This is 3ABN Now
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with John and
Rosemary Malkiewycz.
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Hello and welcome to 3ABN Now.
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Thank you that
you've taken the time
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to watch this program.
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3ABN Now has been going
for a number of years now.
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And we've had various
guests on the program.
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But today's program
is really a continuation
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of another program
that we earlier had
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and that's with David Fiedler.
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And he's the
author of three books
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that I'm aware of.
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One of them is called Tremble,
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and the other
one is called D'Sozo.
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And he had another
book called Hindsight.
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Hindsight.
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Hindsight is
something we all think
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is a great thing, isn't it?
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You know, what would we do
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if we knew ahead of
time different things?
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Well, I always said
hindsight is a great thing
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when you learn
from somebody else.
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Yeah. There you go.
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You don't want to
have your own hindsight,
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because that's usually
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because you did something wrong.
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And that was the goal,
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was just a
collection of the stories
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of Adventist history
that I thought were important
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and had a lesson to learn.
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And I'd rather learn from them
than do the same thing myself.
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Yes, but we're bit
slow on that sometimes,
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aren't we, Dave?
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Yeah. Some of us.
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But some of us, that's true.
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Some more than others. Yeah.
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But Dave is also historian
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and particularly
in Adventist history.
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And in the last program,
we touched on Dr. Kellogg.
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Now he was a physician,
Dave, that's right, isn't it?
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He was a physician. Yes, he was.
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He started the work,
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early work of health
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in the
Seventh-day Adventist Church
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and we'll go get Dave
to clarify a little bit
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about that being the historian
he is but before we do that,
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there's a text in the
Bible that Dave's chosen that
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we would like to read
and that Dave comment on.
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Okay.
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It's right at
the back of the book.
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Dave Fiedler has
chosen Revelation 22:13.
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It's very short.
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And to the point.
Very to the point.
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"I am," says
Jesus, "Alpha and Omega,
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the beginning and the
end, the first and the last."
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Now, I want to know
why you chose that verse
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for what you're
going to talk about today?
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We will be...
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Well, it's impossible
to talk about Dr. Kellogg
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without eventually ending up
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addressing what
Ellen White referred to
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as the alpha of apostasy.
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And in that context,
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she warned that
there would be an Omega
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that would follow
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and so I am the
Alpha and the Omega.
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This kind of sets
the tone and gives the...
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It's like the
beginning and the end.
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Yes.
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The beginning and the end,
the first and the last, yeah.
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I suppose you could
say, this is Jesus saying,
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"I am the Alpha and Omega,"
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but there was a counterfeit
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that end up being
the alpha of apostasy.
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Indeed.
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And then there'll be the
alpha of, the omega of apostasy.
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Yes.
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You know, if you
go back, I don't know,
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to the early years of 3ABN
in the United States at least,
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I still remember
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one of the little
catch lines that they used.
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Do you remember that? Yeah.
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Counteracting
the counterfeit, yes.
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That's pretty good, actually.
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And the devil's work
is always counterfeit.
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And so, there is the
Christ, the Alpha and Omega,
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and then there is
the alpha and the omega
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of Lucifer's efforts
as well in these days.
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So there's a great
controversy raging, isn't there?
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And, you know, the
Bible reveals that to us
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in a very definite manner.
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Yes.
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And really what
it comes down to,
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it's like the
three angels' messages.
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You have God's truth,
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you have Satan's
lies, you choose.
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So you have to choose.
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So when we deal
with the Alpha and Omega,
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you really have to choose.
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Yes, it will
split the world down
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into two parties.
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The alpha and omega of
apostasy is obvious within,
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basically the opposite of God.
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Indeed, the opposite
and yet the counterfeit.
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Yeah, so how do you make
something that's the opposite
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and have it
look the same though?
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That's the tricky part. Yes.
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So with Dr. Kellogg,
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put us in the right
historical time frame
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of when he began the
work and what was involved?
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Dr. Kellogg got
his medical education
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in the early 1870s.
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And he became
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the medical director
of the denominations,
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Seventh-day Adventist
denomination's flagship.
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Medical Institute
at the time was known
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as the Western
Health Reform Institute.
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And he became
the medical director
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when he was 24 years old.
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Young man. Young man in 1876.
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In fact, he didn't want the job.
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And he fought them off
for a couple of, you know,
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for many months.
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They wanted him to take the job.
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And he said, "No, no, no, no."
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And he would never say why.
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But the suspicion is that
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he was frankly afraid
of the patient's reactions
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because of his youth.
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Not only was he
young, he looked young.
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And when he
finally accepted the job,
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his premonitions
were perhaps correct,
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because one
quarter of the patients
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took one look at him
and walked out the door.
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They said, "Nope, not me."
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He was right.
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He was, yeah, so it
was a bit of a rocky start.
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But, you know, one of
the first things he did
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without bothering to ask
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the permission of
the board of directors,
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he changed the name.
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He said people are
tired of being reformed.
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From now on, this will be
the Battle Creek Sanitarium.
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And actually he
made up that word.
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There was no such word.
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In Australia you're
quite used to sanitarium, yes,
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but there was
the word sanatorium,
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which was a medical facility
for tuberculosis patients.
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But there's no such
thing as a sanitarium,
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that was a newly
coined phrase or term.
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And so people asked and
said, "What's that mean?
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And he said, "It
will come to mean
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the place where
people go to learn
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to stay well."
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So he always had an
educational component
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in his mind,
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you know, it was
not just curative,
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it was always to be to
address the broader picture
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of the, you know, the
person's physical needs
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and the future
as well as the past.
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So, that was 1876.
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And, you know, for our purposes,
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we'll pass over
the next 12 years.
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And there were
things that happened
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and there's some
interesting stories there
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and he got married
and, you know, life went on.
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But for us, really the,
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probably the next
key event comes in 1888.
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You may have heard
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of the 1888
General Conference Session
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for Seventh-day Adventists
who are into their history,
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they may recognize this
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as the session with
A.T. Jones and E.J. Wagner
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and righteousness by faith
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and that whole
discussion which is,
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you could probably do
several segments on that too
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but we won't know.
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Ellen White wrote an
interesting statement.
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She said, "After the
meeting at Minneapolis,
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Dr. Kellogg was a converted
man and we all knew it.
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We could see the
converting power of God
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working in his heart and life."
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Well, you know,
when I read that,
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I was intrigued.
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I have a bit of a sense
of curiosity, shall we say?
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And if you can,
all of a sudden see
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that the man is different,
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my question was,
what was different?
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What was different?
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Yeah, what was he
doing wrong before you know?
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And so, and I
addressed this in class,
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or something I
always actually did.
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Does that mean he
stopped going to the bar
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and getting
drunk on Friday nights?
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No.
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No, he did not
stop going to the bar
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and getting drunk with friends.
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He never had.
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You know, that's rumor
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'cause he never had gone
to the bar on Friday nights.
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But what was different?
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And really what
it boils down to,
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is he started
being nice to people.
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And that sounds
anticlimactic, I know.
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But that's what
converted people do.
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And...
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There's a change in heart
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and the attitude towards others.
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He had a change in heart
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and he set down
a different path.
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And you know, Dr. Kellogg,
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I've to just tell you
some stories about Dr. Kellogg
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because he's not a
mere mortal like myself
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and possibly you and
maybe some of our audience.
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He was somewhere beyond me.
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Every morning Dr.
Kellogg would bound
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out of bed,
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get dressed and run downstairs
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and outside in
front of his house
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and there was a
large circular paved area.
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And he would jump on his bike
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and ride round and round
and round furiously in circles
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in this paved area
to get his exercise.
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Well, that's great.
Okay, so exercise is good.
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But mere mortals
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would have gone
down the roadways
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to see some scenery.
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Why is he going round and
round and round in circles?
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Well, the answer to that is
in the center of that circle,
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sitting on a stool
was a stenographer,
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taking dictation.
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Kellogg could dictate a book,
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skip the
proofreading just print it.
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He wrote 54 I think it
was books in his lifetime.
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I think 54.
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Fifty four, something like that.
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Yeah.
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He's riding fast on his bike
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and he's at the
same time dictating,
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thinking and speaking
while he's pedaling fast.
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I'd be tired out.
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Yeah, yeah, and that's
good aerobic exercise, I guess.
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But Kellogg was just, he
was that level of special,
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let's put that way.
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Okay.
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So many, so many
little stories I can tell.
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When he went on a train,
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of course, they
didn't have planes
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in those days, you know.
00:10:06.13\00:10:07.47
But Kellogg was the
00:10:07.50\00:10:08.84
super-duper
platinum frequent flyer guy
00:10:08.87\00:10:11.21
for the trains, you know.
00:10:11.24\00:10:13.48
And when he
went on a train trip,
00:10:13.51\00:10:17.05
he would take two
stenographers with him
00:10:17.08\00:10:19.61
and they'd get on the train
00:10:19.65\00:10:21.75
and he would dictate
for eight hours to one guy
00:10:21.78\00:10:25.32
and he'd get off
00:10:25.35\00:10:26.76
and ride back home to the office
00:10:26.79\00:10:28.19
as they're typing it all up
00:10:28.22\00:10:29.56
and Kellogg would
just immediately start it
00:10:29.59\00:10:30.93
on the second guy.
00:10:30.96\00:10:32.29
And when he was done
with his two stenographers,
00:10:32.33\00:10:35.60
he had a piece of kid leather,
00:10:35.63\00:10:42.27
you know, the very soft
baby goat kid leather, right,
00:10:42.30\00:10:45.07
about the size of
a good handkerchief.
00:10:45.11\00:10:48.11
And he would take
his fingers like this
00:10:48.14\00:10:50.55
and he'd make this circle
00:10:50.58\00:10:51.91
and he'd lay this
leather on top of it.
00:10:51.95\00:10:54.12
And then he'd poke it
down inside so he had a pouch
00:10:54.15\00:10:58.02
and then with his other hand
00:10:58.05\00:11:00.12
he would practice sutures
00:11:00.16\00:11:03.96
in the bottom of this leather
00:11:03.99\00:11:07.73
with his little
suturing needle and whatnot.
00:11:07.76\00:11:10.50
And he became an
excellent surgeon.
00:11:10.53\00:11:13.10
He actually, at the time,
00:11:13.13\00:11:15.80
it was about the average
00:11:15.84\00:11:18.44
was between 20 and 25%. fatality
00:11:18.47\00:11:22.88
the moment you
entered the thoracic cavity.
00:11:22.91\00:11:27.28
He set a record, I think
it was 164 without a fatality,
00:11:27.32\00:11:30.65
something like that
164 consecutive surgeries
00:11:30.69\00:11:32.92
without fatality.
00:11:32.95\00:11:35.19
For years was up...
