Welcome to A
Multitude of Counselors.
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My name is
Jennifer Jill Schwirzer,
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and I'm so glad you
joined us for our program today.
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We are a program devoted
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to helping raise
awareness about mental health,
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human psychology from
a biblical standpoint,
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and we like to also
offer really practical, viable
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and also
spiritually grounded solutions
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for some of the
most difficult problems
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that we face as human beings.
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I have with me
today a treatment team
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and I would like to
introduce them one by one.
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First we have David Guerrero.
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David is from Wisconsin
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and David is so many
things that makes me dizzy,
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he is a pastor,
he is a chaplain,
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he is a life coach
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and he's a
biblically certified counselor.
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He also runs a ministry
called "Rekindle the Flame"
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under which he does seminars.
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And have you written a book yet?
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Yes, I have.
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Oh, he has written a book, okay.
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A book on fatherhood.
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A book on fatherhood?
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It's called Fatherhood:
Reclaiming Your God Given Role.
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Reclaiming Your God
Given Role, that's fabulous,
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you have to send me a
complimentary copy of that.
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I will do that. Thank you.
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And David likes
to work with people
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in a variety presentations
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and he likes to
help people communicate
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and that's what we're
gonna be talking about today.
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We also have Christina Cecotto.
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She is from Georgia.
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And Christina is a
licensed masters in social work.
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She works at
Wildwood Lifestyle Center
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as a mental health counselor
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and she loves to
help people learn
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healthy lifestyle practices
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which in turn
affects their mental health
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and she also does counseling.
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She likes to help
people through things like
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mood disorders,
anxiety and phobias,
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special little
concentration there
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and that's significant
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because phobias are the
most common anxiety diagnosis,
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so great choice there,
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Christina great to have you.
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We also have
Nivishi, Dr. Nivishi Edwards.
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Dr. Nivishi is from Tennessee
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where she conducts a
virtual private practice.
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And what does that mean,
virtual private practice,
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you mean you
counsel via, you know...
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Via the internet, Skype,
Spacetime, Google Hangout.
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Okay, and that's awesome
just wanted to clarify that.
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You also teach at
Southern Adventist University,
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and she's an inspiring
author and a presenter,
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and 'cause that's
where I met at summer,
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we were both presenting
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and just an
amazing all around person.
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She is also
interestingly enough single
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and a marriage therapist.
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So go figure, you know,
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but she really does
excel in helping coach people
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through relationship issues
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and we really appreciate
your presence for today
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because we're gonna be
talking about communication,
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so it's right up your alley.
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Thank you.
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And we also have my
co-host, Rob Davidson.
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Rob is from the DC area,
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and Rob is a
private practice counselor,
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he likes to help with a
variety of different things,
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but one of the things he
really focuses on is again
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biblical manhood integrity
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and servant
leadership in helping coaching
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and mentoring men in
those kind of things,
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so each one of you're so needed
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and so welcome
today on our program.
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We're going to be
talking about Miscommunication.
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And that's not of a
women, it a reality.
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Miscommunication,
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so let me define
miscommunication.
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Simply poor habits
of transmitting thoughts
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and feelings, fair enough.
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But let's look at
good communication
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to better understand
what is miscommunication?
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Good communication is
when the sender sends a message
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and the receiver
receives the message
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and then gives
feedback back to the sender,
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effectively sending
their own message of feedback
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and that feedback loop,
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positive
feedback loop continues,
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that's good communication.
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But lot of things can go wrong
with communication, can't they?
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And you and I know
that better than anyone,
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so the prevalence of
miscommunication is crazy.
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I would say we're
all still learning
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how to be good communicators.
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The cause in my
experience is most often
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absence of good communication
habits in the family of origin
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because we human
beings learn by imitation.
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And we're like wet
cement as we grow up
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and we take the
impress of the people around us
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and we adopt the thinking
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that we see modeled by
them may not be articulated,
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we're kind of
subverbal when we're children,
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but we still take
on the believe system
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of those around us,
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and we also mimic the behaviors
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including the communication
habits of those around us.
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So that I see as the primary
cause although there can be,
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you know, traumatic or
other kinds of brain injury
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that interrupt a person's
ability to listen and speak.
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Prognosis, what do we
usually say about prognosis?
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That's good. Very good.
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People can learn, can't they?
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God has created us
with tremendous resiliency
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and the Holy Spirit comes in
and empowers that resiliency.
