Participants: Ron Giannoni (Host), Roderick Kerbs
Series Code: NSN
Program Code: NSN000057
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00:23 Hi folks, and welcome to another edition of NEWSTART Now.
00:27 We have an unusual guest with us today, 00:30 Rod Kerbs, who's come to us from 00:32 Fresno, California. 00:34 And I'd like to show you a clip when he first arrived. 00:39 After two or three years of high stress 00:41 in my job as an administrator, 00:44 principal and vice-principal and teacher, 00:47 in combination with 10 years of diabetes 00:51 and a real big issue dealing with sleep apnea, 00:56 I found myself taking drugs at high capacities. 01:00 Opiates, like... 01:02 things like oxycontin and lyrica, 01:06 and different kinds of drugs used for anti-depression. 01:11 I found myself so sick that 01:13 I had to take myself off the job. 01:15 And since June of this last year, 01:18 I've been almost on my back. 01:21 Enough energy to get up to eat something, 01:24 chew a little while, and then fall down asleep, 01:27 and just barely making it from hour to hour, day to day. 01:32 I've got two little girls and a wife, 01:35 but I can't be very helpful with that, either. 01:38 The biggest thing I want to gain 01:40 is to be able to be healthy again 01:42 so I can enjoy my little girls. 01:45 and to live long enough so that I can walk them down the aisle 01:48 and see my grandkids. 01:51 That's what I'm looking for -- a new life. 01:57 Welcome back friends, and in our studio, Rod. 01:59 How are you, sir? - Great. 02:01 Good to see you. - You bet. 02:03 Well, during that first interview, 02:06 I saw a different guy. 02:08 Maybe someone a little more kicked-back, 02:10 you know, with that hat and the scarf. 02:12 You looked like this dashing young man. 02:15 Tell us what's happened. 02:17 How are the medications going? 02:20 Well, it's ben a really interesting process, 02:22 going from literally 12-13 different kinds of drugs 02:27 down to the point where I have just a little bit of 02:30 medication to keep the pain off 02:32 as my feet are continuing to heal. 02:34 I went from 100 units plus of insulin down to zero now. 02:40 So, no insulin. 02:41 - No insulin. None, whatsoever. 02:44 I had no feeling in my feet, in my legs. 02:47 Much of my leg and both feet were completely numb. 02:53 and very painful, quite honestly, in spots. 02:56 And so that's developed significantly. 03:01 I've gone from maybe, barely able to get up 03:05 to walking 6 and 8 miles a day. 03:07 - Oh my goodness, that's great! 03:10 - Congratulations. Yeah, it's pretty impressive. 03:12 - So you think you've got this thing whipped? 03:15 I know you talked about opiates, 03:17 and I had a younger brother who had been on heroin 03:22 for most his life, 03:25 and we've seen him get off heroin on several occasions, 03:29 only to go back to it. 03:30 Tell us why your situation is different. 03:34 Well, I think part of it is the kinds of materials 03:37 that I was using for pain medication. 03:39 although they're similar, prescription. 03:42 And although you can get really stuck with that stuff, 03:45 I had only taken the really heaviest 03:48 for only about 6 to 8 months. 03:51 And even with that, 03:53 I had to go through withdrawals. 03:54 The last 2 or 3 weeks, 03:56 I can tell you I went through a lot of pain and agony 03:59 to get off of those rascals. 04:01 I'm not interested in doing that again! 04:04 I saw you here and there, 04:06 and I noticed that you were kinda...working with it. 04:09 - Yes. 04:10 And I didn't want to play down the diabetes. 04:12 Let's get back to that just for a moment. 04:15 Are you saying to us now that 04:17 your diabetes is totally in check, 04:19 that you no longer are diabetic? 04:21 No, I think I'll be a diabetic all my life. 04:23 The key here is that I'm controlling it 04:27 with exercise, fresh air, water, and a vegan diet 04:31 that has literally saved my life. 04:33 So your blood sugar numbers, 04:35 where are they in the mornings now? 04:38 Well, let me get some background to this, 04:41 because it makes a lot more sense. 04:42 A1Cs, two years ago-- 14, and higher. 04:48 - Wow. 04:49 Now the standard for A1C now... 04:52 ...is what, 6.5? - About 6.5-7. 04:55 - And where are you today? 04:57 Well, before I came, 04:59 my endocrinologist helped me quite a bit 05:01 with insulin, and with lots and lots of pills, 05:04 and we had gotten it down to the point where 05:07 oh, 9.5-10, maybe. 