00:11:35.22\00:11:36.56
So he was very
unique in as a person
00:11:36.59\00:11:40.70
and the time he spent
00:11:40.73\00:11:43.26
and showed that he
didn't waste any time at all.
00:11:43.30\00:11:46.47
He did not waste any time
00:11:46.50\00:11:47.94
and he was totally
devoted to his work.
00:11:47.97\00:11:52.74
He was a workaholic.
00:11:52.77\00:11:54.28
You could say he
was a workaholic.
00:11:54.31\00:11:55.64
You could probably say that
00:11:55.68\00:11:57.01
and yet he never
seemed to visibly tire.
00:11:57.05\00:12:01.45
Now you have a good point
00:12:01.48\00:12:02.82
because that's one of the points
00:12:02.85\00:12:05.85
that Ellen White writes to
him time after time after time.
00:12:05.89\00:12:08.46
She's saying, "You're
trying to do too much.
00:12:08.49\00:12:11.03
You're not giving yourself
the time to think clearly
00:12:11.06\00:12:12.99
on what you're doing."
00:12:13.03\00:12:14.36
And so he was in
fact, a workaholic,
00:12:14.40\00:12:15.96
but visibly you
couldn't see that he tired.
00:12:16.00\00:12:17.83
He was one of those
that, you know, there are...
00:12:17.87\00:12:20.27
There's a small
percentage of population
00:12:20.30\00:12:22.30
that just
doesn't need much sleep.
00:12:22.34\00:12:24.21
He rarely slept more
than four hours a night.
00:12:24.24\00:12:26.27
That's
extraordinary, really. Yeah.
00:12:26.31\00:12:27.74
And he just...
00:12:27.78\00:12:30.28
I don't know if you had
that commercial over here.
00:12:30.31\00:12:31.65
But you know, like
the Energizer Bunny
00:12:31.68\00:12:33.72
you know, they
have this commercial
00:12:33.75\00:12:35.08
and says that
it just keeps going
00:12:35.12\00:12:36.45
and going and going.
00:12:36.48\00:12:37.82
I mean, these
days I come outside,
00:12:37.85\00:12:39.19
I don't watch TV.
00:12:39.22\00:12:40.82
But, yeah, he was like that.
00:12:40.86\00:12:43.26
And he just really kept going.
00:12:43.29\00:12:46.83
There was one
particular instance
00:12:46.86\00:12:48.26
in the 1890s
00:12:48.30\00:12:49.86
that really speaks to
the source of his success.
00:12:49.90\00:12:55.10
He was talking
00:12:55.14\00:12:56.47
with one of his
closest friends and colleagues,
00:12:56.50\00:12:59.14
Dr. David Paulson.
00:12:59.17\00:13:01.48
And he said,
00:13:01.51\00:13:02.84
"Dr. Paulson, do
you know how it is
00:13:02.88\00:13:04.98
that I stay five years
ahead of the medical industry?"
00:13:05.01\00:13:10.82
And Paulson said,
"No, nobody knows how, "
00:13:10.85\00:13:13.49
and they all wonder, basically.
00:13:13.52\00:13:16.39
And he said,
00:13:16.42\00:13:18.03
"I know from my reading
of the Spirit of Prophecy.
00:13:18.06\00:13:20.83
Anytime a new medical technique
00:13:20.86\00:13:22.86
or method or theory comes along,
00:13:22.90\00:13:26.00
I know from my reading
of the Spirit of Prophecy,
00:13:26.03\00:13:27.37
I know immediately
00:13:27.40\00:13:28.74
whether it belongs
in our system or not.
00:13:28.77\00:13:30.31
If it belongs, I
grab it and run with it.
00:13:30.34\00:13:34.08
If it doesn't, I
just never touch it.
00:13:34.11\00:13:37.01
And so, for
something that was new,
00:13:37.05\00:13:39.35
that ended up being good,
00:13:39.38\00:13:40.78
he had a five-year head start
00:13:40.82\00:13:42.15
while everybody else is running
careful little tests and trials
00:13:42.18\00:13:45.12
for those things that
when a fad came in that,
00:13:45.15\00:13:47.59
you know, swept
everyone off their feet
00:13:47.62\00:13:49.06
and Kellogg didn't touch it,
00:13:49.09\00:13:50.43
you know, it
took them five years
00:13:50.46\00:13:51.79
and they figured out
how did he not get caught
00:13:51.83\00:13:53.26
like the rest of
us, you know, typically.
00:13:53.29\00:13:55.26
And the point there is
that throughout his career,
00:13:55.30\00:14:01.00
his success really rose and fell
00:14:01.04\00:14:04.74
with his
acceptance and adherence
00:14:04.77\00:14:07.71
to the council of
Spirit of Prophecy.
00:14:07.74\00:14:11.38
Maybe just unpack
that a little bit about
00:14:11.41\00:14:13.45
because some
viewers might not know
00:14:13.48\00:14:14.85
when you refer to
the Spirit of Prophecy.
00:14:14.88\00:14:17.19
These are writings
00:14:17.22\00:14:18.55
that God revealed
to a messenger here.
00:14:18.59\00:14:21.12
Her name was Ellen White. Yes.
00:14:21.16\00:14:23.32
Our prophetess.
00:14:23.36\00:14:24.73
And as a
Seventh-day Adventist Church,
00:14:24.76\00:14:27.03
we don't...
00:14:27.06\00:14:28.40
Her writings are a lesser
light to the greater light,
00:14:28.43\00:14:31.50
which is the Word of God.
00:14:31.53\00:14:32.90
But she had a lot of counsel
from God relating to health.
00:14:32.93\00:14:35.84
Indeed. Indeed.
00:14:35.87\00:14:37.21
And much of what
she wrote is now today,
00:14:37.24\00:14:41.24
just in recent years
been proven to be true,
00:14:41.28\00:14:44.78
even though she
wrote them 150 years ago.
00:14:44.81\00:14:47.52
Yes, yeah.
00:14:47.55\00:14:48.88
Her track record is
definitely admirable.
00:14:48.92\00:14:52.69
And he got a hold of that
and he knew the value of that.
00:14:52.72\00:14:56.26
She recognized the value of him.
00:14:56.29\00:14:59.73
And she
supported and assisted him
00:14:59.76\00:15:03.06
probably like no
other individual,
00:15:03.10\00:15:06.87
as long as he
would listen, you know.
00:15:06.90\00:15:08.84
When he stopped listening
00:15:08.87\00:15:10.21
and she didn't
immediately just cut him off,
00:15:10.24\00:15:11.77
I'm not saying that.
00:15:11.81\00:15:13.14
But when he
stopped listening to her,
00:15:13.17\00:15:19.55
he stopped in areas
that you wouldn't think
00:15:19.58\00:15:21.88
would affect his
medical practice.
00:15:21.92\00:15:24.82
You know, but it's funny
00:15:24.85\00:15:26.32
how in life obedience
00:15:26.35\00:15:29.52
tends to bleed into other areas,
00:15:29.56\00:15:31.26
let's put that way, you know.
00:15:31.29\00:15:32.63
And when he stopped listening
00:15:32.66\00:15:34.86
in what we might
think of as simple ways,
00:15:34.90\00:15:38.60
it had a negative
effect that eventually largely,
00:15:38.63\00:15:44.81
well, destroyed his work
00:15:44.84\00:15:46.17
as far as the work
of God is concerned
00:15:46.21\00:15:49.34
and damaged his
work even, you know,
00:15:49.38\00:15:51.48
from the medical
00:15:51.51\00:15:52.85
and the professional perspective
00:15:52.88\00:15:54.22
as well.
00:15:54.25\00:15:55.58
That's interesting to note
that he started the sanitarium,
00:15:55.62\00:15:57.79
Battle Creek
Sanitarium, didn't he?
00:15:57.82\00:16:00.29
That's quite a large building
00:16:00.32\00:16:02.39
and took a lot of
money to build that
00:16:02.42\00:16:04.36
and a lot of effort.
00:16:04.39\00:16:05.73
It still stands today,
00:16:05.76\00:16:07.10
but it's not
used for that purpose.
00:16:07.13\00:16:08.76
The second
building still stands.
00:16:08.80\00:16:10.57
Yeah, that's correct.
00:16:10.60\00:16:11.93
Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:11.97\00:16:13.30
And we got to see
00:16:13.34\00:16:14.67
that it's quite an
outstanding building
00:16:14.70\00:16:16.04
in its own right.
00:16:16.07\00:16:17.41
Yes.
00:16:17.44\00:16:18.77
And that was
unfortunately against council.
00:16:18.81\00:16:22.74
There was, it was, it
would have been much better
00:16:22.78\00:16:25.88
had it been smaller.
00:16:25.91\00:16:29.28
Ellen White once wrote
that it would be desirable
00:16:29.32\00:16:32.25
to split that
institution into 10
00:16:32.29\00:16:34.36
and scatter them
around the countryside,
00:16:34.39\00:16:36.86
you know, the smaller
scattered about model.
00:16:36.89\00:16:41.06
We find that in the writings
of the messengers of the Lord
00:16:41.10\00:16:44.30
that the Spirit of Prophecy...
00:16:44.33\00:16:47.24
In almost everything,
you'll find this idea of,
00:16:47.27\00:16:50.67
it doesn't need to be huge.
00:16:50.71\00:16:52.04
It's actually a
greater influence
00:16:52.07\00:16:54.14
the more you can spread it out.
00:16:54.18\00:16:55.51
Yes, because a large institution
00:16:55.54\00:16:56.88
is very sterile
00:16:56.91\00:16:58.25
but a smaller institution
becomes very personal
00:16:58.28\00:17:00.52
and you can
interact with the people
00:17:00.55\00:17:03.59
and it's much more beneficial
in terms of healing too.
00:17:03.62\00:17:07.16
And not only that,
00:17:07.19\00:17:08.52
you can reach more places
00:17:08.56\00:17:10.26
if you've got a
number of school or places,
00:17:10.29\00:17:13.03
institutions
than one big hospital
00:17:13.06\00:17:14.83
in one location.
00:17:14.86\00:17:16.20
Yeah.
00:17:16.23\00:17:17.57
Ellen White was
very clear on that.
00:17:17.60\00:17:19.07
And this is a point
that Dr. Kellogg resisted,
00:17:19.10\00:17:22.10
because he felt
challenged in his leadership,
00:17:22.14\00:17:27.08
somewhat, and frankly,
00:17:27.11\00:17:28.68
it's much easier to
control one large institution
00:17:28.71\00:17:31.25
than it is to
control 10 little ones
00:17:31.28\00:17:33.28
scattered
around the countryside.
00:17:33.31\00:17:35.18
And so that's
part of the problem
00:17:35.22\00:17:37.75
that developed.
