Welcome to A
Multitude of Counselors.
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So glad you came
to our program today.
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We are devoted to helping us all
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better understand mental health,
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psychological issues
from a biblical standpoint.
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And also to present to
you viable practical solutions
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for some of the most
perplexing problems of life.
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I'm sitting here with
my treatment team today,
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and I want to introduce
them one by one to you.
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First we have David
Guerrero, he is from Wisconsin
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and he runs a wonderful ministry
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called Rekindle the Flame,
it's a very inspiring title.
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And under that ministry
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he functions in a
number of capacities,
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he's really taken very seriously
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the admonition to
develop ourselves,
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that's we're told our
first duty to God and man
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is self development,
Ellen White said that.
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And you've taken
that very seriously
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and you have
developed competencies
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and coaching, pastoring,
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counseling and now you
are getting your doctoral
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in naturopathy, is that right?
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Yeah, that's correct.
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So he is a very
thoroughly rounded person.
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You also teach
coaching and write books
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and presents
seminars, you're crazy man, you.
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But he says that he does
well with time managements,
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so I'm gonna
trust him on that one.
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Okay.
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I also appreciate the fact that
we have Christina Cecotto here.
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She's from Georgia
and she is a licensed...
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Why do I blank on
this? Masters in...
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Masters in social work,
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there's all these
letters sometimes...
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MSW, right? That what they say?
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LMSW.
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LMSW and she is from Georgia,
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and she works at
Wildwood Lifestyle Center.
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And she likes to help
people through anxiety,
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mood disorders and phobias
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and she offers a lot in
regard to lifestyle remedies
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that seem to help people
with mental health issues.
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We also have Dr. Jean Wright.
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Dr. Jean is from my
hometown of Philadelphia,
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he goes to my home church
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and he's my
home boy as they say.
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And he is an amazing
guy with a lot of talent
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and a lot of capability.
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He works for the...
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He is the director of
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Behavioral Health
and Justice Services
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in the Department
of Behavioral Health
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in Philadelphia.
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And I can't
believe I remember that one
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and he also has a book out,
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what's the name
of the book again?
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"Find Strength
in Your Struggle."
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"Find Strength in Your Struggle,
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" I love that title
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and you're
shopping that book around
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a lot doing some book signings
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and some speaking
engagements as well.
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Absolutely.
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After on the side... Yes.
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Yeah, we need to talk to
him about time management too
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and on the side
Dr. Jean likes to work
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with community
forgiveness and restoration,
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working with the prisons... Yes.
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And he has done a lot of
really interesting things
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in the community in that regard,
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hopefully that will come up
in the course of the program.
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And also have my
co-host here Rob Davidson,
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Rob has a private
practice in counseling
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with Abide Counseling Network,
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and he likes to help a
variety of presentations
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including
individuals, families, couples,
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he likes to help men develop
servant leaderships skills
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and biblical
manhood and integrity,
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so that is so
needed in our world today
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and I'm so thankful that
you are here to share with us
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and help direct this program.
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I want to talk
about our topic today,
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our topic is Conflict.
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Conflict is a big one, isn't it?
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Yes.
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So a definition of conflict
would be a serious disagreement
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or argument.
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The prevalence of
conflict would be that
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it is pandemic everywhere,
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we have sinful human beings,
we have conflict, don't we?
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In fact sometimes
those conflicts escalate
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into what are called
anthropogenic disasters,
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did you know that's the
technical term for a war?
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An anthropogenic disaster
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and just to
mention one statistic,
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World War II alone,
75 million people killed.
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Now that's what
I called conflict.
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But realize that
all of those conflicts
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begin with emotional conflicts
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and breakdowns in communication
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and arguments
between individuals
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and then they
escalate and fan out
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into those
anthropogenic disasters.
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So I would say that
the cause by and large
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is poor listening.
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People don't generally listen,
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they typically want to
advance their own agenda,
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their own view,
their own rights,
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their own
righteousness in many cases,
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but they don't often
listen to the other person
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and take in their
subjective standpoint.
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We see in James 1:19 it says,
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"Let every man be quick to hear,
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slow to speak,
and slow to wrath."
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What we find is that people
are generally quick to speak
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and slow to hear and
so they are quick to what?
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Become angry.
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Wrath, they're quick
to escalate and typically,
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if we can learn to
change that around,
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we can learn
how to deescalate...
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Is this why God gave us
the two ears and the one mouth.
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And one mouth, that's
right. It's just a thought.
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It's true, it's the
symbol of what God wants
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is to be really big on listening
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and kind of slow on speaking.
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That's powerful.
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The prognosis though
is always positive, right,
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because Jesus heals.
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People can learn how to listen
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and they can learn
how to resolve conflicts.
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So some of the
methods of resolving conflict
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would be simply
meeting with the person
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with whom you have a conflict
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and in the Spirit of
Christ like love pray
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and talk through the issue,
we don't typically do that.
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When we have a disagreement,
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there is some
psychological tension
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that builds up and we
need to release that tension.
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Often we release it
with another person,
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instead of going to
the source of the tension
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and trying to
release it in the context
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of that
disagreement with that person
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and bring it to a
productive conclusion
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instead of a
destructive conclusion
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which is
gossiping and backbiting
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is what it often devolves into.
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Now I'm not saying
that in every case,
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if there has been
abuse and someone with
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much more power has exploited
a person of much less power,
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I do not
recommend if that person
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goes directly back to the abuser
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for a second helping.
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I recommend that
they find an advocate
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and that it is
resolved through advocacy,
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but in most cases
it's adult on adult
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or brothers and
sisters and we can go directly
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to the source of that
conflict and we can work it
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through in a spirit
of Christ like love.
