Welcome to A
Multitude of Counselors
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where we admit the damage
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because we know
that can be healed.
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Today, we're going to be talking
about surviving sexual trauma,
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surviving sexual
trauma... heavy topic...
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but we're going to try to do it
justice... by the grace of God.
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Sexual trauma is the
lingering result of sexual abuse
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and often this takes the form
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of what we call
"Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder"
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PTSD is
characterized by three things,
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nightmares, flashbacks,
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and what we call
"extreme triggerability. "
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Whenever that person gets
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confronted with
something that reminds them
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of the sexual abuse event,
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they go back there, so
to speak, in their mind.
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It's thought that the symptoms
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are the brain's way of
trying to process that trauma
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that it somehow
hasn't gotten fully processed
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and the brain
keeps bringing it to mind
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in order to process it through.
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The prevalence of sexual abuse
is higher than you would think.
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One in three women globally
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are either raped,
beaten or coerced into sex.
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One in 5 girls and
one in 20 boys in the US
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are victims of
child sexual abuse,
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you know, sexual trauma occurs
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when essentially... if
I were to boil it down...
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when someone...
a greater power...
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a power advantage over
another, uses that power
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to fulfill sexual desires...
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and that person
then becomes a victim.
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They do it without consent
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or they do it with
uninformed consent.
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So the fact that the
person that's being violated
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did not physically fight
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doesn't mean that
they were not abused.
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If it's a child or a person who
is in another way "vulnerable"
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mentally
retarded... mentally ill...
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or much less power
than a perpetrator,
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if there's a
severe power imbalance,
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that's really
uninformed consent,
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even if they don't fight.
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So we need to understand
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the subtleties
involved in sexual abuse.
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Most of these
assaults, by-the-way
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are never reported
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because the victims fear
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that if they go
before a tribunal of people
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that often reminds
them of the perpetrator,
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in one way or another,
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they're the same
demographic, so to speak,
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the same thing is going
to happen all over again
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because they're not
going to be believed.
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So one of the most important
things we can do for victims
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is, we can listen to their
story and we can believe them
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at least temporarily until
we have evidence to the contrary
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so, often victims are a part
of a System that works very hard
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to sustain the
reputation of the perpetrator...
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the perpetrator is
often almost indispensable
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or apparently
indispensable to that System
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and, therefore, they are
preferred over the victim
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and it's easier to
disbelieve the victim
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and believe the perpetrator.
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So, these are some of
the tragedies involved
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in sexual abuse situations
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and we're going to have
a very good friend of mine
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unpack this for us today,
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I'm really thankful to
have you here, Nicole Parker.
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Nicole is a Counselor...
Biblical Counselor...
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Master's degree in
Biblical Counseling, correct?
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Hmmm... hmmm...
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You live in Tennessee
with your husband, Allan,
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and he teaches
Theology at University
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and you just help...
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just about every
person that comes to you
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from what I know about you
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and you raise your
children, they're in Tennessee.
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I try my best.
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I'm so thankful
to have you here,
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let me also introduce the
Counselors on our Panel today,
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we have Marriage and
Family Therapist, Paul Coneff,
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we have Licensed
Professional Counselor...
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oh no, I'm sorry,
you're from Texas...
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and Licensed
Professional Counselor,
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Shelly Wiggins from Michigan
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and Biblical Counselor,
David Guerrero from Wisconsin
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we're so thankful to have
each one of you here today
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and we want to
get into the story
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right away here,
when did this start?
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I'm not really
sure how old I was
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I know I was very small
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because I can
remember reaching up to
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turn off light
switches and things like that
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but my abuser
died when I was ten
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and it happened for
several years before that,
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there were
multiple incidents of abuse
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and because he
was a close caregiver,
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he was a family
member, not my father but...
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the only other close
family member who I trusted...
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the only other
man that I trusted
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so it was very traumatic to me.
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Jennifer: Oh, that
breaks my heart, Nicole,
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what kind of
effect... how did it play out?
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Nicole: Well, you know, I was
able to function fairly well...
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I mean, I
struggled with depression
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and I've looked
through some of my report cards
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and I know that my
fifth- and sixth-grade teacher
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noted that my depression
was affecting my behavior,
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and my ability to function
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but most of the time,
people just chalked it up to,
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"She's too ADD to be able
to function very well... "
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when I was 15 I...
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Jennifer: They
though you had ADD?
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Nicole: Yeah, my neighbor
re-traumatized me when I was 15
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by attempting to drag me
into his house to assault me
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and that was when things really
started happening in my mind.
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I... on the way home from
being at that neighbor's house
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because I just had gone over
to invite him over for supper
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and walking home
from there, I prayed...
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I remember... and
I was so angry at God
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and I just screamed at Him,
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I don't even remember if
it was out loud or in my mind,
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I'll never forget...
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I just said, "What
kind of God are you?
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What kind of Father are you
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that you let that
stuff happen to your kids?"
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And I said, "I don't
know what kind of God you are
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but I'm through with
this stupid 'Trust God' thing
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because you
never take care of me,
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I always have to
take care of myself. "
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Jennifer: You were raised
in a religious home right?
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Nlcole: Yeah, I grew up
going to church every week
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we had family
worships all the time
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nobody knew... because
I didn't tell my parents
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I didn't tell
anybody what was going on,
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nobody knew what I
was going through...
