Welcome to A
Multitude of Counselors
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where we know that it
doesn't hurt to admit our hurt.
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We're going to honestly open
a bit of a can of worms today,
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the title of our Program
is "Jesus' Take on Racism"
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yes, we are going
to talk about racism.
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Racism is defined as prejudice,
discrimination or antagonism
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directed against
someone of a different race
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based on the belief
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that one's own race is superior.
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Now that belief can be
conscious or unconscious...
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interestingly enough.
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The wounds acquired
through racism run very deep
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both
individually and collectively.
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Trauma... we find...
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can be communicated genetically
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such that the wounds of racism
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can be handed down from
generation to generation.
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What about the
prevalence of racism?
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Well, this depends
on who you talk to...
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88 percent of Blacks say that
there is such a thing as racism
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but only 57 percent of
whites agree with that.
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One study of
racial discrimination
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and
psychopathology across the US
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found that African
Americans experience
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significantly more
instances of racism
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than either Asian
or Hispanic American.
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Furthermore,
those African Americans
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who experience the most racism
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are significantly
more likely to experience
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post-traumatic
stress as a result.
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The bottom line
of all of that is
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approximately one in
ten black people in America
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have become traumatized
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as a result of our
problem with racism.
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You know, racism rests on
the foundation of the belief
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that one's race is superior.
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So in essence, racism is
a collective form of pride.
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What about the
prognosis and treatment?
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The work of
reconciliation as I see it
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demands of us...
empathic listening...
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we have to be willing
to hear from other people
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what happened to them
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as a result of what we did
either directly or indirectly,
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and I happened to be a believer
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in what we call collective
or "corporate repentance. "
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I am sorry for what white
people did to black people
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as a white person,
I tell black people...
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"I'm sorry for what my
people did to your people...
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I feel terrible about it... "
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and I may not have been there,
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I may not have lynched anyone,
I may not have... have...
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have... you know, taken their
seat on the bus or whatever,
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but I still feel a
sense of repentance
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for what my people
did to their people
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so the work of reconciliation
demands empathic listening,
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victim support...
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and ideally... repentance
on the part of the perpetrator.
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Now the
complicated thing about racism
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is that it kind
of goes both ways,
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things get
complicated after awhile
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and there's wrong on both sides.
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So, yes, we are
opening a can of worms today
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on A Multitude of Counselors
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but we're going
to try to zoom in
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on the emotional
effects of racism.
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Our talk is... "Jesus... "
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our Program is:
Jesus' Take on Racism
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and our guest... our
special guest is Joel Avery.
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Joel, I still don't
know how to describe you,
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you're a Creative...
that works with computers
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and architecture, is that okay?
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That's good... that's great...
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He's a geek...
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okay and he's very talented...
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and he has his own story...
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and we're going to be
getting into parts of his story
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but we also have on
our Panel of Counselors,
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we have David Guerrero
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Biblical
Counselor from Wisconsin.
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We have Licensed Professional
Counselor from Michigan,
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Shelly Wiggins... my girl...
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and we've got Dr. Jean
Wright from Philadelphia...
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my homie from Philly...
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and so, we have
three Philadelphians
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on this Panel today...
really exciting... it's awesome.
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So, let's open
the can of worms here,
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Joel, tell us your story,
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where have you
experienced racism?
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And I think
we're going to zoom in
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on how you've experienced
racism within the church...
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like I said... can of worms.
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Joel: It is a can of
worms and it's interesting
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because what
brought me here today
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really occurred
relatively recently
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so, in transitioning
from one State to another...
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moving from
Philadelphia down to Florida...
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family had a lot going on
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and it was interesting
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getting used to a new location
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but we were kind of
looking forward to a change
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and we were sad to leave our
church family in Philadelphia
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but it was interesting
to see the new churches...
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larger churches in
Orlando and to make new friends
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and new relationships there.
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Jennifer: So when did you move?
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Joel: This was
just two years ago.
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David: 2015.
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Jennifer: Yeah, so we've
both recently left Philadelphia
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and are still mourning.
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Joel: Yes... I will
always be a Philadelphian...
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but... but...
you know... it was...
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there were lots of good
reasons for the relocation, so,
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it was a nice change of pace...
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but we noticed that
there were some differences
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in the feel at
our... the new congregations
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we were visiting
compared to our home church
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and we thought that
some of these differences
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were related to the size
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because we went from a
relatively small church
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and there were very
large churches down there
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but we couldn't
quite put our finger
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on what the other issues were
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and it really became evident
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mostly when there were issues
of some sort of social unrest
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in particular, one of
the things that had happened
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while we were in Orlando,
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there was the
Charleston shooting
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where someone
walked in to a group
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that was having prayer meeting
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and killed people that were
in the midst of prayer meeting,
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actually people that
had welcomed him in...
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it was a... the young white
man into a black congregation
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and it was a terrible thing...
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it happened on a
Wednesday night...
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Wednesday night
prayer meeting...
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something that
everyone was used to
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and it was a tragedy...
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and we expected...
