Participants: Mark Finley, Ted Wilson, Danny Shelton, Jim Gilley, Brad Thorpe
Series Code: NL
Program Code: NL012003
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00:26 Hello, and welcome to a very
00:27 special edition of 3ABN, Night Light. 00:31 My name is C.A. Murray and allow me once again 00:33 to thank you for sharing just a little 00:35 of your no doubt busy day with us. 00:38 You know, there are four times in a Book of Revelation 00:40 where the Bible says, that we need to give ear 00:43 to what the spirit has to say to the churches. 00:45 And this is one of those times when we as a church family 00:48 are gathering together to talk about 00:50 the business of the Lord, to lift up the name of Jesus. 00:53 And to draw ourselves together 00:56 and to listen to our General Conference President 00:58 and to what's happening in our church. 01:00 With me is Mark Finley, who is the assistant to the president. 01:04 And I am gonna ask Mark to just tell us a little bit 01:07 about what we're gonna be doing this night 01:08 to introduce our guest. 01:10 And give us a little of the culture of the evening. 01:12 Shortly, before the ascension of Jesus to heaven, 01:16 Jesus says, to His disciples, 01:20 "Wait for the promise of the Holy Spirit." 01:23 And then He said in Acts 1:8, 01:26 "But you shall receive power 01:28 when the Holy Spirit has come upon you. 01:30 And you shall be witnesses to me in Jerusalem, 01:34 in Judea, in Samaria to the ends of the earth." 01:37 But the disciples weren't ready to receive the Holy Spirit. 01:41 Pride filled their hearts. 01:43 Arrogance gripped their lives. 01:46 They were striving for the supremacy. 01:48 In fact just before the cross, James and John influenced 01:54 their mother to put pressure on Jesus 01:58 and influence Jesus to give then first place 02:01 in the kingdom to sit on thrones 02:03 one in his right and one in his left. 02:04 You remember, Jesus said 02:06 "The Lord of Kingdom will serve to you." 02:07 So the disciples were not ready for Pentecost. 02:10 They were not unified. 02:12 They were not in one accord. 02:14 They prayed, their hearts were broken in unity. 02:17 They came together they repented. 02:20 They confessed their sin 02:22 and the Holy Spirit was poured out. 02:24 Unity is a preeminent value in the heart of Jesus. 02:28 And tonight our topic is the unity 02:32 of the Seventh-day Adventist church. 02:33 The Adventist church faces challenges to its unity. 02:37 And tonight Pastor Ted Wilson, 02:39 our General Conference president 02:41 will share his heart on the subject of unity. 02:46 He will be interviewed by Jim Gilley, 02:50 Danny Shelton of 3ABN and Brad Thorp of the Hope Channel. 02:54 This program will be broadcast internationally. 02:58 Now let's join them on the stage now. 03:03 Come with me as I join Pastor Wilson and the others. 03:05 Well welcome we're right here on the stage at ASI 03:09 at the Duke Energy Centre. 03:11 And this is Night Light 03:13 coming to you from Cincinnati, Ohio. 03:16 And we have a group of very dignified individuals 03:19 here including the General Conference president 03:22 to answer some questions regarding unity of the church. 03:27 And we have been looking forward to this program. 03:31 It's an opportunity for us to speak 03:33 to Seventh-day Adventists all around the world. 03:36 When Ted Wilson became president 03:39 of the General Conference in the year 2010. 03:45 Is that correct? That at Atlanta. 03:47 I met with him shortly 03:50 after and I said when you want to address the church, 03:54 we will be happy to invite the Hope Channel 03:57 to join with us, and Loma Linda, 04:00 any of the other networks that would like to be a part of it. 04:04 And the church can be addressed on issues 04:08 that it might be facing on, or bringing the church 04:10 together in unity. 04:12 And at that time he said to me, I will be taking you up. 04:15 Several times he has spoken to the entire world 04:20 from 3ABN and we have invited him to do so at anytime 04:25 that he would so desire. 04:27 There were have been some questions that have risen 04:28 in the last few weeks and as a result we contacted 04:32 the General Conference and we made the offer 04:35 to them that they could come and address 04:39 some of the questions of unity particularly 04:44 to the entire world church. 04:47 And so we welcome you and we are very happy 04:50 to have you with us. 04:51 And Pastor Finley, we're happy to have you with us as well. 04:55 I think you have introduced the panel 04:57 and let everyone know who we are. 05:00 And so I am just gonna be begin right of with a question. 05:03 We have about 17 million Seventh-day Adventists 05:08 around the world. 05:10 And we have all sorts of cultures and all sorts 05:15 of in 200 countries plus. 05:19 How do you keep that type of a church from fragmenting? 05:25 Well first of all let me just thank 3ABN 05:30 and the team that they have here. 05:32 Let me thank Hope Channel 05:34 and those who are making this very special event possible. 05:40 It's wonderful to be here at the ASI Convention 05:43 here in Cincinnati. 05:45 And a wonderful beginning this evening 05:47 with President Frank Forney and an emphasis 05:52 on our close relationship with the Lord. 05:55 Before I answer that question Jim, 05:58 and I will probably try to work it into a response here. 06:02 I'd like to just make a few introductory remarks 06:07 and then we can probably proceed 06:09 with some of the more specific questions. 06:13 I want to indicate that I am a very good courage tonight. 06:18 Okay. Courage in the Lord. 06:20 Amen. For the Lord is in control 06:23 of His precious advent movement, amen. 06:26 And He will not let anything happen to that precious movement 06:31 as we move towards the very end of time. 06:35 I'm gonna take just a few minutes 06:37 to give you a little overview of some of the things 06:40 that are on my heart in terms of the unity of the church 06:45 and how we relate to that. 06:48 You know, we have been told in the Spirit of Prophecy 06:51 that we need at the end of time to press together, 06:54 press together, press together. 06:57 Apparently the Lord knew that at the end of time 06:59 there would be a lot of dissension 07:01 and frustration and challenges that we would meet. 07:05 I truly believe with all of my heart 07:08 that we are living at the end of time, 07:11 that Jesus is coming soon. 07:15 And as Seventh-day Adventist, we have that wonderful hope 07:18 and that opportunity. 