Hear my humble cry
00:00:27.54\00:00:34.38
While on others Thou art calling
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Do not pass me by.
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This morning, we gonna
spend a little bit of time
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talking with a man name Luca.
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And I'd like to
invite him to come up,
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I'm not gonna to try to
pronounce his, his last name.
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Luca is from Italy, if
I understand correctly.
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So tell us a
little bit about yourself
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and what brought
you here to Andrews?
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Well, good morning, everybody.
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Can you hear me? Yes, yes.
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So yeah, my name is
Luca, my last name--
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last name is pronounced Marulli.
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But don't bother
about, that's fine.
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I'm Italian, and
I'm a pastor as well.
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I've been living in
Italy until I was 24,
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then I got married and
with my wife we went to France,
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to keep studying theology.
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And in 2000, year 2003
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we accepted a call
from the Canadian Conference
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to come to Toronto and
serve Italian church there
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along with another small
English speaking congregation.
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So you've traveled the
world, you're here in Canada,
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you've come
down to United States
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to start school to get
your M.Div what happened?
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What happened is
that we came here my wife,
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my daughter was now 19 month old
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and myself we came
last year mid August
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and so we
settled ourselves here,
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we found a nice place to stay,
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and by the end of the
month we started school.
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And what happens that
after a month mid September,
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I started to feel
little bit awkward,
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my belly was
blowing a little bit
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and I decided to go
to doctor for a check up
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and she thought there may be,
might have had some gal stones
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so I went for a
CT-- for a ultrasound
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and then she called me,
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they after
saying we need to go--
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you need to go for a CT
scan, there's something there,
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so briefly they discovered
that they had quite big mass,
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five inch ball
shape mass on my pancreas.
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And they thought that
I had pancreatic cancer
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which doesn't give you a
lot of hope of surviving,
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so what we did, we had
to schedule for surgery
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and that's what they did,
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and after surgery
the doctor told us
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there is a good
news and a bad news.
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Let's start with the good news.
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The good news is that you don't
have any pancreatic cancer.
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The cancer of the mass is
just sitting on the pancreas
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but it is not attached,
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so it's not growing
out of the pancreas.
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The bad news is that you
have cancer all over your bowels
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and then the PT
scan would reveal that
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you have also some in
your growing chest and neck,
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so was a little
bit spread already.
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Here you are at Andrews,
you've just gotten here,
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you're studying for your M.Div
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and you find
out you have cancer.
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There is an
anointing that happened
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towards the
beginning of your illness.
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That's right.
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Who called for
that and what happened
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and what were you expecting
to come from that anointing.
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The Ontario Conference
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executive
secretary Pastor Bueno,
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whose has been teaching here
at Andrews for number of years,
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so some of you
might know him already.
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We are good friends and
he has been very supportive,
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so he called me
saying you know what,
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we should plan for
an anointing service.
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And they said
that's a great idea
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and he want me to invite people
who were meaningful to me,
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and he suggested also
to invite Pastor Nelson.
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I thought about it
and then I said okay.
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And may be that I
should speak about
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what this service meant to me
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and why I wanted Pastor
Nelson to be also there?
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You know, when you are a pastor,
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you have members that
get sick in your community
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and you do anointing service.
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But when you are--
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when you are the one who is
receiving anointing service,
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your perspective changes a lot.
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It is not a rite any more,
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it is not a moment in which
you try to support somebody
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and get him connected
with God in a special way.
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But to me the
anointing service was--
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I was not expecting
any miracle or any--
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to see any burning bush
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or having any special
manifestation of God's power.
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To me the anointing service
at that very moment meant
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to have people who really
cared about me and my family,
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who showed somehow that
they were caring and that--
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I want around me people
whose prayers were sincere.
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And I wanted Pastor Nelson
because he came to my place
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before I went through surgery,
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before we planned for
the anointing service.
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So he came, he showed
that there is some concern
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and some love
towards our family,
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so he said okay, that's fine.
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He can come.
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Now, now during this
experience you were praying,
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but you weren't praying a prayer
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that many people would pray.
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What was the prayer
that you were praying?
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I know that I
would say, all the people
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who were somehow
interceding for us,
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were praying for my healing,
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I have honestly to say that
I never prayed God to heal me.
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Not because I
didn't want to of course,
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but I felt it inside that
God didn't need to show me
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or to prove me anything.
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I knew He was there, I
knew He was taking care of me
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and so I--
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I rather asked to heal my heart,
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to help me face this situation
with dignity, with strength,
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with a little
bit of humor may be.
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And then the body
know it's something that
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I didn't want my
health to become an idle,
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something that would come
between me and God and saying,
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you know God,
my health is there,
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it's the most
important thing I have on earth.
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It is not.
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There are other things
that are more important.
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And I wouldn't,
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for instance my my
family, my wife and my daughter
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to be strong
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and to don't see me depressed
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or just you know falling apart
but to see me in a good spirit
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and have them
coping with the situation.
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And but the most
meaningful verse to me was
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surely what Jesus said,
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"In this world you gonna
face tribulation and sufferings,
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but just take heart because
I have overcome the world."
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so I was sure that my--
my life was hidden in God
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and I would overcome
the world with Jesus.
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Amen. Amen.
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Now you seem to be in
pretty good health right now,
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you look good.
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Talk a little bit about that?
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Yeah, I--
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after six months of chemo,
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I finally had
in-- on February 14,
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some Valentine's day, a
good news, I was cancer free.
00:08:02.83\00:08:06.63
And it was a
little bit surprising
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because of the
extension of the tumor.
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There is also another side that
I have a high chance of relapse
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but that's fine.
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So I'm very happy,
what I decided to do,
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it's to get involved in
a trial program in Chicago,
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they are testing some new drugs
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that are supposed
to prevent any relapse
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and they are not sure
if the drug works yet so,
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I'll be in this
program for the next two years,
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I've already done almost a year,
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the price for that is I
have to go through CT scan,
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every two months.
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Now from February
on, I have to do this
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for another year
every three months
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and then may be it's
gonna be every six months.
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It's a good amount of x-rays but
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somebody told me
it is not that bad
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compared to what I had so.
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That's fine, so I'm
feeling bad-- good, sorry.
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I'm feeling well.
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But I'm
confident, I live day by day,
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and I'm always grateful to God
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and I try to really
fully enjoy my family,
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that's my priority now.
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I've two last questions for you.
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The first one is, how did
you seek God, in your suffering?
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I never blamed God for
what I was going through.
00:09:27.32\00:09:34.91
I have always understood
that God is not responsible
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for whatever evil
happens in our life
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and I-- I've learned
a great deal about God,
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being with me during that time.
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I usually relegated
God to His transcendence.
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God is there, we are
here, we are sinners,
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whatever happens to us,
you know, is not related to Him
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and somehow He is--
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He is there, He is not here.
00:10:01.65\00:10:03.95
Yes, we have His teaching,
yes, we have His promises,
00:10:03.98\00:10:07.61
but finally we die and we
got sick like everybody else,
00:10:07.64\00:10:10.99
so there is not that--
00:10:11.02\00:10:12.48
not very much room for miracles
00:10:12.51\00:10:15.57
and stuff like that.
00:10:15.60\00:10:17.27
I learned to--
to feel God with me,
00:10:17.30\00:10:20.75
to-- it's is not,
00:10:20.78\00:10:23.93
it's not like a
mystical experience,
00:10:23.96\00:10:25.57
you're just having this
deep feeling of God's presence
00:10:25.60\00:10:30.21
to know that He is there,
that He is suffering with you
00:10:30.24\00:10:33.47
that Jesus became flesh,
00:10:33.50\00:10:37.54
so he could feel,
what I was feeling.
00:10:37.57\00:10:40.13
And to me that
was a great comfort,
00:10:40.16\00:10:42.04
knowing that He
would understand me fully.
00:10:42.07\00:10:45.66
What advice--
00:10:45.69\00:10:46.73
there is many
people that are here today
00:10:46.76\00:10:48.64
listening on the
radio, watching on television.
00:10:48.67\00:10:51.98
What would you say to someone
who is suffering right now?
00:10:52.01\00:10:55.61
What advise would you give them?
00:10:55.64\00:10:57.54
Well, the advice is that...
00:10:57.57\00:11:03.70
I think we have to
become very intentional
00:11:03.73\00:11:07.09
in the way we face our troubles.
00:11:07.12\00:11:12.03
I strongly
believe God has given us
00:11:12.06\00:11:14.62
a spirit of
power of self control
00:11:14.65\00:11:19.65
and we-- it's ours,
00:11:19.68\00:11:21.12
I mean the choice of being
fearful or faithful is ours.