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when we went to church
the following Sabbath...
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to hear some condolences
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and some mention
of the tragedy...
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Shelly: Or an explanation
for the unexplainable...
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David: And why did
you have that expectation?
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Joel: Because if... at
our church in Philadelphia,
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that would have been...
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something... we probably
would have mentioned it.
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David: So you're saying, in
one church where you came from
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if something
like that happens...
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Jean: Appreciation of humanity,
that one would expect there.
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David: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and
then there's a silence... okay.
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Joel: Yeah, so it was a little
strange and a little off-putting
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just because I go to
church for a sense of community
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and a sense of comfort
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and it just felt
like, "Okay, well maybe...
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even though there are 800
other people in these pews,
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maybe I don't quite
fit in here, I don't know.
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Jennifer: You start
feeling like an outsider.
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Joel: Yes.
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Jennifer: And you felt
very much like an insider
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in your church in
Philly. Joel: Yes.
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Jennifer: Because something like
that would have been processed
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and it would have
been talked about...
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and there would have
been empathy and support...
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but here you are
in a larger church
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and you're not sure why...
but it's not being processed
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and as a result, you
don't feel like an insider.
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Joel: Absolutely, absolutely.
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Shelly: Or at least
maybe a mention of...
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"As we gather for prayer
today, let's remember... "
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even a moment...
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not even a moment...
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Joel: Anything...
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Jennifer: Like
we said, crickets...
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Joel: Yeah, there were
crickets and it wasn't...
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I was very careful... again...
because everything's brand new
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and so, you
don't know what's what
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but it's been two years now
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and for most of
these types of occasions...
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we know what's been
going on in America,
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there have been all
kinds of things going on...
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all kinds of
stories in the news.
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Just before we sat down here,
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just last week,
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there was another terrible
shooting of a young black man
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by a cop who... fortunately
they arrested him right away
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but yeah... it was
another inexplicable thing
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and these things have
been going on all along
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but those are
the types of things
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that just weren't
being translated...
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weren't being
addressed or looked at.
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David: And so, what I
hear you saying is that
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and Dr. Wright has
pointed this out...
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that it doesn't
matter the church you go to
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as Christians, we should...
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when something tragic
like that takes place...
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there should be something that
is said in respect for humanity
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and what I hear
you saying is that...
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in one church that took place
in the other... that didn't...
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and it made you
feel uncomfortable.
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Joel: Absolutely.
David: Okay, okay...
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Jean: If I could
ask a question, Joel,
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I mean, there's a lot of social
unrest as you indicated...
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not just in the last two years
but forever... in America...
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and so, people
become uncomfortable
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in discussing things...
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as Jennifer alluded
to in her opening...
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people just want to
move on... and, you know,
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"If I'm white... my
ancestors did whatever they did
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but, you know, I didn't do
it so let's just move on... "
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and there are African
Americans who will also say,
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"You know, that
was a long time ago,
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it doesn't
affect me anymore... "
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and I think both are wrong...
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I think the one condition
unique about the United States
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is that we're one
of the few countries
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that identify people by color,
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as opposed to
class... or something else...
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no other country I've been
to... or people I've talked to
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defined people as
black or white as a color...
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they usually
identify them in other ways
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and so, my question to you
is, "In this new congregation,
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were you able to
discuss other social injustices
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that did not involve race?
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There are other
things going on in the world
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that do not involve race...
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was your
congregation up to that task?
00:10:09.40\00:10:12.04
Joel: It's very
interesting because
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as many people know... in
Orlando, there was a larger
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I'll say, a larger atrocity...
00:10:19.95\00:10:22.98
Jennifer: Involving LGBT...
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Joel: Yes, during the
Pulse nightclub shooting...
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Jennifer: In the nightclub...
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Joel: It was a very
big event because... it...
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again... it was in the community
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and there were many
people that lost their lives
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and it was interesting to see
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which churches in
the communities responded
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and how they responded...
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and I was happy to
see some of the churches
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that responded very
swiftly and very actively
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whether it was
just a prayer meeting
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or sending Counselors out...
00:11:00.32\00:11:02.62
so this particular church...
they did send a Counselor out
00:11:02.66\00:11:08.76
but it felt a little
quiet still within...
00:11:08.83\00:11:12.97
because, I think,
like... we started off with...
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it is a difficult...
another difficult issue...
00:11:15.30\00:11:17.54
another thing...
00:11:17.57\00:11:18.91
but it just...
it came back to me
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that when you're talking
about color or other issues,
00:11:21.58\00:11:27.58
it really shouldn't matter,
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the sympathy and the
empathy should be there...
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because we're
Christians and we love...
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we're supposed to
love as Jesus loved
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so, it doesn't
matter, who or what or when...
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if there's a tragedy to
anyone, within the congregation
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or outside of the congregation,
00:11:47.74\00:11:49.07
there should be
expressions of love
00:11:49.10\00:11:50.97
and expressions of sympathy.