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But sometimes it's
gotten beyond that point
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and that's where
an advocate comes in
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and I'm always
throwing up my hands
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and saying who advocate,
who will be that third person
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in the conversation
that will help mediate,
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and that often needs to
be a professional counselor,
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in my experience
someone who is like
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literally
designated in their career
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to helping people
through these things.
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So some of the things I like
to use in a counseling context
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is the ear
technique, E-A-R empathy
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and communication is all
about establishing empathy
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with one another.
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Empathy equals ask and reflect,
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you ask questions of
that person to draw them out,
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that means not
defensive questions like
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how long have
you been this stupid
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or something like that.
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But sincere
questions, wanting to know more
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about that person's
subjective experience,
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and also reflecting back to them
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what you heard them
say, and making sure that
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you got it right.
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And we're gonna
talk more about that
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I'm sure in the
course of this conversation,
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but also I want to bring
out that the FBI uses something
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called the Behavioral
Change Stairway Model.
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Have you guys heard of this?
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So when there is
a hostage situation
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and someone who is
trained and then the FBI goes
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to deescalate
that hostage situation,
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they use this
Behavioral Change Stairway Model
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which begins with no
surprise here active listening,
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and on the foundation
of that active listening,
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they develop
empathy with that person
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and then on the
foundation of that empathy,
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they develop rapport
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and on the
foundation of that rapport,
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they develop
influence over that person
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and finally when the
influence is established
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they get ask
for behavior change,
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put your gun down,
come out of the hotel room,
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let the people go or
whatever it happens to be.
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If this is used by the FBI
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to deescalate
hostage situations,
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how much more can we use
active listening and empathy
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and rapport to
deescalate our own conflicts.
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Can I get an
amen from you on that?
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Amen. Amen.
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Okay guys, so what have
you used that has helped
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in your efforts to help
deescalate your own conflicts
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and resolve conflict used
with other people, with clients?
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One thing I think
that's important, Jennifer,
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and I know we'll probably
talk about a lot of methods
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and tools that
people can use in conflict,
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but in today's world the reason
why people can't come together
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and resolve
their conflict is time.
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We live in a world where
people are not taking the time
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to listen, the time to speak.
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And so one
thing that I try to do
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when I'm counseling a couple
is I will ask the question,
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how much time are
you spending together
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to resolve these issues?
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And usually what I hear
is, "Well, we don't have..."
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Time. Time.
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We are too busy. We're too busy.
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I'm working, I'm
taking care of the kids
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and so what I try to
help them to see that
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if there's an issue,
and it's just laying there
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and they're just
letting it lay there
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and it's just laying there,
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what's happening
to each individual,
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the emotions are building
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and they're not
resolving their conflict,
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and then the conflict
will take care of them,
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because one day
it's going to do what?
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It's gonna explode... Explode.
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Yeah.
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So I believe helping individuals
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to see the importance of
spending that time together,
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to come together
to resolve the issue
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is critical, it's crucial.
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You are saying
that people can't really
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in the close relationship,
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people can't
really avoid conflict.
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For instance, in the marriage
you can't really avoid it
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and so you are
saying make it priority,
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it's more important
than the food you eat almost.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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I think that's important because
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one of the things I try
to do is take the emphasis
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of a negative
definition of conflict is.
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Conflict just
means a disagreement,
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it means you have an
opinion and I have an opinion.
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I love that.
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And so, if we can
start there with removing
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that negative
connotation... Amen.
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And say let's talk about
our difference of opinion,
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you know, that kind of
softens it a little bit
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and we can move forward.
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It's kind of like
the word confrontation.
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You know, confrontation
just means in the here and now,
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not waiting two weeks to tell me
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what I did wrong, okay.
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Let's talk about what
the disagreement is now
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and so the conflict is actually,
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it's an energy thing,
it allows things to change.
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A conflict
allows things to change.
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I love that.
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So you are normalizing
and really redeeming conflict.
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You are not like
dreading and catastrophizing,
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you're saying
this is a good thing,
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and we can use it
right, it's gonna link
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to good answers, it's great.
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It's a positive
energy to cause change.
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That's beautiful. Yeah.
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And now I can relax myself
and I think about, you know,
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the negative part of.
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So can we see it
as an opportunity,
00:11:03.53\00:11:04.86
conflict is an opportunity.
00:11:04.89\00:11:06.23
It is an opportunity. Yes.
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And as the Christian,
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it's an
opportunity to invite Christ...
00:11:09.00\00:11:10.33
Yes. Amen.
00:11:10.37\00:11:11.70
Into experience
and let Him help us.
00:11:11.73\00:11:14.10
See this is why I have a team,
00:11:14.14\00:11:15.47
I feel like, and
if I was up here,
00:11:15.50\00:11:16.84
I probably just be
catastrophizing conflict
00:11:16.87\00:11:18.54
to telling people
what a problem it was
00:11:18.57\00:11:19.91
and how to fix it.
00:11:19.94\00:11:21.28
But, you know, you are right.
00:11:21.31\00:11:22.64
It can be a
problem. Yeah, I know.
00:11:22.68\00:11:24.01
Let's approach it as if
it is just a disagreement.
00:11:24.05\00:11:26.18
That's right.
It's an opportunity.
00:11:26.21\00:11:27.55
I love that.
It's an opportunity.
00:11:27.58\00:11:28.92
This I exactly how
I approach a couple
00:11:28.95\00:11:30.29
when they first come in.
