Participants: Pr. Dwight Nelson
Series Code: NP
Program Code: NP110808
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00:27 Hear my humble cry
00:34 While on others Thou art calling 00:41 Do not pass me by. 00:52 This morning, we gonna spend a little bit of time 00:55 talking with a man name Luca. 00:57 And I'd like to invite him to come up, 00:58 I'm not gonna to try to pronounce his, his last name. 01:03 Luca is from Italy, if I understand correctly. 01:06 So tell us a little bit about yourself 01:09 and what brought you here to Andrews? 01:12 Well, good morning, everybody. 01:13 Can you hear me? Yes, yes. 01:15 So yeah, my name is Luca, my last name-- 01:18 last name is pronounced Marulli. 01:20 But don't bother about, that's fine. 01:23 I'm Italian, and I'm a pastor as well. 01:28 I've been living in Italy until I was 24, 01:31 then I got married and with my wife we went to France, 01:35 to keep studying theology. 01:38 And in 2000, year 2003 01:43 we accepted a call from the Canadian Conference 01:47 to come to Toronto and serve Italian church there 01:51 along with another small English speaking congregation. 01:54 So you've traveled the world, you're here in Canada, 01:58 you've come down to United States 01:59 to start school to get your M.Div what happened? 02:03 What happened is that we came here my wife, 02:06 my daughter was now 19 month old 02:09 and myself we came last year mid August 02:14 and so we settled ourselves here, 02:17 we found a nice place to stay, 02:19 and by the end of the month we started school. 02:21 And what happens that after a month mid September, 02:26 I started to feel little bit awkward, 02:27 my belly was blowing a little bit 02:31 and I decided to go to doctor for a check up 02:35 and she thought there may be, might have had some gal stones 02:40 so I went for a CT-- for a ultrasound 02:44 and then she called me, 02:45 they after saying we need to go-- 02:47 you need to go for a CT scan, there's something there, 02:50 so briefly they discovered that they had quite big mass, 02:54 five inch ball shape mass on my pancreas. 02:59 And they thought that I had pancreatic cancer 03:03 which doesn't give you a lot of hope of surviving, 03:06 so what we did, we had to schedule for surgery 03:12 and that's what they did, 03:13 and after surgery the doctor told us 03:15 there is a good news and a bad news. 03:18 Let's start with the good news. 03:20 The good news is that you don't have any pancreatic cancer. 03:25 The cancer of the mass is just sitting on the pancreas 03:28 but it is not attached, 03:30 so it's not growing out of the pancreas. 03:32 The bad news is that you have cancer all over your bowels 03:35 and then the PT scan would reveal that 03:37 you have also some in your growing chest and neck, 03:42 so was a little bit spread already. 03:43 Here you are at Andrews, you've just gotten here, 03:46 you're studying for your M.Div 03:48 and you find out you have cancer. 03:50 There is an anointing that happened 03:51 towards the beginning of your illness. 03:53 That's right. 03:54 Who called for that and what happened 03:56 and what were you expecting to come from that anointing. 03:59 The Ontario Conference 04:01 executive secretary Pastor Bueno, 04:04 whose has been teaching here at Andrews for number of years, 04:06 so some of you might know him already. 04:10 We are good friends and he has been very supportive, 04:13 so he called me saying you know what, 04:15 we should plan for an anointing service. 04:17 And they said that's a great idea 04:20 and he want me to invite people who were meaningful to me, 04:24 and he suggested also to invite Pastor Nelson. 04:30 I thought about it and then I said okay. 04:33 And may be that I should speak about 04:36 what this service meant to me 04:38 and why I wanted Pastor Nelson to be also there? 04:42 You know, when you are a pastor, 04:44 you have members that get sick in your community 04:48 and you do anointing service. 04:51 But when you are-- 04:52 when you are the one who is receiving anointing service, 04:57 your perspective changes a lot. 05:01 It is not a rite any more, 05:03 it is not a moment in which you try to support somebody 05:09 and get him connected with God in a special way. 05:12 But to me the anointing service was-- 05:15 I was not expecting any miracle or any-- 05:17 to see any burning bush 05:19 or having any special manifestation of God's power. 05:24 To me the anointing service at that very moment meant 05:27 to have people who really cared about me and my family, 05:31 who showed somehow that they were caring and that-- 05:35 I want around me people whose prayers were sincere. 05:42 And I wanted Pastor Nelson because he came to my place 05:45 before I went through surgery, 05:48 before we planned for the anointing service. 05:51 So he came, he showed that there is some concern 05:54 and some love towards our family, 05:56 so he said okay, that's fine. 05:58 He can come. 06:00 Now, now during this experience you were praying, 06:05 but you weren't praying a prayer 06:07 that many people would pray. 06:09 What was the prayer that you were praying? 06:11 I know that I would say, all the people 06:14 who were somehow interceding for us, 06:19 were praying for my healing, 06:21 I have honestly to say that I never prayed God to heal me. 06:28 Not because I didn't want to of course, 06:30 but I felt it inside that God didn't need to show me 06:35 or to prove me anything. 06:37 I knew He was there, I knew He was taking care of me 06:41 and so I-- 06:44 I rather asked to heal my heart, 06:48 to help me face this situation with dignity, with strength, 06:53 with a little bit of humor may be. 06:55 And then the body know it's something that 06:57 I didn't want my health to become an idle, 06:59 something that would come between me and God and saying, 07:02 you know God, my health is there, 07:04 it's the most important thing I have on earth. 