Welcome to A
Multitude of Counselors.
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We're so thankful you
came to our program today.
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We're looking
forward to sharing with you
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from our experience,
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from our knowledge base
and from the word of God,
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principles that will
enhance your mental health
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and the mental health of
those to whom you minister.
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I want to
introduce my treatment team
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that's here today,
thankful for each one of them.
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First we have Dr. Jean
Wright, he's from Philadelphia
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and he is the
director of the behavioral...
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Say it for me I was...
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Director of Behavioral
Health and Justice Services.
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Services, which is
part of the behavioral
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health department.
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Correct, yes.
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And he also is an author,
he has a private practice
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and he loves to work on the side
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with community
forgiveness and restoration
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and that with the
present population correct...
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And that is just so cool.
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And we've got Christina Cecetto,
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she is from Georgia
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she is a licensed
master's in social work,
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she also woks at
Wildwood Lifestyle Center,
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she likes to focus on anxiety,
mood disorders, and phobias,
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and that's a unique
contribution you make
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because phobia is a
very commonly diagnosed
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anxiety disorder.
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So, so thankful
to have you here,
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Christina, you're a blessing
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and you're really our
local lifestyle medicine expert.
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And Dr. Nivischi
Edwards is from Tennessee,
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she is a virtual
private practice counselor,
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she also works in
Southern Adventist University,
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she is working on a book
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and she likes to help people
develop healthy relationships,
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including a
relationship with themselves
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which is important.
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And John, sorry
I'm calling you John
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after all these years.
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How did they
even know who you are?
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And Robert Davidson my
co-host is from the D.C. area.
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He works with me
in a private practice
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through a bite
counseling network.
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And he treats a
variety of issues
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with a variety of
different presentations
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but he likes to help men
develop servant leadership
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and Biblical
integrity and Biblical manhood
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so that's very needed
in today's environment
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of so many divorces
and families falling apart
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and Pornography
addiction is pandemic,
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so we're so
thankful that you're on that.
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And you're Jennifer.
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And I'm Jennifer Jill Schwirzer.
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And I'm a private
practice counselor,
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and I do a few
other things on the side
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and stop teasing me you guys.
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We're talking about
mood disorders today,
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mood disorders are a
real common diagnosis
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in the mental health field.
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So let me give you
a definition first.
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Mood disorders are
not surprisingly disorders
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that have to do with the mood.
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We all have a
certain level of happiness,
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if you can call it
that or a level of mood
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that we enjoy everyday
and the mood can go up,
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the mood can go down
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but when that
process goes awry either
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because of brain
chemistry or faulty thinking
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or whatever, history of trauma,
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sometimes we
develop a mood disorder.
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So let's look at some
of the major mood disorders
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that we see on
a day-to-day basis
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in our offices.
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First of all, the
most common of course,
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is major depressive disorder.
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That's simply and I'm not
going to go into the detail
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into the diagnosis
but that's simply a person
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who's depressed for a
prolonged period of time
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to the point where it
affects the relationships
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and their functioning.
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And then Dysthymic
Disorder if I can just simplify,
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it's really a mild form
of depression essentially,
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it's not as severe
as major depressive
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but some of the
features are present.
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Then we have Bipolar Disorder
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which is wildly
fluctuating moods.
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And this can
happen in very severe form
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or if they're of
extreme high moods
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with what we call manic episode,
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when person is up at
night and they're not sleeping
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and they're taking on
all kinds of adventures,
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doing all kinds of
things or we can see it,
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and then the person crashes
into a extremely low mood
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or we can see that
cycle very rapidly.
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So it's kind of a
dodgy disorder in the sense,
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they would say
dodgy in Australia
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and I have Australian friends.
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But it's
difficult to pin point it.
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It has kind of a
variety of presentations.
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And then, of course,
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Cyclothymic Disorder
is a mild form of bipolar
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if I can call it that.
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So those are the
major mood disorders.
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What about the prevalence
of mood disorders it hovers
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from what I read
about 10% of people struggle
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with mood disorders
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and it's higher
in women than in men.
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The regulation of our
mood is largely a function
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of the
neurotransmitter serotonin
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and apparently women
have a little less serotonin
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in the brain than
men from what I've read.
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So women can have
a more difficult time
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with regulating the mood
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and they're also
more prone to anxiety.
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But there are other sub
groups that struggle too.
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For instance and I
learn this recently,
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are physicians in training.
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Physicians in training
and I've met a couple of them
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and I could see
why they're depressed.
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They're just...
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They almost haze them
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if they have to
go through so much
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during the
residencies and so forth.
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The cause of the depression
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of course seems to
be kind of that cocktail
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of nature and
nurture and sometimes
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current
life-triggering situations
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and that's part
of our job, isn't it?
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It is to find
out what the cause is
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because we got a
reason from cause to affect
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because if we can
eradicate the cause
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then we've effectively
treated the disorder.
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The prognosis as always
is, it is very treatable
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because there is hope and
health in healing in Jesus.
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He is the health
of our countenance
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and our God.
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So the treatments include
things like lifestyle changes
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that can help with the mood
because it helps the whole body
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and the brain is
a physical organ,
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it's a part of the human
body and you improve the body,
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you're improving the brain.
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We also use talk
therapy, we use...
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Faith is a big
component of my recovery
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from depression,
social supporters
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are very important component
of treatment of depression.
