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Hi friends and welcome to
another edition of NEWSTART
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Now. I'm your host Ron
Giannoni. In our studio we have
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Cheryl McGinnis from Fairoaks,
California. I'd like you to take
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take a look when Cheryl first
arrived. The reason I came to
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the NEWSTART program, several
reasons: My father passed away
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in August after a lengthy battle
and my family divided and it
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became depressing for me. My
weight is a bit up. My doctor
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liked to see my weight come
down, just get healthier. I'm a
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food addict so I eat when I'm
stressed and depression brings
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that on even more. Before
I leave here some more peace
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in myself, learn more about
eating more properly, feeling
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as if my whole spirit,
body, everything has just been
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cleansed, just a new start
like the name. And to help my
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husband as well, both of us, to
be able to feel healthier. He's
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doing actually quite well
for what he's been through but
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I want to keep that
momentum going for both of us.
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Welcome back friends and in our
studio, Cheryl. Good to see you.
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Nice to see you, thanks.
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You've got that beautiful smile.
You had a good smile when you
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got here. Yeah,
not quite as joyful.
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Yeah, that's a big difference
though. Yes. I notice a change
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in you and I'd like for you to
share with our viewers what that
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looks like. You came here and
you were all stressed. You know
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there's a lot of things that can
create stress and you've had a
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couple weeks now to analyze.
Tell us about your stay here.
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Umm, whirlwind. It seems like
months instead of 2-1/2 weeks
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but just all the things that
we've done from food, eating
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differently. I started out by
fasting and then for three days
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changed to the plant-based diet.
Feeling just so much energy.
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Walking, I'm up to 5 miles a day
now and when I started half a
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mile was a little bit hard. Just
lots of prayer, lots of worship,
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reading Bible verses. But I
think the key was memorization.
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That just opened it up, the
healing. Really concentrating on
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certain verses and... A funny
thing, when I started memorizing
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a verse that was assigned to
me I started thinking about one
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that I'd worked on 25, 30 years
ago and it just kept coming back
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to me. Okay God, I think I'm
supposed to be thinking about
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this one right. So I did and I
memorized that again; there were
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a few gaps in my memory. But
it all came back and the healing
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just happened.
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So what I hear you
saying is, since you've been
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here you've been walking with
the Lord, literally, and he's
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put into your mind verses from
the Bible from 25, 30 years ago.
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Before the interview, may I say
what we talked about. We talked
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about how you told me, cause
I asked you, what's happening.
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You said that all of a sudden
the stress was melting away.
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Those were my words but you
agreed that that was perfect.
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They were melting away through
the word. That's so inspiring.
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Just thinking about really
concentrating on memorization
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that's all I wanted to think
about because I was determined
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to memorize what I was assigned
even though I had some feedback
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on another verse, but all of a
sudden everything just clicked.
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It was like everything just
melted away and joy just came
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in. Amen. Now what did you like
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about the program here?
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Gosh, everything. Learning to
cook vegan dishes. We had such a
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good time. There were some
fantastic dishes, making it seem
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easier to be able to do. The
people, the group I was with, we
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are family. Somebody said we're
like family. I said, no, no, we
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are family now. We're all
planning to keep in touch,
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encouraging each other, laughing
with each other, just enjoying
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each other. One of the gals
earlier I was talking to she was
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talking to her son. She said we
pray before we get on the bus,
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we pray after we go on a
trip, we pray before we start a
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lecture, we pray before we eat,
we pray after we eat. She says
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I think I'm all prayed up
and I said yeah, that works.
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You know that's what brought me
to the church. When I was here
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in '05 I asked my doctor, Dr.
Michael Orlich, and if you're
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walking watching doctor
I remember asking you this
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question. How come everywhere
I go people want to pray with
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me? And he said well we're
Christians. And I go, well I'm a
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Christian. And I was so far
removed from being a Christian
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I didn't know what a Christian
was. And so I wanted to know
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more and Doctor arranged for
Stephanie Yeager to come to my
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home and study with my wife and
I and three months later we were
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baptized. So that was a
very, very integral part of the
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program for me, was learning to
pray, learning about God, who he
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is and how he's watched over me
for so many years. Anyway, I'm
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so happy you shared that.