07:07 It is not. 07:08 There are other things that are more important. 07:10 And I wouldn't, 07:11 for instance my my family, my wife and my daughter 07:14 to be strong 07:15 and to don't see me depressed 07:17 or just you know falling apart but to see me in a good spirit 07:20 and have them coping with the situation. 07:23 And but the most meaningful verse to me was 07:25 surely what Jesus said, 07:28 "In this world you gonna face tribulation and sufferings, 07:32 but just take heart because I have overcome the world." 07:35 so I was sure that my-- my life was hidden in God 07:38 and I would overcome the world with Jesus. 07:41 Amen. Amen. 07:42 Now you seem to be in pretty good health right now, 07:46 you look good. 07:48 Talk a little bit about that? 07:49 Yeah, I-- 07:52 after six months of chemo, 07:58 I finally had in-- on February 14, 08:02 some Valentine's day, a good news, I was cancer free. 08:06 And it was a little bit surprising 08:08 because of the extension of the tumor. 08:18 There is also another side that I have a high chance of relapse 08:21 but that's fine. 08:25 So I'm very happy, what I decided to do, 08:28 it's to get involved in a trial program in Chicago, 08:32 they are testing some new drugs 08:35 that are supposed to prevent any relapse 08:38 and they are not sure if the drug works yet so, 08:42 I'll be in this program for the next two years, 08:44 I've already done almost a year, 08:46 the price for that is I have to go through CT scan, 08:49 every two months. 08:51 Now from February on, I have to do this 08:53 for another year every three months 08:56 and then may be it's gonna be every six months. 08:58 It's a good amount of x-rays but 09:00 somebody told me it is not that bad 09:02 compared to what I had so. 09:04 That's fine, so I'm feeling bad-- good, sorry. 09:07 I'm feeling well. 09:09 But I'm confident, I live day by day, 09:12 and I'm always grateful to God 09:14 and I try to really fully enjoy my family, 09:17 that's my priority now. 09:19 I've two last questions for you. 09:22 The first one is, how did you seek God, in your suffering? 09:27 I never blamed God for what I was going through. 09:34 I have always understood that God is not responsible 09:38 for whatever evil happens in our life 09:42 and I-- I've learned a great deal about God, 09:48 being with me during that time. 09:50 I usually relegated God to His transcendence. 09:54 God is there, we are here, we are sinners, 09:56 whatever happens to us, you know, is not related to Him 09:59 and somehow He is-- 10:01 He is there, He is not here. 10:03 Yes, we have His teaching, yes, we have His promises, 10:07 but finally we die and we got sick like everybody else, 10:11 so there is not that-- 10:12 not very much room for miracles 10:15 and stuff like that. 10:17 I learned to-- to feel God with me, 10:20 to-- it's is not, 10:23 it's not like a mystical experience, 10:25 you're just having this deep feeling of God's presence 10:30 to know that He is there, that He is suffering with you 10:33 that Jesus became flesh, 10:37 so he could feel, what I was feeling. 10:40 And to me that was a great comfort, 10:42 knowing that He would understand me fully. 10:45 What advice-- 10:46 there is many people that are here today 10:48 listening on the radio, watching on television. 10:52 What would you say to someone who is suffering right now? 10:55 What advise would you give them? 10:57 Well, the advice is that... 11:03 I think we have to become very intentional 11:07 in the way we face our troubles. 11:12 I strongly believe God has given us 11:14 a spirit of power of self control 11:19 and we-- it's ours, 11:21 I mean the choice of being fearful or faithful is ours. 11:27 We are not alone in taking this choice, 11:30 we have God, we have our family, 11:32 our friends that gather around, 11:34 but we have to be intentional 11:36 in how we decide to face things. 11:38 It doesn't come spontaneously, 11:41 sometimes we have to learn it the hard way, 11:44 but it's important to decide to be strong, 11:50 to face everything with dignity, to give support, 11:54 especially for others that are not, 11:56 may be affected by the same illness or problem, 11:59 but they are looking at us 12:00 and they are may be more shattered that we could be. 12:03 So I think intentionality 12:05 which goes out is very important 12:07 and also a little bit of humor. 12:09 I remember when I-- 12:11 after I wake up from surgery, I was very conscience, 12:14 so when I woke up I knew exactly where I was 12:18 and who I was, 12:19 and I saw the first face, I saw was my father in law's face. 12:23 He was kind of concerned and I opened my eyes, 12:26 I look at him and I told him who are you? 12:30 And he went like you know, 12:32 then I said just I'm joking, I'm joking, 12:34 he wanted to choke me, 12:35 but a little bit of humor you know I think helps. 12:39 Well, Luca, thank you so much this morning 12:41 for coming and sharing your story with us and just thing, 12:44 allowing us to learn a little bit more about 12:46 who you are 12:47 and the experiences you've been through your suffering. 12:48 Thank you so much. Thank you. 12:55 In my trials 13:01 Lord, walk with me 13:09 In my trials 13:16 Lord, walk with me 13:24 When the shades of 13:32 life are falling 13:40 Lord, I want Jesus 13:46 To walk with me 13:55 In my sorrow 14:02 Lord, walk with me 14:10 In my sorrows 14:17 Lord, walk with me 14:26 When my heart 14:33 Within is aching 14:41 I want Jesus 14:48 To walk with me 14:57 I want Jesus 15:03 To walk with me 15:12 I want Jesus 15:18 To walk with me 15:26 All along my 15:33 Pilgrim journey 15:40 I want Jesus 15:47 To walk with me 15:58 Let's pray. 16:03 Oh, God you have walked with your children 16:09 through the ages. 16:13 You are walking with Luca. 16:16 We too want Jesus to walk with us. 16:23 We have to get this straight, if we're wrong here, 16:28 we're wrong everywhere. 