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Some herbs and supplements
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seem to help
depression in my experience
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and also medications
are sometimes called for
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and of course,
the famous SSRI drugs,
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Selective Serotonin Reuptake
Inhibitors help more serotonin
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to be in those
synaptic gaps in the brain
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and so the peoples
mood improves typically
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on those medications.
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And sometimes
those are called for,
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we also use...
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The standard treatment
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is cognitive behavioral therapy,
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have negative life experiences,
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out of those negative experience
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come negative feelings
but there are something
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that mediates
between those two things
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and that is
cognitive processing,
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I can change the
way I think about things
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by the grace of God,
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and as Paul brought out so well,
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our other team member here.
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We receive those beliefs,
those truths from Jesus.
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We don't just work
hard to change our thoughts,
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we receive them from
Jesus, he empowers us
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and our will
aligning with his will
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brings about that change.
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So our thoughts can change,
and when our thoughts change
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typically our feelings change.
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So those were the
things that I know about that
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help with mood
disorders, what do you guys use?
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What do you do when clients
present with these issues
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and feel free to talk about
anything depression bipolar
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or whatever, you
have experience with.
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I like to expand on the word
you used Jennifer, a lifestyle,
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because it's holistic
and one of the first things
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I look at with
clients who are struggling
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with different
moods or disorders
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is what's your
eating habits like?
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How is your sleeping
pattern? Are you working out?
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You talked about social support,
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so all those things are vial
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because I think sometimes
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what happens is we
neglect those things
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when our moods are impacted,
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those are the first
things that we neglect.
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It's a first
thing, let go. Absolutely.
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Even when I talk with
my students, you know,
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being a student, it can
be a very stressful life,
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and if it's final's week
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or if it's the
beginning of the semester
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and all the things are impacting
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and the
emotions are high or low,
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I encourage the students, well,
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look at what's
going on with you,
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and what is
your prevention plan,
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to make sure that
your mood stays or floats
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so you're in the healthiest
state to be most productive.
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You mentioned that
often when people need those
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to make those choices is
when they start making them
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because their mood is low.
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I have client that
really struggles with bipolar
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and goes down to
the depths of the lows
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and the thing that has
really turned him around
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'cause he wouldn't
even want to get out of bed,
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is I said, "Look, even
if you don't feel like it
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you still have this
thing called a free will,"
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and he kind of
discovered the power of the will
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and he learned how to
just, how to ask, you know,
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obviously ask Jesus
to come into his life
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and then he exercised that will
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and it's really been
quiet transformative for him.
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So people often have
kind of a subconscious belief
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that I have to
go by my feelings.
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If I feel badly I have
to just act out that way
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but they don't really fully
tap into the power of the will
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and really I
think very few of us
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take full advantage
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of what we have
in the power of will.
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I love what you just said.
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My grandma
struggled with Alzheimer's
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toward the end of her life.
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And you know that kind
of disrupts the mood often.
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You're very discombobulated.
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One thing I learned
from her, just watching her,
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she experienced the
struggle with that illness.
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She always showed up,
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she always completed her
daily life tasks, the DLTs.
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Really?
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She got up, didn't
matter what was going on
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or what the voices were saying
or what her emotions were,
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she got up and she showed
up and that's really important,
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I encourage clients to do that.
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Get up, you don't
want to do it anyway,
00:10:03.23\00:10:06.07
you brush your
teeth, you wash your face,
00:10:06.10\00:10:08.50
you take a
shower, you get dressed.
00:10:08.54\00:10:10.77
And sometimes it takes
everything in one's power
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when they're struggling with
different moods of disorders,
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to do those daily life tasks.
00:10:16.18\00:10:17.61
But I encourage them, I
tell my grandma to do it,
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she was struggling
toward the end of her life.
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But you get up and you
do those daily life tasks
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and you'll be amazed
how that can sometimes be
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what you need to
move yourself for it.
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Unfortunately,
when we were depressed,
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we don't feel like
doing those life tasks
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and this is
where support systems
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around us are vital.
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Absolutely.
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And we tend to isolate ourselves
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when we were depressed.
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We don't want to be near others.
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But those who are
in our support sys
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need to be aware of this,
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and kind of invite
themselves into their space
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when they're
really feeling so down
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that they don't want to
do these daily life tasks.
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You said the message
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when people stop
engaging in the...
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What do you call a DLT not BLT?
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DLT.
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Not to be confused
with BLT is that the message
00:11:00.42\00:11:02.56
there is I don't
matter, I'm insignificant
00:11:02.59\00:11:05.63
and when you engage
in the action of actually
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caring for yourself...
00:11:08.93\00:11:10.27
Yes.
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You're effectively affirming...
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You're changing. The belief...
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Absolutely.
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And sometimes we have to
refute those false beliefs
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behaviorally.
00:11:17.14\00:11:18.47
That's why they're
called "Cognitive behavioral."
00:11:18.51\00:11:20.34
Sometimes, if you think
00:11:20.38\00:11:21.71
there is a
bogeyman in the closet,
00:11:21.74\00:11:23.08
the best way to refute that
is to go walk in that closet.
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And another point
that you brought up
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that I thought it
was really important
00:11:27.38\00:11:28.72
was that we need
to address the cause,
00:11:28.75\00:11:30.89
because sometimes, many
times depression is caused
00:11:30.92\00:11:34.46
by remorse for
sin, by unforgiveness,
00:11:34.49\00:11:37.63
lack of forgiveness, guilt,
00:11:37.66\00:11:39.39
and if we don't
address these things,
00:11:39.43\00:11:41.63
here we address
the lifestyle changes
00:11:41.66\00:11:43.37
and when the person
is just going to continue
00:11:43.40\00:11:45.43
being depressed.