00:17:37.79\00:17:39.12
But let me just
touch again here.
00:17:39.15\00:17:41.19
This is somewhat of an anomaly
00:17:41.22\00:17:44.93
in the writing of
Ellen White in this regard.
00:17:44.96\00:17:48.90
During the 1890s,
00:17:48.93\00:17:53.27
a bit of a rift began to develop
00:17:53.30\00:17:55.97
between the
ministers of the church
00:17:56.00\00:17:58.54
and the medical
workers of the church,
00:17:58.57\00:18:00.41
and it was very unfortunate.
00:18:00.44\00:18:03.55
And as a result,
00:18:03.58\00:18:05.18
we find Ellen White trying
to pull them back together.
00:18:05.21\00:18:09.02
And so she would
write to the ministers
00:18:09.05\00:18:11.05
and she would say,
00:18:11.09\00:18:12.42
"Brethren, you need
to be more charitable
00:18:12.45\00:18:15.19
in your
assessment of Dr. Kellogg,
00:18:15.22\00:18:16.99
and you need to work with him,
00:18:17.03\00:18:18.36
you know, and she
would reprove them
00:18:18.39\00:18:20.50
and encourage, you know,
00:18:20.53\00:18:22.20
working with
the medical workers.
00:18:22.23\00:18:24.00
And then she wrote
to the medical workers
00:18:24.03\00:18:25.37
and Dr. Kellogg.
00:18:25.40\00:18:26.74
She would reprove
them and encourage working,
00:18:26.77\00:18:28.37
you know, and so
it was this kind of
00:18:28.40\00:18:31.34
a constant approach that way.
00:18:31.37\00:18:33.61
There is this one
very fascinating exception
00:18:33.64\00:18:36.44
from 1899,
00:18:36.48\00:18:38.68
where Ellen White was
writing directly to Dr. Kellogg.
00:18:38.71\00:18:41.68
She said something I
find very fascinating.
00:18:41.72\00:18:44.22
She says, "My dear brother,
00:18:44.25\00:18:46.96
as I have before written to you,
00:18:46.99\00:18:48.52
I know that the
Lord has placed you
00:18:48.56\00:18:50.39
in a very responsible position,
00:18:50.43\00:18:52.76
standing as you do,
00:18:52.79\00:18:55.83
as the greatest
physician in our world."
00:18:55.86\00:18:59.40
It's kind of a
fascinating thing to say.
00:18:59.43\00:19:01.17
The American Medical Association
00:19:01.20\00:19:03.30
maybe wouldn't put it that way
00:19:03.34\00:19:04.67
but they did say
that he was the most,
00:19:04.71\00:19:06.04
the single most
significant physician
00:19:06.07\00:19:09.48
over a period of 60 years.
00:19:09.51\00:19:10.85
I think it was 40 or 60
years. I may be wrong on that.
00:19:10.88\00:19:12.85
But we'll say 40
years to go on the low side.
00:19:12.88\00:19:16.52
He did more to shape
00:19:16.55\00:19:18.12
and to change the
practice of medicine in America
00:19:18.15\00:19:20.76
than any other man.
00:19:20.79\00:19:22.22
Well, then when she
said that at the time,
00:19:22.26\00:19:24.13
she could really
make that statement.
00:19:24.16\00:19:26.13
If they have also said
that there was no one else.
00:19:26.16\00:19:28.80
You know, he was
the most outstanding.
00:19:28.83\00:19:30.27
Well, they didn't say that
00:19:30.30\00:19:31.63
until the 1950s or 60s or
something like that but...
00:19:31.67\00:19:33.60
That's right.
00:19:33.64\00:19:34.97
But they've acknowledged
what she's written...
00:19:35.00\00:19:36.34
They've acknowledged that.
00:19:36.37\00:19:37.71
Yeah, once again, she was right.
00:19:37.74\00:19:39.34
Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:39.37\00:19:40.94
But here's where it
becomes to me most fascinating
00:19:40.98\00:19:47.15
is that again,
00:19:47.18\00:19:51.25
the writings of the
messengers of the Lord,
00:19:51.29\00:19:53.99
Ellen White, the
Spirit of Prophecy,
00:19:54.02\00:19:55.36
however, you want to turn that.
00:19:55.39\00:19:57.66
In 1892, November 22,
00:19:57.69\00:20:00.96
1892 in the Review and
Herald, the publication,
00:20:01.00\00:20:04.70
Ellen White wrote an
interesting statement.
00:20:04.73\00:20:06.13
She said, "The time of
test is just before us,
00:20:06.17\00:20:08.60
for the loud cry
of the third angel
00:20:08.64\00:20:11.37
has already
begun in the revelation
00:20:11.41\00:20:13.68
as the righteousness of Christ.
00:20:13.71\00:20:16.31
And we have four...
00:20:16.34\00:20:20.72
Most of our time,
00:20:20.75\00:20:22.12
most of the time and
thought that has gone into that,
00:20:22.15\00:20:24.89
we have looked at it
as a matter of theology
00:20:24.92\00:20:29.16
and
coincidentally, providentially,
00:20:29.19\00:20:34.56
however you want to say it.
00:20:34.60\00:20:37.83
About nine years ago now,
00:20:37.87\00:20:42.80
some rare
documents fell into my hands
00:20:42.84\00:20:46.41
and it was quite fascinating.
00:20:46.44\00:20:48.44
There was a general
meeting of the church,
00:20:48.48\00:20:50.91
a General Conference in 1893,
00:20:50.95\00:20:53.98
just two and a half
months after the statement
00:20:54.02\00:20:56.25
that the loud cry had begun.
00:20:56.28\00:20:57.62
There was this, and
it was, you can imagine
00:20:57.65\00:21:00.46
and, of course, a
loud cry is an event
00:21:00.49\00:21:03.09
that we understand
to happen just shortly
00:21:03.12\00:21:06.26
before the Second Coming.
00:21:06.29\00:21:07.63
Okay, so obviously this would,
00:21:07.66\00:21:09.00
you know, kind of be
a bit of a buzz, right?
00:21:09.03\00:21:10.83
Okay?
00:21:10.87\00:21:12.40
In fact, A.T. Jones,
prominent Adventist ministry,
00:21:12.43\00:21:17.14
he gave a series of 24 sermons
00:21:17.17\00:21:19.67
through that whole
General Conference.
00:21:19.71\00:21:21.11
They've been
reprinted at least three times,
00:21:21.14\00:21:22.58
an excellent,
excellent material.
00:21:22.61\00:21:23.98
I encourage
people to read those.
00:21:24.01\00:21:26.72
What was lost sight of
00:21:26.75\00:21:28.92
is that Dr. Kellogg gave
a series of talks as well.
00:21:28.95\00:21:32.95
And they were not included
00:21:32.99\00:21:34.49
in the General
Conference bulletin,
00:21:34.52\00:21:36.59
which is unusual.
00:21:36.62\00:21:38.96
Normally, everything goes
00:21:38.99\00:21:40.33
into the General
Conference bulletin.
00:21:40.36\00:21:41.70
But everything to do
with Kellogg, his talks,
00:21:41.73\00:21:46.27
and the development
of organizational actions
00:21:46.30\00:21:52.04
and establishment of a
new medical organization,
00:21:52.07\00:21:55.74
those things were not
included in the bulletin.
00:21:55.78\00:22:00.35
It's a little bit fishy.
00:22:00.38\00:22:01.78
I suspect that
rather there was...
00:22:01.82\00:22:03.89
There was kind of
an editorial decision.
00:22:03.92\00:22:06.15
We just don't really want
to give this guy any publicity
00:22:06.19\00:22:08.42
because he had
stepped on some toes.
00:22:08.46\00:22:09.79
As I said,
00:22:09.82\00:22:11.16
there was a bit of a
difference of opinion
00:22:11.19\00:22:12.53
between the ministers
and the medical workers
00:22:12.56\00:22:13.90
sometimes and so.
00:22:13.93\00:22:15.26
So he was dropped out
of that official record.
00:22:15.30\00:22:19.07
And this is what
a portion of those
00:22:19.10\00:22:21.27
that's what fell
into my hands in 2009.
00:22:21.30\00:22:25.67
And let me read one
part of one short sermon
00:22:25.71\00:22:31.68
of what he said
and when I read this,
00:22:31.71\00:22:35.08
to me, it was,
it was mind-blowing,
00:22:35.12\00:22:39.49
yeah, because it
is made so much sense
00:22:39.52\00:22:41.79
out of so many things
00:22:41.82\00:22:43.16
that I had not been able
to piece together before.
00:22:43.19\00:22:45.23
He said this, now bear in mind,
00:22:45.26\00:22:46.59
Ellen White said the
loud cry is just begun.
00:22:46.63\00:22:49.46
And Kellogg
addressing the leaders
00:22:49.50\00:22:53.30
and members of the denomination,
00:22:53.34\00:22:54.70
he said,
00:22:54.74\00:22:56.64
"If the loud cry has
been begun by our people,
00:22:56.67\00:23:00.71
it must be
00:23:00.74\00:23:02.08
because we have
just begun to do a little
00:23:02.11\00:23:04.58
in the way of
letting our light shine.
00:23:04.61\00:23:08.15
But we have done
so little in that way
00:23:08.18\00:23:10.29
that it seems to me
that before the loud cry
00:23:10.32\00:23:12.25
will make any
great noise in the world,
00:23:12.29\00:23:14.46
we will have to let our light
shine a great deal brighter."
00:23:14.49\00:23:18.86
You don't know what
this is talking about yet.
00:23:18.89\00:23:22.26
"We've to let our light
shine a great deal brighter
00:23:22.30\00:23:24.10
than we have ever yet done
00:23:24.13\00:23:25.93
because the works come first.
00:23:25.97\00:23:31.21
The light must shine
through these good works
00:23:31.24\00:23:33.61
before we can be called
the repairers of the breach
00:23:33.64\00:23:37.81
and the restorers
of paths to dwell in,
00:23:37.85\00:23:39.58
for the promise comes
00:23:39.61\00:23:40.95
after all of these
conditions you see."
00:23:40.98\00:23:44.29
Now, you might be able to
piece together a little bit,
00:23:44.32\00:23:46.25
but I'm sure
many of our listeners
00:23:46.29\00:23:48.59
would not quite
understand the content.
00:23:48.62\00:23:51.36
Bear in mind this came
in the middle of a sermon.
00:23:51.39\00:23:52.93
Okay.
00:23:52.96\00:23:54.30
The letting your light shine
00:23:54.33\00:23:56.46
is a promise from
Isaiah Chapter 58.
00:23:56.50\00:23:59.33
And at the end of the
chapter is this passage
00:23:59.37\00:24:02.00
about being the
repairers of the breach,
00:24:02.04\00:24:04.07
the restorers of
paths to dwell in.