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that I had these nightmares,
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I would freak out every
time my boyfriend would touch me
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and I would just go cold
inside with fear and anger
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but I had no idea
what was really going on,
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I had no understanding
of abuse and the trauma
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that comes from it
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and from that moment on,
when I prayed that prayer,
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even though I look
back now and I realize
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God gave me the
strength to fight that man,
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I fought him at his door,
I held on to his door frame,
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I got away from him...
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all he managed
to do was kiss me...
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Jennifer: This was
the second guy, right?
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Nicole: With the neighbor
man but still, I blamed God,
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and that's what
we always like to do,
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you know, "If you
were just loving enough,
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if you were just strong enough,
you would have protected me. "
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I didn't understand.
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Jennifer: And the weird
thing is that God can take it...
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He understands that
we have limited ability
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to process these
extreme events and He can...
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He can take it
when we get that angry.
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He never left me.
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Nicole: But from that moment on,
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I began having
more anxiety issues,
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I started having panic attacks
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which I didn't know
what a panic attack was...
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I had never heard
of anything like that,
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I just thought I was crazy.
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Shelly: When you're holding
in all of those emotions,
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whether it's sad, fear, anger,
and then, in a pressure cooker
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that's what
creates that panic...
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Nicole: Right, all sin starts
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with a cycle of
unbelief and pride.
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If I think God
can't take care of me
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or won't take care of me
because He's not loving enough
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I'm going to decide
that I'll have to step in
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and be God... which is pride...
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and all abuse is
a strong temptation
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toward unbelief and pride.
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Lucifer, Adam and
Eve... from then on...
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every sin cycle starts with,
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"I doubt that God is loving"
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and then I start
trying to fill in the blank.
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Paul: And one of the ways the
enemy sets us up for that is,
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he sets you up to be
hurt... to be betrayed...
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to be abused... so he
sets you up to be hurt
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and he slips lies in
the first-person language,
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"I can't trust God...
I'm in this on my own... "
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and then we're off and running
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and then we end
up hurting ourselves.
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Sometimes the worst of it
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is if we're raised
in a Christian home...
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and we're going
to church every week
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and nothing ever
seems to touch this pain,
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so we think the gospel
doesn't even apply to it.
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Jennifer: "Somehow, I'm
different than everybody...
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look at all these
people... are so happy
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and it works for them
but it doesn't work for me. "
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Nicole: I can see all my friends
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who are having a wonderful
time with their boyfriends,
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and I go "cold fish" inside
every time somebody touches me
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or after he touches me
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and then, I would
have panic attacks
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if a man walked behind me...
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I started
sleeping fully clothed,
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I would wear jeans at
night because I was so terrified
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somebody might come
through my window and rape me
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and I would lie there
in bed without shoes on
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and worry...
"Should I put on shoes...
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because if somebody
comes through the window
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and kidnaps me at gunpoint
and marches me off into the dark
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and I don't have shoes on...
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maybe, I should
just be wearing shoes"
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and I knew it was crazy,
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I knew this wasn't a
normal way to think or function
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and I wouldn't have dreamed
of telling any of my friends
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what was really
going on in my mind
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but I just had to
live the double life...
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laugh and pretend
like everything is fine
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during the day and
live in the secret terror.
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Did you connect the dots between
what had happened and these...
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the fact that you
were sleeping in jeans?
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Not at all, I had no
idea what was wrong with me
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and I never would
have told anybody,
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that's why I
didn't get any counseling,
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I didn't get any help,
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finally, when I was 18...
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I started telling
a few close friends
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and I told my sisters
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and they were very
supportive and helpful
00:09:34.77\00:09:36.77
but it was really...
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it was when I was 16 that
I came into a boarding school
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where it was a safe environment,
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I was surrounded by people
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who were really
showing me what Jesus was like,
00:09:48.72\00:09:50.79
a Jesus I could believe in
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and I started reading the
book, "The Desire of Ages"
00:09:52.19\00:09:53.96
and when I read that first
chapter of The Desire of Ages,
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I remember, I
got tears in my eyes
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as I read the last
couple of sentences
00:10:00.56\00:10:03.03
and I thought,
00:10:03.06\00:10:05.10
"Maybe this is a God
I can trust after all...
00:10:05.13\00:10:08.27
if that's really who He is,
00:10:08.30\00:10:10.74
maybe I could even
trust Him with my life... "
00:10:10.81\00:10:13.68
and as I read
further, I realized,
00:10:13.71\00:10:15.58
"This is a God I can
trust with my life... "
00:10:15.61\00:10:17.38
so what started unraveling...
that terrible web of lies
00:10:17.41\00:10:21.78
and fear and anger
that was holding me trapped
00:10:21.82\00:10:24.19
was... being surrounded with
a loving community of people
00:10:24.22\00:10:27.59
who acted like Jesus
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and reading about a
Jesus I could trust.
00:10:28.99\00:10:32.13
Did it completely... all
the symptoms and everything
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go away at that point... or talk
to us about the long stretch.
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I think it could have
been resolved much more quickly
00:10:38.60\00:10:41.87
if I'd had some guided
help, some kind of counseling
00:10:41.90\00:10:45.14
but I didn't know where to turn
00:10:45.17\00:10:47.01
in the end, one of
my best friend's moms...
00:10:47.04\00:10:51.08
I talked with her
because I'd always trusted her,
00:10:51.11\00:10:53.98
I had grown up around
her and she was a safe person
00:10:54.02\00:10:56.82
and I talked with her
about what had happened
00:10:56.85\00:10:59.25
and she said, "I was
sexually abused too...
00:10:59.32\00:11:01.52
and I'm here now and I'm okay...
