Nightlight is coming to
you from Oakwood University,
00:00:10.20\00:00:13.60
the beautiful campus and C.A.,
00:00:13.63\00:00:16.45
we have just
been treated royally
00:00:16.48\00:00:18.14
since we've been here. We have.
00:00:18.17\00:00:19.54
I made a mistake
when Dr. Paula said--
00:00:19.57\00:00:21.27
I called it Oakwood College
and I must ask for forgiveness--
00:00:21.30\00:00:24.44
When I went to school here,
it was Oakwood College and,
00:00:24.47\00:00:28.01
you know, you
think back to those days.
00:00:28.04\00:00:30.24
I'm so glad of the University
and doing such a very,
00:00:30.27\00:00:32.20
very fine job
educating and encouraging
00:00:32.23\00:00:35.87
and inspiring young
people. It really is.
00:00:35.90\00:00:38.64
And we've run into the Oakwood
graduates everywhere we go.
00:00:38.67\00:00:43.24
I mean, you can
go around the world
00:00:43.27\00:00:44.86
and you're gonna run
into Oakwood graduates. Right.
00:00:44.89\00:00:47.32
And we find that so
many of the ministers
00:00:47.35\00:00:50.69
who are trained
here have really,
00:00:50.72\00:00:53.64
have made an
impact upon God's work
00:00:53.67\00:00:55.91
and one of those that
trains these young people
00:00:55.94\00:01:00.30
is Pastor James Doggette.
00:01:00.33\00:01:02.19
Doggette,
Pastor, we welcome you.
00:01:02.22\00:01:04.61
It's good to be
here. Glad to see you.
00:01:04.64\00:01:08.68
Now see, we both C.A.
and I know this gentleman
00:01:08.71\00:01:12.73
and I've known
him for quite a while.
00:01:12.76\00:01:14.31
He and I became
first acquainted, oh,
00:01:14.34\00:01:17.05
back in the late '80s
00:01:17.08\00:01:19.36
and out in
California. That's right.
00:01:19.39\00:01:21.64
And Valley Fellowship church--
Remember those days, yeah--
00:01:21.67\00:01:24.86
I went there to work with you
00:01:24.89\00:01:27.58
on a capital
stewardship program.
00:01:27.61\00:01:30.00
That's right and
we were successful--
00:01:30.03\00:01:31.40
Lord blessed, He really did.
00:01:31.43\00:01:33.24
And that's when we become
acquainted with your ministry.
00:01:33.27\00:01:37.54
Now you say capital stewardship,
00:01:37.57\00:01:38.94
you mean you went out
there to raise some money?
00:01:38.97\00:01:40.34
Well-- Yeah--
00:01:40.37\00:01:41.74
We were trying to build a
new church and in the process,
00:01:41.77\00:01:47.05
he found a church
that had already been built
00:01:47.08\00:01:49.64
and the Lord
provided the funds to buy it.
00:01:49.67\00:01:51.81
Absolutely right--
Through the membership.
00:01:51.84\00:01:53.31
Yeah, and that
program the way it went,
00:01:53.34\00:01:55.34
I knew you were a man of God
00:01:55.37\00:01:56.74
because the way
everything fell into place,
00:01:56.77\00:01:59.48
it was supernatural. praise God.
00:01:59.51\00:02:01.19
It was and I still
believe in the Lord,
00:02:01.22\00:02:03.84
in supernatural
things. And I do too--
00:02:03.87\00:02:06.15
Even helping people find keys.
00:02:06.18\00:02:08.17
Last night, we
lost some keys here
00:02:08.20\00:02:10.91
and I really do believe the
Lord helped us find those keys.
00:02:10.94\00:02:14.40
Were there any car
keys on with the other keys?
00:02:14.43\00:02:17.71
Were they car keys?
They were car keys, yes.
00:02:17.74\00:02:20.15
It was the Lord.
00:02:20.18\00:02:21.55
It was the Lord who
helped you find those keys.
00:02:21.58\00:02:22.95
I'm not kidding you. I
believe it was. I really do.
00:02:22.98\00:02:26.15
But listen, tell us a little
bit about now your background.
00:02:26.18\00:02:30.64
You were--did you go
to school here at Oakwood?
00:02:30.67\00:02:33.17
I did. I graduated
from Oakwood University
00:02:33.20\00:02:36.30
College back in 1982. All right.
00:02:36.33\00:02:39.68
This is a special place
to me and I was so happy
00:02:39.71\00:02:42.04
to have the opportunity
to come back like a tribute
00:02:42.07\00:02:44.57
because I took
away from here so much.
00:02:44.60\00:02:46.29
So you went to
California in ministry--
00:02:46.32\00:02:48.68
you went to Texas
first, didn't you?
00:02:48.71\00:02:50.08
I went down in that area.
Yeah. In that neck of the woods.
00:02:50.11\00:02:52.60
I pastored in Louisiana.
I pastored in Arkansas.
00:02:52.63\00:02:56.23
And didn't make it into
the great state of Texas.
00:02:56.26\00:02:58.26
No, that's all right. Yeah.
00:02:58.29\00:02:59.76
I then went on to California.
00:02:59.79\00:03:01.50
And then-- and
by the way Arkansas
00:03:01.53\00:03:04.24
and Louisiana are two
places very dear to my heart.
00:03:04.27\00:03:07.03
And then you went to California
00:03:07.06\00:03:09.00
and then came back
here as a teacher. I did.
00:03:09.03\00:03:11.98
One stop between
California and Oakwood
00:03:12.01\00:03:15.88
and that was
Cleveland, Ohio. Oh, really?
00:03:15.91\00:03:18.05
That was a great
year of ministry for me
00:03:18.08\00:03:19.89
with some of the most loving
people on the face of the earth.
00:03:19.92\00:03:22.72
Then I came down here to
Oakwood back in 1993. Yes.
00:03:22.75\00:03:27.66
I want to backup
just little bit because
00:03:27.69\00:03:29.06
you are a son of a preacher.
00:03:29.09\00:03:30.46
I knew your dad...
conference president?
00:03:30.49\00:03:32.63
Yes, that's right.
In... Southeastern.
00:03:32.66\00:03:34.87
Southeastern. Down in Florida.
00:03:34.90\00:03:36.27
In fact, I felt like
ministry was in my genes.
00:03:36.30\00:03:40.28
My grandfather was a minister.
In fact, he was the secretary
00:03:40.31\00:03:42.98
of the Southwest
union many years ago.
00:03:43.01\00:03:44.82
Oh, is that
right? That's correct.
00:03:44.85\00:03:46.22
My uncle was a minister.
00:03:46.25\00:03:48.37
My father, my brother, my son,
so ministry is all around me.
00:03:48.40\00:03:55.35
That's right, it is.
Praise God. All right.
00:03:55.38\00:03:57.95
And you have children? I do.
00:03:57.98\00:03:59.78
I have four
sons. Okay. Four sons.
00:03:59.81\00:04:02.75
And thank God
for them, tough guys.
00:04:02.78\00:04:04.31
Oh, yeah. Real men. Yeah.
00:04:04.34\00:04:06.61
Well, one of them is in
ministry? That's correct.
00:04:06.64\00:04:09.35
James Jr., the one who's
named after me. All right.
00:04:09.38\00:04:11.89
From the time he
was a small child
00:04:11.92\00:04:13.64
we used to call
him Samuel. Okay.
00:04:13.67\00:04:15.62
Because we would see him there
in his bedroom on his knees.
00:04:15.65\00:04:18.83
Reading the scriptures and
he milked me for everything
00:04:18.86\00:04:21.46
I knew about the
Bible. Loving the Lord.
00:04:21.49\00:04:23.43
Had opportunity
later right here at Oakwood
00:04:23.46\00:04:25.43
to actually
have evening classes.
00:04:25.46\00:04:27.84
And I'm so excited about
what God's doing with him
00:04:27.87\00:04:30.79
in ministry right
now. Where is he now?
00:04:30.82\00:04:32.44
He's in the
South-central conference.
00:04:32.47\00:04:33.84
He's not very far away.
00:04:33.87\00:04:35.24
He's pastoring right there
00:04:35.27\00:04:36.64
in the shadow of the
University of Alabama.
00:04:36.67\00:04:40.02
Crimson Tide, yeah. All right.
00:04:40.05\00:04:41.51
In Tuscaloosa. He's
got two churches there.
00:04:41.54\00:04:44.00
Loving those
churches and loving ministry.
00:04:44.03\00:04:46.83
Tuscaloosa has been
hit hard with that storm
00:04:46.86\00:04:49.59
that came through there.
00:04:49.62\00:04:51.21
How are they rebounding?
00:04:51.24\00:04:52.83
They're rebounding quite nicely
00:04:52.86\00:04:54.40
because of the University there.
00:04:54.43\00:04:55.80
There are resources,
there's a lot of attention
00:04:55.83\00:04:58.01
that's been given to that area.
00:04:58.04\00:04:59.41
So they're
rebounding quite nicely.
00:04:59.44\00:05:00.89
In fact, faster than some
of the other areas of Alabama
00:05:00.92\00:05:03.88
that did get hit. Okay.
00:05:03.91\00:05:05.99
And was the
church damaged at all?
00:05:06.02\00:05:08.41
The church was
not severely damaged.
00:05:08.44\00:05:11.06
There are two
buildings they have there,
00:05:11.09\00:05:12.69
two different churches,
and both of those churches
00:05:12.72\00:05:14.61
survived quite
nicely-- Praise God. Praise God.
00:05:14.64\00:05:16.55
God put His hand
over those buildings
00:05:16.58\00:05:18.53
and the people really got away.
00:05:18.56\00:05:20.24
Now some of the individuals
in the churches got hit
00:05:20.27\00:05:23.06
very, very hard but
their faith is strong
00:05:23.09\00:05:25.67
and they've all
gotten back on their feet.
00:05:25.70\00:05:27.95
Now what areas do you teach?
00:05:27.98\00:05:30.19
Oh, teaching, now
that's a whole subject
00:05:30.22\00:05:35.58
that I can go into
and spend a lot of time.
00:05:35.61\00:05:37.70
I've taught at
Oakwood for some--
00:05:37.73\00:05:40.50
how many years will it be 20,
00:05:40.53\00:05:41.90
this is year 20 teaching here.
00:05:41.93\00:05:43.47
And I've taught so
many classes. I forgot so--
00:05:43.50\00:05:45.71
But you're
mostly homiletics and--
00:05:45.74\00:05:47.60
That's correct. Practice.
00:05:47.63\00:05:49.00
I'm in Practice.
I'm in applied theology
00:05:49.03\00:05:51.53
and the courses I teach
00:05:51.56\00:05:52.93
have a lot to do with
hands on stuff. Right.
00:05:52.96\00:05:55.58
How you do things? Right.
00:05:55.61\00:05:57.83
That's a natural for me.
00:05:57.86\00:05:59.23
Now there are a
lot of professors
00:05:59.26\00:06:00.63
who teach from theory.
00:06:00.66\00:06:03.16
They read it in books or
they learned it somewhere
00:06:03.19\00:06:07.04
but you took these things
00:06:07.07\00:06:09.01
and went out here
and started a mission.
00:06:09.04\00:06:12.98
Tell me a little about the
church that you've started.
00:06:13.01\00:06:15.60
Yes, no problem.
I always felt that,
00:06:15.63\00:06:18.43
especially, in
the area of practice.
00:06:18.46\00:06:21.12
By the time it reaches a
book it's probably already old.
00:06:21.15\00:06:24.71
So I didn't think I could
teach well from books alone.
00:06:24.74\00:06:28.66
Books give you a lot
of good history. sure.
00:06:28.69\00:06:30.59
But in terms of the latest,
00:06:30.62\00:06:32.51
that's available in
the realm of ministry,
00:06:32.54\00:06:34.43
I, kind of, believed
00:06:34.46\00:06:35.85
I needed to be out
there active in ministry.
00:06:35.88\00:06:38.12
Yes. It's also
the way I'm wired.
00:06:38.15\00:06:39.69
So when we got here,
we were given permission
00:06:39.72\00:06:41.89
by the conference
and school administration
00:06:41.92\00:06:43.88
to start a
churchout in the Madison area,
00:06:43.91\00:06:46.42
that's a suburb of Huntsville.
00:06:46.45\00:06:48.12
And we've been going
strong now for 17 years.
00:06:48.15\00:06:50.51
It's called Madison mission
and God's blessed it 17 years.
