Welcome to A
Multitude of Counselors
00:00:27.52\00:00:29.59
where we don't sidestep the
elephant in the Living Room.
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Today we're going to be talking
about Ego-Addiction Detox.
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Let me talk to you about
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Narcissistic
Personality Disorder.
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It's a part of a
cluster of disorders
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that are
essentially personality traits
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that come to
dominate the person's
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entire character or personality
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and they're
actually quite rare...
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there is a one
disorder among them called
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Narcissistic
Personality Disorder
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which is
considered a mental disorder
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in which people have an inflated
sense of their own importance,
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a deep need for admiration
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and a lack of
empathy for other people.
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Hmmm... how prevalent is
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Narcissistic
Personality Disorder?
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Well, actually all
personality disorders
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are pretty
rare... fortunately...
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We all have character flaws...
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we all have
issues... we all have pride...
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we all have lack
of empathy sometimes
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but it's rare that that trait
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comes to kind of take over
the person's entire personality
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so fortunately, they are rare
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but most that suffer from
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Narcissistic
Personality Disorder are male...
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The Cause... narcissism
is thought to be underpinned
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by a deep sense of insecurity.
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It's that strange
paradox where the person
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seems so
confident and so together
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but in reality, you
see glimpses sometimes
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of deeply laid insecurity
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and I think we're probably going
to be unpacking some of that.
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It's also thought that
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anxious- or
avoidant-attachment style
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in childhood
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can set a person up for
Narcissistic personality
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but we're not blaming
the family because sometimes
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pride takes on
a life of its own,
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regardless of how
good the parenting is.
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Most people with
Narcissistic personalities
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don't believe they need help
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but if they can
come to the place
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where they see
that there's a problem
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and they're willing to face the
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"elephant in the
living room" so to speak,
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then Counseling can be helpful
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because a Counselor
can help an individual
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evaluate their life experience,
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see, life
experience in and of itself
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doesn't teach us anything
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but evaluated life experience
can teach us something
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and it can lead
to transformation,
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so we're going to be
talking to someone today
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who, maybe could be...
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have been diagnosed
at some point in his life
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with narcissistic
personality... I don't know...
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you might have a different idea,
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but the title of our show
is: Ego-Addiction Detox...
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so it sounds pretty
narcissistic to me...
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our guest is Tim Allston...
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he insisted on me using
small non-caps for his name
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and I consistently did that,
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I don't know if you caught that,
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but he says that
he's a recovered...
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or recovering ego-addict...
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very interesting, so
welcome to our Program, Tim,
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I'm so glad you made it
here and it was so cool...
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I met Tim on LinkedIn
and we went back and forth
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and he agreed to
come, so it was awesome.
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So, I also want to introduce
our panel of counselors,
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we've got David...
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Biblical Counselor,
David Guerrero from Wisconsin,
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so glad you're here David...
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David: Glad to be here...
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Jennifer: And we've got
Licensed Professional Counselor,
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from Georgia, Christina Cocotte,
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and we've got Dr. Jean Wright
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from Philadelphia
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and we're so thankful
to have each one of you
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on our Program today.
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So, Tim, let's
get into your story...
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when did this all start?
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Were you just born
kind of egotistical
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or... what happened?
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Tim: Shame on you...
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Laugher...
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Tim: God showed me, Jennifer...
that I had a problem,
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bad addiction problem...
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and Jean, it is
an addiction problem
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that is older than Planet Earth.
00:04:05.54\00:04:07.34
Jennifer: Yeah.
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Tim: When I began to look at it,
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when I began to
look at this whole thing,
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I began to see that
the problem that I had...
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is a problem that
affects everybody.
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I term it, Christina,
as being "ego-holism... "
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like alcoholism...
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ego-holism... which
is an addiction to self.
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I defined it as
thinking too highly of yourself
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and... or... thinking
too little of your God
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and acting excessively
upon those impulses...
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and so I began to realize the
fact... that I had a problem.
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I had, in 39 years
of employment David,
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I have been fired
13 times... 13 times...
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and there was a
basic pattern to it...
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year one... learn the job...
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year two... get
industry awards...
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year three... get fired...
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and I began to say,
"Something is wrong here... "
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and I sat down with a
business Christian Counselor
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and she... and we began
to talk out different issues
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and she said,
"Well, Tim... " I said...
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she said, "You're so charming...
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so articulate...
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you walk in the
room... you fill the room. "
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I said, "Yes... "
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I said, "I've always done
that until I got married...
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my wife lets me get
away with none of that...
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and then the Lord
gave me that word...
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the Lord gave me the word...
so I guess I'm an ego-holic...
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in need of recovery... "
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She said, "Tim, nobody
has written on that subject...
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that's your spiritual
DNA... run with it... "
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Jennifer: That is, and
that's what caught my attention,
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and I have to say, I was like,
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"This is the
elephant in the room...
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and everybody
struggles with this issue
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but who's
written about it so far?"
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So, was it bred into you
from the time you were young?
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Tim: Well, I... and this
will come as a shock to you...
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I'm a sinner... like
everybody else here...
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all have sinned and have
come short of the glory of God,
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but... what really to me...
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if I can pinpoint
a date and time...
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I was raised in church school,
00:05:47.34\00:05:49.04
I was a good little
fourth-generation Adventist,
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mother was the
Principal of the school...
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father was First Elder...
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Jennifer: For
the benefit of people
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that may not know
what an Adventist is,
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it's a Christian...
Seventh-day Adventist Christian,
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so you were raised in the
Seventh-day Adventist Church
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with the belief in
Jesus and all of that.
00:06:02.12\00:06:03.96
David: And going to Adventist
Schools... church schools.
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Tim: And then going
to Adventist Schools,
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the world's second largest
part of the school system,
00:06:06.76\00:06:09.93
and I just got tired of
being "that good boy... "
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I got tired of being...
and so I begged my parents...
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because I was 14... I
was athletic and we don't...
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in Adventist schools we
kind of shun competitive sports,
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I said, "Please let me go
to the local High School... "
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my father had gone there, he
was a Track Star back in 1938
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I wanted to go there.
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Begrudgingly, they allowed
me to leave Church School
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and that began the decline.