07:20 Even the current settings 07:21 that we see in the political settings around the world. 07:24 Things are so unstable in the economic areas of life. 07:30 We're really on a paper thin edge of economic challenge 07:37 all over the world. 07:39 One particular thing will create a domino effect. 07:42 We're seeing the signs of Christ 07:45 soon coming in the social areas, society. 07:48 The fragmentation of the family, 07:51 the unfortunate disintegration 07:57 of social understanding of how we function as a society. 08:03 Even in the very difficult and unfortunate trend 08:07 toward same sex marriage. 08:10 Homosexuality, the acceptance of that. 08:14 As the scripture point out, we need to love 08:17 the sinner and hate the sin, amen. 08:20 We need to nurture and help people 08:22 to find victory in Christ. 08:25 But as we see things around us beginning to disintegrate 08:30 including areas that we have no control over natural disaster 08:35 that are happening in unprecedented numbers. 08:38 The ecumenical movements 08:40 that are beginning to show 08:42 themselves in a very powerful way. 08:45 We begin to understand that we truly are living 08:48 at the very end of time and God has called the people. 08:51 Revelation 12:17, gives us a very clear picture 08:56 of those who keep the commandments of God 09:00 and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. 09:04 We know, in the next couple of Chapters in Revelation 14, 09:07 it was referenced this evening that verses 6 to 12 help us 09:12 to understand the great Three Angels' Messages 09:15 that God has called us to proclaim. 09:18 Christ is asking for His people to stand together for truth 09:23 at the end of time, to proclaim those incredible messages 09:26 that he has entrusted to His church. Amen. 09:30 John 17, the prayer of Christ that His disciples 09:34 would be one and not only for the disciples 09:37 that were with Him, but for the disciples 09:39 that would come later. 09:41 And here we are-- 09:42 in the Book of Ephesians Chapter 2, 09:45 we read in the 19th verse 09:49 that "We are part of the household of God 09:54 built on the foundation of the apostles and the prophets. 09:57 Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone." 10:01 A couple of chapters later Christ 10:03 talks about unity in the sense that we are all one in terms of 10:10 one body, one spirit, one hope, one Lord, one faith, 10:14 one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all 10:18 and through all and in you all. 10:20 So the Lord expects for us to be unified 10:24 as we come to the very end of time. 10:27 We're in the church trying through God's blessing, 10:32 to focus upon this great message that He has given to us. 10:36 Tell the world 10:38 that's why we have called for revival and reformation. 10:42 It's not something we do, its something 10:44 that the Holy Spirit does in us. 10:48 We have called for mission to the cities. 10:52 We have called for distribution of that wonderful book, 10:56 the Great Controversy in its various versions. 10:59 I don't care what version 11:00 you use--use one of those to reach somebody's heart. 11:05 We have called for revived by His word 11:08 to read the scriptures together, to understand 11:11 what God has in store for us. 11:14 We're calling for a revitalized emphasis on medical missionary 11:18 work helping people to understand they need to meet 11:21 the needs of people around them. 11:24 All of this requires unity. 11:27 It requires a sense 11:30 that we as Seventh-day Adventist must come together 11:32 under the leading of the Holy Spirit. 11:35 I want to tell you that devil is not happy. 11:39 He wants to do everything possible to bring 11:41 about division, dissension, distraction 11:45 whatever it might be. 11:49 We do have currently an item 11:54 which is causing considerable discussion. 11:59 The ordination of individuals without regard to gender. 12:04 I am not going to speak about women's ordination 12:08 or about that particular subject, tonight. 12:12 I want to talk in focus on unity. 12:15 On what it is that God as He expects as a church 12:19 that we should do in order to create 12:23 a better understanding of that particular unity 12:27 that is so, so important. 12:30 I think also it's important that we understand 12:33 that organizations from churches to individuals-- 12:40 of course, all the way through entire system of our church, 12:44 Conferences, Unions, Divisions, General Conference, 12:47 that all of us need to show respect to each other. 12:51 But we also need to have a wonderful spirit 12:55 of love and care. 12:58 But also we need to work together in humility 13:02 and submission, submission to each other 13:05 and to the Lord Himself. 13:08 I think we need to be very careful 13:10 about making references that will bring 13:14 some kind of depreciating value on entities 13:19 of the church-- the General Conference itself. 13:23 Some people don't even relate to the General Conference, 13:26 because they know their church pastor. 13:28 They know may be their conference president, 13:31 but the General Conference is something way out 13:33 there and really doesn't have any relevance. 13:37 In a sense we all are part of that great body 13:40 and we need to show respect one to another. Right. 13:44 So that when we show some disrespect as to the process 13:47 that the church uses to find its way through problems, 13:53 if we show some kind of unfortunate dividing remarks 13:59 that would indicate that perhaps the General Conference 14:02 or other units may not really have a voice in something, 14:09 then I think a lack of respect for each of us is seen. 14:16 And we need to be united 14:17 as we move into the future in a very, very specific way. 14:22 Now in terms of how we have tried to deal 14:25 with some of the--some of the challenges of unity 14:29 in the most recent past, the General Conference officers 14:33 and division presidents have made 14:36 very special spiritual appeal. 