Welcome to A
Multitude of Counselors
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where we tell our stories
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because the last
chapter is healing.
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We're going to be talking
today about: Beyond Bulimia.
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Bulimia is an eating disorder
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characterized by undue
focus on weight and food
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and bingeing...
purging behaviors
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which includes
self-induced vomiting,
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laxatives and exercise.
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Prevalence is...
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across the US...
about 1.5 percent of women
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and 0.5 percent
of men have bulimia.
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There is no isolated
cause to this illness
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but I think, the media
has a lot to do with it
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because we see a
couple of things happening
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in the media more and more,
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one is that the ideal of beauty
is far thinner than the average
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and the real woman is
heavy... is getting heavier
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as the ideal of beauty is
getting thinner and thinner.
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We also hear a
message in the media often
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about hyper-palatable foods
or, what we call, junk foods
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and how wonderful they are
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and so we're just bombarded
with these conflicting messages
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and it sets up a lot of
stress in women's minds.
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The prognosis is that
it is a serious illness...
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suicide is higher
among people with bulimia.
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Early aggressive intervention
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is the best way to
approach this illness
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and there is much
more positive outcome
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if it's done
early on in the game.
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Bulimia responds
to both talk therapy
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and antidepressant therapy.
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We find that people with bulimia
are what we call, "ego-dystonic"
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the illness is
dissonant to their self...
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they don't like
having the illness...
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they feel ashamed of
it... they're embarrassed of it
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whereas anorexia which
is another eating disorder
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is an "ego-syntonic" disorder
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meaning it is in
sync with the ego...
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in fact, people with anorexia
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are often happy that they
have it... strangely enough,
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so, as a result, people with
bulimia often have mood issues,
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they're depressed about it
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and anti-depressants
can sometimes lift the mood
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and give them enough
impetus to get out of the cycle
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but then, there's always God
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and what He can
do in our experience
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and we have an
amazing story today
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from my dear
friend, Elise Harboldt,
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she's going to be sharing
with us today, her story...
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and I want to introduce
her, she's a freelance writer...
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creative... what
do you call yourself?
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I'm a Communicator.
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Okay, she's a Communicator and
currently you live in Oregon...
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part time in
California, part time?
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Elise: Little bit...
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Jennifer: Yeah, she's creative
in the way she lives too
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because she moves around a lot
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and does a lot of
interesting things.
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We're so thankful you're here,
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I'm just grateful you're willing
to come and share your story.
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We also have our
Licensed Professional Counselor,
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Shelly Wiggins from Michigan,
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Marriage and Family Therapist,
Paul Coneff from Texas,
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Professional Counselor
Christina Cecotto from Georgia.
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So glad each one of
you is here as well.
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So, Elise, let's
start with your story,
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when did it all start?
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Sure, so, I think...
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I like to think of
it starting in the womb
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because it says in Psalm 139
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that God knit us
together in our mothers' wombs
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and that we're
fearfully and wonderfully made
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but because we're
not aware of that,
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we run into different stories
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where that's not part of the way
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that we're thinking
and living our lives
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so, the real problem
started when I was about 12,
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I was... I
moved a lot growing up
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and definitely had
family that cared about me
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but I did not feel
like normal and accepted
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and just like... as
part of the peer group,
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and so, I became convinced
which was really easy to do
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as a young
woman, that if I was...
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if I had the perfect body...
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then I would be
loved and accepted
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it was like this "easy
fix" to just wanting to be okay.
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So, I started...
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my journey started actually
with anorexia, not bulimia.
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I was
restricting at 12 and 13...
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and I had been
relatively thin to begin with
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and it quickly spiraled into
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just something
really out of control.
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I was
hospitalized a couple of times,
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this is a picture right
before I went into the hospital
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with my grandparents
and... like you said...
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there's a...
just... almost a euphoria
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and an excitement
about having this illness
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because, the belief is
that there's a goal inside
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and that there's
love in that goal,
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so, I was very
resistant to getting help
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and getting treatment
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because I felt like that
was just being... you know...
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like, taken away from me...
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where this is, like, clearly
the solution to my problem
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and I worked so
hard towards that,
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so I was just very resistant
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and the next picture is
taken from my art journal
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when I was in the hospital
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and I think it really speaks to
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the way that the
enemy gets into our minds
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I wrote... this
is a picture of me
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and I said, "Will somebody
please give this girl freedom?"
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But by freedom, I didn't
mean freedom from being sick,
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I meant freedom to be
as thin as I wanted to be
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where, now I look
back and I'm like...
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"Oh my goodness, I'm
just so grateful to be free
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but I'm not free in
the way that I thought... "
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It just crushes me
inside to see that picture...
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don't you just...
oh... when I see you
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and I know you so well and
I love you and care about you
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and I just see you and want to
just... like a wounded bird...
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how did you get out
of it, what happened?
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Well, I had the
opportunity to go to academy
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and I had to make a decision,
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"Do I want to be skinny?"
or "Do I want to go to school?"