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and I have a home and
a family and I'm happy. "
00:11:04.53\00:11:06.66
Shelly: Powerful to have that
validation to be acknowledged.
00:11:06.70\00:11:10.57
Pause...
00:11:10.60\00:11:12.73
Paul: What difference did
it make for you to have her
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share her story with
you which normalized it
00:11:14.87\00:11:18.01
not that we want this to happen
00:11:18.04\00:11:19.37
but when she
was able to do that,
00:11:19.41\00:11:20.74
what difference
did that make for you?
00:11:20.78\00:11:22.11
Nicole: It's hard to even
describe the power of the story
00:11:22.14\00:11:25.25
of knowing somebody
else can come alongside me
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and say, "The
gospel applies to this too"
00:11:28.28\00:11:30.05
because I never heard
any sermons talking about it,
00:11:30.09\00:11:33.36
I didn't know
who I could talk to
00:11:33.39\00:11:35.32
how do you just bring this up?
00:11:35.36\00:11:37.19
"By-the-way, somebody used
to rape me when I was a kid...
00:11:37.23\00:11:40.26
how are you... pass the salt. "
00:11:40.30\00:11:43.06
You don't know who to talk to,
00:11:43.10\00:11:44.60
where you turn...
00:11:44.63\00:11:45.97
and it took me a long
time to come to the point
00:11:46.00\00:11:48.60
where I felt safe enough
to be honest and vulnerable
00:11:48.64\00:11:51.04
with anybody...
00:11:51.07\00:11:52.41
Jennifer: You know
what this does to me?
00:11:52.44\00:11:54.04
It really makes me determined
to do everything I can
00:11:54.08\00:11:56.64
to make sure church is
a safe place for victims
00:11:56.68\00:11:59.85
and also a place where
they can experience healing
00:11:59.88\00:12:03.02
rather than re-traumatization,
00:12:03.08\00:12:04.65
it makes me all the
more committed to that.
00:12:04.69\00:12:06.35
Paul: And that also means,
00:12:06.39\00:12:07.72
we have to be able to
talk about these things
00:12:07.76\00:12:09.69
in a way that gives people hope.
00:12:09.72\00:12:11.29
Jennifer: So
there are two extremes,
00:12:11.33\00:12:13.16
one is just
ruminating and wallowing
00:12:13.19\00:12:15.00
and not really getting help
and not having any solution...
00:12:15.03\00:12:17.83
and the other
thing is to shut it down
00:12:17.87\00:12:20.10
and not talk about it at all
00:12:20.14\00:12:21.47
so we need to
be... you're saying,
00:12:21.50\00:12:22.84
talk about it in a
constructive manner, correct?
00:12:22.87\00:12:25.27
Paul: It invites people to
know that as they come forward,
00:12:25.31\00:12:27.44
they're going to be listened to,
they are going to be heard...
00:12:27.48\00:12:29.54
they're going to
be believed and...
00:12:29.61\00:12:31.25
that we've got something
for them that makes a difference
00:12:31.31\00:12:33.52
and we just happened to
have Jesus stripped naked,
00:12:33.58\00:12:35.95
physically violated,
shamed and humiliated on the...
00:12:35.98\00:12:38.32
hung on the cross... crying out,
00:12:38.35\00:12:40.16
"My God, my God, why
have you forsaken me?"
00:12:40.19\00:12:42.06
It's not coincidental,
00:12:42.12\00:12:43.79
this is an intentional,
willful fulfillment of prophecy
00:12:43.83\00:12:47.26
that's telling these people,
"What happened was wrong,
00:12:47.30\00:12:50.70
I've gone
through it, I understand
00:12:50.77\00:12:53.10
and if you let me connect
my story with your story... "
00:12:53.13\00:12:55.50
I mean, this lady
sharing her story...
00:12:55.54\00:12:57.37
Jesus suffering is He's saying,
00:12:57.41\00:12:59.31
"This is my story...
to connect with yours. "
00:12:59.34\00:13:01.34
Jennifer: That's
right, and also the story
00:13:01.38\00:13:03.41
of the premiere disciple,
00:13:03.45\00:13:04.78
Mary
Magdalene... was also a victim
00:13:04.81\00:13:06.48
and so, we have that example too
00:13:06.51\00:13:08.62
Jesus gave her an
unqualified compliment
00:13:08.68\00:13:11.25
that He didn't give to
any of His other disciples,
00:13:11.29\00:13:13.69
"Wherever the
gospel is preached,
00:13:13.72\00:13:15.26
tell what she has done... "
00:13:15.29\00:13:16.62
and He gave her that
compliment and she was a victim
00:13:16.66\00:13:19.49
like, she
recovered to that point
00:13:19.53\00:13:21.16
where He could give
her that commendation
00:13:21.20\00:13:22.80
and she was a victim as
well so we're in good company
00:13:22.83\00:13:25.13
yeah...
00:13:25.17\00:13:26.60
David: Like the other
thing that I'm hearing here
00:13:26.63\00:13:28.07
which is powerful is that there
was this incidence of abuse
00:13:28.10\00:13:33.84
and then, there's
this child that is saying,
00:13:33.88\00:13:37.38
"What's happening to me?"
00:13:37.41\00:13:38.75
But in the journey, God
provided a safe place...
00:13:38.78\00:13:42.28
and when you
had that safe place,
00:13:42.32\00:13:44.59
you were able to then begin to
00:13:44.62\00:13:46.72
get a better understanding
and then share your story
00:13:46.76\00:13:50.13
so God is journeying with us
in our trauma, in our sadness,
00:13:50.16\00:13:54.53
and He's setting
a safe place for us.