14:40 We also recently have issued documents 14:44 just yesterday, and even tomorrow a document 14:48 will be presented to help clarify some of the discussion 14:52 that is taking place with information that is not accurate 14:57 and perhaps not understood in the proper way. 15:02 So we would hope that people will very much 15:05 look to some of those documents and some of those 15:09 statements that are done in love. 15:12 That are done with a real caring attitude 15:15 to help people to truly understand 15:18 how the church ought to move ahead. 15:20 I would like to just make a quote a little statement 15:24 from Testimonies volume 9, its page 260 and 261. 15:32 It has to do with the structure of the church 15:36 and the General Conference. 15:38 And it says when in a General Conference the judgment 15:41 of the brethren assembled from all parts of the field 15:44 is exercised private independence 15:47 and private judgment must not be stubbornly 15:50 maintained, but surrendered. 15:52 Now let me just interject that's not easy to do. 15:55 Personally or corporately it's only through the power 15:59 the Holy Spirit, but continuing, 16:01 never should a laborer regard as a virtue of the persistent 16:05 maintenance of his position of independence contrary 16:09 to the decision of the general body. 16:11 God has ordained that the representatives 16:13 of his church from all parts of the earth 16:17 when assembled in a General Conference 16:19 shall have authority. 16:22 Now, I think we have to understand 16:24 and what we mean by that. 16:25 We are not talking about some kind of kingly power 16:28 or some lording at over people. 16:31 We are talking about a system that works 16:34 in submission to the Holy Spirit to help a group 16:38 of people come together to understand 16:41 what is best for the whole. 16:42 How did the church in the early days 16:46 in the early apostolic days deal with that. 16:49 How did the church 16:50 as the Seventh-day Adventist Church 16:52 as it was forming deal with differences. 16:55 They came together in Sabbath conferences. 16:58 They came together in prayer, they came together 17:01 in submission to each other and the holy word. 17:06 And the Holy Spirit helped them to come together as a body. 17:11 And I just want to earnestly appeal to everyone, 17:15 every administrative unit throughout the world 17:18 and those that will be having administrative events 17:22 coming up that they humble themselves 17:25 and I say it to myself as well. 17:27 To humble ourselves before the Lord, 17:30 so that we can truly find the way that God 17:34 would have us go, not just the way 17:37 an individual or a group would like to go. 17:41 As we submit to the Lord, the Lord will help us 17:44 to fulfill that beautiful prayer that he had in John 17. 17:49 It will help us to understand 17:51 that we are part of the household of God 17:54 as he indicates through Paul in Ephesians 2 17:57 that we do have one Lord and one faith, one baptism, 18:01 one God, one Father who is over all of us. 18:05 And I just want to appeal in a very special ways. 18:08 We move into these questions that we will understand 18:12 the need for humbling ourselves before each other 18:17 and working together as a unit not having 18:21 one unit go ahead of another, but that we all work together. 18:26 How do you keep a church together of 17 million? 18:30 We have many ways in which things can help to do that. 18:36 We have first of all and foremost Christ 18:40 and the wonderful belief we have in Him and His righteousness. 18:44 We have our beautiful doctrines 18:46 which we take from scripture, 28 fundamental beliefs. 18:50 We have a worldwide administrative system. 18:55 We have working policies. 18:57 You know policies that sound so dry and bureaucratic, 19:00 but really what they are, are Christian agreements 19:04 that we abide by collectively in order to provide 19:11 for a strong push for the mission of the church. 19:16 And as those policies are understood 19:19 in a very positive way, then of course we can see progress. 19:25 When we don't see a unanimity and unity 19:30 in what we are doing, then we see a fractious 19:34 and divisive spirit, but I just want to appeal to us 19:38 as we move ahead that as we see the ways 19:43 in which the church stays together 19:45 through worldwide Sabbath school lessons, 19:49 through working policies, through doctrines 19:53 that we will also recognize. 19:55 And I have told my wife Nancy this. 19:57 I don't really worry too much about the unity of the church, 20:02 because it is the Holy Spirit 20:05 that keeps the church together, amen. 20:07 And I believe that the Holy Spirit 20:08 will do that as we move into the future even though 20:11 we are facing some challenges 20:13 I believe that the Holy Spirit 20:14 will come upon people from different languages 20:18 different cultures, different nations and that truly 20:23 we will be united as we submit to each other 20:27 and to the power of the Holy Spirit. Amen. 20:31 Pastor Wilson through the years, through the centuries, 20:34 the church has faced many attacks 20:36 where there has been potential for disunity. 20:40 but is there a biblical model 20:43 that we should be following as a world church? 20:47 Is there a way in which these potential reasons 20:51 for disagreement can be resolved in a Christ like way? 20:56 Well it definitely has to do with an ability to come together 21:00 as a body in submission and then to discuss these things 21:06 prayerfully to be in our needs to look to scripture. 21:10 You know, more and more in society we are seeing a tendency 21:15 for people to express opinions based upon their own feelings 21:21 rather than upon truth. 21:23 And that's why Bible truth is so important to a denomination 21:27 like the Seventh-day Adventist church and I think as we look 21:31 at how the early church in Acts Chapter 15 21:36 dealt with some very difficult challenges. 21:39 We can see that they did not spin off 21:42 into different directions, but they came together 21:45 in an assembled way and the Holy Spirit 21:48 helped them as they counseled and prayed together. 21:52 I think that's probably one of the most important ways 21:56 that we can draw from scripture 21:58 to understand the good patron. 22:00 Mark may be you have something you wanna add on that. 22:02 Let's unpack Acts 15 just for a moment. 