This is 3ABN Now
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with John and
Rosemary Malkiewtcz.
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Hello and welcome to 3ABN Now.
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You know, I'm really glad
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that we have viewers
right across Australia,
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right around the world,
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even as far as
Africa and England
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and all those countries.
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Cayman Islands
and all those places.
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Wherever this signal goes,
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we want to give
you a special welcome,
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but especially
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those in
Australia who watch on VAST.
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Hope you're
enjoying these programs.
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And today is a special program
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and that it's a friend
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that I've known
for many, many years.
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And he left this
beautiful land of Australia
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to go across to Africa.
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And some people may say,
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"Well, Africa is a
beautiful country too."
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And it is and he's
going to be sharing...
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Not a country, a
continent. It's continent.
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That's right.
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And he'll be sharing with
us his experience in Botswana,
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which is north of South Africa.
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His name is Barry Chapman
and his family went there.
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How many years ago, Barry?
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We left in the July of 1989.
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That's a few years ago.
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Welcome to the program.
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I'm looking forward
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to what you're
going to share with us
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because I know
it'll be very special.
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And it's really good
to have you here, Barry.
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I've known you
as long as John has.
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But it's going on
for quite a while now.
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Isn't it
terrible as we get older
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and we realize how
long ago things were.
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I think I met you
in 19... end of 1991.
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That's right. Yes.
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Yeah, in Perth that was.
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In Perth, at
Victoria Park Church Hall.
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That's right. I remember that.
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I'm going to
read Matthew 25:37-40,
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because you've chosen
them for this program.
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And these are very special
verses of Jesus speaking.
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Matthew 25:37-40,
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"Then shall the
righteous answer him,
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saying, Lord, when saw we
thee an hungered, and fed thee?
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Or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
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When saw we thee a
stranger, and took thee in?
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Or naked, and clothed thee?
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Or when saw we thee sick,
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or in prison,
and came unto thee?
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And the King shall
answer and say unto them,
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'Verily I say unto you,
inasmuch as ye have done it
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unto one of the
least of these my brethren,
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ye have done it unto me.'"
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They're beautiful words
of commendation, aren't they?
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Yeah, they're just fantastic.
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So why do you
really want that verse?
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Well, to me,
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I guess the
important thing for me is that
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when the question is asked,
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why did you do these things?
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Why did you do them?
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And Jesus said,
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Jesus said
that, what did He say?
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He said, "You did it
unto Me." You did it to Me.
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The least of
these, you did it to Me.
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So I think doing
this sort of work
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we're involved in as
a missionary overseas,
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you actually see
people at the coalface,
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you see where
people are hurting.
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And you ask
yourself time and time again,
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why am I doing this?
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And then you go and sit down
with them under a mango tree,
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and you talk
about their problems,
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and their issues and
their solutions there.
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And so you see that,
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that text
resonated with me a lot,
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as I actually was there
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working with people
that were really hurting.
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And in that
country, there's a lot of,
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there's a lot of
hunger, there's a lot of thirst,
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even, you know,
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just the common thing
water is not readily available.
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So really, you are at
the coalface, aren't you?
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You're meeting the
circumstances of life
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that you never
experienced when you were young.
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They are there,
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so it's a really
interesting experience.
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I know that from being working
in the mission field too,
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how privileged we
are here in Australia
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or some of the other
first world countries
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that we have
everything, we've got more,
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but they don't
have hardly anything.
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But the thing is
they still are happy.
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Yeah. Many of
them are still happy.
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Yeah.
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In fact, they
couldn't be happier.
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Yeah, that's right.
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Good.
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Now, we want to start
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with a bit of an
idea of who you are,
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where you came
from, your family.
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Tell us about yourself, Barry?
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Where did you grow up, Barry?
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All right.
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So we, well,
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the Chapman Family
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were originally they
started in Western Australia.
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That's where our line came from.
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And so as a child,
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I grew up on a dairy
farm and a fruit farm
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in a place called Donnybrook.
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And so, and that was fantastic.
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It was tough going.
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But mom and dad had this vision
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about being on a
farm and doing that stuff.
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And all the way through
our childhood growing up,
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they always talked to us kids
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about what we
could do for the Lord?
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How we could serve people?
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How we could go
overseas and do great things?
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So we were talked
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to about
opportunity right from children.
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And so then as time passed,
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I found a beautiful young woman
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at a youth camp
down in the Stirlings,
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south of Perth near Albany.
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And as time passed, then
we eventually got married.
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And so we lived in
that area on the farm.
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And that's where we
started our life together
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as a husband and wife.
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I was gonna say that
when we moved to Donnybrook...
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Yes, okay.
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We had no idea
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that your family used to live
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just near where we
had bought a property
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because we actually
used to drive past the house
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that you used to live in.
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And we had no idea
until a little while later,
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you came to visit
us there and said,
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"Oh, I used to
live down the road."
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That was rather
unique house, wasn't it?
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There was round
tower at the front.
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That's right.
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But what was unique,
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there was an
orchard all around it, too.
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And there's something
about Granny Smith apples
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in the Chapman's
seed, do you remember?
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Okay, tell us? That's true.
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So back in those early years,
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the Chapman Family were
further out up the Preston River
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which is just
past that area there.
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And they brought
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the Granny Smith
apple into Australia.
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They are some of the
people that are involved
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in bringing in and
when it first came in,
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it wasn't called Granny Smith.
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It was called Chapman's Light.
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And then the Granny
Smith name took on a bit more,
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you know, a bit more,
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you know, a bit fancier
than the Chapman Light name.
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And you know what,
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they make the best apple
pie that you can ever get,
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isn't it really?
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So that apple became,
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you know, renowned and
it was exported to Europe
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and right around the world.
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It's a widely grown apple
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right around the
world these days.
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And do you know that
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I have Chapman's
in my family too.
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Do you really?
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Wow, I better be
careful what I say.
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So, you know,
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we have a picture
of you and your family.
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I'd like to just
have a look at the moment.
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And you can tell
us about these people.
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Okay, so you can see,
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we'll start at the front,
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there's, on the
left is our daughter,
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our oldest Natalie,
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and my wife Bev,
of course, and myself.
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And then at the
back, we've got Hayden,
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he works in the
aircraft industry,
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Justin, who's a
builder on the coast here.
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And he was involved
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in building this building, John.
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That's right. That's correct.
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He was a great
help, I can tell you.
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And then we have
Olivia, and then Annette,
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and they are both
our adopted daughters
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from Uganda who live here
on the Central Coast as well.
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That's an
interesting thought there.
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You went overseas to work
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and you brought
two children back.
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That's very commendable,
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because, you know,
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we should open up our
homes to whoever we can
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and be a blessing and a help.
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And, you know, Bev
and Barry have done this.
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And I've met those
daughters of yours,
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and they are
lovely young ladies.
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It's a pleasure to know them.
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So when we went to Africa,
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we had, we made it clear
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that we would not bring
any children back with us.
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Is that right?
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The plan, we would
not bring anyone back.
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We would go to do our work,
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which is to work with the people
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and identify the
needs and work with them.
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And we would not
sort of be caught
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in the trap of
adopting children.
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And that's how we
went with that mindset.
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That was to change.
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Well, I want to say
something, when I knew you,
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I can remember
visiting your home
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when you lived in a
place called Harvey.
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And you developed
a tourist attraction
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there called The Big Orange.
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That's right. Yeah.
00:08:47.79\00:08:49.12
And I remember being
involved in that too.
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But you also had some,
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something there
that was quite unique,
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and came from Africa.
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And I can
remember visiting your home
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and having two lion cubs.
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They weren't really
small. They were quite grown.
00:09:03.91\00:09:07.04
And they would
come up on my lap.
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And you don't know whether to,
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you know, you're very cautious
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and not knowing, but you raised.
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Tell us a little bit about that
00:09:14.42\00:09:15.75
because that's an
interesting story?
00:09:15.78\00:09:17.12
How did you get
lions in your lounge room?
00:09:17.15\00:09:19.82
What happened was,
00:09:19.85\00:09:21.19
we had started this
project called The Big Orange
00:09:21.22\00:09:23.83
for tourists as a
tourist attraction.
00:09:23.86\00:09:26.26
And then we got to hear
about this circus that had been,
00:09:26.29\00:09:30.73
all the animals
were made redundant.
00:09:30.77\00:09:34.04
And they were
closing the circus down
00:09:34.07\00:09:35.54
and they needed to
put the animals somewhere.
00:09:35.57\00:09:37.07
So we said,
00:09:37.11\00:09:38.44
"Well, why don't you
bring them down to our place.
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We're just about to
open as this tourist venture
00:09:40.38\00:09:43.04
and would be a
bit of a draw card
00:09:43.08\00:09:44.81
to have some
animals there for a while."
00:09:44.85\00:09:46.48
So they came
down within the first,
00:09:46.51\00:09:48.08
at the end of the first week.
00:09:48.12\00:09:49.92
The animal trainer
left and went to New Zealand
00:09:49.95\00:09:52.85
and never came back.
00:09:52.89\00:09:54.72
So we were left with
monkeys, lions, donkeys, camels,
00:09:54.76\00:10:00.06
a whole buffaloes, a
whole range of animals.
00:10:00.10\00:10:02.83
And so you had instant zoo?
00:10:02.86\00:10:04.70
We had an instant zoo.
00:10:04.73\00:10:06.07
And so we had to
very quickly learn
00:10:06.10\00:10:07.97
how to manage these animals.
00:10:08.00\00:10:09.34
How did you feed them?
00:10:09.37\00:10:10.71
Well, that was
actually quite easy
00:10:10.74\00:10:12.07
because we were in a dairy area.
00:10:12.11\00:10:14.84
And so the farmers
would bring in calves
00:10:14.88\00:10:16.91
that have passed
on but didn't make it.
00:10:16.95\00:10:19.81
And so we would
give those to the lions.
00:10:19.85\00:10:21.88
Little did we know
00:10:21.92\00:10:23.39
that when you give a
lion awful from a carcass,
00:10:23.42\00:10:27.39
it will trigger the
female to become active.
00:10:27.42\00:10:30.43
And so, she will
then become pregnant.
00:10:30.46\00:10:33.40
And so, I was in the markets
00:10:33.43\00:10:35.30
buying the fruit and
veggies for the next few days.
00:10:35.33\00:10:38.60
At 4 o'clock in the morning,
I get the phone call to say,
00:10:38.63\00:10:41.50
you better get home,
we've got some baby cubs.
00:10:41.54\00:10:44.87
So the lioness
had how many cubs?
00:10:44.91\00:10:47.28
She had three.
00:10:47.31\00:10:48.78
And so we could see
that she was a first litter
00:10:48.81\00:10:51.11
so she didn't know
what she was doing.
00:10:51.15\00:10:52.98
And so we were
faced with the challenge.
00:10:53.01\00:10:55.32
So one died
00:10:55.35\00:10:56.72
and the other two
were not going to live.
00:10:56.75\00:10:59.29
So I said to my wife,
"But, Bev, what do you think?"
00:10:59.32\00:11:01.92
And she said,
00:11:01.96\00:11:03.29
"Well, let's take
them and raise them."
00:11:03.32\00:11:05.19
So we did.
00:11:05.23\00:11:06.56
And we took them
away from the mother.
00:11:06.59\00:11:08.46
And so we
raised them in our home
00:11:08.50\00:11:09.96
and they stayed in our
home for over two years.
00:11:10.00\00:11:12.23
How did you get them
away from the mother?
00:11:12.27\00:11:15.44
Well, that was a
challenge. I mean, it's a lion.
00:11:15.47\00:11:17.57
In the cage, in the big area,
00:11:17.61\00:11:19.94
we had an area
that was designated
00:11:19.97\00:11:21.31
you could shut it off.
00:11:21.34\00:11:22.68
Yes.
00:11:22.71\00:11:24.05
And so we
closed the adults away.
00:11:24.08\00:11:25.98
And then we took the
babe, we didn't got the babies,
00:11:26.01\00:11:28.58
took them out, took them home.
00:11:28.62\00:11:29.95
At the same time
we were raising those,
00:11:29.98\00:11:32.19
Bev was also raising some joeys,
00:11:32.22\00:11:34.59
some baby kangaroos.