00:11:21.15\00:11:27.33
We are not alone
in taking this choice,
00:11:27.36\00:11:30.22
we have God, we have our family,
00:11:30.25\00:11:32.55
our friends that gather around,
00:11:32.58\00:11:34.92
but we have to be intentional
00:11:34.95\00:11:36.50
in how we decide to face things.
00:11:36.53\00:11:38.83
It doesn't come spontaneously,
00:11:38.86\00:11:41.61
sometimes we have to
learn it the hard way,
00:11:41.64\00:11:44.15
but it's important
to decide to be strong,
00:11:44.18\00:11:50.66
to face everything with
dignity, to give support,
00:11:50.69\00:11:54.04
especially for
others that are not,
00:11:54.07\00:11:56.28
may be affected by the
same illness or problem,
00:11:56.31\00:11:59.33
but they are looking at us
00:11:59.36\00:12:00.69
and they are may be more
shattered that we could be.
00:12:00.72\00:12:03.84
So I think intentionality
00:12:03.87\00:12:05.85
which goes out is very important
00:12:05.88\00:12:07.32
and also a little bit of humor.
00:12:07.35\00:12:09.66
I remember when I--
00:12:09.69\00:12:11.66
after I wake up from
surgery, I was very conscience,
00:12:11.69\00:12:14.90
so when I woke up I
knew exactly where I was
00:12:14.93\00:12:18.55
and who I was,
00:12:18.58\00:12:19.73
and I saw the first face, I
saw was my father in law's face.
00:12:19.76\00:12:23.46
He was kind of
concerned and I opened my eyes,
00:12:23.49\00:12:26.39
I look at him and I
told him who are you?
00:12:26.42\00:12:30.30
And he went like you know,
00:12:30.33\00:12:32.26
then I said just
I'm joking, I'm joking,
00:12:32.29\00:12:34.46
he wanted to choke me,
00:12:34.49\00:12:35.63
but a little bit of
humor you know I think helps.
00:12:35.66\00:12:39.57
Well, Luca, thank
you so much this morning
00:12:39.60\00:12:41.39
for coming and sharing your
story with us and just thing,
00:12:41.42\00:12:44.62
allowing us to learn
a little bit more about
00:12:44.65\00:12:46.10
who you are
00:12:46.13\00:12:47.22
and the experiences you've
been through your suffering.
00:12:47.25\00:12:48.95
Thank you so much. Thank you.
00:12:48.98\00:12:50.55
In my trials
00:12:55.09\00:13:01.40
Lord, walk with me
00:13:01.43\00:13:06.75
In my trials
00:13:09.60\00:13:16.20
Lord, walk with me
00:13:16.23\00:13:22.24
When the shades of
00:13:24.73\00:13:32.22
life are falling
00:13:32.25\00:13:37.25
Lord, I want Jesus
00:13:40.25\00:13:46.75
To walk with me
00:13:46.78\00:13:51.47
In my sorrow
00:13:55.46\00:14:02.19
Lord, walk with me
00:14:02.22\00:14:07.41
In my sorrows
00:14:10.81\00:14:17.38
Lord, walk with me
00:14:17.41\00:14:21.26
When my heart
00:14:26.09\00:14:30.05
Within is aching
00:14:33.87\00:14:39.62
I want Jesus
00:14:41.55\00:14:48.30
To walk with me
00:14:48.33\00:14:52.97
I want Jesus
00:14:57.42\00:15:03.58
To walk with me
00:15:03.61\00:15:08.41
I want Jesus
00:15:12.11\00:15:18.01
To walk with me
00:15:18.04\00:15:23.62
All along my
00:15:26.38\00:15:33.17
Pilgrim journey
00:15:33.20\00:15:40.80
I want Jesus
00:15:40.83\00:15:47.67
To walk with me
00:15:47.70\00:15:52.38
Let's pray.
00:15:58.83\00:16:03.63
Oh, God you have
walked with your children
00:16:03.66\00:16:09.57
through the ages.
00:16:09.60\00:16:13.06
You are walking with Luca.
00:16:13.09\00:16:16.76
We too want
Jesus to walk with us.
00:16:16.79\00:16:23.92
We have to get this
straight, if we're wrong here,
00:16:23.95\00:16:28.82
we're wrong everywhere.
00:16:28.85\00:16:31.34
Make it clear
Your teaching this day,
00:16:31.37\00:16:34.44
we pray in Christ name.
00:16:34.47\00:16:36.49
Amen.
00:16:36.52\00:16:38.66
Frederick Buechner,
00:16:38.69\00:16:41.22
in his book, Magnificent Defeat,
00:16:41.25\00:16:46.75
tells a story that he
believes is parable of our age.
00:16:46.78\00:16:53.03
It's a true story.
00:16:53.06\00:16:58.52
And he puts it this way.
00:16:58.55\00:17:00.22
It is almost too awful to tell:
00:17:00.25\00:17:06.77
about a boy of 12 or 13
00:17:06.80\00:17:08.33
who, in a fit of
crazy anger and depression,
00:17:08.36\00:17:10.74
got hold of a gun somewhere
00:17:10.77\00:17:15.25
and fired it at his father,
00:17:15.28\00:17:18.42
who died not right
away but soon afterward.
00:17:18.45\00:17:23.27
When the authorities asked
the boy why he had done it,
00:17:23.30\00:17:29.05
he said that it was because
he could not stand his father,
00:17:29.08\00:17:34.50
because his father
demanded too much from him,
00:17:34.53\00:17:40.79
because he was always after him,
00:17:40.82\00:17:43.89
because he hated his father.
00:17:43.92\00:17:47.75
And then later on,
00:17:47.78\00:17:48.81
after he had been placed in
a house of detention somewhere,
00:17:48.84\00:17:52.26
a guard was walking down
the corridor late one night
00:17:52.29\00:17:57.94
when he heard
sounds from the boy's room,
00:17:57.97\00:18:00.05
and he stopped to listen.
00:18:00.08\00:18:04.19
The words that he heard the boy
sobbing out in the dark were,
00:18:04.22\00:18:10.97
I want my
father, I want my father.
00:18:11.00\00:18:17.18
When I read that
story, I tell you what,
00:18:17.21\00:18:18.91
it cut me to the quick.
00:18:18.94\00:18:22.58
Have we done the same?
00:18:22.61\00:18:25.20
Have we?
00:18:25.23\00:18:26.71
Our world our society,
have we killed off our father,
00:18:26.74\00:18:34.00
and now we weep for him,
00:18:34.03\00:18:36.61
I want my
father, I want my father.
00:18:36.64\00:18:43.51
Makes you wonder.
00:18:43.54\00:18:48.49
You suppose that's
true of atheism as well.
00:18:48.52\00:18:53.58
Although no doubt I'm
sure atheism would protest it,
00:18:53.61\00:18:57.26
you cannot want
what does not exist.
00:18:57.29\00:19:02.41
But sometimes I wonder if
it does protest too loudly.
00:19:02.44\00:19:07.83
The atheist writer Sam Harris
00:19:10.86\00:19:12.51
in his book "Letter
to a Christian Nation,"
00:19:12.54\00:19:16.27
references the holocaust
where 6 million Jews perished.
00:19:16.30\00:19:22.73
He talks about
the Rwandan Genocide
00:19:22.76\00:19:25.82
where 800,000 perished.
00:19:25.85\00:19:30.56
He references
the smallpox epidemic
00:19:30.59\00:19:34.47
during the 20th century
00:19:34.50\00:19:35.64
where a half a
billion human beings died.
00:19:35.67\00:19:39.86
And then he
drives home his point.
00:19:39.89\00:19:44.77
I need you to catch that point.
00:19:44.80\00:19:46.72
I need you to ponder
it very carefully now.
00:19:46.75\00:19:49.72
Take out your
study guide please.
00:19:49.75\00:19:52.26
In your worship bulletin
today there is a study guide,
00:19:52.29\00:19:54.57
you gonna want
this one take it out,
00:19:54.60\00:19:56.28
if you didn't get
one when you came in
00:19:56.31\00:19:58.27
or several of you came to one
with only one bulletin between,
00:19:58.30\00:20:01.15
you hold your hands up,
00:20:01.18\00:20:02.58
hold your hand up, our ushers
will get it to you right now
00:20:02.61\00:20:04.81
and those of you who
are watching on television
00:20:04.84\00:20:06.97
we are delighted to have you,
00:20:07.00\00:20:08.79
I want you to have
this study guide too.
00:20:08.82\00:20:10.31
You are joining us
in series in process,
00:20:10.34\00:20:12.50
this is a series
called Primetime.
00:20:12.53\00:20:14.06
Let me put it on the
screen for you, Primetime,
00:20:14.09\00:20:16.77
the website is there at
the bottom of the screen
00:20:16.80\00:20:18.52
you see it, www.pmchurch.tv.