00:13:54.56\00:13:57.67
Jennifer: In other
words, you're saying
00:13:57.70\00:13:59.03
that an
environment was created for her
00:13:59.07\00:14:00.40
where she could face the issue
00:14:00.44\00:14:01.77
and that's what we
can do in the church...
00:14:01.80\00:14:03.51
is we can create
such a safe environment
00:14:03.54\00:14:05.31
that people don't have
to be "stuff it anymore... "
00:14:05.34\00:14:07.64
they can actually talk
about it and process it
00:14:07.68\00:14:10.05
appropriately
and in a healthy way.
00:14:10.08\00:14:12.55
We can actually do something
to create that environment.
00:14:12.58\00:14:15.42
Shelly: Because
the truth is, Nicole,
00:14:15.45\00:14:17.35
when... gathering
from your story... is that
00:14:17.39\00:14:20.56
not always is our
biological family system
00:14:20.59\00:14:23.69
or our immediate... what
would be "support system"
00:14:23.73\00:14:27.53
we would hope... it
doesn't always function that way
00:14:27.56\00:14:31.50
so, could you share perhaps
with people who are watching
00:14:31.53\00:14:35.44
that don't feel
safe enough to share
00:14:35.47\00:14:37.21
with their
immediate "support people... "
00:14:37.24\00:14:40.21
how do you create
that, where do you begin?
00:14:40.28\00:14:43.18
Paul: What does that
support look like for them?
00:14:43.24\00:14:44.88
David: That safe
place to process the pain
00:14:44.91\00:14:46.95
and then share for
that healing to take place.
00:14:47.02\00:14:48.98
Nicole: I really had to pray,
00:14:49.02\00:14:50.42
I didn't talk to my parents
growing up, for whatever reason,
00:14:50.45\00:14:54.56
I didn't know how to
tell them about this trauma
00:14:54.59\00:14:57.23
but God put people into my
life... mothers in Israel...
00:14:57.29\00:15:01.83
friends who had
suffered similarly
00:15:01.86\00:15:04.43
and just knowing, "I'm
not alone... I'm not crazy"
00:15:04.50\00:15:07.34
helped so much... and, you know,
00:15:07.37\00:15:10.31
I didn't have counseling
00:15:10.34\00:15:11.81
which I highly
recommend for people to have...
00:15:11.84\00:15:13.84
somebody who's a safe
place... getting good books...
00:15:13.88\00:15:18.08
I really recommend the
resources from Dan Allender,
00:15:18.11\00:15:21.25
"The Wounded Heart" and
"Healing the Wounded Heart"
00:15:21.28\00:15:24.55
they were so powerful
in helping me to figure out
00:15:24.59\00:15:28.22
how to apply the gospel
to my life and my situation
00:15:28.29\00:15:31.76
but along the way, building
community with safe people
00:15:31.79\00:15:35.40
who cared genuinely about
me was so life transformative,
00:15:35.43\00:15:39.03
looking unto Jesus...
00:15:39.07\00:15:41.60
the author and finisher of
our faith... is the solution...
00:15:41.67\00:15:44.67
but if I'm not looking to Jesus,
00:15:44.74\00:15:46.88
I'm going to fall off the narrow
way... into one of two sides,
00:15:46.91\00:15:49.54
I'm going to look at myself
as more than what God says,
00:15:49.58\00:15:52.15
"I don't need community, I
don't need anybody to help me,
00:15:52.18\00:15:54.72
I can do this...
I'm strong enough... "
00:15:54.75\00:15:56.15
that's not a Biblical
perspective on myself,
00:15:56.18\00:15:58.95
or I'll swing to the
opposite side and I'll say,
00:15:58.99\00:16:01.72
"Not even God can do something
00:16:01.76\00:16:03.32
with somebody
as messed up as me"
00:16:03.36\00:16:05.39
and either way,
I'm looking at self
00:16:05.43\00:16:07.36
and I'm seeing myself through
an unbiblical perspective.
00:16:07.40\00:16:10.53
So, it's having a
healing community around
00:16:10.57\00:16:12.93
who can say, "No, you
can't do this all by yourself...
00:16:12.97\00:16:15.94
but yes, we can do it together
00:16:15.97\00:16:18.27
because the Law of God
is to love God first...
00:16:18.31\00:16:20.24
to love our
neighbors as ourselves... "
00:16:20.28\00:16:21.94
we have to live with vulnerable
community with somebody
00:16:21.98\00:16:24.31
in order to heal.
00:16:24.35\00:16:25.68
You said you
didn't have counseling
00:16:25.71\00:16:28.08
but you did... in a way
because you did have mentors
00:16:28.12\00:16:30.62
and people that discipled
you and mothers in Israel
00:16:30.65\00:16:33.12
as you said, and
really... the church...
00:16:33.15\00:16:35.82
and I'm probably
getting myself into trouble here
00:16:35.86\00:16:37.53
if the church functioned the
way God ordained that it should,
00:16:37.59\00:16:40.20
we'd all be put out of business
00:16:40.26\00:16:41.86
because all of this
would be happening organically
00:16:41.90\00:16:44.80
within the body of Christ.