00:11:34.62\00:11:36.16
So the kangaroos and
the lions grew up together.
00:11:36.19\00:11:38.83
Is that right?
00:11:38.86\00:11:40.20
The lion and the
lamb shall feed together.
00:11:40.23\00:11:43.16
The lion and the
kangaroo laying down together.
00:11:43.20\00:11:44.53
Yeah.
00:11:44.57\00:11:45.90
so we had a big dog flap door.
00:11:45.93\00:11:47.87
So the lions would come
and go inside the house.
00:11:47.90\00:11:50.27
And I remember
the night you came.
00:11:50.31\00:11:51.87
Yeah, they came in.
00:11:51.91\00:11:53.51
If there's a clap of
thunder or something,
00:11:53.54\00:11:55.14
they jump up and
jump on their laps.
00:11:55.18\00:11:57.91
And so you had
them for two years?
00:11:57.95\00:11:59.95
Well, it was about
three years actually
00:11:59.98\00:12:01.78
'cause after a year or so,
00:12:01.82\00:12:03.59
18 months, so they got too big,
00:12:03.62\00:12:05.05
they can now stand
up when I'm standing up,
00:12:05.09\00:12:07.06
they stand up and put
the paws on my shoulders
00:12:07.09\00:12:09.66
and lick my hair.
00:12:09.69\00:12:11.09
And so I'd get in
the cage with them
00:12:11.13\00:12:12.89
and talk to them
and play with them.
00:12:12.93\00:12:14.93
And then one day I
was in the cage with them
00:12:14.96\00:12:17.43
and some elderly
people were there.
00:12:17.47\00:12:19.53
And the lady saw the lion
licking me and doing whatever.
00:12:19.57\00:12:23.30
And the female was
always a bit aggressive
00:12:23.34\00:12:25.74
but the male,
00:12:25.77\00:12:27.11
his name was Conte and
Shower were their names.
00:12:27.14\00:12:29.58
And the male was passive,
00:12:29.61\00:12:31.11
but the female
was a bit aggressive.
00:12:31.15\00:12:32.95
And this day, she
pinned me against the wall
00:12:32.98\00:12:35.22
with her weight.
00:12:35.25\00:12:36.58
And I knew that
00:12:36.62\00:12:37.95
I was not winning this game.
00:12:37.99\00:12:39.45
So I told her sit.
00:12:39.49\00:12:40.86
So she immediately
sat down at my feet.
00:12:40.89\00:12:43.32
But I knew that it was time.
00:12:43.36\00:12:45.03
But what did the lady said?
00:12:45.06\00:12:46.66
Well, she got a real scare.
00:12:46.70\00:12:49.06
She thought I was
gonna get eaten I think.
00:12:49.10\00:12:51.57
So anyway, we, was
a great thing to have,
00:12:51.60\00:12:55.10
and is a big draw
card for many people.
00:12:55.14\00:12:56.77
So was that formal
training helped you
00:12:56.81\00:12:59.64
when you went to Africa
00:12:59.67\00:13:01.01
or you stayed right
away from the real ones?
00:13:01.04\00:13:03.71
No, we went to Africa,
00:13:03.75\00:13:05.51
we had nothing to
do with wild lions.
00:13:05.55\00:13:06.88
Okay.
00:13:06.92\00:13:08.25
But it was fantastic experience.
00:13:08.28\00:13:09.92
Let's see the photo.
So it's just beautiful.
00:13:09.95\00:13:12.52
There's two pictures there,
00:13:12.55\00:13:14.19
once Bev feeding one of
them with a bottle of milk.
00:13:14.22\00:13:18.86
And the other one is
you in the cage, is it?
00:13:18.89\00:13:20.93
Yeah, in the cage.
00:13:20.96\00:13:22.50
Playing with the lions.
00:13:22.53\00:13:23.87
On the Sabbath afternoon,
00:13:23.90\00:13:25.23
we put them in the car
00:13:25.27\00:13:26.60
and we take them down the beach.
00:13:26.63\00:13:28.57
You would have a lot of
spectators running wild.
00:13:28.60\00:13:31.21
People would be fishing.
00:13:31.24\00:13:32.57
And they'd look,
00:13:32.61\00:13:33.94
the second take
they wind their lineup
00:13:33.98\00:13:35.31
and then off they'd go
00:13:35.34\00:13:36.68
as we walked near
the beach with the lions.
00:13:36.71\00:13:38.28
Which beaches were they?
00:13:38.31\00:13:39.65
They were over Myalup. Yeah.
00:13:39.68\00:13:41.18
That is, yeah.
00:13:41.22\00:13:42.58
That would have been
00:13:42.62\00:13:43.95
frightening for the
people on the beach.
00:13:43.99\00:13:45.95
We're in Australia, not Africa.
00:13:45.99\00:13:48.32
Just tell me a little bit
of the idea of going to Africa,
00:13:48.36\00:13:51.63
your wife and your family.
00:13:51.66\00:13:54.06
How did they feel about that?
00:13:54.10\00:13:55.50
Because I know, you know,
kids have different ideas,
00:13:55.53\00:13:58.10
you know, you've taken
away from their friends,
00:13:58.13\00:14:00.04
and how did...
00:14:00.07\00:14:01.60
Tell us how that, how
the family was divided up
00:14:01.64\00:14:03.81
and how they went?
00:14:03.84\00:14:05.17
Well, just stepping
back a little minute.
00:14:05.21\00:14:06.54
So when we
applied for the position,
00:14:06.57\00:14:09.08
I think you might
have been responsible
00:14:09.11\00:14:10.65
for some applications
that came to you, John.
00:14:10.68\00:14:12.25
Yeah.
00:14:12.28\00:14:13.62
And so, well
that sat on our fridge
00:14:13.65\00:14:14.98
for three months.
00:14:15.02\00:14:16.35
And eventually we said,
00:14:16.38\00:14:17.72
"Let's take
them off the fridge."
00:14:17.75\00:14:19.09
So we took them off the
fridge on this Sunday night
00:14:19.12\00:14:21.22
and Bev said, "She'd fill
them in and get them send off."
00:14:21.26\00:14:23.69
That next day Monday,
00:14:23.73\00:14:25.39
we get a phone call from ADRA
00:14:25.43\00:14:27.30
inviting us to apply
for a position with ADRA.
00:14:27.33\00:14:30.40
And so it was
quite extraordinary.
00:14:30.43\00:14:31.90
It was like goosebumps
all day, as the guy spoken.
00:14:31.93\00:14:37.77
Yeah, timing of it.
00:14:37.81\00:14:39.14
Well what
happened to The Big Orange?
00:14:39.17\00:14:41.01
So eventually The
Big Orange was sold.
00:14:41.04\00:14:43.71
And then we all,
00:14:43.75\00:14:45.71
I stayed on as a
manager for a while
00:14:45.75\00:14:47.45
to train the new owner.
00:14:47.48\00:14:49.58
And that's when ADRA,
00:14:49.62\00:14:50.95
the position became available
to go to Africa with ADRA.
00:14:50.99\00:14:53.39
So we had the dilemma of
going with all our children
00:14:53.42\00:14:57.73
on or what to do.
00:14:57.76\00:14:59.16
So our oldest daughter Natalie,
00:14:59.19\00:15:01.13
she was just ready
to go into Avondale.
00:15:01.16\00:15:03.93
And so... In college, yeah.
00:15:03.97\00:15:05.30
Yeah.
00:15:05.33\00:15:06.67
So it was very
difficult to leave her behind.
00:15:06.70\00:15:09.60
And so,
00:15:09.64\00:15:10.97
it's one of the
sacrifices that you,
00:15:11.01\00:15:14.04
probably the biggest
sacrifice you make as a family,
00:15:14.08\00:15:18.25
leaving the child behind
to go to the mission field.
00:15:18.28\00:15:20.32
And two of the...
00:15:20.35\00:15:21.68
the two boys
went with you, right?
00:15:21.72\00:15:23.05
They went with us to Botswana.
00:15:23.08\00:15:24.42
So how did you?
Were they excited?
00:15:24.45\00:15:26.65
You know, we've
been out with the kids
00:15:26.69\00:15:28.06
and they're all
excited to go with these,
00:15:28.09\00:15:30.59
your children were?
00:15:30.63\00:15:31.96
Yeah, they were
excited. They're excited.
00:15:31.99\00:15:34.10
It was tough for
Justin, our eldest boy,
00:15:34.13\00:15:36.46
he was now doing year 11
and 12 by correspondence.
00:15:36.50\00:15:38.93
Okay, yep.
00:15:38.97\00:15:40.30
So he found that
really challenging.
00:15:40.34\00:15:42.87
He did well despite that,
00:15:42.90\00:15:45.51
but they got to
experience a lot of things
00:15:45.54\00:15:47.54
that other children wouldn't,
went to a lot of places.
00:15:47.58\00:15:50.48
And Hayden, the younger one,
00:15:50.51\00:15:52.41
he was, you know,
00:15:52.45\00:15:53.85
involved with the local people
00:15:53.88\00:15:55.95
so much in every
sort of activity he could,
00:15:55.98\00:15:58.65
so, yeah, they,
00:15:58.69\00:16:01.56
there was some
toughness about it.
00:16:01.59\00:16:02.96
But there was also,
00:16:02.99\00:16:04.39
their eyes were open wide
into what goes on in the world.
00:16:04.43\00:16:08.00
I remember when
we lived in Bangkok,
00:16:08.03\00:16:10.43
and we'd been in Nepal.
00:16:10.47\00:16:12.80
And James said to me one day,
00:16:12.83\00:16:15.30
you know, Mum,
00:16:15.34\00:16:17.17
you don't need very
much to be able to live.
00:16:17.21\00:16:20.61
Back home we've got so much.
00:16:20.64\00:16:23.01
But here we don't
have to have a lot.
00:16:23.04\00:16:24.95
And you do get,
00:16:24.98\00:16:26.41
the kids get to
realize that, don't they?
00:16:26.45\00:16:28.18
Yeah, they do.
00:16:28.22\00:16:29.55
So what was your
first impressions
00:16:29.58\00:16:30.92
when you went
to spy out the land
00:16:30.95\00:16:32.29
or say spy out the land
00:16:32.32\00:16:33.66
because you went
first to have a look?
00:16:33.69\00:16:35.02
Yeah.
00:16:35.06\00:16:36.39
What was your
thoughts when you were there,
00:16:36.42\00:16:37.76
thinking, this is gonna
be for me and my family?
00:16:37.79\00:16:39.86
What was coming on your mind?
00:16:39.89\00:16:41.23
It was a dry.
00:16:41.26\00:16:42.60
If you'd imagine the
dry part of Australia...
00:16:42.63\00:16:43.97
Yes.
00:16:44.00\00:16:45.33
That was on the edge
of the Kalahari Desert.
00:16:45.37\00:16:46.87
So that gives a ring
to what it was like it,
00:16:46.90\00:16:49.70
grass, but dry
grass and dry scrubs,
00:16:49.74\00:16:52.54
pickled bushes
with big, long prickles.
00:16:52.57\00:16:54.91
And I was a bit unsure
00:16:54.94\00:16:57.85
about how we may grow vegetables
00:16:57.88\00:16:59.68
in such a dry place.
00:16:59.71\00:17:01.45
And so, we had a
bit of a talk about it
00:17:01.48\00:17:04.59
with some local people
and between Bev and myself.
00:17:04.62\00:17:07.96
And we decided
we'd give it a shot.
00:17:07.99\00:17:09.62
Okay.
00:17:09.66\00:17:10.99
And so, I rang her while
I was in Africa and said,
00:17:11.03\00:17:13.90
"I think we can
make out of this.
00:17:13.93\00:17:15.26
What do you think?"
00:17:15.30\00:17:16.63
She said, "I'm ready."
00:17:16.67\00:17:18.00
So what were you told?
What were you called to do?
00:17:18.03\00:17:20.54
So I was called to
be the project manager
00:17:20.57\00:17:23.87
and the principal of setting up
00:17:23.91\00:17:25.54
the Barolong
Institute of Agriculture.
00:17:25.57\00:17:27.64
So this is an
agricultural training college
00:17:27.68\00:17:30.08
that was to work with
mainly women and also men,
00:17:30.11\00:17:35.25
but people that were struggling,
00:17:35.28\00:17:36.72
people in that
area eat a lot of meat,
00:17:36.75\00:17:38.95
they don't eat much
in the way of vegetables.