22:05 The historical background is there was a conflict 22:08 between Jews and Gentiles and as the Apostle Paul 22:12 preached in Antioch there were scores of Gentile Christians 22:16 coming into the Christian--scores of gentiles 22:18 coming into the Christian church. 22:20 The Jewish believers who were Christians wanted the Gentiles 22:25 to be circumcised and in addition 22:26 to that they wanted them to keep the fees such as pass over. 22:30 That conflict grew so large in the church at Antioch 22:35 that the churches wondered what we gonna do about this. 22:38 They decided to send 22:40 the Apostle Paul and representatives 22:43 from the church there to Jerusalem, 22:45 to counsel with the leading brethren 22:48 at Jerusalem, so they came. 22:49 They went to Jerusalem 22:50 and that counsel meeting took place, James presided. 22:54 There were really vigorous discussions. 22:57 There were disagreements, 22:59 you can read about in Acts Chapter 15. 23:00 So disagreements discussions differences of opinion 23:04 are not fatal to a church. 23:06 In fact they are healthy. 23:07 And so there were these differences of opinion, 23:10 but as the brethren in Jerusalem worked through the problem, 23:14 they came to a common agreement. 23:17 And that agreement of course was that the Gentile Christians 23:20 needed to de-circumcise, 23:22 that all they need to do was refrain from 23:25 worshipping idols and refrain from blood 23:29 and things strangled etc. 23:32 After the Jerusalem counsel a letter was written 23:35 it was taken by the apostles out 23:37 through the rest of the churches. 23:39 And it was mutually agreed upon the church 23:42 came together in unity and focused on its mission. 23:45 Now how is this instructive for us today? 23:47 There can be vigorous debate. 23:49 There can be respect between one and other 23:51 differences of the opinion can be shared. 23:55 but unity comes as the church together in counsel 24:00 mutually agrees and as that mutual agreement takes place 24:07 we put aside individual differences for what's best 24:11 for the church and to facilitate the mission of the church. 24:14 Think what would have happened if the churches and Antioch 24:18 would have voted one thing, the churches in Syria 24:21 would have voted another thing, the churches in Judea 24:23 would have voted another thing. 24:25 There would have been such chaos and fragmentation. 24:27 So Acts 15, I think is an instructive model that enables 24:31 the church to move together in unity 24:34 and there may be differences of opinion, 24:36 but there is a unified sense of mission and purpose. 24:41 Then Elder Wilson is there a difference 24:43 in uniformity and unity? 24:47 So what is the difference? 24:49 Well that's a good question Danny, 24:51 and unity is, of course, 24:56 a much broader term term that we want to use. 25:03 We do not have to do everything in lockstep. 25:07 When it comes to particular areas that may differ, 25:13 in certain particular situations or in settings, 25:18 but on areas that are very pronounced, areas 25:23 areas, that the world church has agreed on, 25:27 areas that church has voted actions on. 25:32 We want to be extremely careful 25:34 that we do not see entities go of in directions 25:40 that are not unifying, but rather divisive. 25:45 So I think uniformity is something which just sounds 25:49 like everybody has to be, you know, a wooden soldier 25:53 that's marching along in the same beat. 25:56 But unity helps us to understand that definitely 26:01 the aspect of brining us together with major doctrinal 26:07 and biblical themes and with an understanding 26:11 that whatever I do may affect another part 26:15 of the body that is really what unity is all about. 26:20 You know I love that. 26:21 I love that definition of unity. 26:23 You know, when you look at uniformity and unity. 26:25 Uniformity the word is uniform. 26:27 And my kids went to school in England 26:30 for a while and they wore uniforms, 26:32 and they mighthave had external uniformity, 26:35 but they didn't have internal unity. 26:38 You know, uniformity can be external. 26:40 Unity has to do with the heart. 26:41 Unity has to do with oneness of mind, 26:43 oneness of spirit, we're committed 26:45 to the same mission, that's unity. 26:47 We're committed to the same master Christ, that's unity. 26:49 We're committed to the same message, that's unity. 26:51 We may do things differently. 26:53 We may look things differently, look at things differently, 26:57 but we're committed to that common mission, 26:59 that common message, that common church organization. 27:02 And I think unity is a matter of the heart the soul, 27:05 where you are committed 27:06 to one and other with mutual, love, trust and respect. 27:10 You know, we talk about unity and our church is unique 27:15 in as much as we may be the only 27:18 worldwide protestant group. 27:21 There are many groups there at worldwide, 27:23 but they have national churches 27:26 rather than worldwide church. 27:28 And so what role you mention policy a minute ago. 27:33 What role is policy really play in keeping this unity 27:38 with the worldwide church? 27:41 Well even though it may sound very dry 27:43 and kind of, you know, something that only 27:50 individuals who have no interest 27:52 in anything elsewould want to worry about. 27:54 Really policy is as I said they are, they are Christian 27:58 agreements that we make in order 28:00 to further the mission of the church. 28:02 And we need to understand that policies are voted 28:07 not by some obscure strange group at the General Conference 28:12 that has no relevance to the world field. 28:15 But it--they're voted by the executive committee 28:19 of the General Conference and who makes up that group. 28:23 We have about one-third of that group, it's about 330 people. 28:28 About one-third of that group is made up 28:32 of presidents of unions around the world. 28:36 We have division officers. 28:38 We have General Conference officers. 28:40 We have frontline workers. 28:42 We have pastors. 28:44 We have numerous laypeople 28:47 on the General Conference committee. 28:49 It is made up of representatives from allover the world. 