00:16:44.83\00:16:46.17
Nicole: That's right,
God puts us into families
00:16:46.20\00:16:49.04
as His way that we're
supposed to learn who He is,
00:16:49.07\00:16:51.67
that's how a baby is supposed
to understand about love
00:16:51.74\00:16:54.31
even before they know
that there's a Creator
00:16:54.34\00:16:56.14
and redemption.
00:16:56.18\00:16:57.51
Shelly: But the
community of faith is
00:16:57.55\00:16:59.41
where we develop
that family of choice
00:16:59.45\00:17:01.28
biologically... our
most intimate connections...
00:17:01.32\00:17:06.25
sometimes fail...
because we're human too.
00:17:06.29\00:17:08.59
Nicole: All of our families
fail in some significant ways
00:17:08.62\00:17:11.43
of showing us
the character of God
00:17:11.46\00:17:13.23
because parents
have to live perfectly
00:17:13.26\00:17:15.00
and now as a parent
myself, I understand...
00:17:15.03\00:17:16.90
I don't live perfectly,
00:17:16.93\00:17:18.70
there have never
been any perfect parents,
00:17:18.73\00:17:20.84
so all families
fail in some ways
00:17:20.87\00:17:23.30
of reflecting God's character
perfectly to their children
00:17:23.34\00:17:26.11
and that's why God has a
secondary family at the church
00:17:26.14\00:17:28.88
to come and
fill in the blanks...
00:17:28.91\00:17:30.58
to show us what
God is really like
00:17:30.61\00:17:32.81
and help us in
all of our feebleness
00:17:32.85\00:17:35.02
to support one another.
00:17:35.05\00:17:37.05
So you're saying,
00:17:37.09\00:17:38.42
it's not casting a bad
reflection on your earthly...
00:17:38.45\00:17:40.66
your natural family...
00:17:40.69\00:17:42.02
that your more deep
spiritual needs are met
00:17:42.06\00:17:44.73
in your
supernatural family because
00:17:44.76\00:17:46.53
it's true of all families
that they're not going to give
00:17:46.59\00:17:50.10
that person everything they need
00:17:50.13\00:17:51.93
so we all need
the body of Christ.
00:17:51.97\00:17:53.77
And it gives hope,
00:17:53.80\00:17:55.14
I think most of us
who have been abused
00:17:55.17\00:17:57.54
have from family of origins...
00:17:57.57\00:17:59.41
places where we can see
there was significant harm
00:17:59.44\00:18:02.11
from within our family
of origin like myself...
00:18:02.14\00:18:04.81
and when we have the standard
in our minds that's unrealistic,
00:18:04.85\00:18:10.02
like, "Because my
parents failed me,
00:18:10.05\00:18:11.62
I will never be able to
be who I could have been. "
00:18:11.65\00:18:13.92
Jennifer: "I'm
totally ruined for life. "
00:18:13.96\00:18:15.29
Nicole: Right, we cheat God
00:18:15.32\00:18:16.86
out of being able to
do what He wants to do.
00:18:16.89\00:18:20.03
He says, "No,
you have no idea...
00:18:20.06\00:18:21.86
I heal people through so
many different avenues... "
00:18:21.90\00:18:24.67
He brings us into community
00:18:24.70\00:18:27.47
and it doesn't mean you
have to have 50 safe people...
00:18:27.50\00:18:29.30
people are just like...
00:18:29.34\00:18:30.67
"You don't know the
people that are around me...
00:18:30.71\00:18:32.04
there's nobody
that I can trust. "
00:18:32.07\00:18:33.41
But maybe there's one...
and just having one or two
00:18:33.44\00:18:37.11
and the first
people that I went to
00:18:37.15\00:18:39.51
often didn't know what to say,
00:18:39.55\00:18:40.88
they could say, "Well, I'm
sorry you went through that...
00:18:40.92\00:18:42.98
hope you feel better... "
00:18:43.02\00:18:44.35
they didn't know how to help me,
00:18:44.39\00:18:45.72
they didn't know
the gospel applied
00:18:45.75\00:18:47.22
but I kept talking
to people and it helped.
00:18:47.26\00:18:50.29
So there's a training
process to equip people
00:18:50.33\00:18:52.53
to be able to deal
with situations like this
00:18:52.59\00:18:54.73
and isn't that something
that you are kind of into
00:18:54.76\00:18:56.70
at this point, Nicole?
00:18:56.77\00:18:58.10
Nicole: Yes, when I
first was called by the Lord
00:18:58.13\00:19:01.67
to share my
testimony, it took me months...
00:19:01.70\00:19:04.94
every night when I would lie
down to go to sleep at night,
00:19:04.97\00:19:07.51
it would just
hammer me in my head,
00:19:07.58\00:19:08.91
I can't do
this... I can't do this,
00:19:08.94\00:19:10.28
I knew this Seminar is
coming up in this many months,
00:19:10.31\00:19:11.91
and I'm going to have to
stand up in front of people...
00:19:11.95\00:19:14.02
and I felt like I would be
walking up in front naked...
00:19:14.05\00:19:15.82
but the one thing
that drove me forward
00:19:15.85\00:19:18.35
was... this is what I
wish somebody had done for me,
00:19:18.39\00:19:21.92
if only somebody had told me,
"You're lost in this dark maze
00:19:21.96\00:19:26.26
but here's a light and
I've been here where you are
00:19:26.29\00:19:29.50
and I'm going to
guide you out from here... "
00:19:29.53\00:19:31.97
and that's what I
want to do for people
00:19:32.00\00:19:34.34
to go back into
that dark maze with them
00:19:34.37\00:19:36.67
and say, "I know where you are
00:19:36.71\00:19:38.51
and I know my
way around this maze
00:19:38.54\00:19:40.28
because I've been here
and I'll help you come out. "
00:19:40.31\00:19:42.84
Jennifer: So the thought that
you could give people something
00:19:42.88\00:19:45.01
that you yourself
needed and didn't get
00:19:45.05\00:19:47.78
propelled you past your point
of self-consciousness and fear
00:19:47.82\00:19:51.45
of talking about such
an embarrassing thing.