I'd like to know about... People
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often ask me, can I do this
at home. I'd like to come there
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but could I do it at home
and I go well what about the
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camaraderie of the guests
because they're very much an
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important part of this whole
program. Speak to us about that.
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Could you have
done this at home?
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No, no way. Not even one
tiny part. Not even the cooking
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having the instructions and
someone speak to you and you
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could substitute this for that
if you wanted to or if you were
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out of this you can use this,
to praying, to encouraging each
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other, to exercise more, to
what's going on in our head,
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you know, are we having a good
day and if not, hey, let's talk
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about it. I just can't imagine
doing this by myself. No, no.
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So what was your favorite part
of the program, if you had a
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favorite? They
called it Fresh Start. The
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pastor did a morning, I don't
want to say lecture, but I guess
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for lack of a better word, where
we all came together and we just
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spoke about biblical things; how
it fit into our lives. That just
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brought everything together.
I guess that's the glue to the
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whole program for me.
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What a great way
to start the day.
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Oh gosh yeah. Right after
breakfast we went right in
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there and he just had a
wonderful agenda. Quite often
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I'd go in and... how did you
know I needed to hear that today
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and yeah it was perfect and
many people said the same thing.
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What are you going
to do when you get home?
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Keep praying, keep eating
correctly, keep exercising, keep
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joyful. Are you
going to go to your
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refrigerator like I did
and throw out all these animal
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foods. That was
hard for me by the way.
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Yeah. I want to. I have the
desire to but I have a husband
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that I think I better make sure
that's okay. That's my goal.
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Yeah. Well good. Anything else
that you'd like to say? We're
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just about out of time.
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This is life changing. I started
out with depression, not a
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health issue but yeah I guess
maybe it is now that I say that.
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Folks with heart disease and
folks with kidney disease, just
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a plethora of things and I'm
just checking with them today.
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They just got their final tests
back and they've all improved.
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So that's extremely encouraging.
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I want to thank you for coming
and spending your time with us
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and I'll be talking to you soon.
Friends thank you but don't go
00:10:02.63\00:10:07.27
away. We'll be back after this.
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¤ ¤
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Welcome back friends and
help me to welcome Dr. Lukens.
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Very good to see you again.
You got a little bit of a...
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Well yeah I've got a little
bit of that. It's the month of
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November and people say
you don't save in November.
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Oh, okay. Well
then it's fine yeah.
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But I did shave a little bit up
in here and underneath. Cheryl
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has come here. And you know
there's a lot of people who are
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watching who are suffering from
stress or depression or both but
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stress seems to be a culprit out
there in society, at least in
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America. Speak
to us about stress.
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Well, in her situation, it's not
job stress but it was her job to
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take care of her father in his
terminal illness. And probably
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everybody in the audience
realizes who is it that dies
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first? It's the caretaker
frequently that goes first
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they're under stress and maybe
the other person is not aware of
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what's going on around them
so that's not the most stressful
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thing. But the thing is
that when it's day after day and
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after while it just kind of
grinds on you, you know. You
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don't get out like you used to.
You don't have the social that
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you used to have. You don't get
away from it and if you've been
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with somebody that's chronically
ill you know what I mean. It's
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tough, it's really tough.
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You know my wife Cindy took care
of her aunt for six months. She
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was away from home that long
and I noticed the stress was
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building so I would go down
whenever I could and take her
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out, and you know maybe go
to the park. We'd walk and such.
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Yeah, you have to.
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It's a tremendous amount of
stress, but I didn't know that
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caregivers often pass before
the person they are caring for.
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Well maybe it's in the medical
community that that's an adage.
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I didn't talk to Cheryl about
this and I didn't want to get
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into all of the personal stuff
like that, but so often there
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are a lot of dynamics in the
background. See you're not just
00:13:05.25\00:13:10.19
it's not like this is your job,
you're a caretaker for a sick
00:13:10.22\00:13:15.69
person, or you have a care home
or whatever. It's when there's a
00:13:15.72\00:13:20.50
lot of history behind it and
this is not her. I'm not talking
00:13:20.53\00:13:25.03
about her. Right. But that's
a dynamic. And there's another
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thing that's really, really
difficult. I was talking to
00:13:29.67\00:13:35.14
Lorna my wife and she's
seen this in the psychiatric
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practice; if there's conflict
especially if there's conflict
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between the person that's
dying and the person that's
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caregiving. Then a lot of stuff
comes back you see and there's
00:13:46.76\00:13:51.09
a lot of dynamic, there's
more dynamic there. Then if the
00:13:51.13\00:13:58.23
person is partially demented, or
demented this is another thing.