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We're created by God,
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He knew that when
we found ourselves
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in this sinful context,
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we would need the ability
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to make a come back from damage.
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He knew we would get damaged
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but he also knew
that it would be possible
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to recover from that damage
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and to learn new
habits of functioning,
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a new habits of living.
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We also want to
look at treatments.
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I would say some of the
best treatments are seminars,
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self help books,
of course counseling,
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because a counselor
can sit down and say,
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now what just happened here
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and sort of get you
to analyze what's wrong.
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And I would just say
practice, we need to practice,
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and that's where
role modeling comes in,
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and we've talked
about that before.
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One of the things that
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I see is a big cause
of miscommunication is
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we don't generally
successfully or effectively
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communicate our emotions.
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We, yes, I think
especially in western culture
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we aren't that good at
identifying our emotions,
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and then communicating
those emotions effectively.
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And one of the things I do
with my clients is I tell them
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expand your
emotional vocabulary,
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and I'll give them
what's called the feeling wheel,
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and the feeling
wheel is like a diagram
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that shows all
the different emotions
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and all the
different colors of emotion
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we have as human beings.
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And I get them
to look at the words
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that describe those feelings,
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and start to
learn to identify those,
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because you know, we all have
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this little part of
our brain called the insula
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install you know, and
the hard drive so to speak.
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God put it there but
we don't always use it.
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And that insula is
responsible for what we call
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interoceptive awareness
which is self awareness.
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The ability to read our
own even physical state,
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I'm hungry, I'm tired
and our emotional state,
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I feel my stress level rising,
I'm starting to get angry,
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so that interoceptive awareness
is something we cultivate,
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and then we can also cultivate
the ability to communicate it
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effectively to those around us,
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so that we can start to connect
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on an emotional
level with people
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which once you
have an emotional bond,
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there is desire to get along.
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And so a lot of the
miscommunication comes
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because there
is a lack of a bond
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and then there is no good
will there in that relationship,
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so once you
establish that goodwill,
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then you have a
desire to get a along
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and more motivation
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to communicate
effectively, makes sense.
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Yes.
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So what have you guys
used with your clients
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and what has worked
for you in your lives
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as you've learned
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how to become
great communicators
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which I assume you have?
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One of the first thing
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I typically
encourage clients to do
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when they're having
issues with miscommunication
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and I think,
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I teach this because it
resonates with me personally,
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something I learned
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as a high schooler is with my
high school guidance counselor.
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And she taught me to do
the, I feel, when you, I need.
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So it's I feel, whatever.
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When you, whatever.
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I need, whatever.
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And sometimes just
having the opportunity
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to talk with someone
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and break down what's going on
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in the emotional
needs at that point.
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Diminishes whatever
feelings may be occurring
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in the communication experience,
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and then it enhances
the opportunity to have
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as you're
talking about, Jennifer,
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the bond that takes place.
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An emotional bond. Yes.
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And that's very powerful
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because what we do
at Rekindle Ministries
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is we inspire hope
through giving information
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and some of the information
is what you just said.
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And what we usually do
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and I know this may
sound little frightening is
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one of the first
things that I'll tell them is,
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did you know that 85 percent
of marriages end up in divorce
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because of lack of
communication and...
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That's very scary.
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She said, it is scary.
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But we move from
there saying, well,
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what is the cause of that?
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And when you look
at the world today,
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and one question I asked him
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growing up who told
you how to communicate?
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And there is that blank
stare that you give me now.
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And I'll say,
when you were in school
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who told you how to communicate?
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You mean in terms of didactic.
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Yes. Yeah.
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And I said, when did you
take a class of communication?
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And they say, never.
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And I say you know what?
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I have my master degree
and I never took a class on
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being effective
in communicating.
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And I said, so there is hope
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because today
during this first session
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we're gonna share with you,
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how you can be
effective in your communication
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and turn this thing around.
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I love that because
it's occurred to me as well
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that we train for our career,
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and we spend thousands
and thousands of dollars
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and hours and hours of time,
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but what ultimately determines
our success as a human being
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really...
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When you're on your
death bed is it that oh, no,
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I didn't accomplish
enough or is that you know,
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did I love and ones I
love, did I forgive and did I...
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that's what my dad cared about
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as he was dying of
cancer was his family.
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And if only we sit people down
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and teach them
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how to communicate
in the school system
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that's where it should
take place at least partially.
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It's also important to remember
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that we're always communicating.
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Yeah.
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All the times we think
00:10:17.88\00:10:19.21
communication
only happens verbally,
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but we...