00:19:51.49\00:19:53.79
Nicole: Although, I
think people often think,
00:19:53.82\00:19:56.09
"Well, I don't have that ability
00:19:56.12\00:19:57.46
because I haven't
been through it... "
00:19:57.49\00:19:58.83
or "I don't know how
to get out of it... "
00:19:58.86\00:20:00.20
but coming and just
being alongside somebody
00:20:00.23\00:20:03.03
makes such a difference...
00:20:03.06\00:20:04.63
reflecting Jesus
by sitting down...
00:20:04.67\00:20:06.77
looking somebody in the face
00:20:06.80\00:20:08.14
and saying, "I care
that you're hurting... "
00:20:08.17\00:20:09.54
And 1st Corinthians 10:13...
"There's no temptation taken you
00:20:09.57\00:20:14.68
but such as is
common to man... "
00:20:14.71\00:20:16.21
so we all have
something... maybe not as severe
00:20:16.24\00:20:18.85
but we have something
that will help us relate
00:20:18.88\00:20:22.85
to that person
that's coming to us.
00:20:22.88\00:20:24.79
That's right and the Holy
Spirit just gives us the words
00:20:24.82\00:20:28.06
that we need to be able to
say, even if all we say is,
00:20:28.09\00:20:31.29
"Talk to me about what happened,
00:20:31.33\00:20:32.66
I'm here, I'm
listening and I care. "
00:20:32.69\00:20:34.96
We reflect Christ to people.
00:20:35.03\00:20:37.10
Paul: In that caring community,
00:20:37.13\00:20:39.13
what were some of
the significant things
00:20:39.17\00:20:41.00
that helped you
continue moving forward
00:20:41.07\00:20:42.84
so you can have a testimony
and minister to other people?
00:20:42.90\00:20:45.31
Nicole: I had people
who knew about my darkness
00:20:45.37\00:20:49.81
and didn't turn away
00:20:49.84\00:20:51.61
they didn't see me
as ugly or disgusting.
00:20:51.65\00:20:54.35
By the time I came out
publicly with my testimony,
00:20:54.38\00:20:57.92
I was already
married, I was a mother...
00:20:57.95\00:21:00.69
but I thought, "Wow!
00:21:00.72\00:21:02.72
how would I have been able
to have this kind of courage
00:21:02.76\00:21:07.03
without a
supportive husband behind me
00:21:07.06\00:21:08.53
saying, "You've got this... "
00:21:08.56\00:21:09.90
how would I've done
this as a single person
00:21:09.93\00:21:11.53
knowing nobody's ever going to
00:21:11.57\00:21:12.90
want to marry me
if they knew this?
00:21:12.93\00:21:14.27
But this is where I
really want to encourage people,
00:21:14.30\00:21:17.07
you know, the devil lies to us
00:21:17.11\00:21:18.97
and abuses one of his
most powerful channels of lies,
00:21:19.01\00:21:23.11
he tells us, "God
cannot be trusted...
00:21:23.14\00:21:25.05
God is not strong enough...
00:21:25.08\00:21:26.58
or He doesn't care
enough to take care of you... "
00:21:26.61\00:21:28.98
and we just have to
help people understand,
00:21:29.05\00:21:31.99
"He is... " and we do that by
being like Jesus toward others.
00:21:32.02\00:21:36.76
People may feel
like they're not equipped
00:21:36.79\00:21:38.66
but we can sit down
with somebody and say,
00:21:38.69\00:21:40.53
"Jesus went through
what you're going through. "
00:21:40.56\00:21:42.83
And also, Jesus
defended the weak
00:21:42.86\00:21:44.57
this is why He went and turned
over the money-changers' tables
00:21:44.60\00:21:48.57
and did all that... because
they were exploiting the weak
00:21:48.60\00:21:51.07
and so Jesus is a
defender of the weak
00:21:51.14\00:21:52.87
and you have gone on to become
00:21:52.91\00:21:55.14
a fearless advocate
for victims of abuse
00:21:55.18\00:21:57.25
and I just want to
touch on that for a second
00:21:57.28\00:21:59.01
because often people will say,
00:21:59.05\00:22:01.15
"Well, she can't
handle these situations
00:22:01.18\00:22:02.98
because she's too compromised
from her own abuse trauma... "
00:22:03.02\00:22:05.55
but nothing could be
further from the truth
00:22:05.59\00:22:07.79
because God
could take that trauma
00:22:07.82\00:22:09.52
and He can turn it into
strength and ability and wisdom
00:22:09.56\00:22:12.53
to be able to
handle these situations
00:22:12.56\00:22:14.70
with much more effectiveness
00:22:14.73\00:22:16.23
than someone who
hasn't been through it...
00:22:16.26\00:22:17.83
at least potentially.