00:20:18.55\00:20:23.68
Go to that website,
you're looking for Primetime
00:20:23.71\00:20:25.97
this is part nine,
00:20:26.00\00:20:27.03
so we're nearing
the end of this series,
00:20:27.06\00:20:30.02
but this particular
teachings is entitled
00:20:30.05\00:20:31.95
"Is God to Blame?"
00:20:31.98\00:20:34.31
So look for that title
00:20:34.34\00:20:35.41
and then it says
study guide right there,
00:20:35.44\00:20:37.17
you click on and you
will have the same study guide
00:20:37.20\00:20:39.85
that we are going to
carefully ponder together.
00:20:39.88\00:20:44.25
Because I want to
start out with the words of--
00:20:44.28\00:20:45.80
of the atheist Sam Harris.
00:20:45.83\00:20:47.58
All right, so you
see it right there
00:20:47.61\00:20:48.64
at the top of your study guide,
00:20:48.67\00:20:50.54
everybody get one
up in the balcony?
00:20:50.57\00:20:52.04
How about an overflow?
00:20:52.07\00:20:53.39
Everybody, please ask
the usher for study guide.
00:20:53.42\00:20:56.96
Can't wait though,
got to go, so let's go.
00:20:56.99\00:20:58.84
First quotation Sam
Harris the atheist he writes,
00:20:58.87\00:21:01.83
"Of course, people of all faiths
00:21:01.86\00:21:03.99
regularly assure one another
00:21:04.02\00:21:06.15
that God is not
responsible for human suffering.
00:21:06.18\00:21:09.96
But how else can we
understand the claim
00:21:09.99\00:21:11.68
that God is both omniscient,
that would be all-knowing,
00:21:11.71\00:21:14.16
and omnipotent, all powerful?
00:21:14.19\00:21:16.19
This is the age-old
question of..." Write it down.
00:21:16.22\00:21:19.37
"Theodicy." Write it down.
00:21:19.40\00:21:21.49
"This is the age-old
question of theodicy, of course,
00:21:21.52\00:21:25.36
and we should
consider it solved."
00:21:25.39\00:21:27.00
Harris says, hey, I've already
figured it out, I got it,
00:21:27.03\00:21:29.19
let me tell you how it goes.
00:21:29.22\00:21:30.59
Here he goes.
00:21:30.62\00:21:31.84
"If God exists,
00:21:31.87\00:21:34.07
either He can do nothing to stop
00:21:34.10\00:21:36.10
the most egregious calamities,
00:21:36.13\00:21:38.80
or He does not care to.
00:21:38.83\00:21:41.11
God, therefore, is
either impotent or evil."
00:21:41.14\00:21:44.70
Write that in, He is
either impotent or evil.
00:21:44.73\00:21:47.53
Who wants a God like that?
00:21:47.56\00:21:51.36
Ergo, there is no God.
00:21:51.39\00:21:55.31
Now, just keep your pen moving
00:21:55.34\00:21:56.37
because you need to
understand this word Theodicy,
00:21:56.40\00:21:58.26
it's a Greek compound
word, Theos, God plus dike,
00:21:58.29\00:22:01.54
that's justice,
00:22:01.57\00:22:02.60
it means defending a
good God in an evil world.
00:22:02.63\00:22:07.36
Fill that in.
00:22:07.39\00:22:09.02
Defending a good
God in an evil world.
00:22:09.05\00:22:12.26
Now let's listen to
atheist, Gregory A Boyd,
00:22:12.29\00:22:15.96
this book provided the
titled for this teaching
00:22:15.99\00:22:18.20
"Is God to Blame?"
00:22:18.23\00:22:19.85
Go to amazon.com that will
next week ask for the book,
00:22:19.88\00:22:25.23
a powerful
treatment of theodicy,
00:22:25.26\00:22:27.60
Is God to Blame?
00:22:27.63\00:22:28.66
Gregory A Boyd,
these are his words,
00:22:28.69\00:22:30.04
it's there in your study
guide, put it on the screen.
00:22:30.07\00:22:31.92
"One of the chief problems
00:22:31.95\00:22:33.44
in the Western
philosophical tradition
00:22:33.47\00:22:35.60
is reconciling
the presence of evil
00:22:35.63\00:22:37.68
with an all-good
and all-powerful God.
00:22:37.71\00:22:40.44
The problem, in
a nutshell, is that
00:22:40.47\00:22:42.98
if God is all-powerful, it seems
00:22:43.01\00:22:45.25
he must have the ability
to stop evil if he wants to.
00:22:45.28\00:22:48.09
And if God is all-good,
it seems he would want to.
00:22:48.12\00:22:50.86
Yet evil persists."
00:22:50.89\00:22:53.42
Write it down, evil persists.
00:22:53.45\00:22:55.78
What are we gonna say?
00:22:55.81\00:22:57.47
There isn't one of us here today
00:22:57.50\00:22:58.91
who has not suffered deeply.
00:22:58.94\00:23:00.84
Oh, I think there are probably
a few of us who haven't yet?
00:23:00.87\00:23:03.63
I want to say to
you who are young enough
00:23:03.66\00:23:05.31
not who have suffered deeply,
00:23:05.34\00:23:07.15
don't you
worry, don't you worry,
00:23:07.18\00:23:09.89
thank you, Luca, for that
testimony, don't you worry.
00:23:09.92\00:23:14.14
Your turn will come.
00:23:14.17\00:23:15.78
You can't get out of this life,
00:23:15.81\00:23:18.73
without suffering deeply.
00:23:18.76\00:23:20.64
A friend of mine
years ago sent me a cartoon
00:23:20.67\00:23:22.78
out of the New Yorker magazine.
00:23:22.81\00:23:24.56
It's a picture of a
preacher behind his pulpit
00:23:24.59\00:23:28.02
in his clerical robe,
00:23:28.05\00:23:30.86
he's got his hand up
to his neck and he says
00:23:30.89\00:23:33.31
we have gathered this morning
00:23:33.34\00:23:35.67
because we have
had it up to here.
00:23:35.70\00:23:40.75
There isn't an atheist alive
who hasn't had it up to here.
00:23:40.78\00:23:43.66
There isn't atheist alive
who hasn't had it up to here.
00:23:43.69\00:23:48.65
So what should we
do with the evidence?
00:23:48.68\00:23:53.89
How could there be a God
00:23:53.92\00:23:55.39
with such awful
suffering here below.
00:23:55.42\00:23:58.75
And if there were
God, who would want Him?
00:23:58.78\00:24:05.64
How should this
primetime generation respond?
00:24:05.67\00:24:08.11
I'm talking to
you, prime timers.
00:24:08.14\00:24:11.66
You gonna have to face this.
00:24:11.69\00:24:13.62
This may be the
toughest question you face.
00:24:13.65\00:24:18.67
But I'm depending on
you to tell the story.
00:24:18.70\00:24:23.91
You see there is a story, most
people don't know the story,
00:24:23.94\00:24:27.80
but if you master the
story, you can tell the truth.
00:24:27.83\00:24:32.73
I have faith in God through you.
00:24:32.76\00:24:37.69
We'll tell that truth.
00:24:37.72\00:24:38.77
Before we get to the story,
00:24:38.80\00:24:39.83
I want to share one very short
00:24:39.86\00:24:41.55
and simple line
from Holy Scripture.
00:24:41.58\00:24:43.46
Open your Bible, there is
a pew Bible in front of you
00:24:43.49\00:24:45.56
if you didn't bring a Bible
because you need to see it,
00:24:45.59\00:24:47.45
this is a very short sentence
00:24:47.48\00:24:49.43
but I need you
please to look at it,
00:24:49.46\00:24:51.44
the Book of 1 Corinthians
in the New Testament.
00:24:51.47\00:24:55.24
If you didn't
bring your own Bible,
00:24:55.27\00:24:56.30
the pew Bible's page 774,
00:24:56.33\00:24:59.11
774 find the
Book of 1 Corinthians.
00:24:59.14\00:25:02.16
This is the great love chapter,
of all the Holy Scripture.
00:25:02.19\00:25:07.21
There is no literature quite
like this, 1 Corinthians 13,
00:25:07.24\00:25:12.75
I want to begin in verse 1.
00:25:12.78\00:25:14.38
You see the short sentence
in a moment, can't miss it.
00:25:14.41\00:25:17.07
But let's begin in
verse 1, 1 Corinthians 13.
00:25:17.10\00:25:19.10
By the way I'm in
the New King James today.
00:25:19.13\00:25:20.81
If you grab the pew Bible,
00:25:20.84\00:25:21.87
you'll have the
same translation,
00:25:21.90\00:25:22.93
but any Bible you
have it's fine with me.
00:25:22.96\00:25:25.04
1 Corinthians 13:1,
00:25:25.07\00:25:26.84
"Though I speak with the
tongues of men and of angels,
00:25:26.87\00:25:32.99
but have not love, I
have become sounding brass
00:25:33.02\00:25:35.69
or a clanging cymbal.
