We are sharing tools to
fix the tough stuff here
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at the Multitude
of Counselors today
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and we're so glad you
could tune in to our Program.
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The title of our Program
today is: Getting Past Panic.
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Let me talk to you a
little bit about Panic Disorder.
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It's an Anxiety Disorder
characterized by recurrent
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unexpected panic attacks.
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They may include such
symptoms as heart palpitations,
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sweating, shaking,
shortness of breath,
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numbness, and a
feeling of impending disaster.
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Our guest is nodding
as I'm saying these things
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because she has
experienced this,
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the prevalence
for panic disorder
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ranges from two percent to six
percent in the United States.
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Panic Disorder often
coexists with other disorders
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such as a mood disorder
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which often onsets
after the panic disorder
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so the person starts
having these panic episodes
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and they think, "My
life is falling apart"
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and then they get depressed
about it... or whatever...
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so things can
build upon one another.
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The cause is pretty
much a confluence of factors,
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there's a high degree
of genetic heritability
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with all of the
anxiety disorders
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so you can blame
your family for it,
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there's also congenital factors,
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when the mother
is carrying the baby,
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the baby is going to
feel the mother's anxiety
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so that can influence you.
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Often, "Home of
Origin" factors...
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the behaviors and
attitudes you see demonstrated
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by family members...
you learn those behaviors
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and we often acquire panic or
anxiety because of those things
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and then also, anxiety disorders
are very strongly correlated
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with poor bonding in
the home of origin...
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I'm not saying all these
things are true of our guest...
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it may not be true at all
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but we find that the mother
and the father of the child
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really do a lot to build
that child's nervous system
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so it's good to
remember those things
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when you're raising children
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and also
lifestyle choices such as
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using drugs, using alcohol
using nicotine and caffeine...
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anything that upsets
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the delicate
balance of neurotransmitters
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can trigger or
worsen anxiety problems,
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so we want to
take care of our brains
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because those neurotransmitters
are very delicately balanced
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by the Creator and
we need to respect that.
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Well, the good news is that
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even if you do have
an anxiety disorder,
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perfect love can
ultimately cast out fear
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and we're going to be
hearing about that today
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but, often when people go to a
physician or to their counselor
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or to a
psychiatrist to get treatment
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for an anxiety disorder,
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what we will find is that
they will give them either
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antidepressants... which can
also help with managing anxiety
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or drugs called: Benzodiazepines
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those are very
commonly prescribed.
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My concern with
"Benzos" as I call them
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is that they're
highly addictive...
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within two weeks, you'll start
to experience desensitization,
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have to take higher
doses to get the same effect
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so I really prefer... if people
are going to use Benzodiazepines
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that they use
them only episodically
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and not consistently.
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one of the most
important things we can share
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with those that
have anxiety disorders
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is how to breath properly,
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we need to learn
how to breath properly.
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Ellen White said that students
should be taught to breath
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and that implies that
we don't know how to breath
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and so, what we do...
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and I think all
of us as therapists
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teach people how to
breath deep and slow
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which activates
the cerebral cortex
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because you're choosing
to slow your breathing down
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and when you
activate the cerebral...
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frontal lobe of
the cerebral cortex,
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it helps to calm
your limbic system,
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kind of the way a
mother calms a child.
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A simple healthy
lifestyle can contribute,
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cognitive behavioral therapy
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where you sort
through your "thought life"
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and you receive
healthy and balanced thinking
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from the Lord Jesus
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can often help set
us on a straight path
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and so we want to introduce our
guest and our counselors today
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and get into
this... this issue because
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so many people have
anxiety disorders...
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almost 20 percent
of the US population
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will be diagnosed
with an anxiety disorder
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at some point in their lifetime
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so you're in good
company, having experienced it
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and we're looking
forward to hearing from you.
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This is Kessia Reyne Bennett,
she is a doctoral student,
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she goes to... what
school do you go to?
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Trinity
Evangelical Divinity School.
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Jennifer: In Chicago
where she lives with her husband
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and her beautiful child, Nika
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because I see her on
Instagram all the time.
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Kessia: Yes.
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Jennifer: Yeah
and she's beautiful,
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we're so glad you're here
today to be honest with us
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about a patch in your life...
and it was quite a long patch
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where you wrestled with
a pretty serious disorder
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and, by the grace of
God, you found some things
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that have helped you and
you're able to talk about it
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so, praise God for that
and I'm so glad you're here.
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We also have professional
Counselor, Shelly Wiggins
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from Michigan,
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she has a private
practice in Michigan,
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we have the illustrious,
MFT, Paul Coneff from Texas
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and we have professional
Counselor, Christina Cecotto
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from Georgia.
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I always think Tennessee...
she's right on the border...
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so glad you guys are here
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let's talk about
your story, Kessia,
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when did this start
and how did it start?
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Yeah, well, I was a
convert as a teenager
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and a couple of years
into my faith-walk with Jesus,
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I went through a
spiritual crisis...
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with a little
period of rebellion...
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and that caused some
spiritual disruption in my life
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and some spiritual anxiety,
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coming out on the
other side of that,
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I started experiencing these
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episodes of just
intense anxiety...
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like very strong
dis-ease that would move into...
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such an intense place,
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I had a hard time
getting out of it.
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I wouldn't have
known to call that
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any kind of a panic
attack or anything like that
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but I had this
overwhelming sense of danger
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and dis-ease and fear
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so that progressed
through my teen years...