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I say it that way because
in Faith-based Institutions,
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the focus is on Christ,
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it is Christ
centered... Christian centric...
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everything we do
is... how does the Bible...
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how does it stack
up against Christ?
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But when you go to a
non-faith-based institution,
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the focus is on you...
"Be all you can be... "
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"Be the best you could be... "
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so it's focused on
you... ego... egocentric...
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and I began that
almost imperceptible slide
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away from Christian
centrism to egocentrism.
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Wow! so it was
something that was within you
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but until you got
in that environment
00:07:07.26\00:07:09.92
where it was overtly encouraged,
00:07:09.96\00:07:12.23
you didn't really
step over that threshold,
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but then, you were
in the environment,
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you stepped over the threshold,
what happened from there?
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Well, like the
prodigal son's story in Luke,
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I said to my
parents in 8th grade...
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"Give me my inheritance...
" so they gave me my smarts...
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my professionalism, my
articulation, my charm,
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and my being easy-on-the-eyes,
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so I took my S P A C E
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but because it had
no spiritual grounding,
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I became a S P A
C E... a Space Cadet
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I was just out
here... just doing...
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pimping off of those skills
and values and experiences
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and exposures... from
Church-School education
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but using them in a secular...
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and using them in a
non-God glorifying way.
00:07:56.20\00:07:59.17
And, so you're in the
Corporate world at this point
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and you're good at
obtaining positions
00:08:02.28\00:08:05.91
and yet you
follow this trajectory
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of one year of ramping
up, doing more than your...
00:08:09.55\00:08:13.96
you're excelling and then...
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something
happens... what happens?
00:08:17.33\00:08:19.03
What began to happen is the fact
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that I began to become exposed.
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I began to become
less than that résumé...
00:08:22.20\00:08:25.93
less than that persona
and what began to happen is
00:08:25.97\00:08:29.77
I began to lose jobs and
after losing that 13th job,
00:08:29.80\00:08:33.58
I said,
"Something... whoa, whoa, whoa,
00:08:33.61\00:08:35.28
there is a pattern here... "
00:08:35.31\00:08:36.64
and I began to realize...
the pattern wasn't the jobs,
00:08:36.68\00:08:39.35
it wasn't racism...
00:08:39.38\00:08:40.98
it wasn't anything
else... it was Tim Allston...
00:08:41.02\00:08:43.89
I was an ego-holic...
00:08:43.92\00:08:45.39
I had focused on
being bigger than I was,
00:08:45.42\00:08:48.19
but also, as you
said in the opening,
00:08:48.22\00:08:50.93
I also got Narcissistic
Personality Disorder...
00:08:50.96\00:08:53.80
never met a
mirror I didn't like...
00:08:53.83\00:08:56.40
Ah ha... I'm interested in what
you guys have to say about this
00:08:56.43\00:09:00.34
because it's really
hard to get through the wall
00:09:00.37\00:09:05.37
a narcissistic person puts up...
00:09:05.41\00:09:07.78
as a Counselor... someone
that's trying to help people,
00:09:07.81\00:09:10.38
you see people
destroying themselves
00:09:10.41\00:09:12.15
and you want to go to help them
but they're ego is so sensitive
00:09:12.18\00:09:15.92
that you question
anything about them
00:09:15.95\00:09:17.55
and immediately
the wall gets higher,
00:09:17.59\00:09:19.15
and so, apparently,
00:09:19.19\00:09:21.42
somehow the wall
got broken down for you
00:09:21.46\00:09:24.26
do you guys run into this
00:09:24.33\00:09:25.69
where you try to help
people not be so narcissistic
00:09:25.73\00:09:28.50
and it ends up backfiring?
00:09:28.53\00:09:29.96
You know what I'm talking about?
00:09:30.00\00:09:31.33
One question that comes to
my mind, as I'm listening to you
00:09:31.37\00:09:34.37
that would be helpful to
the audience and myself is...
00:09:34.40\00:09:38.64
you say God revealed to you
that you are having a problem,
00:09:38.67\00:09:42.84
how did God reveal that to you
00:09:42.91\00:09:44.48
because oftentimes there's
struggle... there's tension...
00:09:44.51\00:09:47.28
when God is trying to get
my attention and I'm resisting,
00:09:47.32\00:09:50.02
how did God reveal that to you
00:09:50.05\00:09:51.49
and what was your
first response to God?
00:09:51.52\00:09:53.42
All: Laughter.
Jennifer: "No... "
00:09:53.46\00:09:55.42
Tim: "Not me... "
00:09:55.49\00:09:57.06
through prayer...
through fasting...
00:09:57.09\00:10:00.76
and through a wife who
would take no prisoners...
00:10:00.80\00:10:03.16
I began to replay
the situations in my life
00:10:03.20\00:10:06.74
and began to see where I
had done a lot of things wrong
00:10:06.77\00:10:11.04
had hurt people...
had drained people...
00:10:11.07\00:10:13.48
either with a big ego at times
00:10:13.51\00:10:15.51
or drained people
with a little ego at times.
00:10:15.54\00:10:17.65
Jennifer: The
insecurities... yeah.
00:10:17.71\00:10:19.15
Tim: Yes, yes, I
mean... I remember
00:10:19.18\00:10:20.62
let me... for example...
when I went to college,
00:10:20.65\00:10:22.35
there were 2,300
students in the school,
00:10:22.38\00:10:24.12
I'd never been to
that school before
00:10:24.15\00:10:25.72
that first day I said,
00:10:25.75\00:10:27.09
"I'm going to become
the Student Body President"
00:10:27.12\00:10:28.69
it was insecurity...
00:10:28.72\00:10:30.06
so I began my campaign and
became Student Body President
00:10:30.09\00:10:33.19
not because I was
the most articulate...
00:10:33.23\00:10:35.26
not because I was the
most... the best builder...
00:10:35.30\00:10:38.73
it was out of insecurity...
00:10:38.77\00:10:40.10
Christina: I was just wondering,
00:10:40.14\00:10:42.50
if you could expand
upon that insecurity,
00:10:42.54\00:10:44.57
what beliefs did
you have about yourself
00:10:44.61\00:10:47.01
that motivated you
to try to be the best?