00:24:04.11\00:24:07.38
And what Kellogg
is saying is that
00:24:07.41\00:24:09.28
these promises
are a representation
00:24:09.31\00:24:12.11
of the loud cry.
00:24:12.15\00:24:14.68
And that they come
after all the conditions.
00:24:14.72\00:24:18.25
Well, what are the conditions?
00:24:18.29\00:24:20.19
Isaiah 58, "If you deal
your bread to the hungry,
00:24:20.22\00:24:24.29
if you bring the poor who
are cast out to your home,
00:24:24.33\00:24:26.90
if you clothed the naked,
00:24:26.93\00:24:28.26
if you hide not
yourself from your own flesh,
00:24:28.30\00:24:31.27
if you extend your
soul to the needy soul,
00:24:31.30\00:24:35.04
and you minister to others."
00:24:35.07\00:24:36.81
This is the great chapter
00:24:36.84\00:24:38.97
which portrays
00:24:39.01\00:24:40.34
not only the
work that Christ did,
00:24:40.38\00:24:42.54
but the work that He
calls His people too.
00:24:42.58\00:24:45.68
And Kellogg said,
00:24:45.71\00:24:47.68
"This loud cry
has just barely begun
00:24:47.72\00:24:51.22
because we have in fact
00:24:51.25\00:24:52.59
just barely begun
00:24:52.62\00:24:55.29
our medical missionary
outreach to the world, "
00:24:55.32\00:24:57.56
and that was true historically.
00:24:57.59\00:24:59.36
In the year just before that
00:24:59.39\00:25:00.73
they'd started the
orphanage in Battle Creek,
00:25:00.76\00:25:02.90
they'd started a
visiting nurses program,
00:25:02.93\00:25:05.53
they had started the
Christian health bands,
00:25:05.57\00:25:07.67
which was just the
organizing of God's people
00:25:07.70\00:25:11.07
into small little
groups to try and help.
00:25:11.11\00:25:13.98
You know, they'd be
given a certain block of town,
00:25:14.01\00:25:15.91
you know, from this
street to this street,
00:25:15.94\00:25:17.28
this avenue to this avenue.
00:25:17.31\00:25:19.01
And your little
group of nine people,
00:25:19.05\00:25:20.38
your job is to find
anyone who needs help
00:25:20.42\00:25:22.65
and see if we can help them.
00:25:22.68\00:25:24.32
So he had a clear understanding
00:25:24.35\00:25:25.69
of what Jesus was teaching.
00:25:25.72\00:25:27.06
He did.
00:25:27.09\00:25:28.42
He had this clear recognition
of the practical work
00:25:28.46\00:25:33.70
to go along with the theoretical
00:25:33.73\00:25:35.53
and some might doubt,
00:25:35.56\00:25:39.53
you know, I'm sure
00:25:39.57\00:25:40.90
many listeners may not have seen
00:25:40.94\00:25:42.27
our previous presentation.
00:25:42.30\00:25:44.27
But there was a
great thought in there
00:25:44.31\00:25:46.34
is that Christ
could not verbally portray
00:25:46.37\00:25:49.41
the Father,
00:25:49.44\00:25:50.78
but through His actions He can.
00:25:50.81\00:25:52.25
And Kellogg understood that.
00:25:52.28\00:25:54.42
And so, he did great good.
00:25:54.45\00:26:00.19
And then unfortunately,
he went off the cliff.
00:26:00.22\00:26:05.09
So you quoted earlier on,
00:26:05.13\00:26:06.46
Ellen White said
there was a change.
00:26:06.49\00:26:08.86
So we're talking about a change
from knowing what Jesus taught,
00:26:08.90\00:26:13.80
but then something happened.
00:26:13.84\00:26:15.24
What happened? Yeah.
00:26:15.27\00:26:16.94
And here's where it gets tricky
00:26:16.97\00:26:19.61
because when we're
talking about counterfeits.
00:26:19.64\00:26:22.21
How do you change
00:26:22.24\00:26:23.58
the very heart
and soul of something
00:26:23.61\00:26:24.95
but make it look
the same, you know?
00:26:24.98\00:26:27.75
And that's really what
happened is that this good work,
00:26:27.78\00:26:31.39
this humanitarian
work, this benevolent,
00:26:31.42\00:26:35.92
kind work was kidnapped,
00:26:35.96\00:26:42.16
shall we say,
00:26:42.20\00:26:43.67
to serve purposes
that were not beneficial
00:26:43.70\00:26:47.74
to God's work on earth.
00:26:47.77\00:26:49.80
Kellogg began one thing.
00:26:49.84\00:26:52.34
He was a fantastic fundraiser.
00:26:52.37\00:26:56.11
He was a great speaker.
00:26:56.14\00:26:57.81
He was very engaging
and very entertaining
00:26:57.85\00:27:00.15
and if you weren't careful,
00:27:00.18\00:27:02.92
he could fleece
you of your money.
00:27:02.95\00:27:04.89
I'm not saying dishonestly.
00:27:04.92\00:27:07.76
But he could
persuade you with happy heart
00:27:07.79\00:27:11.46
to hand over your funds.
00:27:11.49\00:27:14.13
And the problem was
that he was using, I mean,
00:27:14.16\00:27:16.97
the
denomination was fairly small
00:27:17.00\00:27:18.50
in those days.
00:27:18.53\00:27:19.90
There was a, you know, we would,
00:27:19.93\00:27:21.57
other than miraculous
00:27:21.60\00:27:22.94
there was a fairly
finite pool of funding.
00:27:22.97\00:27:26.04
And rather than
having that distributed
00:27:26.07\00:27:29.34
wisely and carefully and broadly
00:27:29.38\00:27:31.58
through the all the needs...
00:27:31.61\00:27:34.38
He got it for himself.
He got it for, not himself.
00:27:34.42\00:27:36.79
I understand though.
00:27:36.82\00:27:38.15
As an
individual, he was selfless,
00:27:38.19\00:27:39.85
but in terms of his
department, his medical work,
00:27:39.89\00:27:46.63
everything went to there
that he get his hands on...
00:27:46.66\00:27:48.93
And the rest suffered
because of that, really.
00:27:48.96\00:27:50.77
Australia in particular.
00:27:50.80\00:27:52.63
Ellen White was here in
Australia during that time,
00:27:52.67\00:27:55.57
and they labored for
years with insufficient funding,
00:27:55.60\00:27:58.51
largely because of the doctor.
00:27:58.54\00:28:00.74
And so there were
definite problems there.
00:28:00.78\00:28:04.81
And then eventually it,
00:28:04.85\00:28:07.82
it went a notch
further and this is...
00:28:07.85\00:28:10.65
You mentioned my two books.
00:28:10.69\00:28:12.02
And I'll just say simply
00:28:12.05\00:28:13.39
that D'Sozo is kind of the story
00:28:13.42\00:28:15.52
of the good Kellogg
00:28:15.56\00:28:16.89
and what the Lord tried
to accomplish through him.
00:28:16.93\00:28:19.03
Tremble is a story
of the bad Kellogg.
00:28:19.06\00:28:21.80
It's not as happy a story.
00:28:21.83\00:28:24.73
And just as a
note to for viewers
00:28:24.77\00:28:26.84
that D'Sozo is out of print?
00:28:26.87\00:28:29.70
It is out of print.
00:28:29.74\00:28:31.07
Yes, you can get
the Kindle edition.
00:28:31.11\00:28:33.21
And I found a few
online news bookstores.
00:28:33.24\00:28:37.21
And the local ABC store near us
00:28:37.25\00:28:40.98
the Adventist Book Center
or call better books and food.
00:28:41.02\00:28:44.59
They do have some copies.
00:28:44.62\00:28:46.92
But if people want to get them,
00:28:46.96\00:28:48.82
you better get them
before while they are gone.
00:28:48.86\00:28:50.43
Yes, I was pleasantly surprised
00:28:50.46\00:28:52.83
that apparently
there is a bit of a stock
00:28:52.86\00:28:54.36
left in
Australia and that's good
00:28:54.40\00:28:55.86
because you can't get them
00:28:55.90\00:28:57.23
in the United States
or Canada any longer.
00:28:57.27\00:28:59.63
We may do a reprinting.
00:28:59.67\00:29:01.17
I have another book coming out.
00:29:01.20\00:29:02.90
And I warned the
printer, I said this,
00:29:02.94\00:29:04.74
this other book
covers some similar territory
00:29:04.77\00:29:07.18
and I have a lot
of footnotes to say
00:29:07.21\00:29:08.54
if you need more on this story,
00:29:08.58\00:29:09.91
you need to
consult my previous books,
00:29:09.94\00:29:11.28
so they may have to reprint it.
00:29:11.31\00:29:14.12
But eventually,
00:29:14.15\00:29:17.92
Dr. Kellogg got
himself into trouble.
00:29:17.95\00:29:23.43
Let's just put it that way,
he got himself into trouble.
00:29:23.46\00:29:25.86
And in a variety of
ways, partly his stubbornness,
00:29:25.89\00:29:28.93
partly his organizational pride,
00:29:28.96\00:29:32.07
not personal pride so much
but his organizational pride
00:29:32.10\00:29:35.44
and organizational selfishness,
00:29:35.47\00:29:37.31
and he became very
suspicious of others
00:29:37.34\00:29:43.95
who might need some
money for some other,
00:29:43.98\00:29:45.98
you know, there
were missionaries
00:29:46.01\00:29:47.35
that were dying
for want of wages,
00:29:47.38\00:29:50.02
that type of thing, you know,
00:29:50.05\00:29:51.39
and he became
very, very suspicious
00:29:51.42\00:29:52.99
and very controlling
00:29:53.02\00:29:54.36
and these kind
of things develop.
00:29:54.39\00:29:56.32
Eventually,
00:29:56.36\00:29:58.49
there were a
couple of different things
00:29:58.53\00:29:59.86
that really kind
of tipped the scale.
00:29:59.89\00:30:02.33
One of those was the
publication of a book.
00:30:02.36\00:30:05.27
The title was, Living
Temple, "The Living Temple."
00:30:05.30\00:30:10.74
And I have a passage here
00:30:10.77\00:30:14.24
just a short comment
00:30:14.28\00:30:15.61
that Ellen White
makes on this book.
00:30:15.64\00:30:17.18
I think we can put this
up on the screen probably.
00:30:17.21\00:30:20.58
"In the book Living Temple,
00:30:20.62\00:30:22.88
there is presented the
alpha of deadly heresies.
00:30:22.92\00:30:28.29
The omega will follow,
00:30:28.32\00:30:31.43
and will be received
00:30:31.46\00:30:32.79
by those who are
not willing to heed
00:30:32.83\00:30:35.30
the warning God has given."
