Welcome to
Multitude of Counselors.
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We're so thankful
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that you've come
to our program today.
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We're going to be
talking about tyranny,
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dictatorship, and mental health.
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And our guest
today is Jaime Jorge.
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Jaime experienced what
very few of us experience
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and that is living under
a political dictatorship.
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At the tender age
of nine years old,
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he was offered
by the government,
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by the communist government
a scholarship to go to Moscow
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to study music.
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And he was told he would
be given that scholarship
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on one condition
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that he would
renounce his faith in God.
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And at nine years
old, Jaime said, "No."
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I was thinking about
the subject matter of today.
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And I found a
wonderful paper online
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called Tyranny and Mental Health
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by Riadh Abed.
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And I want to quote him,
because he says this so well,
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I'm going to read
for a little bit here.
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He says, so we can get kind
of an idea of what it's like,
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psychologically to
be under a dictatorship.
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Quote, "It is under
totalitarian regimes,
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that the removal of the
last vestiges of protection
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for the individual
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against the might of
the state takes place.
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Society is re-engineered
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under the guiding
principles of the state ideology
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which can be
communism, nationalism,
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fundamentalism, etc."
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It's not about the philosophy,
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the ideology,
it's about the control.
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In a process that frequently
leads to intense suffering,
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mass murder,
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and a variety of mass
human rights violations.
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The totalitarian regime relies
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on the loneliness
of the individual.
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And I just, I found that
so fascinating that it relies
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on the
loneliness of the individual
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and then he unpacks, he says,
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"A reality that
it actively promotes
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through its policy of
atomization of society
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into isolated
ineffectual individuals,
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its imposition
of a state ideology
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and its
systematic use of terror.
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Citizens are
systematically deprived
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of autonomous decision-making
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and action in
whole areas of life.
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This can result
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in an impaired sense
of personal responsibility
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and a tendency to
blame outside agencies
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for all negative events."
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In other words, it
affects people's consciences,
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their ability to take
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moral
responsibility for themselves.
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"Terror is used as a
routine instrument of governance
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and not simply as a
deterrent or punishment
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to the opponents of the regime.
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The strategies implemented
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are those
familiar to all tyrannies
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and include
abduction, disappearance,
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confiscation of
property, deportation, torture,
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extra-judicial killings
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and a variety of
collective punishments.
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However, the totalitarian state
demonstrates a unique ability
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to carry out such
violations on a scale
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previously unimaginable.
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Thus the victims
of Nazi Holocaust,
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Stalin purges, the
Cambodian killing fields
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involved millions of victims
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who were not guilty of
any conventional crime."
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And the author goes on to state
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that these regimes
caused the destruction of trust.
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Society is built on trust.
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The infrastructure
society is all about
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people trusting one another.
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They destroy that trust.
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There's control of the media
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and the
institutionalization of torture,
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well, not surprisingly,
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there are serious
psychiatric ramifications
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of this repression.
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Posttraumatic stress,
major depressive disorder,
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anxiety,
schizophrenia like states,
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sleep disturbance,
sexual dysfunction,
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chronic hyperventilation,
I thought that was weird.
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You know, I
don't know what it is.
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Cognitive impairment,
akin to pseudo dementia.
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And in addition, there
are personality changes
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that have been noticed
and are actually talked about
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in the ICD 10,
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which is the
international diagnostic manual
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for all diseases.
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And the prominent
features of these include
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symptoms of apathy,
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you'd see why people
wouldn't care anymore.
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They can't affect anything.
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They can't make any difference.
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They can't even
control their own lives
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so they become
apathetic, chronic tiredness,
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lack of initiative,
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poor concentration
and paranoid thoughts.
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We're gonna have an
awesome discussion today.
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We have this
illustrious panel here.
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Shelly Wiggins,
licensed professional counselor
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for Michigan.
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David Guerrero,
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biblical
counselor from Wisconsin,
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Dr. Nivischi
Edwards from Tennessee.
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I know you're about to move
for certain wonderful reasons.
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And our wonderful
guest, Jaime Jorge
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or if you say it
with the Cuban inflection,
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it would be Jaime Jorge.
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Did I say it right? Yes.
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Okay, good.
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Well, I'll call you Jaime Jorge,
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when I can remember too
because I've been calling you
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Jaime Jorge for years.
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Did you know
that, behind your back?
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We're so glad you're here.
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And I'm really
excited about this discussion.
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And I just want to
start by asking you
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when were you first aware?
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I know that this was
going on when you were a child?
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When were you first aware
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that you were living
under a repressive government?
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Or did you never
know anything else?
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And you thought it
was just your normal?
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Well, I probably first knew
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when I started attending school.
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And one of the very first things
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that singled you
out as a Christian
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was your Young
Communist Party scarf.
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Everybody that attend school
in Cuba has to wear a uniform.
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And along with that uniform
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which was navy
blue shirts or pants,
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white shirt, or
burgundy pants or shorts.
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I think now they use
a mustard color as well
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for your pants,
or shorts, or skirts.
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Now you wear that scarf.
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And that is the scarf
that lets everybody know
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that you're a young communist.