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Shelly: Jesus came alongside
others and He wept with them
00:11:52.37\00:11:55.04
He didn't say,
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"I'm not sure about what was
going on and how this happened"
00:11:56.78\00:12:00.22
He came alongside
and He wept with them.
00:12:00.25\00:12:03.12
David: Yes, and that's one thing
that Jesus was criticized of...
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looking at all the people groups
that He would hang out with
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and they
criticized Him for that...
00:12:08.96\00:12:10.76
and if we want to reflect Jesus,
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then we should have that same
00:12:12.56\00:12:13.90
active attitude
for all humanity.
00:12:13.93\00:12:16.40
Jean: Yeah, we need to have the
courage to address those issues
00:12:16.43\00:12:19.10
and I think, what the
love is... loving we can do.
00:12:19.13\00:12:21.17
Jennifer: What can we do to...
00:12:21.20\00:12:23.07
what can white people do
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to help black people
feel more comfortable
00:12:25.14\00:12:27.91
in the church context?
00:12:27.94\00:12:29.28
I mean, because
there's this historic wound
00:12:29.31\00:12:31.81
and like I said,
it can be passed...
00:12:31.85\00:12:34.45
trauma can be
passed down genetically
00:12:34.48\00:12:35.98
I mean, it's there...
it's the elephant in the room
00:12:36.02\00:12:39.19
and if we just ignore it
and pretend it doesn't exist,
00:12:39.22\00:12:42.36
it doesn't go away,
you know, "Hello... "
00:12:42.39\00:12:44.83
so what can we
do to let you know
00:12:44.89\00:12:47.33
that we don't
want to repeat history,
00:12:47.36\00:12:49.76
we want to be friends with you,
00:12:49.80\00:12:51.83
we don't want
this to happen over,
00:12:51.87\00:12:53.47
we don't want you
to project on to us
00:12:53.50\00:12:55.04
what's happened
to you in the past...
00:12:55.07\00:12:56.57
we want to make a fresh start,
00:12:56.60\00:12:58.17
what can we do to
get that to happen
00:12:58.21\00:13:00.18
and to assure you of that.
00:13:00.21\00:13:01.58
David: And as you
answer that question,
00:13:01.61\00:13:03.21
what I'd like to hear...
and I'm Latin American...
00:13:03.24\00:13:06.31
so I'm a minority too is...
in response to her question,
00:13:06.35\00:13:10.62
I just don't want to
see something external
00:13:10.65\00:13:12.89
because we all can
do things externally,
00:13:12.92\00:13:15.09
but something that
really changes the heart...
00:13:15.12\00:13:18.49
Jean: An internal change...
David: An internal change...
00:13:18.53\00:13:20.33
Jennifer: You know
Joel, my approach...
00:13:20.36\00:13:21.70
I was in Philly for 15 years
00:13:21.73\00:13:23.06
and I was in a
black church for 15 years
00:13:23.10\00:13:25.07
and I would talk
openly about stuff
00:13:25.13\00:13:26.67
and I would be told, "No,
you should be color blind"
00:13:26.70\00:13:28.80
but I'm like, "No,
it's here... it's real... "
00:13:28.84\00:13:31.77
and I would just be really open
00:13:31.84\00:13:34.41
and I would go
to places in Philly
00:13:34.44\00:13:36.34
where there would be
obviously prejudice against me
00:13:36.38\00:13:39.35
because it was the
"black part of town"
00:13:39.38\00:13:41.25
and at first it was offensive
to me... and I would think,
00:13:41.28\00:13:43.92
"Well, I didn't do anything here
why are you treating me this way
00:13:43.95\00:13:45.69
I'm going to go to your
Manager and tell on you... "
00:13:45.72\00:13:47.36
you know... but then I thought,
00:13:47.42\00:13:48.76
"You know what? I can
take that from them...
00:13:48.79\00:13:50.13
because look at what my
people did to their people...
00:13:50.16\00:13:51.99
I'm not taking it personally,
I'm going to just let it lie
00:13:52.03\00:13:55.03
because what they're really
doing there is expressing pain,
00:13:55.06\00:13:57.93
it's not against me personally,
it's their pain coming out...
00:13:57.97\00:14:00.77
and I'm going to
interpret it that way... "
00:14:00.80\00:14:02.64
and things went much
better for me in Philly
00:14:02.67\00:14:04.51
as a result of that
attitude because I learned...
00:14:04.54\00:14:07.64
but what can we do to
help you feel like we care
00:14:07.68\00:14:10.75
because I, as a
white person, can tell you,
00:14:10.78\00:14:12.81
it's been easier for me...
00:14:12.85\00:14:15.58
I haven't suffered
exactly what you've suffered
00:14:15.62\00:14:18.65
maybe in another form, I have...
00:14:18.69\00:14:20.76
but I may not be as
sensitive as I need to be
00:14:20.79\00:14:23.96
but I want to be...
I'm committed to be...
00:14:23.99\00:14:27.13
and sometimes I feel like...
00:14:27.16\00:14:29.10
people aren't assuming
00:14:29.13\00:14:31.00
that I'll be indifferent
when I'm really not...