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Because they said,
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"You have to weigh 115 pounds
in order to go to academy. "
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And I thought
long and hard about it,
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and I just really
believe God gave me that grace
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to decide that I wanted to go
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but I still thought in my mind,
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"Well, as soon as I'm 18... I'm
just going to lose the weight. "
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While I was in Academy,
the Dean there, J.P. Mathis,
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was such a special lady
and she was teaching NEWSTART
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for part of the chapels,
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so every week we'll learn about
nutrition, exercise, water...
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all the different health habits
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and I remember... that
was really the first time
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I'd see the big view
of the health message
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and I thought, "Whoa,
God has a health plan for me
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and He probably...
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that probably doesn't
include an eating disorder... "
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so that's where
I had to make a...
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I had to struggle because
it was like this conviction
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that, you know,
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that part of my identity
wasn't part of God's plan
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and so, even
though I had already
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kind of recovered weightwise...
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that's when I made the decision,
like, "I'm going to recover"
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because it's my decision
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and not because
somebody is forcing me to. "
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Jennifer: And
isn't this what they...
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Shelly, isn't that
the way they treat...
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particularly anorexia,
they get your weight up,
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they don't even try to work with
the cognitive stuff until...
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Shelly: The re-feeding
process has to take place
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in order to deal
with the depression
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because normally,
they're co-existing morbidly
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so if you can't
get a person re-fed...
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then their brain
isn't going to be working
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to make the
cognitive decision to say,
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"Yeah, I'm going to embrace
life I'm going to choose life,
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I'm going to
embrace my spirituality
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and invite Jesus in
to this process... "
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so, first things
first, we got to re-feed...
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Jennifer: The brain
is a physical organ,
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it has to be
nourished to function,
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and so, "Talk
Therapy" at that point
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is going to be useless, so,
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that's kind of how
it worked out for you
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because you get
back your strength
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and then, a little ways
down the road, you realize...
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you see this vision of health
and you decide to embrace it.
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Right, and yet, it
can be really challenging
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because if... like I remember
as I was getting better,
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people... I mean...
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just not getting better...
but gaining weight, people said:
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"Oh, you look so much
better, you look so healthy... "
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well, that to me, that
just means, "You're fat"
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and so, we need to be careful
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to not view a
healthy weight as health...
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because there are many people
that are at a healthy weight
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that have an eating disorder.
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Jennifer: Hmmm...
hmmm... that's right.
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Paul: Because
they're hearing our words...
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we're trying to affirm
them, "Be positive... "
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but they're hearing the words...
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our words...
through their filter...
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through their
negative thought patterns
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and negative identities.
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Christina: Through
their cognitive distortions.
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Elise: Yeah, right.
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Jennifer: And
through the false standard
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that you're laboring under,
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which is, you
have to be "stick-thin"
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and basically be
underfed and you're...
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if that's your
standard, someone says,
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"Oh, you look great,
you put on some weight... "
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it sounds like you
failed that standard, so...
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Elise: Yeah...
yeah... Jennifer: Wow!
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Shelly: Do you ever
remember praying a prayer
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"God give me the eyes to see
myself, the way you see me... "
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to be able to get that cognitive
distortion turned around.
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Elise: More
recently, when I was anorexic,
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I so identified with that
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and so believed that that
was my ticket to being loved,
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that I actually stopped
praying and I stopped singing
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and I was like...
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"Well, I'm not allowed
to be happy if I'm fat... "
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like, "I'm not allowed
to be enjoying myself... "
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it made me feel like I
was better at being sick
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if I could, like,
punish myself by not doing it
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and I remember, one time,
something really funny happened
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and I laughed...
and that was like,
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"Oooooh... " like,
feeling guilty for laughing...
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Jennifer: For laughing...?
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Elise: At that time,
no, but more recently...
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and we're going to talk
a little bit later about...
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like the "body-image healing"
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which very much
has been separate
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from the actual
recovery of weight.
00:10:08.87\00:10:10.47
Jennifer: So you
went from anorexia
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to somewhere down the
road... got into bulimia.
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Elise: Yeah...
right... well, before...
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before I talk about that, I
just want to share something
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that I think was a "God thing"
00:10:19.88\00:10:21.68
so when you invited
me to be on the Program,
00:10:21.75\00:10:24.99
and I was reading
the list of all you guys,
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I was like, "Oh...!"
00:10:27.92\00:10:29.26
I was excited because I
knew all of you in some capacity
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and you've all
been a blessing to me
00:10:32.73\00:10:34.06
but Christina actually was
part of my story of anorexia.
00:10:34.10\00:10:37.87
We were very close
friends during that time
00:10:37.90\00:10:43.00
and I've got a
picture of us together
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when we were like, 12, I think,
00:10:45.41\00:10:47.48
so Christina watched
that whole thing happen
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well, part of what happened
was, I was very isolated
00:10:51.81\00:10:54.12
and really just shut
people out of my life,
00:10:54.15\00:10:57.05
so,
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I was so sick
that I wasn't aware
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of how it
impacted everybody else
00:11:01.19\00:11:03.39
and I realized, when I
saw her name I was like,
00:11:03.43\00:11:06.73
"Whoa, we never really
talked about everything. "
00:11:06.76\00:11:10.00
Jennifer: Let me just insert
something really quickly here,
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I had no idea that you
too even knew each other
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when I was
setting up these programs
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and I just
randomly put you with her
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and then this
whole thing unfolded.