00:25:35.72\00:25:37.24
And though I have
the gift of prophecy,
00:25:37.27\00:25:38.87
and understand all
mysteries and all knowledge,
00:25:38.90\00:25:41.27
and though I have all faith, so
that I could remove mountains,
00:25:41.30\00:25:43.90
but have not
love, I am nothing."
00:25:43.93\00:25:45.98
Verse 3, "And though I bestow
all my goods to feed the poor,
00:25:46.01\00:25:49.51
and though I give
my body to be burned,
00:25:49.54\00:25:50.91
but have not love,
it profits me nothing."
00:25:50.94\00:25:53.37
Verse 4,
00:25:53.40\00:25:54.52
"Love suffers long and is kind,
00:25:54.55\00:26:00.87
love does not envy,
love does not parade itself,
00:26:00.90\00:26:03.12
love is not puffed up."
00:26:03.15\00:26:04.78
Hold it right there,
hit the pause button,
00:26:04.81\00:26:06.10
that's as far as we need to go.
00:26:06.13\00:26:07.45
Write it down three
words "Love suffers long."
00:26:07.48\00:26:13.01
Would you write
that down please,
00:26:13.04\00:26:14.35
"Love suffers long."
00:26:14.38\00:26:19.86
The question is how long?
00:26:19.89\00:26:25.17
Any defense of a good God in an
evil world must tell the story.
00:26:25.20\00:26:29.08
So I shared with you
today, memorize it please.
00:26:29.11\00:26:33.35
Once upon a time
00:26:33.38\00:26:36.72
there was a very loving father,
00:26:36.75\00:26:42.11
and a very happy family.
00:26:42.14\00:26:46.99
A very close family composed
of all the father's children,
00:26:47.02\00:26:49.42
some of his
children were angels.
00:26:49.45\00:26:51.45
You can call them
seraphim and call them cherubim,
00:26:51.48\00:26:54.81
they lived directly in
the father's house with him.
00:26:54.84\00:26:57.72
But he had other children
00:26:57.75\00:26:59.75
intelligent
creatures, intelligent beings
00:26:59.78\00:27:03.62
who lived in
little terrestrial planets
00:27:03.65\00:27:06.68
sprawling all over
the father's universe.
00:27:06.71\00:27:11.87
That was a very happy family,
with the very loving father,
00:27:11.90\00:27:15.10
like the father you grew up with
00:27:15.13\00:27:18.36
or perhaps didn't.
00:27:18.39\00:27:23.23
Then one day this father
00:27:23.26\00:27:24.96
held a private council
with his two divine partners
00:27:24.99\00:27:27.80
as the heads of
families often do.
00:27:27.83\00:27:30.20
No children please.
00:27:30.23\00:27:34.88
And in that private council,
00:27:34.91\00:27:37.16
the three determined to create
a new order of intelligent life
00:27:37.19\00:27:42.00
within a tiny solar system
00:27:42.03\00:27:43.54
embedded near
the edge of a galaxy
00:27:43.57\00:27:45.65
called the Milky Way.
00:27:45.68\00:27:50.93
These new race of beings
00:27:50.96\00:27:52.82
will be created in their
image, the father's image
00:27:52.85\00:27:56.98
and will be granted
the power of procreation
00:27:57.01\00:27:59.32
that the angelic
order did not enjoy.
00:27:59.35\00:28:04.61
When the plan was
announced to the family,
00:28:04.64\00:28:07.00
there was great joy
00:28:07.03\00:28:08.87
because all families live
by that adage, don't they?
00:28:08.90\00:28:11.68
The more, the merrier
within limits of course.
00:28:11.71\00:28:18.22
I say there was
great joy, except for one.
00:28:18.25\00:28:25.71
He was the eldest in the family,
00:28:25.74\00:28:27.91
the highest and the
brightest of them all,
00:28:27.94\00:28:32.48
an archangel,
called the son of the dawn.
00:28:32.51\00:28:37.30
Beautiful, handsome, big.
00:28:37.33\00:28:41.89
His latinized name, Lucifer.
00:28:41.92\00:28:47.03
For some mysterious reason
all too familiar now to us
00:28:47.06\00:28:52.92
who are also infected
with the insanity of pride,
00:28:52.95\00:28:56.48
Lucifer was hurt,
00:28:56.51\00:28:58.12
that he had been left out
of so strategic an initiative
00:28:58.15\00:29:02.47
as a creation of a new
order of intelligent life.
00:29:02.50\00:29:08.60
After all he is the
mighty covering cherub,
00:29:08.63\00:29:13.19
he stands the closest
00:29:13.22\00:29:14.76
to the eternal
of all created life,
00:29:14.79\00:29:17.49
next to the throne itself.
00:29:17.52\00:29:23.86
It is an immensely tragic story.
00:29:23.89\00:29:26.78
This story of eventual rebellion
00:29:26.81\00:29:28.82
within the family of the Father.
00:29:28.85\00:29:32.50
How could a perfect home...?
Come on explain this to me.
00:29:32.53\00:29:34.07
How could a
perfect home be shattered
00:29:34.10\00:29:37.22
by a heir to for perfect child.
00:29:37.25\00:29:40.46
How is it possible?
00:29:40.49\00:29:42.71
How can it be explained that
the child you love so dearly
00:29:42.74\00:29:46.47
is able to break
your heart so deeply,
00:29:46.50\00:29:49.01
how does it keep happing?
00:29:49.04\00:29:54.33
And yet, if we
would ever tell the truth
00:29:54.36\00:29:57.09
about a good God
in an evil world,
00:29:57.12\00:29:59.75
if theodicy
would be our mission,
00:29:59.78\00:30:04.26
we have to know the story.
00:30:04.29\00:30:06.36
The story told four passages
from the ancient scripture.
00:30:06.39\00:30:10.68
I want to share those four,
but they're in your study guide,
00:30:10.71\00:30:13.61
these aren't the whole passages,
00:30:13.64\00:30:14.75
I've just summarized in pulling
words out of those passages,
00:30:14.78\00:30:17.93
so that you get the jest.
00:30:17.96\00:30:19.02
Let's start with that first one
00:30:19.05\00:30:20.10
Isaiah 14:12-14, how does it go?
00:30:20.13\00:30:23.71
Here is the summation.
00:30:23.74\00:30:24.78
"How are you
fallen from heaven."
00:30:24.81\00:30:28.64
Whatever this is it's started
in the house of the Father.
00:30:28.67\00:30:32.84
"How are you fallen from heaven,
00:30:32.87\00:30:34.80
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
00:30:34.83\00:30:36.39
For you have said in your heart,
00:30:36.42\00:30:37.76
'I will be like the Most High.'"
00:30:37.79\00:30:40.31
Now, I want you to
try to wrap your puny mind
00:30:40.34\00:30:41.99
around that thought,
00:30:42.02\00:30:43.05
how could a little boy
possibly you serve the position
00:30:43.08\00:30:46.34
and prerogatives
of his own father.
00:30:46.37\00:30:49.10
It is not only
logically impossible,
00:30:49.13\00:30:52.07
it is existentially
insane for the creature
00:30:52.10\00:30:55.65
to wish to become
the one that created,
00:30:55.68\00:30:58.39
you can't do it.
00:30:58.42\00:31:00.59
I suppose you can want?
00:31:00.62\00:31:04.39
And he did.
00:31:04.42\00:31:06.42
Next passage is
Ezekiel 28:12-17,
00:31:06.45\00:31:10.43
"You were the anointed
cherub who covers the throne..."
00:31:10.46\00:31:13.19
leaning right over the throne,
00:31:13.22\00:31:14.89
in the presence of the Almighty.
00:31:14.92\00:31:16.40
"You were the anointed cherub
00:31:16.43\00:31:17.47
who covers the throne on
the holy mountain of God.
00:31:17.50\00:31:19.20
You were perfect in your ways
00:31:19.23\00:31:21.00
from the day you were
created, until iniquity..."
00:31:21.03\00:31:23.83
Write that down.
"Iniquity was found in you.
00:31:23.86\00:31:27.28
And you sinned,
therefore I cast you out."
00:31:27.31\00:31:32.28
I tell you what,
living in a world
00:31:32.31\00:31:33.37
of programmed
obsolescence as you and I do
00:31:33.40\00:31:35.45
where everything
created by manufacturers
00:31:35.48\00:31:38.32
is designed to break
down in a short enough life
00:31:38.35\00:31:41.24
so that you have
to come back for more.
00:31:41.27\00:31:43.61
In a world of
programmed obsolescence,
00:31:43.64\00:31:45.86
it is impossible for us to
imagine a flawless creation.