00:14:31.03\00:14:33.67
so how can I
show you that I care
00:14:33.74\00:14:35.27
and how can we move forward?
00:14:35.30\00:14:37.17
Well, I think that part of
the issue is for all of us...
00:14:37.21\00:14:43.75
everyone to
recognize that that bias exists
00:14:43.78\00:14:47.05
and that... that... that...
00:14:47.08\00:14:50.09
it can be difficult for people
00:14:50.12\00:14:53.05
because everybody wants to say,
"Oh, no, I'm not prejudiced...
00:14:53.09\00:14:55.72
I don't have
anything against whites...
00:14:55.76\00:14:57.23
or I don't have
anything against blacks
00:14:57.26\00:14:58.69
or against Hispanics... "
00:14:58.76\00:15:00.10
but we all have biases
in some form or another...
00:15:00.13\00:15:02.66
and so that... that instant
identification of color...
00:15:02.73\00:15:05.47
black or white...
that's part of the bias...
00:15:05.50\00:15:07.84
and that's not...
00:15:07.87\00:15:09.20
it's not necessarily a
bad thing in and of itself...
00:15:09.24\00:15:12.64
but failing to
recognize those biases
00:15:12.67\00:15:15.61
usually causes problems.
00:15:15.64\00:15:17.08
Jennifer: So,
number one, admit it...
00:15:17.11\00:15:18.45
Joel: Yeah... again... yes...
00:15:18.48\00:15:20.18
David: That it
exists... admit that it exists.
00:15:20.22\00:15:22.08
Joel: Admit that it's an
issue. David: Yeah... it is.
00:15:22.12\00:15:24.55
Jennifer: But do I have
to admit that I'm a racist?
00:15:24.59\00:15:27.92
Joel: You have to
admit that you have biases...
00:15:27.96\00:15:31.29
and that we live
in a biased society...
00:15:31.33\00:15:33.53
Jennifer: So it
would be helpful if I said,
00:15:33.60\00:15:35.76
"Look, I may have
unconscious biases
00:15:35.80\00:15:37.43
but you may see me
acting a certain way...
00:15:37.47\00:15:39.23
maybe I'm acting
out of my blind spot
00:15:39.27\00:15:41.40
and I am giving preferential
treatment to white people,
00:15:41.44\00:15:45.11
I'm gravitating toward
people that look like me,
00:15:45.14\00:15:47.51
and forgive me for that
because I don't know myself
00:15:47.54\00:15:49.88
fully yet, as a human being... "
00:15:49.91\00:15:51.98
would that be helpful?
00:15:52.01\00:15:53.35
Joel: That would
be very helpful and...
00:15:53.38\00:15:55.28
you know, what's
helpful for me even right now...
00:15:55.32\00:15:58.29
is that we're all
at this table right now
00:15:58.32\00:16:01.72
just discussing it...
00:16:01.76\00:16:03.09
Shelly: And people are
watching and benefiting from it,
00:16:03.12\00:16:05.99
because they're thinking about
what we're talking about, right?
00:16:06.03\00:16:09.06
Joel: And knowing
that it can be discussed
00:16:09.10\00:16:12.93
and as long as
people are open and honest
00:16:13.00\00:16:16.81
and willing to
discuss these things,
00:16:16.84\00:16:19.97
that's the most important thing,
00:16:20.01\00:16:22.24
that's why I said, "Nobody... "
00:16:22.28\00:16:24.45
I was never feeling like
somebody needed to stand up
00:16:24.48\00:16:27.55
in the church and
start a donation fund
00:16:27.58\00:16:30.25
or do anything like that,
00:16:30.29\00:16:32.55
but just being able to say,
"Hey, this tragedy has occurred"
00:16:32.59\00:16:36.02
and recognizing these things
00:16:36.06\00:16:38.19
and I think part of the
historical problem is that...
00:16:38.23\00:16:41.13
is not recognizing that these
things have happened in the past
00:16:41.16\00:16:46.40
and that they have shaped
the Systems in which we now live
00:16:46.43\00:16:49.50
and have helped
color our thoughts
00:16:49.54\00:16:52.74
and the things that we do
00:16:52.77\00:16:54.11
so, you mentioned a few
statistics at the beginning
00:16:54.14\00:16:56.54
another great
statistic that just came out...
00:16:56.58\00:16:58.65
in 2016... 99 percent of all
students that were handcuffed
00:16:58.68\00:17:03.69
in New York City Schools
00:17:03.72\00:17:06.02
were African American
or Latino... 99 percent...
00:17:06.05\00:17:10.03
okay, and they make
up less than 60 percent
00:17:10.06\00:17:13.96
of the school population
00:17:14.00\00:17:15.63
but they were still... much
more likely to be handcuffed
00:17:15.66\00:17:18.87
than anyone else
00:17:18.90\00:17:20.74
and these things
aren't necessarily
00:17:20.77\00:17:22.54
because we talked about...