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Elise: Yeah, and so I thought,
00:11:20.88\00:11:23.04
Man! I don't think we
ever talked about that
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and I think we were able to talk
before... and just I was able...
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I was just praying like,
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"Lord, what should
I... what should I do here?"
00:11:31.29\00:11:35.19
And I had been praying,
a couple of months before,
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like, "Please make me aware of
the people that I've hurt... "
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because I know
there are people that...
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we all hurt people
unaware and we have blind spots
00:11:41.70\00:11:44.80
and so, I felt like I
should ask Christina like,
00:11:44.83\00:11:47.90
"What was that
experience for you?"
00:11:47.94\00:11:49.47
and, you know, I was just really
grateful that she could share
00:11:49.50\00:11:53.27
and I realized, "Wow!
I've hurt other people
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and they didn't know why I
distanced myself whatever... "
00:11:56.44\00:11:59.61
and she was super
gracious and being understanding
00:11:59.68\00:12:02.32
but I think it's...
one of the beautiful things
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about sharing our stories is
that God brings further healing
00:12:04.99\00:12:09.22
just in the process.
00:12:09.26\00:12:10.59
So, what was... tell
us from your angle...
00:12:10.63\00:12:13.50
all of a sudden, you
see her name on the Program
00:12:13.53\00:12:16.03
with you in the Program.
00:12:16.06\00:12:18.20
Well, it was
definitely a shock and it was...
00:12:18.23\00:12:21.80
when I heard that she
wanted to speak with me
00:12:21.84\00:12:25.11
before we even
considered doing the show,
00:12:25.14\00:12:28.38
that was definitely scary...
00:12:28.41\00:12:30.91
but I'm very grateful
to have that opportunity
00:12:30.95\00:12:34.38
because it
allowed me to understand
00:12:34.42\00:12:36.08
that what had
happened wasn't my fault...
00:12:36.12\00:12:38.29
it was actually
something I had lived with
00:12:38.32\00:12:40.46
and thought that
it was my fault...
00:12:40.52\00:12:42.22
what happened to Elise
and so, to hear more about...
00:12:42.26\00:12:45.46
the intricacy... the intricacies
of what had happened helped.
00:12:45.49\00:12:50.77
Jennifer: It's so cool
how God literally validated
00:12:50.80\00:12:54.10
what we're saying
here on this Program
00:12:54.14\00:12:56.81
by letting... just
orchestrating this whole thing
00:12:56.87\00:13:00.34
so then, kind of moved
into bulimia mode, what...
00:13:00.38\00:13:03.81
talk to us about that.
00:13:03.85\00:13:05.18
Right, so, I had strong
recovery for five or six years
00:13:05.21\00:13:10.05
after anorexia and
then I was in college,
00:13:10.09\00:13:13.05
I went through a
really intense time with...
00:13:13.09\00:13:15.99
very dark picture of
God, very performance based...
00:13:16.02\00:13:19.69
very legalistic... and I kind
of cracked under the pressure
00:13:19.73\00:13:25.77
of trying to be perfect,
00:13:25.80\00:13:27.34
and that's when
I developed bulimia
00:13:27.37\00:13:29.74
so, I don't do anything halfway
00:13:29.77\00:13:32.71
and that applies
to bulimia too...
00:13:32.74\00:13:36.41
I quickly started having really
out-of-control binge eating,
00:13:36.44\00:13:40.02
I would eat just 1,000s and
1,000s of calories at a time
00:13:40.05\00:13:43.59
and then vomit...
00:13:43.65\00:13:45.85
and... whereas
anorexia was kind of like...
00:13:45.89\00:13:49.66
like you said at the
beginning, you're proud of it...
00:13:49.69\00:13:52.33
even though I
was... it's so messed up,
00:13:52.36\00:13:54.96
bulimia was
more... just a lot of shame
00:13:55.03\00:13:57.57
and I had kind of like double
and triple layers of shame
00:13:57.60\00:14:04.27
because I... I had
gone to a Bible college
00:14:04.31\00:14:06.74
and I was... figuring out...
considering myself a missionary
00:14:06.78\00:14:10.91
and I'm doing outreach
and I knew the health message
00:14:10.95\00:14:14.12
so it was like,
"What is wrong with me
00:14:14.15\00:14:15.75
that I can be acting out
00:14:15.78\00:14:17.12
when I had all
this information. "
00:14:17.15\00:14:18.62
Jennifer: With the
shame and the triggers,
00:14:18.65\00:14:22.36
were there certain
environmental triggers
00:14:22.39\00:14:25.69
that made you feel
more... like you said...
00:14:25.73\00:14:29.00
made you drift over to legalism
00:14:29.03\00:14:30.63
or, was it just,
from within yourself?