00:06:50.54\00:06:53.90
17 years, praise God. Yeah.
00:06:53.93\00:06:55.76
And that has grown
from-- you started out where?
00:06:55.79\00:07:00.28
Well, we started out--
00:07:00.31\00:07:01.83
it's an unusual
development of a church.
00:07:01.86\00:07:04.53
Usually church
plan start very small
00:07:04.56\00:07:06.83
and they grow over time
00:07:06.86\00:07:08.68
but I have to say
the very first Sabbath
00:07:08.71\00:07:10.77
we had a service we were
in a very large facility.
00:07:10.80\00:07:13.42
I thought we'd be swallowed up.
00:07:13.45\00:07:15.10
And there was
standing room only.
00:07:15.13\00:07:16.81
Again that was the Lord.
00:07:16.84\00:07:18.21
I remember going in
there on Friday night,
00:07:18.24\00:07:19.81
looking at that building.
00:07:19.84\00:07:21.21
The only one that we could find
00:07:21.24\00:07:22.61
that was available to use.
00:07:22.64\00:07:24.01
And it was so large.
00:07:24.04\00:07:25.41
I said okay,
we're gonna be swamped.
00:07:25.44\00:07:26.81
We're gonna need to
move everybody down front,
00:07:26.84\00:07:28.82
lope off a lot of these aisles
but it didn't happen that way.
00:07:28.85\00:07:31.55
So from the very beginning,
we've had a full house
00:07:31.58\00:07:34.55
and God's been good. Yes. Yes.
00:07:34.58\00:07:36.86
Well, now what's the membership
00:07:36.89\00:07:39.07
roughly of that congregation?
00:07:39.10\00:07:40.65
The membership at our
church is roughly 500.
00:07:40.68\00:07:43.63
The attendance is
approximately twice that.
00:07:43.66\00:07:46.15
That's what I was gonna say
because you asked me to speak
00:07:46.18\00:07:49.71
there back in
September and I was there.
00:07:49.74\00:07:52.07
And, man, it was
two or three times
00:07:52.10\00:07:54.76
as many people as that. Yeah.
00:07:54.79\00:07:56.54
In that particular--and you have
a nice big family life center.
00:07:56.57\00:08:01.40
And now you are moving rapidly
00:08:01.43\00:08:04.37
towards
building a new sanctuary.
00:08:04.40\00:08:05.81
Absolutely. That's the plan.
00:08:05.84\00:08:07.82
The plan was for
us to have a facility
00:08:07.85\00:08:09.70
we could use
seven days a week. Yeah.
00:08:09.73\00:08:11.66
And start with that.
00:08:11.69\00:08:13.06
I know so many churches,
even some I've pastored,
00:08:13.09\00:08:15.46
that built their sanctuary
first and they're still
00:08:15.49\00:08:18.38
talking about building a family
life center. That's right.
00:08:18.41\00:08:20.95
Church got a little
comfortable in their sanctuary.
00:08:20.98\00:08:22.74
We decided to flip it around.
00:08:22.77\00:08:24.55
And our church can't
possibly be comfortable
00:08:24.58\00:08:26.30
in the family
life center because
00:08:26.33\00:08:28.16
the deacons have to
take the chairs on the racks,
00:08:28.19\00:08:31.03
put them up every week,
00:08:31.06\00:08:32.43
take them down, put
them up, take them down.
00:08:32.46\00:08:35.25
It's always a
reminder every week
00:08:35.28\00:08:36.92
that we're not home yet. Right.
00:08:36.95\00:08:38.76
You know I
looked at it on a map.
00:08:38.79\00:08:41.89
You know, one of the maps
that you see from the satellite
00:08:41.92\00:08:45.05
and they evidently
took the picture for that
00:08:45.08\00:08:48.33
on a Sabbath because you can sit
00:08:48.36\00:08:52.10
in the outline
of your plant there.
00:08:52.13\00:08:55.54
I think it's on
the Shelton drive.
00:08:55.57\00:08:57.56
That's right, Shelton road.
00:08:57.59\00:08:58.96
Danny told me he thought that
was named after him but it's--
00:08:58.99\00:09:02.80
Just let him believe
that. There's no problem.
00:09:02.83\00:09:05.57
And Shelton drive and how
many acres do you have there?
00:09:05.60\00:09:10.64
We've got
approximately 26 acres,
00:09:10.67\00:09:13.18
between 26 and 27 acres.
00:09:13.21\00:09:14.96
Amazing plant.
Beautiful family life center.
00:09:14.99\00:09:18.87
You've got your office complex
00:09:18.90\00:09:21.18
and then you have
a kindergarten type,
00:09:21.21\00:09:24.34
child care type facility
there and then you showed me
00:09:24.37\00:09:28.14
where you were gonna
build that new sanctuary.
00:09:28.17\00:09:30.78
and Camille and I got excited
00:09:30.81\00:09:32.97
when we saw what is happening
there in that particular church.
00:09:33.00\00:09:37.69
The impact you've
made on this community,
00:09:37.72\00:09:39.90
God has just really
poured out His spirit
00:09:39.93\00:09:42.93
in that congregation.
00:09:42.96\00:09:44.33
God is amazing. Yes.
00:09:44.36\00:09:46.32
The thing that I've
learned and I learned this early
00:09:46.35\00:09:48.10
especially that church
when you came and visited me
00:09:48.13\00:09:50.20
years ago is that God's
plans are so much above,
00:09:50.23\00:09:54.50
so far above our plans.
It's amazing. Absolutely.
00:09:54.53\00:09:57.55
And He has ways of
putting the pieces together
00:09:57.58\00:10:00.31
and when you see it develop,
00:10:00.34\00:10:02.05
you often get credit as a human
00:10:02.08\00:10:04.44
but any credit that
I get for the building
00:10:04.47\00:10:06.82
of Madison mission or the
other churches I've been at,
00:10:06.85\00:10:09.50
I'm not being humble in
a fake way when I tell you,
00:10:09.53\00:10:13.33
I really don't
deserve credit, God does--
00:10:13.36\00:10:15.47
I understand exactly
what you're saying because
00:10:15.50\00:10:17.44
Camille and I've many
times made this statement
00:10:17.47\00:10:19.63
that we were just
excited to be a part of ministry
00:10:19.66\00:10:23.09
and to be able to go and
see what God was gonna do.
00:10:23.12\00:10:26.23
Because that's really
what it comes down to.
00:10:26.26\00:10:30.09
What are some of the
community outreach programs
00:10:30.12\00:10:32.87
that you've got going on
there and helping the community?
00:10:32.90\00:10:36.51
We feel blessed. We
are in a unique community.
00:10:36.54\00:10:39.89
It's not like most
of the urban places
00:10:39.92\00:10:41.91
I've pastored before.
00:10:41.94\00:10:43.54
You have a lot of
engineers, young families. Yeah.
00:10:43.57\00:10:46.03
So I think that it was ideal
00:10:46.06\00:10:47.67
that we built a
family life center first
00:10:47.70\00:10:49.90
because we have an
opportunity to open it up
00:10:49.93\00:10:52.25
for athletic activities
and the kind of activities
00:10:52.28\00:10:55.45
that the
community in fact needs.
00:10:55.48\00:10:57.88
They're looking for some things
for their young people to do
00:10:57.91\00:11:00.40
and we can provide that.
00:11:00.43\00:11:01.80
So we opened up
our facility a lot
00:11:01.83\00:11:03.77
and allow leagues to come in,
play sports in a Christian way.
00:11:03.80\00:11:08.43
We're open two nights
a week and we do that.
00:11:08.46\00:11:10.52
They start with worship. Yeah.
00:11:10.55\00:11:12.48
And we are very
clear what our goals are
00:11:12.51\00:11:14.83
but it's an
attractive place in that way.
00:11:14.86\00:11:17.69
I was really impressed
with your congregation.
00:11:17.72\00:11:20.98
You mentioned you've engineers
and people of that stature
00:11:21.01\00:11:24.81
and I was very impressed
with that congregation.
00:11:24.84\00:11:28.11
But also you have entrepreneurs.
00:11:28.14\00:11:30.73
You--we got acquainted with
a lady who has a restaurant.
00:11:30.76\00:11:34.35
That's absolutely right.
00:11:34.38\00:11:36.09
And today Pastor Bradford,
Charles Bradford said to me
00:11:36.12\00:11:42.74
I want to take you out for lunch
00:11:42.77\00:11:44.14
and he took me to
Mangos, Caribbean restaurant.
00:11:44.17\00:11:49.04
And if you want good
vegetarian Caribbean food,
00:11:49.07\00:11:52.46
you can get it
there. Without a question.
00:11:52.49\00:11:54.21
And I will guarantee you,
00:11:54.24\00:11:56.05
we enjoyed
eating at Mangos today.
00:11:56.08\00:11:59.37
And I appreciate
Dr. Bradford treating us
00:11:59.40\00:12:04.13
because we were his
guests and he took care of us.
00:12:04.16\00:12:07.59
But getting
acquainted with that--
00:12:07.62\00:12:09.39
with so many members
of your congregation,
00:12:09.42\00:12:11.85
I have really been impressed
00:12:11.88\00:12:15.74
that God is reaching
people of all strata.
00:12:15.77\00:12:19.62
And you have people
of all strata there.
00:12:19.65\00:12:22.27
I met--I met what I felt like
those financially elite people,
00:12:22.30\00:12:26.85
people that could
drop $100,000 in the plate.
00:12:26.88\00:12:30.38
And then I met people
from almost from the streets
00:12:30.41\00:12:35.14
and they felt
comfortable to be there.
00:12:35.17\00:12:38.48
So it was exciting to be
at that particular location
00:12:38.51\00:12:43.99
and to get
acquainted with those members.
00:12:44.02\00:12:48.77
I can tell you, Elder
Gilley, one of the things
00:12:48.80\00:12:50.52
that God has really
been pouring into me
00:12:50.55\00:12:53.56
is that the realities
of the world are one thing.
00:12:53.59\00:12:57.59
It's what it is,
00:12:57.62\00:12:58.99
all the challenges we
have with society and culture.
00:12:59.02\00:13:02.31
But what the church
is supposed to represent
00:13:02.34\00:13:04.47
is a little bit of
heaven on earth. Yeah, yeah.
00:13:04.50\00:13:06.90
And we're supposed to
really reflect the ideal.
00:13:06.93\00:13:09.87
And if that's true,
00:13:09.90\00:13:11.28
then our churches
probably should show
00:13:11.31\00:13:13.01
a lot more diversity. Yes.
00:13:13.04\00:13:14.90
Then we have often showed. Yes.
00:13:14.93\00:13:17.22
We tend to
coagulate or join together
00:13:17.25\00:13:19.14
based on those things
that we hold in common
00:13:19.17\00:13:21.51
but I found that we are
better community of faith,
00:13:21.54\00:13:24.64
we are more
effective in our outreach
00:13:24.67\00:13:26.70
and we also have an opportunity
to develop real character
00:13:26.73\00:13:30.86
when, in fact, we
have a mix of people
00:13:30.89\00:13:32.69
that are at various
levels different. Yes.
00:13:32.72\00:13:35.63
And I'm striving for them.
00:13:35.66\00:13:37.06
I want to just take
a scoop out of humanity
00:13:37.09\00:13:40.53
and I want to see all of that
00:13:40.56\00:13:42.47
represented inside of
that church-- Exactly.
00:13:42.50\00:13:44.33
And we are seeing
that more and more.
00:13:44.36\00:13:45.80
It's just supposed to be a
reflection of heaven on earth.
00:13:45.83\00:13:49.83
We understand the
challenges today. Yes.
00:13:49.86\00:13:52.31
But given the challenges, we
also know the resources. Yes.
00:13:52.34\00:13:55.44
And God is well
able for churches
00:13:55.47\00:13:58.22
to reflect the
reality of heaven.
00:13:58.25\00:14:00.40
The text that I think
about is "Thy kingdom come,
00:14:00.43\00:14:03.23
Thy will be done on earth
as it is in heaven." Yeah.
00:14:03.26\00:14:07.33
And He's
counting on us to do that.
00:14:07.36\00:14:09.71
That's why I love
fellowshipping with people
00:14:09.74\00:14:11.76
who have more money
than me, less money than me.
00:14:11.79\00:14:15.06
More brains than me,
00:14:15.09\00:14:17.16
fewer brains--
is it fewer brains?
00:14:17.19\00:14:20.71
Just a big mix, I
love it. I love it. Yeah.