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So if you didn't wear a scarf,
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you didn't wear
it for two reasons.
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One, because you
forgot it at home,
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which was frowned upon
or you were a Christian,
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and you purposely
did not wear that scarf.
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So the minute you
didn't wear your scarf,
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and you would line up
with hundreds of other kids
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to pledge allegiance
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and to sing the national anthem.
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You are easy
target. Exactly right.
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You can easily be
identified from the crowd.
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So then that's
when it would all begin.
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So how many in the school
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and how many
didn't wear the scarf?
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Hundreds and a handful.
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Maybe under 10 kind of thing?
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Yeah, quite easily.
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And so you are
identified, and your teacher,
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or your
principal, or other teachers,
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before you even
dismiss to go to class,
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they'll start coming over.
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So why aren't you
wearing your scarf today?
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And this was a daily thing.
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Well, because I'm a Christian,
why are you a Christian?
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They interrogated
you every day about it.
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I wouldn't say every
day but very frequently.
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I mean, I remember it
happening many, many times.
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So you stood out
like a sore thumb.
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Exactly, and any Christian,
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young lady or
young man would stick out
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and would
immediately go through this.
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Then you go into
class and you come late,
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and then the
students are just wondering
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and asking and mocking you.
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And so it becomes
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and everybody
against you feeling
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and you start
feeling that early on.
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And this was set
up intentionally.
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I think, absolutely,
because it's all about
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trying to make sure
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people conform
to what they want.
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Okay. I remember one time.
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And this is something that
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that made my parents very upset.
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I felt so accosted
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that I peed in my pants.
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Mercy.
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So now I can laugh at it now.
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But, you know, from a counselor,
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psychological point of view,
that's not good apparently,
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and so when I
said that to my mother.
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In fact they all just
diagnosed you with enuresis.
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That's it. That's
right. It's what I imagine.
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One of the many diagnosis
I'm sure you're going to have
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before the program is over.
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We're having so
much fun already.
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Like the pressure so
the intensity of being
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under that scrutiny...
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And so I didn't even
realize what was going on
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in other realms,
physiologically speaking.
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And so you go
through this every day until,
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as that paper was saying,
you have no individual thought,
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you have no independence
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because everything is now
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starting to be planned out
for you on many, many levels.
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Basically to create you
to be a robot under their...
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Regime. That's correct.
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To be what they
want you to be. Right.
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So I was very fascinated by
how he said it depends on...
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They really inculcate
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the loneliness
of the individual,
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or they make that happened.
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They make people lonely.
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Did you have any friends?
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I have friends.
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I had church friends. Okay.
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I had wonderful church
friends, but for instance,
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my neighborhood kids
or my neighborhood friends
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were not really my friends.
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I would, we had a ball field,
we lived outside the city.
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And so there was a ball field
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where people played
soccer and baseball,
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two of the main sports
that are played in Cuba.
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And almost every
time that I would go
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and there was some
other Christian friends
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that lived in that neighborhood.
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Almost every time we
would go there and we would say,
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"Hey, guys, you're about
to play soccer or baseball.
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Can we play?"
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Almost always the
answer was the same,
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"We don't play with Christians."
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So even in the
neighborhood kids your age
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are already sort
of singling you out,
00:10:06.74\00:10:08.90
they're mocking you,
they would come and ask us.
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So, you know, where is God?
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Tell us where's God?
00:10:13.84\00:10:15.68
There was a famous cosmonaut,
00:10:15.71\00:10:18.55
Russian cosmonaut
by the name Yuri...
00:10:18.58\00:10:19.91
You just have no
concept of what it's like
00:10:19.95\00:10:21.98
to live in a world
where religion is literally,
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you know, snuffed out,
or attempt to be snuffed out
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by the state, like,
can you imagine like...
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And that's the aim of communism
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is to replace God
with that ideology,
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which is one of the
reasons why it is so dangerous.
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Yeah, so I interrupted
you, you want to finish?
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Oh, that's okay.
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Getting back to the whole
loneliness thing, you'll go,
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you want to play
with your "friends,"
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and they tell you no,
because you're a Christian.
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Think about how that
would make somebody feel, well,
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you'd have to start questioning
why you are a Christian.
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You know what I mean?
Why can't I get along...
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Is it worth it? Exactly, right.
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And especially as a
child, we want to be a part of,
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we want to belong,
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we want to be
included, and a part of.
00:11:04.39\00:11:06.03
Right. It's like
bullying on steroids.
00:11:06.06\00:11:08.90
We deal with kids that
are dealing with bullying
00:11:08.93\00:11:11.07
in the schools
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and are having all kinds
of ramifications of that.
00:11:12.47\00:11:16.10
But this is a different level...
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You know, larger scale.
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It's more of
psychological bullying.
00:11:19.81\00:11:21.14
It's an entire community. Yeah.
00:11:21.18\00:11:22.58
Was their physical bullying?
00:11:22.61\00:11:23.95
Or was it mostly
just psychological?
00:11:23.98\00:11:25.31
No, I don't ever remember
being physically bullied.