05:10 - With the pills. With insulin, with pills. 05:13 Oh, with insulin and pills. - With everything. 05:15 So I was in pretty rough shape. 05:17 And since I've come here, 05:19 within the first two or three days, 05:21 we went from 100 units of insulin to 50, per day. 05:25 And within a week, I was down to literally taking no insulin. 05:29 Although my blood sugars have been up around 190, 180, 05:34 that's two hours after eating a meal. 05:36 So it's not totally crazy, 05:39 but a little higher than what I care to have them. 05:42 But they're now down sitting around 160, 150. 05:46 And occasionally, I have the joy of seeing 110 and 120. 05:53 But in the first few days though, 05:56 I had a few really rough calls. 05:58 Thank goodness for good doctors and nurses here. 06:00 I had some low blood sugars as low as 38-41. 06:05 And I will tell you, the drug withdrawal-- 06:08 nothing, compared to that. 06:10 That wasn't fun. But, it's under control now, 06:14 and I just feel like I have a new lease on life. 06:16 Okay, so you've got this under control. 06:20 I, too, am what you might call diabetic. 06:23 But when I lowered my blood sugar numbers to 80s and 90s, 06:28 the doctor said, "Well, for all intents and purposes, 06:31 you're no longer diabetic." 06:32 I said, "I'll buy that." So I'm no longer diabetic, 06:35 although susceptible, perhaps, 06:38 being if I don't watch the lifestyle I'm leading. 06:44 What about now, getting back to the pain medications... 06:48 Before that, were there any other medications 06:51 that you were taking? 06:52 Well, it's hard to even start this thing, because 06:56 between sleep apnea and dealing with 06:59 pain in my legs and feet 07:02 and dealing with depression, heavy depression, 07:05 between the pain and stress at work 07:08 and not getting enough sleep with sleep apnea, 07:12 I was doing... What did they say? 07:15 40 to 50 times every hour at night 07:19 my sleep was interrupted with my airways stopping. 07:25 Like, my breath would stop. I would stop breathing. 07:28 40 to 50 times an hour. 07:31 And according to the study that we did 07:34 just a matter of weeks ago, 07:36 I was not ever getting any level 3 and level 4 REM sleep, 07:42 which simply means, I was not getting sleep. 07:44 I was actually semi-conscious 07:47 in level 1 and level 2. 07:49 I thought I actually maybe slept some, 07:52 and maybe even dreamt some. 07:55 But I figured it out, and the doctors figured it out, 07:57 I wasn't doing any of that. I wasn't sleeping. 08:00 So I was so exhausted to the point that 08:03 I couldn't even sleep! 08:05 I was afraid to go to sleep at night. 08:07 So then I started taking Xanax. 08:10 I started taking other medications 08:11 to go with that, to go to sleep. 08:13 So I'd go to sleep with Xanax and whatever necessary, 08:17 and in the morning, out came the coffee and the Coke 08:20 so I could wake up and get to school, and function. 08:25 And that really wore my body to a frazzle. 08:27 There just wasn't much left. 08:29 And so, where do you go from here? 08:32 Is this a lifestyle that you've chosen, 08:37 that you're going to stick with for the duration? 08:40 My family has agreed that this is the way we're going, 08:43 and I'm the main cook at home, so.... 08:45 And my wife of course does a lot of help too, 08:48 and cooks some, as well. 08:50 In fact, she's now become a cooking partner 08:52 with vegan stuff, so this is all new to us. 08:55 We're vegetarians to the most part, 08:58 but never vegan to this point. 09:01 We had plenty of oil going in all our food, 09:04 and plenty of sugar on the other side. 09:06 And so this is a totally different lifestyle. 09:10 My kids are excited about trying the new 09:13 tastes and look of food, 09:15 and my wife is excited about seeing me well 09:17 and being able to be helpful in the home. 09:20 And I enjoy wrestling with my kids now, 09:23 which for a long time I couldn't do. 09:26 Rod, we have about a minute left. 09:28 Can you tell our viewers in the next 30 seconds 09:33 pretty much what they could do or what they might do 09:36 if they have a similar situation as yours? 09:39 Well, to me, the only thing to do is to get help 09:43 that can bring you to the point of becoming well, 09:49 following God's prescripts. 09:52 He's got a recipe for us. 09:54 And the problem is, we've tainted that recipe 09:57 with a little bit too much sugar, 09:59 a little too much oil. 10:01 We've forgotten what it is to exercise. 