00:14:20.74\00:14:24.21
Well, that's what our church
00:14:24.24\00:14:26.28
historically
has been made up of.
00:14:26.31\00:14:28.78
People of all strata where
they can come together and,
00:14:28.81\00:14:32.60
you know, someone has said
00:14:32.63\00:14:34.25
the ground is level
at the foot of the cross.
00:14:34.28\00:14:36.86
We are all
sinners saved by grace
00:14:36.89\00:14:39.85
and it is so wonderful
to actually come together
00:14:39.88\00:14:46.51
and see people of all
status getting along together,
00:14:46.54\00:14:51.42
loving each other,
and enjoying the gospel
00:14:51.45\00:14:56.63
and salvation together.
Absolutely. It really is.
00:14:56.66\00:15:00.08
I can tell you even
working with the students
00:15:00.11\00:15:02.12
it's been a education for me.
00:15:02.15\00:15:03.52
Being here at Oakwood,
00:15:03.55\00:15:04.92
I had an
opportunity to do some teaching
00:15:04.95\00:15:06.66
but I have done a whole lot more
learning than I have taught.
00:15:06.69\00:15:11.02
And one of the things
that young people taught me--
00:15:11.05\00:15:13.23
I came--I grew up
during the Civil Rights era,
00:15:13.26\00:15:16.56
lived in Memphis
when King was shot.
00:15:16.59\00:15:18.93
I've seen some terrible
things happening in the world
00:15:18.96\00:15:21.03
but what the young people
have shown me, not just told me,
00:15:21.06\00:15:24.38
is that we live
in a day and time
00:15:24.41\00:15:26.29
when it is possible
for walls to come down,
00:15:26.32\00:15:30.29
for there to be a
type of brotherhood
00:15:30.32\00:15:32.70
and friendship
amongst various groups
00:15:32.73\00:15:35.43
that
historically have had issues,
00:15:35.46\00:15:37.97
unlike any other
time and the young people
00:15:38.00\00:15:39.89
aren't satisfied with
anything less than that.
00:15:39.92\00:15:42.26
They're tired of hearing those
rehearsed some of the problems
00:15:42.29\00:15:44.73
of the past and they're
ready to hear some solutions
00:15:44.76\00:15:47.57
and see some
settings where in fact
00:15:47.60\00:15:49.69
what we claim to
believe can be lived out.
00:15:49.72\00:15:52.42
And I am loving it
and I'm doing all I can do
00:15:52.45\00:15:55.75
to not be on the back
end of that move. Absolutely.
00:15:55.78\00:15:58.66
Now you talk about
doing all you can do.
00:15:58.69\00:16:00.24
Now you--you know, obviously,
this is the Lord's doing
00:16:00.27\00:16:03.48
and it's marvelous in our eyes
00:16:03.51\00:16:04.88
but given that
you do teach practicum
00:16:04.91\00:16:08.36
so there are methods,
00:16:08.39\00:16:09.76
methodologies that a
pastor can use to try to
00:16:09.79\00:16:12.73
be a more effective tool
in the hands of the Lord.
00:16:12.76\00:16:17.56
Madison mission was
such and I use this term
00:16:17.59\00:16:19.86
for one of the better term
00:16:19.89\00:16:21.26
overnight success
and grew so rapid.
00:16:21.29\00:16:22.84
I remember coming here years ago
00:16:22.87\00:16:24.74
and getting into Huntsville
on Saturday night--Friday night,
00:16:24.77\00:16:29.23
getting to
church a little later,
00:16:29.26\00:16:30.63
I got there maybe 10
o'clock, couldn't get a seat,
00:16:30.66\00:16:34.95
couldn't get a parking
lot, that was years ago.
00:16:34.98\00:16:37.89
So there's something going
on there that is attracting
00:16:37.92\00:16:40.71
and holding young and old.
00:16:40.74\00:16:43.20
What is it about
the methodologies
00:16:43.23\00:16:46.43
that have been put in place
00:16:46.46\00:16:47.83
that makes it such an
attractive place to worship
00:16:47.86\00:16:50.03
and to meet the Lord? Yes.
00:16:50.06\00:16:51.96
There are probably,
are a lot of answers
00:16:51.99\00:16:53.94
and I'm sure some of the
answers I'm not even aware of.
00:16:53.97\00:16:56.60
I will say that my
basic philosophy of ministry
00:16:56.63\00:16:59.77
that I think is consistent
with our times is that
00:16:59.80\00:17:03.05
I am essentially
conservative in theology
00:17:03.08\00:17:07.50
which means that God has
blessed us with some truths
00:17:07.53\00:17:10.73
that have stood the test of time
and will continue to do that.
00:17:10.76\00:17:14.50
But at the same time,
00:17:14.53\00:17:15.90
I'm very liberal
with my methodology.
00:17:15.93\00:17:18.56
That simply means that
we're living in a day of change,
00:17:18.59\00:17:21.78
rapid change and the same
methods of delivery don't work.
00:17:21.81\00:17:26.69
What really was cutting
edge years ago is obsolete
00:17:26.72\00:17:30.88
very quickly and everything
has a short shelf life
00:17:30.91\00:17:34.36
if I can put it that way.
00:17:34.39\00:17:35.76
So I'm very, very clear
00:17:35.79\00:17:37.45
about the
theology that I promote
00:17:37.48\00:17:39.24
which is something that
seems to be very acceptable
00:17:39.27\00:17:41.97
to the young people in
that they may not have heard it
00:17:42.00\00:17:45.01
at the worships,
at their home like
00:17:45.04\00:17:47.71
I did growing up because
00:17:47.74\00:17:49.61
they raised themselves
to a larger--younger people.
00:17:49.64\00:17:52.33
So they're hearing
some of the old teachings
00:17:52.36\00:17:54.56
but they're
getting it in new ways
00:17:54.59\00:17:56.00
wrapped in modern or
post modern clothing.
00:17:56.03\00:17:59.25
And I think that
it's one of the reasons
00:17:59.28\00:18:00.98
that it's worked to be
quite honest with you. Yeah.
00:18:01.01\00:18:03.61
In fact, most don't even know
I'm theologically conservative.
00:18:03.64\00:18:06.97
They're very surprised.
00:18:07.00\00:18:08.37
So you haven't
sold out to orthodoxy
00:18:08.40\00:18:10.36
to try to draw people.
00:18:10.39\00:18:12.00
You just put some new
clothes on it or give it an--
00:18:12.03\00:18:15.36
I don't want to say spin because
that's such a secular term
00:18:15.39\00:18:17.53
but you've adjusted
it to meet the demands
00:18:17.56\00:18:19.90
of the target demographic.
Without a question. Yeah.
00:18:19.93\00:18:23.56
That's my core philosophy
as it relates to ministry.
00:18:23.59\00:18:26.75
I love the life
we've been given.
00:18:26.78\00:18:28.15
I'm not gonna
fool with that at all.
00:18:28.18\00:18:30.09
And you're gonna get that from
what we deliver at that church
00:18:30.12\00:18:33.31
which you're gonna see
some really cutting edge
00:18:33.34\00:18:36.00
technologies being used.
00:18:36.03\00:18:38.00
This is a media age. Yes.
00:18:38.03\00:18:39.92
And we try to stay up with
00:18:39.95\00:18:41.46
what is available
in terms of delivery.
00:18:41.49\00:18:43.98
And I think that does
have some attraction today.
00:18:44.01\00:18:48.50
You know, when you
are training young people,
00:18:48.53\00:18:51.73
are you finding
that you can teach
00:18:51.76\00:18:54.48
some of these things to them?
00:18:54.51\00:18:55.88
Or do they catch them
more than being talked?
00:18:55.91\00:18:59.62
Is it something that is
part of their personality?
00:18:59.65\00:19:02.78
Or is it something that they
can learn in sharing the gospel
00:19:02.81\00:19:06.84
with some of these cutting edge
00:19:06.87\00:19:08.24
and maybe some
different worship styles
00:19:08.27\00:19:10.82
than we have normally had?
00:19:10.85\00:19:12.49
Yeah, I think--I think that
it's both caught and taught.
00:19:12.52\00:19:16.46
I will say this--
I will say this that
00:19:16.49\00:19:20.48
usually we're a day
late with what we believe
00:19:20.51\00:19:24.68
in terms of how to reach people.
00:19:24.71\00:19:26.77
I'm hearing a lot, for instance,
00:19:26.80\00:19:28.17
now about post modernism
but we're really in the post,
00:19:28.20\00:19:31.76
post modern age.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
00:19:31.79\00:19:33.47
People have
started to read books
00:19:33.50\00:19:34.87
about what was yesterday.
00:19:34.90\00:19:36.87
Right now and the pendulum
tends to swing historically.
00:19:36.90\00:19:39.92
Right now, we're
dealing with young people
00:19:39.95\00:19:42.43
who want to hear the old stuff
00:19:42.46\00:19:45.02
because the old
stuff to them is new stuff.
00:19:45.05\00:19:48.30
Yeah. It's new stuff-- I
want to just put a pin there
00:19:48.33\00:19:50.44
because we also heard the
same thing from Leslie Pollard.
00:19:50.47\00:19:55.45
There seems to be
this harking back.
00:19:55.48\00:19:57.67
I mean, we've had
no moorings, no guide,
00:19:57.70\00:20:00.00
nothing to hold
on to for so long.
00:20:00.03\00:20:01.71
Folk are looking for
something to anchor themselves.
00:20:01.74\00:20:03.86
We went swinging
free much too much
00:20:03.89\00:20:05.95
and it seems like
that the young people--
00:20:05.98\00:20:07.95
and not only
have we been swinging,
00:20:07.98\00:20:10.44
people have been
catering to that swinging.
00:20:10.47\00:20:11.89
Right. You know, we've
been just drifting to it.
00:20:11.92\00:20:14.29
So all of a sudden
there's this harking back to,
00:20:14.32\00:20:16.54
I want something that I
can, kind of, anchor myself to
00:20:16.57\00:20:19.97
and you're seeing
that in your pastoring.
00:20:20.00\00:20:21.67
Without a doubt, I mean,
00:20:21.70\00:20:23.07
if you think about
it, post modernism,
00:20:23.10\00:20:25.48
to me it's the equivalent
of living at Disneyland.
00:20:25.51\00:20:29.28
You know, nothing is real.
00:20:29.31\00:20:30.85
It's all pleasant
looking but nothing's real,
00:20:30.88\00:20:33.19
nothing's really solid.
00:20:33.22\00:20:34.77
And I think that's
a nice place to visit
00:20:34.80\00:20:37.05
and we visited
that for a few years.
00:20:37.08\00:20:39.70
But where we are now, they're
looking for something solid
00:20:39.73\00:20:42.48
that they can hold on to.
00:20:42.51\00:20:43.97
The void is some intellectual
content that's been missed
00:20:44.00\00:20:48.27
because people have been so
excited about being free enough
00:20:48.30\00:20:52.70
to experience some
emotion in their worship.
00:20:52.73\00:20:54.59
Yes. And right now,
00:20:54.62\00:20:55.99
the pendulum's swinging back
00:20:56.02\00:20:57.39
and people are
saying, "I'm not excited
00:20:57.42\00:20:59.28
about all the
noise anymore." Yeah.
00:20:59.31\00:21:01.07
"Give me something of substance.
I want some nutrition.
00:21:01.10\00:21:04.69
I want it to taste good." Yes.
00:21:04.72\00:21:06.16
"But can you give something
that can keep me strong?"
00:21:06.19\00:21:08.43
We--Jim and I were
talking about that it,
00:21:08.46\00:21:09.83
because we're saying, you know,
00:21:09.86\00:21:11.23
it's nice to have a
little frosting on yourcake.
00:21:11.26\00:21:13.36
But all frosting on cake,
you got to have some vegetables,
00:21:13.39\00:21:17.43
you got to have some substance
00:21:17.46\00:21:18.83
and we have had
frosting for so long.
00:21:18.86\00:21:20.23
And when you turn on
your television sometimes,
00:21:20.26\00:21:21.63
all you hear is frosting. Yeah.
00:21:21.66\00:21:23.03
But you can't live on sugar.
00:21:23.06\00:21:25.26
No, you can't. You
got to have some vitamins.
00:21:25.29\00:21:26.69
No, you can't. Yeah.
00:21:26.72\00:21:28.09
We have talked a little
about the pendulum going
00:21:28.12\00:21:34.31
back and forth on things of
this nature and when you talk
00:21:34.34\00:21:38.91
about the frosting on the cake
and emotionalism and so forth,
00:21:38.94\00:21:43.86
different people
react different ways.