00:10:47.04\00:10:49.31
Tim: When I got there
to college for example,
00:10:49.34\00:10:51.61
I didn't know a
single person on the campus,
00:10:51.65\00:10:53.92
I knew I had a
scholarship there so...
00:10:53.95\00:10:55.92
and I knew I was coming
out of a very, very strong
00:10:55.95\00:10:59.05
Christian Seventh-day
Adventist environment,
00:10:59.09\00:11:00.76
in a
non-Seventh-day Adventist...
00:11:00.79\00:11:02.12
non-Christian school...
00:11:02.16\00:11:03.49
so the social... some
of the social things...
00:11:03.53\00:11:05.63
I'd never been partying
before or drinking before...
00:11:05.66\00:11:08.73
so, there was a
sense of insecurity
00:11:08.76\00:11:11.27
and plus some of the...
most of the students there...
00:11:11.30\00:11:13.00
some of them knew each other,
00:11:13.03\00:11:14.37
they'd been in
social clubs together...
00:11:14.40\00:11:15.74
they knew each other...
00:11:15.77\00:11:17.11
and so, I was
there... that lone person...
00:11:17.14\00:11:19.37
and out of that
sense of insecurity...
00:11:19.41\00:11:22.31
I, as I said, put on
those Adam-and-Eve fig leaves
00:11:22.34\00:11:26.01
covered that... by running for
00:11:26.05\00:11:28.92
and becoming the
Student Body President.
00:11:28.95\00:11:30.62
Christina: A fear
of not being liked?
00:11:30.65\00:11:32.32
Tim: Yes, yes...
00:11:32.35\00:11:33.72
and I remember once
when I was in school,
00:11:33.76\00:11:35.39
went into a teacher's
office, brand-new teacher...
00:11:35.42\00:11:37.86
1975... had a sign on the
wall saying "Prosperity...
00:11:37.89\00:11:40.26
spending money you don't have...
to buy things you don't need...
00:11:40.30\00:11:43.63
to impress people
you don't even like. "
00:11:43.67\00:11:46.17
Jennifer: Laughter
"That's my life... "
00:11:46.20\00:11:48.64
Tim: And I said, "That's me... "
00:11:48.67\00:11:50.17
I'm spending all this time
trying to mask my insecurities.
00:11:50.21\00:11:54.08
Jean: I find it
interesting, Jennifer,
00:11:54.14\00:11:56.41
your question about
having treated people with NPD
00:11:56.44\00:11:58.88
and as a Clinical Psychologist,
I have done that many times
00:11:58.91\00:12:01.82
and the biggest
challenge that I had was
00:12:01.85\00:12:03.79
what you said
about hurting others...
00:12:03.82\00:12:05.65
and yet, a lot of the clients
that I had at the time...
00:12:05.69\00:12:08.62
not being able to see
how they have hurt others...
00:12:08.66\00:12:11.49
whether family members
or friends or co-workers...
00:12:11.53\00:12:14.33
and so if you would...
00:12:14.36\00:12:15.70
if you could just
share a little bit more about
00:12:15.73\00:12:17.17
how you were able to recognize
00:12:17.20\00:12:18.70
that you were not
only hurting yourself,
00:12:18.73\00:12:20.40
but then, you were also
hurting people you love...
00:12:20.44\00:12:22.20
people you cared about
00:12:22.24\00:12:23.57
and maybe even some
folks you didn't know that well
00:12:23.61\00:12:25.64
but there was a blanket
of hurt that was going around
00:12:25.67\00:12:27.64
because of the ego.
00:12:27.68\00:12:29.01
Tim: Okay, let me try...
let me try to answer that...
00:12:29.04\00:12:30.85
go back to the
question that you asked
00:12:30.88\00:12:32.25
about "How did God reveal?"
00:12:32.28\00:12:33.62
As I began to replay
the video tape of my life,
00:12:33.65\00:12:38.22
I began to realize that there
were mileposts along the way
00:12:38.25\00:12:41.89
that were going to help me
00:12:41.92\00:12:43.26
and one of the
things that hit me was
00:12:43.29\00:12:44.93
going back to the
song we used to sing...
00:12:44.96\00:12:46.59
in Kindergarten in church...
00:12:46.63\00:12:48.50
"It's me, it's
me, it's me, O Lord,
00:12:48.53\00:12:50.33
standing in the
need of prayer... "
00:12:50.37\00:12:52.07
not my mother, not my father,
not my preacher, not my teacher"
00:12:52.10\00:12:54.20
so what I began to say is,
00:12:54.24\00:12:56.07
there's nobody else in my
universe that I can control,
00:12:56.10\00:12:59.67
but Tim Allston...
00:12:59.71\00:13:01.24
so it's got to
start with Tim Allston
00:13:01.28\00:13:03.88
to try to make those
corrections in my life,
00:13:03.91\00:13:06.45
you know, I can...
I can beg and plead
00:13:06.48\00:13:09.45
and control my wife... I
can threaten my daughter...
00:13:09.48\00:13:11.55
but ultimately, I
don't control them...
00:13:11.59\00:13:14.06
Jennifer: So I'm going to give
you the psycho-babble for that
00:13:14.09\00:13:17.03
it's... you went from an
external locus of control
00:13:17.09\00:13:19.79
to an internal locus of control
from... life happens to me...
00:13:19.83\00:13:24.53
to, "Wait a
minute, I have choices...
00:13:24.57\00:13:26.17
what can I change...
what is within my power
00:13:26.20\00:13:28.87
rather than focusing on what's
outside of my circle of power. "
00:13:28.90\00:13:31.71
Tim: Yeah, and I don't know
00:13:31.74\00:13:33.07
if I really totally answered
your question, Jean, or not
00:13:33.11\00:13:35.31
but one thing that's
happened to me in recovery
00:13:35.34\00:13:37.71
is... I play the
scenario of the disciples
00:13:37.75\00:13:42.22
at the Last
Supper when Jesus said,
00:13:42.25\00:13:44.45
"One of you is
going to betray me... "
00:13:44.49\00:13:46.62
and they all... 11 of them...
00:13:46.65\00:13:48.42
said, "Lord, is it I...?"