00:11:25.35\00:11:29.68
But remember,
Christians were arrested,
00:11:29.72\00:11:31.95
they were
tortured, they were jailed,
00:11:31.99\00:11:33.62
and they were
killed for their faith.
00:11:33.66\00:11:34.99
Did you have any
relatives or know anybody
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on a close basis
that went through that or?
00:11:36.73\00:11:39.43
Well, my dad, who was a pastor
visited a number of members
00:11:39.46\00:11:43.33
who had been called to do
00:11:43.37\00:11:46.57
the compulsory army service.
00:11:46.60\00:11:49.90
And some of those never
made it out of the army.
00:11:49.94\00:11:53.98
'Cause they'd be persecuted
by the other soldiers.
00:11:54.01\00:11:55.34
They were persecuted.
They refused to bear arms.
00:11:55.38\00:11:57.55
They refuse to
do certain things,
00:11:57.58\00:11:59.71
and they would
be thrown in jail,
00:11:59.75\00:12:01.18
they would be put in
solitary confinement.
00:12:01.22\00:12:04.19
Solitary confinement is a
way to make you break down.
00:12:04.22\00:12:08.92
Talk about the
ultimate loneliness.
00:12:08.96\00:12:11.09
Calculated to do that.
00:12:11.13\00:12:12.46
And so we did, I
didn't know, I was too young.
00:12:12.49\00:12:15.13
I didn't know people like that.
00:12:15.16\00:12:16.50
But my father certainly did
00:12:16.53\00:12:17.87
and other
pastors went through it.
00:12:17.90\00:12:19.50
In fact, I have
noticed something
00:12:19.53\00:12:21.97
that in many of
the Christian pastors
00:12:22.00\00:12:24.84
from Cuba that came
00:12:24.87\00:12:27.11
around the time
that my family came,
00:12:27.14\00:12:29.68
many of them have been
diagnosed with dementia,
00:12:29.71\00:12:33.52
with Alzheimer's, with
PTSD because of the stress
00:12:33.55\00:12:39.25
and the strain
that they went through
00:12:39.29\00:12:42.79
in standing up for
their congregations,
00:12:42.82\00:12:46.53
in standing up
for their families.
00:12:46.56\00:12:48.50
One year the government decided
to fine all of the churches,
00:12:48.53\00:12:53.57
it didn't matter
the denomination,
00:12:53.60\00:12:55.07
every church in Cuba depending
on the size of the church
00:12:55.10\00:12:58.01
was fined a
certain amount of money.
00:12:58.04\00:13:00.21
And if you didn't
come up with that money
00:13:00.24\00:13:02.44
they would close
down that church.
00:13:02.48\00:13:04.65
And so everybody would
sell their toys, they would,
00:13:04.68\00:13:09.32
you know, sell their old toys,
00:13:09.35\00:13:11.15
the parents would
sell furniture this
00:13:11.19\00:13:13.12
and that to come up with
the money to pay the fine.
00:13:13.15\00:13:15.76
Did your parents
find ways of compensating
00:13:15.79\00:13:19.09
for this sort of
institutionalized loneliness
00:13:19.13\00:13:21.43
that was going on and
all of the ostracization
00:13:21.46\00:13:24.07
that you're going
through as a kid in school,
00:13:24.10\00:13:25.73
did they step in and
like create fellowship
00:13:25.77\00:13:28.60
in some other form for you,
00:13:28.64\00:13:30.37
warmth in the
family circle, church...
00:13:30.41\00:13:32.84
You know, what did you
do to kind of compensate?
00:13:32.87\00:13:34.88
Well, I
remember us having things
00:13:34.91\00:13:36.81
like family worship every day.
00:13:36.85\00:13:40.32
Our family worships were
hours long in the morning,
00:13:40.35\00:13:44.02
you know, my mom, my sister,
and I would have worship,
00:13:44.05\00:13:46.92
and we would sing,
00:13:46.96\00:13:48.29
and we would
play our instruments,
00:13:48.32\00:13:49.66
and we would preach,
00:13:49.69\00:13:51.03
we would do things
as a church family.
00:13:51.06\00:13:54.00
Not a lot, but enough that
you felt a sense of belonging.
00:13:54.03\00:13:58.47
Was it not a lot
because too much surveillance
00:13:58.50\00:14:01.60
or was it not a lot because
the church was just Laodicean?
00:14:01.64\00:14:04.87
No, because transportation
is an issue in Cuba.
00:14:04.91\00:14:09.48
And so you usually only
went to church when you had to
00:14:09.51\00:14:12.81
and people had to walk
miles or, you know, get a ride,
00:14:12.85\00:14:16.52
catch a ride, or get
on the bus, or whatever.
00:14:16.55\00:14:18.69
So it wasn't like you
could go to church, you know,
00:14:18.72\00:14:21.32
three or four times a week like
some churches have programs,
00:14:21.36\00:14:25.19
and activities,
and things like that.
00:14:25.23\00:14:27.10
So those were highlights
00:14:27.13\00:14:28.76
to be able to
congregate in church
00:14:28.80\00:14:30.40
because you felt a
sense of belonging,
00:14:30.43\00:14:33.50
a sense of community
which you didn't feel.