28:53 It is a very representative body. 28:57 And they create policies for the good of the church 29:02 and the policies, in the policies it is indicated 29:07 that all the entities that are part 29:09 of the Seventh-day Adventist church 29:11 will abide by those policies and that will understand 29:15 that we are working together as a unit. 29:18 So the working policies even though they sound very dry 29:22 and bureaucratic are really wonderful instruments 29:27 that help to further the mission of the church 29:30 and keep us from being fragmented 29:32 and just doing our own thing. 29:34 So Elder Wilson, I think it would be very helpful to expand 29:38 in a little bit even may be more detail 29:40 and how we actually develop, or how the world church 29:42 develops these policies. 29:45 When are these occasions? 29:47 Who were the people who draft these proposed' policies? 29:50 How were they reviewed? 29:52 Where does the big dimension of the General Conference 29:57 which happens every five years and the annual councils 29:59 which happen annually in October? 30:01 What roles do each of these bodies play? 30:05 All right very quickly the Annual Council meets, 30:09 of course, annually, once a year. 30:11 And we also have a spring meeting not as many people 30:14 come to that particular meeting of the executive committee, 30:17 but at the Annual Council all members 30:20 are requested to be present. 30:22 So that's about 330 people 30:24 representing as I said the entire world church. 30:27 It is only at that particular meeting 30:31 when all groups are represented 30:34 that policy can be voted. 30:37 Policy can come from various parts of the world 30:41 and is fed through a system 30:43 usually through the secretariat area. 30:46 And is then processed through a policy 30:51 review and development committee at the General Conference 30:54 and then is brought through 30:57 the various aspects of administration. 31:00 The presidents, secretaries, treasurers, councils, 31:04 then to the General Conference officers, 31:06 and finally then to the Annual Council. 31:08 So it goes through some pretty careful steps 31:12 and usually those policies are very well written 31:16 and well intentioned and that's why those policies 31:21 certainly help to keep us together 31:23 and also focused on the mission of the church. 31:27 You know, I wanted to make another 31:28 comment on policy, Pastor Wilson. 31:31 When you think about policy 31:33 it can seem so cold and dry, 31:35 but if you look at it from another prospective. 31:38 First, at the General Conference 31:40 and we sit down to take a look at policies, 31:42 we are asking our self the two questions. 31:45 What biblical principles impact this policy? 31:49 If we're discussing tithe for example 31:51 and we just had a study commission 31:52 on the subject of tithe. 31:54 The Bible teaches clearly the tithing principle, 31:58 but there is nothing in the Bible about percentages 32:00 of tithe when it comes to what percentage is allocated 32:03 to a local conference union or division, that's a matter 32:06 of General Conference, that's a matter of policy. 32:09 So we sit down together 32:10 and say what biblical principles impact this policy. 32:15 What biblical principles under grade the policy. 32:17 So that's one aspect 32:19 in the discussions that take place over policy. 32:22 There is often prayer. 32:23 There is often opening the word of God to seek 32:26 what council we can find from it. 32:28 Or what council does the writing of Ellen White, 32:30 'The Spirit of Prophecy' have in policy. 32:32 The second point of policy is this, policy is not mission, 32:38 but policy facilitates mission and policy drives your mission. 32:42 So everything that we're doing 32:44 we are asking ourselves this question. 32:46 How can this policy that we have wrote further impact 32:49 the mission of the church, so more people 32:52 can be won for Christ, so soon we can go home. 32:55 That's right. Amen. And Elder Wilson 32:57 what are the dangers to the church 33:00 if a local conference or union acts 33:03 independently of the church body. 33:05 I mean I'm sure there is some ramifications. 33:09 Definitely, there are. 33:10 It first of all damages the body itself, 33:16 because it brings discord and disagreement. 33:19 Now that isn't to say that there isn't disagreement 33:22 before and action might be taken like that. 33:26 But how do you approach tension in your life 33:32 where your moral conviction 33:36 is perhaps some thing different from what church 33:39 policy may be, or what another organization may be doing. 33:44 Those kinds of things have to be 33:47 looked at in a very spiritual way 33:49 and you need to take them to the Lord. 33:51 If an organization would branch out 33:54 on its own and not take into consideration the larger body 34:00 then you're setting up a situation 34:02 where there is going to be continued disruption 34:06 to the harmony and to the unity for the mission. 34:10 And there are policies that deal with that as well. 34:17 But we need to care for that with a sense of love 34:21 and try to be redemptive and help people to understand. 34:25 It's far better to do something together 34:28 and to discuss things, be able to come up 34:31 with a conclusion even if that conclusion may not agree 34:36 with your own personal conviction. 34:40 One of the reasons why unfortunately 34:42 there are splinter groups, there are groups 34:46 that simply leave the body 34:49 whether it be the Seventh-day Adventist church 34:51 or some other group is that they come to the point 34:53 where they cannot accept this tension. 34:56 But in reality, we are told that this church 34:59 will go to the end of time. 35:00 And that this is God's precious, the apple of His eye. 35:05 That it is His precious advent movement. 35:07 So the Lord is the great factor through the Holy Spirit 35:12 that will truly help us to find the unity 35:14 and bring those units back in. Amen. 35:18 Elder Wilson the question of women's ordination 35:22 has come at the forefront here in recent weeks and months, 35:27 probably even in recent years. 35:30 What is the church's position on the ordination of women? 35:36 Well the--and we're really 35:38 not going to get into a discussion of that subject, 35:40 but I will answer that question to give a factual answer 35:46 and then also what the church is doing. 35:50 The church has looked 35:53 at that and at two General Conference sessions 35:57 which we are told by the 'Spirit of Prophecy' 36:00 are the highest voices of authority. 