00:14:30.67\00:14:33.07
Or was it both?
00:14:33.10\00:14:34.77
Elise: Yes, yeah,
it was definitely both,
00:14:34.80\00:14:36.87
like, I... I had been
00:14:36.91\00:14:39.94
learning a lot about standards
and the right way to live,
00:14:39.97\00:14:43.58
really awesome things
that I can celebrate when I...
00:14:43.61\00:14:48.08
understand them
in the right context
00:14:48.12\00:14:49.52
but I just had
tremendous pressure on myself
00:14:49.55\00:14:52.55
to... like, be
the perfect student
00:14:52.59\00:14:54.42
and to manage my
emotions perfectly
00:14:54.49\00:14:56.32
like, I was going
through a breakup and I thought,
00:14:56.39\00:14:58.56
"Well, because I feel like
00:14:58.59\00:15:00.03
God lead me away
from this person,
00:15:00.06\00:15:01.50
I'm not allowed to be sad"
00:15:01.53\00:15:03.23
and so, I have to
be happy all the time
00:15:03.26\00:15:05.17
and I have to exercise
every day and just like
00:15:05.20\00:15:09.10
trying to be perfect
and I kind of cracked
00:15:09.14\00:15:12.97
because I didn't feel a
sense of love and acceptance
00:15:13.01\00:15:15.61
so, the bulimia was
not an attempt to find love
00:15:15.64\00:15:20.15
but just giving up on the fact
that I was able to find love
00:15:20.18\00:15:24.05
within Christianity
00:15:24.09\00:15:25.52
because I just couldn't keep up
with, like, trying to perform.
00:15:25.55\00:15:28.79
Jennifer: So there seems to me
00:15:28.82\00:15:30.16
like there are two different
kinds of eating disorders,
00:15:30.19\00:15:32.19
one is more spiritual...
00:15:32.23\00:15:33.56
sounds like you've
got elements of that...
00:15:33.60\00:15:35.20
like, people just want to be
righteous... kind of thing...
00:15:35.26\00:15:37.43
and then there's
the body-oriented one
00:15:37.47\00:15:39.73
where you're very oriented
towards seeing your body
00:15:39.77\00:15:42.80
and comparing it to
standards and fashion,
00:15:42.84\00:15:44.67
did you kind of
have both going on or...?
00:15:44.71\00:15:46.47
I mean, definitely
through both eating disorders
00:15:46.54\00:15:50.18
there were the body-image issues
00:15:50.21\00:15:52.51
but I think they were
also both very much driven
00:15:52.55\00:15:58.12
by spiritual
and emotional needs,
00:15:58.15\00:16:01.39
so, I wanted to
share a story that...
00:16:01.42\00:16:04.63
it just kind of highlights,
00:16:04.66\00:16:06.09
I think, the way
that God reaches out to us
00:16:06.13\00:16:08.13
when we're in
that place of darkness.
00:16:08.16\00:16:09.90
There's a picture here
of my adopted grandma, Rita,
00:16:09.93\00:16:14.54
and she... really sweet
lady who kind of adopted me
00:16:14.57\00:16:19.14
when I was in college
00:16:19.17\00:16:20.51
and I started
binge eating at her house
00:16:20.54\00:16:23.08
and I would like, eat her food
00:16:23.11\00:16:25.68
and then I would go
to the grocery store
00:16:25.71\00:16:27.68
and I'm trying to replace it
00:16:27.72\00:16:29.05
and I was just so
ashamed about the whole thing
00:16:29.08\00:16:30.69
and I remember,
one day, she was like,
00:16:30.72\00:16:33.36
"Is there a
mouse in my kitchen?"
00:16:33.39\00:16:34.99
I was like... so embarrassed...
00:16:35.02\00:16:36.56
and I told her what was going on
00:16:36.59\00:16:38.06
and she said, "Sweetheart,
are you eating regular meals,
00:16:38.09\00:16:43.60
are you sitting with people?"
00:16:43.63\00:16:45.77
and I just remember
being like, so surprised
00:16:45.80\00:16:50.21
because I was coming at
it from this angle of like,
00:16:50.24\00:16:53.44
"I'm bad... I'm
doing the wrong thing... "
00:16:53.48\00:16:56.64
and she was just
like, "Are you okay?"
00:16:56.71\00:16:59.81
Jennifer: You're not taking
good enough care of yourself.
00:16:59.85\00:17:01.18
Elise: Right...
00:17:01.22\00:17:02.55
Jennifer: Like, you're not
being good enough to yourself,
00:17:02.58\00:17:03.92
instead of needing
to punish yourself,
00:17:03.95\00:17:05.29
you needed to be
good to yourself.
00:17:05.32\00:17:06.65
Elise: Right,
and usually, I think,
00:17:06.69\00:17:08.02
a lot of times when we're
caught up in patterns of sin
00:17:08.06\00:17:10.16
and brokenness... like...