00:22:17.87\00:22:19.47
Nicole: The irony
of it never escapes me
00:22:19.50\00:22:21.47
that church leaders and
people come to me and say,
00:22:21.50\00:22:24.14
"We're just so glad to
see how God has healed you
00:22:24.21\00:22:26.78
because that proves that
people can overcome sexual abuse
00:22:26.81\00:22:30.55
and they don't have to live in
shame and darkness forever... "
00:22:30.58\00:22:34.12
I'm like, "Yes, you're right,
God does heal us completely"
00:22:34.15\00:22:37.59
but then, when they're dealing
with a sexual-abuse situation
00:22:37.65\00:22:40.89
and I say, "This guy
has done these things
00:22:40.96\00:22:43.12
and you need to deal
with it this way... "
00:22:43.16\00:22:45.23
they turn around and say,
00:22:45.26\00:22:46.76
"Well, we're the
ones who can see clearly
00:22:46.80\00:22:49.80
from an unemotional perspective
00:22:49.83\00:22:51.20
because we haven't been through
what you've been through... "
00:22:51.23\00:22:53.47
so they don't really believe
that what I've been though
00:22:53.54\00:22:57.11
is a gift from God
when it's processed right
00:22:57.17\00:23:00.48
because just like if I've been
through having both legs broken,
00:23:00.51\00:23:03.58
can't I understand better
00:23:03.65\00:23:04.98
what somebody
else is going through
00:23:05.01\00:23:06.35
when they're lying in
bed with both legs broken?
00:23:06.38\00:23:07.72
I've been there
00:23:07.75\00:23:09.08
and I've gone through
the process of healing
00:23:09.12\00:23:11.25
and I understand
things that they don't
00:23:11.29\00:23:13.25
because they haven't been there.
00:23:13.29\00:23:14.62
In every other area of
ministry, we tend to believe,
00:23:14.66\00:23:17.09
"Well, somebody who's
been through the experience
00:23:17.13\00:23:19.73
probably understands
what they're talking about"
00:23:19.76\00:23:22.26
but in this area... people
just don't want to believe
00:23:22.30\00:23:24.83
that they have to take action.
00:23:24.87\00:23:26.50
Jennifer: Do you get
accused of being bitter?
00:23:26.53\00:23:27.87
Nicole: Oh, sometimes.
00:23:27.90\00:23:29.30
Jennifer: But have you forgiven?
00:23:29.34\00:23:30.67
Nicole: I think
forgiveness is a journey
00:23:30.71\00:23:33.54
but I feel that I have forgiven
00:23:33.58\00:23:35.64
and I'm continuing to
find new ways to forgive.
00:23:35.68\00:23:38.38
Jennifer: What is forgiveness?
00:23:38.41\00:23:39.75
Nicole: Forgiveness is not
00:23:39.78\00:23:41.25
saying, "Forgive and forget,
00:23:41.28\00:23:42.98
let's pretend like
this never happened. "
00:23:43.02\00:23:44.35
Paul: Absolutely.
David: Amen... amen.
00:23:44.39\00:23:45.72
Jennifer: It's part of
your story... in other words.
00:23:45.75\00:23:47.72
Nicole: Forgiveness is
when we let God into the story.
00:23:47.76\00:23:49.62
For me... forgiving...
I felt for many years...
00:23:49.66\00:23:53.09
because I didn't
know how to forgive
00:23:53.13\00:23:55.10
and I literally
remember feeling like
00:23:55.13\00:23:57.07
my abuser's skeletal hand
was coming out of the grave
00:23:57.10\00:24:01.47
gripping me everywhere I went
00:24:01.50\00:24:04.04
and I felt so bitter and angry,
like, "He got off scot-free,
00:24:04.07\00:24:07.78
nobody ever confronted
him, he never said he was sorry,
00:24:07.81\00:24:11.41
nothing ever happened,
00:24:11.45\00:24:12.81
he was a church member
in good and regular standing
00:24:12.85\00:24:15.32
all the way to the end, amen"
00:24:15.35\00:24:16.69
and in the meantime,
my life was shattered
00:24:16.72\00:24:19.65
and I felt certain I
could never get married,
00:24:19.69\00:24:22.26
I could never stand
having a daughter because
00:24:22.29\00:24:24.53
just watching
somebody pick up a little girl
00:24:24.56\00:24:26.80
would just send
me to shudders...
00:24:26.83\00:24:28.16
but at that point...
I realized at one point
00:24:28.20\00:24:33.00
that this skeletal hand
is holding me from the grave
00:24:33.03\00:24:35.54
because I let it
00:24:35.57\00:24:36.91
and I decided, "I'm not going
to allow him to have that power"
00:24:36.94\00:24:41.44
and I realized it's not
really him that is my abuser,
00:24:41.51\00:24:45.15
it's Satan that's my abuser.
00:24:45.21\00:24:47.25
Satan is the one... and
my abuser was his prisoner,
00:24:47.28\00:24:50.79
that doesn't remove
his responsibility...
00:24:50.82\00:24:53.05
but he was also a
victim of the devil
00:24:53.09\00:24:55.26
and so, I realized the
best way that I can get even
00:24:55.29\00:24:59.06
is by refusing to allow
one particle of my heart
00:24:59.09\00:25:02.83
to belong to my
abuser... to Satan...
00:25:02.86\00:25:05.57
and so, I've
resolved intellectually,
00:25:05.60\00:25:08.27
"I'm not going to be bitter,
00:25:08.30\00:25:09.64
I'm going to choose to forgive
whatever that looks like. "
00:25:09.67\00:25:11.41
David: And that's the key...