00:17:22.60\00:17:23.94
I didn't do this or
that to their ancestors...
00:17:23.97\00:17:27.54
well, those things...
they did happen in the past
00:17:27.58\00:17:31.28
and they do "color"
our understanding...
00:17:31.31\00:17:34.52
Jennifer: The numbers speak...
00:17:34.55\00:17:36.22
Joel: Yeah, the numbers speak
00:17:36.25\00:17:37.59
and so, it's recognizing
that those things do exist
00:17:37.62\00:17:39.35
and how do we...
how do we address this?
00:17:39.39\00:17:41.52
Jennifer: So, I have been told
00:17:41.56\00:17:43.29
by black people
in my congregation
00:17:43.32\00:17:45.16
that I acted in a racist manner
00:17:45.19\00:17:46.73
and that was difficult
for me because I don't...
00:17:46.80\00:17:50.07
if there... there... it
may be true I have a blind spot
00:17:50.10\00:17:53.50
I don't realize
unconsciously what I'm doing...
00:17:53.54\00:17:55.77
but for them to
step into my blind spot
00:17:55.80\00:17:58.11
and start telling me
what's going on inside me
00:17:58.14\00:18:00.01
feels invasive...
00:18:00.04\00:18:01.38
and so, I have a
difficult time with that,
00:18:01.41\00:18:04.81
however, I have gone online
00:18:04.85\00:18:07.18
and I encourage
people to do this,
00:18:07.22\00:18:08.55
go online and take
an "Implicit Bias Test"
00:18:08.58\00:18:11.12
and those things
will scare you to death
00:18:11.15\00:18:13.66
because you realize that you're
more racist than you realized
00:18:13.69\00:18:16.02
because what they do is they...
00:18:16.06\00:18:17.63
they're set up in such a way
00:18:17.66\00:18:19.19
that you have to
make a decision so quickly
00:18:19.23\00:18:21.00
that it's only your unconscious
mind that is making the decision
00:18:21.03\00:18:23.87
you can't think through it
because the mind moves slower
00:18:23.90\00:18:26.87
and it shows you that
maybe you have more prejudices
00:18:26.94\00:18:29.87
than you wanted to believe
you did... scary stuff...
00:18:29.90\00:18:32.47
David: And so what do we
do when we recognize that?
00:18:32.51\00:18:35.04
Jennifer: We need
to jump off a cliff...
00:18:35.08\00:18:36.51
Laughter...
00:18:36.54\00:18:37.91
Jennifer: We go to
our brothers and say,
00:18:37.95\00:18:40.52
"You know, I might be more awful
than I realize but I love you.
00:18:40.55\00:18:43.52
David: Part of it is crying
out to the Lord and saying,
00:18:43.55\00:18:46.02
"Lord, you know...
this exists in me... "
00:18:46.05\00:18:47.66
Jean: Well, I think
it's important to go back
00:18:47.72\00:18:49.06
to something that
Jennifer hit on...
00:18:49.09\00:18:50.43
and I don't think
it's the responsibility
00:18:50.46\00:18:53.06
of "the dominant culture"
00:18:53.09\00:18:55.03
to try to make the
00:18:55.06\00:18:57.57
communities of color feel
more comfortable, I think...
00:18:57.60\00:19:02.77
and I intentionally do not
use color to describe people
00:19:02.80\00:19:05.81
but I don't think it's... I
don't think that's the issue,
00:19:05.84\00:19:08.81
"How can I make you
feel comfortable with me?"
00:19:08.84\00:19:10.55
Or "How can I make you
feel better about being with me
00:19:10.58\00:19:13.58
"or make you feel... "
to me that's patronizing...
00:19:13.62\00:19:16.62
and what it really
comes down to is...
00:19:16.65\00:19:19.49
going back to the
Christianity aspect of it
00:19:19.52\00:19:21.86
and humanity aspect of it,
00:19:21.89\00:19:23.26
"How can me...
myself... just me...
00:19:23.29\00:19:26.13
not my race...
not my ancestors...
00:19:26.16\00:19:28.93
me... how can I love you
00:19:28.96\00:19:31.67
in the way that
you need to be loved?"
00:19:31.70\00:19:33.94
"How can I
respect you in the way
00:19:33.97\00:19:35.80
that you need to be respected?"
00:19:35.84\00:19:37.61
Jennifer: But don't
you think that demands
00:19:37.64\00:19:38.97
that I recognize that
there's some collective wounds?
00:19:39.01\00:19:40.71
Jean: Yeah, but I don't think
you do it in a way by saying,
00:19:40.74\00:19:43.01
"How can I make black people
feel comfortable with me?"
00:19:43.04\00:19:44.91
Or, "How do I make white
people comfortable with me?"
00:19:44.95\00:19:46.41
Jennifer: It can
be very patronizing.
00:19:46.45\00:19:47.92
Jean: Yeah, it's
an individual thing...
00:19:47.95\00:19:49.28
and if you as an individual
take stock of your space
00:19:49.32\00:19:51.99
and what you do and
what you bring to the table
00:19:52.02\00:19:53.86
and your
presentation stimulus...