00:17:10.19\00:17:11.53
we think about it
from this angle of
00:17:11.56\00:17:13.83
we think we're so sure
about how God feels about us
00:17:13.86\00:17:16.43
and we're just so messed up
00:17:16.46\00:17:17.80
when He is coming at it
from a different angle, like,
00:17:17.83\00:17:19.80
"I want them to be okay. "
00:17:19.83\00:17:21.17
I listened to a TED
Talk recently called,
00:17:21.20\00:17:24.31
where "Everything you think you
know about addiction is wrong. "
00:17:24.34\00:17:27.48
and in the closing statement...
00:17:27.51\00:17:29.28
Jennifer: For Love,
care... for addiction...
00:17:29.31\00:17:30.85
Elise: Yeah, and I
don't remember everything
00:17:30.88\00:17:32.35
they talked about but
there were some beautiful points
00:17:32.38\00:17:33.72
and in the
closing sentence, he said,
00:17:33.75\00:17:35.08
"For a hundred
years we've been singing
00:17:35.12\00:17:36.92
war songs about addicts,
00:17:36.95\00:17:38.69
when really we should be
singing them love songs... "
00:17:38.72\00:17:41.36
and it reminded me...
because I still remember
00:17:41.39\00:17:44.56
there were like two
times when I was purging
00:17:44.59\00:17:47.70
where I felt like... so ashamed
and so sinful and just...
00:17:47.73\00:17:54.50
I'm like, "God
must be so upset... "
00:17:54.57\00:17:56.17
where I had this
distinct impression of Him
00:17:56.20\00:17:59.11
singing over me,
00:17:59.14\00:18:00.48
and like, these two moments
of other songs... one said,
00:18:00.51\00:18:05.31
"When you're
here, lowest of lows...
00:18:05.35\00:18:07.45
I want you to know,
00:18:07.48\00:18:08.85
I think more of you than
what you could yourself... "
00:18:08.88\00:18:11.12
and just being
just so caught off-guard
00:18:11.15\00:18:13.86
like, because
that cycle of shame
00:18:13.89\00:18:17.33
that drives eating disorders
and drives many addictions
00:18:17.36\00:18:20.26
is that... it just
perpetuates the problem
00:18:20.30\00:18:23.06
and it's not from God.
00:18:23.10\00:18:24.57
All: Hmmm...
hmmm... Jenny: Powerful...
00:18:24.60\00:18:26.77
Didn't you recently
write a blog about shame?
00:18:26.80\00:18:30.71
Do you want to talk about that
00:18:30.74\00:18:32.21
or do you have more to say
before we get to that point?
00:18:32.27\00:18:34.34
Sure, I would love
to talk about that...
00:18:34.38\00:18:36.64
can we talk about body image?
00:18:36.68\00:18:38.38
Jennifer: Yes, let's
talk about body image, yeah.
00:18:38.41\00:18:39.85
Elise: Okay, so, again, when I
was asked to be on the Program,
00:18:39.88\00:18:44.55
I started thinking about,
00:18:44.59\00:18:45.92
"Well, I still have a
lot of body insecurities... "
00:18:45.95\00:18:48.02
I mean, I still do...
00:18:48.06\00:18:49.39
but I think some... I
always just like, thought,
00:18:49.42\00:18:52.93
"Well, I'm in God's work
and it's not slowing me down
00:18:52.96\00:18:55.10
so, you know, just keep going
00:18:55.13\00:18:56.46
and if you feel bad about
your body or whatever... "
00:18:56.50\00:18:58.03
and I thought,
00:18:58.07\00:18:59.43
"Well, maybe if God wants
some more healing here... "
00:18:59.47\00:19:01.47
just in the last
couple of months...
00:19:01.50\00:19:02.84
so I started
praying about, like,
00:19:02.87\00:19:04.21
finding new ways to
think about my body,
00:19:04.24\00:19:07.71
because I... you know...
00:19:07.74\00:19:09.91
everyone has insecurities
about their bodies, like,
00:19:09.94\00:19:14.02
I'm pear-shaped and so
there's some parts of my body
00:19:14.05\00:19:17.85
that I feel great about
00:19:17.89\00:19:19.22
and then there are others
I don't feel so great about
00:19:19.25\00:19:20.99
and so, it was
just kind of funny, like
00:19:21.02\00:19:24.39
God gave me a couple of
different tools for body image
00:19:24.43\00:19:27.56
and I want to share because
00:19:27.60\00:19:28.93
probably more
people can relate to that
00:19:28.96\00:19:30.30
than having an eating disorder,
00:19:30.37\00:19:32.23
so I realize, when
I look in the mirror,
00:19:32.27\00:19:34.74
I automatically look
at what I don't like,
00:19:34.77\00:19:37.31
and then I start to
feel, like, shame about it
00:19:37.34\00:19:40.38
or just this negative
self-talk so, I was like,
00:19:40.41\00:19:43.11
"I have to have a plan for
what I'm missing instead. "
00:19:43.14\00:19:45.68
so, instead I
started saying, like,
00:19:45.71\00:19:48.38
"Thank you God that I'm
fearfully and wonderfully made,
00:19:48.42\00:19:51.09
like, I'm zooming out from this
body part that isn't my favorite
00:19:51.12\00:19:54.66
and like,
thinking that I have a body
00:19:54.69\00:19:56.52
and it's healthy and strong
and it climbs mountains and...
