58\00:52:13.53
It's bigger than this
event. You have schemes.
00:52:13.56\00:52:17.36
The Bible says, I am stronghold.
00:52:17.39\00:52:19.10
What's the
stronghold, anybody know?
00:52:19.13\00:52:22.23
You know stronghold
that's really interesting to me
00:52:22.26\00:52:24.82
is that that
what is so stronghold
00:52:24.85\00:52:27.69
is like a fortress whatever.
00:52:27.72\00:52:29.59
And I think the devil hides
behind some of the fortresses,
00:52:29.62\00:52:32.85
the strongholds in our mind.
00:52:32.88\00:52:34.65
And somebody said to me
00:52:34.68\00:52:36.05
what is a strong hold
built off do you think?
00:52:36.08\00:52:39.54
And I am
thinking, no I am not sure.
00:52:39.57\00:52:41.67
What if its build over every lie
00:52:41.70\00:52:43.54
every lie that
you ever believed.
00:52:43.57\00:52:45.52
What if it this stronghold
is build of this stuff?
00:52:45.55\00:52:49.44
So I am physically
building strongholds for lies
00:52:49.47\00:52:55.18
to the devil to hide behind to
kind of make porch offs of me.
00:52:55.21\00:52:59.86
And nobody can build it,
but me and I am building that.
00:52:59.89\00:53:01.97
And God is
saying give that to me,
00:53:02.00\00:53:03.51
give all of that to me.
00:53:03.54\00:53:04.91
Deal with the forgiveness.
00:53:04.94\00:53:06.31
So what I did was I listed
00:53:06.34\00:53:07.71
different people in my
life that have hurt me.
00:53:07.74\00:53:11.72
And just said a prayer.
You can say any kind of prayer.
00:53:11.75\00:53:15.77
Any position on your knees
00:53:15.80\00:53:18.98
standing up by
your bed whatever.
00:53:19.01\00:53:21.55
But the prayer I said was Lord,
00:53:21.58\00:53:23.18
I choose to forgive my
father for molesting me
00:53:23.21\00:53:26.08
causing me to feel unworthy,
00:53:26.11\00:53:28.12
unloved, angry,
hopeless, afraid,
00:53:28.15\00:53:33.54
you know afraid
to be in my own skin.
00:53:33.57\00:53:35.74
I am all of that kind of
stuff not able to connect
00:53:35.77\00:53:38.63
really where I could put
on mask after mask after mask
00:53:38.66\00:53:41.47
but nobody ever knows me
and all that kind of stuff.
00:53:41.50\00:53:43.56
I forgive my father for that.
00:53:43.59\00:53:45.53
And I am willing to
pay for the emotional pain
00:53:45.56\00:53:47.88
and consequences
that he has caused me.
00:53:47.91\00:53:50.71
And I ask you to break any
stronghold and scheme in my life
00:53:50.74\00:53:53.87
that the devil has set
up. Just take those down.
00:53:53.90\00:53:57.93
And do you see what I think
00:53:57.96\00:53:59.80
is really
important in this statement.
00:53:59.83\00:54:01.58
Stronghold scheme that
the devil set up in my life
00:54:01.61\00:54:04.15
because of my
anger and unforgiveness.
00:54:04.18\00:54:07.97
I am not going back to the
event not because of the molest.
00:54:08.00\00:54:12.70
Does anybody
hear what I am saying.
00:54:12.73\00:54:14.40
Because the injury is no
longer because of the molest.
00:54:14.43\00:54:16.85
The injury is there
because of the anger.
00:54:16.88\00:54:20.91
The injury is there
because for the unforgiveness.
00:54:20.94\00:54:23.71
And I ask you Lord
to take back the ground
00:54:23.74\00:54:25.84
that I gave to the
enemy who gave to the enemy,
00:54:25.87\00:54:30.67
I gave to the enemy
because of my bitterness.
00:54:30.70\00:54:33.90
Take back that ground.
00:54:33.93\00:54:35.30
The Bible says, I will restore
00:54:35.33\00:54:36.70
what the locust has destroyed
all of that kind of stuff.
00:54:36.73\00:54:38.80
And so I am really talking about
those scriptures in this prayer.
00:54:38.83\00:54:43.81
And I yield that
ground to your control.
00:54:43.84\00:54:47.15
So it's almost
like I had a covenant
00:54:47.18\00:54:48.93
over here with a devil himself
00:54:48.96\00:54:51.24
because of the
anger, because of the heart,
00:54:51.27\00:54:53.00
because of the
bitterness and unforgiveness,
00:54:53.03\00:54:54.87
because of the
molest, because of the injury,
00:54:54.90\00:54:57.25
and I have
covenanted with the enemy
00:54:57.28\00:54:59.37
and it's a legal covenant.
00:54:59.40\00:55:01.15
If God you know the
person that taught me
00:55:01.18\00:55:03.32
some of this
stuff as an attorney.
00:55:03.35\00:55:04.72
And he said, if God
chooses to step into an area
00:55:04.75\00:55:07.94
that you're
holding on to unforgiveness
00:55:07.97\00:55:09.94
and bitterness and anger.
00:55:09.97\00:55:11.42
It's called the criminal
interference on his part,
00:55:11.45\00:55:14.70
because I have
covenant with the devil.
00:55:14.73\00:55:16.91
I have given him permission.
00:55:16.94\00:55:18.31
The devil could
stand up and say you know
00:55:18.34\00:55:19.71
what she gave me this ground.
00:55:19.74\00:55:21.74
She gave me permission in
her anger in her fear whatever.
00:55:21.77\00:55:24.90
This is mine and its
almost like saying God,
00:55:24.93\00:55:28.26
I would like to, I
would like to break that.
00:55:28.29\00:55:32.69
You know I know that
you died to take all this.
00:55:32.72\00:55:38.23
Take it and what's
really interesting to me
00:55:38.26\00:55:41.67
as soon as I got
a visual of that--
00:55:41.70\00:55:44.29
that God wants to take it,
00:55:44.32\00:55:45.93
He wants us to
surrender all that.
00:55:45.96\00:55:47.92
He wants us to give
them all of that kind of junk
00:55:47.95\00:55:50.53
that we believed
because of our injuries.
00:55:50.56\00:55:52.67
All of that stuff that I lied
00:55:52.70\00:55:54.07
to myself on a
daily basis, He wants to--
00:55:54.10\00:55:57.06
He said I died for all
of that give me all of that.
00:55:57.09\00:55:59.16
And soon as you
actually do it in a honest way,
00:55:59.19\00:56:02.01
you're set free.
It's just ridiculous,
00:56:02.04\00:56:04.75
because what if
the Bible is true?
00:56:04.78\00:56:08.52
I just love that, so
what I wanna encourage you
00:56:08.55\00:56:11.38
in any kind of
recovery, in any kind of journey
00:56:11.41\00:56:14.05
that you're on, that when
Christ taught us how to do it.
00:56:14.08\00:56:17.70
One of things that He taught us
00:56:17.73\00:56:19.43
clearly is the
concept of forgiveness.
00:56:19.46\00:56:22.90
Don't ever think of
that in a superficial way.
00:56:22.93\00:56:25.24
Don't ever think
of that as something
00:56:25.27\00:56:27.58
that is just kind of
a memory verse to say
00:56:27.61\00:56:32.22
you've to look at
how He forgave us,
00:56:32.25\00:56:34.20
the extent that heaven went to
00:56:34.23\00:56:38.70