00:13:48.46\00:13:50.23
initially, Jesus
was talking about Judas,
00:13:50.26\00:13:53.56
but ultimately, it was
those other... eleven...
00:13:53.60\00:13:57.23
Jennifer: It was all of them.
00:13:57.27\00:13:58.80
Tim: You know, and so, I
go through every scenario...
00:13:58.83\00:14:00.47
almost by
default... "Lord, is it I...?"
00:14:00.50\00:14:03.30
and typically, the
answer is, "Yes, Tim... "
00:14:03.34\00:14:06.07
typically the
answer is, "Yes... "
00:14:06.11\00:14:08.14
and I can start from there,
if something's wrong with you,
00:14:08.21\00:14:10.18
something's wrong
with you Christina,
00:14:10.21\00:14:11.55
there's nothing
I can do about you,
00:14:11.58\00:14:12.91
but I can start with Tim
Allston and with God's help
00:14:12.95\00:14:15.55
and that's what
ego-holism recovering is about,
00:14:15.58\00:14:18.49
ego-holism says,
"I'm going to do this... "
00:14:18.52\00:14:21.12
ego-holism recovery says,
00:14:21.19\00:14:22.69
"You can't cure it,
solve it or eliminate it...
00:14:22.72\00:14:25.26
but when you partner with God...
00:14:25.29\00:14:27.03
the two of you
become a majority. "
00:14:27.06\00:14:28.73
David: That's key for me
because as you were talking,
00:14:28.76\00:14:31.33
one of the questions I was going
to have... but you answered it
00:14:31.37\00:14:33.23
was, "How did Tim
Allston control Tim Allston?"
00:14:33.27\00:14:36.07
Because Tim Allston
can't control Tim Allston...
00:14:36.10\00:14:38.84
and then you
gave us the answer...
00:14:38.87\00:14:40.21
you said,
"Through Christ in me...
00:14:40.24\00:14:41.81
Tim: It took
decades to learn that.
00:14:41.84\00:14:43.38
David: "hope of glory was
able to control Tim Allston... "
00:14:43.41\00:14:45.81
Tim: It is so
interesting, I mean,
00:14:45.85\00:14:48.18
on the simplest thing...
I mean, research tells us
00:14:48.22\00:14:51.29
that the average human being
00:14:51.32\00:14:52.65
makes over 15,000
decisions every day,
00:14:52.69\00:14:54.56
I can tell... as I read
"The Great Controversy" book
00:14:54.59\00:14:57.39
that every decision
we make boils down to
00:14:57.43\00:14:59.79
"Are you with
the Prince of Light
00:14:59.83\00:15:01.16
or with the Prince of Darkness?"
00:15:01.20\00:15:02.53
Jennifer: Yeah, and
we go back and forth
00:15:02.56\00:15:05.53
so none of us is really
on one side or the other
00:15:05.57\00:15:07.77
at this point but
there will come a time
00:15:07.80\00:15:09.37
when people take their
stand on one side or the other.
00:15:09.40\00:15:11.44
Tim: It's not won and
done... I wish it were.
00:15:11.47\00:15:12.94
Jennifer: So, I
believe that Counselors
00:15:12.97\00:15:15.18
actually work with
people on character development
00:15:15.21\00:15:17.95
and even if they're not
religious people, per se,
00:15:17.98\00:15:20.68
we can actually help them
00:15:20.72\00:15:22.05
in their
preparation for Jesus' coming.
00:15:22.08\00:15:24.09
you know, maybe the
religion will come later
00:15:24.15\00:15:26.15
but what would you say is to us
00:15:26.19\00:15:28.06
as to how to work with
people that have a pride issue
00:15:28.09\00:15:31.89
and they're
sabotaging themselves
00:15:31.93\00:15:34.10
and the evidence is there
but they're not seeing it,
00:15:34.13\00:15:36.73
how do we get past that defense?
00:15:36.77\00:15:38.10
Don't you guys
want to know, like...?
00:15:38.13\00:15:39.90
Jean: Absolutely.
00:15:39.93\00:15:41.27
Jennifer: How do we
work more effectively
00:15:41.30\00:15:42.64
with hard cases like you...
00:15:42.67\00:15:44.01
Tim: Well, I have a
seven-step recovery process
00:15:44.04\00:15:48.34
because I'm an ego-holic,
00:15:48.38\00:15:50.45
I call it, "The
Ten Commandments"
00:15:50.48\00:15:52.21
All: Laughter...
00:15:52.25\00:15:56.15
Tim: And... because
there are seven steps
00:15:56.18\00:15:58.19
and there are
three steps before that.
00:15:58.22\00:15:59.89
David: So it's not
the Ten Commandments...
00:15:59.92\00:16:01.56
Tim: It's my own
Ten Commandments.
00:16:01.59\00:16:03.09
The first step is:
Target the Problem.
00:16:03.12\00:16:04.46
It's not going to be a problem
to you calling it a problem.
00:16:04.49\00:16:06.83
David: Identify it...
00:16:06.90\00:16:08.23
Tim: Yeah, identify it,
00:16:08.26\00:16:09.60
you've got to put
a bull's eye on it...
00:16:09.63\00:16:10.97
Jennifer: You got to admit it...
Tim: You got to admit it...
00:16:11.00\00:16:12.67
Bob Schieffer said,
when they diagnosed him...
00:16:12.73\00:16:14.30
Bob Schieffer of
Face the Nation...
00:16:14.34\00:16:15.74
when he got
diagnosed in 2003 with cancer,
00:16:15.77\00:16:18.01
he said the
toughest problem was saying,
00:16:18.04\00:16:20.28
"I have cancer... "
00:16:20.31\00:16:21.64
that's where it starts...
00:16:21.68\00:16:23.01
that's "T" of
Take it to the top...
00:16:23.04\00:16:24.88
"O" is to own the problem...
00:16:24.91\00:16:26.25
"Not my mother, not my
father, but it's me O Lord...
00:16:26.28\00:16:27.85
standing in the
need of prayer... "
00:16:27.88\00:16:29.22
the person has a pride issue,
have them define what "pride" is
00:16:29.25\00:16:32.02
pride is self-exaltation...
so even if you have...