00:30:35.33\00:30:39.60
That sounds kind
of ominous. It does.
00:30:39.63\00:30:41.60
It does sound, yes, right,
the alpha of deadly heresies.
00:30:41.64\00:30:46.04
Well, so naturally
the question comes up
00:30:46.07\00:30:48.34
what was in the book?
00:30:48.38\00:30:50.71
And I would point out
00:30:50.75\00:30:53.52
that perhaps the first
question that should be asked
00:30:53.55\00:30:57.65
is what was the
warning God has given?
00:30:57.69\00:31:01.32
If you remember
the statement there,
00:31:01.36\00:31:02.69
it said that
this omega will come
00:31:02.72\00:31:04.83
and will be received by those
00:31:04.86\00:31:06.19
who will not receive
the warning God has given.
00:31:06.23\00:31:09.16
So the first question to
ask is what is the warning?
00:31:09.20\00:31:14.10
The warning is
don't read the book.
00:31:14.14\00:31:18.54
The warning is
don't read the book.
00:31:18.57\00:31:20.64
And...
00:31:20.68\00:31:24.41
I've not read the book.
00:31:24.45\00:31:26.72
I'll just be honest,
I haven't read the book.
00:31:26.75\00:31:28.55
I've got a PDF
version of it on my computer,
00:31:28.58\00:31:31.79
but I got it just so I can
get a picture of the cover.
00:31:31.82\00:31:34.49
I've never read the book. I
don't tend to read the book.
00:31:34.52\00:31:37.59
But I can tell you
that you know, over time,
00:31:37.63\00:31:40.76
obviously different
ones did back in the day
00:31:40.80\00:31:43.23
and have and whatnot.
00:31:43.26\00:31:44.63
And there are
about five paragraphs
00:31:44.67\00:31:48.67
that have been
pulled from the book
00:31:48.70\00:31:50.04
to exemplify the
theological problems, okay.
00:31:50.07\00:31:54.44
And essentially,
00:31:54.48\00:31:55.81
the difficulty with the
book on a theological basis
00:31:55.84\00:31:59.98
is that it introduces
principles and concepts
00:32:00.02\00:32:04.69
of what we termed pantheism
00:32:04.72\00:32:07.56
which is, is really,
essentially a Hindu concept
00:32:07.59\00:32:12.79
that God is
everything, everything is God.
00:32:12.83\00:32:18.97
God in the
universe are synonymous.
00:32:19.00\00:32:22.20
And all that is in the
universe is part of God.
00:32:22.24\00:32:24.87
Therefore you're part
of God and I'm part of God.
00:32:24.91\00:32:27.81
And God is in everything.
God is in everything.
00:32:27.84\00:32:30.28
Yes, that's the pan
which means all across theism,
00:32:30.31\00:32:34.35
which is referenced
00:32:34.38\00:32:35.72
to the God theology
type of thing now, okay.
00:32:35.75\00:32:40.19
And so pantheism is...
00:32:40.22\00:32:45.33
It's contrary to the Bible.
00:32:45.36\00:32:47.03
That's simple, simply put.
00:32:47.06\00:32:50.00
Kellogg's presentation of
it is actually quite mild.
00:32:50.03\00:32:53.44
You can find far worse
in any public library today
00:32:53.47\00:32:57.44
if you wanted to go
looking which I choose not to.
00:32:57.47\00:32:59.74
I don't want to read
those books either, actually,
00:32:59.77\00:33:01.61
but I know, you
know, enough about it.
00:33:01.64\00:33:03.24
I'm not totally
ignorant on it by any ways.
00:33:03.28\00:33:05.91
The trouble is, if you
start reading things like this,
00:33:05.95\00:33:10.65
how are you going to know
00:33:10.69\00:33:13.56
that you are going to
not be impacted by it?
00:33:13.59\00:33:16.89
That's right. Yes.
00:33:16.93\00:33:18.26
And part of the warning...
That's one of the dangers.
00:33:18.29\00:33:19.63
Know its error. Yes.
00:33:19.66\00:33:21.96
Don't read it.
00:33:22.00\00:33:23.33
Don't read the book.
00:33:23.37\00:33:24.70
Because if it is,
if it is the error
00:33:24.73\00:33:26.60
we know about pantheism
00:33:26.63\00:33:29.30
or contains
pantheistic ideologies,
00:33:29.34\00:33:33.74
you are opening
yourself to be deceived,
00:33:33.78\00:33:36.95
because a brain can do
things you don't expect it to.
00:33:36.98\00:33:40.52
And you will find many
testimonies of individuals
00:33:40.55\00:33:46.49
who have made remarkable
00:33:46.52\00:33:49.79
I would say not
remarkable in a good way,
00:33:49.82\00:33:51.63
but remarkable in a bad way
00:33:51.66\00:33:53.29
transformations of
their belief systems
00:33:53.33\00:33:55.60
from being Christians,
Methodists, Baptists, whatever,
00:33:55.63\00:33:59.93
and suddenly becoming
in many cases Luciferian.
00:33:59.97\00:34:06.44
And this comes about
through a process of mysticism.
00:34:06.47\00:34:12.51
Now let me just
address that for a moment
00:34:12.55\00:34:14.75
because I'm
putting another slide
00:34:14.78\00:34:17.49
up on the screen here I think.
00:34:17.52\00:34:20.12
"We need not the
mysticism that is in this book,
00:34:20.16\00:34:24.99
Living Temple.
00:34:25.03\00:34:26.59
Those who
entertain these sophistries
00:34:26.63\00:34:29.10
will soon find
themselves in a position
00:34:29.13\00:34:31.23
where the enemy
can talk with them,
00:34:31.27\00:34:34.14
and lead them away from God."
00:34:34.17\00:34:35.90
That's right.
00:34:35.94\00:34:37.51
You know, that's the...
00:34:37.54\00:34:39.64
You know, what
is this all about?
00:34:39.67\00:34:41.01
Okay?
00:34:41.04\00:34:42.38
What is mysticism?
00:34:42.41\00:34:45.01
Well, I'll give you, you can go
00:34:45.05\00:34:47.48
with dictionary
definitions and things,
00:34:47.52\00:34:49.08
but let me just give a
quick description of it.
00:34:49.12\00:34:52.12
Mysticism comes
in many, many forums,
00:34:52.15\00:34:55.92
it's spread across
all religious beliefs.
00:34:55.96\00:34:58.83
You'll find
mysticism in the Catholics,
00:34:58.86\00:35:00.63
and the Hindus, and the Hebrews,
00:35:00.66\00:35:03.60
the Jews have mysticism.
00:35:03.63\00:35:06.50
Confucianism,
00:35:06.53\00:35:07.87
there's a
mystical element in Islam,
00:35:07.90\00:35:10.64
it's known as the Sufi sect.
00:35:10.67\00:35:13.34
It's everywhere
in Protestantism,
00:35:13.38\00:35:17.21
it would
probably, we would equate it
00:35:17.25\00:35:19.08
with the Pentecostal movement.
00:35:19.11\00:35:22.42
It's everywhere.
00:35:22.45\00:35:24.05
But the one common denominator
that marks it as mystical just,
00:35:24.09\00:35:28.99
that's the name we put on it
00:35:29.02\00:35:31.43
is the belief that I can learn
00:35:31.46\00:35:35.46
a set of methods,
00:35:35.50\00:35:39.63
often called exercises.
00:35:39.67\00:35:41.87
I can learn a procedure
00:35:41.90\00:35:44.81
through which I can establish
direct contact with my deity,
00:35:44.84\00:35:50.68
no matter which
religious system I'm in.
00:35:50.71\00:35:54.48
This ends up
becoming a very cross,
00:35:54.52\00:35:58.95
a very ecumenical influence
00:35:58.99\00:36:03.26
because mystics
00:36:03.29\00:36:04.76
in all these
different religions,
00:36:04.79\00:36:07.03
they all, when you
have this experience,
00:36:07.06\00:36:11.13
one of the most
commonly reported
00:36:11.17\00:36:14.80
initial mind expanding things
00:36:14.84\00:36:19.14
is this sudden realization
00:36:19.17\00:36:21.44
that you are one
with the universe,
00:36:21.48\00:36:24.05
i.e., pantheism.
00:36:24.08\00:36:26.75
And it doesn't matter
00:36:26.78\00:36:28.18
if I'm a Catholic
and you're a Hindu,
00:36:28.22\00:36:31.85
we have the same experience
and they feel drawn together
00:36:31.89\00:36:34.79
and this is something
that we see playing out
00:36:34.82\00:36:37.93
in our world today.
00:36:37.96\00:36:39.29
It's a very united
influence, isn't it?
00:36:39.33\00:36:40.96
It is very uniting influence.
00:36:41.00\00:36:43.40
It's a very deceptive influence.
00:36:43.43\00:36:45.10
But when we start
playing with things like that,
00:36:45.13\00:36:49.40
and you know, and
in that quote there
00:36:49.44\00:36:51.34
that you said before,
00:36:51.37\00:36:53.17
you would hear that a
Satan speaking to you.
00:36:53.21\00:36:56.11
Yes, yes.
00:36:56.14\00:36:57.48
You're opening the
door for him to address you
00:36:57.51\00:37:01.12
however you want.
00:37:01.15\00:37:02.82
People who have
been in these, you know,
00:37:02.85\00:37:04.75
where they feel
one with everything,
00:37:04.79\00:37:07.59
you know, like someone we
know has actually experienced
00:37:07.62\00:37:12.19
that sort of things.
00:37:12.23\00:37:14.03
And has said that you do hear,
00:37:14.06\00:37:17.43
you actually hear a
voice speaking to you
00:37:17.47\00:37:21.20
and telling you things to do.
00:37:21.24\00:37:22.97
Yep.
00:37:23.00\00:37:24.34
There are too many
individual accounts,
00:37:24.37\00:37:29.81
both from those who have
been in the mystical movement
00:37:29.84\00:37:32.35
and then have come back out.
00:37:32.38\00:37:35.15
But also you can
find plenty, I mean,
00:37:35.18\00:37:37.25
I'm always a little bit cautious
00:37:37.29\00:37:38.72
about someone who's
renounced something,
00:37:38.75\00:37:40.39
they may have
an axe to grind it,
00:37:40.42\00:37:41.76
they may
misrepresent it, you know.
00:37:41.79\00:37:43.56
And so, if I want
to find out about this,
00:37:43.59\00:37:45.39
that or the other thing,
00:37:45.43\00:37:47.03
I place a certain
premium on reading that
00:37:47.06\00:37:51.23
from those who
are perfectly happy
00:37:51.27\00:37:52.60
where they're at,
00:37:52.63\00:37:53.97
and you'll find
the same thing there.