00:14:33.54\00:14:35.84
One of the things that I
remember as a 10 year old,
00:14:35.87\00:14:38.57
I thought in my little
mind when I got here was
00:14:38.61\00:14:41.61
people in this
country are so nice.
00:14:41.64\00:14:44.11
Everybody
smiled and everybody...
00:14:44.15\00:14:45.48
In the US? Yeah.
00:14:45.51\00:14:47.52
In Cuba it was just almost like
00:14:47.55\00:14:49.15
everybody's out to just survive.
00:14:49.18\00:14:51.69
So if you ask for directions
or if you ask for help,
00:14:51.72\00:14:54.29
people weren't
really very helpful.
00:14:54.32\00:14:56.32
A lot of
suspicion. That's correct.
00:14:56.36\00:14:58.29
I read this book
Escape from Camp 14.
00:14:58.33\00:15:00.26
It was a guy that grew up
in the camps in North Korea.
00:15:00.30\00:15:04.40
And so a little
different situation but similar,
00:15:04.43\00:15:06.47
you know, dynamics between
the government and the people.
00:15:06.50\00:15:10.01
And he escaped.
It's an amazing story.
00:15:10.04\00:15:12.77
But to this day, he says,
he has difficulty with bonding.
00:15:12.81\00:15:16.78
He sees people as, you know,
00:15:16.81\00:15:19.28
competition for
food kind of thing,
00:15:19.31\00:15:20.65
because that's how
it was in the camps.
00:15:20.68\00:15:22.48
Did you experience any of that?
00:15:22.52\00:15:24.22
Or was your family
able to insulate you enough
00:15:24.25\00:15:27.26
to where you
actually kept your humanity?
00:15:27.29\00:15:29.99
I would say, I was too young.
00:15:30.03\00:15:32.19
But to that
point, every community,
00:15:32.23\00:15:37.03
every neighborhood
in Cuba was organized
00:15:37.07\00:15:39.67
into something called CDR,
00:15:39.70\00:15:41.64
a Committee of
Revolutionary Defense,
00:15:41.67\00:15:45.51
every block, every community
00:15:45.54\00:15:47.84
had a director and
assistant director.
00:15:47.88\00:15:51.05
And they had
weekly, or bi weekly,
00:15:51.08\00:15:53.95
or bi monthly meetings
where everybody got together
00:15:53.98\00:15:58.29
and discussed
defending the revolution.
00:15:58.32\00:16:01.99
And what that meant was
00:16:02.02\00:16:03.53
that everybody was
watching everybody else.
00:16:03.56\00:16:06.83
So if you showed up at
3 o'clock in the morning,
00:16:06.86\00:16:09.70
one night, the next
morning police would be knocking
00:16:09.73\00:16:12.37
at your door saying,
00:16:12.40\00:16:13.77
"Where were you last
night? You came home."
00:16:13.80\00:16:16.04
So there is a...
00:16:16.07\00:16:17.41
They knew what you
were doing. That's right.
00:16:17.44\00:16:19.11
And it's created
to foster distrust
00:16:19.14\00:16:23.75
so that if I go
to you or to you,
00:16:23.78\00:16:25.41
and I say let's
overthrow the government,
00:16:25.45\00:16:28.05
you're automatically
going to turn me in
00:16:28.08\00:16:30.55
because you don't know
if I am a spy testing you,
00:16:30.59\00:16:36.39
and if I'm not,
00:16:36.42\00:16:38.59
you can't afford
to take that risk.
00:16:38.63\00:16:40.60
So you're going to turn me in
00:16:40.63\00:16:43.00
because then
you're off the hook.
00:16:43.03\00:16:45.00
Right. So you got
to protect yourself.
00:16:45.03\00:16:46.84
Yes.
00:16:46.87\00:16:48.20
It's opposite of what we
call Christian fellowship,
00:16:48.24\00:16:51.34
because everyone was
policing everybody else.
00:16:51.37\00:16:53.78
Correct.
00:16:53.81\00:16:55.14
So there's no
sense of safety anywhere.
00:16:55.18\00:16:56.98
No.
00:16:57.01\00:16:58.35
And if that is the objective
so that you feel lonely,
00:16:58.38\00:17:01.55
so that you can't trust anybody.
00:17:01.58\00:17:02.98
Yeah.
00:17:03.02\00:17:04.35
So what would you say have
been the ramifications for you?
00:17:04.39\00:17:06.59
You were a young
boy at that time,
00:17:06.62\00:17:09.99
at a pretty
sensitive and tender age.
00:17:10.03\00:17:12.53
You're a grown man now.
00:17:12.56\00:17:14.10
You've had a full and rich life.
00:17:14.13\00:17:16.63
Looking back in hindsight,
00:17:16.67\00:17:18.07
what would you say
had been the ramifications
00:17:18.10\00:17:19.83
of that life experience?
00:17:19.87\00:17:21.74
Well, for
certain, it's taught me
00:17:21.77\00:17:23.61
to appreciate the blessings
that we have in this country.