00:11:45.47\00:11:46.80
And they look six
years longer in utter misery,
00:11:46.84\00:11:48.54
and we do not want that,
we want people to have life
00:11:48.57\00:11:50.97
and have it more abundantly.
00:11:51.01\00:11:52.34
So what do you do though
00:11:52.37\00:11:53.71
that's so personal
like remorse for sin,
00:11:53.74\00:11:56.98
how do you
address that with clients
00:11:57.01\00:11:59.08
and how do you get them to
deal with forgiveness issues?
00:11:59.11\00:12:02.68
Really using scripture
00:12:02.72\00:12:04.65
and that's where
scripture comes in.
00:12:04.69\00:12:06.02
How can someone
learn to forgive them,
00:12:06.05\00:12:09.62
forgive whoever it might be.
00:12:09.66\00:12:12.83
And so a lot of prayer,
allow the Holy Spirit coming in
00:12:12.86\00:12:15.83
and really it's a lot
of spiritual counseling.
00:12:15.86\00:12:19.27
Yeah.
00:12:19.30\00:12:20.64
So you mentioned in your
book also spiritual depression.
00:12:20.67\00:12:22.87
What do you mean by
spiritual depression,
00:12:22.90\00:12:25.17
versus just generic depression?
00:12:25.21\00:12:27.11
I actually do a
breakdown where I make...
00:12:27.14\00:12:29.18
Draw a parallel between
00:12:29.21\00:12:30.55
clinical and
spiritual depression,
00:12:30.58\00:12:31.91
looking at symptomatology.
00:12:31.95\00:12:33.28
And some of the things
00:12:33.31\00:12:34.65
that you've expressed Christina,
00:12:34.68\00:12:36.02
I've seen in my clients
00:12:36.05\00:12:37.39
that may have either
sleeping too much or not enough,
00:12:37.42\00:12:39.75
eating too much or not enough
00:12:39.79\00:12:41.52
and also insomnia
those type of things.
00:12:41.56\00:12:43.02
Isolation, you know,
especially from people, places,
00:12:43.06\00:12:45.96
and things that remind
you of church or Christianity,
00:12:45.99\00:12:49.16
I've seen that
happen to a lot of people
00:12:49.20\00:12:50.60
and so someone would do
with organic depression,
00:12:50.63\00:12:54.84
they do the same thing
with spiritual depression
00:12:54.87\00:12:56.87
trying to distance
themselves from those things
00:12:56.91\00:12:58.77
they see as painful
God doesn't love me,
00:12:58.81\00:13:01.04
I'm not lovable, I'm not worthy,
00:13:01.08\00:13:02.68
those kind of things.
00:13:02.71\00:13:04.05
So people with spiritual
depression are shutting God
00:13:04.08\00:13:06.21
and religion out of
there lives typically?
00:13:06.25\00:13:08.55
Typically and they may not even
recognize that that's the core
00:13:08.58\00:13:11.59
or that's the
source of their depression.
00:13:11.62\00:13:13.62
They may have gone to physicians
00:13:13.66\00:13:15.09
or the people who
have tried to diagnose
00:13:15.12\00:13:17.03
a more organic depression
but it doesn't really add up.
00:13:17.06\00:13:19.69
Yeah. You know.
00:13:19.73\00:13:21.06
And surrender is...
00:13:21.10\00:13:22.43
I believe the solution
to the spiritual depression.
00:13:22.46\00:13:26.23
I have seen clients recover
just quickly, once they have,
00:13:26.27\00:13:30.67
once they're able to truly
surrender things to the Lord
00:13:30.71\00:13:32.77
and really listen to
what he has to tell them,
00:13:32.81\00:13:35.18
as Paul Coneff was
talking about but also I think
00:13:35.21\00:13:37.98
the worst type of depression
00:13:38.01\00:13:39.71
that I've treated is that
which is caused by burnout.
00:13:39.75\00:13:43.62
I find that has a
very slow recovery process
00:13:43.65\00:13:46.59
because they physically
and mentally have truly burnt,
00:13:46.62\00:13:50.29
they're burnout.
00:13:50.33\00:13:51.83
There're something organic
00:13:51.86\00:13:53.33
to tap into the
result to overwork.
00:13:53.36\00:13:55.33
It's that...
00:13:55.36\00:13:56.70
So you find that to be
more difficult than generic...
00:13:56.73\00:13:59.07
Even spiritual
depression that's interesting.
00:13:59.10\00:14:02.30
I wanna go back
to this for a moment,
00:14:02.34\00:14:03.94
Jesus himself
experienced depression.
00:14:03.97\00:14:08.04
And you talked about surrender
00:14:08.08\00:14:11.08
and I just see
how counselor's job
00:14:11.11\00:14:13.92
is very much in a sense
00:14:13.95\00:14:15.85
an apologist or
someone who really presents God
00:14:15.88\00:14:18.69
in such a way that
people want to receive him
00:14:18.72\00:14:20.26
'cause who would want
to surrender to someone
00:14:20.29\00:14:21.76
that they don't trust.
00:14:21.79\00:14:23.12
Right.