36:05 The General Conference in session 36:08 has voted to not allow organizations to either proceed 36:13 on their own if they would like to or to proceed 36:18 in the direction of ordaining women to the gospel ministry. 36:22 This is no way would imply that women 36:26 cannot be vitally involved in the outreach 36:30 and evangelistic activities of the church. 36:35 The question continues to arise 36:40 and the General Conference has agreed to a process 36:43 which was recently accepted and implemented 36:48 where we will have a theology 36:51 of ordination study committee. 36:54 And that committee will involve every one of the 13 divisions. 36:58 It will be well represented. 37:01 It is already in progress in terms of efforts 37:05 to obtain information from those particular divisions. 37:09 The committee will render its report in 2014. 37:14 It will definitely be looking at the very specific point 37:19 of ordaining women to the gospel ministry. 37:23 That subject will be part of the greater discussion 37:26 of what is the theology of ordination. 37:29 Then at that time any agreed upon items 37:33 which should be placed on an agenda 37:36 for the 2015 General Conference session 37:39 will be done by the Annual Council. 37:41 So there is a process in place, there is an opportunity 37:46 for people to truly in a very concerted and unified way 37:52 to study scripture together, pray together, 37:55 and listen to each other. 37:57 Elder Wilson, obviously some policies 38:00 are more important than others. 38:03 The policy on travel for instance 38:07 might not be as important as some other policy. 38:10 What is it that is so vitally important 38:13 about the issue of ordination that makes it a something 38:17 that necessitates the world body 38:20 in the General Conference session to address? 38:23 Is it more important than other things? 38:25 Well there are many important things, 38:27 of course, in the whole life of the church, 38:29 but that is of course an important one. 38:31 And it is important to remember that those who are ordained 38:37 to the gospel ministry are ordained 38:39 for a whole world church ordination. 38:44 In other words you don't have to be ordained 38:48 again if you go to another division. 38:50 It is accepted when someone travels 38:52 from one place to the other. 38:54 They are accepted as an ordained minister 38:58 to the gospel ministry. 39:00 And that is one of the very key points 39:03 that this is not just a regional 39:06 or a specific situation, this is something 39:10 which the entire world church participates in. 39:14 Ordained ministers are vital to the ongoing 39:18 spiritual nurturing for local churches 39:21 and most importantly for actively training church 39:25 members to do evangelistic work and to reach out 39:29 to the world with a mission and proclamation 39:32 of the Three Angels' Messages. 39:34 What really springs from our understanding 39:36 that there is a world church, a world movement, 39:39 and when a person is ordained 39:40 they are part and representative of that, so it very closely 39:44 is connected with our understanding of end time events 39:47 and the nature of the church. Precisely. 39:49 Well you know lets look at it from another perspective. 39:52 What if individual regions determined 39:58 the criteria for ordination? 40:01 What would take place if that happened? 40:03 You would have different criteria for ordination 40:07 in one area than you would in another area, 40:09 and other area, and other area. 40:11 And there may be different criteria based 40:15 on a variety of factors. 40:18 And so you would have really a much more fragmented 40:22 than unified Adventist ministry. 40:24 You know, as we travel around the world 40:26 from the General Conference one thing 40:27 that is deeply impressive is the fact 40:29 that in spite of our differences 40:31 when you travel around the world, 40:33 there is this marvelous sense of unity, 40:35 the sense that we're one family. Amen. 40:37 And I think there's a couple of things 40:39 that do that you know, another aspect of this question 40:42 is I would like in it to baptism. 40:44 A local congregation determines 40:48 who is going to be baptized, 40:50 but they don't determine the 28 fundamental beliefs. 40:53 Correct, correct. That's the role of the General Conference. 40:56 What if we said every local church will determine 40:59 the standards for baptism, what would happen? 41:02 We would have a fragmented membership, wouldn't we? 41:05 And so similarly to ordination, so the local union 41:11 approves a request from the conference ordination, 41:15 but the General Conference sets the criteria for ordination. 41:19 Similarly a local church approves candidates for baptism, 41:23 but the body at large General Conference working together 41:28 with its unions sets the criteria for baptism. 41:31 In that way you have a much more 41:34 unified membership and a unified ministry. 41:37 And I think this idea 41:38 that we are one family unified together. 41:42 Whatever one thinks about the subject 41:46 of that we are discussing of ordination without respect 41:50 to gender whichever side you are on and frankly 41:53 there are honest hearted wonderful people 41:56 who love Jesus on both sides of question. 41:59 But whatever side you are on, on that, mutual trust 42:04 and respect in moving together 42:07 will keep this church from fragmentation, amen. 42:10 And Elder Wilson, we have probably 42:12 about 12 or 13 minutes left, and I wonder 42:15 if we could in kind of the looking at the closing 42:17 of this discussion may be you could give some direction to us. 42:22 May be make an appeal to church leaders 42:25 to church members about unity 42:28 and may be give us some direction 42:29 and you have given us some hope 42:31 and I love how positive you are. 42:34 And Mark, you too, because whatever we talk about 42:38 and I have talked in behind they're very positive 42:40 that the Lord is in charge of this church. 42:43 The ship is gonna go through. Amen. 42:45 And it's a matter of us all catching the vision. 42:48 I'd like to join hands together and I wanna say publicly 42:50 thank you for allowing 3ABN to work together 42:54 with you and Hope Channel all of us together the very fact 42:57 that we are sitting here and I think is showing 43:02 that we believe in unity as a church 43:04 and so may be Mark and Brad and Jim 43:08 in our closing time and Elder Wilson 43:10 make an appeal to us. 43:12 What do we do? How do we get, 43:14 how do we see Jesus comeback? 