00:21:43.89\00:21:46.61
Adventists are
different than other people.
00:21:46.64\00:21:50.37
For instance, I was feasting
with some Pentecostal friends
00:21:50.40\00:21:54.31
and when Pentecostals get--
00:21:54.34\00:21:57.27
when they get
moved, they get excited.
00:21:57.30\00:22:02.01
When Adventists get
moved, they get quiet.
00:22:02.04\00:22:05.53
Now this isn't true for
all groups but it is true for,
00:22:05.56\00:22:09.39
it is definitely
true for the group
00:22:09.42\00:22:10.92
obviously preaching too.
00:22:10.95\00:22:12.35
If they get real quiet,
that means the Holy Spirit's
00:22:12.38\00:22:15.71
really speaking to their heart.
00:22:15.74\00:22:17.75
If they get very still--
now you go to some groups
00:22:17.78\00:22:22.34
and when the Holy Spirit
is moving in their hearts,
00:22:22.37\00:22:24.64
they're standing up, see?
00:22:24.67\00:22:26.56
So you got to
know your congregation.
00:22:26.59\00:22:29.21
Without a question.
00:22:29.24\00:22:30.61
And you have to
understand your congregation.
00:22:30.64\00:22:33.42
Some people come
to, well, for instance,
00:22:33.45\00:22:35.72
when I was pastoring in
Dallas or even in Arlington,
00:22:35.75\00:22:39.14
when they got quiet
that meant the spirit of God
00:22:39.17\00:22:43.23
was really
moving on their hearts.
00:22:43.26\00:22:45.63
And, so many times
a visiting preacher
00:22:45.66\00:22:47.87
might misinterpret that.
00:22:47.90\00:22:49.42
He might not understand that
he's actually really getting
00:22:49.45\00:22:54.47
through at that
particular point.
00:22:54.50\00:22:57.14
And again, as I mentioned,
some groups when they get
00:22:57.17\00:23:00.48
really moved emotionally
then they react differently.
00:23:00.51\00:23:04.61
Without a question.
00:23:04.64\00:23:06.01
I think that's one of
the challenges though.
00:23:06.04\00:23:07.41
We talk a lot about
diversity and churches
00:23:07.44\00:23:10.11
being a reflection of a scoop
of what is real in terms of
00:23:10.14\00:23:14.26
society and heaven on
earth, every nation, kindred,
00:23:14.29\00:23:17.56
tribe, tongue,
people, we talk about it.
00:23:17.59\00:23:19.54
But that requires a
humility beyond what sometimes
00:23:19.57\00:23:22.49
we're willing
to exhibit because,
00:23:22.52\00:23:24.71
you are absolutely right,
00:23:24.74\00:23:26.11
there is one culture that I
know that at end of a good meal,
00:23:26.14\00:23:29.37
you're supposed to
burp if you like it.
00:23:29.40\00:23:31.16
Yeah. Just a real big burp.
00:23:31.19\00:23:32.97
And if you don't they
think you don't like the meal.
00:23:33.00\00:23:34.37
Exactly. But there're
other cultures that would be--
00:23:34.40\00:23:37.11
I don't know
what culture that is
00:23:37.14\00:23:38.51
but I think I'd
make it out there.
00:23:38.54\00:23:39.91
You want to be there.
00:23:39.94\00:23:41.39
There are other
cultures where you're supposed
00:23:41.42\00:23:43.06
to finish the food
on your plate. Right.
00:23:43.09\00:23:45.14
We live in that
kind of culture. Right.
00:23:45.17\00:23:46.61
But there are some others--
00:23:46.64\00:23:48.01
You're supposed to
leave a little there.
00:23:48.04\00:23:49.41
You're supposed to leave--yeah,
okay, so if that's true,
00:23:49.44\00:23:50.89
if that's true
then the significance,
00:23:50.92\00:23:53.00
isn't just in the act but
in the meaning of the act.
00:23:53.03\00:23:55.36
Right. True.
00:23:55.39\00:23:56.76
And we've got to take a
little time to learn others.
00:23:56.79\00:23:58.57
You're saying that you
know of those who get quiet.
00:23:58.60\00:24:01.08
Oh, yes. I know of some,
00:24:01.11\00:24:02.66
if they're quiet,
they've gone to sleep already.
00:24:02.69\00:24:04.40
Yes, they are. And
they're disinterested.
00:24:04.43\00:24:06.63
So there're different
reactions that may mean
00:24:06.66\00:24:08.46
the same thing and we
tend to focus on the reaction
00:24:08.49\00:24:11.49
as being right
or wrong, the act,
00:24:11.52\00:24:13.84
what in reality,
it's what that represents.
00:24:13.87\00:24:16.07
And so that requires
a little bit of humility
00:24:16.10\00:24:19.40
so that I give
room for people to be
00:24:19.43\00:24:21.13
somewhat authentic
in their expressions.
00:24:21.16\00:24:23.92
In teaching
practices, are you in teaching--
00:24:23.95\00:24:27.63
and some of this is just
something you don't teach,
00:24:27.66\00:24:30.69
that people just know.
00:24:30.72\00:24:32.09
But are you teaching
these young preachers
00:24:32.12\00:24:33.93
how to read
people? Without a question.
00:24:33.96\00:24:36.31
Because in many cases,
if in sales for instance,
00:24:36.34\00:24:41.07
if you're a salesperson and
you cannot read the prospect,
00:24:41.10\00:24:44.31
you'll starve to death. Right.
00:24:44.34\00:24:45.98
You will never make the sale.
00:24:46.01\00:24:48.27
An evangelist, if you cannot
read your audience and if you
00:24:48.30\00:24:51.15
cannot read the interest
when you're visiting with them,
00:24:51.18\00:24:54.64
you will never get decisions.
00:24:54.67\00:24:56.74
So they have to
learn body language.
00:24:56.77\00:25:00.19
They have to
learn-- because 92% of all
00:25:00.22\00:25:03.72
communication is non-verbal.
00:25:03.75\00:25:06.98
Somebody can be saying I
love you and at the same time
00:25:07.01\00:25:10.75
their body is not saying that.
00:25:10.78\00:25:12.60
Yeah, their body's saying,
but you better not go to sleep.
00:25:12.63\00:25:15.39
Or, you better not
come close to me, right?
00:25:15.42\00:25:18.47
And somebody else can be
saying well, the words may not
00:25:18.50\00:25:22.84
be exactly what they're saying
and I think it's so important
00:25:22.87\00:25:26.68
for us to teach young
people to be observant.
00:25:26.71\00:25:30.11
That is so true.
00:25:30.14\00:25:31.51
And to understand this
type of, what's going on?
00:25:31.54\00:25:35.02
What is the real
reaction of a person?
00:25:35.05\00:25:37.24
Or what's the
reaction to the person
00:25:37.27\00:25:38.83
who is saying nothing?
00:25:38.86\00:25:40.59
But you've got to read
their face on what is saying,
00:25:40.62\00:25:45.41
are they saying,
continue talking,
00:25:45.44\00:25:47.51
are they saying shut up? Right.
00:25:47.54\00:25:49.32
And by the way,
one of the things that
00:25:49.35\00:25:51.61
we found in visitation is that
you reach your maximum level
00:25:51.64\00:25:57.79
in about eight minutes
and if you have not hit
00:25:57.82\00:26:02.99
certain things by
about eight to ten minutes
00:26:03.02\00:26:06.57
and if you're
not getting in there,
00:26:06.60\00:26:08.09
you're probably
not gonna make it.
00:26:08.12\00:26:09.49
So... this is something I
learned from Ferris Thurman
00:26:09.52\00:26:12.30
more than anybody else.
00:26:12.33\00:26:14.16
And when you get beyond
that point--and especially
00:26:14.19\00:26:17.66
the hospital visit, that's
about a maximum hospital visit.
00:26:17.69\00:26:22.14
We do teach that concept though.
00:26:22.17\00:26:23.58
I think our curriculum
actually has embraced that
00:26:23.61\00:26:26.26
as a very
important concept. Yeah.
00:26:26.29\00:26:28.27
In several classes that I teach,
one of them being homiletics,
00:26:28.30\00:26:31.46
or preaching,
biblical preaching.
00:26:31.49\00:26:33.62
We have--spend a little
time telling the students
00:26:33.65\00:26:36.89
or teaching the students
to not just exegete scripture
00:26:36.92\00:26:40.11
but to also successfully
exegete their audience.
00:26:40.14\00:26:43.78
Then in Christian ministry
where we teach those who're
00:26:43.81\00:26:46.65
going to be
pastors how to pastor.
00:26:46.68\00:26:49.26
We spend time as well teaching
them to read temperaments
00:26:49.29\00:26:53.26
and personality types
so that they can figure out
00:26:53.29\00:26:56.08
what people mean and not
just what they're saying.
00:26:56.11\00:26:59.09
And by the way this
is not manipulating.
00:26:59.12\00:27:01.48
We're not talking about
a manipulative type thing.
00:27:01.51\00:27:04.90
We're talking about
understanding people,
00:27:04.93\00:27:06.70
these are things that the school
of hard knocks teaches you.
00:27:06.73\00:27:10.44
For instance, in the old days,
00:27:10.47\00:27:13.30
particularly
canvassing was a big thing.
00:27:13.33\00:27:16.29
Well, I want to tell
you, if you didn't learn
00:27:16.32\00:27:18.80
to read people when
you were canvassing,
00:27:18.83\00:27:20.79
selling Christian literature,
I will guarantee you,
00:27:20.82\00:27:24.06
you'd never sell a book.
You would never sell anything.
00:27:24.09\00:27:26.86
You had to know
when you're wasting time,
00:27:26.89\00:27:29.83
when you need to say
hey, listen and pack up
00:27:29.86\00:27:32.46
and leave or when
you're needed to go ahead
00:27:32.49\00:27:34.85
and ask for the order or what.
00:27:34.88\00:27:37.27
So you learned so many of
those things in that type of--
00:27:37.30\00:27:41.47
and that was the greatest
experience for canvassing
00:27:41.50\00:27:44.55
was learning to deal
and work with people.
00:27:44.58\00:27:48.14
And these are the kind of
things that--I don't know that
00:27:48.17\00:27:51.63
you can totally teach them
but some guys you could never
00:27:51.66\00:27:55.11
get it through to them and
they'll never be successful
00:27:55.14\00:27:57.77
but those that are
successful and pick up on this
00:27:57.80\00:28:01.68
and learn it, they
can really be utilized.
00:28:01.71\00:28:04.68
I know there're some
people gonna misunderstand me
00:28:04.71\00:28:06.44
and think, that's
manipulation but those people
00:28:06.47\00:28:09.73
simply never have
worked with people. Right.
00:28:09.76\00:28:12.55
And had to get--get them
to help them to make decisions
00:28:12.58\00:28:15.89
for Jesus and
things of that nature.
00:28:15.92\00:28:17.42
Whatever you don't
know, I think that you can
00:28:17.45\00:28:19.46
always cross a
line and take a thing.
00:28:19.49\00:28:21.52
That's good too far. Absolutely.
00:28:21.55\00:28:23.45
But clearly we
need to read each other.
00:28:23.48\00:28:25.36
I think that just
intuitively we know that,
00:28:25.39\00:28:27.79
a husband and
wife have learned that.
00:28:27.82\00:28:30.11
Yeah. That you know?
00:28:30.14\00:28:31.51
I learned for instance,
in studying temperaments
00:28:31.54\00:28:33.37
and some of the tools that
are used that there are certain
00:28:33.40\00:28:36.73
temperament types
that when they really care,
00:28:36.76\00:28:40.38
they're gonna
criticize you. Yeah.
00:28:40.41\00:28:41.93
Because they want you to
get it right above all people.
00:28:41.96\00:28:44.92
They want you to look
good and get it right.
00:28:44.95\00:28:47.08
So their contribution
to you is a criticism
00:28:47.11\00:28:50.39
and if they don't care,
they're not gonna say anything.
00:28:50.42\00:28:52.27
They're not
gonna say anything. No.
00:28:52.30\00:28:53.67
And if you're married to
one of your preacher by the way,
00:28:53.70\00:28:56.10
they're gonna tell you that
00:28:56.13\00:28:57.50
you've used that
illustration before.
00:28:57.53\00:28:58.90
They will. They will.