00:19:56.56\00:20:01.63
thank you that I have thighs
because if I didn't... like...
00:20:01.66\00:20:04.17
they connect my leg
to the rest of my body...
00:20:04.20\00:20:07.80
it's this utilitarian thing... "
00:20:07.84\00:20:09.74
Jennifer: And if you
had stick-thin thighs,
00:20:09.77\00:20:11.67
you'd have a lot harder
time getting up those mountains.
00:20:11.71\00:20:13.98
Elise: Right, right, and then...
00:20:14.01\00:20:15.54
I was praying about...
because I have this thing
00:20:15.58\00:20:18.21
where when I sit... you
know, when you sit down...
00:20:18.25\00:20:20.82
you're legs squash
down... so they feel bigger,
00:20:20.85\00:20:23.79
and I just... you
have gotten used to, like,
00:20:23.82\00:20:26.69
"Yeah, when I sit down, I
don't feel good about myself"
00:20:26.72\00:20:28.72
I was like, "that is so lame...
00:20:28.76\00:20:30.39
am I going to go the rest of
my life, like, feeling insecure
00:20:30.43\00:20:33.19
when I sit down, of course,
my legs are going to be bigger"
00:20:33.23\00:20:35.96
so, I was like, "God,
how do I think about this?"
00:20:36.00\00:20:37.87
and then I thought...
00:20:37.93\00:20:39.27
it's because of gravity
that my thigh is squishing down,
00:20:39.30\00:20:42.04
right, so I'm like,
"Thank you, Jesus, for gravity,"
00:20:42.07\00:20:45.34
it's like, if my
thighs weren't squishing down,
00:20:45.37\00:20:47.61
we wouldn't be able
to have this interview,
00:20:47.64\00:20:49.61
like, we would just be
floating around out there...
00:20:49.64\00:20:52.55
right, and so, I
love how God can make
00:20:52.61\00:20:55.38
something that feels so broken
and shameful, like, actually,
00:20:55.45\00:20:58.32
just bring it into
the light and like,
00:20:58.35\00:21:00.86
there can be humor
and we can talk about it
00:21:00.89\00:21:03.26
and that doesn't mean that...
00:21:03.29\00:21:04.63
that's not my
favorite part of my body
00:21:04.66\00:21:06.33
but it takes away
some of the power.
00:21:06.39\00:21:08.16
Jennifer: Hmmm... amen...
that's so... thankful for that.
00:21:08.20\00:21:11.43
Christina: Praise has really
been a way of coping with this,
00:21:11.50\00:21:14.70
praising God
for what you do like
00:21:14.77\00:21:16.84
as opposed to focusing
on what you don't like.
00:21:16.87\00:21:19.27
Jennifer: And even praising
God for what you don't like
00:21:19.31\00:21:21.24
and reframing it... looking
at it through a different lens.
00:21:21.28\00:21:23.21
you know like,
00:21:23.24\00:21:24.58
"I'd be floating around
if it wasn't for those thighs
00:21:24.61\00:21:27.85
that I think I don't like... "
00:21:27.88\00:21:29.45
that's great reframing, I think,
00:21:29.48\00:21:30.82
because you're looking at
it from a different angle.
00:21:30.85\00:21:32.29
Elise: Yeah, and I... I...
00:21:32.32\00:21:34.29
something about being
on national television
00:21:34.32\00:21:36.89
is motivating so... hopefully
this work will continue
00:21:36.93\00:21:39.46
because I certainly
don't feel like an expert.
00:21:39.49\00:21:41.30
Shelly: I have a question
about the treatment that you got
00:21:41.33\00:21:44.23
when you had to go in-patient...
00:21:44.27\00:21:45.60
just from my
experience of working with
00:21:45.63\00:21:48.70
eating-disorders clients,
00:21:48.74\00:21:50.31
I've learned that there's like
seven tenets or a team approach,
00:21:50.34\00:21:58.11
what was a part of your team?
00:21:58.18\00:22:00.22
Because, obviously,
"faith" played a huge part in it
00:22:00.28\00:22:02.88
which helps our thoughts
and our cognitions incredibly...
00:22:02.92\00:22:06.92
research has shown that
that's a huge part of it
00:22:06.96\00:22:09.89
if it's incorporated...
not just in secular therapy
00:22:09.92\00:22:12.83
but bringing "faith" into it,
00:22:12.86\00:22:15.26
but what were the other
tenets that were in your team?
00:22:15.30\00:22:18.33
Elise: I don't think I
had an ideal situation,
00:22:18.37\00:22:22.44
I did counseling and
saw a dietitian briefly
00:22:22.47\00:22:25.81
and then I... because
my weight was stabilized
00:22:25.84\00:22:29.18
and I was in
school it just stopped
00:22:29.21\00:22:30.68
but definitely having a team
approach is really important...