00:16:32.05\00:16:35.52
even if you have
pride in your school colors
00:16:35.56\00:16:38.99
or pride in your sports team,
it's all about self-exaltation.
00:16:39.03\00:16:42.40
Now, in one of your
earlier shows, Jennifer,
00:16:42.43\00:16:45.30
you all dealt with
issue of conflict...
00:16:45.33\00:16:46.70
and you said that Sister
White talks about the fact
00:16:46.74\00:16:49.47
that self-development is
where it begins... it does...
00:16:49.50\00:16:51.91
the problem with most of
us from my observation is...
00:16:51.94\00:16:54.28
we stay at
self-development too long...
00:16:54.31\00:16:58.15
we've got to view it
like I view Ellis Island...
00:16:58.18\00:17:00.82
Ellis Island is where
people came from Eastern Europe
00:17:00.85\00:17:03.59
to disembark...
00:17:03.62\00:17:05.09
but they couldn't
put up pictures...
00:17:05.15\00:17:06.79
they couldn't plant
flowers, they couldn't plant...
00:17:06.86\00:17:08.52
because the job was
to get in and get out...
00:17:08.56\00:17:10.36
too many of us get
stuck at self-help...
00:17:10.39\00:17:11.96
too many of us get
stuck at self-confidence...
00:17:11.99\00:17:13.93
self gets you started...
00:17:13.96\00:17:15.60
but it's not
where you need to go...
00:17:15.63\00:17:16.97
you need to move
from self-confidence
00:17:17.00\00:17:18.33
to God-Confidence...
00:17:18.37\00:17:19.70
Self-esteem to God-esteem.
00:17:19.73\00:17:21.07
I mean, I'll start
with self-confidence,
00:17:21.10\00:17:22.64
but I've got to
kick it to God...
00:17:22.67\00:17:25.04
because He's the
undefeated partner.
00:17:25.07\00:17:27.38
David: Okay, so what I
hear you saying is that
00:17:27.41\00:17:28.78
God helps me to
identify my problem
00:17:28.84\00:17:31.55
and then I've got to
give that problem to God...
00:17:31.61\00:17:33.98
not handle it myself...
00:17:34.02\00:17:35.35
Tim: Yes. David: Okay.
00:17:35.38\00:17:36.72
Tim: It's not a mirror...
it's the two-way mirror...
00:17:36.75\00:17:38.25
and every time I
pick up my Bible,
00:17:38.29\00:17:40.66
I'm finding myself in
one of those characters...
00:17:40.69\00:17:43.59
and that's the beauty of God...
00:17:43.63\00:17:45.53
that the more I
dig into His Word...
00:17:45.59\00:17:48.40
which is the love
letter to the human race...
00:17:48.43\00:17:50.00
the more I dig into it...
00:17:50.07\00:17:51.40
the more I see just
how unworthy I am...
00:17:51.43\00:17:53.74
and that's why I spell my
name with lower-case letters...
00:17:53.80\00:17:57.44
I feel so insecure... I
feel so insignificant...
00:17:57.47\00:18:01.81
stacked against
my heavenly Father.
00:18:01.84\00:18:03.65
All: Hmmm... hmmm... hmmm...
00:18:03.68\00:18:05.01
Jennifer: What...
Jean, what typically happens
00:18:05.05\00:18:07.98
to people with
narcissistic personalities?
00:18:08.02\00:18:10.69
They typically
end up incarcerated
00:18:10.72\00:18:12.09
or do you see a
disproportionate number of them?
00:18:12.12\00:18:13.66
Jean: I see a
disproportionate number of them.
00:18:13.69\00:18:15.22
Jennifer: I just want you
to know how lucky you are.
00:18:15.26\00:18:16.79
Tim: Or... or it's a foretaste.
David: Of things to come...
00:18:16.83\00:18:22.06
Jennifer: We going to continue
to lift you up in prayer Brother
00:18:22.10\00:18:23.73
Tim: Thank you... Christina,
you're going to pray for me?
00:18:23.77\00:18:25.37
Okay, thank you.
00:18:25.40\00:18:26.94
David: So you thought it over.
00:18:26.97\00:18:28.47
Jean: Because... because
as a Forensic Psychologist
00:18:28.50\00:18:32.81
obviously I deal with a lot of
folks that go in and out of jail
00:18:32.87\00:18:35.61
so your premise
is very well-stated
00:18:35.64\00:18:38.31
and that is because
if you are really focused
00:18:38.35\00:18:41.18
and invested in keeping
yourself at the level you think
00:18:41.22\00:18:44.25
people want you to be
00:18:44.29\00:18:45.85
or you're trying to
portray a certain thing,
00:18:45.89\00:18:47.56
you will do
anything to stay there...
00:18:47.59\00:18:49.26
and so, many of the
clients that I've had...
00:18:49.29\00:18:51.29
will risk it all
00:18:51.33\00:18:53.16
to keep the persona...
00:18:53.19\00:18:54.63
the perception...
Jennifer: Their freedom...
00:18:54.66\00:18:56.63
Jean: Yes... and so...
including their freedom
00:18:56.67\00:18:58.63
and so they will
hurt people to keep quiet,
00:18:58.67\00:19:00.47
they will do things to
keep them at the same level...
00:19:00.50\00:19:02.84
they will do
things and say things
00:19:02.87\00:19:05.51
that make people believe
00:19:05.57\00:19:06.91
what they are...
that they're not...
00:19:06.94\00:19:08.61
if you understand
what I'm saying...
00:19:08.64\00:19:10.51
whatever it is that
they've invested in...
00:19:10.55\00:19:11.95
whatever they have...
00:19:11.98\00:19:13.31
they will do anything
to keep it at that level
00:19:13.35\00:19:14.68
and to keep the truth
00:19:14.72\00:19:16.05
underneath that
insecurity you're talking about.
00:19:16.08\00:19:18.82
Tim: But here's the
thing, so their idea is no good.
00:19:18.85\00:19:21.66
David: So they're
still in prison...
00:19:21.69\00:19:23.86
the prison of self...
00:19:23.89\00:19:25.33
Jennifer: Yeah, they just end
up validating that in prison...
00:19:25.36\00:19:28.73
Jean: Imagine this...
imagine somebody comes...