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I went to
college and university,
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I got married and so on
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so that carried me
all the way through
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until I was in my mid-twenties
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when the Lord
gave me a deliverance
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I couldn't have dreamt of.
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Wow! well that's a
very sweeping overview,
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can you unpack a little bit,
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tell us what happened to you
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on a cognitive level
and a spiritual level,
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you said you were
rebelling so to speak,
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and then this onset occurred
so did you connect the dots
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or think that that
was because of rebellion
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or what would happen to you?
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Yeah, definitely, I mean, so...
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so, I had misrepresented
myself, I'd told a lie
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and I didn't want to go
back and un-tell it, you know...
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I didn't want to be embarrassed
and face up to that and...
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so I was avoiding it
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and in avoiding it, I
just kind of slid right into
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a whole set of behaviors
that no one would say is good
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and while I was
there, the Lord rescued me
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like a little
brand from the burning...
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and set me back on a
path to be closer to Jesus
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but I still had this leftover.
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Jennifer: Can you
tell us about the behaviors
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or would you rather
keep that to yourself,
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it's totally up to you.
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Kessia: I think I'll
keep that quiet but the...
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they left this
residue with me, right,
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and on the other side of that,
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I felt... although I
had made the right... wrong,
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and I had gone through...
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Jennifer: Oh you
did go through...
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Kessia: I did, finally...
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Jennifer: That was embarrassing.
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Kessia: Yeah, right, it was.
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Jennifer: But it was worth it.
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Kessia: Yeah, totally
worth it, totally worth it,
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of course, on the other
side you're always thinking,
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"Why didn't you do that sooner?"
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But on the other side of that,
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even though I had righted the
wrong the best way I knew how,
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the anxiety remained
so I just kept thinking,
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"Oh, there's something else,
there's more I have to do... "
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and so I would,
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I tried every angle to
try to kind of purge myself
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from that sin and
to right the wrong
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even after it had been
righted again and again
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so I couldn't be free
from the sense of anxiety
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and I attributed it to,
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"Oh, the Lord's
communicating to me that
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that hasn't been
taken care of yet.
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Jennifer: Well, what
wrongs did you right, I mean,
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you'd already righted the wrong
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so you said, you
kept righting the wrong.
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Kessia: Yeah,
so I kept thinking,
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"Oh what about
these other people?
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That one public presentation,
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and it was to a
whole group of people
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and I... can I...
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if I see one of
those people on the street,
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do I run up to them or tell
them or do I seek them out?"
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Jennifer: You
were speaking in public
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so you felt you had to track
down everybody that was there?
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Kessia: Yeah and just...
"Did I mislead that person?
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Did I say that to that person?
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And I'm kind of
searching my mind
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and... in a kind of
obsessive way and then I start,
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"Okay, I'm going to
re-confess this... "
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I think every Christian's gone
through something like that,
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"Oh, I'd better re-confess it
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and really, really
repent of it this time"
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so I was just... "I
need extra confession...
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extra
repentance... extra amends... "
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just trying to keep
that anxiety at bay.
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Shelly: It's almost
a hyper spirituality
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that was probably bringing
the anxiety even further...
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to an elevated level.
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Kessia: Yeah, definitely,
I'm one of those people
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who naturally has
people-pleasing tendencies,
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I'm conscientious
and so to people like me
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commandments and rules
and exhortations hit very hard
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so "Oh... " and you know,
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God had used a sense of
dis-ease to communicate with me
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that things are not right
and they needed to be righted...
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but I was unable to see whether
I had turned pathological
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and I had misinterpreted it.
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Did you experience some relief
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when you originally
confessed the wrong?
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Okay, so then you thought,
"Well, if I keep confessing,
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maybe I'll get
more relief" right?
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Yeah, yeah and actually,
wonderfully, God, at that time,
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just at that juncture,
after I'd righted those wrongs
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and I did
experience quite a freedom,
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He introduced me in a deeper way
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to the experience of
righteousness by faith
00:10:01.13\00:10:03.23
and gave me the
gospel in a deeper way
00:10:03.26\00:10:07.54
and then the panic
came, so how do I...
00:10:07.57\00:10:11.77
Were you aware of any of
the negative thoughts you had
00:10:11.81\00:10:13.14
behind the panic?
00:10:13.17\00:10:14.51
Panic is a strong feeling,
were you aware of any of that,
00:10:14.54\00:10:16.54
what the thoughts
were about yourself?
00:10:16.58\00:10:20.12
Oh, about
myself... It was more...
00:10:20.15\00:10:22.88
I just felt like I
was in spiritual danger...
00:10:22.95\00:10:25.15
I just felt kind of a danger
00:10:25.19\00:10:26.82
so almost like a
"spiritual oppression"
00:10:26.86\00:10:28.69
is maybe how I would
have characterized it,
00:10:28.72\00:10:31.16
so early on...
00:10:31.19\00:10:32.53
Jennifer: Did you
keep thinking, "I'm lost?"
00:10:32.56\00:10:33.90
Kessia: Early on...
no... early on it was
00:10:33.93\00:10:35.33
"Okay, I need to pray
for spiritual protection
00:10:35.36\00:10:39.60
because I had
righted those wrongs
00:10:39.63\00:10:41.30
and I was kind of counting
on the grace of the Lord Jesus
00:10:41.34\00:10:44.41
but as they persisted,
00:10:44.44\00:10:45.91
then, that
confidence began to wear away
00:10:45.94\00:10:48.84
and then after a while...
the most intense season...