00:17:38.99\00:17:40.52
And so there are lots of
associated medical illnesses
00:17:40.56\00:17:43.86
associated with lack
of greens in their diet.
00:17:43.89\00:17:47.76
So this was to teach
them simply how to do it
00:17:47.80\00:17:51.63
in their home village situation.
00:17:51.67\00:17:53.74
Yeah, so you would take them
step by step in growing things.
00:17:53.77\00:17:56.64
That's right.
00:17:56.67\00:17:58.01
So they would come in
three, for four months.
00:17:58.04\00:17:59.87
That was a four
month training program,
00:17:59.91\00:18:01.91
and then they would go
off after the graduation.
00:18:01.94\00:18:06.48
And they would bring
another batch of students in.
00:18:06.51\00:18:08.95
Well, we've got a
sign for your place
00:18:08.98\00:18:12.99
where you were, you went.
00:18:13.02\00:18:14.36
Baralong, is it?
00:18:14.39\00:18:15.72
Barolong
Institute of Agriculture.
00:18:15.76\00:18:17.86
So this project was funded
by the Australian Government,
00:18:17.89\00:18:20.66
about 6 or 700,000
Australian dollars,
00:18:20.70\00:18:23.23
something like that.
00:18:23.26\00:18:24.60
And ADRA was,
00:18:24.63\00:18:26.60
Adventist
Development and Relief Agency,
00:18:26.63\00:18:28.40
was engaged to
be the implementer.
00:18:28.44\00:18:30.77
So we connected with
the government of Botswana,
00:18:30.81\00:18:33.54
and also the Seventh-day
Adventist Church in the area.
00:18:33.58\00:18:37.01
And so, we developed a
group of us work, working team.
00:18:37.05\00:18:42.75
And then I led the team
00:18:42.78\00:18:44.35
as we went to
start this program.
00:18:44.39\00:18:46.62
Because you're in an
area now where it's totally,
00:18:46.65\00:18:49.39
I know, you're heavily involved
00:18:49.42\00:18:50.83
in the Australian
agricultural scene.
00:18:50.86\00:18:53.40
Now you're in another place.
00:18:53.43\00:18:55.36
And so the techniques
00:18:55.40\00:18:56.73
that you would
have learnt in Australia
00:18:56.77\00:18:59.40
don't really apply there.
00:18:59.43\00:19:00.77
Do they in the
terms of what we do here?
00:19:00.80\00:19:02.94
No, that's right.
00:19:02.97\00:19:04.31
Of course, horticultural
principles are the same.
00:19:04.34\00:19:07.18
Plants are like
us, they need food.
00:19:07.21\00:19:09.08
So if you feed and water
them, they will grow well,
00:19:09.11\00:19:12.25
if they've got the warmth.
00:19:12.28\00:19:13.62
And, of course,
they're in the Kalahari Desert,
00:19:13.65\00:19:15.55
it would be warm, it's mostly.
00:19:15.58\00:19:18.09
So...
00:19:18.12\00:19:19.45
Is it consistent
weather through the year
00:19:19.49\00:19:20.82
or is it a bit like
is seasonal here like?
00:19:20.86\00:19:22.86
They get a summer
rainfall and a dry winter.
00:19:22.89\00:19:26.80
So it can get quite cold
00:19:26.83\00:19:28.76
when you get the cold winds off
the southern states of Africa,
00:19:28.80\00:19:33.47
southern part of Africa,
00:19:33.50\00:19:35.07
but in terms of
what we are trying to do,
00:19:35.10\00:19:40.54
we had no mechanization,
so all was hand done.
00:19:40.58\00:19:44.31
Yes.
00:19:44.35\00:19:45.68
We didn't even have horses
and fancy things like that.
00:19:45.71\00:19:49.78
So we were... Just human power.
00:19:49.82\00:19:51.15
It was human
power, that's all it was.
00:19:51.19\00:19:52.79
So when we went there,
00:19:52.82\00:19:56.12
I wasn't sure
00:19:56.16\00:19:57.49
how it was all
going to work out.
00:19:57.53\00:20:00.03
But I thought we'd
leave it up to the Lord.
00:20:00.06\00:20:01.73
And we'll just make this
thing do the best we can.
00:20:01.76\00:20:04.13
And I suppose you went
there and you had a wonderful,
00:20:04.17\00:20:08.17
very, very
luxurious home to live in,
00:20:08.20\00:20:10.94
so that you would
be able to do the work?
00:20:10.97\00:20:12.97
Would have been
lovely, wouldn't it?
00:20:13.01\00:20:14.68
So fortunately, we were very,
00:20:14.71\00:20:16.24
we were blessed in that
00:20:16.28\00:20:17.61
we were given a
caravan behind a little,
00:20:17.65\00:20:21.15
they call it a
bakkie there or ute.
00:20:21.18\00:20:23.59
And so we drove that
into the block, the bush.
00:20:23.62\00:20:26.65
There it is.
00:20:26.69\00:20:28.02
Yeah, that's the caravan.
00:20:28.06\00:20:29.52
We drove that in, and then we,
00:20:29.56\00:20:31.99
we lived in that
for three months.
00:20:32.03\00:20:34.26
So there was nothing on site.
00:20:34.30\00:20:36.63
And so,
00:20:36.67\00:20:38.00
we had the whole task
of designing and building
00:20:38.03\00:20:42.60
and getting the
whole project going.
00:20:42.64\00:20:44.31
So how was the land
allocated for this project?
00:20:44.34\00:20:46.78
Was that the
Botswana government?
00:20:46.81\00:20:48.74
Yes. So it was tribal land.
00:20:48.78\00:20:51.08
Was owned by the tribe.
00:20:51.11\00:20:52.45
I think it's about 125 hectares,
00:20:52.48\00:20:53.88
I think they'd given to us,
00:20:53.92\00:20:55.35
it was right near
00:20:55.38\00:20:56.72
a little village called Pitsani,
00:20:56.75\00:20:58.22
which is down in
the southern part
00:20:58.25\00:21:00.26
of Botswana just near Lobatse.
00:21:00.29\00:21:02.49
And, of course,
00:21:02.52\00:21:03.86
the Adventist
Church has had a presence
00:21:03.89\00:21:05.23
at big hospital at Kanye,
00:21:05.26\00:21:06.83
which wasn't far away either.
00:21:06.86\00:21:08.63
So we were going into an area
00:21:08.66\00:21:11.20
where there
weren't many Adventists,
00:21:11.23\00:21:13.30
but lot of
Christians and a lot of people
00:21:13.34\00:21:15.34
that were keen to
learn more about agriculture.
00:21:15.37\00:21:20.58
Learn more about
eating vegetables.
00:21:20.61\00:21:22.38
Yes, that's right.
00:21:22.41\00:21:23.75
So you had to
live in this caravan.
00:21:23.78\00:21:25.98
Where were you
getting your water
00:21:26.01\00:21:27.35
and where were
you getting your food
00:21:27.38\00:21:28.72
because you hadn't
got the gardens going yet?
00:21:28.75\00:21:30.39
What were you doing to survive?
00:21:30.42\00:21:32.15
So what had happened was
00:21:32.19\00:21:34.16
when I first went
there for the first trip,
00:21:34.19\00:21:36.66
we organized with a
contractor to put a bore down.
00:21:36.69\00:21:39.16
Okay.
00:21:39.19\00:21:40.53
So when we arrived,
00:21:40.56\00:21:41.90
there was a bore
that had a pump on it
00:21:41.93\00:21:43.97
there because it's dry country,
the bore was 500 meters deep.
00:21:44.00\00:21:48.40
Wow, that's half a kilometer.
00:21:48.44\00:21:50.24
It's a long way down.
00:21:50.27\00:21:51.64
So then we had to run out,
the water came up a fair way.
00:21:51.67\00:21:56.34
So we only had
to avail pump down
00:21:56.38\00:21:57.91
about 150 meters.
00:21:57.95\00:21:59.88
And then we had a generator
00:21:59.91\00:22:01.82
on top making, nothing worked.
00:22:01.85\00:22:03.52
So there it is.
00:22:03.55\00:22:04.89
That's them
putting the bore down.
00:22:04.92\00:22:06.39
That's it.
00:22:06.42\00:22:07.76
So you can see how
dry the country is.
00:22:07.79\00:22:09.32
Yes.
00:22:09.36\00:22:10.69
And you were going
to grow vegetables?
00:22:10.73\00:22:12.06
Yeah.
00:22:12.09\00:22:13.43
And then people would
think you'd have to be mad.
00:22:13.46\00:22:15.36
Well, I wasn't sure either.
00:22:15.40\00:22:17.50
But we pressed on.
00:22:20.50\00:22:21.84
And we got there
towards the end of July.
00:22:21.87\00:22:27.54
And so then we employed
about 30 something people,
00:22:27.58\00:22:32.31
local men and women to come.
00:22:32.35\00:22:35.88
And so we made all
the bricks on site,
00:22:35.92\00:22:37.89
we got sand and cement,
00:22:37.92\00:22:39.89
and made all the
bricks to build the buildings.
00:22:39.92\00:22:42.72
And we moved into our
house on the 6th of October.
00:22:42.76\00:22:47.50
So, and then by that
stage, we had built the sheds,
00:22:47.53\00:22:51.83
the
accommodation for the students
00:22:51.87\00:22:53.74
as well as the
new classroom block.
00:22:53.77\00:22:55.57
So you were busy? Yeah.
00:22:55.60\00:22:57.01
Well, I wasn't so busy,
the others were all busy.
00:22:57.04\00:22:58.74
I just went around
and talked to them.
00:22:58.77\00:23:00.68
So was your wife
happy with a new home and,
00:23:00.71\00:23:03.81
you know, I mean,
00:23:03.85\00:23:05.18
we got an idea
what a house is like.
00:23:05.21\00:23:07.85
After a caravan.
00:23:07.88\00:23:09.22
Yeah, well, she
would be very happy,
00:23:09.25\00:23:10.59
I know, I realize that.
00:23:10.62\00:23:11.95
But, you know,
00:23:11.99\00:23:13.32
in terms of
facilities they have in there,
00:23:13.36\00:23:14.79
stove, and all those things.
00:23:14.82\00:23:17.06
How they compare with
what she was used to here?
00:23:17.09\00:23:20.33
It was actually
quite a nice house,
00:23:20.36\00:23:21.86
was actually quite good.
00:23:21.90\00:23:23.90
We were blessed in that,
we were able to find tradesmen
00:23:23.93\00:23:26.87
that were pretty hands
on and pretty organized.
00:23:26.90\00:23:30.67
And so it was a
small, modest home,
00:23:30.71\00:23:34.74
but it was very functional.
00:23:34.78\00:23:36.61
One of the important points
00:23:36.64\00:23:37.98
to make is that
00:23:38.01\00:23:39.71
if families are thinking
of doing this type of thing,
00:23:39.75\00:23:43.99
there needs to
be a huge commitment
00:23:44.02\00:23:47.36
from your wife or the
mother of the children.
00:23:47.39\00:23:52.46
If she...
00:23:52.49\00:23:53.90
What's that as the saying goes,
00:23:53.93\00:23:55.53
"If mama ain't
happy, nobody's happy."
00:23:55.56\00:23:57.77
So, but I was blessed in that,
00:23:57.80\00:24:01.90
Bev was so dedicated to
getting behind the program,
00:24:01.94\00:24:07.14
and making a
difference in people's lives.
00:24:07.18\00:24:09.21
And she had the vision.
00:24:09.24\00:24:10.75
She had that vision to do it.
00:24:10.78\00:24:12.38
And so, although we
talk about hardships,
00:24:12.41\00:24:15.08
we talk about those things.
00:24:15.12\00:24:16.58
She was able to, you know,
00:24:16.62\00:24:19.32
address what she was
there to do and she did.
00:24:19.35\00:24:22.02
She adapted to it. Yes.
00:24:22.06\00:24:23.76
And that's what really take...
00:24:23.79\00:24:25.13
That's what really where
you've to come with thinking.