00:31:45.89\00:31:52.88
Lucifer was without
flaw but he was also free
00:31:52.91\00:31:58.68
and there in lies the mystery
of this tragic, tragic story.
00:31:58.71\00:32:03.78
Jot it down, Revelation
12:7-12, can you believe this.
00:32:03.81\00:32:08.32
"And war broke out in heaven.
00:32:08.35\00:32:12.65
So that serpent of old,
called the Devil and Satan,
00:32:12.68\00:32:15.76
who deceives the whole world,
00:32:15.79\00:32:19.18
was cast to the earth,
and his angels with him.
00:32:19.21\00:32:21.50
Woe to the
inhabitants of the earth!
00:32:21.53\00:32:23.27
For the Devil has come down
to you, having great wrath."
00:32:23.30\00:32:27.82
Great wrath, he is furious.
00:32:27.85\00:32:33.11
By the way I
need to tell you this.
00:32:33.14\00:32:35.29
No sooner was that--
00:32:35.32\00:32:37.09
was that intelligent life form
called the human being created
00:32:37.12\00:32:40.97
on this terrestrial
ball we call home and earth.
00:32:41.00\00:32:43.58
No sooner had that life form
00:32:43.61\00:32:46.74
of intelligence being
created then a voting booth,
00:32:46.77\00:32:49.72
we've just come out, of
something called voting,
00:32:49.75\00:32:52.40
hadn't we?
00:32:52.43\00:32:53.46
A voting booth is established
00:32:53.49\00:32:55.70
and placed in the
garden home of the first two
00:32:55.73\00:32:58.55
of this intelligent race.
00:32:58.58\00:33:00.80
The voting booth is
there for two reasons.
00:33:00.83\00:33:02.92
Number one, it's
an act of fairness
00:33:02.95\00:33:05.07
on the part of the Father
00:33:05.10\00:33:06.82
who says, I'm
not gonna limit you.
00:33:06.85\00:33:09.04
You may have access to
this brand new creation,
00:33:09.07\00:33:13.16
but you may only
have access here,
00:33:13.19\00:33:16.22
you cannot slither
through the garden,
00:33:16.25\00:33:18.14
only in one place
will I put that booth,
00:33:18.17\00:33:22.07
in fairness to the rebel.
00:33:22.10\00:33:24.84
You may try to woo their vote,
00:33:24.87\00:33:27.54
but there is a
second reason it's there.
00:33:27.57\00:33:30.65
All the universe wishes to know,
00:33:30.68\00:33:32.14
will this new life
form stay with the Father?
00:33:32.17\00:33:38.40
And so Adam and
Eve are instructed,
00:33:38.43\00:33:39.55
you are safe in this garden.
00:33:39.58\00:33:41.11
There is only one
place you must not go.
00:33:41.14\00:33:43.53
It's a voting booth,
00:33:43.56\00:33:44.61
if you step into that
place and pull the lever,
00:33:44.64\00:33:48.72
you have voted for the
fallen one, and it's over.
00:33:48.75\00:33:55.12
Woe to you earth, for the
devil has come down to you.
00:33:55.15\00:33:59.22
Final passage, Genesis 3:1-15
00:33:59.25\00:34:02.39
that summarize it with
these words, then the spirit,
00:34:02.42\00:34:05.54
"Then the serpent
rather said to the woman,
00:34:05.57\00:34:08.88
'Has God indeed said, 'You
shall not eat of every tree?'
00:34:08.91\00:34:12.58
You will not surely die.
00:34:12.61\00:34:16.19
For God knows that in
the day you eat of this tree,
00:34:16.22\00:34:19.56
you will be just like God."
00:34:19.59\00:34:22.00
The original sin is now
sown on the original planet.
00:34:22.03\00:34:28.24
You'll be like God.
00:34:28.27\00:34:30.07
"So she took of its fruit and
also gave of it to her husband.
00:34:30.10\00:34:34.81
And they hid themselves
00:34:34.84\00:34:36.89
from the
presence of the Lord God."
00:34:36.92\00:34:41.83
Try to picture
that moment if we can.
00:34:41.86\00:34:45.91
Having just come
out of a hard fought,
00:34:45.94\00:34:48.00
hotly contested
presidential election.
00:34:48.03\00:34:50.96
We all know, we all
know, that in every election
00:34:50.99\00:34:55.11
there is a winner
and there is a loser,
00:34:55.14\00:34:57.40
and no matter how you voted
00:34:57.43\00:34:59.08
even if you
voted for the winner,
00:34:59.11\00:35:00.96
when the looser makes
his concession speech,
00:35:00.99\00:35:04.73
you can only imagine
00:35:04.76\00:35:06.98
the awful sense of
rejection in that heart.
00:35:07.01\00:35:13.87
Imagine how the
father felt that day in Eden,
00:35:13.90\00:35:18.66
when they tabulated the
balance, and it's two zero.
00:35:18.69\00:35:25.98
They're going with Lucifer.
00:35:26.01\00:35:30.34
C. S. Lewis was
an atheist, brilliant
00:35:30.37\00:35:36.82
and he read the Bible and
eventually became a Christian.
00:35:36.85\00:35:41.31
In his classic apologist--
00:35:41.34\00:35:43.01
his classic apology
called Mere Christianity,
00:35:43.04\00:35:46.06
C. S. Lewis by the
way an atheist became
00:35:46.09\00:35:47.95
probably the most brilliant
apologist of the 20th century,
00:35:47.98\00:35:51.10
in his classic
defense of the Christian faith
00:35:51.13\00:35:53.56
called Mere Christianity
he makes this point.
00:35:53.59\00:35:57.46
Put it on the screen,
it's there in your study guide.
00:35:57.49\00:35:59.21
"One of the
things that surprised me
00:35:59.24\00:36:01.29
when I first read the
New Testament seriously
00:36:01.32\00:36:04.75
was that it talked so much
00:36:04.78\00:36:06.19
about a Dark
Power in the universe,
00:36:06.22\00:36:08.29
a mighty evil spirit
who was held to be the Power
00:36:08.32\00:36:10.98
behind death and
disease, and sin.
00:36:11.01\00:36:13.23
Christianity thinks this
Dark Power was created by God,
00:36:13.26\00:36:16.15
and was good when he
was created, and went wrong.
00:36:16.18\00:36:18.70
Christianity agrees with Dualism
00:36:18.73\00:36:20.98
that this universe is at war."
00:36:21.01\00:36:22.75
Dualism is a form of philosophy
00:36:22.78\00:36:24.16
that suggest, no, we actually
have two eternal powers,
00:36:24.19\00:36:26.66
one is eternally good and
the other is eternally evil
00:36:26.69\00:36:29.16
and all of history is
the conflict of these two.
00:36:29.19\00:36:31.77
Christianity says, oh, you are
right the universe is at war,
00:36:31.80\00:36:34.69
but it's not
because they are equal.
00:36:34.72\00:36:37.59
Christianity does
not think this is a war
00:36:37.62\00:36:39.60
between independent
powers, write it down,
00:36:39.63\00:36:41.94
"It thinks it is a
civil war, a rebellion,
00:36:41.97\00:36:48.27
and that we are living
in a part of the universe
00:36:48.30\00:36:51.24
occupied by the rebel."
00:36:51.27\00:36:54.26
And there was war in heaven
and there is now war on earth,
00:36:54.29\00:36:59.98
and the pictures of the bloody
and evil carnage are written
00:37:00.01\00:37:04.30
large across the canvas
of this earth's history.
00:37:04.33\00:37:08.96
"Love suffers long."
00:37:17.97\00:37:22.87
Now look, the story that
we are sharing right now.
00:37:26.75\00:37:31.27
If the story is true,
00:37:31.30\00:37:35.20
that Lucifer
rebelled against his Father
00:37:35.23\00:37:37.59
and shattered the
peaceful tranquility of heaven
00:37:37.62\00:37:39.58
and then deceived
the fledgling human race
00:37:39.61\00:37:42.13
into joining him
in his rebellion.
00:37:42.16\00:37:43.89
Here's the
question, write it down.
00:37:43.92\00:37:45.19
Why didn't God just
go out and shoot him?
00:37:45.22\00:37:48.28
Get it over with.
00:37:48.31\00:37:54.44
Who can forget this--
00:37:54.47\00:37:56.57
this emotive photograph
from the Vietnam War years ago,
00:37:56.60\00:38:01.65
and if you are baby
boomer you know this photograph,
00:38:01.68\00:38:03.75
where I suspected Viet Cong
00:38:03.78\00:38:05.65
collaborators taken out
of the streets of Saigon
00:38:05.68\00:38:08.23
and summarily executed.
00:38:08.26\00:38:14.36
I mean what if God
had summarily executed
00:38:14.39\00:38:16.21
his eldest
child in the same way.
00:38:16.24\00:38:17.40
And you know, why?