00:25:11.44\00:25:12.77
what you're saying is
that forgiveness is no longer
00:25:12.81\00:25:15.24
treating the offender as
the one who has offended you
00:25:15.28\00:25:18.21
but dealing with the
pain as you work with God
00:25:18.25\00:25:21.48
and coming out of
ourselves and into Christ...
00:25:21.52\00:25:24.72
Nicole: Yes, seeing the
enemy as sin instead of a person
00:25:24.75\00:25:28.39
changes everything.
00:25:28.42\00:25:30.33
Paul: In Matthew
18:35, Jesus says,
00:25:30.36\00:25:32.89
"Forgive from your heart... "
00:25:32.93\00:25:34.63
so for me, "forgiveness" means,
00:25:34.66\00:25:36.13
you're letting God bring
deep healing into your heart
00:25:36.16\00:25:38.77
and forgiveness is
really the overflow
00:25:38.80\00:25:40.84
of the work that God is doing
00:25:40.87\00:25:42.90
and then that moves you
into a ministry of testimony
00:25:42.94\00:25:45.81
as opposed to...
it's something I do...
00:25:45.84\00:25:48.04
no... it's a journey where God's
leading us deeper and deeper.
00:25:48.11\00:25:51.68
David: It's God who works
in us both to will and to do...
00:25:51.71\00:25:53.15
Paul: I'm very thankful that...
00:25:53.18\00:25:54.52
it's the overflow of
what God's been doing in you
00:25:54.55\00:25:57.42
and the fruit is,
00:25:57.45\00:25:58.79
that you're a passionate
advocate for other people
00:25:58.82\00:26:00.86
where you're using
your story for God's glory
00:26:00.89\00:26:04.19
that's
ministering to other people.
00:26:04.23\00:26:05.56
Shelly: What's
powerful to me Nicole is that
00:26:05.59\00:26:08.16
you mentioned dealing
with the anger that...
00:26:08.23\00:26:10.97
as we've been talking,
00:26:11.00\00:26:12.77
I just whispered to
my partner here to say,
00:26:12.83\00:26:15.57
open up to Psalm
4... Psalm 4:4 says,
00:26:15.60\00:26:18.27
"Be angry and sin not,
meditate within your heart. "
00:26:18.31\00:26:21.61
So that process
of going through...
00:26:21.64\00:26:25.05
dealing with the anger...
getting to a point of saying,
00:26:25.08\00:26:28.18
"I'm not going to let this
00:26:28.22\00:26:29.55
have a foothold
in my life any longer
00:26:29.58\00:26:31.55
and when the anger is removed,
which is a process in itself,
00:26:31.59\00:26:35.52
but that frees us up to even
begin to think about forgiving.
00:26:35.56\00:26:39.46
Nicole: Right, it was
when I could take refuge
00:26:39.49\00:26:41.56
in the justice of God
00:26:41.60\00:26:42.96
that I let go of
having to try to get justice
00:26:43.00\00:26:46.40
even if all the
justice I could get
00:26:46.43\00:26:47.90
was hanging on
to that bitterness
00:26:47.94\00:26:49.27
and burning resentment.
00:26:49.30\00:26:50.64
I think this is
where we cheapen the gospel
00:26:50.67\00:26:53.31
when we try to make
love a synonym for mercy,
00:26:53.34\00:26:56.11
love is the perfect
combination of justice and mercy
00:26:56.14\00:26:59.58
and God gives us His promise,
00:26:59.61\00:27:03.25
He says, "I can't
fix everything right now
00:27:03.28\00:27:05.35
things are unjust...
children are starving...
00:27:05.42\00:27:07.46
women are being raped in Africa,
00:27:07.49\00:27:09.32
I can't make it
all right right now...
00:27:09.36\00:27:11.43
or nobody's ever going to learn,
00:27:11.46\00:27:12.79
we're never going to
get the universe free of sin
00:27:12.83\00:27:14.80
because people are
still going to be... "
00:27:14.83\00:27:16.46
Jennifer: But I think it helps
to know it does make Him angry.
00:27:16.50\00:27:19.37
Nicole: It does and when we
understand... God is angry too
00:27:19.40\00:27:22.24
and He's promised...
00:27:22.27\00:27:23.77
"I'm going to take
care of this one... "
00:27:23.81\00:27:25.44
Paul: And the cross tells us,
00:27:25.47\00:27:27.91
when we see what
happened to Jesus...
00:27:27.94\00:27:29.71
it tells us that God
understands experientially
00:27:29.74\00:27:32.65
that what
happened to you was wrong,
00:27:32.71\00:27:35.08
that abuse victims have
a God who knows it's wrong
00:27:35.12\00:27:38.42
and He's going to deal with it.
00:27:38.45\00:27:39.79
Nicole: And He came down
and went through it with us
00:27:39.82\00:27:41.52
because He couldn't
make it stop happening.
00:27:41.56\00:27:43.59
Paul: Yes.
00:27:43.63\00:27:44.96
Jennifer: Awww... this
conversation needs to continue
00:27:44.99\00:27:47.50
and needs to
continue for a long time...
00:27:47.56\00:27:49.93
these things
happen in our communities,
00:27:49.96\00:27:52.30
they happen in
our neighborhoods,
00:27:52.33\00:27:53.70
they happen in our churches...
00:27:53.74\00:27:55.94
go to:
AMultitudeOfCounselors. tv
00:27:56.00\00:27:58.17
for more resources.
00:27:58.21\00:27:59.54
Thank you for
joining us for this Program,
00:27:59.57\00:28:01.88
may God bless you.
00:28:01.91\00:28:03.45