00:24:25.16\00:24:27.06
You don't want to take
the Western world there,
00:24:27.10\00:24:29.06
you got to adapt to,
00:24:29.10\00:24:30.97
to be there and
to be an influence
00:24:31.00\00:24:32.53
and a blessing
to others, you know,
00:24:32.57\00:24:33.90
that's an important thing.
00:24:33.94\00:24:35.74
Or one day to show
you how tough it's there,
00:24:35.77\00:24:39.77
is Bev was doing the washing.
00:24:39.81\00:24:42.04
And she had a sense
that something wasn't right.
00:24:42.08\00:24:44.78
And so, we checked it
out and there's a black mamba
00:24:44.81\00:24:47.75
under the
little washing machine.
00:24:47.78\00:24:49.15
Oh, no!
00:24:49.18\00:24:50.52
Those of you who
know what black mamba is.
00:24:50.55\00:24:52.05
It's one of the most
deadly snakes in Africa.
00:24:52.09\00:24:54.32
And so, we took the lid
off and we killed the snake.
00:24:54.36\00:24:57.63
So that's the sort
of things you are faced
00:24:57.66\00:24:59.86
with in these situations,
00:24:59.89\00:25:02.06
mostly you wouldn't come
across that in Australia.
00:25:02.10\00:25:04.90
I thought she might have said
there's a lion in the laundry.
00:25:04.93\00:25:08.84
We've got a photo,
00:25:08.87\00:25:10.21
an aerial photo or
two of them of the area
00:25:10.24\00:25:13.07
where you were working,
and it's showing the buildings.
00:25:13.11\00:25:15.91
And then down this on
the right hand corner,
00:25:15.94\00:25:18.28
you can see a big tank,
and more of the gardens.
00:25:18.31\00:25:22.22
That's, that seems very
different to the pictures
00:25:22.25\00:25:24.72
we saw when you
first arrive there?
00:25:24.75\00:25:27.19
When you're
putting in the water.
00:25:27.22\00:25:28.56
Water, I mean, that's
just, that's development.
00:25:28.59\00:25:30.53
That's called development.
00:25:30.56\00:25:31.89
So which is your house?
00:25:31.93\00:25:33.26
So the one at the top
in the picture on the left,
00:25:33.29\00:25:35.93
right up at top,
see the green tanks?
00:25:35.96\00:25:37.30
Yes.
00:25:37.33\00:25:38.67
That's the shed,
and the girls' dormitory
00:25:38.70\00:25:40.04
and then ours is
the next house over.
00:25:40.07\00:25:41.40
Okay.
00:25:41.44\00:25:42.77
Classroom on the
right over there,
00:25:42.80\00:25:44.14
and down here
another staff housing.
00:25:44.17\00:25:45.51
How many buildings
did you put up there?
00:25:45.54\00:25:46.88
I think there's
about 10 or 12 eventually.
00:25:46.91\00:25:49.14
But in that
first six month period,
00:25:49.18\00:25:51.31
because we had to
get everything built,
00:25:51.35\00:25:52.91
and write the curriculum,
00:25:52.95\00:25:54.28
select the teachers
and be operating by January
00:25:54.32\00:25:56.69
for the first
intake of students.
00:25:56.72\00:25:58.05
And you only got there in July?
00:25:58.09\00:25:59.45
And we've got
there at the end of July.
00:25:59.49\00:26:00.82
That's right. End of July.
00:26:00.86\00:26:02.19
So, Barry, we talked
about being dry there.
00:26:02.22\00:26:03.93
You said they had
wet season in January,
00:26:03.96\00:26:05.79
do they receive a lot of rain?
00:26:05.83\00:26:08.10
Yeah, pretty
good, I'd say 400 mil.
00:26:08.13\00:26:10.90
Four hundred mil.
Three hundred mil, yeah.
00:26:10.93\00:26:12.37
So that last picture
there was taken about November.
00:26:12.40\00:26:18.71
So by the November,
00:26:18.74\00:26:20.08
we already had
established gardens.
00:26:20.11\00:26:21.64
We already had that game,
00:26:21.68\00:26:23.01
we had about five
acres of gardens producing
00:26:23.04\00:26:24.78
before the students got there.
00:26:24.81\00:26:26.41
We had to have food
ready to feed the students
00:26:26.45\00:26:28.85
when they arrived.
00:26:28.88\00:26:30.32
And so we got busy
and got the gardens done.
00:26:30.35\00:26:33.92
And we set the
gardens out in a way,
00:26:33.96\00:26:35.96
you could see that
layout on that photo,
00:26:35.99\00:26:37.86
how the gardens were set out
00:26:37.89\00:26:39.86
in what we call a
square meter principle.
00:26:39.89\00:26:42.23
So each garden bed
was 10 meters long.
00:26:42.26\00:26:43.77
Yes.
00:26:43.80\00:26:45.13
And so, then each student
was given six or eight beds.
00:26:45.17\00:26:48.74
And then they had
to manage those beds
00:26:48.77\00:26:50.77
through the training course.
00:26:50.81\00:26:52.47
And they were marked
according to what they did.
00:26:52.51\00:26:55.84
If one plant died,
they'd lose points.
00:26:55.88\00:26:57.55
And so it was...
00:26:57.58\00:26:58.91
So there was a
very big incentive
00:26:58.95\00:27:00.28
to keep them alive.
00:27:00.32\00:27:02.28
Tender loving care for.
00:27:02.32\00:27:04.25
The program start
at six in the morning,
00:27:04.29\00:27:06.35
and they'd be out
in the gardens working.
00:27:06.39\00:27:08.52
And then we'd have
worship and normal things.
00:27:08.56\00:27:11.39
And then we'd have two
or three hours of theory
00:27:11.43\00:27:14.70
of going through
the theory of health,
00:27:14.73\00:27:17.50
and also agriculture.
00:27:17.53\00:27:18.87
And pests? Yep.
00:27:18.90\00:27:20.54
And then we'll be
back in the gardens
00:27:20.57\00:27:22.10
in the afternoon again.
00:27:22.14\00:27:23.54
So what sort of
pests they have there?
00:27:23.57\00:27:25.57
Well being, you
know, it was open country.
00:27:25.61\00:27:28.54
So we had everything,
00:27:28.58\00:27:29.91
from grasshoppers to
lots of, lots of things.
00:27:29.94\00:27:32.98
So we just had to be sensible,
00:27:33.01\00:27:35.42
we didn't overdo
the chemical use,
00:27:35.45\00:27:37.69
was more a natural
way of controlling things.
00:27:37.72\00:27:41.52
We do that as often as we could.
00:27:41.56\00:27:42.89
So we would use
things like chilies
00:27:42.92\00:27:45.26
mixed with water to
control pests on the plants
00:27:45.29\00:27:48.46
like thrips and
these sort of pests.
00:27:48.50\00:27:51.33
So we stayed
away from pesticides
00:27:51.37\00:27:53.40
where we could
00:27:53.44\00:27:54.77
because once you
use a lot of pesticides,
00:27:54.80\00:27:57.07
you will then
bring other problems.
00:27:57.11\00:27:59.41
So if you could stay
as natural as you can,
00:27:59.44\00:28:02.14
and you do, we grew
a lot of greens there,
00:28:02.18\00:28:05.21
a lot of spinach and a
lot of thing called rape,
00:28:05.25\00:28:07.62
which we call it
different things over here,
00:28:07.65\00:28:10.15
kale and different
names like that we give it.
00:28:10.19\00:28:12.25
So that was very well
sought after by many people.
00:28:12.29\00:28:15.76
We'd take
truckloads of it to town,
00:28:15.79\00:28:17.93
and sell it in bundles.
00:28:17.96\00:28:19.36
So maintaining
was a big thing. Yeah.
00:28:19.39\00:28:23.63
And you're now introducing
the vegetables to that.
00:28:23.67\00:28:27.34
And so you get a
healthier person.
00:28:27.37\00:28:29.37
That's right.
00:28:29.40\00:28:30.74
So did you see the change
00:28:30.77\00:28:32.11
in those who were coming there
00:28:32.14\00:28:33.48
in their way of thinking about,
you know, the food they eat?
00:28:33.51\00:28:36.44
Yes, we did. We did.
00:28:36.48\00:28:37.81
We saw people
adapting and adopting the ideas
00:28:37.85\00:28:44.29
of what we were
promoting and talking about.
00:28:44.32\00:28:46.35
So this is,
00:28:46.39\00:28:47.72
this course had a
real practical application.
00:28:47.76\00:28:50.43
It was taking
people where they are
00:28:50.46\00:28:53.40
to actually make a
difference to their lives.
00:28:53.43\00:28:56.30
And so we had
many women come in that
00:28:56.33\00:28:58.27
would go home to
the village situation
00:28:58.30\00:29:00.24
and duplicate what
they had been taught.
00:29:00.27\00:29:02.94
And they were
delighted to be able to learn
00:29:02.97\00:29:05.37
how to grow simple
things like cabbages and...
00:29:05.41\00:29:08.64
Feed themselves and
make money to drew an income.
00:29:08.68\00:29:12.38
And did you teach them
how to cook it as well?
00:29:12.41\00:29:14.38
Yes, yeah, actually
00:29:14.42\00:29:15.75
Bev would run
cooking classes there
00:29:15.78\00:29:18.49
and that was received very well.
00:29:18.52\00:29:21.42
And that was
simple cooking classes,
00:29:21.46\00:29:23.19
not like the ones you
get in Western societies.
00:29:23.22\00:29:25.09
That's right.
00:29:25.13\00:29:26.46
So that, they have,
00:29:26.49\00:29:27.83
they grow a bit of
sorghum in the area.
00:29:27.86\00:29:29.20
Okay.
00:29:29.23\00:29:30.57
So they would
crush the sorghum up
00:29:30.60\00:29:31.93
and make mealie meal
like a what we call a porridge
00:29:31.97\00:29:34.94
and they had that
once or twice a day.
00:29:34.97\00:29:37.81
And so that's would be a
staple in that part of Africa.
00:29:37.84\00:29:41.81
And so, then they
have greens with that
00:29:41.84\00:29:43.85
and a bit of their
meat that they had was,
00:29:43.88\00:29:45.81
then made it a
more complete diet.
00:29:45.85\00:29:47.92
Excellent. Very good.
00:29:47.95\00:29:49.55
Now we've got some photos.
00:29:49.58\00:29:52.49
One of them I think, this
one here is quite amazing.
00:29:52.52\00:29:56.26
This, they look like
the ladies are carrying
00:29:56.29\00:29:59.19
big watering
jugs on their heads.
00:29:59.23\00:30:01.06
Is that?
00:30:01.10\00:30:02.43
Is that what
they are, water cans?
00:30:02.46\00:30:03.80
Yes, they are.
00:30:03.83\00:30:05.17
So we made it really early on
00:30:05.20\00:30:07.30
that we would need
00:30:07.34\00:30:08.67
to be able to get
the students to duplicate
00:30:08.70\00:30:10.91
what they would do
when they went home.
00:30:10.94\00:30:12.77
I think it's
very important. Yes.
00:30:12.81\00:30:14.31
The garden hoses
were banned, John.
00:30:14.34\00:30:16.58
No one could have a garden hose.
00:30:16.61\00:30:18.65
And so these folk
would be given a watering can
00:30:18.68\00:30:22.55
or a bucket.
00:30:22.58\00:30:23.92
And they had to carry it
00:30:23.95\00:30:25.29
as if they were
carrying it from home,
00:30:25.32\00:30:26.65
because a lot of them
00:30:26.69\00:30:28.02
would just have a
hand pump in the village,
00:30:28.06\00:30:29.39
they have to go
to the hand pump,
00:30:29.42\00:30:30.76
get a bucket of water,
00:30:30.79\00:30:32.13
bring it back and
put on the cabbages.
00:30:32.16\00:30:33.50
So I said,
00:30:33.53\00:30:34.86
that's what you got to do
every day that you're here.
00:30:34.90\00:30:36.73
And so,
00:30:36.77\00:30:38.10
we didn't try to do get
them to think about things
00:30:38.13\00:30:41.10
that they would have
to go and buy like a hose,
00:30:41.14\00:30:43.71
or something
different like that.
00:30:43.74\00:30:45.47
So we just assimilated
with the local situation.
00:30:45.51\00:30:49.54
That's right. And
that's very, very good.