00:17:23.64\00:17:27.11
It's also made me
realize more the challenges
00:17:27.14\00:17:30.08
that we go
through because, you know,
00:17:30.11\00:17:32.25
for us to say this is
a wonderful that we go
00:17:32.28\00:17:34.35
and it's perfect, you know,
00:17:34.38\00:17:36.48
we would be putting
our heads in the sand.
00:17:36.52\00:17:39.72
At the same time, when I
look back at where I came from.
00:17:39.75\00:17:43.53
Of course, this is a place
00:17:43.56\00:17:46.09
that has
thousands more blessings
00:17:46.13\00:17:48.76
and freedoms than
where I came from.
00:17:48.80\00:17:50.87
So it's made me very
cognizant of our challenges here
00:17:50.90\00:17:55.17
so that I want to work
towards help, you know,
00:17:55.20\00:17:57.97
making that situation better.
00:17:58.01\00:17:59.71
But as well as being
thankful for what I have,
00:17:59.74\00:18:03.24
because I would
have never had it there.
00:18:03.28\00:18:05.71
One of the things
that I talked about
00:18:05.75\00:18:08.25
with people that
sometimes come to share
00:18:08.28\00:18:10.09
how frustrated they
are with some of the things
00:18:10.12\00:18:12.05
that are going on here, I say,
00:18:12.09\00:18:13.42
"Look how many Cubans
are daily getting on a raft,
00:18:13.46\00:18:17.59
a man made piece of wood to
try to come to this country,
00:18:17.63\00:18:21.40
risking their
lives across a shark
00:18:21.43\00:18:23.30
infested Gulf of Mexico."
00:18:23.33\00:18:25.57
And how many people
from this country do you see
00:18:25.60\00:18:27.84
so desperately get out
that they're willing to do
00:18:27.87\00:18:30.47
the same thing to go to Cuba?
00:18:30.51\00:18:31.97
So, Jaime, do you ever
feel like rolling your eyes
00:18:32.01\00:18:35.68
when you see Western self pity,
00:18:35.71\00:18:38.51
when people feel like
it's just so bad here,
00:18:38.55\00:18:41.42
that kind of attitude?
00:18:41.45\00:18:42.78
Did you ever just like...
00:18:42.82\00:18:44.15
Yes and no, because
that is their reality.
00:18:44.19\00:18:46.15
That's all they've ever know.
00:18:46.19\00:18:48.02
And one of the reasons
I challenge young people
00:18:48.06\00:18:50.79
to go on
mission trips is because
00:18:50.83\00:18:52.73
when they go to
another country like Haiti,
00:18:52.76\00:18:55.40
like Central
America, like wherever,
00:18:55.43\00:18:58.07
you're going to be awakened
to how good you have it here.
00:18:58.10\00:19:01.37
And then you're bound
to say, you know what?
00:19:01.40\00:19:03.27
Okay, we have challenge.
00:19:03.30\00:19:04.64
Let's try to work
to fix them instead of,
00:19:04.67\00:19:07.18
"Oh, I don't have enough money
to buy the brand new iPhone x
00:19:07.21\00:19:10.18
that is $1,100.
00:19:10.21\00:19:11.55
Or, you know,
those are our problems.
00:19:11.58\00:19:13.38
You know, they're
not real problems.
00:19:13.42\00:19:14.75
Third world,
first world problems.
00:19:14.78\00:19:16.12
Exactly, right.
00:19:16.15\00:19:17.49
My nail just broke,
and I have a performance
00:19:17.52\00:19:18.85
that I need to go
have a mani-pedi before.
00:19:18.89\00:19:21.69
So I want to get into
during the second half
00:19:21.72\00:19:24.46
of this program.
00:19:24.49\00:19:25.83
I want to get into
how your experience
00:19:25.86\00:19:28.03
has affected your philosophy?
00:19:28.06\00:19:30.10
And maybe even touch
a little on your kind of
00:19:30.13\00:19:32.17
your inclinations politically
and where they come from.
00:19:32.20\00:19:35.30
But since we're counselors,
00:19:35.34\00:19:36.67
I would like to
open this up to you guys
00:19:36.71\00:19:38.34
and ask you if you were working
00:19:38.37\00:19:41.48
with a client that had been
00:19:41.51\00:19:42.84
through a political
dictatorship, and regimented,
00:19:42.88\00:19:45.61
and repressed the
way he's describing
00:19:45.65\00:19:47.52
but without the
insulation of a good family.
00:19:47.55\00:19:50.79
What would you do with
that person to help them
00:19:50.82\00:19:52.69
or the guy that I described
from "Escaped from Camp 14,"
00:19:52.72\00:19:55.32
who's having difficulty bonding
00:19:55.36\00:19:57.26
because he grew up
in a doggy dog world,
00:19:57.29\00:20:00.56
and his limbic
system is hyper aroused,
00:20:00.60\00:20:03.60
and he's always in
survival mode because of it.
00:20:03.63\00:20:05.57
What do you do with those people
00:20:05.60\00:20:07.54
to help them recover?