00:14:23.16\00:14:24.49
So we first have to
show God's trust worthiness
00:14:24.53\00:14:26.39
to people and how
do we do that to people
00:14:26.43\00:14:28.63
that are feeling
a sense of despair
00:14:28.66\00:14:31.27
like their life is a waste,
00:14:31.30\00:14:32.63
like there is
nothing to live for.
00:14:32.67\00:14:34.54
I think the best
thing would be to show them
00:14:34.57\00:14:36.30
a savior who actually
carried that burden for them
00:14:36.34\00:14:39.01
all the way to the cross.
00:14:39.04\00:14:40.44
I think it's also
important to help them reconnect
00:14:40.48\00:14:43.41
with positives
00:14:43.45\00:14:44.78
that have
happened in their life.
00:14:44.81\00:14:46.15
I know about you Christina
00:14:46.18\00:14:47.52
but many of the
people I've worked with
00:14:47.55\00:14:48.88
they have selective memory
00:14:48.92\00:14:50.25
they only focus on
the negative things
00:14:50.29\00:14:51.62
that are happening.
00:14:51.65\00:14:52.99
Yeah, dichotomous
thinking. Yes, thank you.
00:14:53.02\00:14:54.36
So it's good to get them
to acknowledge and remember
00:14:54.39\00:14:57.56
the blessings, okay.
00:14:57.59\00:14:59.29
Do not lose
track of the blessings
00:14:59.33\00:15:01.00
'cause if you help
a person think back
00:15:01.03\00:15:02.86
they will have to
admit, "Well, wow, yeah,
00:15:02.90\00:15:04.57
I don't know how I got
through that situation.
00:15:04.60\00:15:06.27
Things important
to realize though
00:15:06.30\00:15:07.64
and acknowledge that
00:15:07.67\00:15:09.00
when one is depressed
that is where the mind goes.
00:15:09.04\00:15:10.81
Yes.
00:15:10.84\00:15:12.17
It's hard to tap
into the goodness,
00:15:12.21\00:15:13.71
to the health, to the blessings
00:15:13.74\00:15:15.24
and so reminding
of that is so vital.
00:15:15.28\00:15:17.18
Well, I think
that's part of our job.
00:15:17.21\00:15:18.55
Absolutely.
00:15:18.58\00:15:19.91
You know, it's taking people
back to those things and say,
00:15:19.95\00:15:21.28
"Hey, remember these
things, 'cause you got through
00:15:21.32\00:15:22.65
a difficult time
nothing but the grace of Jesus,
00:15:22.68\00:15:25.09
and then get
them through then say
00:15:25.12\00:15:26.45
you can get through this
time and then goes Bible texts
00:15:26.49\00:15:28.69
that you've referred
to I think it'll help.
00:15:28.72\00:15:30.49
Can I give a quick
example? Sure, go ahead.
00:15:30.53\00:15:32.46
I was counseling
with the young girl,
00:15:32.49\00:15:35.43
she was nine and she
came into my office one day
00:15:35.46\00:15:38.43
and she said, "I've had
a horrible, horrible week,"
00:15:38.47\00:15:41.10
and I said "What happened?"
00:15:41.14\00:15:42.50
And she said,
"Well, I've got burnt here,
00:15:42.54\00:15:45.81
I lost a tooth and
I got a cold sore."
00:15:45.84\00:15:48.24
And so I asked
her, "Oh, I'm sorry."
00:15:48.28\00:15:50.01
I told her sorry about all that,
00:15:50.05\00:15:51.51
but did anything
go well this week?
00:15:51.55\00:15:54.18
And it took her about 20 minutes
00:15:54.22\00:15:55.58
but she came up with
five things that went well,
00:15:55.62\00:15:58.55
but it was it took...
00:15:58.59\00:16:00.49
It was like
trying to open an oyster.
00:16:00.52\00:16:02.22
Right and these things are
actually quiet large things
00:16:02.26\00:16:04.79
that had happened to her
she had gone to got a museum
00:16:04.83\00:16:07.23
and someone had
bought her some clothing
00:16:07.26\00:16:09.33
and so it was quiet
large things but we tend to,
00:16:09.36\00:16:11.27
as you were saying,
go to these dark places
00:16:11.30\00:16:13.90
and we don't look
at the big picture.
00:16:13.94\00:16:16.91
And as a
counselors it's easy for us
00:16:16.94\00:16:19.27
to get sucked into their despair
00:16:19.31\00:16:20.88
and like they want
to look at the problems
00:16:20.91\00:16:22.24
and look at the problems
00:16:22.28\00:16:23.61
and we look at
the problems with them
00:16:23.65\00:16:25.15
and you got to do
that to some degree
00:16:25.18\00:16:26.51
to build empathy,
00:16:26.55\00:16:27.88
but at some point we
got to step back and say,
00:16:27.92\00:16:29.68
the biggest problem was
00:16:29.72\00:16:31.05
you're looking at the
problems all the time.
00:16:31.09\00:16:32.42
Right.
00:16:32.45\00:16:33.79
It's the key to CBT
Cognitive Behavioral Therapy
00:16:33.82\00:16:35.32
is not to focus in
on the symptomatology...
00:16:35.36\00:16:37.06
Right. Yeah.
00:16:37.09\00:16:38.43
Focusing on strengths,
focusing on how we connect
00:16:38.46\00:16:40.43
out thoughts and our behaviors.
00:16:40.46\00:16:41.80
Right. Process not content.