00:38:17.43\00:38:18.46
You had God
throwing Adam and Eve.
00:38:18.49\00:38:19.81
Let just get this
whole mess over with.
00:38:19.84\00:38:23.29
Then the universe could
have returned to peace again
00:38:23.32\00:38:27.35
happy days, hallelujah.
00:38:27.38\00:38:29.51
Are here again,
00:38:29.54\00:38:30.85
there'd be no more
trouble in the universe, right?
00:38:30.88\00:38:33.99
Wrong.
00:38:34.02\00:38:36.04
You're bright enough, we
are bright enough to know,
00:38:36.07\00:38:40.00
it cannot be, in
fact jot this down.
00:38:40.03\00:38:43.04
"Because the great and
compelling truth about Love
00:38:43.07\00:38:49.81
is that in order for it be love,
00:38:49.84\00:38:51.25
it must not only grant
you the right to say yes
00:38:51.28\00:38:53.24
it must also grant and
give you the right to say no
00:38:53.27\00:38:57.58
otherwise it is
not Love, it is force."
00:38:57.61\00:39:02.12
God could not execute Lucifer,
it would have been force.
00:39:02.15\00:39:05.79
And jot this down.
00:39:05.82\00:39:06.86
"A universe of force
is a universe of fear."
00:39:06.89\00:39:12.30
Gregory Boyd is
absolutely right.
00:39:12.33\00:39:13.89
You see that
sentence in your study guide.
00:39:13.92\00:39:15.59
"If love is the end, freedom
must be the means to that end."
00:39:15.62\00:39:21.43
So, ladies and gentlemen,
00:39:21.46\00:39:22.52
a loving God has
absolutely no choice,
00:39:22.55\00:39:25.09
He has to let
this awful rebellion
00:39:25.12\00:39:28.21
play out to its tragic end.
00:39:28.24\00:39:36.14
Otherwise he risks rebellion
00:39:36.17\00:39:40.90
age after age after age,
00:39:40.93\00:39:47.25
there's a fascinating--
00:39:47.28\00:39:49.91
I'm looking forward
to sharing this with you.
00:39:49.94\00:39:51.59
a fascinating angle
that I've never seen before,
00:39:51.62\00:39:54.37
in this question of free choice,
00:39:54.40\00:39:56.08
that Gregory Boyd
brings out in his book,
00:39:56.11\00:39:57.99
Is God to Blame?
00:39:58.02\00:39:59.31
And it's in your study guide,
just get the first line down
00:39:59.34\00:40:01.48
and then I'm
gonna tell you the rest.
00:40:01.51\00:40:03.44
It's called the theory
of chaos, the chaos theory.
00:40:03.47\00:40:06.31
Jot this down.
00:40:06.34\00:40:07.75
"A recent development
in science, chaos theory,
00:40:07.78\00:40:10.34
highlights the interconnected
complexity of life
00:40:10.37\00:40:13.21
and the impossibility of our
00:40:13.24\00:40:14.69
ever exhaustively
comprehending it."
00:40:14.72\00:40:17.87
So did you write that
down, it's called chaos theory.
00:40:17.90\00:40:19.89
Now let me tell you,
what this chaos theory is,
00:40:19.92\00:40:22.16
and I'm not a scientist,
but here is the thought.
00:40:22.19\00:40:24.86
Apparently nature is
so intricately interwoven
00:40:24.89\00:40:32.85
that an interference of
the process of nature here
00:40:32.88\00:40:40.04
can eventually create an
affect in nature over here,
00:40:40.07\00:40:44.95
and the scientist call
it the butterfly effect.
00:40:44.98\00:40:46.72
And here is the illustration.
00:40:46.75\00:40:49.00
A butterfly in Brazil...
Any of you from Brazil?
00:40:49.03\00:40:52.02
A butterfly in
Brazil flaps its wing,
00:40:52.05\00:40:57.29
and just by the
movement of the atoms of air
00:40:57.32\00:41:01.70
that choice spills
and spills and spills
00:41:01.73\00:41:08.42
until a hurricane is created
from the butterfly's wing.
00:41:08.45\00:41:14.52
A hurricane in the Caribbean.
00:41:14.55\00:41:18.50
The intricate
connection of a complex process,
00:41:18.53\00:41:26.44
where the variations in
that process at one point
00:41:26.47\00:41:29.61
affect the
process in another point.
00:41:29.64\00:41:33.68
In fact we can
illustrate it this way.
00:41:33.71\00:41:37.35
Everybody loves the placid pond,
00:41:37.38\00:41:38.81
and when you see a placid pond
00:41:38.84\00:41:40.38
then the first
instinct is to reach down
00:41:40.41\00:41:43.28
and grab a little pebble
00:41:43.31\00:41:44.93
and throw that pebble
out on to those glassy,
00:41:44.96\00:41:49.72
that glassy surface.
00:41:49.75\00:41:51.08
What happens when the
pebble splashes? What happens?
00:41:51.11\00:41:54.59
It creates a ripple. And
a ripple, isn't that right?
00:41:54.62\00:41:56.50
Little conceptive ripples,
and ripples, and ripples,
00:41:56.53\00:41:58.01
and by the way that pond
where a 1,000 miles across
00:41:58.04\00:42:01.13
those ripples would go for a
1000 miles can't see them now,
00:42:01.16\00:42:04.77
but they just keep
going, isn't that true?
00:42:04.80\00:42:07.43
And by the way, if
you throw a pebble in
00:42:07.46\00:42:08.81
and you get those ripples
00:42:08.84\00:42:09.89
and I'm on the
other side of the pond,
00:42:09.92\00:42:10.98
and I then throw in my
pebble and it creates ripples,
00:42:11.01\00:42:13.96
you get a matrix of ripples
00:42:13.99\00:42:15.73
because my ripples
were bump into yours
00:42:15.76\00:42:17.64
and create a third set,
00:42:17.67\00:42:18.99
a whole new
combination and they bump in
00:42:19.02\00:42:20.86
and you see how it goes.
00:42:20.89\00:42:24.59
Our free choice, is
like that pebble in a pond.
00:42:24.62\00:42:30.58
So a man one day, goes
into a bar free choice,
00:42:30.61\00:42:35.33
wrong choice by
the way, but free.
00:42:35.36\00:42:38.51
He goes into a
bar, he orders a drink
00:42:38.54\00:42:41.62
wrong choice but free choice,
00:42:41.65\00:42:43.89
he orders more than one drink
until finally he is inebriated,
00:42:43.92\00:42:47.67
free choice, free
choice, free choice.
00:42:47.70\00:42:49.68
Finally he pushes
away from the counter,
00:42:49.71\00:42:52.01
stumbles back to the parking lot
00:42:52.04\00:42:53.61
and gets into
his car free choice,
00:42:53.64\00:42:55.95
inebriated he drive
down the road free choice,
00:42:55.98\00:42:59.48
losing control of his mind,
00:42:59.51\00:43:00.88
he crosses the
central line free choice
00:43:00.91\00:43:03.93
and slams into an automobile
00:43:03.96\00:43:09.38
carrying a mother and
two children, free choice
00:43:09.41\00:43:12.17
all three are instantly slain.
00:43:12.20\00:43:16.30
Innocent victims of a
series of free choices.
00:43:16.33\00:43:24.21
You say, come on Dwight,
you know, we really need to do,
00:43:24.24\00:43:26.24
as we need to--
00:43:26.27\00:43:27.32
we need to limit
that man's free choices
00:43:27.35\00:43:29.05
before he gets into
that kind of trouble.
00:43:29.08\00:43:30.69
Ladies and gentlemen,
00:43:30.72\00:43:31.79
may I remind you that to
deny the man those free choices
00:43:31.82\00:43:34.45
ahead of time would be to
incarcerate him all the time.
00:43:34.48\00:43:38.51
And God is not
willing to pay that price.
00:43:38.54\00:43:40.67
I will have to let
the free choices go.
00:43:40.70\00:43:43.94
I'm sorry, you got
caught in the matrix.
00:43:43.97\00:43:50.08
Free choice, love suffers long.
00:43:50.11\00:43:57.73
Boyd goes on, jot this down.
00:43:57.76\00:44:00.20
"Because love requires choice,
00:44:00.23\00:44:02.57
humans and angels have the power
00:44:02.60\00:44:03.77
to affect others
for better or for worse.
00:44:03.80\00:44:05.60
Indeed, every decision we make
00:44:05.63\00:44:06.95
affects other
agents in some measure.
00:44:06.98\00:44:09.33
We are the heirs
to an incomprehensibly
00:44:09.36\00:44:11.97
vast array of human, angelic,
00:44:12.00\00:44:14.32
and natural
ripples throughout history
00:44:14.35\00:44:16.46
about which we
know next to nothing
00:44:16.49\00:44:18.50
but which nevertheless
00:44:18.53\00:44:19.69
significantly affect our lives."