16:31 Make it clear Your teaching this day, 16:34 we pray in Christ name. 16:36 Amen. 16:38 Frederick Buechner, 16:41 in his book, Magnificent Defeat, 16:46 tells a story that he believes is parable of our age. 16:53 It's a true story. 16:58 And he puts it this way. 17:00 It is almost too awful to tell: 17:06 about a boy of 12 or 13 17:08 who, in a fit of crazy anger and depression, 17:10 got hold of a gun somewhere 17:15 and fired it at his father, 17:18 who died not right away but soon afterward. 17:23 When the authorities asked the boy why he had done it, 17:29 he said that it was because he could not stand his father, 17:34 because his father demanded too much from him, 17:40 because he was always after him, 17:43 because he hated his father. 17:47 And then later on, 17:48 after he had been placed in a house of detention somewhere, 17:52 a guard was walking down the corridor late one night 17:57 when he heard sounds from the boy's room, 18:00 and he stopped to listen. 18:04 The words that he heard the boy sobbing out in the dark were, 18:11 I want my father, I want my father. 18:17 When I read that story, I tell you what, 18:18 it cut me to the quick. 18:22 Have we done the same? 18:25 Have we? 18:26 Our world our society, have we killed off our father, 18:34 and now we weep for him, 18:36 I want my father, I want my father. 18:43 Makes you wonder. 18:48 You suppose that's true of atheism as well. 18:53 Although no doubt I'm sure atheism would protest it, 18:57 you cannot want what does not exist. 19:02 But sometimes I wonder if it does protest too loudly. 19:10 The atheist writer Sam Harris 19:12 in his book "Letter to a Christian Nation," 19:16 references the holocaust where 6 million Jews perished. 19:22 He talks about the Rwandan Genocide 19:25 where 800,000 perished. 19:30 He references the smallpox epidemic 19:34 during the 20th century 19:35 where a half a billion human beings died. 19:39 And then he drives home his point. 19:44 I need you to catch that point. 19:46 I need you to ponder it very carefully now. 19:49 Take out your study guide please. 19:52 In your worship bulletin today there is a study guide, 19:54 you gonna want this one take it out, 19:56 if you didn't get one when you came in 19:58 or several of you came to one with only one bulletin between, 20:01 you hold your hands up, 20:02 hold your hand up, our ushers will get it to you right now 20:04 and those of you who are watching on television 20:07 we are delighted to have you, 20:08 I want you to have this study guide too. 20:10 You are joining us in series in process, 20:12 this is a series called Primetime. 20:14 Let me put it on the screen for you, Primetime, 20:16 the website is there at the bottom of the screen 20:18 you see it, www.pmchurch.tv. 20:23 Go to that website, you're looking for Primetime 20:26 this is part nine, 20:27 so we're nearing the end of this series, 20:30 but this particular teachings is entitled 20:31 "Is God to Blame?" 20:34 So look for that title 20:35 and then it says study guide right there, 20:37 you click on and you will have the same study guide 20:39 that we are going to carefully ponder together. 20:44 Because I want to start out with the words of-- 20:45 of the atheist Sam Harris. 20:47 All right, so you see it right there 20:48 at the top of your study guide, 20:50 everybody get one up in the balcony? 20:52 How about an overflow? 20:53 Everybody, please ask the usher for study guide. 20:56 Can't wait though, got to go, so let's go. 20:58 First quotation Sam Harris the atheist he writes, 21:01 "Of course, people of all faiths 21:04 regularly assure one another 21:06 that God is not responsible for human suffering. 21:09 But how else can we understand the claim 21:11 that God is both omniscient, that would be all-knowing, 21:14 and omnipotent, all powerful? 21:16 This is the age-old question of..." Write it down. 21:19 "Theodicy." Write it down. 21:21 "This is the age-old question of theodicy, of course, 21:25 and we should consider it solved." 21:27 Harris says, hey, I've already figured it out, I got it, 21:29 let me tell you how it goes. 21:30 Here he goes. 21:31 "If God exists, 21:34 either He can do nothing to stop 21:36 the most egregious calamities, 21:38 or He does not care to. 21:41 God, therefore, is either impotent or evil." 21:44 Write that in, He is either impotent or evil. 21:47 Who wants a God like that? 21:51 Ergo, there is no God. 21:55 Now, just keep your pen moving 21:56 because you need to understand this word Theodicy, 21:58 it's a Greek compound word, Theos, God plus dike, 22:01 that's justice, 22:02 it means defending a good God in an evil world. 22:07 Fill that in. 22:09 Defending a good God in an evil world. 22:12 Now let's listen to atheist, Gregory A Boyd, 22:15 this book provided the titled for this teaching 22:18 "Is God to Blame?" 22:19 Go to amazon.com that will next week ask for the book, 22:25 a powerful treatment of theodicy, 22:27 Is God to Blame? 22:28 Gregory A Boyd, these are his words, 22:30 it's there in your study guide, put it on the screen. 22:31 "One of the chief problems 22:33 in the Western philosophical tradition 22:35 is reconciling the presence of evil 22:37 with an all-good and all-powerful God. 22:40 The problem, in a nutshell, is that 22:43 if God is all-powerful, it seems 22:45 he must have the ability to stop evil if he wants to. 22:48 And if God is all-good, it seems he would want to. 22:50 Yet evil persists." 22:53 Write it down, evil persists. 22:55 What are we gonna say? 22:57 There isn't one of us here today 22:58 who has not suffered deeply. 