00:10:48.88\00:10:52.71
it turned into... not
just "lost" in some vague sense
00:10:52.75\00:10:56.55
but like, "I'm trying to sleep
00:10:56.58\00:10:58.92
and I'm overcome with
this panic experience,
00:10:58.95\00:11:01.62
I'm falling into the
abyss of God's absence... "
00:11:01.66\00:11:04.26
and then later...
God's non-existence...
00:11:04.53\00:11:07.06
Christina: Yeah, sounds like you
were relying upon your feelings
00:11:07.10\00:11:09.86
to tell you whether
you were okay with God.
00:11:09.90\00:11:11.53
Kessia: Hmmm... hmmm... yeah
and I had all of this theology
00:11:11.57\00:11:15.47
to correct me, right,
00:11:15.50\00:11:17.64
so I would move
from here to there
00:11:17.67\00:11:20.21
and here to there and so...
00:11:20.28\00:11:21.84
Jennifer: What's
the here and there?
00:11:21.88\00:11:23.21
Kessia: From my feelings
to my theological convictions,
00:11:23.24\00:11:26.61
and my feelings and my...
00:11:26.65\00:11:27.98
so my feelings were
definitely saying, "Doom... "
00:11:28.02\00:11:30.89
my theological convictions...
"Well, let's see...
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from what I know,
I... this is what's right
00:11:33.89\00:11:36.22
and I did that... and
this is what's right...
00:11:36.26\00:11:38.19
and I did that...
and God is like this...
00:11:38.23\00:11:39.76
and I depend on
Him for that and... "
00:11:39.79\00:11:41.30
Jennifer:
Righteousness by works...
00:11:41.33\00:11:42.86
so, there was a conflict
between what you believed
00:11:42.90\00:11:46.67
and what you felt?
00:11:46.70\00:11:48.04
Kessia: Definitely, until...
00:11:48.07\00:11:49.57
you know, and in that conflict
one of them is going to give
00:11:49.60\00:11:53.58
and my theology started to
give... on a personal level,
00:11:53.61\00:11:57.55
I could have
easily counseled Shelly
00:11:57.58\00:12:00.02
about God's
goodness and grace toward her
00:12:00.05\00:12:02.18
and how
righteousness by faith works
00:12:02.22\00:12:03.92
but in my own
heart, I thought, "But I...
00:12:03.95\00:12:07.49
God is communicating
to me that I am doomed
00:12:07.56\00:12:11.03
and I just cannot figure out
what to do to get around it... "
00:12:11.06\00:12:14.60
so I started just avoiding God
00:12:14.63\00:12:16.97
in all the ways
that were private.
00:12:17.00\00:12:19.23
I'm still praying
publicly, I'm preaching,
00:12:19.27\00:12:21.40
I'm a theology student,
I'm giving Bible Studies,
00:12:21.44\00:12:24.27
I'm counseling people in that...
in that way lay people do
00:12:24.31\00:12:28.64
and... but in my
own private life,
00:12:28.71\00:12:31.11
there was just disaster.
00:12:31.15\00:12:34.22
Jennifer: There were
crickets between you and God.
00:12:34.25\00:12:36.89
Kessia: Well, it was more
like peals of ominous thunder.
00:12:36.95\00:12:40.96
Jennifer: Okay...
00:12:40.99\00:12:42.32
Christina:
Looking back, do you...
00:12:42.36\00:12:43.69
do you still see it as
God was speaking to you
00:12:43.73\00:12:46.49
and telling you
that you were doomed?
00:12:46.53\00:12:47.86
Kessia: No, no, no, I mean...
00:12:47.90\00:12:49.56
Shelly: You corrected
the source of that message?
00:12:49.60\00:12:52.27
Kessia: Yeah, one of the things
I didn't realize till later
00:12:52.30\00:12:55.20
was... I had an underlying
physical situation happening too
00:12:55.24\00:12:58.11
with my blood sugar,
00:12:58.14\00:12:59.51
so I have a kind
of a hypoglycemia
00:12:59.54\00:13:01.74
where it doesn't even
immediately get better
00:13:01.78\00:13:05.41
after I eat... it gets
worse and then it gets better
00:13:05.45\00:13:08.52
so every time my blood
sugar dipped or spiked...
00:13:08.55\00:13:11.59
I would have this
physical reaction, right,
00:13:11.65\00:13:14.56
I had a physiological
experience but those began to be
00:13:14.59\00:13:18.33
so associated in my mind
that once I was on the ramp,
00:13:18.36\00:13:22.06
I just flew down
the freeway at panic.
00:13:22.13\00:13:25.13
It's so much,
emotional reasoning...
00:13:25.17\00:13:27.24
what we call
"emotional reasoning"
00:13:27.27\00:13:29.24
where you look at your feelings
and you see them as a source
00:13:29.30\00:13:33.31
of evidence of what's going on
00:13:33.34\00:13:34.78
and then you believe them
and then the feelings escalate
00:13:34.81\00:13:38.05
and then you got even more
evidence that something's wrong
00:13:38.11\00:13:41.32
and it can snowball so badly
00:13:41.35\00:13:44.12
and this is where
someone who understands
00:13:44.15\00:13:46.59
the mind and how these
things happen... can get in...
00:13:46.62\00:13:49.56
and... did you
reach out to anyone or...?