00:44:19.72\00:44:23.07
Ladies and gentlemen,
let's be clear about this.
00:44:23.10\00:44:25.03
All human suffering is not the
consequence of personal choice.
00:44:25.06\00:44:31.37
Two Sundays ago, a
dear friend of mine died,
00:44:31.40\00:44:36.10
bright, gifted
church administrator,
00:44:36.13\00:44:41.10
husband, father,
00:44:41.13\00:44:43.48
young grandfather, 61 years old.
00:44:43.51\00:44:46.79
Do you think my
friend Jerry Potzer,
00:44:46.82\00:44:50.18
chose the cancer that
cut him down in the end.
00:44:50.21\00:44:56.01
Of course not.
00:44:56.04\00:44:57.76
All human suffering is not the
consequence of personal choice,
00:44:57.79\00:45:01.43
but all suffering
is the consequence
00:45:01.46\00:45:04.08
of free choices.
00:45:04.11\00:45:07.47
Free choices, a
series of concentric ripples
00:45:07.50\00:45:10.64
that the Bible traces back
to the source of all chaos,
00:45:10.67\00:45:13.58
the source of all
suffering human and creature
00:45:13.61\00:45:15.78
that darken fallen archangel,
00:45:15.81\00:45:17.46
that the Hebrew
calls the adversary,
00:45:17.49\00:45:19.11
in the Hebrew Satan,
00:45:19.14\00:45:21.10
we call him Satan, that one.
00:45:21.13\00:45:25.76
Because of his free choice,
00:45:25.79\00:45:27.51
rejects the father's
love and plunges himself--
00:45:27.54\00:45:30.93
not only himself,
00:45:30.96\00:45:32.25
but the entire household
of the Father in the heaven
00:45:32.28\00:45:35.44
and on earth
00:45:35.47\00:45:37.30
into incomprehensible suffering.
00:45:37.33\00:45:44.56
Gregory Boyd writes,
"Though we can't know the 'why'
00:45:44.59\00:45:48.46
of any particular
instance of suffering,
00:45:48.49\00:45:50.17
we can and must know
00:45:50.20\00:45:51.61
that our whole
environment is under siege,
00:45:51.64\00:45:56.15
under siege by forces that
hate God and all that is good."
00:45:56.18\00:46:02.38
By the way, it's for that
reason ladies and gentlemen,
00:46:02.41\00:46:03.96
that we live today
with hospices and hospitals.
00:46:03.99\00:46:07.03
Ever heard of those?
00:46:07.06\00:46:08.91
We live today with divorce
court and penitentiaries.
00:46:08.94\00:46:15.13
We live today with
mortuaries and cemeteries.
00:46:15.16\00:46:19.39
We live today
with sexual perversions
00:46:19.42\00:46:21.34
and moral dysfunctions,
00:46:21.37\00:46:23.97
because of that free
choice, we live today.
00:46:24.00\00:46:29.25
The hearts that are
broken, minds that are broken,
00:46:29.28\00:46:33.53
bodies that are broken,
an entire creation broke.
00:46:33.56\00:46:39.20
Because once upon a time,
00:46:39.23\00:46:42.02
a pebble was dropped in
the water of free choice,
00:46:42.05\00:46:47.57
and the ripples still go on.
00:46:47.60\00:46:51.75
The demonic angel,
00:46:57.69\00:47:02.61
who has wroth this bloody and
baleful harvest on this planet.
00:47:02.64\00:47:07.22
Is really rather
brilliant and I got--
00:47:07.25\00:47:09.09
I got to share this
with you before I sit down.
00:47:09.12\00:47:10.61
He is brilliant.
00:47:10.64\00:47:12.88
He has come up with the cocktail
00:47:12.91\00:47:16.35
of three multiple
choice questions, brilliant.
00:47:16.38\00:47:20.04
It doesn't matter, who--
00:47:20.07\00:47:21.16
it doesn't matter
to him who you are?
00:47:21.19\00:47:22.67
Let's say you are a believer,
00:47:22.70\00:47:24.65
so his deception
for you is blame God.
00:47:24.68\00:47:30.92
Oh, look what's happening to me.
00:47:30.95\00:47:32.47
How could God do this to me?
00:47:32.50\00:47:34.14
How could He do this to us?
00:47:34.17\00:47:36.35
Blame God.
00:47:36.38\00:47:39.08
It reminds me of an
arsonist who torches the house,
00:47:39.11\00:47:42.62
stands in the
middle of the flames
00:47:42.65\00:47:44.19
and then points up
and says he did it.
00:47:44.22\00:47:47.82
Okay, it's a
cocktail of deceptions.
00:47:47.85\00:47:50.02
Deception one is for
those who believe, blame God.
00:47:50.05\00:47:52.19
Deception two is for those
who do not believe, no God.
00:47:52.22\00:47:56.53
No, God.
00:47:56.56\00:47:57.59
This is just the brutal reaping
of random natural chance--
00:47:57.62\00:48:04.07
I'm sorry, it ends this way,
you're stuck on this planet,
00:48:04.10\00:48:08.15
you had the luck
to be born, no God.
00:48:08.18\00:48:13.20
Now most people
stop right there,
00:48:13.23\00:48:15.86
but this cocktail is so
potent, there is a third option.
00:48:15.89\00:48:20.40
He doesn't want you
to know the third option.
00:48:20.43\00:48:23.12
If He can get the second
deception clear in your mind,
00:48:23.15\00:48:26.78
you ipso facto have
to embrace the third one,
00:48:26.81\00:48:29.51
though you don't think about it,
00:48:29.54\00:48:30.76
and the third one is
this, no God, no devil.
00:48:30.79\00:48:34.70
There is no devil.
00:48:34.73\00:48:37.01
There is no devil, you can't--
00:48:37.04\00:48:40.08
you can't just
blame this on some
00:48:40.11\00:48:42.54
impute red horns
and a pitch fork tail.
00:48:42.57\00:48:45.57
There is no devil. You
are too smart for that.
00:48:45.60\00:48:49.85
Why does he want no devil?
00:48:49.88\00:48:52.45
Because if man has
no God, and no devil,
00:48:52.48\00:48:56.88
man becomes his own God
00:48:56.91\00:49:00.24
and his own worst enemy.
00:49:00.27\00:49:05.15
Deadly cocktail,
00:49:05.18\00:49:07.05
take all three,
take one, take two,
00:49:07.08\00:49:10.24
it doesn't matter to the
brilliant, genius of evil.
00:49:10.27\00:49:14.81
That Jesus
nailed without apology,
00:49:14.84\00:49:17.29
when He spoke these words
in Mathew 13, write them down,
00:49:17.32\00:49:19.93
"An enemy has done this."
00:49:19.96\00:49:24.25
This is the work of an enemy.
00:49:24.28\00:49:27.18
This is the work of an enemy.
00:49:27.21\00:49:30.44
And all the while
love suffers long.
00:49:30.47\00:49:36.80
How long?
00:49:36.83\00:49:39.64
Ask that with the God,
who died on the middle cross,
00:49:39.67\00:49:41.85
you got an argument?
00:49:41.88\00:49:43.81
You ask that with the God
who died on the middle cross,
00:49:43.84\00:49:45.89
ask Him how long love
is supposed to suffer?
00:49:45.92\00:49:48.21
Ask Him how deep
is the suffering?
00:49:48.24\00:49:50.47
Go to the God on
the centre cross,
00:49:50.50\00:49:54.79
and enquire, how can this be?
00:49:54.82\00:49:59.46
A 100 years ago, a
little classic called Education,
00:49:59.49\00:50:03.80
the words are in
your study guide,
00:50:03.83\00:50:04.88
I put it on the
screen for you as well.
00:50:04.91\00:50:07.76
"Few give
thought to the suffering
00:50:07.79\00:50:09.61
that sin has caused our Creator.
00:50:09.64\00:50:13.01
All heaven
suffered in Christ's agony,
00:50:13.04\00:50:15.18
but that suffering
did not begin or end
00:50:15.21\00:50:16.99
with his
manifestation in humanity."
00:50:17.02\00:50:18.87
He didn't start when he became
a baby and end when He rose.
00:50:18.90\00:50:21.67
Are you kidding?
00:50:21.70\00:50:22.79
The line, the next line,
00:50:22.82\00:50:24.05
"The cross is a revelation
to our dull senses of the pain
00:50:24.08\00:50:27.84
that, from its very inception,
00:50:27.87\00:50:29.53
sin has brought
to the heart of God."
00:50:29.56\00:50:32.57
He has been suffering
and suffering and suffering,
00:50:32.60\00:50:38.22
"As the whole creation groans
and travails in pain together,
00:50:38.25\00:50:41.99
the heart of the infinite Father
00:50:42.02\00:50:44.47
is pained in sympathy."