10:03 We've forgot what it is to have manual labor and work. 10:06 We don't know what fresh air is. 10:08 We don't know how to get good sleep. 10:10 And place here like Weimar is the best place to come 10:14 to see your life changed. 10:16 - Rod, we're running out of time. 10:18 I want to thank you for joining us on the set. 10:23 Friends, don't go away, because 10:25 in a moment we'll have Doctor Lukens with us. 10:29 Well, you've done very well. 10:37 Do you have diabetes, 10:38 heart disease, high blood pressure, 10:41 or do you weigh too much? 10:43 Hi, my name is Dr. Ing, and I'd like to tell you 10:46 about our 18-day NEWSTART lifestyle program. 10:49 It includes a comprehensive medical evaluation 10:52 with laboratory studies and an exercise stress test, 10:56 physician consultations, 10:58 culinary school, 11:00 and an opportunity to walk on beautiful trails 11:03 in the foothills of the Sierras. 11:07 Your health is one of the most 11:08 important things that you have. Don't wait. 11:11 Give us a call at: 11:16 Or visit our website: 11:35 Welcome back friends, and in our studio, Doctor Lukens. 11:38 How are you? - Very good to be back here. 11:40 Good to see you. - Yes. 11:42 It's always good to talk about these wonderful stories 11:45 like we have right now with Rod Kerbs, who's... 11:48 This was his second tour of duty here at NEWSTART! 11:52 One after another, two months in a row, right? 11:55 Well you know, the reason why he came is because 11:58 of so much pain in his feet. 12:00 And he was on just really way, way too much oxycontin, 12:05 and that's got a lot of street value, and it's... 12:07 But why did he have so much pain? 12:09 He looked like a pretty lean guy. 12:11 Why...what was the pain from? 12:14 Well, when a person has diabetes, they get... 12:17 The micro- circulation in their body 12:21 starts getting compromised. 12:24 And so when you have tissues that are not well-oxygenated, 12:29 they start getting sick, 12:31 and when they do that then they start getting painful. 12:34 That's why people lose their toes, 12:36 and they lose their feet, and so-forth. 12:38 because that circulation is so compromised. 12:41 But he was having enough pain so that 12:43 he was on all this oxycontin. 12:46 And nowadays, what they do, 12:49 because they don't really know of anything for it, 12:52 they will just give you more and more and more. 12:56 We see people that are on methadone, synthetic heroin, 13:00 and all these kind of things, and it just... 13:02 After a while you realize, you know, 13:04 "I don't feel like myself anymore." 13:06 And so that's the reason why he came. 13:08 He wanted to get off of these things. 13:10 And what happens when you-- 13:12 and I say this all the time-- 13:14 when you eat these plant-based foods, 13:17 you get a substance called a prostaglandin. 13:20 And that dilates those tiny little blood vessels. 13:23 The flow goes in there, 13:25 and these cells that are oxygen-starved, 13:30 the sheath on the nerves, the myelin sheath, 13:34 those start getting healthy again. 13:36 We've done studies with this before. 13:38 so I kinda knew what we could expect in a lot of cases. 13:42 And he started getting better, 13:45 and he was really interested in that. 13:47 Of course, that's why he came. 13:49 He was happy about it. 13:50 But he was still on quite a bit. 13:52 He was also on something that's another one, 13:56 gabapentin, it's quite a complex medication. 14:00 It works on various different levels. 14:02 But he was on the newer form of it, 14:05 and he wanted to get off of those. 14:07 And to show you what kind of a medication he was on, 14:11 he has to keep track of all the tablets, 14:14 he has to call the pharmacy when it's time, 14:17 when it's almost time to get the next batch, 14:19 he has to go in personally, and... 14:21 So they really try to control this substance. 14:24 So there's certain restrictions because it's 14:26 like a morphine or that type of medication. 14:30 Well back East, the pharmacies will put up a sign 14:34 "No oxycontin sold here," 14:38 because people were going in and holding them up. 14:40 And they were shooting it in the veins and stuff like that. 14:44 So anyway, besides that, 14:46 it was really a wonderful thing 14:49 for him to be able to get off of some of this medication. 14:53 So he went back... 14:54 Some of the pain was gone, so he went back, 14:58 and we lowered his dose, and he wanted to lower it again. 