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This is in general terms,
I'm not speaking about any one
00:14:01.87\00:14:05.84
person. So if somebody sees
that in any of the parties, I'm
00:14:05.87\00:14:10.48
talking in general. The other
thing is that if that person is
00:14:10.51\00:14:15.08
demented sometimes, and
this happened in members of our
00:14:15.12\00:14:18.75
family, not my immediate family
but the mother might say to her
00:14:18.79\00:14:24.03
daughter you know as you were
growing up and then they'd say
00:14:24.06\00:14:29.03
something and then they'd say
well my mother thought that way
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about me all her life and
now she's telling me that she's
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about ready to go. You know, you
can build a lot of scenarios on
00:14:37.97\00:14:42.44
that. There's another thing.
There's the finances and what's
00:14:42.48\00:14:47.72
going to happen next and who's
going to get what? There's an
00:14:47.75\00:14:52.49
adage that people say where
there's a will and we always
00:14:52.52\00:14:57.19
finish that there's a way. Well
this one where there's a will
00:14:57.23\00:15:01.63
there's relatives. I
was going to bring that up.
00:15:01.66\00:15:06.03
Because isn't that a factor,
isn't that part of a stress
00:15:06.07\00:15:10.87
that we all deal with as family,
to please one another, to do the
00:15:10.91\00:15:17.08
right thing. Uncle this and
aunt mother and father. Anyway
00:15:17.11\00:15:21.48
how is Cheryl doing since
she arrived here? I know when we
00:15:21.52\00:15:25.82
first interviewed her she was
very stressed. How's she doing
00:15:25.85\00:15:30.16
now? Well she
said it's gone. She's
00:15:30.19\00:15:33.50
not back home yet. But the other
thing is that when the family is
00:15:33.53\00:15:40.20
going through this, and this
is a recent thing, so when the
00:15:40.24\00:15:42.90
family's going with this they've
got to reestablish family ties.
00:15:42.94\00:15:46.91
And it's horrible when
family ties are broken up over
00:15:46.94\00:15:51.68
something. I know my
folks passed and it can be very
00:15:51.71\00:15:56.38
stressful. Yeah.
Well, I've spoken to her
00:15:56.42\00:16:00.79
on several occasions over
the last few weeks and she seems
00:16:00.82\00:16:07.16
to be doing a lot better. You
know I did ask her what did you
00:16:07.20\00:16:13.84
attribute to your feeling and
looking so much more relaxed.
00:16:13.87\00:16:19.07
She said the love and the care
here at the NEWSTART Program.
00:16:19.14\00:16:24.58
The doctors pray with you,
the message therapists pray, the
00:16:24.61\00:16:30.69
cafeteria... Everybody's praying
everybody's massaging and
00:16:30.72\00:16:35.82
bringing about a feeling
that gives you hope. That's what
00:16:35.86\00:16:40.30
happened to me. I felt
like this was the right place.
00:16:40.33\00:16:43.47
I mean, isn't that what
Christ would want us to do?
00:16:43.53\00:16:46.60
I would certainly hope so and
I know so. And I think that was
00:16:46.63\00:16:52.07
one of the things I felt. I felt
the presence of the Lord here
00:16:52.11\00:16:57.51
when I came through the program
and that's why I ended up
00:16:57.55\00:17:02.18
getting baptized, three
months later by the way.
00:17:02.22\00:17:05.52
Yeah that was wonderful,
yeah. This may be the only time
00:17:05.55\00:17:12.96
somebody sees somebody that
is trying to reflect some of the
00:17:12.99\00:17:19.10
love of Jesus. The think is it's
so wonderful about is that he's
00:17:19.13\00:17:25.21
asked to be here every day.