00:19:53.89\00:19:55.22
that will take care of itself,
00:19:55.26\00:19:56.79
it is not your responsibility
00:19:56.83\00:19:58.29
for the other
people who look like you
00:19:58.33\00:19:59.66
to do the same thing,
each individual has to do it.
00:19:59.69\00:20:03.06
Shelly: We start right here,
00:20:03.10\00:20:04.77
we can't start
on such a broad...
00:20:04.80\00:20:06.47
Jean: Right,
I'd start with me...
00:20:06.50\00:20:08.07
Jennifer: I do think
white people need to repent
00:20:08.10\00:20:10.47
for what they did to
black people collectively.
00:20:10.51\00:20:13.17
David: Okay, you know,
and here we're saying...
00:20:13.21\00:20:15.81
and I'll be very
brief... because,
00:20:15.84\00:20:18.18
growing up in Brooklyn, New
York and that's where I'm from,
00:20:18.21\00:20:21.55
and I'm not proud to say this,
00:20:21.58\00:20:22.92
my father, for some time...
said he didn't like black people
00:20:22.95\00:20:26.45
and you know...
00:20:26.49\00:20:27.82
here we are... living in a
black-Spanish neighborhood...
00:20:27.86\00:20:29.72
but one person's
act of love changed that
00:20:29.76\00:20:32.59
and this is what happened...
00:20:32.63\00:20:34.40
he was out in the street
00:20:34.43\00:20:36.20
and a Hispanic brother
00:20:36.23\00:20:39.37
was robbing him...
00:20:39.40\00:20:42.47
so my father...
00:20:42.50\00:20:43.87
these are two Spanish men...
00:20:43.91\00:20:45.57
and one Spanish man
is robbing another...
00:20:45.61\00:20:47.51
and the guy took out a knife
00:20:47.54\00:20:49.24
and he was going
to stab my father...
00:20:49.28\00:20:50.61
well, a black man saw it
and you know what he did?
00:20:50.65\00:20:53.68
He saved my father's life...
00:20:53.72\00:20:55.05
my father comes
home... he's weeping...
00:20:55.08\00:20:57.39
and he starts telling us...
00:20:57.42\00:20:59.69
"You know, I was wrong... "
00:20:59.72\00:21:01.92
so that act of
love changed his heart.
00:21:01.96\00:21:06.53
Jean: Yes... yes...
00:21:06.56\00:21:07.90
David: And that's what
you're talking about...
00:21:07.93\00:21:10.20
one man's action...
00:21:10.23\00:21:11.57
Jean: Absolutely... can
change your total perspective
00:21:11.60\00:21:13.74
on the whole group of people
00:21:13.77\00:21:15.10
and unfortunately,
one negative action
00:21:15.14\00:21:17.24
can make you feel a certain
way about a group of people.
00:21:17.27\00:21:20.08
Jennifer: We've had a
lot of the negative ones,
00:21:20.11\00:21:21.51
we want more of
those kinds of stories...
00:21:21.54\00:21:23.14
so that's powerful
story... thank God for that.
00:21:23.18\00:21:25.21
David: It changed his
life... and he was weeping...
00:21:25.25\00:21:27.22
and he said, "I
was so mistaken... "
00:21:27.28\00:21:29.02
he said, "I
could be dead today...
00:21:29.05\00:21:30.79
but he saved my life... "
00:21:30.82\00:21:33.42
Joel: And that story
reminds me of Jesus...
00:21:33.46\00:21:40.20
and... while He and the
disciples were traveling along,
00:21:40.23\00:21:45.50
a woman came
yelling after them...
00:21:45.53\00:21:47.74
"Lord, my daughter is
possessed by a demon...
00:21:47.77\00:21:54.44
help me... help me out... "
00:21:54.48\00:21:57.11
and Jesus continued to walk
00:21:57.15\00:21:59.71
while this woman is
crying out to him...
00:21:59.75\00:22:02.88
and the disciples...
out of their cultural bias,
00:22:02.92\00:22:06.69
out of their prejudices...
because she was a woman...
00:22:06.72\00:22:10.86
she was a Gentile...
00:22:10.89\00:22:12.89
and who knows how
many other things...
00:22:12.93\00:22:15.33
they wanted to ignore her, okay,
00:22:15.36\00:22:18.90
and wanted Jesus
to tell her to go away
00:22:18.93\00:22:21.17
and what did Jesus do?
00:22:21.20\00:22:23.41
He kind of followed through...
He played along with them...
00:22:23.44\00:22:27.14
Jennifer: He knew she had
enough faith to get through it.
00:22:27.18\00:22:29.74
Joel: Exactly.
00:22:29.78\00:22:31.85
Jennifer: And she said,
"Even the dogs get the crumbs"
00:22:31.88\00:22:34.92
He said, "I've come for
the lost sheep of Israel...