00:30:49.58\00:30:51.21
Because it's not
you're teaching them
00:30:51.25\00:30:53.21
to do something that
they won't be doing at home.
00:30:53.25\00:30:55.48
That's right.
00:30:55.52\00:30:56.85
Because when they get home,
00:30:56.89\00:30:58.22
they'd say, "This is too hard."
00:30:58.25\00:30:59.59
That's right.
00:30:59.62\00:31:00.96
But if they've
been taught exactly
00:31:00.99\00:31:02.32
how they would
have to do it at home,
00:31:02.36\00:31:03.69
it just becomes second nature.
00:31:03.73\00:31:05.06
That's how you do it.
00:31:05.09\00:31:06.43
And it was really
interesting to see
00:31:06.46\00:31:07.80
because we had these
tanks set out in the garden.
00:31:07.83\00:31:10.60
So we would have the
tanks filled with water.
00:31:10.63\00:31:12.60
Then we get a
bag of poultry manure
00:31:12.63\00:31:15.64
and tie it to the tanks.
00:31:15.67\00:31:18.01
And then... It's like a trough.
00:31:18.04\00:31:20.61
You can see it
in the middle there.
00:31:20.64\00:31:21.98
So that's a shot of the gardens
00:31:22.01\00:31:23.35
that's after the
students been going.
00:31:23.38\00:31:25.68
And it was beautiful, it was.
00:31:25.71\00:31:27.88
And so, it was just,
00:31:27.92\00:31:29.48
there's just so many
things that are producing.
00:31:29.52\00:31:31.65
So they would go and
dip their bucket in there.
00:31:31.69\00:31:33.49
And they'd be getting
like a liquid fertilizer
00:31:33.52\00:31:35.89
and putting that
on their gardens.
00:31:35.92\00:31:37.26
And so, was just amazing
00:31:37.29\00:31:39.36
the production that
we're able to achieve.
00:31:39.39\00:31:41.23
So where did you
get the seedlings?
00:31:41.26\00:31:42.60
Did they, did you propagate it?
00:31:42.63\00:31:43.97
We had our own
nursery we'd make them from,
00:31:44.00\00:31:46.03
so the students had
to grow them from seed.
00:31:46.07\00:31:48.30
So we'd give
them 70 bags of seed,
00:31:48.34\00:31:50.87
or 70 containers of seed
00:31:50.91\00:31:52.24
and say, this
is your assignment.
00:31:52.27\00:31:54.68
Here's the onion
seed, the cabbage seed,
00:31:54.71\00:31:56.08
the broccoli seed, the
beetroot seed, whatever,
00:31:56.11\00:31:59.68
that we assigned to them,
00:31:59.71\00:32:01.05
you've got to,
they'll grow the seedlings.
00:32:01.08\00:32:02.85
And then from the seedlings,
00:32:02.88\00:32:04.22
you got to then
get it to your nursery
00:32:04.25\00:32:05.59
to your garden plot.
00:32:05.62\00:32:06.96
Best way to learn.
00:32:06.99\00:32:08.32
And then they have
to then market them.
00:32:08.36\00:32:10.39
So they're involved
in the marketing as well.
00:32:10.43\00:32:13.40
So they can make
money for their family?
00:32:13.43\00:32:15.26
So this program was designed
on a program out of Zimbabwe
00:32:15.30\00:32:18.73
that had been started
there many years before
00:32:18.77\00:32:20.80
that had been very successful.
00:32:20.84\00:32:22.50
And so we donated,
applicable to Botswana,
00:32:22.54\00:32:25.77
which was actually a
bit tougher than Zimbabwe.
00:32:25.81\00:32:27.98
And it went very well, it
was, some of the students,
00:32:28.01\00:32:32.95
their knowledge just exploded,
00:32:32.98\00:32:35.52
because they're
hungry like a sponge,
00:32:35.55\00:32:37.72
they just sapped
up the information.
00:32:37.75\00:32:39.62
So some of these students
were, after four months,
00:32:39.65\00:32:43.19
had incredible knowledge.
00:32:43.22\00:32:45.43
And the Minister of
Agriculture realized
00:32:45.46\00:32:48.43
that these
students had picked up
00:32:48.46\00:32:50.07
a lot of knowledge.
00:32:50.10\00:32:51.47
So he employed the
four or five best students
00:32:51.50\00:32:54.34
every time there
was a graduation,
00:32:54.37\00:32:55.84
to go and work
00:32:55.87\00:32:57.21
with the
Ministry of Agriculture.
00:32:57.24\00:32:58.57
It was quite amazing.
00:32:58.61\00:32:59.94
And many of the other
students went to other projects,
00:32:59.97\00:33:02.44
work for other organizations.
00:33:02.48\00:33:04.25
And so it created
employment as for many
00:33:04.28\00:33:07.35
as well as those that
wanted to go back home.
00:33:07.38\00:33:10.22
They had the knowledge now
to actually do things at home.
00:33:10.25\00:33:13.19
And to have a local,
produce a local income.
00:33:13.22\00:33:19.59
So that five acres,
00:33:19.63\00:33:20.96
how many students
in an intake did you
00:33:21.00\00:33:22.83
or were you able to take in?
00:33:22.86\00:33:24.23
Yeah, we were between 30 and 45.
00:33:24.27\00:33:27.24
That's a big area,
five acres into that.
00:33:27.27\00:33:29.30
Yeah, that is. It is too.
00:33:29.34\00:33:30.67
That is a big area. Yeah.
00:33:30.71\00:33:32.41
I would like to have
just looking at the photo
00:33:32.44\00:33:35.54
with all the gardens
and the water trough.
00:33:35.58\00:33:36.91
I'd like to have had the garden
00:33:36.95\00:33:38.28
right by the water trough.
00:33:38.31\00:33:40.55
But do you saw a
big round tank there?
00:33:40.58\00:33:42.62
Well, that held 200,000 liters.
00:33:42.65\00:33:45.62
And we made that, so
that when in the dry season,
00:33:45.65\00:33:50.29
we could pump
that full of water.
00:33:50.33\00:33:52.16
And we could buffer our needs
for water to run the place.
00:33:52.19\00:33:56.83
And here are
some of the students
00:33:56.87\00:33:58.23
with what they grew.
00:33:58.27\00:34:00.40
That's the big
tank at the back there.
00:34:00.44\00:34:02.30
And so that was eight foot high
00:34:02.34\00:34:03.71
those, that's 2.4
meter inside the walls,
00:34:03.74\00:34:05.67
and there are
three bricks thick.
00:34:05.71\00:34:07.51
So it was a big tank.
00:34:07.54\00:34:08.88
And the local men
00:34:08.91\00:34:10.25
that made it
were just fantastic,
00:34:10.28\00:34:11.61
they're just fantastic.
00:34:11.65\00:34:13.18
But the students here,
00:34:13.21\00:34:14.55
that's the sort of stuff
the cabbages and the greens
00:34:14.58\00:34:16.02
that we would grow.
00:34:16.05\00:34:17.39
One there with the
big pile of spinach?
00:34:17.42\00:34:18.75
Yep.
00:34:18.79\00:34:20.12
So that's typical of
how we would come out
00:34:20.16\00:34:21.99
in the garden with the students
00:34:22.02\00:34:23.43
and we would teach them
00:34:23.46\00:34:25.03
about how the
nutrients are reacting,
00:34:25.06\00:34:27.23
how we do pest control.
00:34:27.26\00:34:29.13
We teach them
about all the things
00:34:29.16\00:34:30.57
about horticulture and plants,
00:34:30.60\00:34:32.33
how you actually control
and manage to grow good food.
00:34:32.37\00:34:37.54
And so in the same way
00:34:37.57\00:34:38.91
that we need to
have a balanced diet.
00:34:38.94\00:34:41.34
A plant needs a balanced diet.
00:34:41.38\00:34:43.24
So we gave them all the
theory as well as the practical
00:34:43.28\00:34:47.25
in delivering those things.
00:34:47.28\00:34:48.78
And you taught
them nutrition as well
00:34:48.82\00:34:50.82
and why they need to
eat these types of things.
00:34:50.85\00:34:53.86
That was all part
of the health part.
00:34:53.89\00:34:55.22
So there are two parts.
00:34:55.26\00:34:56.59
It was the agricultural side
and there was the health side.
00:34:56.62\00:34:58.99
So in graduation, they
would get the certificate,
00:34:59.03\00:35:02.40
and it would
show the mark they got
00:35:02.43\00:35:04.53
for either health
or for agriculture.
00:35:04.57\00:35:06.30
And so it was
good for the government
00:35:06.33\00:35:08.10
to take some of
these young people on?
00:35:08.14\00:35:11.71
It was fantastic.
00:35:11.74\00:35:13.48
Because they had
a double grounding
00:35:13.51\00:35:17.61
at the nutrition as well
as the agricultural side,
00:35:17.65\00:35:19.91
so they would be a big benefit.
00:35:19.95\00:35:21.28
But what age group
would normally come?
00:35:21.32\00:35:23.08
Well, there'd be anywhere
from 16 to in their 40s.
00:35:23.12\00:35:27.66
So there could be a full range.
00:35:27.69\00:35:29.06
So at the same
time this was happening,
00:35:29.09\00:35:31.73
AIDS were starting
to take off in Botswana,
00:35:31.76\00:35:36.13
right across Africa, actually.
00:35:36.16\00:35:37.93
And so the AIDS thing
was also on everybody's lips.
00:35:37.97\00:35:42.04
And so that was another
part of life that we would,
00:35:42.07\00:35:45.51
we were teaching that
in the classroom as well.
00:35:45.54\00:35:49.58
And in time,
00:35:49.61\00:35:50.95
some of our
students did die from AIDS
00:35:50.98\00:35:52.75
after,
afterwards, we found that out.
00:35:52.78\00:35:55.32
And so, AIDS is, is
no respecter of persons,
00:35:55.35\00:35:58.65
it's, if you
participate in activities
00:35:58.69\00:36:01.06
that lead to AIDS, infection,
you will, it'll happen.
00:36:01.09\00:36:06.90
And you'll die, but so then,
00:36:06.93\00:36:09.00
and leads to a lot of change
00:36:09.03\00:36:11.67
in the
demographic of the population?
00:36:11.70\00:36:13.20
That's right.
00:36:13.23\00:36:14.57
And so you,
00:36:14.60\00:36:15.94
you lose a lot of people in
that 20 to 45 year age group
00:36:15.97\00:36:21.24
will actually pass away.
00:36:21.28\00:36:23.08
And so we saw that
later on in Uganda,
00:36:23.11\00:36:25.05
when we went there
00:36:25.08\00:36:26.41
that a lot of folk
really struggled with that.
00:36:26.45\00:36:30.52
But Botswana is a
really good country,
00:36:30.55\00:36:35.16
the people are beautiful people.
00:36:35.19\00:36:37.13
And the way they do their life
00:36:37.16\00:36:40.36
is a bit different
to some other places.
00:36:40.40\00:36:42.70
And so we need
to respect culture
00:36:42.73\00:36:45.40
and the way they
do their business,
00:36:45.43\00:36:46.97
but then you throw AIDS
into the middle of that.
00:36:47.00\00:36:49.30
You have to be honest and
frank and fair with people
00:36:49.34\00:36:52.84
and tell them that
this is what needs to happen
00:36:52.87\00:36:55.48
if you want to prevent
yourself from those things.
00:36:55.51\00:36:57.75
I think that's right.
00:36:57.78\00:36:59.45
You know, we saw the
fields of the gardens
00:36:59.48\00:37:03.75
that you had
there, but what else?
00:37:03.79\00:37:05.12
What other projects
or what other activities
00:37:05.15\00:37:07.36
you get involved
in at this place?
00:37:07.39\00:37:09.06
You had chickens, didn't you?
00:37:09.09\00:37:10.43
Yeah, we, we could see that
there was a need to demonstrate
00:37:10.46\00:37:16.60
some modern techniques in
how to grow dial chickens.
00:37:16.63\00:37:20.54
And so we got busy
00:37:20.57\00:37:23.30
and organized poultry operation,
00:37:23.34\00:37:27.48
and we would grow meat chickens.
00:37:27.51\00:37:30.28
And they were in
five to six weeks,
00:37:30.31\00:37:32.61
they were ready for sale.