We want the Holy Spirit here
00:17:25.24\00:17:29.28
because that's why we're here.
The other thing is that we know
00:17:29.31\00:17:34.12
that when people exercise
that that helps with stress, all
00:17:34.18\00:17:38.35
kinds of stress. Because you
have all these stress hormones
00:17:38.39\00:17:43.12
that are going up and then
exercise is what our adrenaline
00:17:43.16\00:17:46.70
is for, to make our muscles
move. If we're just sitting
00:17:46.73\00:17:50.23
there stewing. My wife's psych
magazines and newsletters about
00:17:50.27\00:17:56.40
10 years ago that was the
biggest stress. They said every
00:17:56.44\00:18:00.18
time you treat with an anti
depressant they have to have an
00:18:00.21\00:18:04.01
exercise program involved
otherwise you're not going to be
00:18:04.05\00:18:07.78
very successful. Wow. I
didn't know that. Thanks
00:18:07.82\00:18:11.85
for sharing. I know when I came
I was depressed and all of a
00:18:11.89\00:18:16.89
sudden that just lifted. I
thought it was the food but...
00:18:16.93\00:18:21.26
Well, it's everything.
Yeah, I think it's those eight
00:18:21.30\00:18:25.57
basic principles that we teach
here and I'm so glad to be a
00:18:25.60\00:18:30.41
part of supporting our
guests after they leave.
00:18:30.44\00:18:33.31
Yeah. And she said that too. She
said we had some kind of flesh
00:18:33.34\00:18:37.15
food for every meal and she
said I was just kind of yuck.
00:18:37.18\00:18:41.65
If anybody's seen supersize me
they know what that's all about.
00:18:41.68\00:18:45.85
But the thing is that her
husband would try to get her to
00:18:45.89\00:18:49.02
walk because he knew that
she needed to get out and get
00:18:49.06\00:18:52.13
exercise. And she said, Aa I
just didn't feel like it. So he
00:18:52.19\00:18:55.93
would fortunately get me out
there and she said I'd just feel
00:18:55.96\00:18:59.80
like my spirits were lifted and
I'd just feel better all the way
00:18:59.83\00:19:03.64
around. Well now
she's going to go home
00:19:03.67\00:19:05.54
and we want to see how the
husband is going to attempt to
00:19:05.57\00:19:09.84
keep up with her. Because she's
going a long stride and she's
00:19:09.91\00:19:14.15
been walking a lot
since she's been here.
00:19:14.18\00:19:16.35
She's going to
try to get him here.
00:19:16.38\00:19:18.65
Oh, good. I
look forward to that.
00:19:18.69\00:19:20.89
Yeah, he came and had
a meal here yesterday.
00:19:20.92\00:19:23.89
I thought I saw her sitting with
a gentleman I didn't recognize.
00:19:23.93\00:19:27.23
So that was her
husband? Yeah. Well good.
00:19:27.26\00:19:29.63
Yeah he has some
things we can help.
00:19:29.66\00:19:32.67
Well Doc you're going...
Maybe we can help him help.
00:19:32.73\00:19:38.04
You're going to Africa in
a couple of days. I want our
00:19:38.07\00:19:43.35
guests who are watching to
know that you have a ministry in
00:19:43.38\00:19:48.52
Africa. And folks, please pray
for Dr. Lukens. You've had this
00:19:48.58\00:19:53.69
ministry how many
years? Twenty-five?
00:19:53.72\00:19:56.49
No, I've been here 25 but
we were up in the highlands of
00:19:56.52\00:20:00.40
Lucidi for six, in
Africa all together 15 years.
00:20:00.43\00:20:04.03
Well, please keep
Dr. Lukens in prayer.
00:20:04.07\00:20:06.87
Please, that's the
only way anything is done.
00:20:06.90\00:20:10.04
Yeah. I want to think you
for joining us. It's always a
00:20:10.07\00:20:14.44
pleasure. You've got such a grip
00:20:14.48\00:20:18.18
Friends, thank you but don't go
away. We have a message for you.
00:20:18.21\00:20:20.68
¤ ¤
00:20:20.72\00:20:29.89
The next deadly psychological
sin is avoidance. I run into a
00:20:29.92\00:20:33.76
lot of avoidance in my practice.