15:01 And so that's why he came the second time around. 15:04 You say he got off of some of the medication. 15:06 So he was still on medication when 15:08 he left here just a few days ago. 15:10 Yep, he had some, but he had reduced it more than half. 15:14 He was really excited about that. 15:15 And then just the other day, 15:17 he wanted another prescription to be called in 15:19 so that he could reduce it even more. 15:21 So then the next batch will be a smaller amount. 15:24 And you see, he has a couple of young daughters, 15:28 and his wife, 15:31 and he's a very musical, very talented person. 15:34 He's done a lot with kids and everything. 15:36 And here he is, 53 years of age, 15:38 and they offered him retirement because they just... 15:41 Conventional medical science tells us 15:44 you really can't get over these things. 15:46 Once you've got them, you just keep deteriorating. 15:49 And he was getting over them, 15:50 and that's a wonderful, wonderful thing. 15:54 You can imagine, at 53 years of age, to be 15:56 on disability until you go into retirement, 16:00 and here you have your daughters saying, 16:01 "Daddy's always home, 16:03 and he can't do anything and he's got pain." 16:05 So it was just a really trying case for the whole family. 16:10 Okay. Here's the magic question. 16:11 And I know I've asked you this a lot of times. 16:15 How is this program going to change all that? 16:18 I mean, you're telling me the guy basically... 16:21 And he has said to me, "Look, I'm strung out on these drugs. 16:26 I don't know what to do." 16:28 But you're saying here on our NEWSTART program 16:32 that we can wean him off these medications, 16:34 bring him back to a healthy and whole life. 16:37 How is this possible? Is it...? 16:40 - What's going on, Doc? 16:41 Well not only that. We were able to 16:43 get him off of his insulin. 16:45 So he kept cutting back on that, 16:49 and what happened is he was losing weight, 16:51 as we expected him to do. 16:53 He was really doing well on his exercise, 16:56 and exercise also helps you to bear pain. 16:59 The more exercise you get the better you feel. 17:02 All those endorphins and stuff are moving around, 17:06 and so that was helping him, too. 17:08 So as he lost weight, 17:10 the cells were willing to accept more of the sugar 17:14 as he lost weight and got off of more of the insulin. 17:19 The... 17:21 So is he totally off insulin? 17:23 Yep, and his numbers were coming down 17:26 practically into the normal range. 17:28 And the latest thing now is that they find that if we 17:31 shove these numbers down 17:33 and we keep getting them lower and lower, 17:35 that we have more cardiac deaths. 17:37 And this is kind of a... 17:38 I just got last month in my Family Practice News, 17:42 I got the numbers, and they keep moving it up. 17:46 So they allow your hemoglobin A1Cs to be 17:50 higher and higher now as they see that 17:53 the more of the medications that you take 17:56 the more likely you are to get a heart attack. 17:58 In fact, 1 out of 5, they stopped once... 18:01 One study that they were doing, they were checking cholesterol, 18:05 they were checking the blood pressure, 18:08 and they were checking the sugar levels, the A1Cs. 18:12 And they gave up on the sugar levels because 18:14 when they drove them down with the extra medications, 18:17 they found out that 1 out of 5 was getting a heart attack 18:22 or having a coronary event, so.... 18:26 It's really something. 18:27 Why I'm so excited about this case is because he's young, 18:31 he has a young family, 18:34 and now probably he'll be going back to work, 18:37 and he's looking forward to that. 18:39 It's just like his life was given back again, 18:43 and you know, the Lord is so good. 18:45 We do these simple things, 18:47 and people say, "Well, how can just a plant-based diet... 18:51 You go out and you exercise and all that stuff. 18:54 How can this stuff work so that 18:56 these people get their life back?" 18:58 And I say, "Praise the Lord. 18:59 He's the Healer." 19:01 Let's do this. Let's review once again 19:03 for our viewers what the acronym NEWSTART represents. 19:07 We know that N is for nutrition. 19:11 And that's the whole plant foods eaten whole. 19:15 No extra oil, which just adds more fat 19:19 and more calories to the diabetic. 19:21 But they can have fat in the form of whole food. 19:22 In the form of avocados and olives and nuts. 19:26 We find that nuts are very heart-healthy. 