00:19:28.76\00:19:31.07
imagine somebody
coming before you
00:19:31.10\00:19:32.60
that isn't... that's locked
up that still is maintaining
00:19:32.63\00:19:35.90
the stories
before they got locked up
00:19:35.94\00:19:37.74
as if they still are true...
00:19:37.77\00:19:39.44
not admitting that
that life and that situation
00:19:39.47\00:19:42.28
didn't really happen.
00:19:42.31\00:19:43.65
Jennifer: With that much
evidence... still doesn't
00:19:43.68\00:19:45.08
cause them to sort of
cave in and reevaluate.
00:19:45.11\00:19:46.61
Jean: They never cave
in... they never cave in.
00:19:46.65\00:19:47.98
Christina: Interesting how
we tend to go to extremes...
00:19:48.02\00:19:50.35
we are very dichotomous...
00:19:50.39\00:19:51.72
I don't know if
it's just America...
00:19:51.75\00:19:53.32
Jennifer: No, no,
no... it's humanity.
00:19:53.36\00:19:54.99
Christina: Right,
we're very dichotomous...
00:19:55.02\00:19:56.52
we are so insecure
00:19:56.56\00:19:57.89
so we overcorrect
as we do in driving
00:19:57.93\00:19:59.73
when we're trying
to avoid an obstacle,
00:19:59.79\00:20:01.56
we tend to end up flipping...
00:20:01.60\00:20:03.10
when we're trying to
get through the obstacle,
00:20:03.16\00:20:04.57
so, we go to
the... way extreme...
00:20:04.60\00:20:06.60
to trying to fix that
00:20:06.63\00:20:08.34
but what I love
about God is that
00:20:08.37\00:20:10.24
when we follow His Word...
00:20:10.27\00:20:11.94
and it talks about not
comparing ourselves to others
00:20:11.97\00:20:14.31
because that's one of
the things that can cause us
00:20:14.34\00:20:16.68
to either have... feel insecure
00:20:16.71\00:20:18.61
or feel very prideful...
00:20:18.65\00:20:21.08
when we compare
ourselves to Him...
00:20:21.12\00:20:23.25
when we compare
ourselves to Him,
00:20:23.28\00:20:25.02
then we can see
our true condition,
00:20:25.05\00:20:26.69
we don't have
blind spots anymore,
00:20:26.72\00:20:28.29
and we're able to be transformed
as you're describing.
00:20:28.32\00:20:31.39
David: Amen.
00:20:31.43\00:20:32.76
Tim: And the thing that
you point... I loved about...
00:20:32.79\00:20:34.43
people you can
count... soar, soar, soar...
00:20:34.46\00:20:36.23
leadership magnifies defects...
00:20:36.26\00:20:39.00
All: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:20:39.03\00:20:40.70
Tim: Leadership
magnifies defects.
00:20:40.74\00:20:42.47
David: Explain that...
explain that some more...
00:20:42.50\00:20:44.01
Tim: As we go up...
00:20:44.04\00:20:46.34
what we don't
correct at the early stages,
00:20:46.37\00:20:49.74
comes out even more
and more and more...
00:20:49.81\00:20:53.11
Jennifer: Is it just that
people are seeing it better
00:20:53.15\00:20:54.62
because we're more visible
00:20:54.65\00:20:55.98
or is it because it's a
more intense expression of it...
00:20:56.02\00:20:58.79
Tim: The answer is
yes... to both... both... yes...
00:20:58.82\00:21:01.96
I mean, if I may...
00:21:01.99\00:21:03.69
Bill Cosby didn't become
that way... all of a sudden...
00:21:03.73\00:21:08.13
Jared Fogle the
spokesman for Subway
00:21:08.16\00:21:10.67
didn't become that
way all of a sudden,
00:21:10.70\00:21:13.10
our President didn't become
that way all of a sudden...
00:21:13.13\00:21:16.00
but as you move
to upper echelons
00:21:16.04\00:21:17.91
and you get to that
thinner rarified air...
00:21:17.94\00:21:19.64
I've now written a book...
00:21:19.67\00:21:22.04
it leads me to a whole
'nother class of people...
00:21:22.08\00:21:24.81
I'm now an author... more
of my warts are showing...
00:21:24.88\00:21:27.52
more of my potholes are
showing than ever before...
00:21:27.55\00:21:30.15
and that's what I want...
00:21:30.19\00:21:31.55
because I got to get
to heaven to see His face.
00:21:31.59\00:21:34.02
Jennifer: What is the hope here,
00:21:34.06\00:21:35.86
if you know that
you have an ego problem
00:21:35.89\00:21:38.49
or if you're on the
other end of the spectrum
00:21:38.53\00:21:40.16
where you have low self-esteem
00:21:40.20\00:21:41.53
and you feel like
you're not good enough...
00:21:41.56\00:21:42.90
because we've agreed
that's the same foundation...
00:21:42.93\00:21:44.63
it's still the desire to measure
against other people positively,
00:21:44.67\00:21:49.40
what do you do?
00:21:49.44\00:21:50.77
Tim: Number one...
Don't trust yourself...
00:21:50.81\00:21:54.54
you don't trust yourself...
00:21:54.58\00:21:56.71
my slogan is...
"Less Tim... more Him...
00:21:56.75\00:22:00.08
less Tim... more Him... "
00:22:00.12\00:22:01.45
Jennifer: It's a good thing
your name rhymes with "Him. "
00:22:01.48\00:22:03.59
Tim: It helps... it
helps... thank my mother...
00:22:03.62\00:22:05.52
but the other thing you do
is you turn to the Bible...
00:22:05.55\00:22:08.49
in Step 1 in Book one,
00:22:08.52\00:22:10.76
I will talk about
"Truth tellers... "
00:22:10.79\00:22:12.76
Truth tellers
are those things...
00:22:12.79\00:22:14.73
people... things and
activities that reveal us to us
00:22:14.76\00:22:17.77
in a very discomforting way...
00:22:17.80\00:22:19.90
the Bible... when
you look at the Bible...
00:22:19.93\00:22:21.94
you say to yourself,
"Do I have an ego problem?"