00:10:20.62\00:10:21.95
Body language.
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Body language is a
form of communication.
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How we say it.
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Absolutely,
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and so it's
important to remember
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that even when we don't
speak we're communicating
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and the question for
us to ask ourselves is
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what are we communicating?
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Okay.
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I don't know if anybody...
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So what is a
message that I'm sending.
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Yeah, absolutely. Oh, yes.
00:10:39.30\00:10:40.64
Right, by what I'm saying,
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I'm saying in my body language.
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Yes.
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What is being communicated
is well above 50 percent
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through body language.
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Well, above 50 percent. Yeah.
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I don't if anybody
remembers that percentage but...
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Yeah.
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Also go to a baby sometime
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that doesn't
understand words and go,
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"You are the ugliest
baby I've ever seen."
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And they'll just
feel like smiling
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'cause they're looking
at your facial expression.
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Okay, so what you
guys saying is that
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developing communication
skills is very crucial
00:11:02.22\00:11:05.89
for miscommunication.
00:11:05.93\00:11:08.86
Another thing I think that
00:11:08.90\00:11:10.57
causes miscommunication
is all that noise
00:11:10.60\00:11:12.63
we have in our heads sometimes,
00:11:12.67\00:11:15.14
I think that we
really need to identify
00:11:15.17\00:11:17.37
what thoughts are going on,
00:11:17.41\00:11:19.14
are we judging the
other person's motives
00:11:19.17\00:11:20.94
for what they're saying
00:11:20.98\00:11:22.31
or we wanting to hear something
00:11:22.34\00:11:24.25
when we're
actually not hearing that.
00:11:24.28\00:11:26.18
I think another thing
too is cognitive distortions
00:11:26.21\00:11:30.12
which in other words we can
call them thinking mistakes,
00:11:30.15\00:11:33.39
which may be, big
one is mind reading,
00:11:33.42\00:11:35.89
so thinking okay,
they don't like me
00:11:35.92\00:11:38.56
or interpreting the
message in a incorrect way.
00:11:38.59\00:11:42.00
And also the deep core
beliefs that each of us
00:11:42.03\00:11:45.10
have such as being
unlovable, worthless, helpless
00:11:45.13\00:11:49.87
can causes to have a filter
00:11:49.90\00:11:52.44
which we allow owing
that which we agree with
00:11:52.47\00:11:55.34
to come through that's
in harmony with our belief
00:11:55.38\00:11:56.98
so it continues to strengthen
our distorted thoughts
00:11:57.01\00:11:59.78
or distorted beliefs.
00:11:59.81\00:12:01.75
And you know that is
what causes to conflict
00:12:01.78\00:12:05.12
because what you're thinking
00:12:05.15\00:12:06.49
and what I'm
thinking may be different.
00:12:06.52\00:12:08.12
My values and your
values may be different
00:12:08.16\00:12:10.73
and when we
start to express them,
00:12:10.76\00:12:12.79
there comes the conflict.
00:12:12.83\00:12:14.26
Another major issue...
00:12:14.30\00:12:15.76
And then they come
to miscommunication.
00:12:15.80\00:12:17.13
Yeah.
00:12:17.17\00:12:18.50
And that's why
it's always good too
00:12:18.53\00:12:19.87
and I try to tell the people
00:12:19.90\00:12:21.24
I'm counseling that
when one is done to say,
00:12:21.27\00:12:23.54
what did you hear me saying?
00:12:23.57\00:12:24.91
Absolutely. Yeah.
00:12:24.94\00:12:26.31
The speaker listener technique.
00:12:26.34\00:12:27.68
Yeah, yes.
00:12:27.71\00:12:29.04
Actually you know
about that, I'm sure.
00:12:29.08\00:12:30.41
Absolutely, I love
to use that, I love it.
00:12:30.45\00:12:32.41
What is it?
00:12:32.45\00:12:34.22
Okay, do you
want to practice it?
00:12:34.25\00:12:35.92
Yeah, let's do it. Let's try.
00:12:35.95\00:12:37.29
So real quick, you know,
00:12:37.32\00:12:40.32
I woke up this morning
and I was a bit anxious.
00:12:40.36\00:12:43.19
Okay, so what I
hear you saying is
00:12:43.22\00:12:45.06
when you woke up this
morning you felt anxious.
00:12:45.09\00:12:47.70
Yeah. Bit anxious.
00:12:47.73\00:12:49.06
Yeah, that's
exactly how I was feeling.