23:00 Oh, I think there are probably a few of us who haven't yet? 23:03 I want to say to you who are young enough 23:05 not who have suffered deeply, 23:07 don't you worry, don't you worry, 23:09 thank you, Luca, for that testimony, don't you worry. 23:14 Your turn will come. 23:15 You can't get out of this life, 23:18 without suffering deeply. 23:20 A friend of mine years ago sent me a cartoon 23:22 out of the New Yorker magazine. 23:24 It's a picture of a preacher behind his pulpit 23:28 in his clerical robe, 23:30 he's got his hand up to his neck and he says 23:33 we have gathered this morning 23:35 because we have had it up to here. 23:40 There isn't an atheist alive who hasn't had it up to here. 23:43 There isn't atheist alive who hasn't had it up to here. 23:48 So what should we do with the evidence? 23:53 How could there be a God 23:55 with such awful suffering here below. 23:58 And if there were God, who would want Him? 24:05 How should this primetime generation respond? 24:08 I'm talking to you, prime timers. 24:11 You gonna have to face this. 24:13 This may be the toughest question you face. 24:18 But I'm depending on you to tell the story. 24:23 You see there is a story, most people don't know the story, 24:27 but if you master the story, you can tell the truth. 24:32 I have faith in God through you. 24:37 We'll tell that truth. 24:38 Before we get to the story, 24:39 I want to share one very short 24:41 and simple line from Holy Scripture. 24:43 Open your Bible, there is a pew Bible in front of you 24:45 if you didn't bring a Bible because you need to see it, 24:47 this is a very short sentence 24:49 but I need you please to look at it, 24:51 the Book of 1 Corinthians in the New Testament. 24:55 If you didn't bring your own Bible, 24:56 the pew Bible's page 774, 24:59 774 find the Book of 1 Corinthians. 25:02 This is the great love chapter, of all the Holy Scripture. 25:07 There is no literature quite like this, 1 Corinthians 13, 25:12 I want to begin in verse 1. 25:14 You see the short sentence in a moment, can't miss it. 25:17 But let's begin in verse 1, 1 Corinthians 13. 25:19 By the way I'm in the New King James today. 25:20 If you grab the pew Bible, 25:21 you'll have the same translation, 25:22 but any Bible you have it's fine with me. 25:25 1 Corinthians 13:1, 25:26 "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, 25:33 but have not love, I have become sounding brass 25:35 or a clanging cymbal. 25:37 And though I have the gift of prophecy, 25:38 and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, 25:41 and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, 25:43 but have not love, I am nothing." 25:46 Verse 3, "And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, 25:49 and though I give my body to be burned, 25:50 but have not love, it profits me nothing." 25:53 Verse 4, 25:54 "Love suffers long and is kind, 26:00 love does not envy, love does not parade itself, 26:03 love is not puffed up." 26:04 Hold it right there, hit the pause button, 26:06 that's as far as we need to go. 26:07 Write it down three words "Love suffers long." 26:13 Would you write that down please, 26:14 "Love suffers long." 26:19 The question is how long? 26:25 Any defense of a good God in an evil world must tell the story. 26:29 So I shared with you today, memorize it please. 26:33 Once upon a time 26:36 there was a very loving father, 26:42 and a very happy family. 26:47 A very close family composed of all the father's children, 26:49 some of his children were angels. 26:51 You can call them seraphim and call them cherubim, 26:54 they lived directly in the father's house with him. 26:57 But he had other children 26:59 intelligent creatures, intelligent beings 27:03 who lived in little terrestrial planets 27:06 sprawling all over the father's universe. 27:11 That was a very happy family, with the very loving father, 27:15 like the father you grew up with 27:18 or perhaps didn't. 27:23 Then one day this father 27:24 held a private council with his two divine partners 27:27 as the heads of families often do. 27:30 No children please. 27:34 And in that private council, 27:37 the three determined to create a new order of intelligent life 27:42 within a tiny solar system 27:43 embedded near the edge of a galaxy 27:45 called the Milky Way. 27:50 These new race of beings 27:52 will be created in their image, the father's image 27:57 and will be granted the power of procreation 27:59 that the angelic order did not enjoy. 28:04 When the plan was announced to the family, 28:07 there was great joy 28:08 because all families live by that adage, don't they? 28:11 The more, the merrier within limits of course. 28:18 I say there was great joy, except for one. 28:25 He was the eldest in the family, 28:27 the highest and the brightest of them all, 28:32 an archangel, called the son of the dawn. 28:37 Beautiful, handsome, big. 28:41 His latinized name, Lucifer. 28:47 For some mysterious reason all too familiar now to us 28:52 who are also infected with the insanity of pride, 28:56 Lucifer was hurt, 28:58 that he had been left out of so strategic an initiative 29:02 as a creation of a new order of intelligent life. 29:08 After all he is the mighty covering cherub, 29:13 he stands the closest 29:14 to the eternal of all created life, 29:17 next to the throne itself. 29:23 It is an immensely tragic story. 29:26 This story of eventual rebellion 29:28 within the family of the Father. 29:32 How could a perfect home...? Come on explain this to me. 29:34 How could a perfect home be shattered 29:37 by a heir to for perfect child. 29:40 How is it possible? 29:42 How can it be explained that the child you love so dearly 29:46 is able to break your heart so deeply, 29:49 how does it keep happing? 