00:16:41.83\00:16:43.16
Yes, absolutely.
00:16:43.20\00:16:44.53
And I just want to testify
and say that Jesus has...
00:16:44.57\00:16:46.84
He'd largely
healed me from depression.
00:16:46.87\00:16:49.34
I still have the
tendency but I'm an artist
00:16:49.37\00:16:52.04
and I lean in that direction
00:16:52.07\00:16:54.11
and I've had heavy
experiences of feeling
00:16:54.14\00:16:56.98
like there was a grand piano
on my chest and it's very...
00:16:57.01\00:17:00.48
It sucks you in, it's just...
00:17:00.52\00:17:02.22
It's really intense and then
if you setup that feedback loop
00:17:02.25\00:17:04.99
where your negative
emotions become evidence...
00:17:05.02\00:17:07.69
Yes.
00:17:07.72\00:17:09.06
Of what's really going on
00:17:09.09\00:17:10.43
then you've
created a feedback loop
00:17:10.46\00:17:11.96
and it never ends
because you feel negative
00:17:11.99\00:17:14.70
about feeling negative
and it just cycles down,
00:17:14.73\00:17:17.33
so Jesus was able to pull me
out of that and I'm grateful.
00:17:17.37\00:17:20.30
Yeah. Amen.
00:17:20.34\00:17:21.67
And that's part of our process
as counselors is to help people
00:17:21.70\00:17:25.14
to see that the
hope that there is.
00:17:25.17\00:17:27.68
The good that's in their life
00:17:27.71\00:17:29.04
and we talked about
journaling in the past
00:17:29.08\00:17:31.08
and I love to and
focus journal about the good
00:17:31.11\00:17:33.92
because otherwise we would
just totally forget about it,
00:17:33.95\00:17:36.45
go back and remember the good.
00:17:36.48\00:17:37.82
Can I add one last point? Sure.
00:17:37.85\00:17:39.52
I think of Jesus
when he was in the desert
00:17:39.55\00:17:42.82
and every single time he
was tempted to believe something
00:17:42.86\00:17:45.53
that the devil wanted
him to believe, he would say
00:17:45.56\00:17:48.13
"It is written,
00:17:48.16\00:17:50.10
it is written, it is written."
00:17:50.13\00:17:53.40
The truth is up in
the document itself.
00:17:53.44\00:17:55.90
Right. Not in the temptation.
00:17:55.94\00:17:57.71
Yeah.
00:17:57.74\00:17:59.07
So we can do the
same thing with whatever.
00:17:59.11\00:18:00.98
Well, first when you identify
those thoughts of course
00:18:01.01\00:18:03.24
and bring thought into
obedience and how's it...
00:18:03.28\00:18:06.55
To captivity to the
obedience of Jesus Christ.
00:18:06.58\00:18:08.88
That's right.
00:18:08.92\00:18:10.25
And then be able to
replace that with truth,
00:18:10.29\00:18:12.42
right and the
truth will set us free.
00:18:12.45\00:18:14.19
Amen.
00:18:14.22\00:18:15.56
Do a presenting
problem real quick?
00:18:15.59\00:18:16.93
Yeah. Okay.
00:18:16.96\00:18:18.29
Tamika, a 29-year-old,
upper middle class mother
00:18:18.33\00:18:20.70
of Jamaican Heritage,
with two small children
00:18:20.73\00:18:23.26
presents with severe depression
over the last several months.
00:18:23.30\00:18:26.53
She feels overwhelmed
by her responsibilities
00:18:26.57\00:18:29.34
and cannot seem to
function as a stay-at-home mom.
00:18:29.37\00:18:31.87
Her husband, a
30-year-old second generation
00:18:31.91\00:18:34.28
Romanian immigrant
and mechanical engineer
00:18:34.31\00:18:36.85
working for General Motors
00:18:36.88\00:18:38.35
provides well for the
family but feels bewildered
00:18:38.38\00:18:41.08
by his wife's difficulties
given their beautiful home
00:18:41.12\00:18:44.55
and their healthy children.
00:18:44.59\00:18:45.95
She reports that he has insisted
00:18:45.99\00:18:47.92
that she get help
for her depression
00:18:47.96\00:18:50.33
and this is why she is here.
00:18:50.36\00:18:52.26
So this is a
classic presentation,
00:18:52.29\00:18:54.86
she's got everything that would
normally make a person happy
00:18:54.90\00:18:59.63
or we would think
would make a person happy
00:18:59.67\00:19:01.50
but she lacks something inside
00:19:01.54\00:19:04.17
to get to that
place of contentment.
00:19:04.21\00:19:07.18
And by the way, I don't
think God wants us to have
00:19:07.21\00:19:09.61
elated feelings all the time
but I do think our default mode
00:19:09.64\00:19:13.05
according to
design is one of joy
00:19:13.08\00:19:15.78
there is a wonderful
book called 'Return to joy'
00:19:15.82\00:19:17.65
you know, and I think
00:19:17.69\00:19:19.02
that's what God
wants for us ideally
00:19:19.05\00:19:20.66
and that we're capable of that.
00:19:20.69\00:19:22.39
It doesn't mean
that we wouldn't deviate
00:19:22.42\00:19:23.99
from that sometimes and feel
sometimes very intense sorrow
00:19:24.03\00:19:27.00
in a response to some
of life's difficulties.
00:19:27.03\00:19:30.07
But I think God
does want us to be...