00:12:49.10\00:12:51.53
And I wasn't sure what
was gonna happen today.
00:12:51.57\00:12:53.84
And I'm not sure if I
want it today to happen.
00:12:53.87\00:12:56.67
And so you weren't sure
what was gonna happen today,
00:12:56.71\00:13:00.71
and you were not
sure about that--
00:13:00.74\00:13:03.31
Would you say that
again for me, please?
00:13:03.35\00:13:04.81
Yeah, not sure if I
want it today to happen.
00:13:04.85\00:13:08.25
And you're saying you're
not sure when you woke up,
00:13:08.28\00:13:11.15
you weren't sure if you
want it today to happen.
00:13:11.19\00:13:12.95
So what's happening
here is she's validating...
00:13:12.99\00:13:14.89
Reflecting back,
what you're saying.
00:13:14.92\00:13:16.52
She's validating what I'm saying
00:13:16.56\00:13:18.23
and that's what I
need as the speaker
00:13:18.26\00:13:20.36
but there is a lot more to it,
00:13:20.40\00:13:21.73
but that's just
the tip of the iceberg.
00:13:21.76\00:13:23.10
And what some people do is this,
00:13:23.13\00:13:25.73
what do you mean you
want to start your day?
00:13:25.77\00:13:27.80
Yeah.
00:13:27.84\00:13:29.17
Or they fix it immediately,
00:13:29.20\00:13:30.54
oh, don't be,
don't be discouraged,
00:13:30.57\00:13:31.91
everything is fine.
00:13:31.94\00:13:33.27
And this is not the
listener speaker technique.
00:13:33.31\00:13:34.64
Then you get up
and pray this morning?
00:13:34.68\00:13:36.01
How come you?
00:13:36.04\00:13:37.38
Lot of judgment.
00:13:37.41\00:13:38.75
Then there is that
what you're saying.
00:13:38.78\00:13:40.12
With couples if we
can learn to practice this
00:13:40.15\00:13:41.55
which is getting them
out of their comfort zones,
00:13:41.58\00:13:43.79
then they're able to
start to hear one another
00:13:43.82\00:13:47.49
in ways that they
haven't heard before.
00:13:47.52\00:13:48.92
Absolutely.
00:13:48.96\00:13:50.29
It's refreshing to
see it happen actually.
00:13:50.33\00:13:51.66
It's powerful if
people are willing to do.
00:13:51.69\00:13:53.60
I have tried to coach people
00:13:53.63\00:13:55.13
through the
speaker listener technique
00:13:55.16\00:13:56.97
and I've done it
00:13:57.00\00:13:58.33
and it's been amazing
almost without exception
00:13:58.37\00:14:00.84
but there been a few cases
I couldn't get them to do it.
00:14:00.87\00:14:03.87
It's like they
couldn't get out of their
00:14:03.91\00:14:05.34
own subjective
experience long enough
00:14:05.37\00:14:07.08
to receive the other person's.
00:14:07.11\00:14:09.04
I like what you're saying
about the static in the mind,
00:14:09.08\00:14:12.91
and the preconceived ideas
00:14:12.95\00:14:14.75
we have in our schematic beliefs
00:14:14.78\00:14:17.49
that color our ability to take
in one another person saying
00:14:17.52\00:14:21.49
almost like we
sort of predestined them
00:14:21.52\00:14:23.86
to fit the mold of
people in the past.
00:14:23.89\00:14:26.76
And I want to pursue
that threat a little bit,
00:14:26.80\00:14:30.20
we call that in
marriage counseling,
00:14:30.23\00:14:32.27
I don't if you
guys label the same way
00:14:32.30\00:14:33.94
but I call it
negative interpretation
00:14:33.97\00:14:36.97
where the one partner
00:14:37.01\00:14:39.47
may have every good
intention toward their partner
00:14:39.51\00:14:42.24
but the other one
interprets it negatively
00:14:42.28\00:14:45.41
over and over again
00:14:45.45\00:14:47.05
and what I want
to bring out is that,
00:14:47.08\00:14:48.65
that's super frustrating.
00:14:48.68\00:14:50.42
I have clients that
negatively interpret me
00:14:50.45\00:14:52.99
and I find it frustrating
00:14:53.02\00:14:54.36
and it really
calls out my patience
00:14:54.39\00:14:55.92
and I have to realize that,
00:14:55.96\00:14:57.53
you know, they're
struggling with something
00:14:57.56\00:14:59.49
but they haven't overcome yet
00:14:59.53\00:15:01.06
and they need to
develop a new skill of receiving
00:15:01.10\00:15:03.73
what I'm actually saying
00:15:03.77\00:15:05.10
instead of taking it
personally, you know.