00:11:30.32\00:11:31.65
I start exactly
where you started there
00:11:31.69\00:11:33.02
and I really flush
that out, I take my time
00:11:33.05\00:11:35.22
because they never see
conflict as something positive.
00:11:35.26\00:11:37.69
Right. But I say, you know what?
00:11:37.73\00:11:40.16
If we don't have conflict,
we don't get to know each other
00:11:40.20\00:11:42.56
at our core,
but through conflict
00:11:42.60\00:11:44.90
we can not only
get to know each other
00:11:44.93\00:11:46.40
but in the conflict
itself, if it's done right
00:11:46.43\00:11:49.17
and we can teach
them in the right way,
00:11:49.20\00:11:50.81
we can bond closer together.
00:11:50.84\00:11:52.27
Yes. I love that.
00:11:52.31\00:11:53.64
And then I take
it to another level,
00:11:53.68\00:11:55.01
I say look at
the great controversy
00:11:55.04\00:11:56.75
that we are in today.
00:11:56.78\00:11:58.11
Look at the...
00:11:58.15\00:11:59.48
In fact if we
really study Revelation,
00:11:59.51\00:12:01.78
God will be closer
to us in closer bonded
00:12:01.82\00:12:04.22
as Jesus is with
his scars forever
00:12:04.25\00:12:06.86
because of the
conflict that happened.
00:12:06.89\00:12:08.22
That's right.
00:12:08.26\00:12:09.59
But we are
learning to do this conflict
00:12:09.62\00:12:10.99
together correctly.
00:12:11.03\00:12:12.39
Yes.
00:12:12.43\00:12:13.76
And so and it just
puts a new perspective.
00:12:13.80\00:12:15.46
You are saying that
God redeems conflict?
00:12:15.50\00:12:17.63
Oh, absolutely.
00:12:17.67\00:12:19.00
To great ends and to great good.
00:12:19.03\00:12:21.10
In my experience when
people never have conflict
00:12:21.14\00:12:24.17
for instance in a marriage,
one person is completely
00:12:24.21\00:12:27.88
losing their
individuality to the other.
00:12:27.91\00:12:30.48
And so conflict really shows
00:12:30.51\00:12:34.02
that there are
two individuals there
00:12:34.05\00:12:35.78
and that is a positive.
00:12:35.82\00:12:37.62
Yeah, a
relationship without conflict
00:12:37.65\00:12:39.29
is one without energy.
00:12:39.32\00:12:40.66
Yes. That's right.
00:12:40.69\00:12:42.02
Yes.
00:12:42.06\00:12:43.39
And I think there is
research from what I've read,
00:12:43.43\00:12:44.76
there is research that
the couples that do the best,
00:12:44.79\00:12:47.26
that have the
healthiest relationships
00:12:47.30\00:12:48.63
are the ones that do
escalate but they know
00:12:48.66\00:12:50.80
when to back out
of an escalation,
00:12:50.83\00:12:52.80
then no one is getting
too hot versus the couples
00:12:52.83\00:12:55.14
that never escalate
really are usually kind of,
00:12:55.17\00:12:57.34
but they're
stonewalling or they're detached
00:12:57.37\00:12:59.81
or something has gone
wrong in the relationship.
00:12:59.84\00:13:01.81
So we can help the
couple see that's in conflict
00:13:01.84\00:13:04.55
or the individual
to see that, you know,
00:13:04.58\00:13:06.82
that we're all
created in God's image
00:13:06.85\00:13:09.08
and God wants to restore us
into His image and in conflict,
00:13:09.12\00:13:13.05
God is trying to come in,
He's asking us to invite Him
00:13:15.66\00:13:18.76
into the experience,
00:13:18.79\00:13:20.13
so He can help us to
become more like Him.
00:13:20.16\00:13:21.76
Right.
00:13:21.80\00:13:23.13
Love that, love that.
00:13:23.16\00:13:24.50
One of the things that I will do
00:13:24.53\00:13:25.87
when I have a couple come in
00:13:25.90\00:13:27.24
and many times
it's only one individual
00:13:27.27\00:13:28.70
while their husband
and wife is at home,
00:13:28.74\00:13:30.51
when they're in
the lifestyle program
00:13:30.54\00:13:32.31
is really try to get
them to be connected,
00:13:32.34\00:13:34.71
redevelop their
relationship with Christ
00:13:34.74\00:13:36.61
or have a deeper
connection with Christ
00:13:36.64\00:13:38.41
because if I can
just read this real quick
00:13:38.45\00:13:40.35
and then I'll
explain more about it.
00:13:40.38\00:13:41.88
It says, "The heart
filled with that love,
00:13:41.92\00:13:43.95
which thinketh no evil
will not be on the watch
00:13:43.99\00:13:47.09
to notice
discourtesies and grievances
00:13:47.12\00:13:49.12
of which he may be the object.
00:13:49.16\00:13:51.16
The will of God is that
His love shall close the eyes,
00:13:51.19\00:13:54.46
the ears and heart
00:13:54.50\00:13:57.30
to all such provocations
and to all the suggestions
00:13:57.33\00:13:59.90
with which Satan
would fill them."
00:13:59.93\00:14:02.04
So if you notice the key here,
00:14:02.07\00:14:04.34
it's when they are
filled with the love of Christ,
00:14:04.37\00:14:08.24
then they won't
notice every little thing
00:14:08.28\00:14:10.25
because I think the
conflict can sometimes be...
00:14:10.28\00:14:13.18
Exacerbated by little triggers
that you could just overlook.
00:14:13.21\00:14:16.42
Love covers the
multitude of sins.