00:37:54.00\00:37:55.47
You'll find the
same thing there.
00:37:55.50\00:37:57.01
One of the
things that intrigued me
00:37:57.04\00:37:59.34
for quite a number of years
00:37:59.37\00:38:01.41
and I didn't really
understand and didn't know
00:38:01.44\00:38:03.45
why it would be important.
00:38:03.48\00:38:05.41
Very early on in
Ellen White's ministry,
00:38:05.45\00:38:08.35
so in 1845-46, maybe up to 47.
00:38:08.38\00:38:13.05
She was repeatedly and
on a number of occasions,
00:38:13.09\00:38:17.39
maybe five, six times, she
was accused of having said,
00:38:17.43\00:38:23.73
"I can have a
vision whenever I want."
00:38:23.77\00:38:28.37
And, you know, to me, I
looked at that and said,
00:38:28.40\00:38:33.41
well, that sound
crazy thing to say
00:38:33.44\00:38:35.08
but you know, what
difference does that make?
00:38:35.11\00:38:38.05
But I noted that her response,
when she responds to this.
00:38:38.08\00:38:43.25
It's vehement.
00:38:43.28\00:38:45.35
She is very...
00:38:45.39\00:38:47.02
That is, I have never said that.
00:38:47.06\00:38:49.29
That's absolutely impossible.
00:38:49.32\00:38:51.09
No one could do that.
00:38:51.13\00:38:52.89
And then she goes
right on and she says,
00:38:52.93\00:38:54.96
"If I could have my own way,
00:38:55.00\00:38:58.00
if I could please
myself and please God as well,
00:38:58.03\00:39:03.17
I would rather die
than have another vision
00:39:03.20\00:39:06.14
because every vision
places me under responsibility
00:39:06.17\00:39:08.91
to bear the message
00:39:08.94\00:39:10.48
to those who often
don't want to receive it.
00:39:10.51\00:39:12.31
She said, "This has
always been painful to me."
00:39:12.35\00:39:14.75
She does not, I
mean, here we are,
00:39:14.78\00:39:17.49
she'd rather die
than have a vision.
00:39:17.52\00:39:19.79
And these, all
these other people
00:39:19.82\00:39:21.16
who are teaching their
mindfulness techniques,
00:39:21.19\00:39:23.53
their yoga techniques,
00:39:23.56\00:39:24.89
their centering
prayer techniques,
00:39:24.93\00:39:26.90
all these different,
Lectio Divina, all these names.
00:39:26.93\00:39:31.33
I don't know if you
recognize any of these.
00:39:31.37\00:39:33.34
Yeah, I see some nods.
00:39:33.37\00:39:34.70
Okay.
00:39:34.74\00:39:36.07
All of those have
that one common element
00:39:36.10\00:39:39.27
is that they offer you
00:39:39.31\00:39:41.84
the privilege of
at your convenience,
00:39:41.88\00:39:46.82
driving your way
00:39:46.85\00:39:48.18
into the
chamber of the Most High
00:39:48.22\00:39:50.29
so to speak, and she
wasn't anxious for it.
00:39:50.32\00:39:55.19
And this is the
whole attracting point
00:39:55.22\00:39:57.36
for these other guys
00:39:57.39\00:39:58.73
and I enforced the
conclusion we're talking about
00:39:58.76\00:40:01.00
two totally different phenomena.
00:40:01.03\00:40:03.20
Two different experiences.
00:40:03.23\00:40:04.57
Two totally
different experiences.
00:40:04.60\00:40:07.20
Yeah.
00:40:07.24\00:40:08.57
And so it, it went on,
00:40:08.60\00:40:13.68
Dr. Kellogg and his work.
00:40:13.71\00:40:18.08
There are some
fascinating lessons
00:40:18.11\00:40:20.35
to be learned.
00:40:20.38\00:40:23.39
How old was he when he died?
00:40:23.42\00:40:25.12
I think he was 94
if I remember right.
00:40:25.15\00:40:27.46
He lived a very long life.
00:40:27.49\00:40:28.82
He did live a long
life. Very busy workaholic.
00:40:28.86\00:40:30.69
He did, he did that, he was...
00:40:30.73\00:40:34.20
You know, he was, he
lived very healthful life
00:40:34.23\00:40:37.03
in terms of his physical habits,
00:40:37.07\00:40:41.14
lived a long time.
00:40:41.17\00:40:42.50
He was still
performing operations
00:40:42.54\00:40:44.74
up into his 90s.
00:40:44.77\00:40:47.24
And he, you know,
00:40:47.28\00:40:48.71
up until the whole
at least into the 1970s.
00:40:48.74\00:40:52.05
I mean, he died in the
40s and up into the 1970s,
00:40:52.08\00:40:54.95
I know there were still people
who would in the Michigan area
00:40:54.98\00:40:59.92
especially they
would present themselves
00:40:59.95\00:41:01.36
for their annual
physical with a new doctor,
00:41:01.39\00:41:03.76
you know, the old doctor
died or something like that
00:41:03.79\00:41:05.23
and then they
come to a new doctor.
00:41:05.26\00:41:08.03
And the doctor would look
and you'd see a suture line,
00:41:08.06\00:41:09.83
and he says Dr.
Kellogg, I can tell.
00:41:09.86\00:41:12.97
He was good.
00:41:13.00\00:41:14.77
He was good.
00:41:14.80\00:41:16.14
So here we have just
to recap a little bit.
00:41:16.17\00:41:18.04
Here we had a man that
was called for the work.
00:41:18.07\00:41:23.41
He had a change in his life.
00:41:23.45\00:41:25.75
And like you said,
00:41:25.78\00:41:27.12
he was quite
renowned for his surgery.
00:41:27.15\00:41:29.38
He did a lot of good
and that can go for anyone,
00:41:29.42\00:41:33.32
that could be an
illustration of anyone living
00:41:33.36\00:41:36.09
that died or anytime.
00:41:36.12\00:41:38.46
But there's something
that came out I believe
00:41:38.49\00:41:41.46
and you want to
share this with us.
00:41:41.50\00:41:42.83
What is it that
can change in us,
00:41:42.86\00:41:46.23
that can bring about the change
that Dr. Kellogg went through?
00:41:46.27\00:41:50.17
The good change?
00:41:50.21\00:41:51.54
Well...
00:41:51.57\00:41:52.91
The bad change? The bad change.
00:41:52.94\00:41:54.28
I want to make sure
I'm on the right page.
00:41:54.31\00:41:55.64
Yeah, the bad change.
00:41:55.68\00:41:57.01
Well, you can tell, you
know, there can be a good change
00:41:57.05\00:41:58.88
going the other way
too but in this case,
00:41:58.91\00:42:01.35
there was a bad change.
00:42:01.38\00:42:03.28
The bad change for Kellogg.
00:42:03.32\00:42:08.09
And there's a
sobering lesson here.
00:42:08.12\00:42:10.99
Well, we want to learn from it
00:42:11.03\00:42:12.36
because we don't want
to make the same mistakes.
00:42:12.39\00:42:13.73
No, no.
00:42:13.76\00:42:15.30
And, you know, I
invested most of the year
00:42:15.33\00:42:19.27
actually trying to make sure
00:42:19.30\00:42:21.37
I understood Dr.
Kellogg's decline,
00:42:21.40\00:42:24.64
just because there
was a little conflicting,
00:42:24.67\00:42:27.01
you know, evidence
in different things,
00:42:27.04\00:42:28.98
you know, and I
said, "No, no, no, no,
00:42:29.01\00:42:30.35
I don't understand
this well enough yet."
00:42:30.38\00:42:32.15
And so I read everything
that Ellen White wrote
00:42:32.18\00:42:35.98
to or about him
over a 15-year period.
00:42:36.02\00:42:38.79
I wrote, I read
all of his papers.
00:42:38.82\00:42:41.46
Did he have a lot of
direction from Ellen White?
00:42:41.49\00:42:43.66
A great deal. Yes.
00:42:43.69\00:42:45.79
Some of which he followed.
00:42:45.83\00:42:47.80
Well, she sort of treated him
almost like a son, didn't she?
00:42:47.83\00:42:50.80
She did, yes.
00:42:50.83\00:42:52.17
Didn't she and her
husband help pay for him
00:42:52.20\00:42:55.04
to go through medical school?
00:42:55.07\00:42:56.40
They did. Yes. Yes, they did.
00:42:56.44\00:42:57.77
Actually her son,
Ellen White's son,
00:42:57.81\00:43:01.18
Willie White writing,
00:43:01.21\00:43:04.38
I think he might
have been writing
00:43:04.41\00:43:05.75
to Dr. Kellogg actually,
because they were, you know,
00:43:05.78\00:43:08.78
young men, they grew
up together and whatnot.
00:43:08.82\00:43:10.69
And they had been very friendly
until then later in life
00:43:10.72\00:43:14.26
when there's these tensions.
00:43:14.29\00:43:16.59
But Willie White wrote to
Dr. Kellogg, I think it was,
00:43:16.62\00:43:19.46
it might have been someone else.
00:43:19.49\00:43:20.96
But he said,
00:43:21.00\00:43:24.17
"I have no question in my mind
00:43:24.20\00:43:25.97
that the mother
would work harder
00:43:26.00\00:43:29.07
to save Dr. Kellogg
00:43:29.10\00:43:31.14
than she would for
either of her two sons,
00:43:31.17\00:43:35.58
because she knows
how important he is
00:43:35.61\00:43:37.98
to Lord's work."
00:43:38.01\00:43:40.12
And he said that
with no malice whatsoever.
00:43:40.15\00:43:44.25
But yes, what was the change?
00:43:44.29\00:43:45.92
Well, the change in
one sense came gradually
00:43:45.95\00:43:48.62
because there was a
weakness that he held on to
00:43:48.66\00:43:53.70
and he resisted ever correcting.
00:43:53.73\00:43:58.07
And that weakness
was simply his desire
00:43:58.10\00:44:00.47
for what I would
call grandiosity.
00:44:00.50\00:44:03.41
He loved to make a big show.
00:44:03.44\00:44:05.51
He wanted to be in charge
00:44:05.54\00:44:07.71
and he wanted it
to be impressive.
00:44:07.74\00:44:09.64
And so hence the building
00:44:09.68\00:44:11.01
that you
mentioned in Battle Creek
00:44:11.05\00:44:12.38
is large and impressive.
00:44:12.41\00:44:14.32
Unfortunately, it
was grandiose in a way
00:44:14.35\00:44:16.95
that was counterproductive.
00:44:16.99\00:44:19.35
And it was really, as
near as I read it now,
00:44:19.39\00:44:22.76
it was that at the heart
that that caused him to reject,
00:44:22.79\00:44:28.00
to ignore all
the other councils,
00:44:28.03\00:44:31.23
anything that came in the
way of his pride basically.