43:17 Well I wanna see Him come soon. 43:20 And I know millions of Christians 43:24 wanna see that happen. 43:26 And Seventh-day Adventist 43:27 it's in our name that Jesus is coming. 43:31 I think in terms of helping us understand 43:37 as we face some of these challenges, 43:39 we need to keep in mind the vision 43:43 of who we are as a people. 43:45 That God has called us to be His remnant church. 43:49 He has called us to be faithful to the word of God. 43:53 He has called us to proclaim 43:55 those Three Angels' Messages of Revelation 14. 43:58 He has called us to be united in Him. 44:02 First John, tells us that people will know us by our love. 44:07 It helps us to understand 44:09 that Christ's wonderful prayer in John 17 44:14 is to be key to how we approach challenges 44:18 and problems that we are facing even today. 44:21 And my appeal to the church 44:23 would be to keep that vision in mind. 44:26 Keep the understanding in mind that we must look beyond 44:30 just the challenges of an immediate crisis, 44:35 or an immediate situation that seems to bring in discord. 44:39 That we have to look to what God 44:42 has called us to revival and reformation to sharing 44:46 this precious message in the great cities 44:49 and in the countryside, all around the world, 44:53 that God has called us to employ 44:55 every means possible through communication. 44:58 And I do wanna thank 3ABN and Hope Channel 45:01 for this opportunity to use media, to use outreach, 45:05 to use medical missionary work, to use community service, 45:09 to use every aspect that we possibly can, 45:12 personal evangelism, public evangelism. 45:15 Everything possible men, women children all working together 45:19 that vision is of absolute importance. 45:24 And as we heard even tonight, Frank Forney was emphasizing 45:28 the sanctuary message a beautiful understanding 45:31 of who we are as a people and where we are going. 45:35 The understanding of Christ's righteousness and of course 45:39 His soon second coming. 45:41 We need to be united in Him in order to accomplish this. 45:46 How do we face differences? 45:49 How do we face those challenges on our knees and together. 45:55 Not going our own way, but working 45:58 together in a very dynamic manner. 46:02 I do wanna share just one very positive aspect 46:08 that reflects what happened in the Acts 15 model. 46:14 It's from the Acts of the Apostles 46:16 and I will do this quickly 46:18 and there may be some closing remarks 46:19 that others would like to make. 46:22 But it says here in page 95 and 96 of Acts of the Apostles, 46:27 a marvelous book. 46:29 And this quotation was actually shared 46:32 with me by my brother-in-law very recently Dr. Jim Wilmer. 46:36 And he is a real student now of reading scripture 46:40 and 'the Spirit of Prophecy.' 46:42 The order that was maintained in the early Christian church 46:45 made it possible for them to move forwards solidly 46:49 as a well disciplined army clad with the armor of God. 46:53 The companies of believers those scattered over 46:56 a large territory who are all members of one body 46:59 all moved in concert and in harmony with one another. 47:03 When dissension arose in a local church as later 47:06 it did arise in Antioch and else where. 47:10 And the believers were unable to come to an agreement 47:13 among themselves such matters were not permitted 47:16 to create a division in the church, 47:18 but were referred to a general council 47:21 of the entire body of believers. 47:23 Made up of appointed delegates from the various local churches 47:27 with the apostles and elders 47:29 and positions of leading responsibility. 47:32 Thus the efforts of Satan to attack 47:36 the church in isolated places 47:38 were met by concerted actionon the part of all. 47:42 And the plans of the enemy to disrupt 47:45 and destroy were thwarted. 47:47 Now a quotation comes from First Corinthians 14:33, 47:50 "God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, 47:54 as in all churches of the saints." 47:57 It goes on to say here, "He requires that order and system 48:00 be observed in the conduct of church affairs today, 48:04 no less than in the days of old." 48:06 So this is news for the day. 48:09 He desires His work to be carried forward 48:12 with thoroughness and exactness, 48:14 so that He may place upon it the seal of His approval. 48:19 Christian is to be united with Christian, church with church, 48:23 the human instrumentality cooperating with the divine. 48:26 Every agency subordinate to the Holy Spirit 48:29 and all combined in giving to the world 48:33 the good tidings of the grace of God. 48:36 What an appropriate quotation for the day. 48:39 And my appeal to the church would be to focus upon Christ 48:44 and the mission He has entrusted to us. 48:46 Let us submit ourselves completely to the Lord 48:50 and allow Him to help us to work things out 48:53 according to the biblical model. 48:57 You know I love Micah 6:8, it says here, 49:01 "He has shown you, O man, what is good, 49:04 And what does the Lord require of you, but to do justly, 49:09 to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?" 49:13 I think the attitude of leadership 49:16 of saying the greatest passion of our life is to know Jesus. 49:21 And the greatest passion of our life 49:23 is to share Jesus and having a mutual trust 49:27 of one and another. 49:29 The church will have disagreements, 49:31 the church will have differences. 49:33 But if we trust one another, if we sit at the same table, 49:37 if we work together to solve them, God's spirit 49:40 will be poured out upon this church in a marvelous measure. 49:45 It's a matter of trust, we're in the ASI Convention. 49:48 Here General Conference leadership trusting laypeople, 49:53 trusting lay ministries. 49:55 Lay ministries, laypeople trusting 49:58 General Conference leadership. 50:00 Local churches trusting their conference leadership. 50:03 Conference leadership trusting unions. 50:05 Unions trusting their divisions in the General Conference. 