00:13:49.59\00:13:51.63
Was there nobody
that understood or...?
00:13:51.66\00:13:54.80
Kessia: Sad to say,
the few times I had made
00:13:54.83\00:13:57.27
overtures to reach out,
they just were rebuffed... so...
00:13:57.33\00:14:01.30
a professor of mine
that I really trusted
00:14:01.34\00:14:06.17
asked me how I was doing,
00:14:06.21\00:14:07.54
I opened up my
heart a little bit to him
00:14:07.58\00:14:09.01
and he said, in essence,
"I'm so sorry to hear that,
00:14:09.04\00:14:12.48
imagine how hard it
would be for someone
00:14:12.51\00:14:14.78
who's not as close
to Jesus as you are... "
00:14:14.82\00:14:16.82
and I thought,
00:14:16.85\00:14:18.49
"Okay, I'll try to imagine
that, thanks so much... "
00:14:18.52\00:14:21.06
So it just...
00:14:21.09\00:14:22.92
Paul: Missed the mark by a mile.
00:14:22.96\00:14:24.56
Kessia: Yeah, yeah, it was...
it was really hard for me,
00:14:24.59\00:14:27.80
you know, 'cause
I'm getting up courage
00:14:27.83\00:14:29.53
to open up and tell someone,
"Yeah, my life is unravelling...
00:14:29.56\00:14:33.20
I'm not sleeping or eating
or speaking... correctly...
00:14:33.23\00:14:38.87
my relationships are a mess,
00:14:38.94\00:14:41.14
my internal life is
in complete disarray,
00:14:41.21\00:14:43.24
I'm failing my classes from
straight 'A' student to 'F'"
00:14:43.28\00:14:46.61
I mean, I was on the verge
of dropping out of college,
00:14:46.65\00:14:49.92
breaking up with
my... now husband,
00:14:49.98\00:14:52.15
I mean, leaving
the Faith, maybe,
00:14:52.19\00:14:54.32
because I just...
00:14:54.36\00:14:55.69
Shelly: So it was
serious affecting your ability
00:14:55.72\00:14:57.39
to function on a daily basis.
00:14:57.43\00:14:58.76
Kessia: Yes, absolutely...
work, school, relationships,
00:14:58.79\00:15:03.13
physical health, I
mean... the main thing was,
00:15:03.16\00:15:06.87
I couldn't sleep
because at night,
00:15:06.90\00:15:08.57
that's when... I mean,
as I lay in the dark...
00:15:08.60\00:15:11.94
I would stay up
as late as I could...
00:15:11.97\00:15:14.24
just... I would stay up
till 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning
00:15:14.28\00:15:17.45
and people would be like,
00:15:17.51\00:15:18.91
"What are you...
why are you doing that?"
00:15:18.95\00:15:20.45
And I'd be like,
"Well, I have so much to do,
00:15:20.48\00:15:21.95
I'm a double major and... I
work these hours... and... "
00:15:21.98\00:15:24.69
Shelly: You were
probably pushing yourself
00:15:24.72\00:15:26.52
to the point of
exhaustion so you could sleep.
00:15:26.55\00:15:28.32
Kessia:
Exactly... that's exactly it
00:15:28.39\00:15:29.79
because I didn't want to
be awake for five seconds
00:15:29.82\00:15:32.29
when I entered that dark place.
00:15:32.33\00:15:33.70
Jennifer: And then
sleep is so essential
00:15:33.73\00:15:35.50
to restoring the nervous system,
so you're not getting any sleep
00:15:35.53\00:15:38.13
so your nervous
system is even more raw
00:15:38.17\00:15:39.83
and you've totally
spiritualized the problem
00:15:39.87\00:15:41.90
to where you think it's about
you and God and really it's...
00:15:41.94\00:15:44.54
it's more about
what's happening in your body
00:15:44.57\00:15:48.48
with the hypoglycemia
and a very common disorder,
00:15:48.51\00:15:51.98
"nervous system fluke"
that a lot of people suffer from
00:15:52.01\00:15:54.78
did you eventually find
out about Panic Disorder?
00:15:54.82\00:15:57.65
Kessia: Yes and
it was such a relief.
00:15:57.72\00:15:59.29
Shelly: Where did
you find the definition?
00:15:59.32\00:16:01.52
Kessia: Well, I
think it was Teen Vogue.
00:16:01.56\00:16:03.49
Shelly: It wasn't on Google?
00:16:03.53\00:16:05.03
Kessia: Yeah, it
wasn't on Google,
00:16:05.06\00:16:06.43
this was... I was
working as a receptionist
00:16:06.49\00:16:09.16
and they had a whole
stack of magazines...
00:16:09.20\00:16:11.23
there was nothing
happening in the lobby
00:16:11.27\00:16:13.27
so I picked one up, so
I was looking through it
00:16:13.30\00:16:15.80
and there was... I
can still picture the page
00:16:15.84\00:16:19.01
just very brief
vignettes from three young women
00:16:19.04\00:16:21.78
who had experiences with
different mental illnesses
00:16:21.81\00:16:24.51
and one woman...
in two paragraphs...
00:16:24.55\00:16:27.98
described my life
and I thought, "What?"
00:16:28.02\00:16:31.39
that was... yeah,
that was a game changer
00:16:31.45\00:16:34.76
then I started reading about
panic attacks and panic disorder
00:16:34.79\00:16:38.56
I talked with my
family about that...