00:44:31.27\00:44:36.10
Yeah, yeah, in particular
shape and form of pride.
00:44:36.14\00:44:41.14
And that's really what did it.
00:44:41.18\00:44:43.81
And that's something
00:44:43.85\00:44:45.18
that we've all
got to be careful of.
00:44:45.21\00:44:46.55
Indeed.
00:44:46.58\00:44:47.92
Any one of us
could have in our lives
00:44:47.95\00:44:50.02
something that we
have not surrendered
00:44:50.05\00:44:53.36
of self
00:44:53.39\00:44:55.69
that we need to let go of
00:44:55.72\00:44:58.79
or else it could
drag us away from God.
00:44:58.83\00:45:01.33
And that's what I say
is so sobering about it,
00:45:01.36\00:45:03.83
you know, it would have
been one thing if I found that,
00:45:03.87\00:45:06.53
oh, in 1899,
00:45:06.57\00:45:08.94
there was a particular
event and suddenly Kellogg,
00:45:08.97\00:45:11.37
you know, was deranged.
00:45:11.41\00:45:13.44
But it wasn't.
00:45:13.48\00:45:15.14
It was a little thing
00:45:15.18\00:45:18.11
that is a lot
like the little things
00:45:18.15\00:45:20.12
that I have to
deal within my life.
00:45:20.15\00:45:22.32
In the Song of
Solomon, in the Bible,
00:45:22.35\00:45:25.22
it says it's the little
foxes that spoil the grapes.
00:45:25.25\00:45:29.16
It's the little
sins that we hold on to
00:45:29.19\00:45:32.43
that can destroy our lives.
00:45:32.46\00:45:34.23
Because it's those little
sins that leave the door open
00:45:34.26\00:45:39.10
for the devil to
work in our lives
00:45:39.13\00:45:41.44
and drag us away from God.
00:45:41.47\00:45:43.04
It's an old saying
amongst sociologists
00:45:43.07\00:45:45.41
that every
culture, every civilization
00:45:45.44\00:45:48.44
establishes a theology
to meet their practices.
00:45:48.48\00:45:52.11
And we do that,
we tend to do that
00:45:52.15\00:45:53.48
on an independent or an
individual basis as well.
00:45:53.52\00:45:56.48
Instead of fit our
practices in with the theology.
00:45:56.52\00:45:59.09
The theology of truth,
find the truth and fit to that,
00:45:59.12\00:46:02.62
you know, and we have this.
00:46:02.66\00:46:04.49
You know, there's a
danger when we're successful,
00:46:04.53\00:46:06.83
because we
attributed that success,
00:46:06.86\00:46:09.40
not to the one who
gives us the ability,
00:46:09.43\00:46:11.90
but to ourselves and
the I can see that in this,
00:46:11.93\00:46:15.97
you know, the history of Kellogg
00:46:16.00\00:46:17.97
because he, you
know, he's a man,
00:46:18.01\00:46:21.34
just like any one of us...
00:46:21.38\00:46:22.71
A successful
and famous man. Yes.
00:46:22.74\00:46:24.08
Extremely successful, yes.
00:46:24.11\00:46:25.45
And so that's the danger
00:46:25.48\00:46:26.82
and we always need to
attribute everything we do
00:46:26.85\00:46:28.68
in our abilities to God.
00:46:28.72\00:46:30.59
Didn't they have US President,
00:46:30.62\00:46:32.15
some things come
to the Battle Creek?
00:46:32.19\00:46:33.52
Yes, they had the
royalty from Europe,
00:46:33.56\00:46:37.49
they had senators.
00:46:37.53\00:46:40.50
I think the President that came
was not in office at the time.
00:46:40.53\00:46:44.70
He was a former President.
00:46:44.73\00:46:46.17
It was Taft, I believe it was.
00:46:46.20\00:46:48.87
All the titans of the, you know,
00:46:48.90\00:46:51.11
this was the Gilded Age
00:46:51.14\00:46:52.61
of American commercial interest.
00:46:52.64\00:46:56.24
You know, the
John D. Rockefellers.
00:46:56.28\00:46:58.15
He was a frequent guest.
00:46:58.18\00:46:59.51
Ivan Powell, the
Russian scientist
00:46:59.55\00:47:02.18
was a friend of Dr. Kellogg's.
00:47:02.22\00:47:04.82
Henry Firestone,
the tire company,
00:47:04.85\00:47:07.49
and Henry Ford,
the guy from ice,
00:47:07.52\00:47:12.06
was it, hmm,
00:47:12.09\00:47:15.00
IBM International
Business Machines,
00:47:15.03\00:47:17.00
which in those days
00:47:17.03\00:47:18.37
was with the old
manual cash registers,
00:47:18.40\00:47:21.00
you know, yeah.
00:47:21.04\00:47:22.37
But they all
came. They all came.
00:47:22.40\00:47:24.31
So He became very famous
00:47:24.34\00:47:27.78
and very sought
after by very rich
00:47:27.81\00:47:30.45
and influential people.
00:47:30.48\00:47:31.81
Yes, he himself and this is,
00:47:31.85\00:47:33.68
you know, part of the
intrigue of the whole thing.
00:47:33.72\00:47:35.35
He never did become
particularly wealthy himself.
00:47:35.38\00:47:38.32
He could have,
00:47:38.35\00:47:39.69
he could have been
a millionaire times
00:47:39.72\00:47:41.06
over times over times over.
00:47:41.09\00:47:42.59
He's very
generous as an individual.
00:47:42.62\00:47:48.23
But there is a development
that I think is fascinating,
00:47:48.26\00:47:53.54
and I'm going to scoot
ahead to that if I may.
00:47:53.57\00:47:57.41
As Dr. Kellogg really caused
00:47:57.44\00:48:02.84
more trouble,
00:48:02.88\00:48:04.78
and as this book
Living Temple came out,
00:48:04.81\00:48:08.25
and it was disturbing
things and presenting error.
00:48:08.28\00:48:14.26
He was causing a
huge amount of trouble
00:48:14.29\00:48:16.73
for the leaders of
the Adventist Church.
00:48:16.76\00:48:19.26
He was just really
a pain in their neck.
00:48:19.29\00:48:22.30
And he was attacking
them, accusing them of,
00:48:22.33\00:48:26.94
you know, being, well,
00:48:26.97\00:48:29.37
accusing them of
attacking him, basically.
00:48:29.40\00:48:32.31
Yeah, okay.
00:48:32.34\00:48:34.51
He was just causing
them a mountain of grief.
00:48:34.54\00:48:38.21
And then Ellen White
would write something,
00:48:42.05\00:48:45.12
if we can put this
on the screen too here.
00:48:45.15\00:48:49.92
"Some thought the
time had come long ago
00:48:49.96\00:48:52.99
to make a determined effort
00:48:53.03\00:48:54.96
to break the spell
and expose the deception."
00:48:55.00\00:48:58.83
So Kellogg's got this
pantheism stuff out there
00:48:58.87\00:49:01.24
and he's got all
these other things.
00:49:01.27\00:49:03.41
And she says, you know,
00:49:03.44\00:49:05.17
some and I can give
you some of the names,
00:49:05.21\00:49:06.54
you know, A.G. Daniels,
00:49:06.57\00:49:07.91
the General
Conference President,
00:49:07.94\00:49:09.28
W.W. Prescott,
00:49:09.31\00:49:10.65
the Editor of the
Review and Herald,
00:49:10.68\00:49:12.71
the ones that
Kellogg was bashing
00:49:12.75\00:49:14.88
so badly in their way.
00:49:14.92\00:49:16.42
They were, you
know, they were human.
00:49:16.45\00:49:19.05
And they said,
"No, let's come on,
00:49:19.09\00:49:20.79
let's stop this, Sister White.
00:49:20.82\00:49:22.22
You've got information.
00:49:22.26\00:49:24.26
You've got instruction
from God that could stop this.
00:49:24.29\00:49:27.16
Make it visible."
00:49:27.20\00:49:29.26
And that that quote goes on...
00:49:29.30\00:49:30.63
Break the spell. Yes.
00:49:30.67\00:49:32.60
She says, "But I was shown
00:49:32.63\00:49:35.04
that our
brethren must make no move
00:49:35.07\00:49:37.24
until Dr. Kellogg
and his associates
00:49:37.27\00:49:39.47
had taken a decided position
to repudiate the testimonies.
00:49:39.51\00:49:43.88
When this was done,
00:49:43.91\00:49:45.25
we must show our
people the right side
00:49:45.28\00:49:47.25
and take the affirmative
in the name of the Lord."
00:49:47.28\00:49:51.15
Okay, now the
testimony is referred to there
00:49:51.19\00:49:53.52
would be the
writings of Ellen White,
00:49:53.56\00:49:57.73
and this is awkward
00:49:57.76\00:49:59.09
and she hated having to stand up
00:49:59.13\00:50:00.53
and defend her own work.
00:50:00.56\00:50:02.50
But it was not her own work,
00:50:02.53\00:50:03.87
it was the instruction from God.
00:50:03.90\00:50:05.30
And so here's you have this,
00:50:05.33\00:50:06.80
this replay of the
battle in heaven with Lucifer.
00:50:06.84\00:50:11.17
When Lucifer said, "I
will not listen to God."
00:50:11.21\00:50:17.25
He was expelled.
00:50:17.28\00:50:18.85
And what she's saying here
00:50:18.88\00:50:20.65
is when he takes a firm
stand against inspiration,
00:50:20.68\00:50:27.46
that's the time to act.
00:50:27.49\00:50:29.69
The statement goes
on, one more slide here.
00:50:29.72\00:50:33.80
"We had to move,
00:50:33.83\00:50:36.26
and yet we had to wait
00:50:36.30\00:50:38.33
until those in error
00:50:38.37\00:50:40.04
thought they could carry things
00:50:40.07\00:50:42.14
against the
ministers and churches.
00:50:42.17\00:50:45.37
I was shown
their course of action,
00:50:45.41\00:50:47.98
and had everything in
readiness for such a movement
00:50:48.01\00:50:51.05
and labored to defeat
their deep-laid plot."
00:50:51.08\00:50:55.68
I find this fascinating
00:50:55.72\00:50:58.79
because what this tells me
00:50:58.82\00:51:00.46
is that the battle
between good and evil is real.
00:51:00.49\00:51:05.99
It's not just some
sort of spiritual battle,
00:51:06.03\00:51:11.10
it is a spiritual battle,
00:51:11.13\00:51:12.50
but it's a
spiritual battle that requires
00:51:12.53\00:51:14.77
real
intelligence, real strategy,
00:51:14.80\00:51:17.81
real instruction
from, I mean, you know,
00:51:17.84\00:51:21.71
every army in the
world has their spies
00:51:21.74\00:51:24.25
and their intelligence sources.