00:28:58.93\00:29:01.72
But you learn to interpret it
when you understand a person's
00:29:01.75\00:29:05.14
temperament and
what they really mean.
00:29:05.17\00:29:07.37
You can then say,
"they're not putting me down,
00:29:07.40\00:29:09.30
they don't just like me.
00:29:09.33\00:29:10.70
They care about me so much.
00:29:10.73\00:29:12.34
They want me to just get
it better," it as a gift.
00:29:12.37\00:29:15.31
Of course it takes a
heaping helping of humility
00:29:15.34\00:29:18.20
to be able to pull that off.
00:29:18.23\00:29:19.80
Yeah. But it does happen.
00:29:19.83\00:29:22.87
We've talked about ministering
to your flock, per se,
00:29:22.90\00:29:25.41
but I want to get
back to something because
00:29:25.44\00:29:27.27
you talked about building
your community services center
00:29:27.30\00:29:30.11
or your service center before
your sanctuary because obviously
00:29:30.14\00:29:33.44
you had in your mind,
00:29:33.47\00:29:34.84
which is something
that's close to my heart,
00:29:34.87\00:29:36.46
reaching out to the community
as well as reaching out
00:29:36.49\00:29:39.53
and pastoring your flock.
00:29:39.56\00:29:41.38
Talk about some of
the kinds of things,
00:29:41.41\00:29:43.32
besides the
basketball and the other things,
00:29:43.35\00:29:44.72
that your church does to
reach out to Madison and to that
00:29:44.75\00:29:47.06
community that surrounds
your church? Absolutely.
00:29:47.09\00:29:49.17
There're so many ministries
that we get involved in.
00:29:49.20\00:29:52.05
There're some ministries
I learn that in the course
00:29:52.08\00:29:55.16
of church programming, we
sometimes set up ministries
00:29:55.19\00:29:57.78
as permanent that
are really temporary.
00:29:57.81\00:30:00.16
There are issues that come
up every year that are times
00:30:00.19\00:30:03.13
sensitive and we have
ministries to address that.
00:30:03.16\00:30:05.64
There are certain kind
of at risk groups that need
00:30:05.67\00:30:08.50
help in certain
ways and the programs,
00:30:08.53\00:30:10.57
aren't necessarily written
up, we have to create them.
00:30:10.60\00:30:13.44
We actually have an
arm of community activism
00:30:13.47\00:30:18.00
and that term just simply
means our focus is in being
00:30:18.03\00:30:21.84
a blessing out in
the community around.
00:30:21.87\00:30:24.66
We have Jody Thompson who works
00:30:24.69\00:30:26.53
with the Ellen
White estates. Oh, yes.
00:30:26.56\00:30:28.20
Who actually helps to give
some leadership in that area.
00:30:28.23\00:30:30.91
And we do things like, we
connect with the drug court
00:30:30.94\00:30:35.07
in Huntsville and Madison.
00:30:35.10\00:30:36.93
There is a judge who has
a lot of confidence in us,
00:30:36.96\00:30:39.14
she was at our
church very recently.
00:30:39.17\00:30:41.12
And she asks us to
provide Bibles for the persons
00:30:41.15\00:30:45.03
who are involved
in drug court trying
00:30:45.06\00:30:46.64
to get over that problem.
00:30:46.67\00:30:48.60
We have an opportunity to
have persons sent our way,
00:30:48.63\00:30:51.03
I actually stood in front
of the judge a few weeks ago
00:30:51.06\00:30:54.35
and helped with a young
man, who in fact had a problem.
00:30:54.38\00:30:59.83
And that young man
needed someone to vouch for him
00:30:59.86\00:31:02.30
and say that I will be
there to be beside him.
00:31:02.33\00:31:04.80
And I was there.
00:31:04.83\00:31:06.20
And the judge really
gave him a wonderful word.
00:31:06.23\00:31:09.07
And gave him some additional
freedoms because of that.
00:31:09.10\00:31:11.67
So, we try to be a
blessing in areas like that.
00:31:11.70\00:31:13.96
We have a food bank.
00:31:13.99\00:31:15.36
Right now, economics.
00:31:15.39\00:31:16.95
It's a big problem. Oh, yeah.
00:31:16.98\00:31:18.35
We have people
who are very trained,
00:31:18.38\00:31:20.07
they're not lazy but
they cannot find work.
00:31:20.10\00:31:23.27
And we have a
commitment that everyone needs
00:31:23.30\00:31:25.21
to be able to
eat and have a roof
00:31:25.24\00:31:27.07
over their heads. Yes.
00:31:27.10\00:31:28.47
So we exhaust our resources
as much as we can to make sure
00:31:28.50\00:31:31.33
that people have
needs met in that area.
00:31:31.36\00:31:33.71
And we have a
good number of people
00:31:33.74\00:31:35.11
from the community that come in
00:31:35.14\00:31:36.51
and they get food
on a weekly basis.
00:31:36.54\00:31:39.10
We do tutorial programs.
00:31:39.13\00:31:41.16
We even have a program that
we ran that we call bounce back.
00:31:41.19\00:31:45.65
That's for individuals
again, tough economic times,
00:31:45.68\00:31:48.41
who've written bad
checks and get in trouble.
00:31:48.44\00:31:51.04
And when they get in troubled
the kind of program that
00:31:51.07\00:31:53.21
we put together and we actually
worked with one of the colleges
00:31:53.24\00:31:56.30
in the area not
Oakwood but another college.
00:31:56.33\00:31:59.20
People were sent to us to
get training on how to manage
00:31:59.23\00:32:02.85
their finances
better and that included
00:32:02.88\00:32:05.08
a moral dimension. Yeah.
00:32:05.11\00:32:06.65
And that is right
up our alley. Yeah.
00:32:06.68\00:32:08.39
Talking about honesty.
00:32:08.42\00:32:10.02
And we are able to do
things like that because
00:32:10.05\00:32:12.37
we're always trying to
analyze what the community
00:32:12.40\00:32:15.10
needs not looking
for the latest program
00:32:15.13\00:32:17.31
that's been drawn up
from a distanceplace.
00:32:17.34\00:32:20.37
And then we're
going out there trying
00:32:20.40\00:32:21.77
to design what
can meet that need.
00:32:21.80\00:32:23.39
Yeah, see that's the kind
of rubber meets the road stuff
00:32:23.42\00:32:25.87
that gives you standing and
credibility in the community
00:32:25.90\00:32:29.31
and turns the evangelism into
a process not just an event.
00:32:29.34\00:32:32.07
Absolutely. I like that, yeah.
00:32:32.10\00:32:33.47
And that's something that you
cannot just teach from books,
00:32:33.50\00:32:37.09
you have to be out there.
00:32:37.12\00:32:38.92
And I was speaking to our
head of religion department,
00:32:38.95\00:32:42.75
one of our major
universities in the church
00:32:42.78\00:32:46.17
and I was telling
him that I felt like,
00:32:46.20\00:32:48.45
every member of this
religion staff should also be
00:32:48.48\00:32:53.22
pastoring a church, it may
be a small church or whatever.
00:32:53.25\00:32:55.85
Oh, he said there's
just no way we could do that.
00:32:55.88\00:32:58.29
Well, you've proven
that they can do it.
00:32:58.32\00:33:01.36
There're others that
have also proven that.
00:33:01.39\00:33:04.10
We found as I've
looked at major seminaries
00:33:04.13\00:33:07.51
around the nations,
from other denominations,
00:33:07.54\00:33:10.30
many of those
men pastor churches.
00:33:10.33\00:33:13.17
This way they
stay in touch. Yes.
00:33:13.20\00:33:17.03
With what's going on.
00:33:17.06\00:33:18.43
They're on the cutting edge.
00:33:18.46\00:33:19.84
They're saying what
will work by working
00:33:19.87\00:33:22.78
or saying what doesn't work
00:33:22.81\00:33:25.04
by failing with it. Yeah.
00:33:25.07\00:33:26.55
And this way--it's
not just a brain thing.
00:33:26.58\00:33:30.39
It's not just a-- and
many times we've seen that
00:33:30.42\00:33:33.85
young people would go to
an educational institution
00:33:33.88\00:33:37.18
to study for the ministry
and loose their zeal. Right.
00:33:37.21\00:33:41.43
For evangelism and just want
to study and parse verbs. Right.
00:33:41.46\00:33:45.50
And get to know Hebrew
better than anybody else. Right.
00:33:45.53\00:33:48.97
And look at some
archeological discovery
00:33:49.00\00:33:51.68
and dig around in a
cave somewhere. Yeah.
00:33:51.71\00:33:53.71
And that's okay. Sure.
00:33:53.74\00:33:55.44
But the main reason we're there
is to touch people's lives,
00:33:55.47\00:34:00.29
to win souls to
Jesus and to help them.
00:34:00.32\00:34:03.37
And this is what
excites me about your program
00:34:03.40\00:34:06.84
more than any that I've seen.
00:34:06.87\00:34:08.95
Because you're in the classroom
but you're in the field.
00:34:08.98\00:34:12.71
And you're reaching out
to people and want to applaud
00:34:12.74\00:34:16.23
the ministry that God has given
you here at Oakwood University.
00:34:16.26\00:34:21.04
And we appreciate what's
you're doing, Pastor Doggette,
00:34:21.07\00:34:23.81
I want you to
know--Doctor Doggette--
00:34:23.84\00:34:25.43
I want to know, allright?
00:34:25.46\00:34:26.83
I'm Jimmy to you. All right.
00:34:26.86\00:34:28.83
I definitely do
appreciate that my model
00:34:28.86\00:34:31.75
for ministry--I have some
earthly persons I look up to,
00:34:31.78\00:34:35.03
my dad, and my brother, and you,
00:34:35.06\00:34:37.42
Elder Murray. I
look up to you all.
00:34:37.45\00:34:39.20
I really, really do.
I'm not just saying that
00:34:39.23\00:34:41.36
but in addition to
that and greater than that
00:34:41.39\00:34:43.80
I look to Jesus. Oh, yes.
00:34:43.83\00:34:45.67
As the gold
standard in all areas of life
00:34:45.70\00:34:48.42
and ministry as it
relates to preaching
00:34:48.45\00:34:50.85
he told stories, parables. Yeah.
00:34:50.88\00:34:53.07
So I promote that you
even exegete your text
00:34:53.10\00:34:55.99
and when you've
got it right you see
00:34:56.02\00:34:57.73
it as a story that can be told.
00:34:57.76\00:34:59.59
Yes. Jesus told stories.
00:34:59.62\00:35:00.99
Yes Absolutely.
00:35:01.02\00:35:02.39
And he trained his
disciples, the whole issue
00:35:02.42\00:35:03.79
of discipleship was Jesus
said we're not going to stay
00:35:03.82\00:35:07.37
in a backroom of
the sanctuary temple.
00:35:07.40\00:35:10.12
We're gonna go there on
the road and we're gonna spend
00:35:10.15\00:35:12.84
some time touching
lives and we'll comeback
00:35:12.87\00:35:15.44
together debrief, we'll go
into the intellectual content
00:35:15.47\00:35:19.29
of the faith, we'll do that.
00:35:19.32\00:35:20.84
That's important, too.
00:35:20.87\00:35:22.24
But we're not
going to do it while
00:35:22.27\00:35:23.64
we're separated
from service. Yeah.
00:35:23.67\00:35:25.37
And I think you really
find your stride in ministry,
00:35:25.40\00:35:28.68
you learn how to use
your tools and sharpen
00:35:28.71\00:35:31.27
them when engaged in ministry.
00:35:31.30\00:35:34.14
Obviously, when you leave school
00:35:34.17\00:35:36.05
you have more
time to do it everyday.
00:35:36.08\00:35:38.33
But even while you're in school
or while you're teaching in one
00:35:38.36\00:35:41.38
of our schools I think you
have to be engaged in ministry.
00:35:41.41\00:35:44.90
We got to follow
the model of Christ.
00:35:44.93\00:35:46.52
Amen, Yeah, I really
do. Very, very positive.
00:35:46.55\00:35:48.96
Well, listen, we
really appreciate you coming
00:35:48.99\00:35:51.04
and by the way,
when the guest leaves
00:35:51.07\00:35:54.21
I'm gonna have to go with him.
00:35:54.24\00:35:55.61
Because, I--Southwest
Airlines and I have deal
00:35:55.64\00:35:59.06
and that is that if I'm
there I get to go on the plane
00:35:59.09\00:36:03.06
and if I am not there
they leave without me.