00:19:30.10\00:19:31.87
Absolutely.
00:19:31.90\00:19:33.23
The purpose of
life is not to be happy.
00:19:33.27\00:19:34.80
The purpose of
life is to glorify God
00:19:34.84\00:19:36.47
and to grow into his image.
00:19:36.50\00:19:38.11
I'm firm on that
00:19:38.14\00:19:39.47
but a byproduct of that is joy.
00:19:39.51\00:19:42.44
And God wants us to be happy.
00:19:42.48\00:19:44.28
So what would you
do for this woman?
00:19:44.31\00:19:46.98
I think one of the
first things that came to mind
00:19:47.02\00:19:49.28
and you've
probably heard me say this
00:19:49.32\00:19:50.65
in other programs
and other instances
00:19:50.69\00:19:52.42
but she has two small children
00:19:52.45\00:19:55.36
and the first thing
I do want to know is...
00:19:55.39\00:19:57.49
I wanna get a medical
exam and rule out postpartum.
00:19:57.53\00:20:00.03
That's right.
00:20:00.06\00:20:01.40
It's probably one of the
first things I want to know.
00:20:01.43\00:20:02.76
This...
00:20:02.80\00:20:04.13
Always want to rule out any
medical inducing possibilities.
00:20:04.17\00:20:08.00
And then beyond that
once we get those tests back
00:20:08.04\00:20:10.97
then we can maybe know
what we're dealing with.
00:20:11.01\00:20:12.77
And so I would start with that.
00:20:12.81\00:20:14.14
How long after birth can
women suffer from postpartum?
00:20:14.18\00:20:17.48
It can be
several months to upwards
00:20:17.51\00:20:19.91
of eight to nine
months almost a year
00:20:19.95\00:20:21.52
depending on the individual.
00:20:21.55\00:20:23.02
And I think also depending
on what they're disposition
00:20:23.05\00:20:25.95
was before
conception and having the child.
00:20:25.99\00:20:28.89
So I think there is a
wide continuum, you know,
00:20:28.92\00:20:31.86
not my area of
expertise but certainly one
00:20:31.89\00:20:33.90
that I've had
several clients hear.
00:20:33.93\00:20:35.56
That's great.
00:20:35.60\00:20:36.97
So you'd get the
background and look into
00:20:37.00\00:20:38.47
the medical aspect of this...
00:20:38.50\00:20:39.83
And what was
their predisposition,
00:20:39.87\00:20:41.20
because oftentimes
people have a predisposition
00:20:41.24\00:20:44.61
for depression or other
mental health challenges
00:20:44.64\00:20:47.98
and they were not aware of them.
00:20:48.01\00:20:49.91
Something I would check for...
00:20:49.94\00:20:51.28
That's very good, and something
00:20:51.31\00:20:52.65
I would check for
is a history of abuse
00:20:52.68\00:20:54.02
because what is find is
that often, at this age,
00:20:54.05\00:20:56.35
right to the end of the
'20s, sort of the rush of youth
00:20:56.38\00:20:59.52
is kind of passing away
and just the chaos increasing
00:20:59.55\00:21:03.99
as if being a young adult
and making all these friends
00:21:04.03\00:21:06.59
and maybe find your life partner
00:21:06.63\00:21:08.00
all of that is kind
of fading into a routine
00:21:08.03\00:21:10.83
and now you're a mom
at home with children
00:21:10.87\00:21:13.94
and you're facing
those four walls everyday
00:21:13.97\00:21:15.94
and if there has been a
history of abuse particularly,
00:21:15.97\00:21:18.07
if it was the
age of her children,
00:21:18.11\00:21:20.44
she is triggered everyday
with those small children
00:21:20.48\00:21:24.48
to remember what happened
to her when she was small.
00:21:24.51\00:21:26.88
So I would check for
those kinds of things
00:21:26.92\00:21:28.45
that could be feeding
the problem, we don't know.
00:21:28.48\00:21:31.42
Yeah, that's what I was
going to mention was that
00:21:31.45\00:21:33.39
it says that she's overwhelmed
by her responsibilities
00:21:33.42\00:21:36.26
but is it actually
her responsibilities
00:21:36.29\00:21:38.46
or is there
something else going on
00:21:38.49\00:21:40.10
that's causing something
so simple as daily tasks
00:21:40.13\00:21:44.07
that are becoming overwhelming.
00:21:44.10\00:21:46.37
I find that a lot of
times right around 30s sometimes
00:21:46.40\00:21:49.17
between, like, 30 and 40,
people encounter an experience
00:21:49.20\00:21:52.67
that I call,
"Hitting the brick wall,"
00:21:52.71\00:21:54.58
where, I really
think our adrenaline tapers
00:21:54.61\00:21:57.68
off a little as we get
older and they have time now
00:21:57.71\00:22:01.42
to get depressed and
they sometimes start facing
00:22:01.45\00:22:04.55
the meaninglessness
of their life, you know,
00:22:04.59\00:22:07.46
and they it's an
excellent time for them actually
00:22:07.49\00:22:09.89
to come to know Jesus
in a more intimate way
00:22:09.92\00:22:12.69
but it can be shattering,
00:22:12.73\00:22:14.46
it can feel like everything
I thought life was going to be
00:22:14.50\00:22:16.97
is now fragmenting
into a thousand pieces.