00:15:05.13\00:15:06.47
Right.
00:15:06.50\00:15:07.84
Doesn't the scripture...
00:15:07.87\00:15:09.20
I'm sorry, oh,
the scripture says
00:15:09.24\00:15:10.57
for us to
assume positive intent.
00:15:10.61\00:15:11.94
Yes.
00:15:11.97\00:15:13.31
Don't assume the wrong
thing right off the bat.
00:15:13.34\00:15:14.68
Right, and
something I notice too is we
00:15:14.71\00:15:16.14
sometimes with that example,
00:15:16.18\00:15:18.28
a person can't
believe they won't believe
00:15:18.31\00:15:21.08
what you're saying
even though you think,
00:15:21.12\00:15:22.88
this is for me only I can know.
00:15:22.92\00:15:24.25
Yeah.
00:15:24.29\00:15:25.62
What I mean so
I'm telling you, yeah,
00:15:25.65\00:15:26.99
the other person
won't believe what you mean,
00:15:27.02\00:15:29.62
and they won't take
what you're saying as true.
00:15:29.66\00:15:32.16
And yeah, as
far as I'm concerned
00:15:32.19\00:15:34.10
if I have a choice
between believing good things
00:15:34.13\00:15:37.97
about what they're saying,
00:15:38.00\00:15:39.33
even though they might
be saying something bad
00:15:39.37\00:15:40.70
and just being oblivious
to their negative intent,
00:15:40.74\00:15:43.27
or assuming that being negative
00:15:43.30\00:15:45.81
when may be
they're being positive.
00:15:45.84\00:15:47.24
I'd much rather err on
the side of being oblivious.
00:15:47.28\00:15:48.88
Right.
00:15:48.91\00:15:50.25
'Cause I'd be happier. Yeah.
00:15:50.28\00:15:51.61
The technology I often
used for that two of them,
00:15:51.65\00:15:54.28
I call it's Thinking, Thinking.
00:15:54.32\00:15:55.65
Yes, okay.
00:15:55.68\00:15:57.02
And the committee in my head.
00:15:57.05\00:15:58.99
So if I have a committee
telling me all these things
00:15:59.02\00:16:01.26
that probably aren't true,
00:16:01.29\00:16:02.86
I need to work on
dismissing that committee.
00:16:02.89\00:16:05.56
Wow. Okay.
00:16:05.59\00:16:06.93
And taking the
person at face value
00:16:06.96\00:16:08.66
accepting them in
the positive light
00:16:08.70\00:16:11.13
with which they come.
00:16:11.17\00:16:12.50
And if I have this
Thinking, Thinking,
00:16:12.53\00:16:13.97
I need to turn that off as well.
00:16:14.00\00:16:15.34
Yeah.
00:16:15.37\00:16:16.71
And invite positivity.
00:16:16.74\00:16:18.07
And Jesus said as a man
thinks in his heart, so is he.
00:16:18.11\00:16:21.38
Yes.
00:16:21.41\00:16:23.04
So as soon as you're
done making your comment,
00:16:23.08\00:16:25.11
can you get into
the presenting problem?
00:16:25.15\00:16:26.48
Oh, sure.
00:16:26.51\00:16:27.85
When you get right down to it,
00:16:27.88\00:16:29.22
when couples
are talking together
00:16:29.25\00:16:30.59
and the emotion start
to heat up a little bit,
00:16:30.62\00:16:31.95
we have to remember,
00:16:31.99\00:16:33.56
this person loves me
and I love that person.
00:16:33.59\00:16:35.49
Amen.
00:16:35.52\00:16:36.86
That is the underlying current
00:16:36.89\00:16:38.23
and we can get
through this conflict
00:16:38.26\00:16:40.56
if we remember the big
picture in the bottom line.
00:16:40.60\00:16:43.43
Yeah, love conquers all.
00:16:43.47\00:16:44.80
We're gonna be
continuing a lot of this stuff,
00:16:44.83\00:16:46.33
when we talk about
conflict resolution and anger,
00:16:46.37\00:16:49.00
so we've covered a
lot of really ground here,
00:16:49.04\00:16:51.74
go ahead and get into
that problem if you will.