00:14:16.45\00:14:17.99
Now it is
necessary sometimes to,
00:14:18.02\00:14:20.32
of course to address
things and not to have
00:14:20.36\00:14:22.42
all being avoided
which many of us are
00:14:22.46\00:14:25.26
and so it is
important to address things,
00:14:25.29\00:14:26.80
but if we're filled
with that right spirit,
00:14:26.83\00:14:28.56
with the love of Jesus
Christ and we're gonna have
00:14:28.60\00:14:30.27
the right spirit to be
able to address those issues
00:14:30.30\00:14:33.84
that are needed to be addressed.
00:14:33.87\00:14:35.20
Christina, I love that so much.
00:14:35.24\00:14:36.94
She's gonna bring
out a really good text.
00:14:36.97\00:14:38.64
I'm not gonna take
the time to read all this
00:14:38.67\00:14:40.84
but what I will say to
couple is before you decide
00:14:40.88\00:14:43.78
to talk about something,
before we get into the head,
00:14:43.81\00:14:46.98
I want you to take the
time to look at Colossians 3.
00:14:47.02\00:14:49.82
And just look at, I
say the whole chapter
00:14:49.85\00:14:52.55
but it's particularly verses
12 through, it looks like 17.
00:14:52.59\00:14:56.56
Oh, my goodness that
just softens the spirit,
00:14:58.09\00:15:00.30
I can almost see
it on their faces
00:15:00.33\00:15:01.93
when we take the
time to read that.
00:15:01.96\00:15:03.40
Oh, can you read
just a little bit of it?
00:15:03.43\00:15:04.77
Oh, sure. Yeah.
00:15:04.80\00:15:06.13
"Therefore as the elect
of God, holy and beloved,
00:15:06.17\00:15:08.64
put on tender
mercies, kindness, humility,
00:15:08.67\00:15:11.81
meekness, longsuffering,
bearing with one another,
00:15:11.84\00:15:14.54
and forgiving one another,
00:15:14.58\00:15:15.94
if anyone has a
complaint against another,
00:15:15.98\00:15:18.21
even as Christ forgave
you, so you also must do.
00:15:18.25\00:15:21.52
But above all
these things put on love,
00:15:21.55\00:15:23.59
which is the bond of perfection.
00:15:23.62\00:15:25.05
And let the peace of
God rule in your hearts,
00:15:25.09\00:15:27.39
to which also you were called
in one body and be thankful
00:15:27.42\00:15:30.86
and let the word of Christ dwell
00:15:30.89\00:15:34.20
in you richly in all wisdom,
00:15:34.23\00:15:36.03
teaching and admonishing
one another in psalms
00:15:36.06\00:15:38.03
and hymns and spiritual songs,
00:15:38.07\00:15:39.70
singing with grace in
your hearts and on and..."
00:15:39.73\00:15:42.74
Just hearing that, I
feel my heart softened
00:15:42.77\00:15:45.21
toward people that
I have conflict with.
00:15:45.24\00:15:46.88
Amen.
00:15:46.91\00:15:48.24
I'm just being honest. Amen.
00:15:48.28\00:15:49.61
Yeah, it's the spirit working
before we actually get it to.
00:15:49.64\00:15:52.41
And I think to that,
you know, one needs to,
00:15:52.45\00:15:55.48
what I tell people is that
when they experience a conflict
00:15:55.52\00:15:58.59
that they might need
to take a little time out.
00:15:58.62\00:16:01.16
And they might
need to go away, pray,
00:16:01.19\00:16:03.46
be on their knees
and spend time with God
00:16:03.49\00:16:05.43
until they have
that, the spirit of God,
00:16:05.46\00:16:07.86
until they are, have the
Lord's love in their heart
00:16:07.90\00:16:10.87
and then they can
go out and address it
00:16:10.90\00:16:12.67
in the right spirit.
00:16:12.70\00:16:14.04
So it does take some
time, it doesn't mean that
00:16:14.07\00:16:16.14
we have to address it
right when it happens,
00:16:16.17\00:16:17.57
it does sometimes take,
sometime to be able to do that.
00:16:17.61\00:16:21.28
And listening is key
because the verse started put on
00:16:21.31\00:16:24.21
and some of the questions
that we get from people, well,
00:16:24.25\00:16:25.98
how do I put that on,
just what she just explain
00:16:26.01\00:16:28.12
how to do it.
00:16:28.15\00:16:29.48
Come aside, pray,
00:16:29.52\00:16:30.85
ask for the
baptism of the Holy Spirit
00:16:30.89\00:16:32.22
and filling God's
spirit, so I can put that on
00:16:32.25\00:16:34.46
and then I could come out
00:16:34.49\00:16:35.89
and ready equipped
by the spirit, yeah.
00:16:35.92\00:16:37.96
Be with Jesus, day by
day, moment by moment,
00:16:37.99\00:16:39.33
we can't do
anything right without Him.
00:16:39.36\00:16:41.36
I think another key is to
00:16:41.40\00:16:43.73
understand your intension with
trying to resolve a conflict.
00:16:43.77\00:16:47.70
What is your intension
and especially with couples,
00:16:48.00\00:16:49.84
is your intension
to win the argument,
00:16:49.87\00:16:52.47
you know, what
is your intension?
00:16:52.51\00:16:54.64
You know, with love and mercy,
00:16:54.68\00:16:56.38
your intension should
be to resolve our love
00:16:56.41\00:16:59.91
and resolve our
commitment to one another.
00:16:59.95\00:17:01.58
Amen.
00:17:01.62\00:17:02.95
And to
understand the other's heart
00:17:02.98\00:17:04.32
rather than to
justify ourselves.