00:36:03.09\00:36:05.63
And if I don't leave
right now for the airport
00:36:05.66\00:36:09.87
there is no way that
I'm gonna be able to catch
00:36:09.90\00:36:12.10
this next plane to
my next appointment.
00:36:12.13\00:36:14.45
But I want to read this
next part of this to you before
00:36:14.48\00:36:17.61
I leave and I think our
next guests is going to be--
00:36:17.64\00:36:20.71
is it Timothy
McDonald maybe with us?
00:36:20.74\00:36:22.44
Sure he is, he's
coming in just a little bit.
00:36:22.47\00:36:23.97
And he is the vice
president of Oakwood University.
00:36:24.00\00:36:28.15
But I want to read this to you
00:36:28.18\00:36:29.55
'cause I do
want you to get this.
00:36:29.58\00:36:32.82
Keep about your work, He
has not sent you to make money.
00:36:32.85\00:36:36.32
He has not
commanded you to get rich.
00:36:36.35\00:36:39.12
He has not bidden you
to defend your character.
00:36:39.15\00:36:42.29
He has not set you at
work to contradict falsehood
00:36:42.32\00:36:45.09
with Satan and His
service may start to peddle.
00:36:45.12\00:36:48.40
If you do these things
you would do nothing else.
00:36:48.43\00:36:51.99
You will be at work for
yourself and not for the Lord.
00:36:52.02\00:36:57.27
Well, I'm gonna-- I tell you,
00:36:57.30\00:36:59.96
I wanted to send
this to you and we do.
00:36:59.99\00:37:01.93
And so call us at 618 627 4651
00:37:01.96\00:37:07.33
or freeoffer@3abn.org
00:37:07.36\00:37:12.74
And we wanna send
it out to you just
00:37:12.77\00:37:14.51
as soon as we possibly can.
00:37:14.54\00:37:16.49
And by the way, if you do call
and you're able to contribute
00:37:16.52\00:37:20.70
something tonight
we can use your help.
00:37:20.73\00:37:23.37
It's by your prayers
00:37:23.40\00:37:25.31
and financial
support that 3ABN continues.
00:37:25.34\00:37:29.18
And it's only by that.
00:37:29.21\00:37:31.76
It's a miracle that
3ABN is in existence of all.
00:37:31.79\00:37:35.70
It really is Jim.
00:37:35.73\00:37:37.10
And it
continues to be a miracle.
00:37:37.13\00:37:38.50
It continues to be a
miracle that you took the words,
00:37:38.53\00:37:40.30
as they say, out
of my mouth. Right.
00:37:40.33\00:37:41.70
That it
continues to be a miracle.
00:37:41.73\00:37:43.10
I want to just talk about
something because we are right
00:37:43.13\00:37:44.93
in the midst of--we mentioned
this in the first hour. Right.
00:37:44.96\00:37:47.25
We're in the midst of
our anchors of truth series.
00:37:47.28\00:37:50.55
This is an anchors away--I'm
gonna hold out this flier
00:37:50.58\00:37:53.69
and perhaps one of the cameras
can get in tight on this.
00:37:53.72\00:37:57.69
Can you see that?
00:37:57.72\00:37:59.55
It's the flier that
Oakwood University has been
00:37:59.58\00:38:01.97
passing out in the neighborhood
and gives a list of speakers
00:38:02.00\00:38:05.75
and we just try to
get this in kind of tight.
00:38:05.78\00:38:08.59
Really a wonderful
wonder of advertisement
00:38:08.62\00:38:10.96
for this special anchors away.
00:38:10.99\00:38:14.31
Last night, we had
Carlton Burt and of course
00:38:14.34\00:38:17.40
this is being
shown on Thursday night.
00:38:17.43\00:38:19.10
Tonight, Pastor Debleaire Snell,
00:38:19.13\00:38:20.97
he's a pastor of
the first church,
00:38:21.00\00:38:23.11
first church here in
Huntsville followed by
00:38:23.14\00:38:26.00
Doctor James
Doggette on tomorrow.
00:38:26.03\00:38:27.83
Sabbath morning is
Doctor Lesley Pilot
00:38:27.86\00:38:31.05
who is the president of
this very fine institution
00:38:31.08\00:38:33.99
we had him in the
first hour and then another
00:38:34.02\00:38:37.13
pastor/teacher/professor
00:38:37.16\00:38:40.80
Doctor Jesse Wilson who assists
00:38:40.83\00:38:43.67
Doctor James
Doggette at Madison mission.
00:38:43.70\00:38:46.39
So we've got a
great week of preaching.
00:38:46.42\00:38:49.18
We're excited to
be here in Huntsville,
00:38:49.21\00:38:50.69
Alabama and we
know that you are, also.
00:38:50.72\00:38:53.65
I'm gonna take a
moment while we're waiting
00:38:53.68\00:38:55.07
for our next guest, come to
read this last little section
00:38:55.10\00:38:59.12
of our "Keep about your
work" because I think its
00:38:59.15\00:39:02.65
such a wonderful work
and a wonderful reading.
00:39:02.68\00:39:07.22
It says, "Keep about your work.
00:39:07.25\00:39:09.44
Let your aim be
as steady as a star.
00:39:09.47\00:39:13.57
Let the world brawl and bubble.
00:39:13.60\00:39:16.31
You may be
assaulted, wronged, insulted,
00:39:16.34\00:39:20.28
slandered, wounded and rejected.
00:39:20.31\00:39:23.69
You may be abused by friends
and despised and rejected
00:39:23.72\00:39:30.06
of men but see to it
with steadfast determination,
00:39:30.09\00:39:34.17
with unfaltering zeal that
you pursue the great purpose
00:39:34.20\00:39:38.87
for your life and the
object of your being until
00:39:38.90\00:39:42.96
at last you can say,
'I have finished the work
00:39:42.99\00:39:47.78
which thou gaveth me to do.'
00:39:47.81\00:39:50.06
" This is the
kind of thing that you
00:39:50.09\00:39:51.58
can put on your refrigerator.
00:39:51.61\00:39:54.00
As we said, it is
suitable for framing.
00:39:54.03\00:39:55.78
This is a cardstock
it's not just a simple paper.
00:39:55.81\00:39:58.93
But it's a cardstock,
frames very, very well
00:39:58.96\00:40:01.37
and I've seen a number
of people frame this in fact
00:40:01.40\00:40:04.40
we're gonna do this at my house.
00:40:04.43\00:40:05.80
But this is something that 3ABN
00:40:05.83\00:40:07.31
will be more than
pleased to send to you.
00:40:07.34\00:40:09.51
And its
something you can rehearse
00:40:09.54\00:40:10.91
to yourself, to your friends,
00:40:10.94\00:40:13.62
you know, you get
those times when you're down.
00:40:13.65\00:40:15.08
You got those
times when you're sad.
00:40:15.11\00:40:16.48
You get those times
when you're stressed.
00:40:16.51\00:40:19.87
And you can read
yourself into peace.
00:40:19.90\00:40:22.89
We'll be glad to
send this to you,
00:40:22.92\00:40:24.29
more than happy to do so.
00:40:24.32\00:40:25.69
If you will call us 618 627 465i
00:40:25.72\00:40:29.86
or email us at free offer.
00:40:29.89\00:40:31.88
One word freeoffer@3abn.org
00:40:31.91\00:40:36.43
and we will get
this in the mail to you.
00:40:36.46\00:40:38.05
And as I've said
in the first half
00:40:38.08\00:40:39.88
if it takes a day
or too longer to come
00:40:39.91\00:40:42.41
it's on the way but
this has been responded to
00:40:42.44\00:40:45.16
with great enthusiasm
00:40:45.19\00:40:46.70
and our call
center is getting it out
00:40:46.73\00:40:48.61
just as fast as
they possibly can.
00:40:48.64\00:40:50.48
Call us email, us
we'll get it to you
00:40:50.51\00:40:52.79
and we'll be glad to do so.
00:40:52.82\00:40:54.23
Well, Timothy McDonald is here
00:40:54.26\00:40:55.85
we're gonna ask him
to come and join me.
00:40:55.88\00:40:58.52
Vice President here
at Oakwood University,
00:40:58.55\00:41:01.83
you know--Elder
I am back in a days
00:41:01.86\00:41:04.74
when this was Oakwood
college. Every now and again
00:41:04.77\00:41:06.35
I flip and call Oakwood College.
00:41:06.38\00:41:08.71
But it is Oakwood University
00:41:08.74\00:41:10.11
good to have you
here. Thank you very much.
00:41:10.14\00:41:11.51
Yeah, you've been
here a little while.
00:41:11.54\00:41:13.07
Its okay if you could say
Oakwood College. Thank you.
00:41:13.10\00:41:16.94
We have a past we
correct everybody. Yeah.
00:41:16.97\00:41:19.56
The wrong way...
and just take it--
00:41:19.59\00:41:22.05
I appreciate it.
Now I've remembered--
00:41:22.08\00:41:24.88
oh, you got to grab your
microphone. There you go.
00:41:24.91\00:41:26.99
There you go. Yeah.
00:41:27.02\00:41:29.75
I remember back in
the days when I had hair
00:41:29.78\00:41:31.70
and the hair you
had with was black.
00:41:31.73\00:41:33.10
So we've been we've
been here a longtime.
00:41:33.13\00:41:35.69
You have a good memory.
00:41:35.72\00:41:38.11
Give us a little history of
how you came to this school.
00:41:38.14\00:41:42.70
Infact let's back before that.
00:41:42.73\00:41:44.31
Grew up in Adventist home?
00:41:44.34\00:41:45.71
No, no, my
family became Adventist
00:41:45.74\00:41:49.77
while when I was teenager.
00:41:49.80\00:41:51.17
I'm from Pittsburg Pennsylvania
00:41:51.20\00:41:54.04
and there was a local church
00:41:54.07\00:41:56.52
was conducted at
tenderfoot on Valley Avenue
00:41:56.55\00:41:59.91
in the Hill
district of Pittsburgh
00:41:59.94\00:42:01.40
for those of you who
know Pittsburgh. Uh-huh.
00:42:01.43\00:42:03.40
And my family attended
00:42:03.43\00:42:05.59
and we were convinced
that this is the church to join
00:42:05.62\00:42:08.65
and it's
interesting that my mother had,
00:42:08.68\00:42:10.35
had studies years before
00:42:10.38\00:42:12.10
because when we
joined the church
00:42:12.13\00:42:14.04
and we started studying
00:42:14.07\00:42:15.44
and learning about
the Adventists message
00:42:15.47\00:42:17.14
I remember seeing those
beasts on the wall of my house.
00:42:17.17\00:42:21.71
When I was a child and
we were always, of course,
00:42:21.74\00:42:24.44
engrossed by
that fascinated by it.
00:42:24.47\00:42:27.43
So when we
learned about the beast
00:42:27.46\00:42:28.98
we said that's the church
that we knew about years ago
00:42:29.01\00:42:31.51
and when we joined
I was 14 years old.
00:42:31.54\00:42:34.67
It's like how people
respond to those beasts
00:42:34.70\00:42:36.25
because actually the
beast kind of delayed
00:42:36.28\00:42:38.17
my mother coming to
church for about five years.
00:42:38.20\00:42:40.05
Because those
beast kind of scared
00:42:40.08\00:42:41.45
her to death. I understand.
00:42:41.48\00:42:42.85
She said I don't know I if
I want to go to that church
00:42:42.88\00:42:44.39
or meeting that has all those
beasts--but when she came in,
00:42:44.42\00:42:46.88
of course, and she
was delighted to do so.
00:42:46.91\00:42:48.46
It is one thing for your
family to join the church
00:42:48.49\00:42:50.55
when did Christ
become personal for you.
00:42:50.58\00:42:54.31
Probably not until I
actually came to Oakwood.
00:42:54.34\00:42:56.69
I joined as soon as I was
14 and we were having a party,
00:42:56.72\00:43:02.22
I remember very well.
00:43:02.25\00:43:03.62
This is a couple of
years later for some young man
00:43:03.65\00:43:06.22
from the church
who were going away
00:43:06.25\00:43:07.66
to Oakwood college
in those days. Oh, yes.
00:43:07.69\00:43:10.62
And of course we didn't
know any much about Oakwood
00:43:10.65\00:43:13.33
and there was a
party on Saturday night
00:43:13.36\00:43:15.77
and they were giving them gifts
00:43:15.80\00:43:17.34
and they were talking about
00:43:17.37\00:43:19.13
all the wonderful experiences
that they were gonna have
00:43:19.16\00:43:21.31
and what they
were gonna major in
00:43:21.34\00:43:23.27
and my mother was
so impressed with this.