00:22:30.71\00:22:34.45
and I think
eating-disorder recovery
00:22:34.48\00:22:38.55
has come a really long way,
like, one of the doctors I had
00:22:38.62\00:22:40.89
first time, he was like,
00:22:40.96\00:22:42.86
"You don't love God and
you don't love your family...
00:22:42.89\00:22:44.59
or else you wouldn't
be doing this... so... "
00:22:44.63\00:22:46.29
Jennifer: Oh
great... more shame...
00:22:46.33\00:22:47.66
Elise: Yeah, and
back to the shame thing...
00:22:47.70\00:22:49.16
I feel like... a common
thread in anorexia and bulimia
00:22:49.20\00:22:54.77
and many other things we
struggle with, is shame...
00:22:54.80\00:22:58.17
and recently I was able
to share a message on "shame"
00:22:58.24\00:23:01.58
and if anyone wants
to hear it, it's called:
00:23:01.61\00:23:03.95
"When Jesus put
shame to shame... "
00:23:03.98\00:23:05.31
so you can just Google it,
00:23:05.35\00:23:06.68
but what the Lord
really impressed me was
00:23:06.72\00:23:08.68
we have two types of
shame we deal with as humans,
00:23:08.72\00:23:12.95
"silly shame and sinful shame"
00:23:12.99\00:23:15.19
so "silly shame" is like, the
things we feel insecure about,
00:23:15.22\00:23:19.59
my thighs or my
position or my salary...
00:23:19.63\00:23:23.80
or things we
know shouldn't matter
00:23:23.83\00:23:25.47
but we still feel a
lot of shame over it,
00:23:25.50\00:23:27.14
and then "sinful shame" is like,
00:23:27.20\00:23:29.44
the shame that
results from our sins
00:23:29.50\00:23:31.71
and knowing that we're broken
00:23:31.74\00:23:33.07
and God made me think about,
it's Hebrews... something...
00:23:33.11\00:23:38.71
"Looking unto Jesus, the author
and finisher of our faith... "
00:23:38.75\00:23:42.55
it says, "who for the
joy set before him... "
00:23:42.58\00:23:45.15
okay, so the "joy
set before Him... "
00:23:45.19\00:23:47.89
that's the solution to
the "silly shame," right,
00:23:47.92\00:23:50.13
because all these... all
these things we have to do to...
00:23:50.16\00:23:53.56
the things we have to
do to build an identity...
00:23:53.60\00:23:55.36
we're forgetting
that we're His joy...
00:23:55.43\00:23:59.03
no matter what we look like
or no matter how we perform...
00:23:59.10\00:24:01.87
we're His joy...
00:24:01.90\00:24:03.24
and then it says,
"He endured the cross,
00:24:03.27\00:24:05.47
despising the shame... "
00:24:05.51\00:24:07.18
and that really
speaks to the "sinful shame"
00:24:07.21\00:24:11.28
because He... in
taking our shame on Himself...
00:24:11.31\00:24:15.38
Jesus said, in this
really beautiful way...
00:24:15.42\00:24:19.42
He would rather put Himself
to shame than put us to shame,
00:24:19.45\00:24:24.09
so the way He
wants to relate to us
00:24:24.13\00:24:26.39
in our "every form of shame"
00:24:26.43\00:24:29.03
is just the most loving,
00:24:29.06\00:24:31.60
beautiful way we
could ever imagine...
00:24:31.63\00:24:33.84
kind of like the way
that Rita spoke to me.
00:24:33.87\00:24:36.54
Jennifer: You're the
story of freedom, I love it.
00:24:36.57\00:24:39.44
Paul: You know as
you're thinking about
00:24:39.47\00:24:40.84
God's brought
you out of anorexia
00:24:40.88\00:24:42.21
which is a very deadly disease,
00:24:42.24\00:24:43.75
I think, Jennifer, you
said, one out of ten...
00:24:43.78\00:24:45.11
Jennifer: One out of ten die,
00:24:45.15\00:24:47.05
it's the most terminal
of psychological disorders.
00:24:47.08\00:24:49.82
Paul: Yeah, and then He's
brought you out of bulimia...
00:24:49.85\00:24:52.15
so you're really
a walking miracle...
00:24:52.19\00:24:54.06
in the fact that
He's restored you
00:24:54.09\00:24:55.86
and I'm just
curious, with that...
00:24:55.89\00:24:57.99
and teaching you
how to praise Him
00:24:58.03\00:25:00.06
and to reframe things,
00:25:00.10\00:25:01.46
how do you see this flowing out,
00:25:01.50\00:25:02.90
what difference has that made
00:25:02.93\00:25:04.37
for the healing
that God's brought you
00:25:04.40\00:25:05.77
you're still in a journey...
we're all still in a journey...
00:25:05.80\00:25:07.77
and I'm just wondering,
00:25:07.80\00:25:09.14
"How has that made a
difference in your life...
00:25:09.17\00:25:10.81
that you're really a
walking miracle for Him?