29:54 And yet, if we would ever tell the truth 29:57 about a good God in an evil world, 29:59 if theodicy would be our mission, 30:04 we have to know the story. 30:06 The story told four passages from the ancient scripture. 30:10 I want to share those four, but they're in your study guide, 30:13 these aren't the whole passages, 30:14 I've just summarized in pulling words out of those passages, 30:17 so that you get the jest. 30:19 Let's start with that first one 30:20 Isaiah 14:12-14, how does it go? 30:23 Here is the summation. 30:24 "How are you fallen from heaven." 30:28 Whatever this is it's started in the house of the Father. 30:32 "How are you fallen from heaven, 30:34 O Lucifer, son of the morning! 30:36 For you have said in your heart, 30:37 'I will be like the Most High.'" 30:40 Now, I want you to try to wrap your puny mind 30:42 around that thought, 30:43 how could a little boy possibly you serve the position 30:46 and prerogatives of his own father. 30:49 It is not only logically impossible, 30:52 it is existentially insane for the creature 30:55 to wish to become the one that created, 30:58 you can't do it. 31:00 I suppose you can want? 31:04 And he did. 31:06 Next passage is Ezekiel 28:12-17, 31:10 "You were the anointed cherub who covers the throne..." 31:13 leaning right over the throne, 31:14 in the presence of the Almighty. 31:16 "You were the anointed cherub 31:17 who covers the throne on the holy mountain of God. 31:19 You were perfect in your ways 31:21 from the day you were created, until iniquity..." 31:23 Write that down. "Iniquity was found in you. 31:27 And you sinned, therefore I cast you out." 31:32 I tell you what, living in a world 31:33 of programmed obsolescence as you and I do 31:35 where everything created by manufacturers 31:38 is designed to break down in a short enough life 31:41 so that you have to come back for more. 31:43 In a world of programmed obsolescence, 31:45 it is impossible for us to imagine a flawless creation. 31:52 Lucifer was without flaw but he was also free 31:58 and there in lies the mystery of this tragic, tragic story. 32:03 Jot it down, Revelation 12:7-12, can you believe this. 32:08 "And war broke out in heaven. 32:12 So that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, 32:15 who deceives the whole world, 32:19 was cast to the earth, and his angels with him. 32:21 Woe to the inhabitants of the earth! 32:23 For the Devil has come down to you, having great wrath." 32:27 Great wrath, he is furious. 32:33 By the way I need to tell you this. 32:35 No sooner was that-- 32:37 was that intelligent life form called the human being created 32:41 on this terrestrial ball we call home and earth. 32:43 No sooner had that life form 32:46 of intelligence being created then a voting booth, 32:49 we've just come out, of something called voting, 32:52 hadn't we? 32:53 A voting booth is established 32:55 and placed in the garden home of the first two 32:58 of this intelligent race. 33:00 The voting booth is there for two reasons. 33:02 Number one, it's an act of fairness 33:05 on the part of the Father 33:06 who says, I'm not gonna limit you. 33:09 You may have access to this brand new creation, 33:13 but you may only have access here, 33:16 you cannot slither through the garden, 33:18 only in one place will I put that booth, 33:22 in fairness to the rebel. 33:24 You may try to woo their vote, 33:27 but there is a second reason it's there. 33:30 All the universe wishes to know, 33:32 will this new life form stay with the Father? 33:38 And so Adam and Eve are instructed, 33:39 you are safe in this garden. 33:41 There is only one place you must not go. 33:43 It's a voting booth, 33:44 if you step into that place and pull the lever, 33:48 you have voted for the fallen one, and it's over. 33:55 Woe to you earth, for the devil has come down to you. 33:59 Final passage, Genesis 3:1-15 34:02 that summarize it with these words, then the spirit, 34:05 "Then the serpent rather said to the woman, 34:08 'Has God indeed said, 'You shall not eat of every tree?' 34:12 You will not surely die. 34:16 For God knows that in the day you eat of this tree, 34:19 you will be just like God." 34:22 The original sin is now sown on the original planet. 34:28 You'll be like God. 34:30 "So she took of its fruit and also gave of it to her husband. 34:34 And they hid themselves 34:36 from the presence of the Lord God." 34:41 Try to picture that moment if we can. 34:45 Having just come out of a hard fought, 34:48 hotly contested presidential election. 34:50 We all know, we all know, that in every election 34:55 there is a winner and there is a loser, 34:57 and no matter how you voted 34:59 even if you voted for the winner, 35:00 when the looser makes his concession speech, 35:04 you can only imagine 35:07 the awful sense of rejection in that heart. 35:13 Imagine how the father felt that day in Eden, 35:18 when they tabulated the balance, and it's two zero. 35:26 They're going with Lucifer. 35:30 C. S. Lewis was an atheist, brilliant 35:36 and he read the Bible and eventually became a Christian. 35:41 In his classic apologist-- 35:43 his classic apology called Mere Christianity, 35:46 C. S. Lewis by the way an atheist became 35:47 probably the most brilliant apologist of the 20th century, 35:51 in his classic defense of the Christian faith 35:53 called Mere Christianity he makes this point. 35:57 Put it on the screen, it's there in your study guide. 35:59 "One of the things that surprised me 36:01 when I first read the New Testament seriously 36:04 was that it talked so much 36:06 about a Dark Power in the universe, 36:08 a mighty evil spirit who was held to be the Power 36:11 behind death and disease, and sin. 36:13 Christianity thinks this Dark Power was created by God, 36:16 and was good when he was created, and went wrong. 