00:17:04.35\00:17:05.69
Save the relationship. Yeah.
00:17:05.72\00:17:07.06
And you say something
in another program about,
00:17:07.09\00:17:08.42
you know, defending ourselves
and we just take 20 minutes
00:17:08.46\00:17:11.16
to just be quiet and listen
00:17:11.19\00:17:12.53
to what the other person
has said and not respond,
00:17:12.56\00:17:14.83
there is no
need for self defense
00:17:14.86\00:17:16.77
if I'm in this with you.
00:17:16.80\00:17:18.17
And so what is
my intension? Yeah.
00:17:18.20\00:17:19.93
You know, it
shouldn't be to win.
00:17:19.97\00:17:21.30
Yeah.
00:17:21.34\00:17:22.67
It should be for
us to move forward.
00:17:22.70\00:17:24.04
That's beautiful.
00:17:24.07\00:17:25.41
Oh, boy, that's like
an arrow to my heart.
00:17:25.44\00:17:27.14
Real quick, just
real quick, Jennifer,
00:17:27.18\00:17:29.44
'cause this is a powerful point,
00:17:29.48\00:17:31.18
when I'm counseling couples,
00:17:31.21\00:17:32.55
when I'm doing
marriage coaching,
00:17:32.58\00:17:34.35
one thing that is key and
it seems to help is I say,
00:17:34.38\00:17:37.85
let's look at, let's focus
on counseling the marriage,
00:17:37.89\00:17:40.76
let's focus on
coaching the marriage,
00:17:40.79\00:17:42.96
and it takes...
00:17:42.99\00:17:44.69
Two.
00:17:44.73\00:17:46.06
Takes two and it takes
their eyes off each other
00:17:46.09\00:17:47.90
and on to the marriage,
00:17:47.93\00:17:49.26
what we have to do
to fix that marriage?
00:17:49.30\00:17:50.90
And that's beautiful.
00:17:50.93\00:17:52.50
I like that, yeah. That's good.
00:17:52.53\00:17:53.87
Very quickly I'm gonna
do this presenting problem.
00:17:53.90\00:17:56.54
It says here in their 60s,
upper middle class and Hispanic
00:17:56.57\00:17:59.77
Mr. and Mrs. Fernando
reporting longstanding conflict
00:17:59.81\00:18:02.64
with their ex best
friends which are actually
00:18:02.68\00:18:05.01
Mrs. Fernando's sister
and husband the Acostas.
00:18:05.05\00:18:07.95
The couples came to
the area 20 years before
00:18:07.98\00:18:11.39
to plant a
church in order to reach
00:18:11.42\00:18:13.05
the Hispanic
population in the city.
00:18:13.09\00:18:15.12
All went well until the
church voted Mr. Fernando
00:18:15.16\00:18:17.89
into the position of
lay pastor of the church
00:18:17.93\00:18:20.53
because the same honor was
not extended to Mr. Acosta,
00:18:20.56\00:18:23.90
he wrestled with her feelings.
00:18:23.93\00:18:25.83
As you chat with Mr.
Fernando, you sense that
00:18:25.87\00:18:28.10
his approach to the situation
could have been more sensitive
00:18:28.14\00:18:31.21
and gracious in a
very delicate situation.
00:18:31.24\00:18:34.31
Mrs. Fernando is quite
for most of the session,
00:18:34.34\00:18:37.01
how do you proceed?
00:18:37.05\00:18:39.18
I just want to
say some real quick
00:18:39.21\00:18:40.55
and that is that
these presenting problems,
00:18:40.58\00:18:42.92
you know, resemble
to some of the things
00:18:42.95\00:18:44.65
that I've worked with,
00:18:44.69\00:18:46.02
and this particular
couple hadn't spoken
00:18:46.05\00:18:49.99
to the other
couple for 12 years.
00:18:50.73\00:18:52.69
Wow.
00:18:52.73\00:18:54.06
And of course, using
the reflective listening
00:18:54.10\00:18:56.00
but also praying
for the Holy Spirit
00:18:56.03\00:18:58.23
for over several
days, the ice finally broke
00:18:58.27\00:19:01.24
and this couple just
they loved each other really
00:19:01.27\00:19:04.67
and all this
conflict that piled up,
00:19:04.71\00:19:06.34
that was just so gratifying
for me to see that breakthrough
00:19:06.37\00:19:10.01
and that they sat down together,
00:19:10.05\00:19:11.68
start chatting like old friends,
00:19:11.71\00:19:13.05
it was just so meaningful.
00:19:13.08\00:19:14.42
Shows you how
powerful heart feelings can be.
00:19:14.45\00:19:16.38
Yes. Oh, my goodness.
00:19:16.42\00:19:17.99
Yes. Yeah.
00:19:18.02\00:19:19.35
And the
feelings, oh, my goodness,
00:19:19.39\00:19:21.32
you know before we
can resolve any conflict,
00:19:21.36\00:19:23.63
we have to hear
each other's feelings
00:19:23.66\00:19:25.66
and you talked about
this in the beginning
00:19:25.69\00:19:28.20
and we talked in another program
00:19:28.23\00:19:29.80
about the
listener speaker technique.
00:19:29.83\00:19:31.67
This is very powerful in
terms of hearing each other's
00:19:31.70\00:19:33.80
feelings with I statements,
00:19:33.84\00:19:35.74
because if we
can hear each other,
00:19:35.77\00:19:37.64
we don't have to
agree but we're hearing
00:19:37.67\00:19:40.61
or validating that the
other person's feelings
00:19:40.64\00:19:42.48
are real to them
00:19:42.51\00:19:44.01
and then this softens the
mood before we even attempt
00:19:44.05\00:19:47.22
to get into
resolving the conflict,
00:19:47.25\00:19:48.98
we have to hear one another.