00:50:44.50\00:50:47.53
Never forget it,
love suffers long.
00:50:47.56\00:50:54.38
I know it's not--
00:50:54.41\00:50:55.49
I know it doesn't make a sense,
00:50:55.52\00:50:57.16
a weight of sense to an atheist?
00:50:57.19\00:51:00.20
And I must confess to you
00:51:00.23\00:51:01.35
that it barely
makes sense to atheist.
00:51:01.38\00:51:04.14
This idea of the
God of the universe,
00:51:04.17\00:51:08.42
on that center cross,
00:51:08.45\00:51:10.13
and eternally sacrificing
Himself for a rebel race,
00:51:10.16\00:51:15.47
it makes no sense at all.
00:51:15.50\00:51:22.18
But if you ever--
00:51:22.21\00:51:23.60
if you ever engage in theodicy,
00:51:23.63\00:51:27.55
you cannot leave
the story of Calvary.
00:51:27.58\00:51:34.82
Out of that exchange.
00:51:34.85\00:51:40.01
God is forever changed,
00:51:40.04\00:51:43.41
He will never again be the same.
00:51:43.44\00:51:47.11
He's bound to the
heart of a planet,
00:51:47.14\00:51:52.09
that has suffered long itself.
00:51:52.12\00:51:57.62
Love suffers long.
00:51:57.65\00:52:03.27
And it will
continue to suffer long
00:52:03.30\00:52:05.82
until the last
free choice is made.
00:52:05.85\00:52:08.57
And by the way,
may I remind you this,
00:52:08.60\00:52:10.54
the ultimate free
choice in the universe
00:52:10.57\00:52:13.08
was the choice
of God to come down.
00:52:13.11\00:52:19.62
Not just suffer with us,
not just suffer because of us,
00:52:19.65\00:52:27.51
but to suffer for us.
00:52:27.54\00:52:31.72
So that by believing in Him
00:52:31.75\00:52:35.24
we who were born
atheists, born without hope,
00:52:35.27\00:52:41.55
born without promise,
00:52:41.58\00:52:44.02
born with only
despair our final end.
00:52:44.05\00:52:48.88
So that because of Him,
00:52:48.91\00:52:53.54
we might believe and
live in His family one day,
00:52:53.57\00:53:00.28
forever and ever.
00:53:00.31\00:53:03.49
Amen.
00:53:03.52\00:53:06.90
I want to read you a poem,
00:53:06.93\00:53:11.07
written after the
carnage of the First World War
00:53:11.10\00:53:13.59
by one who experienced it,
00:53:13.62\00:53:15.93
an English man
named Edward Shillito.
00:53:15.96\00:53:21.52
He was meditating one day after
the awful war end all wars,
00:53:21.55\00:53:27.25
and he was reading the story
about the resurrected Christ
00:53:27.28\00:53:29.92
revealing
Himself to His disciples
00:53:29.95\00:53:31.74
by showing them his wounds.
00:53:31.77\00:53:34.48
And so he wrote this poem
00:53:34.51\00:53:37.04
entitled that The Jesus
of the Scars, here it is
00:53:37.07\00:53:43.27
If we have never
sought, we seek Thee now,
00:53:43.30\00:53:47.74
Thine eyes burn through
the dark, our only stars,
00:53:47.77\00:53:51.66
We must have sight of
thorn-marks on Thy brow,
00:53:51.69\00:53:56.93
We must have Thee,
O Jesus of the Scars.
00:53:56.96\00:54:01.11
The heavens frighten
us, they are too calm,
00:54:01.14\00:54:03.63
In all the
universe we have no place.
00:54:03.66\00:54:05.83
Our wounds are
hurting us, where is the balm?
00:54:05.86\00:54:08.20
Lord Jesus, by Thy
Scars, we know Thy grace.
00:54:08.23\00:54:12.82
If, when the doors are
shut, Thou drawest near,
00:54:12.85\00:54:17.48
Only reveal those
hands, that side of Thine,
00:54:17.51\00:54:22.87
We know today what
wounds are, have no fear,
00:54:22.90\00:54:26.58
Show us Thy Scars,
we know the countersign.
00:54:26.61\00:54:30.66
The other gods were
strong, but Thou wast weak,
00:54:30.69\00:54:34.25
They rode, but Thou
didst stumble to a throne,
00:54:34.28\00:54:38.29
But to our wounds
only God's wounds speak,
00:54:38.32\00:54:42.95
And not a god has
wounds, but Thou alone.
00:54:42.98\00:54:49.40
Lets us pray.
00:54:53.86\00:55:01.81
Not a God has wounds, oh, God.
00:55:01.84\00:55:07.65
But You alone.
00:55:07.68\00:55:13.07
Please,
00:55:13.10\00:55:16.97
help us to tell the story
00:55:17.00\00:55:21.64
with enough
clarity and conviction...
00:55:21.67\00:55:26.25
that you might
through that humble retelling,
00:55:29.78\00:55:34.68
target our heart
that has not believed yet.
00:55:34.71\00:55:39.73
Holy Father we say, yet,
00:55:39.76\00:55:43.09
because if love
is long suffering,
00:55:43.12\00:55:47.65
then we like your love
00:55:47.68\00:55:51.60
can wait
00:55:51.63\00:55:55.93
that through as long
suffering expression.
00:55:55.96\00:56:00.03
We might yet
00:56:00.06\00:56:03.93
share the joy of the Father,
00:56:03.96\00:56:09.05
who has created us all,
00:56:09.08\00:56:12.17
in Christ name we thank you.
00:56:12.20\00:56:15.73
Amen.
00:56:15.76\00:56:18.40
I'd like to take a moment
here at the end of the service
00:56:18.43\00:56:19.98
to tell you about
00:56:20.01\00:56:21.04
one of the most
important groups of people
00:56:21.07\00:56:22.88
that make this
ministry possible.
00:56:22.91\00:56:25.98
There are team of people,
00:56:26.01\00:56:27.40
they are not afraid to get down
into the thick of life itself,
00:56:27.43\00:56:31.15
which is why
you're gonna find them,
00:56:31.18\00:56:32.27
you will find them,
moving forward on their knees.
00:56:32.30\00:56:35.57
They are our prayer partners.
00:56:35.60\00:56:37.05
A group of men and
women and young adults
00:56:37.08\00:56:40.00
who believe that this
humble television ministry
00:56:40.03\00:56:43.36
has been raised up by
God for such a time as this,
00:56:43.39\00:56:45.83
and so they pray earnestly
00:56:45.86\00:56:46.89
that God will use the
preacher, that God will use me,
00:56:46.92\00:56:50.06
that God will use the
countless other volunteers
00:56:50.09\00:56:52.79
to spread the everlasting gospel
00:56:52.82\00:56:54.69
and the word of God
00:56:54.72\00:56:55.75
in ways we could
never have imagined before.
00:56:55.78\00:56:58.24
They are the
ones who are praying
00:56:58.27\00:56:59.85
that God is gonna open
up the hearts of people,
00:56:59.88\00:57:03.00
open up the hearts of viewers
00:57:03.03\00:57:04.57
around the
world for the message,
00:57:04.60\00:57:06.58
the critical message for
this end time generation.
00:57:06.61\00:57:10.33
And what I like
to do is ask you.
00:57:10.36\00:57:12.81
Would you be willing to
be a prayer partner with us?
00:57:12.84\00:57:15.59
A prayer partner
with New Perceptions.
00:57:15.62\00:57:17.26
You don't have to
call the toll free number.
00:57:17.29\00:57:18.96
You don't have to
go online to register.
00:57:18.99\00:57:20.95
All I need to know is
that you would be willing
00:57:20.98\00:57:23.75
to lift this little ministry
up day after day after day.
00:57:23.78\00:57:29.42
Pray that somehow through radio
and television and the web,
00:57:29.45\00:57:33.38
God will open up new
doors, new regions on earth
00:57:33.41\00:57:37.89
where the everlasting
gospel can be proclaimed.
00:57:37.92\00:57:40.34
There is no
question, the power of prayer
00:57:40.37\00:57:42.93
has potential to take
this ministry to places
00:57:42.96\00:57:45.23
we could never
have imagined before.
00:57:45.26\00:57:47.97
So that's it.
00:57:48.00\00:57:49.19
Would you please be willing
to partner with me in prayer?
00:57:49.22\00:57:52.75
The times are urgent.
00:57:52.78\00:57:54.51
The need is critical
and I hope you will say yes.
00:57:54.54\00:57:58.17
Till we're together next time,
00:57:58.20\00:58:00.55
may the prayer answering God
00:58:00.58\00:58:02.50
accompany you
every step of the way.
00:58:02.53\00:58:05.33