19:28 It's recommended that a person takes 19:31 either very lightly toasted or raw nuts. 19:34 They can have a half a cup a day. 19:35 And E is for exercise, 19:38 and what we mean by exercise is just walking, right? 19:40 At any pace. 19:42 It's been shown that if you 19:45 just walk in a lot of different increments 19:48 and you're going along, even at a snail's pace... 19:51 Dr. Jeremiah Stamler said, "The distance is important 19:55 even if you have to crawl." 19:57 - Yes. çlaughterÑ 19:59 Not many can crawl fast. 20:01 And the W is for water. 20:03 Make sure you're drinking enough water. 20:05 And when I came through the program I was told, 20:07 and I don't know if this is still the same, but 20:09 for every 15 pounds, drink 8 ounces of water. 20:13 Is that pretty standard? 20:14 Yeah -- 25 extra pounds, another 8-ounce glass. 20:19 It helps you so that you feel more, you know, 20:23 have a better sense of well-being. 20:25 And sometimes people eat when they actually are thirsty, 20:29 and they think that it's a hunger pain. 20:31 And S -- sunshine. 20:33 We should get what? An hour of sunshine a day? 20:37 Well, less than that, but 20:40 you know, in fact right now 20:42 I'm going to be talking about sunlight and cancer, 20:45 and probably it's not as closely tied to the sunlight as it is to 20:53 Okay, we're running out of time here, so I want to finish. 20:56 And T for temperance, 20:58 - Air. Okay, A for air, 21:01 - Rest. And then R for rest, 21:04 And T, my favorite, is trust in the divine power. 21:08 And that's it, right? - Mhmm. 21:10 And if people do those things they're going to get healthy. 21:13 That's wonderful. - Yes. 21:15 Dr. Lukens, I want to thank you for joining us in the studio. 21:18 - It's my pleasure. It's always a pleasure. 21:21 It's always a pleasure. - Thank you very much. 21:22 And friends, thank you for joining us. 21:25 Don't go away. 21:27 We have an important message for you 21:29 right after this break. 21:44 Hello, and welcome to NEWSTART at Home. 21:46 I'm your host, Don Mackintosh. 21:47 We're glad you're with us today, and 21:49 I'm glad that Rich Kollumberg is in the studio with us. 21:51 Welcome, Rich. - Hi Don. 21:53 Now you're here... What are you here to talk about? 21:55 I'm here to talk about addictions. 21:57 And you have some experience. 21:58 I have a little experience. I was an addict 22:02 for about 25 years of my life. 22:04 I used and abused just about every kind of 22:06 drug or substance that there was. 22:08 Okay. Well, you know, 22:10 all things work together for good, 22:11 in other words, the Lord can use that. 22:13 I'm glad you're willing to come and talk about it. 22:14 And I'm glad you're still alive, 22:16 because a lot of people that get into addictions, 22:18 you know, they don't make it. 22:19 So I'm glad you're here. 22:21 What is an addiction? 22:22 And addiction is a habit that controls you. 22:27 That you don't control, but it controls you. 22:29 Now when we were talking, you said 22:31 there's two different types of addictions. 22:33 Yeah, there's two different types. 22:34 There's substance addiction, which would be 22:37 drugs, alcohol, coffee, cigarettes. 22:41 And then there's behavioral addictions. 22:43 And behavioral addictions would fall... 22:45 You would have jealousy, anger, sexual addictions, 22:49 gambling, and whatnot. 22:51 Critical-type spirit, gossiping, all those... 22:54 Yes, all those type of things are behavioral addictions. 22:56 So behavioral addictions and substance addictions, 23:00 and you struggled with both of those. 23:02 Very much so. 23:03 - The probably go together. They go hand in hand. 23:06 And so, how does that happen? 23:07 A habit to me, as I would think, sounds like a good thing. 23:11 Yeah, habits are our friends, 23:12 but when they turn bad they become addictions. 23:15 What we end up doing is 23:17 we end up following and wanting pleasure 23:20 more than thinking long-term. 23:22 And when we desire that pleasure, 23:24 that can turn into an addiction, 23:26 and we don't think long-term anymore, 23:29 and we end up giving ourselves over to that pleasure, 23:33 whatever it may be. 23:34 Whatever satisfaction we get out of gossip, 23:36 whatever satisfaction we get out of a drug, 23:39 or whatever, we give ourselves over to that. 23:41 In fact, the Bible speaks of that exact same phrase 23:44 when it talks about the behavioral 23:46 addictions of Sodom and Gomorrah. 