00:19:49.02\00:19:50.35
So what happened here was
Mr. Fernando got the position
00:19:50.39\00:19:54.32
and Mr. Acosta
didn't and there was,
00:19:55.16\00:19:57.06
it was a delicate situation,
00:19:57.09\00:19:58.49
it was a difficult
situation right there,
00:19:58.53\00:19:59.86
but Mr. Fernando's
insensitivity to that
00:19:59.89\00:20:02.50
and Mr. Acosta's
inability to just admit,
00:20:02.53\00:20:06.00
my feelings are
wounded, I'm feeling, you know,
00:20:06.03\00:20:08.24
hurt really compounded
the situation very quickly,
00:20:08.27\00:20:11.47
so what is it about
actually putting your feelings
00:20:11.51\00:20:14.54
into words that is so helpful
00:20:14.58\00:20:17.95
because people do
communicate their feelings
00:20:17.98\00:20:20.68
whether they put
them into words or not.
00:20:20.72\00:20:22.45
Here you see communicated
by, I'm not talking to you,
00:20:22.48\00:20:24.99
you know,
stonewalling, you know,
00:20:25.02\00:20:27.69
what is it about putting
him into words, just help me...
00:20:27.72\00:20:29.82
We'll start with
I statements. Yeah.
00:20:29.86\00:20:32.03
You know, and
sometimes when you start...
00:20:32.06\00:20:33.96
What is it about
an I statement though?
00:20:34.00\00:20:35.63
'Cause I'm owning and I'm
accountable for bad feeling.
00:20:35.66\00:20:37.03
Exactly, exactly.
00:20:37.07\00:20:38.40
When I seems like obvious...
00:20:38.43\00:20:39.97
Yeah.
00:20:40.00\00:20:41.34
But not, I mean, maybe
the person may think oh,
00:20:41.37\00:20:42.94
it's obvious that
they know how I feel.
00:20:42.97\00:20:44.97
I don't really
need to say anything
00:20:45.01\00:20:46.34
but in fact nobody knows...
00:20:46.37\00:20:48.58
Right. That's right.
00:20:48.61\00:20:49.94
And so it's actually
very important to say that
00:20:49.98\00:20:51.85
but I do want to say
there is a balance of course,
00:20:51.88\00:20:53.88
we are not to be subdued to our,
00:20:53.92\00:20:55.65
our emotions are not
to be in control of us
00:20:55.68\00:20:57.45
but we are to root
out on holding emotions.
00:20:57.49\00:20:59.49
Yeah.
00:20:59.52\00:21:00.86
And so we do need
to identify emotions
00:21:00.89\00:21:02.62
so that they can
be better though,
00:21:02.66\00:21:03.99
and they can be resolved.
00:21:04.03\00:21:05.36
But if I'm in a
situation like this
00:21:05.39\00:21:06.86
and I'm genuinely wounded
00:21:06.90\00:21:08.53
and maybe by lack of maturity
but it's not gonna help for me
00:21:08.56\00:21:12.20
to go, oh, I
shouldn't feel that way,
00:21:12.23\00:21:14.04
so I'm just
gonna pretend I don't.
00:21:14.07\00:21:15.97
There comes an integrity
issue, you are who you are
00:21:16.00\00:21:19.41
and in the
situation like this, I think
00:21:19.44\00:21:21.08
it would have been appropriate
for Mr. Acosta to say,
00:21:21.11\00:21:24.31
you know what?
00:21:24.35\00:21:25.68
It hurts, it hurts maybe
because I'm not grown up yet
00:21:25.71\00:21:28.45
but it hurts, and I just
want to be honest about that.
00:21:28.48\00:21:30.69
I think that would be a
lot better than I shouldn't,
00:21:30.72\00:21:33.02
you know, because
that's only gonna stifle it
00:21:33.05\00:21:35.66
and then he's gonna
show it another way.
00:21:35.69\00:21:38.66
And these are not just friends,
these are family members.
00:21:38.69\00:21:41.03
This is like a
really close relationship.
00:21:41.06\00:21:42.43
And this is
Fernando, this, you know...
00:21:42.46\00:21:43.87
I don't go up to
the mailman and say,
00:21:43.90\00:21:45.30
"You know how I
feel today mailman
00:21:45.33\00:21:46.74
but my close
friends, they need...
00:21:46.77\00:21:48.10
There is a
relationship here. Exactly.
00:21:48.14\00:21:49.47
Okay, and the silence
by Mrs. Fernando tells me
00:21:49.50\00:21:52.04
she was quietly
supporting her husband.
00:21:52.07\00:21:53.41
Yeah.
00:21:53.44\00:21:54.78
But maybe didn't agree
with how he handled it.
00:21:54.81\00:21:56.14
Right.
00:21:56.18\00:21:57.51
And when you look at this,
yeah, why couldn't Mr. Acosta
00:21:57.55\00:21:59.48
say to a friend
or family member...
00:21:59.51\00:22:00.85
Yeah.
00:22:00.88\00:22:02.22
You know, I worked
as hard and I feel badly
00:22:02.25\00:22:05.05
that I wasn't recognized.
00:22:05.09\00:22:06.69
Yeah. My hard
work wasn't recognized.
00:22:06.72\00:22:08.52
Yeah.
00:22:08.56\00:22:09.89
Mr. Fernando knows
they did it together.
00:22:09.92\00:22:11.26
Yeah.