People that come to counseling
00:20:33.80\00:20:37.47
and say I just can't get myself
to do the things that I know
00:20:37.50\00:20:41.17
I should be doing. They
typically use this little
00:20:41.20\00:20:45.27
one-liner. I'm just not
motivated. And I point out to
00:20:45.31\00:20:49.31
them that yes you are motivated.
You're motivated to sit on the
00:20:49.34\00:20:53.52
couch instead of get up and
exercise. You're motivated to
00:20:53.55\00:20:56.32
talk on the phone instead of
clean that room that you know
00:20:56.35\00:20:59.55
you need to clean. So you are
motivated. All behavior we say
00:20:59.59\00:21:02.76
operative. You're either trying
to avoid something or trying to
00:21:02.79\00:21:06.80
obtain something. Now the things
we avoid are classic. Pretty
00:21:06.83\00:21:11.50
typically things like healthy
eating, exercise, cleaning and
00:21:11.53\00:21:16.20
organizing our lives, doing
certain nonpreferred tasks.
00:21:16.24\00:21:23.51
And finally and this is probably
the highest on the list, people
00:21:23.55\00:21:27.45
tend to avoid having difficult
conversations. Having that
00:21:27.48\00:21:30.75
difficult conversation with
someone with whom you have a
00:21:30.79\00:21:34.12
little bit of a conflict
maybe that you need to iron out.
00:21:34.16\00:21:37.73
People just really don't
want to do that. They tend to
00:21:37.76\00:21:41.26
catastrophize that conversation
into something horrible and then
00:21:41.33\00:21:45.00
they avoid it. But the thing is
that following through on those
00:21:45.03\00:21:49.24
things, getting that exercise
making that healthy meal
00:21:49.27\00:21:51.61
cleaning that room and having
00:21:51.64\00:21:53.17
that conversation, these things
pay huge dividends. You feel so
00:21:53.21\00:21:58.28
good when you actually follow
through on them. So how to
00:21:58.31\00:22:02.58
get from point A to point
B, that's the question. The
00:22:02.62\00:22:07.22
replacement behavior for
avoidance is action. God has
00:22:07.26\00:22:11.49
given us this amazing
thing called a free will. Now I
00:22:11.53\00:22:15.70
realize that there are some
behavioral scientists that deny
00:22:15.73\00:22:19.23
that human being possess a
free will. They think we're just
00:22:19.27\00:22:22.74
genetically programmed
and biologically programmed or
00:22:22.77\00:22:25.34
influenced by our environment
and we're just like little cells
00:22:25.37\00:22:28.84
in a Petri dish. We just respond
to our environment in these
00:22:28.88\00:22:31.91
predictable and
00:22:31.95\00:22:33.28
precise ways. Yet we can
see exceptions to what we call
00:22:33.31\00:22:37.59
typical human behavior. And
those exceptions to me indicate
00:22:37.62\00:22:42.52
that we do have freedom.
Now using our free will can be a
00:22:42.56\00:22:47.40
difficult thing particularly in
a condition that we call learned
00:22:47.43\00:22:52.77
helplessness. There are
certain people that have great
00:22:52.80\00:22:55.04
difficulty being proactive in
their lives and taking control
00:22:55.10\00:22:59.34
so to speak. Those people
are often victims of trauma or
00:22:59.37\00:23:03.41
victims of abuse. That trait
of learned helplessness appears
00:23:03.45\00:23:07.42
often in a condition called
borderline personality disorder
00:23:07.45\00:23:11.25
where people seem to have little
to no impulse control and will
00:23:11.29\00:23:15.52
act out in very self-destructive
ways. Borderline personality
00:23:15.56\00:23:19.09
clients were thought untreatable
until a woman names Marsha
00:23:19.13\00:23:22.83
Linehan came upon the scene.
Marsha Linehan developed a type
00:23:22.86\00:23:26.53
of treatment called dialectical
behavioral therapy and
00:23:26.57\00:23:29.37
essentially dialectical
behavioral therapy is just
00:23:29.40\00:23:32.14
training the will. She
taught people how to go directly
00:23:32.17\00:23:36.34
against their inclinations in an
exercise called opposite action.