00:43:23.30\00:43:25.49
This was Saturday night.
00:43:25.52\00:43:27.54
On Monday
morning I was in the car
00:43:27.57\00:43:30.04
with them on my
way to this place.
00:43:30.07\00:43:31.44
Are you kidding?
00:43:31.47\00:43:32.84
Yes, four young
men and we came down
00:43:32.87\00:43:35.54
in the one car to
Oakwood College. Yeah.
00:43:35.57\00:43:37.31
And I've never been
to the south before.
00:43:37.34\00:43:39.93
I had never attended
00:43:39.96\00:43:41.33
an Adventists
institution before.
00:43:41.36\00:43:43.04
So it was all new.
It was all fascinating
00:43:43.07\00:43:45.18
and it was just a
wonderful experience. Yeah.
00:43:45.21\00:43:48.14
And that's when I
really began to know
00:43:48.17\00:43:50.96
what Christ meant
to me in those days.
00:43:50.99\00:43:53.52
Once you got to the campus
was it an easy settle in for you
00:43:53.55\00:43:56.79
or kind of tough
making that adjustment.
00:43:56.82\00:43:58.94
It was relatively easy I
didn't have any problems.
00:43:58.97\00:44:03.35
It was a big adjustment
00:44:03.38\00:44:04.75
getting use to the
south in those days. Oh yes.
00:44:04.78\00:44:06.89
If you remember that
was the south in 1958.
00:44:06.92\00:44:10.80
That was more
than 50 years ago. Yes.
00:44:10.83\00:44:12.86
And Huntsville like much
of the south was segregated.
00:44:12.89\00:44:16.06
Even though,
it's very interesting
00:44:16.09\00:44:18.80
we learned that even segregation
00:44:18.83\00:44:21.26
in Huntsville,
Alabama was different
00:44:21.29\00:44:23.89
from segregation
in other places--
00:44:23.92\00:44:25.91
Yes, it's always been a
different sort of the town.
00:44:25.94\00:44:27.52
Always different. Yes, yes.
00:44:27.55\00:44:28.92
There was much more congenial
relationships between the races.
00:44:28.95\00:44:33.20
And it's very interesting
to have gone through that
00:44:33.23\00:44:35.10
and experienced it because
00:44:35.13\00:44:36.50
that's one of the
reasons why Ellen White-- Yes.
00:44:36.53\00:44:38.89
Back in 1890s
said that the church
00:44:38.92\00:44:43.39
should establish a
school in Huntsville. Yes.
00:44:43.42\00:44:46.73
Because the
relationship between the races
00:44:46.76\00:44:49.54
was more tolerable
than it was in other parts.
00:44:49.57\00:44:52.01
In another places, yes, yes.
00:44:52.04\00:44:53.41
So I certainly experienced that
in my experience of coming here.
00:44:53.44\00:44:56.68
But it was kind of
unsettling to go downtown
00:44:56.71\00:45:01.11
and to see white
and a black or white
00:45:01.14\00:45:03.57
and colored water fountain
or white and a colored bathroom.
00:45:03.60\00:45:08.01
Those kinds of things
were very unsettling to me.
00:45:08.04\00:45:10.87
And into go into a
restaurant and be denied service
00:45:10.90\00:45:13.67
because of what
color you are. Yes.
00:45:13.70\00:45:15.37
I had not experienced
those things in Pennsylvania.
00:45:15.40\00:45:17.47
So those were
difficult to get over
00:45:17.50\00:45:19.97
but we were able to do it.
00:45:20.00\00:45:21.86
Plus in those days
the college provided
00:45:21.89\00:45:26.43
the kind of support
that we really didn't have
00:45:26.46\00:45:28.56
to go in town for
many things. Yes, yes.
00:45:28.59\00:45:30.92
In fact they really didn't
want us to go in town. Hmm.
00:45:30.95\00:45:34.06
That's why they provided
00:45:34.09\00:45:35.46
a lifestyle more
conducive to. Yes.
00:45:35.49\00:45:38.13
Christian Adventist
lifestyle here on the campus.
00:45:38.16\00:45:40.54
Uh-huh.
Everything was in the campus.
00:45:40.57\00:45:42.04
What did you study
when you were here?
00:45:42.07\00:45:43.59
I started education.
00:45:43.62\00:45:45.30
I was influenced by a gentleman
00:45:45.33\00:45:47.46
that I know, you know,
Gaines Patrice. Oh, yes.
00:45:47.49\00:45:50.42
Who was a long time teacher
in the education department?
00:45:50.45\00:45:54.24
And I didn't have any idea
00:45:54.27\00:45:55.64
where I really wanted to
major in college remember.
00:45:55.67\00:45:57.75
I only had two days
notice to even come. Yeah.
00:45:57.78\00:46:00.86
So when I got here Gaines
was one of the first persons
00:46:00.89\00:46:04.13
that I met on the campus
00:46:04.16\00:46:06.20
and there were as I said
four of us and three of us
00:46:06.23\00:46:10.85
three of us where
influenced by Gaines Patrice
00:46:10.88\00:46:13.43
to go into teaching.
00:46:13.46\00:46:15.60
Can I name them, is
that all right? You may?
00:46:15.63\00:46:17.32
Herb Nelson, Elbert Peterson
00:46:17.35\00:46:19.05
and myself we've
all studied education,
00:46:19.08\00:46:21.33
elementary education
under Gaines Patrice.
00:46:21.36\00:46:24.10
And Gaines, kind of
got us under this idea that
00:46:24.13\00:46:28.96
schools need young men.
00:46:28.99\00:46:30.60
We need strong young men. Yeah.
00:46:30.63\00:46:32.35
Into to handle
00:46:32.38\00:46:34.94
especially African American
young men in the school system.
00:46:34.97\00:46:38.03
They're
encountered women all the time
00:46:38.06\00:46:40.28
so we need you young
men to come and be teachers
00:46:40.31\00:46:43.44
and become principals
and then superintendents
00:46:43.47\00:46:45.95
and work your way through.
00:46:45.98\00:46:47.35
So that's one reason
why I got into education
00:46:47.38\00:46:49.06
and the three of
us have had education
00:46:49.09\00:46:52.66
our entire careers. Wow.
00:46:52.69\00:46:54.14
And we still
collaborate on those
00:46:54.17\00:46:55.54
same kinds of
things. Praise God.
00:46:55.57\00:46:56.94
Now when you when left here
did you go away from Oakwood
00:46:56.97\00:46:58.84
and then comeback or did you
stay pretty much in this area.
00:46:58.87\00:47:00.93
I stayed pretty much,
00:47:00.96\00:47:02.33
well, when I graduated
from Oakwood I guess in 1963.
00:47:02.36\00:47:06.09
I guess I did kind
of do a wide circle.
00:47:06.12\00:47:08.66
I had my first teachings job
00:47:08.69\00:47:10.35
at the DuPont Park
School in Washington D.C. Yes.
00:47:10.38\00:47:13.86
And guess who my principal
was. Couldn't have been--
00:47:13.89\00:47:16.65
You don't have any idea. No.
00:47:16.68\00:47:18.19
J.L. Moran, Oh my--
00:47:18.22\00:47:20.63
J.L. Moran who had been
00:47:20.66\00:47:22.19
the first African
American President. Yes.
00:47:22.22\00:47:25.16
At Oakwood
University at in the 30s,
00:47:25.19\00:47:28.22
had, of course, had a
very illustrious career
00:47:28.25\00:47:31.18
here at Oakwood
and in the prime forge
00:47:31.21\00:47:33.75
and then I think he actually
retired in the D.C. area
00:47:33.78\00:47:37.46
they brought him
out of retirement,
00:47:37.49\00:47:39.31
when they started
the dupoint park school.
00:47:39.34\00:47:40.91
And he was the
principal, Bless his heart.
00:47:40.94\00:47:42.68
So when I went there
1963 and he was my principal
00:47:42.71\00:47:45.71
and serving as a
role model for me.
00:47:45.74\00:47:47.75
I met my wife there
00:47:47.78\00:47:49.15
and she was also
teaching there. Great.
00:47:49.18\00:47:51.13
Of course, she
wasn't my wife then we,
00:47:51.16\00:47:52.89
of course, dated
and became, you know,
00:47:52.92\00:47:55.11
a couple there and got married
00:47:55.14\00:47:57.11
right in the dupoint
park church as teachers. Yeah.
00:47:57.14\00:48:00.34
Both in the school.
Before our time gets away.
00:48:00.37\00:48:03.25
Of course you're getting
good. You cut me off so soon.
00:48:03.28\00:48:06.87
Oh, we are not going yet. Okay.
00:48:06.90\00:48:08.27
But as vice president
here talk to us a little bit
00:48:08.30\00:48:10.38
about your duties and what
you're doing here at Oakwood.
00:48:10.41\00:48:13.26
My job for the last year
00:48:13.29\00:48:15.69
little more than a year now
00:48:15.72\00:48:17.15
has been provost and
senior vice president.
00:48:17.18\00:48:21.60
At Oakwood, the provost,
unlike at many institutions
00:48:21.63\00:48:25.62
has
administrative responsibilities
00:48:25.65\00:48:27.66
but I am not responsible
for the academic programs.
00:48:27.69\00:48:31.22
So I serve as a second
command to our president,
00:48:31.25\00:48:33.49
Doctor Lesley Pilot.
00:48:33.52\00:48:35.18
And I have other
administrative duties
00:48:35.21\00:48:36.89
that cut across
the entire campus.
00:48:36.92\00:48:39.27
Things like information
technology the switchboard.
00:48:39.30\00:48:43.90
The service learning
program that was starting
00:48:43.93\00:48:45.97
that was actually
rolling out this year.
00:48:46.00\00:48:48.74
That will cover
the entire institution.
00:48:48.77\00:48:51.72
Aspects, of faculty
and staff development.
00:48:51.75\00:48:55.32
We're conducting workshops were
00:48:55.35\00:48:58.86
middle manage staff members
can learn more about leadership
00:48:58.89\00:49:04.14
and making decision,
making and consensus building
00:49:04.17\00:49:07.68
and those kinds of things.
00:49:07.71\00:49:09.08
So those kinds of administrator
duties are cut across
00:49:09.11\00:49:11.28
the campus come
under my responsibility as,
00:49:11.31\00:49:13.73
well, as one of the
larger federal programs
00:49:13.76\00:49:16.55
that we organize in
the campus. I see, I see.
00:49:16.58\00:49:18.42
You've had a long
history with this school.
00:49:18.45\00:49:21.85
Talk to us a little bit
about the kinds of young people
00:49:21.88\00:49:26.36
that you're getting today.
00:49:26.39\00:49:28.29
Doctor Pilot we spoke before
00:49:28.32\00:49:29.89
he said he's very
encouraged, as he looks at.
00:49:29.92\00:49:32.24
You know, there's
chaos in the world
00:49:32.27\00:49:33.64
but it seems like
Oakwood is attracting
00:49:33.67\00:49:35.21
a committed kind of young people
00:49:35.24\00:49:36.84
and our future is in good hands.
00:49:36.87\00:49:38.95
Do you see that
from your vantage point?
00:49:38.98\00:49:40.74
I do, I do, I really do.
00:49:40.77\00:49:42.44
And I think a lot of it
has to do with what I believe
00:49:42.47\00:49:47.31
our president has
done to set the stage.
00:49:47.34\00:49:50.71
Doctor Pilot
came in with the idea
00:49:50.74\00:49:53.27
that the spiritual life
of the student had to lead,
00:49:53.30\00:49:56.09
that was the most important
that was the foundation.
00:49:56.12\00:49:59.30
The foundation even a good
academic career is built. Yes.
00:49:59.33\00:50:03.59
To get the spiritual part of
the campus established first.
00:50:03.62\00:50:07.49
So for
instance, this school here
00:50:07.52\00:50:09.08
we started out with
a theme "God first."
00:50:09.11\00:50:13.21
In our first chapel we
started out with God first.
00:50:13.24\00:50:16.78
And doctor Pollard
was able to roll out
00:50:16.81\00:50:19.20
the idea of
having four chaplains.
00:50:19.23\00:50:20.99
He probably, talked about
that in your interview with him.
00:50:21.02\00:50:23.54
Four chaplains,
for student enrolment
00:50:23.57\00:50:26.01
that was little more we
have a little more than 2000.