00:22:11.29\00:22:12.63
Mr. Acosta knows
they did it together.
00:22:12.66\00:22:14.00
That's right.
00:22:14.03\00:22:15.36
But that's where they split out.
00:22:15.40\00:22:16.73
It needed to be talk about.
00:22:16.77\00:22:18.10
And I think our role
as therapist is to be able
00:22:18.13\00:22:19.63
to identify those emotions
so that we can help them
00:22:19.67\00:22:23.20
root out those unholy emotions,
00:22:23.24\00:22:25.31
that's when they can
be in harmony with the...
00:22:25.34\00:22:27.61
So suppression isn't
what we're going for?
00:22:27.64\00:22:29.68
No, no.
00:22:29.71\00:22:31.05
We are getting for,
we're going for the...
00:22:31.08\00:22:32.48
If they're
there, they are there,
00:22:32.51\00:22:33.85
if so if they're suppressed,
they are still there.
00:22:33.88\00:22:35.28
So really confessing a sin
really when they admit that
00:22:35.32\00:22:38.05
they are having
these unholy emotions
00:22:38.09\00:22:39.45
and we can't get pass our
sins unless we confess them.
00:22:39.49\00:22:42.92
And are we also helping
them to identify those feelings
00:22:42.96\00:22:46.56
and to maintain them
because that's very important.
00:22:46.59\00:22:49.13
You know, I have
question for you and it's this.
00:22:49.16\00:22:52.10
How you were able to
get them to come together?
00:22:52.13\00:22:54.17
Yeah.
00:22:54.20\00:22:55.54
Well, I actually
went to where they lived
00:22:55.57\00:22:56.91
and spent several days with them
00:22:56.94\00:22:58.97
and it was just a little
kind of a long drown out thing
00:22:59.01\00:23:01.94
but it really, it really
was key just spending that time.
00:23:01.98\00:23:05.95
They set aside, you
know, the chunk of days
00:23:06.15\00:23:09.68
with me to work
through 'cause they knew that
00:23:09.72\00:23:12.19
they needed the help so, yeah.
00:23:12.22\00:23:14.66
And that is so important
and we were taking about that
00:23:14.69\00:23:16.29
earlier and as our
audience is listening,
00:23:16.32\00:23:19.96
I would encourage them,
if they are having conflict
00:23:20.00\00:23:22.96
to take the
time, to come together,
00:23:23.00\00:23:25.00
to resolve the issues
and if they can't do it
00:23:25.03\00:23:27.57
on their own to
find competent counselor
00:23:27.60\00:23:30.27
or therapist to help
them to work through this.
00:23:30.31\00:23:31.81
And, you know,
and it didn't like
00:23:31.84\00:23:33.27
I had made a list, they
both made their grievance lists
00:23:33.31\00:23:36.04
and as we worked through,
00:23:36.08\00:23:38.31
it didn't look
like it's gonna resolve,
00:23:38.35\00:23:39.68
there was one individual
that he got so wounded that
00:23:39.71\00:23:42.15
it just didn't seem
like it was gonna change
00:23:42.18\00:23:44.72
and so I told them,
you know, you may have,
00:23:44.75\00:23:47.72
one of you may have
to move away, we probably
00:23:47.76\00:23:49.52
not gonna get through
all this items on the list
00:23:49.56\00:23:51.16
but all of the sudden,
the Holy Spirit came out,
00:23:51.19\00:23:54.23
I really can't explain
it and there was just this
00:23:54.26\00:23:56.77
softening that came,
this influence it came
00:23:56.80\00:23:59.40
and the one that I
thought was gonna hold out
00:23:59.43\00:24:01.77
actually said no, you know,
00:24:01.80\00:24:03.14
I was wrong took
even though I got hurt.
00:24:03.17\00:24:04.84
I was wrong in
the way I handle it.
00:24:04.87\00:24:06.68
And from that
point forward, it just,
00:24:06.71\00:24:08.58
like the flood gates of heaven,
I'm serious like opened up,
00:24:08.61\00:24:11.31
and all of a sudden
this healing wave came in
00:24:11.35\00:24:13.98
and they were
within a couple of hours
00:24:14.02\00:24:16.38
talking like old friends,
it was truly remarkable.
00:24:16.42\00:24:18.55
Amen, amen.
00:24:18.59\00:24:19.92
Do you all find as
Christian counselors
00:24:19.95\00:24:21.29
that sometimes we wonder
what in the role did we do?
00:24:21.32\00:24:23.69
And all of the sudden
the Holy Spirit is doing
00:24:23.73\00:24:25.26
something that, we
just, we just see that
00:24:25.29\00:24:27.56
it's not really us but somehow
the spirit is in the session.
00:24:27.60\00:24:30.53
Yes, He is the great
counselor. That's right.
00:24:30.57\00:24:32.40
Yes, yes and we
need to always invite him
00:24:32.43\00:24:34.07
into our counseling
sessions, the Holy Spirit.
00:24:34.10\00:24:36.47
Absolutely.
00:24:36.50\00:24:37.84
Amen, I know I'm
helpless without Him,
00:24:37.87\00:24:40.38
I would wreck people and
I know that as a counselor
00:24:40.41\00:24:43.85
so I pray with my
clients, you know,
00:24:43.88\00:24:46.11
and I tell them I need
God, this is why I want to pray,
00:24:46.15\00:24:49.35
you know, this
is too much for me.
00:24:49.38\00:24:50.92
How important is it for us
to be so abiding with Christ
00:24:50.95\00:24:54.82
to ourselves so in tune.
00:24:54.86\00:24:56.19
That's right. That's right.