36:18 Christianity agrees with Dualism 36:21 that this universe is at war." 36:22 Dualism is a form of philosophy 36:24 that suggest, no, we actually have two eternal powers, 36:26 one is eternally good and the other is eternally evil 36:29 and all of history is the conflict of these two. 36:31 Christianity says, oh, you are right the universe is at war, 36:34 but it's not because they are equal. 36:37 Christianity does not think this is a war 36:39 between independent powers, write it down, 36:41 "It thinks it is a civil war, a rebellion, 36:48 and that we are living in a part of the universe 36:51 occupied by the rebel." 36:54 And there was war in heaven and there is now war on earth, 37:00 and the pictures of the bloody and evil carnage are written 37:04 large across the canvas of this earth's history. 37:17 "Love suffers long." 37:26 Now look, the story that we are sharing right now. 37:31 If the story is true, 37:35 that Lucifer rebelled against his Father 37:37 and shattered the peaceful tranquility of heaven 37:39 and then deceived the fledgling human race 37:42 into joining him in his rebellion. 37:43 Here's the question, write it down. 37:45 Why didn't God just go out and shoot him? 37:48 Get it over with. 37:54 Who can forget this-- 37:56 this emotive photograph from the Vietnam War years ago, 38:01 and if you are baby boomer you know this photograph, 38:03 where I suspected Viet Cong 38:05 collaborators taken out of the streets of Saigon 38:08 and summarily executed. 38:14 I mean what if God had summarily executed 38:16 his eldest child in the same way. 38:17 And you know, why? 38:18 You had God throwing Adam and Eve. 38:19 Let just get this whole mess over with. 38:23 Then the universe could have returned to peace again 38:27 happy days, hallelujah. 38:29 Are here again, 38:30 there'd be no more trouble in the universe, right? 38:34 Wrong. 38:36 You're bright enough, we are bright enough to know, 38:40 it cannot be, in fact jot this down. 38:43 "Because the great and compelling truth about Love 38:49 is that in order for it be love, 38:51 it must not only grant you the right to say yes 38:53 it must also grant and give you the right to say no 38:57 otherwise it is not Love, it is force." 39:02 God could not execute Lucifer, it would have been force. 39:05 And jot this down. 39:06 "A universe of force is a universe of fear." 39:12 Gregory Boyd is absolutely right. 39:13 You see that sentence in your study guide. 39:15 "If love is the end, freedom must be the means to that end." 39:21 So, ladies and gentlemen, 39:22 a loving God has absolutely no choice, 39:25 He has to let this awful rebellion 39:28 play out to its tragic end. 39:36 Otherwise he risks rebellion 39:40 age after age after age, 39:47 there's a fascinating-- 39:49 I'm looking forward to sharing this with you. 39:51 a fascinating angle that I've never seen before, 39:54 in this question of free choice, 39:56 that Gregory Boyd brings out in his book, 39:58 Is God to Blame? 39:59 And it's in your study guide, just get the first line down 40:01 and then I'm gonna tell you the rest. 40:03 It's called the theory of chaos, the chaos theory. 40:06 Jot this down. 40:07 "A recent development in science, chaos theory, 40:10 highlights the interconnected complexity of life 40:13 and the impossibility of our 40:14 ever exhaustively comprehending it." 40:17 So did you write that down, it's called chaos theory. 40:19 Now let me tell you, what this chaos theory is, 40:22 and I'm not a scientist, but here is the thought. 40:24 Apparently nature is so intricately interwoven 40:32 that an interference of the process of nature here 40:40 can eventually create an affect in nature over here, 40:44 and the scientist call it the butterfly effect. 40:46 And here is the illustration. 40:49 A butterfly in Brazil... Any of you from Brazil? 40:52 A butterfly in Brazil flaps its wing, 40:57 and just by the movement of the atoms of air 41:01 that choice spills and spills and spills 41:08 until a hurricane is created from the butterfly's wing. 41:14 A hurricane in the Caribbean. 41:18 The intricate connection of a complex process, 41:26 where the variations in that process at one point 41:29 affect the process in another point. 41:33 In fact we can illustrate it this way. 41:37 Everybody loves the placid pond, 41:38 and when you see a placid pond 41:40 then the first instinct is to reach down 41:43 and grab a little pebble 41:44 and throw that pebble out on to those glassy, 41:49 that glassy surface. 41:51 What happens when the pebble splashes? What happens? 41:54 It creates a ripple. And a ripple, isn't that right? 41:56 Little conceptive ripples, and ripples, and ripples, 41:58 and by the way that pond where a 1,000 miles across 42:01 those ripples would go for a 1000 miles can't see them now, 42:04 but they just keep going, isn't that true? 42:07 And by the way, if you throw a pebble in 42:08 and you get those ripples 42:09 and I'm on the other side of the pond, 42:11 and I then throw in my pebble and it creates ripples, 42:13 you get a matrix of ripples 42:15 because my ripples were bump into yours 42:17 and create a third set, 42:19 a whole new combination and they bump in 42:20 and you see how it goes. 42:24 Our free choice, is like that pebble in a pond. 42:30 So a man one day, goes into a bar free choice, 42:35 wrong choice by the way, but free. 42:38 He goes into a bar, he orders a drink 42:41 wrong choice but free choice, 42:43 he orders more than one drink until finally he is inebriated, 42:47 free choice, free choice, free choice. 