00:20:07.57\00:20:10.57
For me, I would
immediately go to my specialty
00:20:10.61\00:20:15.31
with equine assisted therapy,
00:20:15.34\00:20:16.88
because we're
taking the focus off
00:20:16.91\00:20:19.98
of I can't trust human beings,
00:20:20.02\00:20:21.95
because they've
done terrible things.
00:20:21.98\00:20:24.25
But I can go into God's nature
00:20:24.29\00:20:26.82
and I can be with
this beautiful, amazing,
00:20:26.86\00:20:28.86
majestic animal
that's not going to harm me
00:20:28.89\00:20:31.69
because it's also a prey
animal that's been preyed upon,
00:20:31.73\00:20:35.73
and build from
there, and just go for that.
00:20:35.76\00:20:38.93
And feel free,
Jaime, just to comment
00:20:38.97\00:20:40.70
if you think these
things would be effective.
00:20:40.74\00:20:42.84
You know, because
you've been there we haven't...
00:20:42.87\00:20:44.37
You know, for me,
00:20:44.41\00:20:45.91
one thing that I will
attempt to do is to end it
00:20:45.94\00:20:48.94
with a question I
want to have for you is
00:20:48.98\00:20:51.08
to try to get to where
their source of pain is
00:20:51.11\00:20:53.62
because there must
have been a lot of pain,
00:20:53.65\00:20:56.28
you go through that experience.
00:20:56.32\00:20:58.05
And then trying to help
with the heal from that pain.
00:20:58.09\00:21:01.62
You know that pain
that we experience...
00:21:01.66\00:21:02.99
Still we want
like the government
00:21:03.02\00:21:04.36
to care about us
sort of, you know,
00:21:04.39\00:21:05.86
at least be out
for the common good,
00:21:05.89\00:21:07.70
you know, and then when you
sense that they're really not.
00:21:07.73\00:21:11.23
I mean even
though they say they are,
00:21:11.27\00:21:12.60
but you got it at
some point realize, "no,"
00:21:12.63\00:21:15.10
it would be
painful, I would think.
00:21:15.14\00:21:16.47
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:16.50\00:21:17.84
And then you
know, like a question
00:21:17.87\00:21:19.21
I wanted to ask you was
00:21:19.24\00:21:21.14
did you ever questioned
your faith as a Christian?
00:21:21.18\00:21:24.81
I only questioned if
here in this country.
00:21:24.85\00:21:26.58
Oh, okay.
00:21:26.61\00:21:27.95
So when I had luxury,
and comfort, and opportunity,
00:21:27.98\00:21:32.92
and freedom, and all of that.
00:21:32.95\00:21:34.32
I didn't question it over there.
00:21:34.36\00:21:36.96
And so what did you do?
00:21:36.99\00:21:38.83
Or what was your experience
00:21:38.86\00:21:40.46
that kept you from
questioning your faith?
00:21:40.50\00:21:42.60
Because most people,
00:21:42.63\00:21:43.97
when they go to
something as traumatic,
00:21:44.00\00:21:45.83
they begin to question God...
00:21:45.87\00:21:47.60
Or they go to the other
place which it sounds like
00:21:47.64\00:21:50.21
where you went
where you clung to God
00:21:50.24\00:21:52.17
because God was
your saving grace.
00:21:52.21\00:21:54.14
That's right. Yeah.
00:21:54.18\00:21:55.51
And what happened to your life
that brought you to the place
00:21:55.54\00:21:59.68
that, you know, that
helped you to just cling to God
00:21:59.71\00:22:02.88
because I think that's something
00:22:02.92\00:22:04.25
is very important for us.
00:22:04.29\00:22:05.62
Well, in Cuba, I clung to Jesus.
00:22:05.65\00:22:07.82
Okay. Here I started studying.
00:22:07.86\00:22:10.73
Well, how old?
00:22:10.76\00:22:12.39
When I started college
because I went to a college
00:22:12.43\00:22:17.23
or university unlike
anything I've ever been to.
00:22:17.27\00:22:19.67
I went to Loyola
University of Chicago.
00:22:19.70\00:22:22.34
And so it's a
totally different experience.
00:22:22.37\00:22:24.17
I had gone to
small Christian schools
00:22:24.21\00:22:26.61
with 100 kids, this and that.
00:22:26.64\00:22:28.34
I go to Loyola
with thousands of kids.
00:22:28.38\00:22:30.68
And a faith that's different.
00:22:30.71\00:22:32.05
It's Catholic, right? Yep.
00:22:32.08\00:22:33.75
But there was everything
there, you know, and nothing.
00:22:33.78\00:22:38.69
And then I went to the parties
and I saw people I was 17.
00:22:38.72\00:22:43.22
So you came to the
United States when?
00:22:43.26\00:22:45.13
How old? At 10.
00:22:45.16\00:22:46.49
At 10.
00:22:46.53\00:22:47.86
And then by the time you
went through Adventist schools
00:22:47.90\00:22:49.50
until 17, small private schools?
00:22:49.53\00:22:52.70
Until 16 and then I
went to a Christian school,
00:22:52.73\00:22:55.70
and I graduated
there high school.
00:22:55.74\00:22:57.11
And then finally
you're in Loyola University
00:22:57.14\00:23:01.38
and it's wild.