00:24:56.22\00:24:57.56
Amen. Yeah, shall I recap?
00:24:57.59\00:24:58.99
Yeah, go ahead.
00:24:59.03\00:25:00.36
Okay, so you started
out talking about the EAR
00:25:00.40\00:25:04.00
which is love is
empathy, ask, reflecting back
00:25:04.03\00:25:07.14
and even the FBI uses
this to deescalate situations.
00:25:07.17\00:25:10.64
They don't use EAR that's
00:25:10.67\00:25:12.41
I wrote but the FBI
uses reflective listening.
00:25:12.44\00:25:15.24
Reflective listening. Yeah.
00:25:15.28\00:25:16.61
So that's something...
00:25:16.64\00:25:17.98
That will be cool
if FBI use something
00:25:18.01\00:25:19.48
that I wrote but,
you know, not yet.
00:25:19.51\00:25:21.92
So we can model
that for our clients
00:25:21.95\00:25:23.79
the reflective
listening and the whole bit.
00:25:23.82\00:25:26.49
I really like
what you said, David,
00:25:26.52\00:25:27.86
about life is so busy
that we're not taking time
00:25:27.89\00:25:30.63
to resolve our conflicts.
00:25:30.66\00:25:32.06
We just need to
learn to take the time.
00:25:32.09\00:25:33.96
We talked about that.
00:25:34.00\00:25:35.73
And I love what you
said, Jean, about conflict
00:25:35.76\00:25:39.53
is not a negative thing,
00:25:39.57\00:25:41.70
it doesn't have
to be negative thing.
00:25:41.74\00:25:43.07
We can normalize
conflict because so many couples
00:25:43.10\00:25:46.57
just hate the
conflict itself but yet,
00:25:46.61\00:25:50.05
if we can put a new
face on it and say that
00:25:50.08\00:25:53.21
this actually
can be for our good,
00:25:53.25\00:25:55.18
if we learn how to
do this the right way.
00:25:55.22\00:25:56.85
See that as an opportunity.
00:25:56.89\00:25:58.52
Absolutely. Yeah.
00:25:58.55\00:25:59.89
It can be a
bonding experience...
00:25:59.92\00:26:01.29
It means people care. Yeah.
00:26:01.32\00:26:03.02
And also through the
bonding we can actually learn
00:26:03.06\00:26:05.43
to know one
another on a deeper level
00:26:05.46\00:26:08.10
more so than we
knew each other before.
00:26:08.13\00:26:10.80
We talked about
getting our spirits
00:26:10.83\00:26:13.00
not only as
counselors but the couples
00:26:13.03\00:26:15.07
or whoever
going through conflict
00:26:15.10\00:26:16.71
in a right
spirit using scripture,
00:26:16.74\00:26:18.54
using prayer to
soften the spirit.
00:26:18.57\00:26:21.78
We talked about
what is our intension,
00:26:21.81\00:26:23.75
what are we
thinking in conflict,
00:26:23.78\00:26:25.51
are we just in this to win?
00:26:25.55\00:26:28.22
And if we are, then we
shouldn't be in a big rush
00:26:28.25\00:26:30.49
to win, we need to slow down.
00:26:30.52\00:26:32.85
I statements were talked about.
00:26:32.89\00:26:34.56
I statements are wonderful
ways to get to the emotions
00:26:34.59\00:26:38.66
that each of us are feeling.
00:26:38.69\00:26:40.80
I'm feeling such and
such because such and such,
00:26:40.83\00:26:43.87
and then how can we not validate
00:26:43.90\00:26:46.77
the other person's feelings.
00:26:46.80\00:26:48.14
We don't have to
agree with those feelings
00:26:48.17\00:26:49.50
but those feelings are real,
00:26:49.54\00:26:50.87
so I statements
are important to learn.
00:26:50.91\00:26:52.71
Emotions are
critical when we want to move
00:26:52.74\00:26:56.01
towards conflict
resolution, we have to do that.
00:26:56.04\00:27:00.82
Our role is to help identify
those emotions as counselors.
00:27:00.85\00:27:04.35
A lot of times those
emotions are just so mixed up
00:27:04.39\00:27:06.92
in the conflict that
it's just a big jumble.
00:27:06.96\00:27:10.03
And then we talked
lastly spending that time,
00:27:10.06\00:27:12.89
spending time to come together,
letting the Holy Spirit work.
00:27:12.93\00:27:17.17
Someone said that it
is better to remain silent
00:27:17.20\00:27:19.60
and be
thoughtful than to speak up
00:27:19.63\00:27:21.30
and remove all doubts.
00:27:21.34\00:27:23.77
The Proverb says something
similar, Proverbs 17:28,
00:27:23.81\00:27:27.74
even if the fool is
thought wise, he keeps...
00:27:27.78\00:27:31.05
"Even the fool is
thought wise if he keep silent,
00:27:31.08\00:27:34.42
and discerning if
he holds his tongue."
00:27:34.45\00:27:37.05
I think we all agree
that we need to learn
00:27:37.09\00:27:38.65
better listening skills
and we've tried to help you
00:27:38.69\00:27:40.92
do that in this program
of A Multitude of Counselors.
00:27:40.96\00:27:46.06
We're gonna be talking in
future programs about anger,
00:27:46.09\00:27:49.26
about communication,
so please join us again.
00:27:49.30\00:27:51.93
We so appreciate your
support, and pray for us
00:27:51.97\00:27:54.74
as we work
through some of life's
00:27:54.77\00:27:56.14
most perplexing
problems in the faith
00:27:56.17\00:27:59.11
and strength of Jesus.
00:27:59.14\00:28:00.64