00:37:32.65\00:37:35.32
And so we would,
00:37:35.35\00:37:37.59
it was, it's a difficult thing
00:37:37.62\00:37:39.39
in that we had to
bring food from South Africa
00:37:39.42\00:37:42.76
to actually support
that little industry,
00:37:42.79\00:37:45.63
because a lot of
those things at that stage
00:37:45.66\00:37:47.10
weren't available locally,
00:37:47.13\00:37:48.60
but later on they
did become available.
00:37:48.63\00:37:50.87
But it was a
bit tough initially.
00:37:50.90\00:37:53.60
We were able to
get sorghum locally.
00:37:53.64\00:37:55.77
But to get the balance
that you need for chickens
00:37:55.80\00:37:58.37
to get the production levels up,
00:37:58.41\00:38:01.18
you have to be careful.
00:38:01.21\00:38:02.84
We also got
involved with a small dairy.
00:38:02.88\00:38:06.85
Okay.
00:38:06.88\00:38:08.22
So being a tough
environment there,
00:38:08.25\00:38:13.09
was very hard.
00:38:13.12\00:38:14.46
You can see how dry it is.
00:38:14.49\00:38:16.46
Look where the cows are.
00:38:16.49\00:38:17.83
So they were Friesian cows,
00:38:17.86\00:38:19.26
and so that
produce a bit of milk
00:38:19.29\00:38:21.76
and we would use the
milk for the students.
00:38:21.80\00:38:24.63
And the chickens would
go from those we've got,
00:38:24.67\00:38:27.57
they are about two weeks old.
00:38:27.60\00:38:29.40
And so then
that'd be fully grown
00:38:29.44\00:38:31.61
in five or six weeks.
00:38:31.64\00:38:33.27
Without hormones?
00:38:33.31\00:38:34.64
There was no hormones.
00:38:34.68\00:38:36.34
And so, they're in a building,
00:38:36.38\00:38:38.75
you sign them
all in the building?
00:38:38.78\00:38:40.12
We had them
locked up in an area.
00:38:40.15\00:38:43.92
You've really got to
do that to manage it well,
00:38:43.95\00:38:47.69
because you've got
heat in the summer.
00:38:47.72\00:38:49.79
And so then you've
got to try and manage it.
00:38:49.82\00:38:52.96
Anyone that's
worked with poultry
00:38:52.99\00:38:54.60
knows the challenges.
00:38:54.63\00:38:56.16
I know.
00:38:56.20\00:38:58.30
My question is,
00:38:58.33\00:38:59.67
what sort of meat
type did they usually have,
00:38:59.70\00:39:02.64
was chicken part of that
00:39:02.67\00:39:04.11
or is this
something you're introducing?
00:39:04.14\00:39:05.47
It would have been part of it,
00:39:05.51\00:39:06.84
but Botswana is one of the
largest producers of cattle.
00:39:06.88\00:39:10.05
So they produce
00:39:10.08\00:39:11.41
an enormous amount
of cattle in Botswana.
00:39:11.45\00:39:13.11
They've got big abattoirs
and some big export business.
00:39:13.15\00:39:16.85
So it amaze me that
out in that dry country,
00:39:16.89\00:39:19.45
out in the Kalahari Desert
00:39:19.49\00:39:20.82
and all the
southern part of Botswana,
00:39:20.86\00:39:22.92
there's a lots of cattle.
00:39:22.96\00:39:25.49
They had the massive abattoirs
there in Lobatse really.
00:39:25.53\00:39:29.26
They're very hardy?
00:39:29.30\00:39:31.43
Yeah, they are.
00:39:31.47\00:39:33.20
It's a bit like
Northern Australia.
00:39:33.23\00:39:34.57
That's what I was gonna say.
00:39:34.60\00:39:35.97
It's very hot and dry.
00:39:36.00\00:39:37.34
But when the rain comes,
00:39:37.37\00:39:38.71
everything is lush and green
00:39:38.74\00:39:40.68
and can sustain
a lot of animals.
00:39:40.71\00:39:42.54
Yeah.
00:39:42.58\00:39:43.91
So, Barry,
after you'd been there
00:39:43.95\00:39:45.28
for how long, a
year, and you saw,
00:39:45.31\00:39:48.98
had it been successful,
00:39:49.02\00:39:50.35
hadn't that
within the first year.
00:39:50.39\00:39:52.89
Were you able to
make the payments
00:39:52.92\00:39:55.19
that you required to make
from what you were producing?
00:39:55.22\00:39:58.63
That was the plan
that had to be sustained
00:39:58.66\00:40:00.66
by its own industry,
were you able to do that?
00:40:00.70\00:40:04.27
It's very tough to
try and produce food
00:40:04.30\00:40:09.07
in that environment,
00:40:09.10\00:40:10.54
especially with water so deep.
00:40:10.57\00:40:12.84
So it was hard to,
00:40:12.87\00:40:14.54
was quite
expensive to pump the water.
00:40:14.58\00:40:16.31
Okay, so what
did you use the pump?
00:40:16.34\00:40:18.68
We had a big generator
00:40:18.71\00:40:20.05
and then
submersible pumps off that.
00:40:20.08\00:40:21.42
Okay.
00:40:21.45\00:40:22.78
And also we had
00:40:22.82\00:40:24.15
some of those
mono pumps as well.
00:40:24.19\00:40:25.55
So we put in,
00:40:25.59\00:40:26.92
I think in the end
we put in three bores
00:40:26.96\00:40:28.92
and so to try and
maximize the water.
00:40:28.96\00:40:31.69
And it was tough, but we did,
00:40:31.73\00:40:37.43
we did manage to
sell a lot of veggies.
00:40:37.47\00:40:39.30
So we had shops like
Woolworths in Gaborone,
00:40:39.33\00:40:43.37
in the main
center, the main city,
00:40:43.41\00:40:47.28
where we would take
veggies once or twice a week,
00:40:47.31\00:40:49.81
and deliver them there.
00:40:49.84\00:40:51.18
And then we'd go to other places
00:40:51.21\00:40:52.55
with the truck and sell
00:40:52.58\00:40:53.92
and we'd sell at the farm gate.
00:40:53.95\00:40:55.65
So our income was
actually pretty high.
00:40:55.68\00:40:58.09
And so we also worked,
00:40:58.12\00:41:00.76
we understood the
finances of many students.
00:41:00.79\00:41:03.99
So some students
didn't have the money to come.
00:41:04.03\00:41:07.63
So we would pay
them five pula a day,
00:41:07.66\00:41:10.80
five pula, that's about an
hour that is in money today,
00:41:10.83\00:41:14.27
it would probably
be about $10 Australian
00:41:14.30\00:41:17.71
for a day's work in the garden,
00:41:17.74\00:41:20.61
if they worked on a
Sunday, for example,
00:41:20.64\00:41:22.88
so we would pay them,
00:41:22.91\00:41:24.25
and that would
go off their fees.
00:41:24.28\00:41:25.81
And so we enabled them to
be able to pay their fees.
00:41:25.85\00:41:29.75
That's a good principle
that works too by the way.
00:41:29.78\00:41:31.62
A lot of places do that.
00:41:31.65\00:41:33.89
When you did, you know,
00:41:33.92\00:41:35.42
you must have done
an analysis of the water
00:41:35.46\00:41:37.23
when you brought it up for 500.
00:41:37.26\00:41:38.66
What was it like?
00:41:38.69\00:41:40.03
It was pretty
good. It was surprising.
00:41:40.06\00:41:41.40
So we were worried about salt.
00:41:41.43\00:41:42.86
That was the thing that
we were concerned about.
00:41:42.90\00:41:45.80
But the salt was,
it levels were good.
00:41:45.83\00:41:48.07
And other things like magnesium
00:41:48.10\00:41:49.70
and some of these other levels
00:41:49.74\00:41:51.07
were very
workable and quite good.
00:41:51.11\00:41:53.48
So if you've got
good minor elements
00:41:53.51\00:41:55.88
or trace elements in your water,
00:41:55.91\00:41:57.88
that's a plus because
the vegetables need that.
00:41:57.91\00:42:01.28
And so manganese and zinc
and iron, if all these things,
00:42:01.32\00:42:04.89
if those levels are
reasonable, it's good.
00:42:04.92\00:42:07.46
So the pH was also okay.
00:42:07.49\00:42:10.59
And so the water
was surprisingly good.
00:42:10.63\00:42:12.59
We were able to drink it,
and Bev was able to wash in it.
00:42:12.63\00:42:15.53
And so it wasn't
difficult at all.
00:42:15.56\00:42:17.33
So we're very blessed with that.
00:42:17.37\00:42:20.04
So years gone on,
what was Bev thoughts?
00:42:20.07\00:42:22.17
I know you must
have been talking.
00:42:22.20\00:42:23.87
She wasn't saying,
it's time to go home, Barry?
00:42:23.91\00:42:26.24
No, she was.
00:42:26.27\00:42:29.78
You know, in
hindsight, talking about it,
00:42:29.81\00:42:31.88
since we're back in Australia,
00:42:31.91\00:42:33.48
and we settled back
here a long time ago.
00:42:33.52\00:42:35.72
Looking back, those years
that we were there in Botswana,
00:42:35.75\00:42:39.82
she had a lot of
reaction with the students,
00:42:39.85\00:42:43.99
interaction with the
students on a regular basis,
00:42:44.03\00:42:46.83
more so than
what we would later on
00:42:46.86\00:42:48.20
moving to other places.
00:42:48.23\00:42:49.73
And so she really did enjoy
that opportunity to mix in.
00:42:49.76\00:42:53.44
It was a big deal,
00:42:53.47\00:42:54.80
leaving our
daughter back in Australia.
00:42:54.84\00:42:57.47
We had been a
family orientated group
00:42:57.51\00:43:00.18
and that we'd mix
with other family.
00:43:00.21\00:43:02.64
And now we're on our
own in a strange country.
00:43:02.68\00:43:05.51
So it was not simple,
was not simple honestly.
00:43:05.55\00:43:08.82
So there were no other
national in like yourselves
00:43:08.85\00:43:11.62
there or you were
the only expatriates or?
00:43:11.65\00:43:13.66
Well, what happened was
we were blessed in that,
00:43:13.69\00:43:16.46
there were
three, four Australians
00:43:16.49\00:43:18.56
came out as volunteers.
00:43:18.59\00:43:20.33
So I could see
early on in the project
00:43:20.36\00:43:22.70
that there's no way
00:43:22.73\00:43:24.07
that I can make
this happen by January.
00:43:24.10\00:43:25.43
We got there in
the July, remember.
00:43:25.47\00:43:27.14
So I contacted a few friends.
00:43:27.17\00:43:29.77
And so we had an electrician,
a plumber, and a welder
00:43:29.80\00:43:33.41
volunteered to come out.
00:43:33.44\00:43:35.14
And those guys came
and also my dad came.
00:43:35.18\00:43:38.18
And they came
00:43:38.21\00:43:39.55
and they stayed
there for a while,
00:43:39.58\00:43:41.05
one stayed for three months,
00:43:41.08\00:43:42.42
others stayed for
just a month or so.
00:43:42.45\00:43:44.39
And so we got a real
kick-start on with the project.
00:43:44.42\00:43:47.59
So that helped us
00:43:47.62\00:43:48.96
and then the
local people came in
00:43:48.99\00:43:50.83
and supported that.
00:43:50.86\00:43:52.23
And so I think we had,
00:43:52.26\00:43:54.03
I can't remember now
00:43:54.06\00:43:55.40
but about 40, 000
bags of cement we had
00:43:55.43\00:43:57.93
and they're all delivered
as single bags of cement.
00:43:57.97\00:44:00.44
And there's no mixing
trucks or anything like that,
00:44:00.47\00:44:04.01
was all hand mixed.
00:44:04.04\00:44:06.04
And so it all had
to be done by hand.
00:44:06.07\00:44:07.68
And so you needed a
team of people to do that.
00:44:07.71\00:44:11.21
So I remember one
night we were in bed,
00:44:11.25\00:44:13.62
and we got a call at
about two in the morning.