00:23:01.41\00:23:03.04
And it's just different
than anything I'd ever seen.
00:23:03.08\00:23:06.72
So I said, "Let
me check this out,"
00:23:06.75\00:23:08.65
because these people seem
to be having a lot of fun.
00:23:08.68\00:23:10.69
So there was no partying
and that kind of thing in Cuba?
00:23:10.72\00:23:14.52
Not at my age. Yeah.
00:23:14.56\00:23:16.02
In Cuba, what has happened,
00:23:16.06\00:23:18.39
and that paper
describes it perfectly,
00:23:18.43\00:23:20.60
is the breakdown of everything.
00:23:20.63\00:23:24.17
Social fiber, moral fiber,
forget about economic fiber,
00:23:24.20\00:23:29.40
then people resort to what?
00:23:29.44\00:23:31.61
Drinking, and sleeping
around, and doing whatever,
00:23:31.64\00:23:35.81
because you want to have
00:23:35.84\00:23:37.65
a little bit of
fun to offset that pain
00:23:37.68\00:23:40.65
because you're not
going to find gratitude,
00:23:40.68\00:23:44.49
you're not going to find joy,
00:23:44.52\00:23:45.85
you're not going
to find anything.
00:23:45.89\00:23:48.56
Does the government attempt
to regulate people morally,
00:23:48.59\00:23:51.19
like does it try to
keep adultery from happening
00:23:51.23\00:23:53.16
or anything or it
doesn't care about that?
00:23:53.19\00:23:54.53
Not at all. I
think they encourage it.
00:23:54.56\00:23:57.73
Really?
00:23:57.77\00:23:59.10
Anything goes Okay. Okay.
00:23:59.13\00:24:01.40
So you saw kind of
people quietly behind the scenes
00:24:01.44\00:24:04.27
just engaging in
these demoralizing behaviors
00:24:04.31\00:24:06.57
to try to cope with the pain
and stress that they're under.
00:24:06.61\00:24:09.44
Yeah. Okay.
00:24:09.48\00:24:10.81
And I'm seeing that
obviously as I get older now,
00:24:10.85\00:24:12.61
and as I go back to
Cuba couple of times a year,
00:24:12.65\00:24:15.85
and I see a different
perspective than a 10 year old.
00:24:15.88\00:24:18.75
Obviously, I wasn't
seeing that as a 10 year old,
00:24:18.79\00:24:20.96
I see it now as I'm
walking the streets,
00:24:20.99\00:24:23.36
and I'm talking with people,
00:24:23.39\00:24:24.76
and I'm seeing
what they're doing.
00:24:24.79\00:24:26.63
What got you pass the party,
you know, the enchantment?
00:24:26.66\00:24:30.17
Yep, it was
actually very simple...
00:24:30.20\00:24:31.53
What broke the spell?
00:24:31.57\00:24:32.90
That I realized that
at the end of the night
00:24:32.93\00:24:34.64
when you went home
at two, three, four,
00:24:34.67\00:24:36.20
five o'clock in the morning,
00:24:36.24\00:24:37.57
you were
exhausted, you were hung over.
00:24:37.61\00:24:40.21
Well, I bet it
affected your violin playing.
00:24:40.24\00:24:43.71
I couldn't play.
00:24:43.75\00:24:45.08
Alcohol doesn't really
help anybody with their stuff.
00:24:45.11\00:24:46.45
No, exactly.
00:24:46.48\00:24:47.82
But I just thought, I
just wasted all this time,
00:24:47.85\00:24:50.09
energy, and money, and
what have I got for it.
00:24:50.12\00:24:52.15
Nothing.
00:24:52.19\00:24:53.52
So I realized very
quickly that it's a mechanism
00:24:53.56\00:24:56.52
to drown out pain, or
to kill time, or whatever.
00:24:56.56\00:24:58.96
And I said, "You know what,
I don't have time for this."
00:24:58.99\00:25:00.76
Because one thing
I noticed about you
00:25:00.80\00:25:02.13
is you're a little
bit of a hard worker.
00:25:02.16\00:25:04.17
A little bit.
00:25:04.20\00:25:05.53
I don't think you ever homed
00:25:05.57\00:25:06.90
for any weekend
ever in your whole life.
00:25:06.94\00:25:08.64
No. You play constantly.
00:25:08.67\00:25:10.41
I don't know anybody that
does more concerts than you.
00:25:10.44\00:25:12.44
No musician that I know
concertisizes more than you do.
00:25:12.47\00:25:15.31
I know one.
00:25:15.34\00:25:16.68
You do who? His
name is Herman Harp.
00:25:16.71\00:25:18.41
Okay. And he's
not doing it anymore.
00:25:18.45\00:25:21.05
But he used to do
about 250 concerts.
00:25:21.08\00:25:23.22
He was my mentor. Was he?
00:25:23.25\00:25:24.85
I guess, well,
he rubbed on you...
00:25:24.89\00:25:26.22
He just showed me the
way. He showed you the way.
00:25:26.25\00:25:28.76
Is that the fruit of this world
00:25:28.79\00:25:31.66
that you grew up
in with no options?