00:16:51.77\00:16:53.54
Okay, presenting problem
00:16:53.58\00:16:54.91
Tina and Rodger are an
older upper middle class
00:16:54.94\00:16:57.65
African-American couple
00:16:57.68\00:16:59.51
with a long established
pattern of miscommunication
00:16:59.55\00:17:02.18
in their 38 year marriage.
00:17:02.22\00:17:04.22
Tina wishes Rodger
would talk to her more
00:17:04.25\00:17:07.02
and Rodger
interprets Tina's pushing
00:17:07.06\00:17:09.16
for more
communication as criticism.
00:17:09.19\00:17:11.79
Tina feels abandoned
00:17:11.83\00:17:13.53
and Rodger feels that
Tina finds him inadequate.
00:17:13.56\00:17:16.46
She says he doesn't love me.
00:17:16.50\00:17:18.57
He says, I'll never
be good enough for her.
00:17:18.60\00:17:22.17
Tina has a group of
lady friends at church
00:17:22.20\00:17:23.94
who engage in
various missionary projects.
00:17:23.97\00:17:26.51
And Rodger loves his hobby
00:17:26.54\00:17:27.88
of building musical instruments.
00:17:27.91\00:17:29.61
In their 60s they've seen
position to age to get together
00:17:29.64\00:17:33.92
in an
unsatisfying if stable union.
00:17:33.95\00:17:36.99
Can you help Tina
and Rodger to break free?
00:17:37.02\00:17:39.55
Okay, guys, what would you do?
00:17:39.59\00:17:42.19
What's the first thing,
00:17:42.22\00:17:43.56
what's first
step would you take?
00:17:43.59\00:17:45.23
One of the things
that I think is crucial.
00:17:45.26\00:17:47.26
I just want to read this
00:17:47.30\00:17:48.63
and then may be I can
explain this little further.
00:17:48.66\00:17:50.50
It says the will of
God is that his love
00:17:50.53\00:17:53.07
shall close the eyes,
the ears, and the heart,
00:17:53.10\00:17:57.01
to all such provocations
00:17:57.04\00:17:58.91
and to all the suggestions with
which Satan would fill them.
00:17:58.94\00:18:03.14
So I think a
big part of this is,
00:18:03.18\00:18:07.25
of course there is
many aspects of this,
00:18:07.28\00:18:09.05
but a big part of this is to
be able to be filled completely
00:18:09.08\00:18:12.89
with the love of Christ.
00:18:12.92\00:18:14.59
So that our eyes, our ears,
00:18:14.62\00:18:16.29
and our heart is closed
to all such provocations
00:18:16.32\00:18:20.30
and suggestions from
Satan or any of that noise.
00:18:20.33\00:18:21.66
And so what are the
provocations and suggestions
00:18:21.70\00:18:23.57
like, what are
you saying are those
00:18:23.60\00:18:25.50
provocations and suggestions?
00:18:25.53\00:18:26.87
So any of the
things that aren't true
00:18:26.90\00:18:28.97
that we might be
telling ourselves
00:18:29.00\00:18:30.91
all that noise I was
talking about earlier.
00:18:30.94\00:18:32.91
The assumptions we
make about other people...
00:18:32.94\00:18:34.28
Exactly judging...
00:18:34.31\00:18:35.64
Without really knowing.
00:18:35.68\00:18:37.01
Judging other's motives,
00:18:37.05\00:18:38.38
that's spirit of
let me justify myself
00:18:38.41\00:18:39.88
and I don't want to hear you.
00:18:39.91\00:18:41.35
And not coming together
00:18:41.38\00:18:42.78
to truly
understand the other party.
00:18:42.82\00:18:44.55
But coming together to
be able to justify self.
00:18:44.59\00:18:47.69
So you're saying we as
individuals have a choice.
00:18:47.72\00:18:50.76
Communication
involves two individuals
00:18:50.79\00:18:53.63
making choices to
communicate effectively.
00:18:53.66\00:18:55.86
And we can, what is
it, close our ears to all?
00:18:55.90\00:18:58.73
Close our ears,
our eyes and our heart
00:18:58.77\00:19:01.30
to all such provocations
and to all the suggestions
00:19:01.34\00:19:03.91
with which
Satan would fill them,
00:19:03.94\00:19:05.41
so that way the
couple can come together
00:19:05.44\00:19:08.08
and actually take them,
00:19:08.11\00:19:09.44
take what they're saying
at face value as you said.