00:16:38.59\00:16:40.33
saw... "Oh, this
relative and that relative... "
00:16:40.36\00:16:42.96
then these people
in my nuclear family.
00:16:43.00\00:16:44.93
Jennifer: You had it
all over your family tree.
00:16:44.97\00:16:46.30
Kessia: Yes and then I...
so having that named was so...
00:16:46.33\00:16:51.17
because now, I
have permission to say,
00:16:51.21\00:16:53.48
"Oh, you're not
telling me the true feelings...
00:16:53.54\00:16:55.34
I'm just experiencing this. "
00:16:55.38\00:16:57.28
Jennifer: Exactly, now
you can sort of re-identify...
00:16:57.31\00:16:59.88
this isn't who you are,
this is something you have.
00:16:59.91\00:17:02.45
Paul: It seems you
have more choices now.
00:17:02.48\00:17:04.32
Shelly: Facts and feelings...
"Who's going to run the show?
00:17:04.35\00:17:08.42
Or can we find that middle
ground and begin to decipher
00:17:08.46\00:17:12.49
and integrate
that whole process... "
00:17:12.53\00:17:14.46
because God an speak to
us through our emotions,
00:17:14.50\00:17:16.97
He can prompt us and
say, "This isn't right... "
00:17:17.00\00:17:19.93
you pay attention to
that feeling... for a reason
00:17:19.97\00:17:23.71
but don't want it to
drive the entire being...
00:17:23.74\00:17:26.88
Kessia: Yeah, just
separating fact and feeling...
00:17:26.91\00:17:29.98
that was the first helpful
step and as Paul was saying,
00:17:30.01\00:17:32.88
having choices now,
00:17:32.91\00:17:34.25
"Oh, is this experience
because of A or B or C or D?"
00:17:34.28\00:17:38.35
And now I've got more
tools to be able to say,
00:17:38.39\00:17:40.96
"This isn't the voice of
God speaking doom to my soul
00:17:40.99\00:17:43.73
and letting me in on
the spiritual realities...
00:17:43.79\00:17:45.93
this is something else
that needs to be addressed. "
00:17:45.96\00:17:48.16
Was that the
beginning of your turnaround...
00:17:48.20\00:17:50.63
when you were able to
define it, give it a name...
00:17:50.67\00:17:52.93
and sort of separate
yourself from it a little bit?
00:17:52.97\00:17:55.30
That was a huge help,
definitely a turnaround...
00:17:55.34\00:17:59.61
my coping strategies
became coping strategies
00:17:59.67\00:18:02.41
instead of just
survival strategies,
00:18:02.44\00:18:04.28
now I'm able to do things
like the breathing regulation
00:18:04.31\00:18:08.32
that you mentioned at the start,
00:18:08.35\00:18:10.85
I'm able to...
to have activities
00:18:10.89\00:18:13.29
that I can kind of
go into default mode...
00:18:13.32\00:18:15.02
so, something for me... I
would walk and count my steps
00:18:15.06\00:18:18.23
just trying to get my brain out
of that... that loop... that...
00:18:18.29\00:18:21.56
Jennifer: Could you
break that down a little more?
00:18:21.63\00:18:22.96
So you'd do
something to distract yourself.
00:18:23.00\00:18:25.50
Kessia: Yes, distraction
was really crucial for me...
00:18:25.53\00:18:28.87
just to take me out of
that downward spiral...
00:18:28.90\00:18:32.17
just step out of it... so
I would go on long walks...
00:18:32.21\00:18:35.84
I would count and breathe
so maybe I'll count up to five
00:18:35.88\00:18:39.45
and then hold it and
then count down to five
00:18:39.48\00:18:41.85
or I'll just
count my steps to 800
00:18:41.88\00:18:44.45
or I'd read a really boring
tax book I had at my house,
00:18:44.52\00:18:48.26
just trying to
convince me of that.
00:18:48.29\00:18:50.56
Christina: Bringing
yourself back to reality...
00:18:50.59\00:18:52.29
Shelly: Going for
those long walks...
00:18:52.33\00:18:53.66
I don't know if anyone
ever explained it to you
00:18:53.70\00:18:56.16
but you actually activated three
different levels of coping.
00:18:56.20\00:18:58.87
Kessia: Tell me.
00:18:58.90\00:19:00.24
Shelly: Okay, by walking...
just the right and left process
00:19:00.30\00:19:05.01
you're triggering
the right and left brain
00:19:05.04\00:19:06.44
so sort of like, taking an issue
and shifting it back and forth
00:19:06.47\00:19:10.25
reason... feelings...
your thoughts... feelings...
00:19:10.28\00:19:13.72
until it kind of shifts out...
00:19:13.78\00:19:16.22
Jennifer: You're
bilateralizing your brain...
00:19:16.28\00:19:17.95
Shelly:
Processing while walking...
00:19:17.99\00:19:19.52
talking with a
friend... praying and walking...
00:19:19.55\00:19:21.72
very therapeutic...
00:19:21.76\00:19:23.56
so you tapped into something you
didn't even know you were doing.
00:19:23.59\00:19:26.63
Kessia: That
explains why walking
00:19:26.66\00:19:28.00
is still my favorite
therapy, I love that, thank you.
00:19:28.03\00:19:30.07
Jennifer: It's
super therapeutic...
00:19:30.10\00:19:31.70
super therapeutic...
that's how I feel.