00:22:34.98\00:22:36.79
I've not come for you...
you're outside of my... "
00:22:36.82\00:22:38.62
and she said,
"Even dogs get the crumbs
00:22:38.65\00:22:40.19
that fall from
the Master's table. "
00:22:40.22\00:22:41.72
Joel: So, it's just...
it's an incredible story
00:22:41.76\00:22:44.46
because Jesus
understood two things,
00:22:44.49\00:22:46.96
He understood the
pain of this woman
00:22:47.00\00:22:49.40
and He understood the
situation of the disciples
00:22:49.43\00:22:54.64
and their cultural biases...
00:22:54.67\00:22:56.94
and He was looking
for a way to break through
00:22:56.97\00:23:00.21
so He acted as if He
had the same feelings
00:23:00.24\00:23:03.45
and understanding the
same biases that they had...
00:23:03.48\00:23:06.85
but in the end... He... He...
evaluating this woman's faith...
00:23:06.88\00:23:11.65
He was able to
give her what she needed
00:23:11.69\00:23:14.69
while at the same time
00:23:14.72\00:23:16.06
giving the
disciples a demonstration
00:23:16.09\00:23:19.19
and I think that
that's... Jennifer, in asking
00:23:19.23\00:23:22.76
"What can we do?"
00:23:22.80\00:23:24.60
Okay, sometimes we
have to do the same
00:23:24.63\00:23:27.04
and we have to find
ways to show people...
00:23:27.07\00:23:29.44
to show ourselves
00:23:29.47\00:23:32.37
and other people
in our congregations
00:23:32.41\00:23:34.31
that... "Look, this is...
00:23:34.34\00:23:36.44
you've got the wrong
point of view here...
00:23:36.48\00:23:38.41
this is how it
needs to be adjusted... "
00:23:38.45\00:23:40.22
and that's how
Jesus approached it.
00:23:40.25\00:23:41.98
Jean: Do you think it
would be worth the risk
00:23:42.02\00:23:44.09
to go to your congregation
and say something like that?
00:23:44.15\00:23:47.22
And saying, "Oh, there's a
lot of social adjustments... "
00:23:47.26\00:23:49.72
Jennifer: I know what church he
goes to and I'm like, "whew. "
00:23:49.76\00:23:51.13
Jean: I mean,
just take the risk...
00:23:51.16\00:23:52.49
just point out that there are
social injustices going around,
00:23:52.53\00:23:56.36
I think we could
do something positive.
00:23:56.43\00:23:58.20
Jennifer: Do you think that they
don't want to talk about things
00:23:58.23\00:24:00.54
that could become
politically charged
00:24:00.57\00:24:03.07
or, do you think it's selective?
00:24:03.10\00:24:05.34
Joel: No, I think it
is... most congregations...
00:24:05.37\00:24:09.61
even smaller congregations...
00:24:09.64\00:24:12.01
they like things to move
straight across a status quo...
00:24:12.05\00:24:16.89
and so, in some ways
you can understand how...
00:24:16.92\00:24:22.92
why they might feel that way
00:24:22.99\00:24:24.56
but then, sometimes
things can't go status quo
00:24:24.59\00:24:28.03
there was a status quo again...
00:24:28.06\00:24:30.83
Jesus walked in
to church one day
00:24:30.87\00:24:33.37
and He looked around and
He said, "What are you doing?"
00:24:33.40\00:24:36.20
And Jesus... the
Creator of the universe...
00:24:36.24\00:24:39.21
decided to make
a home-made whip...
00:24:39.24\00:24:41.51
and go ahead and start...
00:24:41.54\00:24:43.55
Jennifer: Rustle
it up a little bit...
00:24:43.58\00:24:45.71
Joel: Yeah... He
really got into it.
00:24:45.75\00:24:47.85
Jennifer: He wasn't
afraid of uncomfortable moments.
00:24:47.88\00:24:49.78
Joel: He was not afraid
of uncomfortable moments
00:24:49.82\00:24:51.65
and He was not afraid to
speak about it in church...
00:24:51.69\00:24:54.22
and to let everybody know...
00:24:54.26\00:24:56.02
so, sometimes we...
we have to understand...
00:24:56.06\00:24:58.36
"Yes, there will be
uncomfortable moments... "
00:24:58.39\00:25:00.66
and sometimes the
Leadership has to...
00:25:00.70\00:25:02.03
has to reach out like that.
00:25:02.06\00:25:03.57
All: Hmmm... Jennifer: Yeah.
00:25:03.60\00:25:05.07
David: So, as Christians we need
to know when to take the risk
00:25:05.10\00:25:09.40
and how to go about taking that
risk... just like Christ did
00:25:09.44\00:25:13.74
and that's what you're saying.
00:25:13.78\00:25:15.11
Jennifer: So, give
us some pointers...
00:25:15.14\00:25:16.48
you have about a
minute and a half...
00:25:16.51\00:25:17.85
so give us some
pointers, how... what can we do?
00:25:17.88\00:25:20.02
What risks can we take?
00:25:20.05\00:25:21.62
Joel: Definitely,
risk dialogue, okay, and...