42:49 Finally he pushes away from the counter, 42:52 stumbles back to the parking lot 42:53 and gets into his car free choice, 42:55 inebriated he drive down the road free choice, 42:59 losing control of his mind, 43:00 he crosses the central line free choice 43:03 and slams into an automobile 43:09 carrying a mother and two children, free choice 43:12 all three are instantly slain. 43:16 Innocent victims of a series of free choices. 43:24 You say, come on Dwight, you know, we really need to do, 43:26 as we need to-- 43:27 we need to limit that man's free choices 43:29 before he gets into that kind of trouble. 43:30 Ladies and gentlemen, 43:31 may I remind you that to deny the man those free choices 43:34 ahead of time would be to incarcerate him all the time. 43:38 And God is not willing to pay that price. 43:40 I will have to let the free choices go. 43:43 I'm sorry, you got caught in the matrix. 43:50 Free choice, love suffers long. 43:57 Boyd goes on, jot this down. 44:00 "Because love requires choice, 44:02 humans and angels have the power 44:03 to affect others for better or for worse. 44:05 Indeed, every decision we make 44:06 affects other agents in some measure. 44:09 We are the heirs to an incomprehensibly 44:12 vast array of human, angelic, 44:14 and natural ripples throughout history 44:16 about which we know next to nothing 44:18 but which nevertheless 44:19 significantly affect our lives." 44:23 Ladies and gentlemen, let's be clear about this. 44:25 All human suffering is not the consequence of personal choice. 44:31 Two Sundays ago, a dear friend of mine died, 44:36 bright, gifted church administrator, 44:41 husband, father, 44:43 young grandfather, 61 years old. 44:46 Do you think my friend Jerry Potzer, 44:50 chose the cancer that cut him down in the end. 44:56 Of course not. 44:57 All human suffering is not the consequence of personal choice, 45:01 but all suffering is the consequence 45:04 of free choices. 45:07 Free choices, a series of concentric ripples 45:10 that the Bible traces back to the source of all chaos, 45:13 the source of all suffering human and creature 45:15 that darken fallen archangel, 45:17 that the Hebrew calls the adversary, 45:19 in the Hebrew Satan, 45:21 we call him Satan, that one. 45:25 Because of his free choice, 45:27 rejects the father's love and plunges himself-- 45:30 not only himself, 45:32 but the entire household of the Father in the heaven 45:35 and on earth 45:37 into incomprehensible suffering. 45:44 Gregory Boyd writes, "Though we can't know the 'why' 45:48 of any particular instance of suffering, 45:50 we can and must know 45:51 that our whole environment is under siege, 45:56 under siege by forces that hate God and all that is good." 46:02 By the way, it's for that reason ladies and gentlemen, 46:03 that we live today with hospices and hospitals. 46:07 Ever heard of those? 46:08 We live today with divorce court and penitentiaries. 46:15 We live today with mortuaries and cemeteries. 46:19 We live today with sexual perversions 46:21 and moral dysfunctions, 46:24 because of that free choice, we live today. 46:29 The hearts that are broken, minds that are broken, 46:33 bodies that are broken, an entire creation broke. 46:39 Because once upon a time, 46:42 a pebble was dropped in the water of free choice, 46:47 and the ripples still go on. 46:57 The demonic angel, 47:02 who has wroth this bloody and baleful harvest on this planet. 47:07 Is really rather brilliant and I got-- 47:09 I got to share this with you before I sit down. 47:10 He is brilliant. 47:12 He has come up with the cocktail 47:16 of three multiple choice questions, brilliant. 47:20 It doesn't matter, who-- 47:21 it doesn't matter to him who you are? 47:22 Let's say you are a believer, 47:24 so his deception for you is blame God. 47:30 Oh, look what's happening to me. 47:32 How could God do this to me? 47:34 How could He do this to us? 47:36 Blame God. 47:39 It reminds me of an arsonist who torches the house, 47:42 stands in the middle of the flames 47:44 and then points up and says he did it. 47:47 Okay, it's a cocktail of deceptions. 47:50 Deception one is for those who believe, blame God. 47:52 Deception two is for those who do not believe, no God. 47:56 No, God. 47:57 This is just the brutal reaping of random natural chance-- 48:04 I'm sorry, it ends this way, you're stuck on this planet, 48:08 you had the luck to be born, no God. 48:13 Now most people stop right there, 48:15 but this cocktail is so potent, there is a third option. 48:20 He doesn't want you to know the third option. 48:23 If He can get the second deception clear in your mind, 48:26 you ipso facto have to embrace the third one, 48:29 though you don't think about it, 48:30 and the third one is this, no God, no devil. 48:34 There is no devil. 48:37 There is no devil, you can't-- 48:40 you can't just blame this on some 48:42 impute red horns and a pitch fork tail. 48:45 There is no devil. You are too smart for that. 48:49 Why does he want no devil? 48:52 Because if man has no God, and no devil, 48:56 man becomes his own God 49:00 and his own worst enemy. 49:05 Deadly cocktail, 49:07 take all three, take one, take two, 49:10 it doesn't matter to the brilliant, genius of evil. 49:14 That Jesus nailed without apology, 49:17 when He spoke these words in Mathew 13, write them down, 49:19 "An enemy has done this." 49:24 This is the work of an enemy. 49:27 This is the work of an enemy. 49:30 And all the while love suffers long. 49:36 How long? 49:39 Ask that with the God, who died on the middle cross, 49:41 you got an argument? 49:43 You ask that with the God who died on the middle cross, 49:45 ask Him how long love is supposed to suffer? 49:48 Ask Him how deep is the suffering? 49:50 Go to the God on the centre cross, 49:54 and enquire, how can this be? 49:59 A 100 years ago, a little classic called Education, 50:03 the words are in your study guide, 50:04 I put it on the screen for you as well. 50:07 "Few give thought to the suffering 50:09 that sin has caused our Creator. 