00:19:31.73\00:19:33.27
Kessia: Yeah, so, that...
that was super helpful for me,
00:19:33.30\00:19:35.17
now I could start
coping in these kinds of ways.
00:19:35.20\00:19:37.14
Jennifer: But... so
you're saying that you're...
00:19:37.21\00:19:39.07
the spiritualization of
the problem caused you to lead
00:19:39.11\00:19:44.55
in order to sort of
decompress from the problem
00:19:44.58\00:19:47.95
you needed to un-spiritualize,
00:19:47.98\00:19:50.02
so you needed to ground yourself
which is physical reality...
00:19:50.05\00:19:53.05
and whether it be a
boring tax book or a walk...
00:19:53.09\00:19:55.12
just get into normalcy mode...
00:19:55.16\00:19:58.03
but I'm really interested in
the spirituality aspect of this
00:19:58.06\00:20:03.23
because we know that
everything's connected, right,
00:20:03.26\00:20:05.23
but sometimes those
connections go bad...
00:20:05.27\00:20:07.17
we're really into the
spirituality of mental health
00:20:07.20\00:20:09.70
but sometimes things
go awry with that process
00:20:09.74\00:20:13.41
and we can get overly spiritual,
in a way, about things
00:20:13.44\00:20:16.81
isn't that kind of
what was going on with you?
00:20:16.85\00:20:19.01
Kessia: Yeah, definitely,
00:20:19.05\00:20:20.38
one of the ways I think
about it for myself was...
00:20:20.42\00:20:24.02
God's move in my life...
and I think all of our lives
00:20:24.05\00:20:27.82
is to get us into better
and better touch with reality
00:20:27.86\00:20:31.59
and so, I had to make
a distance for myself,
00:20:31.63\00:20:34.76
when I was in the panic
attack, from spiritual things...
00:20:34.80\00:20:37.80
because I couldn't
receive them in a real way...
00:20:37.83\00:20:41.74
I couldn't understand them
truly... as they truly are...
00:20:41.80\00:20:44.37
so, to pray, for instance...
00:20:44.41\00:20:46.34
would intensify
my sense of panic
00:20:46.37\00:20:48.84
so prayer...
instead of being a refuge...
00:20:48.88\00:20:50.55
is now an unsafe place,
00:20:50.58\00:20:53.15
so I do have to
pray and read Scripture
00:20:53.18\00:20:55.52
when I'm not in a panic mode
00:20:55.55\00:20:57.42
but because of the way
that my mind was thinking,
00:20:57.45\00:21:00.59
I had to say, "You know what?
00:21:00.62\00:21:02.76
Scripture tells me
God is like this...
00:21:02.79\00:21:04.46
righteousness is like this...
the gospel is like this...
00:21:04.49\00:21:07.30
so, I need to
take... just trust that...
00:21:07.33\00:21:11.23
put that over here... "
and then, as you said Jennifer,
00:21:11.27\00:21:13.97
ground myself in the physical...
00:21:14.00\00:21:15.50
to keep myself
from misunderstanding
00:21:15.54\00:21:17.87
and misapplying...
00:21:17.91\00:21:19.24
Christina: It sounds
like... not that she was being
00:21:19.27\00:21:26.15
overly spiritual but that
00:21:26.18\00:21:27.52
you were
misunderstanding spirituality...
00:21:27.55\00:21:29.75
that kind of sounds like
that's what was going on.
00:21:29.78\00:21:34.29
Jennifer: But it's amazing how
many church members go through,
00:21:34.32\00:21:36.66
people that were involved in
religion... left... you know.
00:21:36.69\00:21:39.03
Paul: It's like, the Holy
Spirit does bring conviction
00:21:39.06\00:21:41.36
along with
encouragement... blessings...
00:21:41.40\00:21:43.33
but it sounds to me like
00:21:43.37\00:21:44.70
it moved from
conviction to condemnation...
00:21:44.73\00:21:46.87
so that's not from
God... that's from the enemy...
00:21:46.90\00:21:50.77
and so, to me, you're
learning how to separate out...
00:21:50.81\00:21:53.91
like you said, "Okay,
this isn't true about God...
00:21:53.94\00:21:57.41
and now as I realize
that... this isn't about God...
00:21:57.45\00:22:00.85
this is about distorted thinking
coming from the enemy... "
00:22:00.88\00:22:03.92
and then, you can go
for a walk and help in...
00:22:03.95\00:22:06.32
and get more
grounded in who God is
00:22:06.35\00:22:08.52
and a personal
relationship with Him...
00:22:08.59\00:22:10.69
because that move from
conviction to condemnation
00:22:10.73\00:22:12.99
really gets a lot of people
00:22:13.03\00:22:14.66
and then, the
natural progression is
00:22:14.73\00:22:16.67
"If God's condemned me,
that's not a good feeling...
00:22:16.70\00:22:20.27
so now, I got to move
farther away from that
00:22:20.30\00:22:22.74
which moves me
farther away from God. "
00:22:22.77\00:22:24.14
Kessia: Yeah, and I think
that distorted thinking is that
00:22:24.17\00:22:28.04
a perfect description of it,
00:22:28.08\00:22:29.48
so, having just to,
kind of, cast my faith on...
00:22:29.51\00:22:33.01
"Okay, whoever comes to me,
00:22:33.05\00:22:34.92
I will never... for
any reason cast away"
00:22:34.95\00:22:37.45
or something like that,
"Okay, that's sure and certain,
00:22:37.49\00:22:40.76
now I'm going for a walk...