00:25:31.69\00:25:34.33
And was it just
like an explosion
00:25:34.36\00:25:36.46
of look at all the options
00:25:36.50\00:25:37.83
and you just
threw yourself into it.
00:25:37.87\00:25:39.20
Do you think that
there's a connection there
00:25:39.23\00:25:40.57
between...
00:25:40.60\00:25:41.94
Most certainly. Yeah.
00:25:41.97\00:25:43.30
But I also love what I do.
00:25:43.34\00:25:44.77
And I have a sense the calling,
00:25:44.81\00:25:46.81
I left medical
school to do this.
00:25:46.84\00:25:49.04
So Loyola was medical school?
00:25:49.08\00:25:51.48
College and then University
of Illinois was medical school.
00:25:51.51\00:25:53.58
Okay.
00:25:53.62\00:25:54.95
But we only have a certain
amount of time on this earth.
00:25:54.98\00:25:57.52
And so yeah, we might
as well make it count.
00:25:57.55\00:26:00.02
Amen.
00:26:00.06\00:26:01.39
And so I have a
passion for what I do,
00:26:01.42\00:26:02.86
which is using music
to preach the gospel.
00:26:02.89\00:26:05.19
Yeah.
00:26:05.23\00:26:06.56
And I need to balance
that with my personal life,
00:26:06.59\00:26:09.96
my time with my wife
00:26:10.00\00:26:11.77
was a very good friend of yours,
00:26:11.80\00:26:14.34
who I love,
00:26:14.37\00:26:15.70
and I love to
spend time with her,
00:26:15.74\00:26:17.07
and I want to be with her.
00:26:17.11\00:26:18.44
Do you spend time?
00:26:18.47\00:26:19.81
I mean, can you come
home and you do have time?
00:26:19.84\00:26:21.18
Yes, we have
parameters. We get date nights.
00:26:21.21\00:26:22.74
You know, I'm a counselor
and I'm always thinking,
00:26:22.78\00:26:24.41
how is that marriage doing?
00:26:24.45\00:26:25.78
Date nights,
praise the Lord. Yes.
00:26:25.81\00:26:27.85
So you use music as
an instrument of healing.
00:26:27.88\00:26:32.05
That's right.
00:26:32.09\00:26:33.42
And I have a question,
00:26:33.46\00:26:34.79
music as he was
engaging in music,
00:26:34.82\00:26:37.56
how did it heal
you because that...
00:26:37.59\00:26:39.69
Oh, it was my escape.
00:26:39.73\00:26:41.13
Man, it is a great
question. There you go.
00:26:41.16\00:26:42.83
It became my own world
00:26:42.86\00:26:45.23
because in it I
could play Beethoven,
00:26:45.27\00:26:47.20
and Bach, and Tchaikovsky,
00:26:47.24\00:26:48.80
or other pieces
that were not allowed.
00:26:48.84\00:26:53.64
I mean it's, you
know... In bring healing to you.
00:26:53.68\00:26:55.61
And that became
an outlet for me.
00:26:55.64\00:26:58.18
Beautiful. Wow.
00:26:58.21\00:26:59.85
Have you guys all been
to one of his concerts?
00:26:59.88\00:27:01.25
Absolutely.
00:27:01.28\00:27:02.62
I always say,
00:27:02.65\00:27:03.99
"Jaime, that you
make love to your fans.
00:27:04.02\00:27:05.89
It's awesome.
00:27:05.92\00:27:07.26
You know, I'm just
always amazed that the violin
00:27:07.29\00:27:09.42
is still in one piece
at the end of the concert.
00:27:09.46\00:27:12.66
Well, we're going to
talk more in the second half
00:27:12.69\00:27:16.13
about how growing up
under a dictatorship,
00:27:16.16\00:27:20.17
a communist dictatorship
00:27:20.20\00:27:21.54
has affected
you philosophically,
00:27:21.57\00:27:24.47
how you approach life
00:27:24.51\00:27:26.07
a little bit on
your views on politics.
00:27:26.11\00:27:27.88
And we don't want
to get too political
00:27:27.91\00:27:29.24
because it's a
religious station.
00:27:29.28\00:27:30.61
But I want to touch on that
00:27:30.65\00:27:31.98
because I follow you on Twitter.
00:27:32.01\00:27:33.85
And I kind of have a
feel for where you're at
00:27:33.88\00:27:36.38
and I want to discuss that.
00:27:36.42\00:27:37.85
I also want to find
out a little more about
00:27:37.89\00:27:39.25
how you came around out
of that party mentality.
00:27:39.29\00:27:42.16
So be with us in the second half
00:27:42.19\00:27:45.13
of our what is the
name of this dictatorship
00:27:45.16\00:27:47.96
and mental health.
00:27:48.00\00:27:49.33
We'll find out.
00:27:49.36\00:27:50.70
Just how crazy
Jaime Jorge really is.
00:27:50.73\00:27:52.37
But we love him and
he's blessed us already.
00:27:52.40\00:27:54.17
Please come with
us in the second half.
00:27:54.20\00:27:56.71