00:19:09.48\00:19:13.01
And you kind of have
to forget the history,
00:19:13.05\00:19:14.42
'cause lot of times when
you working with couples,
00:19:14.45\00:19:15.95
there is this huge
legacy that you're dealing with.
00:19:15.98\00:19:19.15
And if you can
get them to start over
00:19:19.19\00:19:21.46
and sort of like
be willing to believe
00:19:21.49\00:19:24.23
that God can
create a new thing here.
00:19:24.26\00:19:26.59
You know, that's
half the battle at their,
00:19:26.63\00:19:28.73
'cause they tend to carry
their baggage into the present.
00:19:28.76\00:19:30.83
Yep.
00:19:30.87\00:19:32.20
With Tina and Rodger,
00:19:32.23\00:19:33.57
I wonder about
their level of awareness
00:19:33.60\00:19:34.94
and I think it starts
there with a desire to change
00:19:34.97\00:19:37.17
and have new skills
and to learn new skills
00:19:37.21\00:19:39.37
and incorporate it
into relational experience.
00:19:39.41\00:19:42.24
They have a system
that's been working for them,
00:19:42.28\00:19:45.08
although it's an
unhealthy system.
00:19:45.11\00:19:46.82
Yeah. It's been working.
00:19:46.85\00:19:48.32
They've been married
for 38 years, and so.
00:19:48.35\00:19:50.89
It's stable.
00:19:50.92\00:19:52.25
Yes. Yeah.
00:19:52.29\00:19:53.62
And so if that
is working for them,
00:19:53.66\00:19:55.42
and they desire
nothing different,
00:19:55.46\00:19:57.49
they won't have
anything more healthy.
00:19:57.53\00:19:59.73
Sure.
00:19:59.76\00:20:01.10
So awareness and
a desire for change
00:20:01.13\00:20:03.87
would need to be first
steps with this couple.
00:20:03.90\00:20:06.97
Yeah.
00:20:07.00\00:20:08.34
As I read this,
00:20:08.37\00:20:09.70
what I'm seeing
and hearing is that
00:20:09.74\00:20:13.01
there is this slow
eroding in their relationship
00:20:13.04\00:20:17.21
and there is a distancing.
00:20:17.25\00:20:19.58
So one thing
that I would try to do
00:20:19.61\00:20:21.42
and I've done in
our counseling sessions,
00:20:21.45\00:20:23.05
is I asked a couple
00:20:23.08\00:20:24.72
if they would be willing
to write up to ten things
00:20:24.75\00:20:28.09
that they want to do
in the next say two years.
00:20:28.12\00:20:31.59
And they'll
write them separately.
00:20:31.63\00:20:33.56
Do like as an activities or...
00:20:33.60\00:20:35.53
Yeah, doing activity,
00:20:35.56\00:20:36.90
places they want to go
think that they've aspired to,
00:20:36.93\00:20:39.33
yeah, dates or whatever.
00:20:39.37\00:20:40.70
And then they'll take may be
00:20:40.74\00:20:42.07
two, three minutes
and write them down,
00:20:42.10\00:20:43.44
and I'll say now
switch your papers.
00:20:43.47\00:20:46.27
Now I'll say, and I
want to do something
00:20:46.31\00:20:48.21
check off things on that
list that you would like to do.
00:20:48.24\00:20:52.65
And what I'm trying to do is
00:20:52.68\00:20:54.35
bring them
together on common ground
00:20:54.38\00:20:56.52
and sometimes the
husband and wife will say,
00:20:56.55\00:20:58.89
I didn't know that
you like to do that,
00:20:58.92\00:21:00.26
yeah, you know I do.
00:21:00.29\00:21:01.96
And then taking to the
next step and say well,
00:21:01.99\00:21:04.33
let's begin
talking about those things.
00:21:04.36\00:21:06.29
And what I'm attempting to
do is to bring them together
00:21:06.33\00:21:08.90
on common ground to
start to talk to one another
00:21:08.93\00:21:11.50
about these things.
00:21:11.53\00:21:12.90
That is so powerful,
00:21:12.93\00:21:14.27
it reminds me a
little of love languages
00:21:14.30\00:21:15.90
where the whole genius
of love languages is I know
00:21:15.94\00:21:19.17
what that other person hears,
00:21:19.21\00:21:21.44
I know what kind of
language they can hear
00:21:21.48\00:21:23.65
and I learned to
talk in their language
00:21:23.68\00:21:25.25
so it kind of pulls
you out of yourself.