00:44:13.65\00:44:18.25
And it was the head
man from the village
00:44:18.29\00:44:20.09
came and he said listen,
00:44:20.12\00:44:21.69
there's been a
death in the village,
00:44:21.72\00:44:23.56
out in the village.
00:44:23.59\00:44:24.99
We've got to dig this place
00:44:25.03\00:44:30.27
to bury him, the grave,
00:44:30.30\00:44:32.67
and we can't get
through, solid rock.
00:44:32.70\00:44:35.94
Can you come and help us
or can you help us in some way
00:44:35.97\00:44:37.87
so you get
really unusual requests.
00:44:37.91\00:44:40.08
So we gave him sledgehammer
and a few other things
00:44:40.11\00:44:42.81
and so off they went
and they dug the grave.
00:44:42.84\00:44:45.05
And under this, under
their traditional views,
00:44:45.08\00:44:50.09
it has to be done
before the sun comes up.
00:44:50.12\00:44:52.75
And so I think
they just made it.
00:44:52.79\00:44:54.56
I remember being
involved in a funeral in Nepal.
00:44:57.53\00:45:03.57
One of our old church members
had died in the hospital.
00:45:03.60\00:45:07.37
And in Nepal,
00:45:07.40\00:45:09.50
everybody's cremated
because the Hindu cremation
00:45:09.54\00:45:13.24
and the Christian say
we're not being cremated,
00:45:13.27\00:45:15.64
because that's
what the Hindus do,
00:45:15.68\00:45:17.45
we will be buried.
00:45:17.48\00:45:19.15
But the Hindu government would,
00:45:19.18\00:45:20.88
there was only one place
00:45:20.92\00:45:22.25
where they would allow
Christians to be buried.
00:45:22.28\00:45:24.82
Because you contaminate
the ground, you know,
00:45:24.85\00:45:27.32
you violate the ground,
and you can't buy a coffin.
00:45:27.36\00:45:32.53
So in the middle of the night,
00:45:32.56\00:45:33.90
John and I and few other people
00:45:33.93\00:45:36.26
we're in the hospital building
00:45:36.30\00:45:39.77
a coffin 'cause
there wasn't one.
00:45:39.80\00:45:42.47
And yeah,
00:45:42.50\00:45:43.84
so we had to do the coffin
and they had to put the coffin
00:45:43.87\00:45:47.38
on the back of the ute
the next day at the hospital,
00:45:47.41\00:45:50.21
I had to cover it
over and not let anyone see
00:45:50.25\00:45:52.41
it was a coffin,
00:45:52.45\00:45:53.78
because the people
would be up in arms
00:45:53.82\00:45:55.42
to see a coffin
going through the streets.
00:45:55.45\00:45:57.39
So it was, yeah,
all quite difficult.
00:45:57.42\00:45:59.89
But I'd never
made a coffin before
00:45:59.92\00:46:01.76
and I don't
think John had either.
00:46:01.79\00:46:03.12
It was quite interesting,
but you're called on.
00:46:03.16\00:46:06.06
Yeah, that's right.
00:46:06.09\00:46:07.43
And at extraordinary
times too, extraordinary times.
00:46:07.46\00:46:10.23
And it had to be lined.
00:46:10.27\00:46:12.10
So some of the Nepalis
went often found fabric
00:46:12.13\00:46:15.10
to lawn it all with.
00:46:15.14\00:46:16.47
Cotton wool and
all that sort of stuff.
00:46:16.50\00:46:17.84
Yeah.
00:46:17.87\00:46:19.21
Another thing that
happened while we were there,
00:46:19.24\00:46:20.58
that in that second
year, we were there,
00:46:20.61\00:46:22.24
that Bev got involved in
and our family got involved in.
00:46:22.28\00:46:26.82
The ADRA team had asked
us if we would go to Zambia,
00:46:26.85\00:46:31.65
and start a new project
and go to Caprivi Strip.
00:46:31.69\00:46:35.66
There's a little
narrow strip of land
00:46:35.69\00:46:37.53
between Botswana and Zambia,
00:46:37.56\00:46:41.40
that's called Caprivi Strip,
00:46:41.43\00:46:42.76
that's part of Namibia actually.
00:46:42.80\00:46:44.23
And so these two projects
00:46:44.27\00:46:46.20
actually took us away some time.
00:46:46.23\00:46:47.90
So we went into Zambia.
00:46:47.94\00:46:50.11
And I remember when
we crossed the border,
00:46:50.14\00:46:52.34
I went across the river,
and then went to the customs.
00:46:52.37\00:46:56.04
We had to go through
customs and get all this stuff
00:46:56.08\00:46:58.95
because I was
taking to put this ram pump
00:46:58.98\00:47:01.42
in the river up
there in Chimbambwe.
00:47:01.45\00:47:03.75
Anyway this man came along,
00:47:03.79\00:47:05.12
and he wanted to
do a deal with money.
00:47:05.15\00:47:07.82
And exchange money
on the black market.
00:47:07.86\00:47:10.36
So Bev thought, this
is good, we'll do this.
00:47:10.39\00:47:11.89
So she did it.
00:47:11.93\00:47:14.00
And then when
we got up the road,
00:47:14.03\00:47:16.16
a couple of kilometers,
00:47:16.20\00:47:17.53
she counted the money
00:47:17.57\00:47:18.90
and realized that
she'd been diddled.
00:47:18.93\00:47:20.27
Yes.
00:47:20.30\00:47:21.64
So there are things that happen.
00:47:21.67\00:47:23.00
So you've just
got to be so sharp
00:47:23.04\00:47:24.57
about how you
do stuff like that.
00:47:24.61\00:47:25.94
It was happening
in Bali to everybody.
00:47:25.97\00:47:28.64
Yeah.
00:47:28.68\00:47:30.01
So, you know, I
was thinking of Bev,
00:47:30.05\00:47:32.48
you know, we've
talked to other people
00:47:32.51\00:47:33.98
who have gone out
like you and your wife,
00:47:34.02\00:47:35.98
and the wife becomes
the nurse, the doctor.
00:47:36.02\00:47:39.32
Did Bev have to do that,
00:47:39.35\00:47:40.69
you know, if
someone hurt themselves,
00:47:40.72\00:47:42.12
they come to see the
memsahib or white nurse.
00:47:42.16\00:47:46.63
It happened a couple of times
00:47:46.66\00:47:48.30
at Chimbambwe
where we went to Zambia
00:47:48.33\00:47:49.93
to help with
signing up project there.
00:47:49.96\00:47:51.77
One Friday afternoon,
00:47:51.80\00:47:53.13
this lady came along and
her arm had all swollen up.
00:47:53.17\00:47:55.60
And it was just like a
balloon, was puffed right up.
00:47:55.64\00:47:58.94
And she said,
00:47:58.97\00:48:00.31
"You white woman,
you know what to do,
00:48:00.34\00:48:03.35
you know medicine."
00:48:03.38\00:48:05.05
And Bev said,
00:48:05.08\00:48:06.41
"No, I don't know
anything what to do."
00:48:06.45\00:48:07.92
And so, anyway,
00:48:07.95\00:48:11.05
we took her
aside and they've said,
00:48:11.09\00:48:13.46
"Let's wrap her arm
up with cabbage leaves,
00:48:13.49\00:48:17.23
and with a paper towel,
00:48:17.26\00:48:20.63
and just try and let it settle."
00:48:20.66\00:48:23.67
So we did,
00:48:23.70\00:48:25.03
and we thought
should we did in the morning
00:48:25.07\00:48:26.84
because she had been
bitten by a puff adder.
00:48:26.87\00:48:29.50
And the puff
adder had penetrated
00:48:29.54\00:48:32.01
and the poison made it swell up.
00:48:32.04\00:48:34.14
She had been to the
witch doctor already.
00:48:34.18\00:48:36.41
The witch doctor
couldn't do anything, of course.
00:48:36.44\00:48:38.58
And so here was Bev trying
to administer to this woman.
00:48:38.61\00:48:41.25
We had no medication.
00:48:41.28\00:48:43.12
And so there's
nothing we could do.
00:48:43.15\00:48:45.49
So we got these
cabbage leaves and put it on.
00:48:45.52\00:48:47.46
And so as you know,
00:48:47.49\00:48:48.82
cabbage leaves
will draw stuff out.
00:48:48.86\00:48:51.03
Going to Sabbath school
the next morning to church,
00:48:51.06\00:48:52.89
the next day we
expected that to hear the news
00:48:52.93\00:48:55.63
that this lady have
passed away in the night.
00:48:55.66\00:48:57.63
And here she is sitting in
the front seat in the church
00:48:57.67\00:49:00.14
happily singing away.
00:49:00.17\00:49:01.84
And we just amazed
00:49:01.87\00:49:03.54
how God just
enabled that clear thinking
00:49:03.57\00:49:08.28
to actually perform a
miracle just like that.
00:49:08.31\00:49:10.61
Now, you mentioned,
00:49:10.65\00:49:11.98
you're obviously
out in this place.
00:49:12.01\00:49:13.75
When you started
there with a caravan,
00:49:13.78\00:49:15.15
there's no church there, is it?
00:49:15.18\00:49:16.52
No.
00:49:16.55\00:49:18.29
You said there
were a few Adventists
00:49:18.32\00:49:19.92
coming to do the
agricultural courses.
00:49:19.95\00:49:21.96
So what did you
do with your family
00:49:21.99\00:49:23.93
on the Sabbath out there in?
00:49:23.96\00:49:26.29
So we would run the
normal church program
00:49:26.33\00:49:30.00
of three hymns and a
prayer and Sabbath School lesson
00:49:30.03\00:49:34.00
we'd do that every week.
00:49:34.04\00:49:35.37
And so the students
would all participate,
00:49:35.40\00:49:38.24
it was not a forced thing.
00:49:38.27\00:49:39.91
They were given the
option to go to town or to stay.
00:49:39.94\00:49:43.58
I think most of them 98%
of the time stayed there.
00:49:43.61\00:49:47.92
And so they were involved
00:49:47.95\00:49:49.78
in hearing messages
and stories from the Bible
00:49:49.82\00:49:53.49
and stories about
life and stuff like that.
00:49:53.52\00:49:56.39
And so, yeah, that
was a great time to share.
00:49:56.42\00:49:59.49
So who did the preaching?
00:49:59.53\00:50:01.13
Well, I did a fair bit of it.
00:50:01.16\00:50:02.73
And also some others
were roped into it as well,
00:50:02.76\00:50:05.60
some people that we
knew of around the area,
00:50:05.63\00:50:08.40
there weren't too
many of them, but...
00:50:08.44\00:50:10.21
So you didn't
become the weekly pastor?
00:50:10.24\00:50:11.64
Yeah.
00:50:11.67\00:50:13.01
So our children, two
boys that were there.
00:50:13.04\00:50:15.38
They were
involved in the program,
00:50:15.41\00:50:17.11
like we got them involved
with best that we could.
00:50:17.15\00:50:19.85
So how did they
assimilate with the other kids
00:50:19.88\00:50:21.95
or did they, you know?
00:50:21.98\00:50:23.39
Well, you said
that Hayden did well.
00:50:23.42\00:50:24.75
Yeah, Hayden did very well.
00:50:24.79\00:50:26.12
It was harder for Justin
00:50:26.15\00:50:27.49
because he was
under pressure to study.
00:50:27.52\00:50:28.89
But he connected
00:50:28.92\00:50:30.89
and his
connection was in other ways.
00:50:30.93\00:50:33.40
So like, he got a bit
involved in photography
00:50:33.43\00:50:35.70
and stuff like that.
00:50:35.73\00:50:37.07
So we went to Victoria
Falls about five times.
00:50:37.10\00:50:39.97
And we went,
00:50:40.00\00:50:41.34
took time to go
00:50:41.37\00:50:42.70
and have a look at some
of the animals in the wild
00:50:42.74\00:50:44.27
and stuff like that,
00:50:44.31\00:50:45.67
so got to
experience different things.
00:50:45.71\00:50:47.48
So, yeah, what sort of
wild animals were there
00:50:47.51\00:50:49.81
in the vicinity?
00:50:49.84\00:50:51.18
You had anything that
affected your gardens?