I'm going to read a tax book
00:22:40.79\00:22:43.99
or I'm... " whatever...
00:22:44.03\00:22:45.36
to kind of
disentangle myself from that.
00:22:45.39\00:22:48.56
You know what
you're doing as well
00:22:48.60\00:22:50.13
which is really interesting
is you were moving the...
00:22:50.17\00:22:52.50
from EQ to IQ...
00:22:52.53\00:22:55.10
when you read a
tax book, for example,
00:22:55.14\00:22:57.54
or when you go outside...
00:22:57.57\00:22:58.91
so that emotional
level was lessening
00:22:58.94\00:23:01.94
because you were bringing
in the intellectual side
00:23:01.98\00:23:04.31
and so, that's one of the things
00:23:04.38\00:23:06.25
that seemed to be able to help
you to come back to reality...
00:23:06.28\00:23:09.05
you'd be able to reason
through what was going on
00:23:09.08\00:23:10.85
and understand it.
00:23:10.89\00:23:12.25
Plus just the calming
effect of adrenal glands
00:23:12.29\00:23:18.76
and what's going
on inside the brain...
00:23:18.79\00:23:20.73
we see something in the grass
00:23:20.76\00:23:23.23
and we assume it's a
snake and flail arms going...
00:23:23.26\00:23:27.40
we're flooded with
adrenalin and then we go,
00:23:27.44\00:23:30.27
"Oh it's just the hose... "
00:23:30.31\00:23:31.71
well, the adrenalin
is still in your body...
00:23:31.74\00:23:34.94
you have to
flush that out somehow
00:23:34.98\00:23:36.61
so again, by walking,
00:23:36.64\00:23:37.98
you gave
yourself the best therapy
00:23:38.01\00:23:40.68
that you could have ever done
00:23:40.72\00:23:42.05
and that probably was
just God prompting you...
00:23:42.08\00:23:43.45
you didn't even know it.
00:23:43.49\00:23:44.82
Christina: And literally,
the Cortisol comes out
00:23:44.85\00:23:47.56
through our sweat glands,
00:23:47.59\00:23:48.96
I mean, that's
what's so incredible
00:23:48.99\00:23:50.36
the new studies have
found that the sweat...
00:23:50.39\00:23:52.53
literally the
Cortisol hormone...
00:23:52.56\00:23:53.93
the stress hormone can
come out through our sweat.
00:23:54.00\00:23:55.93
Jennifer: So when you exercise,
it helps manage stress.
00:23:55.96\00:23:58.13
Christina: Right,
and same with tears
00:23:58.17\00:23:59.50
but imagine... maybe we can
just exercise a little bit more
00:23:59.53\00:24:01.90
and then we won't have to
have those breakdowns and...
00:24:01.94\00:24:03.51
Jennifer: But the
breakdowns are good for you.
00:24:03.54\00:24:05.51
Christina: Right,
sometimes they are good,
00:24:05.54\00:24:07.48
sometimes they
can be really bad.
00:24:07.51\00:24:08.84
Paul: And that
Cortisol keeps us up at night
00:24:08.88\00:24:10.61
that's why we
physically can't sleep.
00:24:10.65\00:24:12.55
Jennifer: Oh... so,
working out during the day
00:24:12.58\00:24:15.58
helps get rid of
excess Cortisol...
00:24:15.62\00:24:17.39
it might help you
sleep... or crying...
00:24:17.42\00:24:19.22
Christina:
Definitely, that's number one.
00:24:19.25\00:24:21.02
Jennifer: Now I
have an excuse to cry.
00:24:21.06\00:24:22.76
Shelly: I got to share the
"onion" thing real quick...
00:24:22.79\00:24:25.69
they did a chemical
study of the tears...
00:24:25.73\00:24:29.06
when you chop an
onion, you know, crying...
00:24:29.10\00:24:32.40
Jennifer: It paralyzes you.
00:24:32.43\00:24:33.84
Shelly: Yeah, temporarily...
00:24:33.87\00:24:35.20
but the genetic
composition of tears...
00:24:35.24\00:24:37.81
when we have an
emotional release...
00:24:37.84\00:24:40.38
had endorphins in it.
00:24:40.44\00:24:42.21
The tears that you cry
when you're cutting an onion
00:24:42.24\00:24:45.08
does not have the
God-given endorphins
00:24:45.11\00:24:46.98
that calms and relaxes the body
00:24:47.02\00:24:48.92
so tell me if
God is not involved
00:24:48.98\00:24:51.42
when we need to
cry in release...
00:24:51.45\00:24:53.89
Paul: And grieve our losses.
00:24:53.92\00:24:55.56
Shelly: A lot of
people do a disservice,
00:24:55.59\00:24:58.06
whether it's in
church or other settings,
00:24:58.09\00:25:00.50
where they're just
trying to hush down the problem
00:25:00.53\00:25:03.06
maybe that's just
actually the healthiest process
00:25:03.13\00:25:05.63
a person can be having.
00:25:05.67\00:25:07.10
Paul: It seems like
a lot of the Psalms...
00:25:07.14\00:25:08.77
there are a lot of
cries and pleas to God...
00:25:08.80\00:25:11.81
where they're
processing directly with God
00:25:11.84\00:25:14.81
but like you're
saying, Kessia...