00:22:17.00\00:22:20.77
That's a good point, I mean,
00:22:20.80\00:22:22.14
do we know what her
concept of motherhood was or is
00:22:22.17\00:22:25.61
and maybe she, you know,
a lot of people have told me
00:22:25.64\00:22:27.68
they don't feel
they've measured up.
00:22:27.71\00:22:29.34
So the pressures
that you've mentioned
00:22:29.38\00:22:30.81
and what is it that's
going on as she is struggling.
00:22:30.85\00:22:33.85
Along with that I'd
tap into her husband
00:22:33.88\00:22:35.62
because he seems to have
a hard time understanding
00:22:35.65\00:22:39.39
what's going on with her
relating or even supporting
00:22:39.42\00:22:41.99
because of their beautiful
home and healthy children.
00:22:42.02\00:22:45.36
So he's saying,
"We have all we need,
00:22:45.39\00:22:46.93
what's going on with you?"
00:22:46.96\00:22:48.30
And may be there
is a materialism,
00:22:48.33\00:22:50.17
kind of, in the
ethos of the family
00:22:50.20\00:22:52.60
that is not
satisfying to her anymore
00:22:52.63\00:22:54.77
and maybe he's, you know,
he's a mechanical engineer
00:22:54.80\00:22:56.60
might not be the
most warm fuzzy guy
00:22:56.64\00:22:58.27
on the face of the earth.
00:22:58.31\00:22:59.64
And he is the one insisting
that she come to see one of us.
00:22:59.67\00:23:01.34
Right.
00:23:01.38\00:23:02.71
And I think that's key
that lat sentence there.
00:23:02.74\00:23:04.91
She had nested he has insisted
00:23:04.95\00:23:06.95
so maybe she's not even
they a voluntary patient here
00:23:06.98\00:23:11.32
may be this is an ultimatum.
00:23:11.35\00:23:12.95
And what do you call that
one they have kind of therapy,
00:23:12.99\00:23:14.96
mandated... Mandatory.
00:23:14.99\00:23:16.89
Yeah, mandatory and usually
those are the hardest clients.
00:23:16.93\00:23:18.29
Absolutely.
00:23:18.33\00:23:19.66
Because they
don't want to be there.
00:23:19.69\00:23:21.36
Going through the motions.
00:23:21.40\00:23:22.73
In addition to all of that
that we've been discussing,
00:23:22.76\00:23:24.53
I would also like to see
00:23:24.57\00:23:25.90
what her time management
is like and self-care.
00:23:25.93\00:23:29.10
If she is actually
taking time out, you know,
00:23:29.14\00:23:31.51
to do what she needs
to do replenish everything
00:23:31.54\00:23:34.14
that she's giving
out to her family.
00:23:34.18\00:23:36.04
And her social support systems.
00:23:36.08\00:23:38.38
Someone who has just had a child
00:23:38.41\00:23:39.81
and who's home with
the children all the time
00:23:39.85\00:23:42.95
can be lacking of
what life was like before
00:23:42.98\00:23:45.25
and do does she have people
that she can reach out to?
00:23:45.29\00:23:48.62
Are there other
mothers with young children
00:23:48.66\00:23:50.29
that she can
connect with and tap into,
00:23:50.33\00:23:53.09
some things I'd look at as well.
00:23:53.13\00:23:54.46
I like to bring in two
basic streams of healing
00:23:54.50\00:23:58.77
one is improving brain
chemistry with the person
00:23:58.80\00:24:01.54
that's dealing with depression
and the other is improving
00:24:01.57\00:24:04.34
their thought life so to
speak or their spiritual life.
00:24:04.37\00:24:07.81
And so I bring
it all on the table
00:24:07.84\00:24:10.55
and I say let's just
try to get your mood up
00:24:10.58\00:24:12.48
let's do everything we can
and then I would rather bring
00:24:12.51\00:24:15.92
all the therapeutic
elements in, get their mood up
00:24:15.95\00:24:19.12
and then they can start
not doing them one by one
00:24:19.15\00:24:22.02
unless they want
to keep doing them
00:24:22.06\00:24:23.39
but they can let them
not be done for a while
00:24:23.43\00:24:26.96
and as soon as
they start relapsing
00:24:27.00\00:24:28.86
then they know that
that was really helping me.
00:24:28.90\00:24:30.50
Kind of like a
behavioral experiment.
00:24:30.53\00:24:32.10
Yeah, kind of, I mean I
just try to get their mood up
00:24:32.13\00:24:34.47
because it's awful
to carry that everyday.
00:24:34.50\00:24:37.01
You know as we're
giving these tools
00:24:37.04\00:24:38.74
and as we're
working through our client
00:24:38.77\00:24:40.18
I also like to give the
big picture intermittently
00:24:40.21\00:24:43.24
that the big picture is
that God can use everything
00:24:43.28\00:24:45.65
that we experience in life
00:24:45.68\00:24:47.02
to get us where
he wants us to be
00:24:47.05\00:24:48.52
and this of course
is to be Christ like.
00:24:48.55\00:24:50.59
You've experienced
your passive depression
00:24:50.62\00:24:52.15
look where you are today.
00:24:52.19\00:24:53.52
I have a passive depression too.
00:24:53.56\00:24:55.42
And the Lord uses all of it
to bring us into a better place
00:24:55.46\00:24:59.59
and this is a picture of hope
00:24:59.63\00:25:01.10
that we can always
continue to hold up.