00:50:51.21\00:50:53.21
Yeah, there
were, there were some,
00:50:53.25\00:50:55.18
there were some
deer that small gazelle,
00:50:55.22\00:50:58.45
these sort of things that
would come in and eat and other,
00:50:58.49\00:51:02.92
guinea fowl and things
that would eat all the maize
00:51:02.96\00:51:05.06
and stuff like that.
00:51:05.09\00:51:06.43
So there were no
big nasty animals there.
00:51:06.46\00:51:08.26
Oh, that's good.
00:51:08.30\00:51:09.63
I was thinking
about... No buffaloes, no lions.
00:51:09.66\00:51:11.40
No leopards.
00:51:11.43\00:51:12.77
Yeah, that would
make a little bit
00:51:12.80\00:51:14.34
more interesting
story, wouldn't it?
00:51:14.37\00:51:15.80
But, so you both survived there.
00:51:15.84\00:51:19.64
And you did accomplish
00:51:19.67\00:51:21.28
what you went there
to do, is that right?
00:51:21.31\00:51:22.94
Yeah.
00:51:22.98\00:51:24.31
So at the end of two years,
00:51:24.35\00:51:25.71
the place, we had
money in the bank,
00:51:25.75\00:51:28.78
and we had appointed people
to take over the leadership,
00:51:28.82\00:51:31.35
they were nationals.
00:51:31.39\00:51:32.72
Yes.
00:51:32.75\00:51:34.09
And so they did that.
00:51:34.12\00:51:35.46
So they took over
00:51:35.49\00:51:36.83
and we were asked to
go on another assignment.
00:51:36.86\00:51:38.19
That was part
00:51:38.23\00:51:39.56
of the humanitarian work
of ADRA in training people
00:51:39.59\00:51:41.56
then to take over and continue.
00:51:41.60\00:51:43.60
That's right.
That's a really good story.
00:51:43.63\00:51:45.37
It's like, they say,
00:51:45.40\00:51:48.54
"Don't feed the person
fish, teach him to fish.
00:51:48.57\00:51:52.14
Give him the fishing line."
00:51:52.17\00:51:53.51
That's right.
00:51:53.54\00:51:54.88
And that's basically
00:51:54.91\00:51:56.24
what was being
done in that project.
00:51:56.28\00:51:57.61
You weren't
just growing the food
00:51:57.65\00:51:59.71
to give to the people,
00:51:59.75\00:52:01.08
you were teaching them to
grow the food for themselves
00:52:01.12\00:52:03.69
and to even have
an income from it.
00:52:03.72\00:52:05.65
That's right.
That's very interesting.
00:52:05.69\00:52:07.02
Because just the
other day, I got on Google,
00:52:07.06\00:52:10.69
and had a look at
Google Maps to actually see
00:52:10.73\00:52:13.40
what has happened to this place,
00:52:13.43\00:52:14.76
has it gone back to desert?
00:52:14.80\00:52:16.13
What's actually going on there?
00:52:16.16\00:52:17.63
Because when we went there,
00:52:17.67\00:52:20.54
the Minister for
Agriculture told us,
00:52:20.57\00:52:22.67
Barry, this
project is going to fail.
00:52:22.70\00:52:25.27
We've humored you by
supporting you for two years
00:52:25.31\00:52:27.58
to take advantage
00:52:27.61\00:52:28.94
of your country's government's
funding, it's going to fail.
00:52:28.98\00:52:32.78
So when you look on Google now,
00:52:32.81\00:52:35.08
you actually see the place
00:52:35.12\00:52:37.29
and it's been fully developed
00:52:37.32\00:52:38.82
as a vocational training school
00:52:38.85\00:52:40.59
operated now by the
Botswana government.
00:52:40.62\00:52:43.22
So it's called Barolong
Vocational Training School.
00:52:43.26\00:52:47.50
And it's still operating
and operating very well.
00:52:47.53\00:52:49.93
That's great. So
what do they teach in now?
00:52:49.96\00:52:52.07
It's still the gardening?
00:52:52.10\00:52:53.44
They got all the other things,
so carpentry, electrical,
00:52:53.47\00:52:55.74
all the other
trades are all there.
00:52:55.77\00:52:59.34
I don't know all of them.
00:52:59.37\00:53:00.71
But it's quite
something to look down
00:53:00.74\00:53:03.14
and see it now and think,
00:53:03.18\00:53:04.51
wow, there's three times
00:53:04.55\00:53:06.82
as many buildings
as what we had made.
00:53:06.85\00:53:09.08
Well, I think it's time
we can have a break now,
00:53:09.12\00:53:11.05
you know, and I'd encourage
you to take note of our address.
00:53:11.09\00:53:15.92
If you've got any questions
about the program or you know,
00:53:15.96\00:53:19.03
someone else who may
have stories like Barry
00:53:19.06\00:53:22.30
and the work
they've done as missionaries
00:53:22.33\00:53:25.07
or workers overseas,
00:53:25.10\00:53:26.97
expats and I just ask
you to take our address down,
00:53:27.00\00:53:30.84
drop us a line and
tell us what you think.
00:53:30.87\00:53:34.68
If you would like to
contact 3ABN Australia,
00:53:37.71\00:53:39.95
you may do so in
the following ways.
00:53:39.98\00:53:41.88
You may write to 3ABN
Australia, PO Box 752,
00:53:41.92\00:53:46.19
Morisset, New South
Wales 2264, Australia.
00:53:46.22\00:53:50.26
That's PO Box 752, Morisset,
00:53:50.29\00:53:53.96
New South Wales 2264, Australia.
00:53:54.00\00:53:57.20
Or you may call 02-4973-3456.
00:53:57.23\00:54:01.94
That's 02-4973-3456
00:54:01.97\00:54:06.11
from 8:30 am to 5
pm Monday to Thursday,
00:54:06.14\00:54:09.78
or 8:30 am to 12 pm
Fridays, New South Wales time.
00:54:09.81\00:54:14.98
You may also email us at
mail@3abnaustralia.org.au.
00:54:15.02\00:54:20.72
That's mail@3abnaustralia.org.au
00:54:20.76\00:54:28.23
Thank you for all you do
00:54:28.26\00:54:29.60
to help us light the world
with the glory of God's truth.
00:54:29.63\00:54:32.50
You know, Bev and
Barry have given their early
00:54:36.20\00:54:40.24
or a good part of
the years of their life,
00:54:40.28\00:54:42.18
haven't you really to go
and work in another country
00:54:42.21\00:54:45.05
for the benefit of others.
00:54:45.08\00:54:46.92
And I'd encourage others
00:54:46.95\00:54:48.52
who may be watching this program
00:54:48.55\00:54:50.79
that you know we
all can do something,
00:54:50.82\00:54:53.05
we don't have to
stay in our normal place
00:54:53.09\00:54:55.49
where we're
complacent and happy to be.
00:54:55.52\00:54:57.69
Sometimes we've got to step
out to gain a better experience
00:54:57.73\00:55:00.70
and to learn how much
more we can trust in God.
00:55:00.73\00:55:03.83
Barry mentioned, you mentioned,
00:55:03.87\00:55:05.20
Barry, that you know,
00:55:05.23\00:55:07.44
you did the
normal Sabbath activities
00:55:07.47\00:55:09.80
as you grew up as a
Seventh-day Adventist.
00:55:09.84\00:55:12.67
Looking back,
00:55:12.71\00:55:14.04
you don't know the impact
00:55:14.08\00:55:15.41
that you would
have had on the people.
00:55:15.44\00:55:17.31
But it's important to
show your faith, isn't it?
00:55:17.35\00:55:19.78
Yes, it is.
00:55:19.81\00:55:21.15
And so, you got
involved in Sabbath worship.
00:55:21.18\00:55:24.55
And that's probably
something a lot of them
00:55:24.59\00:55:26.12
would not have really
understood or known about.
00:55:26.15\00:55:30.23
Did that have an impact
00:55:30.26\00:55:31.59
on the lives of
the people there?
00:55:31.63\00:55:33.23
Yeah, I think it did.
00:55:33.26\00:55:34.60
It was very interesting,
00:55:34.63\00:55:35.96
because the management committee
00:55:36.00\00:55:37.77
was made up of local
people who were not Adventist.
00:55:37.80\00:55:39.97
Okay.
00:55:40.00\00:55:41.34
And so it was, the
Adventist involvement
00:55:41.37\00:55:43.81
was very small in
terms of numbers of people.
00:55:43.84\00:55:46.37
And so,
00:55:46.41\00:55:47.74
I think they really
appreciated and valued,
00:55:47.78\00:55:50.38
that we stood for
something that we said,
00:55:50.41\00:55:52.78
"No, you can't do
these things on this site."
00:55:52.81\00:55:55.98
No, alcohol is not permitted,
all these sort of things.
00:55:56.02\00:55:58.12
So we had strict
rules about behavior...
00:55:58.15\00:56:01.76
And no work on the Sabbath?
00:56:01.79\00:56:03.12
That's right. No
work on the Sabbath.
00:56:03.16\00:56:04.49
And the community
really supported that.
00:56:04.53\00:56:06.80
So there was a
big witness there.
00:56:06.83\00:56:09.46
And also, what sort of,
00:56:09.50\00:56:11.20
were they people that
you've helped the students?
00:56:11.23\00:56:14.27
Were they only from
basically a localized area?
00:56:14.30\00:56:17.87
Or did they come
from further afield?
00:56:17.91\00:56:19.24
From the whole country.
00:56:19.27\00:56:20.61
So whole of Botswana?
00:56:20.64\00:56:21.98
So some people came
from long way away. Yeah.
00:56:22.01\00:56:23.35
Very good.
00:56:23.38\00:56:24.71
So it wasn't just the local area
00:56:24.75\00:56:26.18
that you were
helping, that's really good.
00:56:26.21\00:56:28.85
That would have meant
00:56:28.88\00:56:30.22
there will be a
continual influx of students.
00:56:30.25\00:56:33.66
So we took a bit of
controlling and managing that,
00:56:33.69\00:56:36.56
but they were coming
from north, a 1000 Ks away.
00:56:36.59\00:56:40.66
Very good. So you
finish that project.
00:56:40.70\00:56:42.46
Yeah.
00:56:42.50\00:56:43.83
And then you are sailing back
or flying back to Australia.
00:56:43.87\00:56:46.84
But something happened,
where were you called to go?
00:56:46.87\00:56:49.80
So they asked me to
go and serve in Uganda
00:56:49.84\00:56:51.74
as the ADRA director there.
00:56:51.77\00:56:53.61
And so that was in '91,
in the middle part of '91.
00:56:53.64\00:56:58.41
So we went there
exactly to the day,
00:56:58.45\00:57:00.75
two years after
we arrived in Uganda.
00:57:00.78\00:57:02.68
Two years later,
00:57:02.72\00:57:04.05
we arrived in I
mean, in Botswana,
00:57:04.09\00:57:05.62
two days later,
00:57:05.65\00:57:06.99
we arrived in
Uganda on the same day.
00:57:07.02\00:57:08.36
So you continue that
same sort of experience
00:57:08.39\00:57:11.03
working in
another part of Africa.
00:57:11.06\00:57:14.56
And we're going to
be talking to Barry
00:57:14.60\00:57:17.07
again in the next program,
00:57:17.10\00:57:18.50
about his experiences in Uganda.
00:57:18.53\00:57:20.24
That's a special instance
00:57:20.27\00:57:22.90
where something happened there.
00:57:22.94\00:57:24.61
I'm not going to
tell you about it.
00:57:24.64\00:57:25.97
You have to watch
the program reset.
00:57:26.01\00:57:27.68
So, Barry?
00:57:27.71\00:57:29.04
Something interesting
happened in the world,
00:57:29.08\00:57:31.05
something tragic. Yes, it did.
00:57:31.08\00:57:33.72
You want me to
tell you what it was?
00:57:33.75\00:57:35.08
No!
00:57:35.12\00:57:36.45
We're gonna wait
until, we'll wait.
00:57:36.48\00:57:37.82
But you were there for?
00:57:37.85\00:57:39.19
Yes, I was there
for the whole thing.
00:57:39.22\00:57:40.56
Thanks for being on the program.
00:57:40.59\00:57:41.92
Until the next program,
00:57:41.96\00:57:43.29
we want to thank
you for supporting 3ABN.
00:57:43.32\00:57:45.96
God bless.
00:57:45.99\00:57:47.33