00:25:14.84\00:25:16.71
it's not always
possible to do that
00:25:16.75\00:25:18.68
so God meets
you in the tax book,
00:25:18.71\00:25:20.42
He meets you as you're walking.
00:25:20.48\00:25:22.12
Shelly: Or sitting on the
floor just trying to breath
00:25:22.15\00:25:25.49
in your nose and out your mouth
00:25:25.52\00:25:27.06
to get yourself to calm down
00:25:27.09\00:25:28.52
and to think clear...
to make the next decision.
00:25:28.56\00:25:31.69
Kessia: Right... and
you mentioned the Psalms...
00:25:31.76\00:25:34.66
and those became
really helpful for me too
00:25:34.70\00:25:37.03
because I wanted to stay
in touch with spiritual things
00:25:37.07\00:25:39.53
even in my panic...
because, I mean, ideally...
00:25:39.57\00:25:42.27
it's like, "Oh, I
prayed through it" right,
00:25:42.30\00:25:44.54
that would have
felt very righteous to me
00:25:44.57\00:25:46.61
but I really
wasn't able to do that
00:25:46.64\00:25:49.14
and God did give
me the wisdom to say,
00:25:49.18\00:25:51.61
"If this is pushing you farther
00:25:51.68\00:25:53.28
into a false
understanding of the world,
00:25:53.31\00:25:56.28
take a step back... "
00:25:56.32\00:25:57.65
but I started
memorizing the Psalms
00:25:57.69\00:26:00.59
and then when panic would come
00:26:00.62\00:26:02.76
and I wanted the
assurance of Scripture...
00:26:02.79\00:26:04.89
I wanted that comfort...
00:26:04.96\00:26:06.29
I could repeat those words
00:26:06.33\00:26:07.66
without having
to think about them
00:26:07.70\00:26:09.03
but they're holy words...
I'm repeating them back to Jesus
00:26:09.06\00:26:12.10
but I'm not having to
engage in the sense of pleading
00:26:12.13\00:26:15.30
that could just increase my
feelings of stress and anxiety,
00:26:15.34\00:26:19.17
that was really very helpful.
00:26:19.21\00:26:21.41
Paul: Instead of
hoping against hope
00:26:21.44\00:26:22.81
that somehow prayer
is going to change you...
00:26:22.84\00:26:24.75
that you're
going to change God...
00:26:24.78\00:26:26.11
you're getting...
your focusing more on
00:26:26.15\00:26:27.48
what God's Word
has already said.
00:26:27.52\00:26:28.85
Kessia: Exactly,
because once I realized,
00:26:28.88\00:26:30.99
"Oh, I'm living... I'm
living with these feelings
00:26:31.05\00:26:34.26
that are out of line with the
truth of God and Scripture...
00:26:34.29\00:26:37.66
I need to get my
mind to get around this
00:26:37.69\00:26:41.00
so even if my feelings never do,
00:26:41.03\00:26:42.60
I know I can rely
on that and I can know,
00:26:42.63\00:26:45.77
this will pass...
00:26:45.80\00:26:47.14
it will not be
forever, God is still God...
00:26:47.17\00:26:49.74
you are still His daughter.
00:26:49.80\00:26:51.14
Shelly: The only
thing that goes with that...
00:26:51.17\00:26:53.98
and I teach this to people is,
00:26:54.01\00:26:55.71
to remind yourself that
00:26:55.74\00:26:57.55
a panic attack is not
going to last for a month,
00:26:57.58\00:27:00.28
it's not going
to last for a day,
00:27:00.32\00:27:01.88
it's not probably even do
an hour's kind of limit...
00:27:01.92\00:27:07.16
it's minutes...
00:27:07.19\00:27:08.72
we can survive minutes of things
00:27:08.76\00:27:10.63
and it just kind of brings
it into more manageable place
00:27:10.66\00:27:14.90
but you know, that's
time and skills and practice.
00:27:14.93\00:27:17.57
Kessia: Yeah, and realizing
for me that my greatest fear
00:27:17.60\00:27:21.97
wasn't this or this or this that
I was getting panicked about,
00:27:22.00\00:27:24.81
it was the fear of fear...
00:27:24.84\00:27:26.44
Shelly: Exactly,
so that adrenalin
00:27:26.47\00:27:28.41
was flying through your
body and you didn't know it
00:27:28.44\00:27:30.01
and you didn't
know what to do with it.
00:27:30.05\00:27:31.38
Kessia: Yeah, but God
delivered me... hallelujah.
00:27:31.41\00:27:33.58
Shelly: Yeah... amen.
00:27:33.62\00:27:35.18
Well, we could go on
and on about this topic,
00:27:35.22\00:27:38.75
one in... almost
one in five people
00:27:38.79\00:27:41.52
are diagnosed with
an anxiety disorder
00:27:41.56\00:27:44.29
at some point in their lifetime,
00:27:44.33\00:27:45.73
that's how
common these things are
00:27:45.76\00:27:47.10
and so you're in good company
if you struggle with anxiety,
00:27:47.13\00:27:50.37
there's lots of us out there...
00:27:50.40\00:27:51.73
you're also in good
company with a loving God
00:27:51.77\00:27:54.57
who is big enough for this,
who can show you the way out
00:27:54.60\00:27:57.54
even if somehow it
got associated with Him
00:27:57.57\00:28:00.08
and your religious
experience was challenged...
00:28:00.11\00:28:02.11
courage...
00:28:02.14\00:28:03.51