00:25:01.13\00:25:03.47
All things work
together, thank you so much.
00:25:03.50\00:25:05.73
Absolutely.
00:25:05.77\00:25:07.10
So I'm going to
start to rap up now
00:25:07.14\00:25:08.47
as we come a little
bit toward close here.
00:25:08.50\00:25:11.11
We're talking about
how important lifestyle
00:25:11.14\00:25:13.17
needs to be
holistic, we're talking about
00:25:13.21\00:25:15.34
let's look at the exercise,
the nutrition, the R & R,
00:25:15.38\00:25:18.61
all aspects of their lives,
00:25:18.65\00:25:20.42
because there are so many causes
00:25:20.45\00:25:22.42
that go in depression.
00:25:22.45\00:25:23.79
You mentioned that
burnout was really big,
00:25:23.82\00:25:25.92
we mentioned spiritual
depression, remorse for sin,
00:25:25.95\00:25:28.62
sin that's been done against us,
00:25:28.66\00:25:30.96
can we teach
people how to forgive
00:25:30.99\00:25:33.60
and how to move on
this is very vital.
00:25:33.63\00:25:37.60
What else do we have?
00:25:37.63\00:25:38.97
We have guilt, so
we need to find out
00:25:39.00\00:25:41.57
what the root cause is
and so between the spiritual
00:25:41.60\00:25:46.71
and the clinical
depression they're very similar.
00:25:46.74\00:25:48.84
But when we're talking
about spiritual depression,
00:25:48.88\00:25:50.58
you mentioned, is God
really in the picture?
00:25:50.61\00:25:52.85
And you mentioned how
important surrender is.
00:25:52.88\00:25:55.12
We really need
to be able to teach
00:25:55.15\00:25:56.72
what surrender looks like,
00:25:56.75\00:25:58.62
and we always go
back to Jesus, don't we?
00:25:58.65\00:26:00.56
And what he went through.
00:26:00.59\00:26:02.02
You mentioned he
experienced depression
00:26:02.06\00:26:04.26
and he took it to the
cross and that he was alone,
00:26:04.29\00:26:09.66
and that he
actually paved the way
00:26:09.70\00:26:11.83
and he conquered all
00:26:11.87\00:26:13.23
so that we would not
have to go through this
00:26:13.27\00:26:15.40
without somebody like
Jesus going through it first.
00:26:15.44\00:26:18.51
Hope has to be through
out this entire process
00:26:18.54\00:26:21.68
and part of that is
remembering the good.
00:26:21.71\00:26:24.05
We can't just concentrate
on the darkness of their lives,
00:26:24.08\00:26:26.92
we have to journal if we will,
00:26:26.95\00:26:30.29
we have to bring
them back to the positive,
00:26:30.32\00:26:31.95
the blessings
that are in their life
00:26:31.99\00:26:33.39
and as you mentioned, it
is written is very powerful.
00:26:33.42\00:26:36.12
Let's go back to that
what have we written down
00:26:36.16\00:26:38.96
that is positive
and good in our lives.
00:26:38.99\00:26:41.50
Postpartum
depression is very big
00:26:41.53\00:26:43.50
that could last up to year
00:26:43.53\00:26:44.90
perhaps so we have to
as you mentioned, Jen,
00:26:44.93\00:26:48.20
we have to rule out a
lot of the medical, right.
00:26:48.24\00:26:50.41
So again is, has there been
00:26:50.44\00:26:52.41
a medical
checkup with depression?
00:26:52.44\00:26:55.74
Time management, self-care,
00:26:55.78\00:26:57.48
support system that's around us,
00:26:57.51\00:26:58.91
all of these things
need to be looked at.
00:26:58.95\00:27:00.92
And then I like the
way Jen, how you wrapped up
00:27:00.95\00:27:04.22
that there is the brain health,
00:27:04.25\00:27:05.62
there is the chemical
imbalances that are going
00:27:05.65\00:27:08.62
on there is the thought life
that we can certainly work with
00:27:08.66\00:27:11.26
and there is a lot going on,
00:27:11.29\00:27:13.40
but we have look to
at all of that as we can.
00:27:13.43\00:27:16.26
You know, under the
inspiration of the Holy Spirit
00:27:16.30\00:27:18.87
the prophet Isaiah
said in chapter 63 verse 9,
00:27:18.90\00:27:21.70
"In all their
affliction, He was afflicted,
00:27:21.74\00:27:25.04
and the Angel of
his presence saved them,
00:27:25.07\00:27:27.41
in his love and in
his pity He redeemed them,
00:27:27.44\00:27:30.75
and he bore them
and he carried them
00:27:30.78\00:27:32.78
all the days of old."
00:27:32.81\00:27:34.52
Jesus can carry you
thorough this difficult time
00:27:34.55\00:27:37.32
as you wrestle with depression
00:27:37.35\00:27:39.09
or the person you love
is wrestling with depression
00:27:39.12\00:27:41.82
and he can bring you
up out of a horrible pit,
00:27:41.86\00:27:44.53
as the Psalm has said
00:27:44.56\00:27:47.53
and he can set
your feet upon a rock
00:27:47.56\00:27:49.60
and establish your
goings have faith in him,
00:27:49.63\00:27:52.67
he wants you to
have joy abundant,
00:27:52.70\00:27:54.24
please join us
for the next program
00:27:54.27\00:27:56.34
'A Multitude of Counselors.'
00:27:56.37\00:27:57.87