00:23:36.38\00:23:39.78
If they feel like going into the
kitchen and bingeing on sugar,
00:23:39.81\00:23:43.08
she taught them to take a walk
instead. If they felt like going
00:23:43.12\00:23:46.25
to the shopping mall and running
up their credit cards, she
00:23:46.29\00:23:50.43
taught them to go to the soup
kitchen and volunteer instead.
00:23:50.46\00:23:53.46
Do the exact opposite of what
you feel like doing. And Marsha
00:23:53.50\00:23:56.73
Linehan, through dialectical
behavior therapy, was able to
00:23:56.77\00:24:00.04
make progress with borderline
clients, progress that had not
00:24:00.07\00:24:03.27
been made by any other
clinician. I recommend lists.
00:24:03.30\00:24:06.57
I love lists. Lists will help
us to follow through on what we
00:24:06.61\00:24:11.21
call nonpreferred tasks and they
do it in a very interesting way.
00:24:11.25\00:24:15.18
Every time you check an item
off the list you get a little
00:24:15.22\00:24:19.09
dopamine boost in your brain.
You accomplished something, it
00:24:19.12\00:24:21.72
feels good. And when you
complete an entire list, boy,
00:24:21.76\00:24:25.79
that feels like, you
know, something, dare I say it,
00:24:25.83\00:24:29.23
cocaine, but much better because
it doesn't have the negative
00:24:29.26\00:24:33.13
side effects. So I recommend
lists, because if you put your
nonpreferred tasks on
00:24:33.17\00:24:36.50
that list you'll get sort of a
secondary benefit from checking
00:24:36.54\00:24:39.44
that item off. Sort of trick
your brain out of thinking you
00:24:39.47\00:24:42.74
brain out of thinking you don't
want to do it. Let me tell you
00:24:42.78\00:24:46.01
about a woman named Edith Eger.
Edith Eger lived through the
00:24:46.05\00:24:50.42
holocaust. She was a Jew in
Nazi Germany. She watched her
00:24:50.45\00:24:54.76
parents sent to the gas chamber.
A German guard broke her back.
00:24:54.79\00:25:01.53
She endured the death march
in Europe and she wasted away to
00:25:01.56\00:25:06.53
40 pounds, 40 pounds. She was
put on a pile of bodies, left
00:25:06.57\00:25:10.74
for dead and the war ended.
An American soldier saw her hand
00:25:10.77\00:25:14.41
move, pulled her out of the pile
of bodies. The medics came and
00:25:14.44\00:25:18.08
her life was saved. Edith
Eger went on to speak about her
00:25:18.11\00:25:23.15
experience with the holocaust
and what she emphasized was the
00:25:23.18\00:25:27.52
fact that we have a choice. She
remembered that her colleagues
00:25:27.56\00:25:31.73
resorted to cannibalism. They
would eat dead people to sustain
00:25:31.76\00:25:36.36
their lives. She chose not to do
that. She also remembers lying
00:25:36.40\00:25:41.40
in the grass and thanking God
that she still had a choice as
00:25:41.44\00:25:48.04
to which blade of grass to eat.
You know our free will is like
00:25:48.08\00:25:54.62
a present. We were so excited
as little kids to see those
00:25:54.65\00:25:57.22
presents under the tree. How
strange would it have been if
00:25:57.25\00:26:00.26
Christmas morning came and we
didn't even open them. Our free
00:26:00.29\00:26:03.56
will is like for many of us
a present that we never open.
00:26:03.59\00:26:07.16
I recommend that you start
to learn how to act on what you
00:26:07.20\00:26:11.00
know is right. Just do it.
Just experiment with it. Just
00:26:11.03\00:26:14.74
experiment on making a list and
making yourself follow through.
00:26:14.80\00:26:18.61
And you'll start to feel
good about yourself. Open your
00:26:18.64\00:26:21.04
presents.
00:26:21.08\00:26:23.14
Hello, I'm Dr. David DeRose.
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Well friends that's it for
today but join us next week for
00:27:27.48\00:27:32.11
another episode. In the meantime
pick up a phone and give us a
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