00:25:21.68\00:25:25.42
and risk being
open... and sitting down...
00:25:25.45\00:25:29.22
even if it has to
start in small groups
00:25:29.26\00:25:31.73
and taking the risk...
00:25:31.76\00:25:34.80
maybe this is
really the only thing...
00:25:34.83\00:25:37.57
taking the risk to love...
00:25:37.60\00:25:38.97
Shelly: To fellowship together,
00:25:39.03\00:25:40.60
like... what
we're doing right now.
00:25:40.64\00:25:42.44
Jennifer: Like, the fact...
00:25:42.47\00:25:43.81
part of the problem is
that we do stay segregated...
00:25:43.84\00:25:45.94
we do gravitate to
people that look like us...
00:25:45.97\00:25:49.44
maybe we should
challenge that...
00:25:49.48\00:25:50.81
maybe we should
say, "You know what?
00:25:50.85\00:25:52.95
I'm going to go join a
black church for a while...
00:25:53.01\00:25:54.68
just want to
know these people... "
00:25:54.72\00:25:57.05
I grew up in an all-white world,
00:25:57.09\00:25:59.35
I was uncomfortable with
that by the time I was 16...
00:25:59.39\00:26:02.92
but I had no idea
what to do about it...
00:26:02.96\00:26:04.69
and all I could do was...
00:26:04.73\00:26:06.06
my black cleaning
lady came every week
00:26:06.09\00:26:07.96
and I would go to her... I
had nothing to say to her...
00:26:08.00\00:26:10.53
she was from a
totally different world...
00:26:10.57\00:26:11.90
but I'd say, "Do you
want a glass of orange juice?"
00:26:11.93\00:26:13.87
And she'd say, "Yes... "
00:26:13.90\00:26:15.24
and I'd give her a glass of
orange juice... that's all I did
00:26:15.27\00:26:17.01
but I was trying... in my way...
00:26:17.04\00:26:19.01
to cross that chasm...
00:26:19.04\00:26:21.24
and sometimes... I'm an adult...
and I can make choices...
00:26:21.28\00:26:24.95
to put myself in situations that
will help me learn how to relate
00:26:24.98\00:26:29.38
to people that
are different than me
00:26:29.42\00:26:30.92
and I think
that's a mature choice...
00:26:30.99\00:26:32.42
Shelly: See you and I had
so... completely different...
00:26:32.45\00:26:35.66
I grew up in Detroit...
00:26:35.69\00:26:37.19
I went to church
with black people...
00:26:37.23\00:26:39.13
my context of
learning about Jesus
00:26:39.19\00:26:41.63
and singing
those beginning songs
00:26:41.66\00:26:44.07
is being surrounded
by brothers and sisters
00:26:44.10\00:26:47.04
of all different
colors and ethnicities...
00:26:47.07\00:26:49.60
so my beginning constructs...
00:26:49.64\00:26:51.67
like, my picture of
heaven is going back to that
00:26:51.71\00:26:54.44
so this is pretty
emotional for me... so...
00:26:54.48\00:26:57.55
Jennifer: And you know it
says that the Holy City...
00:26:57.58\00:27:00.58
the gates are open and
the nations walk in and out
00:27:00.62\00:27:02.72
and that word is ethnos...
00:27:02.75\00:27:04.09
so we have... heaven
to look forward to...
00:27:04.12\00:27:06.65
where we will all mingle...
00:27:06.69\00:27:08.39
but I find that even on earth
00:27:08.42\00:27:10.29
when we worship
multi-culturally,
00:27:10.33\00:27:12.13
there's an energy and a
power that comes into that...
00:27:12.16\00:27:15.60
that we're really...
when we're homogenous racially
00:27:15.63\00:27:19.07
we really don't
benefit as much, I think,
00:27:19.10\00:27:21.04
so we need to take
proactive choices to mingle...
00:27:21.07\00:27:24.47
and to get to know one another.
00:27:24.51\00:27:26.47
I want to challenge those of you
00:27:26.51\00:27:28.41
that have been
part of this Program...
00:27:28.44\00:27:30.28
to go home...
00:27:30.31\00:27:31.68
and if you're computer
literate enough to do this,
00:27:31.71\00:27:33.58
put in the search
engine: Implicit Bias
00:27:33.62\00:27:36.95
and take an Implicit
Bias Test, they're free...
00:27:36.99\00:27:39.85
and it will show you that
maybe you're not as completely
00:27:39.89\00:27:43.06
free of prejudice
as you thought you were
00:27:43.09\00:27:44.56
and then go to your Bible
00:27:44.59\00:27:45.93
and see what the
Bible says about racism...
00:27:45.96\00:27:48.26
and make a decision
by the grace of God...
00:27:48.30\00:27:50.70
to do everything
you can in your life
00:27:50.73\00:27:52.83
to overturn this great evil
that has come upon our Society,
00:27:52.90\00:27:56.44
God is love...
00:27:56.47\00:27:58.01
and part of that love
is crossing those divides.
00:27:58.07\00:28:00.61