50:13 All heaven suffered in Christ's agony, 50:15 but that suffering did not begin or end 50:17 with his manifestation in humanity." 50:18 He didn't start when he became a baby and end when He rose. 50:21 Are you kidding? 50:22 The line, the next line, 50:24 "The cross is a revelation to our dull senses of the pain 50:27 that, from its very inception, 50:29 sin has brought to the heart of God." 50:32 He has been suffering and suffering and suffering, 50:38 "As the whole creation groans and travails in pain together, 50:42 the heart of the infinite Father 50:44 is pained in sympathy." 50:47 Never forget it, love suffers long. 50:54 I know it's not-- 50:55 I know it doesn't make a sense, 50:57 a weight of sense to an atheist? 51:00 And I must confess to you 51:01 that it barely makes sense to atheist. 51:04 This idea of the God of the universe, 51:08 on that center cross, 51:10 and eternally sacrificing Himself for a rebel race, 51:15 it makes no sense at all. 51:22 But if you ever-- 51:23 if you ever engage in theodicy, 51:27 you cannot leave the story of Calvary. 51:34 Out of that exchange. 51:40 God is forever changed, 51:43 He will never again be the same. 51:47 He's bound to the heart of a planet, 51:52 that has suffered long itself. 51:57 Love suffers long. 52:03 And it will continue to suffer long 52:05 until the last free choice is made. 52:08 And by the way, may I remind you this, 52:10 the ultimate free choice in the universe 52:13 was the choice of God to come down. 52:19 Not just suffer with us, not just suffer because of us, 52:27 but to suffer for us. 52:31 So that by believing in Him 52:35 we who were born atheists, born without hope, 52:41 born without promise, 52:44 born with only despair our final end. 52:48 So that because of Him, 52:53 we might believe and live in His family one day, 53:00 forever and ever. 53:03 Amen. 53:06 I want to read you a poem, 53:11 written after the carnage of the First World War 53:13 by one who experienced it, 53:15 an English man named Edward Shillito. 53:21 He was meditating one day after the awful war end all wars, 53:27 and he was reading the story about the resurrected Christ 53:29 revealing Himself to His disciples 53:31 by showing them his wounds. 53:34 And so he wrote this poem 53:37 entitled that The Jesus of the Scars, here it is 53:43 If we have never sought, we seek Thee now, 53:47 Thine eyes burn through the dark, our only stars, 53:51 We must have sight of thorn-marks on Thy brow, 53:56 We must have Thee, O Jesus of the Scars. 54:01 The heavens frighten us, they are too calm, 54:03 In all the universe we have no place. 54:05 Our wounds are hurting us, where is the balm? 54:08 Lord Jesus, by Thy Scars, we know Thy grace. 54:12 If, when the doors are shut, Thou drawest near, 54:17 Only reveal those hands, that side of Thine, 54:22 We know today what wounds are, have no fear, 54:26 Show us Thy Scars, we know the countersign. 54:30 The other gods were strong, but Thou wast weak, 54:34 They rode, but Thou didst stumble to a throne, 54:38 But to our wounds only God's wounds speak, 54:42 And not a god has wounds, but Thou alone. 54:53 Lets us pray. 55:01 Not a God has wounds, oh, God. 55:07 But You alone. 55:13 Please, 55:17 help us to tell the story 55:21 with enough clarity and conviction... 55:29 that you might through that humble retelling, 55:34 target our heart that has not believed yet. 55:39 Holy Father we say, yet, 55:43 because if love is long suffering, 55:47 then we like your love 55:51 can wait 55:55 that through as long suffering expression. 56:00 We might yet 56:03 share the joy of the Father, 56:09 who has created us all, 56:12 in Christ name we thank you. 56:15 Amen. 56:18 I'd like to take a moment here at the end of the service 56:20 to tell you about 56:21 one of the most important groups of people 56:22 that make this ministry possible. 56:26 There are team of people, 56:27 they are not afraid to get down into the thick of life itself, 56:31 which is why you're gonna find them, 56:32 you will find them, moving forward on their knees. 56:35 They are our prayer partners. 56:37 A group of men and women and young adults 56:40 who believe that this humble television ministry 56:43 has been raised up by God for such a time as this, 56:45 and so they pray earnestly 56:46 that God will use the preacher, that God will use me, 56:50 that God will use the countless other volunteers 56:52 to spread the everlasting gospel 56:54 and the word of God 56:55 in ways we could never have imagined before. 56:58 They are the ones who are praying 56:59 that God is gonna open up the hearts of people, 57:03 open up the hearts of viewers 57:04 around the world for the message, 57:06 the critical message for this end time generation. 57:10 And what I like to do is ask you. 57:12 Would you be willing to be a prayer partner with us? 57:15 A prayer partner with New Perceptions. 57:17 You don't have to call the toll free number. 57:18 You don't have to go online to register. 57:20 All I need to know is that you would be willing 57:23 to lift this little ministry up day after day after day. 57:29 Pray that somehow through radio and television and the web, 57:33 God will open up new doors, new regions on earth 57:37 where the everlasting gospel can be proclaimed. 57:40 There is no question, the power of prayer 57:42 has potential to take this ministry to places 57:45 we could never have imagined before. 57:48 So that's it. 57:49 Would you please be willing to partner with me in prayer? 57:52 The times are urgent. 57:54 The need is critical and I hope you will say yes. 57:58 Till we're together next time, 58:00 may the prayer answering God 58:02 accompany you every step of the way. |
Revised 2015-04-09