00:22:21.97\00:22:23.37
The Bible says, "Oh yeah... "
00:22:23.41\00:22:24.74
You know, you talk to
your spouse, your kids,
00:22:24.77\00:22:26.91
your co-workers...
your bowling buddies...
00:22:26.94\00:22:30.65
they have been
drained by us all this time...
00:22:30.68\00:22:34.32
you've got to ask them...
but you stay in the Word...
00:22:34.35\00:22:37.59
you learn not to
your own understanding...
00:22:37.62\00:22:39.99
it's not a done deal...
00:22:40.02\00:22:41.42
every day you've got to
keep coming up to bat...
00:22:41.49\00:22:43.32
Jennifer: And talk to us about
your wife... how did she...
00:22:43.36\00:22:45.76
you said, "She
takes no prisoners... "
00:22:45.79\00:22:47.36
what... was it her character
00:22:47.40\00:22:49.86
and if she's committed but
also willing to confront...
00:22:49.90\00:22:52.80
or is it just the
nature of marriage
00:22:52.83\00:22:54.50
that you're stuff comes out?
00:22:54.54\00:22:56.54
Tim: I think it's
the nature of marriage...
00:22:56.57\00:22:57.91
Jean and I were talking earlier
00:22:57.94\00:22:59.84
because he's a
native Philadelphian
00:22:59.87\00:23:01.21
and I'm a native Bostonian
00:23:01.24\00:23:02.58
and how much we both
hate each other's teams...
00:23:02.61\00:23:04.18
who else will pay
the Los Angeles Lakers...
00:23:04.21\00:23:06.01
David: That's okay...
00:23:06.05\00:23:07.38
Tim: And so what
God gave... humility...
00:23:07.42\00:23:08.85
you have to marry a
person who's from Los Angeles...
00:23:08.88\00:23:11.39
who played basketball in college
with Magic Johnson's sisters...
00:23:11.42\00:23:14.72
whose parents will
go to Lakers' games...
00:23:14.76\00:23:16.56
I said, "God... your sense of
humor, God, is killing me... "
00:23:16.62\00:23:19.16
Jennifer: But you had a choice
in the matter, didn't you?
00:23:19.19\00:23:20.80
Tim: Somewhat...
00:23:20.83\00:23:22.16
Jennifer: It wasn't
an arranged marriage.
00:23:22.20\00:23:23.67
Tim: For sure... this
is what ego-holism does...
00:23:23.70\00:23:25.03
ego-holism said...
my wife is sandpaper...
00:23:25.07\00:23:26.77
she loved me the wrong way...
00:23:26.80\00:23:28.14
"ego-holism covering"
said... "She's sandpaper...
00:23:28.17\00:23:30.14
what she's doing is
smoothing your edges... "
00:23:30.17\00:23:32.11
Jennifer: Oh I see, so,
what did she do specifically...
00:23:32.14\00:23:34.61
did she just face
you with your stuff
00:23:34.64\00:23:36.64
or threaten to leave?
00:23:36.71\00:23:38.55
Tim: No, no, no... she hasn't
threatened to leave yet...
00:23:38.58\00:23:40.55
and after 22 years, she
hasn't threatened to leave
00:23:40.58\00:23:42.58
but she will confront me...
00:23:42.62\00:23:44.22
she'll say, "What
did you mean by that,
00:23:44.25\00:23:47.06
did you mean to say that?"
00:23:47.12\00:23:48.56
and I'll go... I'll be
mad but I'll go and pray
00:23:48.59\00:23:51.79
and the next thing I'm saying,
"You know, you were right... "
00:23:51.83\00:23:54.00
that's painful to admit
error... it's painful...
00:23:54.03\00:23:56.73
you know... but... I
got to get to heaven...
00:23:56.77\00:23:59.40
Jennifer: So I mentioned that
more men have NPD than women
00:23:59.43\00:24:03.67
and I think it's
related to testosterone
00:24:03.71\00:24:06.07
because
testosterone is responsible
00:24:06.11\00:24:08.44
for the feeling of confidence,
00:24:08.48\00:24:09.81
so you think more...
00:24:09.84\00:24:11.18
you know, kind of
chemically-induced confidence...
00:24:11.21\00:24:12.81
you're going to
have more pride...
00:24:12.85\00:24:15.42
I think women
too... what's that?
00:24:15.45\00:24:17.95
Christina: With the
expectations of Society...
00:24:17.99\00:24:19.65
Jennifer: And the
expectations of Society...
00:24:19.69\00:24:21.29
socializing as well...
00:24:21.32\00:24:22.66
I think that women
do a terrible disservice
00:24:22.69\00:24:24.89
that... I think
they're kind of...
00:24:24.93\00:24:26.49
their role is often
to help their husbands
00:24:26.53\00:24:30.37
and help check
excessive ego issues...
00:24:30.40\00:24:33.94
I think that's often the case
00:24:33.97\00:24:35.30
and I think they do
a terrible disservice
00:24:35.34\00:24:36.67
when they won't confront,
00:24:36.71\00:24:38.04
but I'm saying
this as a woman...
00:24:38.07\00:24:39.41
it's uncomfortable to confront,
00:24:39.44\00:24:40.78
because we are so
relationally wired...
00:24:40.81\00:24:42.78
we want to hang on
to that relationship...
00:24:42.81\00:24:45.08
we want everybody around
us to be well-fed... happy...
00:24:45.11\00:24:47.65
cheerful... we don't
want any emotional distress...
00:24:47.68\00:24:50.19
and so, because
we're so empathic,
00:24:50.25\00:24:52.39
we end up avoiding confrontation
00:24:52.42\00:24:54.49
because it does cause...
at least temporary discomfort
00:24:54.52\00:24:57.16
and so, bless your wife
00:24:57.19\00:24:59.13
for being willing to
deal with that discomfort...
00:24:59.16\00:25:00.90
tell her... I love her...
00:25:00.96\00:25:02.30
Tim: Don't say that...
00:25:02.33\00:25:03.67
she's going to get
that statement notarized...
00:25:03.70\00:25:05.07
David: Is your ego at work now?
00:25:05.10\00:25:07.77
Tim: Oh... talk to my agent...
00:25:07.80\00:25:10.41
David: Okay...