50:08 It seems to me that if we can 50:11 sweep aside our own egos, 50:17 our own desire for supremacy, our own pushing 50:22 our own agendas and come before God humbly with broken hearts 50:29 praying together seeking God's will together, 50:34 longing for God's spirit together, 50:36 because there is one thing that's more important than me-- 50:39 a lot of things are more important 50:41 than me and that is the outpouring of Jesus' Spirit. 50:45 Amen. Upon His church, so the work of God 50:47 can be finished, so Jesus can come. Amen. 50:53 I am reminded of as I've reflected 50:55 on this theme of unity of Romans Chapter 14 and 15. 51:00 Now, from an evangelist's standpoint this is a passage 51:04 that deals a lot with different meats 51:06 and what should be eaten etcetera and Paul 51:09 talks about the poor and the strong, 51:12 but he culminates the discussion 51:15 in Chapter 15 verse 1 through 3 when he said, 51:19 "Then we who are strong ought to bear 51:21 with the scruples of the weak, and not to please ourselves. 51:25 Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, 51:28 leading to edification." 51:30 And then the supreme example is given, 51:32 "For even Christ did not please Himself, but as it is written, 51:37 the reproaches of those who reproached You fell on Me." 51:40 And when we look at what Jesus 51:43 did for our salvation dying on the cross, coming from heaven. 51:48 All of that was for bringing God's people together in unity 51:54 and we need to have that same spirit of sacrifices 51:57 that Jesus had in being willing to serve and in anyway needed. 52:04 You know, when we had the General Conference in 2010. 52:10 You call upon us for revival in reformation. 52:15 At the General Conference office, 52:17 we began to see people gathered together in prayer groups. 52:21 Then we began to see it spread out around the world. 52:24 And now our membership and we announce everyday on 3ABN 52:28 that text for the day and calling for people 52:32 to pray at seven and seven. 52:34 Unity is taking place around the world. 52:39 And it's a unity of the proclamation of the gospel, 52:42 because nothing pull us together like mission pull us together, 52:47 and also the revival and reformation, 52:50 but it is also stirred up the devil, 52:53 because he has seen that something is happening 52:57 and as a result he is doing everything he can to stop 53:01 that revival and that reformation. 53:04 We should actually be praising God that he is upset, 53:09 because it seemed to me like for a long time 53:11 he wasn't upset with us all, and we need to know 53:16 that the devil wants to bring about disunity. 53:19 When you think about 28 years ago 53:22 there was not one Adventist television station 53:25 on planet earth and today 53:27 not only there are numerous television station Brad, 53:29 but a worldwide audience Amen. 53:31 Of literally thousands and thousands, 53:33 you are building media centers allover the world. 53:35 We have dish network and direct television 53:39 reaching millions of people and God 53:41 has given us an opportunity to stand before the world 53:44 and give a unified message. 53:46 If we ever needed to do it today 53:48 is the time we need to do it. 53:50 And in this context we need to be very careful 53:53 that we don't characterize 53:55 those who disagree with us. Amen. 53:57 As being the enemy. No. 54:01 Disagreements have led to deeper Bible study 54:05 to a closer relationship with Jesus Christ. Amen. 54:08 And I think that questions that might be in the church 54:12 now are part of God's process 54:15 to lead us to be revived by the work 54:19 and ultimately it's not church bodies, 54:22 but we as individuals who need to come to the board of God 54:26 and submit just as Jesus submitted 54:29 to the mission of saving people. 54:32 Amen. Elder Wilson would you lead us in a prayer of unity 54:36 as we close our program tonight. 54:38 It will be a great privilege. 54:41 Our loving Father, we come to you in great humility 54:45 recognizing that we owe everything 54:49 to you that we are part of your body, 54:54 because of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ 54:58 and that together we can claim to be airs of the kingdom, 55:02 because of what Jesus did on the cross for us. 55:05 What He is doing in the most holy place 55:09 of the heavenly sanctuary right now. 55:12 We are so grateful Lord 55:13 that through the righteousness of Christ, 55:17 He is justifying and His sanctifying power 55:20 that we can be part of this great advent movement 55:23 that is proclaiming the Three Angels' Messages 55:27 and warning people and encouraging people 55:30 about Christ's very soon coming. 55:34 Now, Lord as we think about dissension and division 55:39 that may come in, because of disagreement. 55:42 We ask that you will help us 55:44 to be charitable one to another, that You will help us 55:48 to be loving and kind, that You will help us understand 55:52 that we need to work together and not in a unilateral way. 55:57 Lord we just place ourselves completely at your disposal now. 56:02 We ask that you will bring that unity 56:04 that you prayed about in John 17 into the church today, 56:09 in our own lives personally. 56:11 So that truly we can all be one people with one Lord 56:16 and one faith and one baptism, one body. 56:20 Lord this can happen through you. 56:22 Help us to fulfill your earnest desire 56:27 that we press together, press together, press together. 56:32 Thank you for hearing us and thank you for the promise 56:34 of Your soon coming and the opportunity to work for you. 56:38 In Jesus name we ask it, amen. 56:42 Elder Wilson, thank you so much for agreeing 56:45 to have this meeting and for it to be televised. 56:49 And I'd like to thank you 56:50 Brad Thorp for being with us tonight 56:52 and Mark Finley, we are so happy you could be with us. 56:55 And Danny Shelton, it's always good to be with you 56:58 and to work with you. 57:00 We appreciate so much that you're standing 57:04 with 3ABN in our ministry and we pray 57:07 that you will continue to pray for as far as we reach out 57:12 with this gospel to go around the world. 57:14 And we appreciate your joining us tonight 57:17 for this very special Night Light 57:19 which has come to you come to you from Cincinnati, Ohio. 57:24 If you live close by come on by 57:27 and enjoy the weekend, God bless you. |
Revised 2013-06-17