00:25:10.84\00:25:13.54
Elise: Hmmm... I
think it's good to remember
00:25:13.58\00:25:16.04
because I used to
watch "Testimony Shows"
00:25:16.08\00:25:18.38
and I'm like, "And now that
person has everything together"
00:25:18.41\00:25:20.68
and then, you get
asked to be on a Program
00:25:20.72\00:25:23.85
and you're like, "Oh, but
I'm not one of those people
00:25:23.89\00:25:25.59
that has
everything together... "
00:25:25.62\00:25:26.96
Jennifer: We really want
to clarify, on this Program,
00:25:26.99\00:25:29.49
that that's not
what we're saying here,
00:25:29.52\00:25:30.86
we're saying,
"You're on the road...
00:25:30.89\00:25:32.43
but everybody is a
work in progress. "
00:25:32.46\00:25:34.06
Elise: Still, I think,
to put it in a nutshell,
00:25:34.10\00:25:37.07
one of my favorite quotes says,
00:25:37.10\00:25:39.60
"The glory of God
is man fully alive... "
00:25:39.63\00:25:43.71
and I have seen and
felt and experienced
00:25:43.74\00:25:47.74
like, the thief coming to
steal and kill and destroy me
00:25:47.78\00:25:50.45
and yet God
infusing me with... with life
00:25:50.48\00:25:54.38
and helping me
be more fully alive
00:25:54.42\00:25:56.28
so I believe His goal for me
00:25:56.32\00:25:58.09
is to make me
feel more fully alive
00:25:58.12\00:26:00.76
and so when I'm struggling
with other things, which I am...
00:26:00.79\00:26:03.69
and do... just being able
to come back to that framework
00:26:03.73\00:26:06.56
is like, "I can trust Him... "
00:26:06.59\00:26:08.00
like, it's a work of healing
00:26:08.03\00:26:09.66
and that that freedom that
I want... it comes from Him.
00:26:09.70\00:26:13.20
Jennifer: Amen...
00:26:13.23\00:26:14.57
Paul: You can go
back to that track record
00:26:14.60\00:26:15.94
of remembering what
He's been doing for you.
00:26:15.97\00:26:17.31
Elise: Yeah.
00:26:17.34\00:26:18.67
Jennifer: Wow! Love that.
00:26:18.71\00:26:20.04
Well, any closing words,
we have, maybe, 30 seconds...
00:26:20.08\00:26:23.65
what would you say to someone
who's struggling with shame
00:26:23.68\00:26:27.32
and the various manifestations?
00:26:27.35\00:26:29.52
Paul: Self-harm
and... Jennifer: Yeah...
00:26:29.55\00:26:31.75
Elise: I think...
for me... just like
00:26:31.79\00:26:35.02
imagine yourself being
hugged in the brokenness...
00:26:35.09\00:26:40.93
imagine the most beautiful
song being sung over you
00:26:40.96\00:26:46.77
and just knowing that
we have that kind of God
00:26:46.80\00:26:49.84
that His love
is so unconditional
00:26:49.87\00:26:53.34
and so... all encompassing...
00:26:53.38\00:26:56.64
and being able to...
to know and feel that
00:26:56.68\00:26:59.81
is really the only
thing that can help.
00:26:59.85\00:27:02.92
Christina: So
finding security in His love,
00:27:02.98\00:27:05.45
that's what you're saying.
00:27:05.49\00:27:06.82
Shelly: Praise
God. Christina: Amen.
00:27:06.86\00:27:08.59
Jennifer: Amen...
Christina: Praise God.
00:27:08.62\00:27:10.33
Jennifer: You know, we are
just all so incredibly broken,
00:27:10.36\00:27:13.43
every single one of us
00:27:13.46\00:27:14.80
and yet, in the
depths of our shame,
00:27:14.83\00:27:17.17
God rejoices over
us with singing...
00:27:17.20\00:27:19.73
not in some sadistic way
but because He sees the future
00:27:19.77\00:27:22.84
and He sees the
path out of that shame
00:27:22.87\00:27:25.24
and He knows His
ability to restore us
00:27:25.27\00:27:27.74
and He also knows
that He will restore us
00:27:27.78\00:27:30.18
and so, if you're someone
00:27:30.21\00:27:31.81
who has struggled
with eating disorders,
00:27:31.88\00:27:33.42
if you're someone
who's struggled with
00:27:33.48\00:27:34.95
one of the various
manifestations of shame,
00:27:34.98\00:27:37.35
we want you to know
that it's not over yet
00:27:37.39\00:27:39.62
and that God...
you're story continues
00:27:39.65\00:27:41.72
and that the God of heaven is
looking down on you and saying,
00:27:41.76\00:27:45.79
"I see the potential here,
00:27:45.86\00:27:47.20
I see this person
complete in Christ,
00:27:47.23\00:27:49.56
even though, right now,
they're in a broken state,
00:27:49.63\00:27:51.57
I can see them
complete in Christ... "
00:27:51.60\00:27:52.93
and He bids us to allow
Him fully into our lives
00:27:52.97\00:27:56.24
so that we can experience
that healing day by day...
00:27:56.27\00:27:59.17
moment by moment...
00:27:59.21\00:28:00.58