00:25:10.44\00:25:12.01
Tim: That's why
I've entitled this book:
00:25:12.04\00:25:15.41
"7 Steps to Manage Ego Problems"
00:25:15.44\00:25:16.78
the sub-title says:
00:25:16.81\00:25:18.15
"The How-To Guide
for Somebody Else"
00:25:18.18\00:25:19.65
and then most people
pick it up... they say,
00:25:19.68\00:25:21.68
"Oh, my husband needs this... "
00:25:21.72\00:25:23.32
I would go... nodding
head... David: Yeah...
00:25:23.35\00:25:24.75
Christina: I was
just wondering...
00:25:24.82\00:25:26.15
I kind of want to go back to
what you have said originally...
00:25:26.19\00:25:28.22
you said that the
first thing is to admit
00:25:28.26\00:25:31.49
that you have an ego
issue... and I'm just wondering,
00:25:31.53\00:25:33.29
how did you get to that...
how did you get to admitting...
00:25:33.33\00:25:36.50
like how long did it
take for you to admit
00:25:36.53\00:25:39.33
and how did that process go?
00:25:39.37\00:25:40.70
Tim: I said,
"Something's wrong... "
00:25:40.74\00:25:43.41
I had just become
an entrepreneur...
00:25:43.44\00:25:45.87
early-stage entrepreneur...
00:25:45.91\00:25:47.24
got a good big contract
00:25:47.28\00:25:48.61
to do the PR
marketing for a company...
00:25:48.64\00:25:50.68
I was rolling... in six
weeks... I got canned...
00:25:50.71\00:25:54.85
and the client said,
00:25:54.88\00:25:57.45
"Tim, you needed
help with this project
00:25:57.49\00:26:00.56
and trying to be...
doing it all yourself...
00:26:00.59\00:26:01.92
you needed help but you
wouldn't ask for help...
00:26:01.96\00:26:03.96
firing you is just
going to be the best thing
00:26:04.03\00:26:05.99
that ever happened to you
as an early-stage entrepreneur,
00:26:06.03\00:26:07.83
talent is not your problem... "
00:26:07.86\00:26:09.90
and I said, "If it ain't
talent, then what is it?"
00:26:09.93\00:26:13.13
That... that question...
created the question...
00:26:13.17\00:26:15.40
Jennifer: Hmmm...
David: Yeah... Jean: Yeah...
00:26:15.44\00:26:17.61
Jennifer: You can't
really fake character, you know.
00:26:17.64\00:26:19.67
Tim: No...
00:26:19.71\00:26:21.04
Jennifer: You can have
all the talent in the world
00:26:21.08\00:26:22.41
but there's going to come a
point where you need character
00:26:22.44\00:26:24.31
and you can't fake
that it has to be real...
00:26:24.35\00:26:27.15
you can fake
talent... or you can fake...
00:26:27.18\00:26:29.92
you can be
charming or whatever...
00:26:29.95\00:26:31.29
David: And the genius
of God in all of this...
00:26:31.32\00:26:33.56
and in all of our lives...
00:26:33.59\00:26:34.92
and this is the story...
this is what I'm hearing...
00:26:34.96\00:26:37.09
is that God was
with you in your journey
00:26:37.13\00:26:39.36
trying to get your
attention all along the way...
00:26:39.39\00:26:42.43
and at some point...
and it happens to us all...
00:26:42.46\00:26:45.00
we do confront ourselves...
00:26:45.03\00:26:46.37
and the Bible
says this, it says,
00:26:46.40\00:26:48.47
"Therefore humble yourselves
under the mighty hand of God,
00:26:48.50\00:26:50.97
that He may
exalt you in due time:
00:26:51.01\00:26:53.51
Cast all your cares upon
Him; for He cares for you. "
00:26:53.58\00:26:57.48
Jennifer: So you experienced
humility in the context of love,
00:26:57.55\00:27:00.52
it's not, like,
"You're an idiot,
00:27:00.55\00:27:01.88
you're proud... we hate you... "
00:27:01.92\00:27:03.55
it's, "I love you,
you've got a problem. "
00:27:03.59\00:27:05.62
David: Yeah, and
we cast it to God.
00:27:05.65\00:27:07.06
Jennifer: That's right.
Christina: And I think too...
00:27:07.12\00:27:08.62
Jennifer: And we
humble ourselves.
00:27:08.66\00:27:09.99
David: Yes.
00:27:10.03\00:27:11.36
Christina: I think we
really have to make sure we pray
00:27:11.39\00:27:12.73
that God brings
the appropriate people
00:27:12.76\00:27:14.66
to ask those kinds of questions
00:27:14.70\00:27:17.73
or I guess, he
didn't ask you a question
00:27:17.80\00:27:19.30
but he made a statement,
00:27:19.33\00:27:20.67
and... because
sometimes family members...
00:27:20.70\00:27:22.54
or sometimes those close to you
00:27:22.57\00:27:24.24
tend to be not able to
00:27:24.27\00:27:26.07
really be able to say
the message that's needed.
00:27:26.11\00:27:29.71
Jennifer: So, I
would like to issue
00:27:29.74\00:27:31.08
a little homework assignment
00:27:31.11\00:27:32.81
for those of you that have
been taking in this Program,
00:27:32.85\00:27:34.62
I would like you to ask
00:27:34.65\00:27:36.02
those closest to
you... those that you trust
00:27:36.05\00:27:38.39
that you know will
tell you the truth,
00:27:38.42\00:27:40.89
"Do I have an ego
problem, am I proud,
00:27:40.92\00:27:43.36
or am I draining you
because of my insecurities?"
00:27:43.39\00:27:45.59
Go home and ask them that
00:27:45.63\00:27:46.96
because pride
goes before a fall...
00:27:47.00\00:27:48.33
it was pride that started
the sin problem in the universe,
00:27:48.36\00:27:51.03
Tim has nailed this issue...
00:27:51.07\00:27:52.63
I'm so thankful...
keep his ministry in prayer,
00:27:52.67\00:27:55.04
pray that God keeps him humble
00:27:55.07\00:27:56.77
and keeps all of
us humble as well.
00:27:56.81\00:27:58.57
God bless you,
thank you for joining us.
00:27:58.61\00:28:00.14