00:51:24.28\00:51:25.61
Well, we've got God.
00:51:25.65\00:51:27.68
There's a bit of
an advantage there.
00:51:27.72\00:51:29.38
You know, and as she said,
00:51:29.42\00:51:31.42
she was shown in advance
what was going to happen.
00:51:31.45\00:51:34.26
And she was
given the timing of it.
00:51:34.29\00:51:36.16
Not now, not now.
00:51:36.19\00:51:37.53
We must, we had to move
00:51:37.56\00:51:39.69
and yet we had
to wait, she says.
00:51:39.73\00:51:41.70
And I find that so fascinating
00:51:41.73\00:51:43.06
because it makes it a
compelling wartime story
00:51:43.10\00:51:48.70
if that, you know.
00:51:48.74\00:51:50.07
But the battle wasn't
this, the battle was God's.
00:51:50.11\00:51:53.38
The battle was God's.
00:51:53.41\00:51:54.74
And once again, the only weapon
00:51:54.78\00:51:56.75
was the revelation of truth.
00:51:56.78\00:51:59.71
And so, amazingly enough,
00:51:59.75\00:52:01.55
when the final
push came to shove,
00:52:01.58\00:52:04.49
of the whole event came down.
00:52:04.52\00:52:07.52
It actually was
Christmas time 1905,
00:52:07.56\00:52:10.49
and oddly
enough, this is a story
00:52:10.53\00:52:11.99
that Adventist
historians have not told much.
00:52:12.03\00:52:14.66
I was totally unaware
00:52:14.70\00:52:16.20
of this
particular turn of events
00:52:16.23\00:52:17.80
until about six months
ago, just from my own research.
00:52:17.83\00:52:20.00
And I don't know why that is.
00:52:20.04\00:52:21.37
But I'm going to
just hold you there
00:52:21.40\00:52:22.74
because I want
to hear this story.
00:52:22.77\00:52:24.11
But we just going to
take a break for a moment
00:52:24.14\00:52:25.97
to put up our address details.
00:52:26.01\00:52:28.44
And I just want
to mention to you
00:52:28.48\00:52:30.45
that David does do seminars
and lectures around the world
00:52:30.48\00:52:35.88
and I know he's
here in Australia,
00:52:35.92\00:52:38.09
and to share his knowledge
00:52:38.12\00:52:40.49
about the
medical missionary work.
00:52:40.52\00:52:43.26
And if you want to contact him,
00:52:43.29\00:52:44.96
we will give you
his email address
00:52:44.99\00:52:46.49
and his website.
00:52:46.53\00:52:48.33
But for us here,
00:52:48.36\00:52:49.70
I want to thank
you for supporting us
00:52:49.73\00:52:51.30
and if you would like to
do that again, each month,
00:52:51.33\00:52:55.50
that would be a great thing
00:52:55.54\00:52:57.17
to see this part
of these programs
00:52:57.21\00:52:59.67
and anything that we do
here that goes around the world.
00:52:59.71\00:53:02.54
For you to be a part of,
00:53:02.58\00:53:03.91
you can do so by
contacting us at this address.
00:53:03.95\00:53:06.85
If you would like to
contact 3ABN Australia,
00:53:11.45\00:53:13.72
you may do so in
the following ways.
00:53:13.76\00:53:15.72
You may write to 3ABN Australia,
00:53:15.76\00:53:18.16
PO Box 752,
00:53:18.19\00:53:19.96
Morisset, New South
Wales 2264, Australia.
00:53:20.00\00:53:24.07
That's PO Box 752,
00:53:24.10\00:53:26.94
Morisset, New South
Wales 2264, Australia.
00:53:26.97\00:53:30.97
Or you may call 02-4973-3456.
00:53:31.01\00:53:35.71
That's 02-4973-3456
00:53:35.74\00:53:39.85
from 8:30 am to 5
pm Monday to Thursday
00:53:39.88\00:53:43.59
or 8:30 am to 12 pm Fridays,
00:53:43.62\00:53:47.12
New South Wales time.
00:53:47.16\00:53:48.86
You may also email us at
mail@3abnaustralia.org.Au.
00:53:48.89\00:53:54.23
That's
00:53:54.26\00:53:55.60
mail@3abnaustralia.org.Au.
00:53:55.63\00:54:02.00
Thank you for all you do
to help us like the world
00:54:02.04\00:54:04.61
with the glory of God's truth.
00:54:04.64\00:54:06.27
We look forward
to hearing from you,
00:54:09.34\00:54:11.38
our viewers and our listeners
who are very valuable to us.
00:54:11.41\00:54:14.38
But at the moment
00:54:14.42\00:54:15.75
we're talking
with David Fiedler.
00:54:15.78\00:54:17.95
And, David, we're going
to put your email address up
00:54:17.99\00:54:21.36
in case people
want to contact you
00:54:21.39\00:54:22.72
directly.
00:54:22.76\00:54:24.09
Yes, it's D Fiedler,
00:54:24.13\00:54:26.09
that's dfiedler
00:54:26.13\00:54:31.10
@adventistcitymissions.org.
00:54:31.13\00:54:34.77
Adventistcitymissions.org.
00:54:34.80\00:54:37.51
Perfect. Good.
00:54:37.54\00:54:38.87
Now I want to hear
the rest of the story.
00:54:38.91\00:54:40.94
We don't have time,
00:54:40.98\00:54:42.31
much time but
we've got to get it in.
00:54:42.34\00:54:43.98
As Ellen White had said,
00:54:44.01\00:54:45.91
we had to move and
yet we had to wait,
00:54:45.95\00:54:48.75
she was shown their plans
00:54:48.78\00:54:50.85
and she was
instructed as to what to do.
00:54:50.89\00:54:52.95
Well, the
instruction what was said
00:54:52.99\00:54:54.86
we don't have that on the screen
00:54:54.89\00:54:56.22
but what it said was
00:54:56.26\00:54:57.59
have the truth of the
matter all written out,
00:54:57.63\00:55:01.26
ready to publish
at the right time.
00:55:01.30\00:55:03.26
Okay.
00:55:03.30\00:55:04.63
So when's the right time?
00:55:04.67\00:55:06.00
Well, we just
have to wait and see.
00:55:06.03\00:55:07.37
Okay.
00:55:07.40\00:55:08.74
The Lord didn't say, "Oh,
it's going to be on this date."
00:55:08.77\00:55:10.11
He just said, when
this happens, okay.
00:55:10.14\00:55:12.94
Well, in December of 1905,
00:55:12.97\00:55:17.38
Dr. Kellogg took
00:55:17.41\00:55:19.05
a more decided and
open repudiation stand
00:55:19.08\00:55:22.78
against the instruction
he'd received from God.
00:55:22.82\00:55:28.32
Ellen White,
before that happened,
00:55:28.36\00:55:31.69
she was instructed
on the 21st of December,
00:55:31.73\00:55:35.46
she was told to get
certain documents together
00:55:35.50\00:55:38.20
and send them to
Battle Creek, Michigan.
00:55:38.23\00:55:40.34
She wired a
telegram to Elder Daniels
00:55:40.37\00:55:43.17
who was somewhere else
00:55:43.20\00:55:44.54
and said proceed to Battle Creek
00:55:44.57\00:55:45.91
and wait for documents.
00:55:45.94\00:55:47.84
The documents came in
on the morning of the 26th.
00:55:47.88\00:55:52.88
The night of the 25th
00:55:52.91\00:55:54.25
before was one
Kellogg had taken his stand,
00:55:54.28\00:55:56.82
which is to say
four days before Kellogg
00:55:56.85\00:55:58.92
did what he did,
00:55:58.95\00:56:00.29
the Lord told her
00:56:00.32\00:56:01.66
now's the time to
mail the documents.
00:56:01.69\00:56:03.09
The documents
that she gathered up,
00:56:03.12\00:56:05.46
the most pointed one
00:56:05.49\00:56:07.30
had actually been
written on the 4th of January,
00:56:07.33\00:56:12.33
no, excuse me,
00:56:12.37\00:56:13.70
it would have been
the 1st of January, 1904,
00:56:13.74\00:56:18.74
almost two years before.
00:56:18.77\00:56:20.11
The document had been written.
00:56:20.14\00:56:21.48
And in that document
she had quotes of things
00:56:21.51\00:56:24.68
that had been
said in the meeting
00:56:24.71\00:56:26.75
the night before
the document arrived
00:56:26.78\00:56:29.42
in Battle Creek, yes, okay.
00:56:29.45\00:56:32.19
And so, the
power of the rebellion,
00:56:32.22\00:56:35.52
if you wish was largely broken
by this obvious demonstration
00:56:35.56\00:56:40.00
of divine
foreknowledge maneuvered,
00:56:40.03\00:56:44.07
managed in a way that
only God could have done
00:56:44.10\00:56:46.33
to provide the right
document at the right time.
00:56:46.37\00:56:50.54
In fact, the first
person to look at it
00:56:50.57\00:56:52.74
was one of the doctors
00:56:52.77\00:56:54.71
who had sat in the
meeting the night before
00:56:54.74\00:56:56.68
and listening to Dr. Kellogg
00:56:56.71\00:56:58.28
and he recognized the
meeting and he said this,
00:56:58.31\00:57:00.92
"Okay. I'm done."
00:57:00.95\00:57:03.62
How do you combat this?
00:57:03.65\00:57:05.39
And so,
00:57:05.42\00:57:06.76
I think there are
lessons here for our day.
00:57:06.79\00:57:09.72
Rebellion is not
a thing of the past.
00:57:09.76\00:57:11.66
We have not yet come
00:57:11.69\00:57:13.03
to the ultimate
omega of apostasy
00:57:13.06\00:57:15.96
which has been promised.
00:57:16.00\00:57:18.07
And when it comes it will
look much like the real thing.
00:57:18.10\00:57:24.54
A humanitarian message
00:57:24.57\00:57:29.24
that forsakes the
truth of the gospel
00:57:29.28\00:57:31.41
and it still looks the same.
00:57:31.45\00:57:33.21
Anyhow, there you go.
You have to be careful.
00:57:33.25\00:57:34.58
Yes.
00:57:34.62\00:57:35.95
Thank you, David,
00:57:35.98\00:57:37.32
for coming on the
program and sharing that,
00:57:37.35\00:57:38.69
these things we
will always learn
00:57:38.72\00:57:40.26
from past experiences.
00:57:40.29\00:57:41.99
Take note, Jesus is coming soon.
00:57:42.02\00:57:44.16
See you next time.
00:57:44.19\00:57:45.53