23:48 In Jude 1:7 it says, 23:49 "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, 23:51 and the cities about them in like manner, 23:53 giving themselves over to fornication, 23:56 and going after strange flesh, 23:58 are set forth as an example, 24:01 suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." 24:02 So we can see the Bible actually talks about 24:05 how they, in Sodom and Gomorrah, 24:07 gave themselves over to this bad behavior. 24:09 Is it a one-way street, 24:11 so you give yourself over, that's it? 24:13 That's not it, praise the Lord for that. 24:16 I can remember back... 24:18 I think I'd used about everybody up on the planet. 24:20 I was all alone. 24:22 It was back in 1996, and I was all done. 24:26 And my girlfriend wouldn't even see me anymore. 24:29 And I can remember lying face down on my bed, 24:32 crying out to God, "God help me." 24:34 And He said, you know, 24:35 "Forty-one years, your way hasn't worked." 24:38 And so He said, "It's time to try it my way." 24:41 And so I cried out to Him, 24:44 and He said that this is going to work. 24:47 And I didn't know how it was going to work. 24:49 So it was like a 3-word prayer, huh? 24:50 Yeah -- "God help me." 24:52 For three months I prayed that 3-word prayer, 24:54 "God help me," and He answered that prayer. 24:57 So that was really your way of 24:58 giving yourself over to something else. 25:01 Exactly. We can't muster up enough 25:03 ego motivation to make it work. 25:06 We have to give ourselves over to something or someone else. 25:09 You know, I like your little book that you've written here, 25:11 "Clean 7 Steps to Freedom: What Every Addict Needs." 25:16 It's got a picture there of that, 25:18 you know, the ladder going up. 25:19 Out of the way you are you gave yourself over to something, 25:22 kinda like the prodigal son. 25:24 "This is what I want. I want my inheritance, 25:27 I want this, I want that." 25:28 And then he changed. 25:30 He says, "Make me one of your servants." 25:32 You kinda had that moment. 25:33 That's right, that's right. 25:35 And it worked out, God put it in my heart 25:38 that I was going to turn 180 degrees, 25:40 and I didn't know. That was my nickname for a while. 25:42 My family called me 180 for a while, 25:45 because everything changes. 25:46 Everything I'd done in my life up to that point was wrong. 25:50 So that's the big first step. 25:51 I mean, if you were talking to someone about a first step, 25:54 it is coming to that point 25:56 of saying, "I gave myself over to this, but 25:58 I can give myself over to something else." 26:00 Yeah, admitting. 26:02 Acknowledging and admitting that you've got a problem. 26:04 Well, I encourage you... 26:06 You've been watching today NEWSTART at Home. 26:10 Get this book. Go to our website: 26:16 and get a copy of this book by just following the links. 26:19 And it's got some real practical help in here. 26:20 I want to thank you again for coming, 26:22 being vulnerable, opening your life up here to us. 26:24 My pleasure. 26:26 And what doesn't beat us makes us stronger sometimes. 26:28 You're able to help people as a result. 26:31 And so will you. 26:33 We're glad you've joined us, and we hope that 26:34 as a result of watching today NEWSTART at Home, 26:36 you will have a new start at home, or wherever you are, 26:40 and your life will turn around. 26:42 You could be on this program someday, 26:43 or be used by God wherever you are. 26:46 Thanks for joining us. 26:54 Modern views of evolution stem all the way back 26:57 to theories developed in the mid-1800s. 27:00 Out of the same time period came ideas that shape 27:03 our educational system today. 27:06 The Common School Movement, for example, 27:09 saw schools more like a factory, 27:11 with students blindly memorizing instruction 27:14 rather than thinking for themselves. 27:16 Their curriculum was rigid and theoretical. 27:19 Instead of being flexible and practical, 27:22 it was designed to conform the individual 27:24 into a specific ideological mold 27:27 that fit the needs of an old industrial era 27:29 long since passed. 27:32 Just like our view of creation in six literal days, 27:35 we believe the Bible contains an educational blueprint 27:40 radically different from the one we see now. 27:56 Well friends, that's it for today. 27:57 We'd like to be able to help you. 27:59 If you have a problem, pick up the phone and call us at: |
Revised 2013-06-17