00:50:26.04\00:50:27.81
That, puts the priority
00:50:27.84\00:50:29.83
where we think it belongs. Yes.
00:50:29.86\00:50:31.53
On the spiritual dimensions.
00:50:31.56\00:50:32.93
We want to students to
know that there are people
00:50:32.96\00:50:35.53
that they can pray with
they can be counseled with.
00:50:35.56\00:50:38.61
They can go to
when they have problems.
00:50:38.64\00:50:40.72
Of course, it
happens with the all
00:50:40.75\00:50:42.12
of the faculty and staff. Yes.
00:50:42.15\00:50:43.54
But, they have
four chaplains dedicated
00:50:43.57\00:50:45.73
to the spiritual life
of the campus. Praise God.
00:50:45.76\00:50:47.78
It's the significant thing.
00:50:47.81\00:50:49.26
So I think when the
president established
00:50:49.29\00:50:50.94
that foundation he
laid that foundation
00:50:50.97\00:50:53.51
for--we're going to
be a spiritual campus.
00:50:53.54\00:50:56.39
All of our
research, all of our surveys
00:50:56.42\00:50:59.01
show that our
students even students in 2012,
00:50:59.04\00:51:03.66
they would look for and
need that spiritual foundations.
00:51:03.69\00:51:07.12
We learned so
much from those surveys
00:51:07.15\00:51:08.71
that what
they're looking for. Yes.
00:51:08.74\00:51:10.31
In a good Christian seventh-day
Adventists education.
00:51:10.34\00:51:13.48
The spirituality is first
00:51:13.51\00:51:15.28
and foremost in
everything we do.
00:51:15.31\00:51:16.94
And then we follow that up with
00:51:16.97\00:51:18.34
our faculty and
staff colloquium.
00:51:18.37\00:51:19.74
God first--so we
had the students,
00:51:19.77\00:51:22.24
then the faculty and the staff.
00:51:22.27\00:51:24.00
God for us
laying that foundation
00:51:24.03\00:51:25.73
that we what
really want in our faculty
00:51:25.76\00:51:27.13
and staff to do with curriculum
00:51:27.16\00:51:29.54
and with the
spirituality of the campus.
00:51:29.57\00:51:31.18
Yeah and I wanna
follow up on that
00:51:31.21\00:51:33.00
because it is one
thing for faculty staff,
00:51:33.03\00:51:36.21
president, vice
president, to set this culture
00:51:36.24\00:51:38.74
to build this platform.
00:51:38.77\00:51:41.28
Do you see buy in by
the student population?
00:51:41.31\00:51:44.61
I do--we have
discovered for instance
00:51:44.64\00:51:48.51
that the most important
service of all the services
00:51:48.54\00:51:54.09
that we conduct on a campus.
00:51:54.12\00:51:56.05
From Sabbath schools on
Sabbath to church service,
00:51:56.08\00:51:59.11
to worship programs
throughout the week.
00:51:59.14\00:52:03.12
Chapel, the program
that the students felt
00:52:03.15\00:52:07.98
was the most important for them
00:52:08.01\00:52:10.01
was the Friday
night AY. Friday night AY.
00:52:10.04\00:52:13.82
Just it was jus the
fascinating thing to see them
00:52:13.85\00:52:16.70
all say that was the service
00:52:16.73\00:52:18.91
that they felt
was most important
00:52:18.94\00:52:20.31
for their spiritual foundation.
00:52:20.34\00:52:22.42
Now the interesting thing
about this is when you back
00:52:22.45\00:52:25.04
to the Oakwood might day
and somewhat even your day.
00:52:25.07\00:52:28.67
If you remember, we always
loved Friday Night Vespers.
00:52:28.70\00:52:32.53
We did. Yes. Yes.
00:52:32.56\00:52:33.93
Friday Night
Vespers was so important.
00:52:33.96\00:52:35.33
So even though
the name has changed--
00:52:35.63\00:52:38.35
and even the style
of music has changed,
00:52:38.38\00:52:41.10
it's still the
important spiritual foundation
00:52:41.13\00:52:43.31
that our students
want to get. Indeed, yeah.
00:52:43.34\00:52:44.71
So even though they have a
lot of new ideas about life
00:52:44.74\00:52:47.71
and exaggerated by, of course,
the society in which we live.
00:52:47.74\00:52:52.50
I think they still value
00:52:52.53\00:52:53.90
and appreciate the
spiritual foundation.
00:52:53.93\00:52:56.21
Even today, even today in chapel
00:52:56.24\00:52:59.12
one of our four
chaplains spoke today.
00:52:59.15\00:53:01.54
The female chaplain and
the students were captivated
00:53:01.57\00:53:06.34
by her representation and
what it takes to be spiritual.
00:53:06.37\00:53:10.20
And the discussion and
the examples that she gave
00:53:10.23\00:53:13.73
as to how God can
come into our life
00:53:13.76\00:53:16.31
and affect our life's on a
daily and a realistic basis.
00:53:16.34\00:53:20.35
Now and just to see
that in fact I was hoping
00:53:20.38\00:53:22.09
you guys even recording
00:53:22.12\00:53:23.49
that today it would
have been a great program.
00:53:23.52\00:53:24.92
It would have been. But, I even
those students are different
00:53:24.95\00:53:27.29
I still think they look
for those same basic things
00:53:27.32\00:53:30.25
that we try to make
sure that they receive
00:53:30.28\00:53:32.05
with an
Adventists institution. Yeah.
00:53:32.08\00:53:34.08
Let me ask to you one of
those kind of high concept
00:53:34.11\00:53:35.78
on to logical questions we
toss out every now and again.
00:53:35.81\00:53:39.64
You've been here a good while
00:53:39.67\00:53:41.04
and put a lot of your life
00:53:41.07\00:53:42.44
into this institution.
Twenty years. Twenty years.
00:53:42.47\00:53:43.92
What gets you up each morning?
00:53:43.95\00:53:45.76
What motivates you,
what about this thing
00:53:45.79\00:53:50.31
that we call Oakwood University
00:53:50.34\00:53:51.71
and Christian
education excites you each day
00:53:51.74\00:53:53.97
to get a put on
your shirt and tie.
00:53:54.00\00:53:55.38
Put on your shoes and
come out and do your jobs.
00:53:55.41\00:53:57.42
That's a great question.
00:53:57.45\00:53:59.02
I ask myself that
every morning. Yeah.
00:53:59.05\00:54:01.42
Especially now I mean
I'm in my seventies now. Yes.
00:54:01.45\00:54:04.78
And I say to my wife and
to myself, is this the day
00:54:04.81\00:54:09.45
that may be I
should you know step aside
00:54:09.48\00:54:11.45
and let one of the other
younger guys take it over.
00:54:11.48\00:54:13.90
And by the way we're
looking for the younger guys
00:54:13.93\00:54:15.89
to take my place.
00:54:15.92\00:54:17.67
Because that's a part of
succession planning. Yes.
00:54:17.70\00:54:20.24
But you know everyday
first something happens
00:54:20.27\00:54:24.09
and I just feel
energized to keep doing it.
00:54:24.12\00:54:28.25
And I believe and I am
really sincere about this
00:54:28.28\00:54:31.23
I believe the
Lord will let me know
00:54:31.26\00:54:32.63
when its time to stop
he will tell me that, okay.
00:54:32.66\00:54:36.24
I think you've done your job.
00:54:36.27\00:54:37.79
You've done your duty
now its time to let it go.
00:54:37.82\00:54:40.41
But I also feel
that as long as I have
00:54:40.44\00:54:41.97
that good
feeling to get up and go,
00:54:42.00\00:54:43.52
the will to get up and do it.
00:54:43.55\00:54:46.07
And the students
and my colleagues
00:54:46.10\00:54:48.73
and my boss still feels
that I have a contribution
00:54:48.76\00:54:52.21
to make and I am
gonna keep doing this. Amen.
00:54:52.24\00:54:55.06
I want you just and we got
the about a minute in change
00:54:55.09\00:54:57.78
to look into that camera there
and complete this question.
00:54:57.81\00:55:02.38
Working parent? When you
sacrifice to send your son
00:55:02.41\00:55:08.41
your daughter to Oakwood college
00:55:08.44\00:55:11.26
here's what we pledge we
will try to do for that job.
00:55:11.29\00:55:16.83
I love what our President
had said just recently,
00:55:16.86\00:55:20.67
coming to Oakwood University,
00:55:20.70\00:55:22.40
sending you child
to Oakwood University,
00:55:22.43\00:55:24.44
he knows that
incorrect when you said college.
00:55:24.47\00:55:26.87
It's not just a
four year proposition,
00:55:26.90\00:55:30.69
coming to Oakwood University
where you're going to get
00:55:30.72\00:55:32.85
a quality Christian education
is a forty year life commitment.
00:55:32.88\00:55:38.65
And we make sure that it
happens while they're here
00:55:38.68\00:55:41.30
and that'll last all
through their life's.
00:55:41.33\00:55:43.46
Not just for four years
00:55:43.49\00:55:44.86
but for the next
forty years of their lives.
00:55:44.89\00:55:46.51
Praise God. We have
spent some time on this campus.
00:55:46.54\00:55:52.70
Of course, a
graduate of this campus
00:55:52.73\00:55:54.10
and every time we
come here we're impressed
00:55:54.13\00:55:55.89
with the continuing
commitment to excellence.
00:55:55.92\00:55:59.11
A spiritual excellence.
00:55:59.14\00:56:02.94
The young people come
out with the three hours.
00:56:02.97\00:56:05.50
They know what they're
doing but they also come out
00:56:05.53\00:56:07.84
with a working
relationship with Jesus Christ.
00:56:07.87\00:56:09.71
And I don't suspect
there's any finer compliment
00:56:09.74\00:56:12.36
that could be
given to an institution.
00:56:12.39\00:56:14.52
Then the fact
that when I leave here
00:56:14.55\00:56:17.14
I know what I am going to do.
00:56:17.17\00:56:19.72
But I also have a working
relationship with Jesus Christ
00:56:19.75\00:56:22.23
and I am sure
that's part of your lexicon
00:56:22.26\00:56:24.59
every single day. Every day.
00:56:24.62\00:56:26.57
That's the only way to do it.
00:56:26.60\00:56:28.39
That's the really the
only reason why we are here.
00:56:28.42\00:56:30.42
Yes. That same mother.
00:56:30.45\00:56:32.62
That same
student can probably get
00:56:32.65\00:56:34.86
and that I may even get
in trouble for saying this.
00:56:34.89\00:56:37.58
They may be able to get
just as good an education
00:56:37.61\00:56:40.64
in those three hours
that you mentioned. Yes.
00:56:40.67\00:56:42.72
At the state university
even other private institution.
00:56:42.75\00:56:45.79
But they're not going to get
00:56:45.82\00:56:47.19
the same walk
with Jesus Christ. Yes.
00:56:47.22\00:56:49.55
That's they're going to
get at Oakwood University.
00:56:49.58\00:56:51.96
That's the reason
why we are here. Yeah.
00:56:51.99\00:56:53.77
Last night we
listened to the choir sing.
00:56:53.80\00:56:56.21
They were
fabulous. And you could see.
00:56:56.24\00:56:57.91
Yes. The love of God
on those young faces.
00:56:57.94\00:57:00.10
Yeah. They
weren't faking that thing.
00:57:00.13\00:57:01.64
Right. That was
real in their heart.
00:57:01.67\00:57:03.04
And that was just
one of the many choirs
00:57:03.07\00:57:04.74
that we have here.
Just one--fabulous.
00:57:04.77\00:57:07.15
Well, during our stay
here we're going to here
00:57:07.18\00:57:10.51
and I am glad we get hear
choirs every single night. Yeah.
00:57:10.54\00:57:12.92
And on Sabbath morning
we get to here the Eearlene
00:57:12.95\00:57:15.01
and so you wanna
stay by for Friday
00:57:15.04\00:57:17.72
which is
tomorrow and then Sabbath.
00:57:17.75\00:57:19.39
Two services we got
choirs at each of the service
00:57:19.42\00:57:22.49
and we're just
very, very, excited
00:57:22.52\00:57:23.89
to be on the
campus Oakwood University
00:57:23.92\00:57:26.23
that is all for now.
00:57:26.26\00:57:27.63
Our time is fast
slipped into eternity.
00:57:27.66\00:57:29.05
We'll see you soon on
another Night Light. God bless.
00:57:29.08\00:57:32.48