00:21:25.28\00:21:26.92
And that's
exactly what that exercise
00:21:26.95\00:21:28.38
does is it kind of pulls
the person out of themselves
00:21:28.42\00:21:31.72
into the other person
subjective life, beautiful.
00:21:31.75\00:21:34.99
I'm glad you
brought up love languages
00:21:35.02\00:21:36.66
because many times
00:21:36.69\00:21:38.09
we will say this
is my love language
00:21:38.13\00:21:40.53
and this is yours,
00:21:40.56\00:21:41.90
in that way this is mine
00:21:41.93\00:21:43.26
and I'm not
gonna try the others.
00:21:43.30\00:21:44.63
Yeah.
00:21:44.67\00:21:46.00
And I think that
if you look at Jesus,
00:21:46.03\00:21:47.37
He was very well rounded
when it came to love languages.
00:21:47.40\00:21:50.14
He didn't just pick one,
00:21:50.17\00:21:51.51
and only
demonstrate one love language.
00:21:51.54\00:21:54.04
He had all of them.
00:21:54.08\00:21:56.04
And so sometimes I
think we need to say
00:21:56.08\00:21:58.25
well, this is
mine and that's how I'm
00:21:58.28\00:21:59.61
and that's what I'm gonna using
00:21:59.65\00:22:00.98
I'm not gonna use anything else.
00:22:01.02\00:22:02.35
But Jesus is our
example. That's powerful.
00:22:02.38\00:22:03.72
And you received and
heard all the love languages
00:22:03.75\00:22:05.72
the gift from Mary,
the words from you know,
00:22:05.75\00:22:08.12
the lepers that He
healed and so forth.
00:22:08.16\00:22:10.59
And we have to be
careful with love languages
00:22:10.63\00:22:12.56
because sometimes
they become selfish.
00:22:12.59\00:22:15.03
And I believe that's
what you're saying, is it?
00:22:15.06\00:22:16.40
Yeah.
00:22:16.43\00:22:17.77
This is my love language
00:22:17.80\00:22:19.13
so this is what
I'm expecting to do,
00:22:19.17\00:22:20.50
and if you don't do it,
00:22:20.54\00:22:21.87
I'm not gonna do
anything for you.
00:22:21.90\00:22:23.24
Then you didn't
talk of my love language.
00:22:23.27\00:22:24.61
Yes, that's right.
00:22:24.64\00:22:25.97
That's not love.
00:22:26.01\00:22:27.34
With our listening
audience what love languages are
00:22:27.38\00:22:28.71
or maybe where they can, yes.
00:22:28.74\00:22:30.08
There's a book
written... Yeah, very good,
00:22:30.11\00:22:31.45
good book written by
man name Gary Chapman,
00:22:31.48\00:22:32.81
he's a Christian
00:22:32.85\00:22:34.18
and it's all grounded I
think in the book of principles,
00:22:34.22\00:22:35.55
and I think his
genius was he's trying to get
00:22:35.58\00:22:37.39
people to talk in their
partner's love language,
00:22:37.42\00:22:40.09
you know, to get
out of themselves
00:22:40.12\00:22:41.46
and like figure out
00:22:41.49\00:22:42.82
what works with
their partner rather than,
00:22:42.86\00:22:44.19
oh, I know my love languages,
00:22:44.23\00:22:45.73
so you got to
talk in my language,
00:22:45.76\00:22:47.66
I don't think that's
what he was going forth,
00:22:47.70\00:22:49.03
I think he's
going for the opposite,
00:22:49.06\00:22:50.40
but of course we
make everything selfish.
00:22:50.43\00:22:52.10
As human beings we have
a tendency to be selfish.
00:22:52.13\00:22:53.84
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:22:53.87\00:22:55.64
So excellent, excellent, guys,
00:22:55.67\00:22:57.77
any other ideas
about what you would do
00:22:57.81\00:22:59.71
with this couple to get
them off the square one,
00:22:59.74\00:23:01.88
I mean, they seem to
be just kind of stuck.
00:23:01.91\00:23:03.58
It's not terrible,
00:23:03.61\00:23:04.95
there is not
severe abuse going on,
00:23:04.98\00:23:06.85
but there is just a
breakdown of communication.
00:23:06.88\00:23:08.82
Do you think that learning
00:23:08.85\00:23:10.19
how to
communicate their feelings
00:23:10.22\00:23:12.19
would make a difference?
00:23:12.22\00:23:13.99
There was a suggestion given by,
00:23:14.02\00:23:16.02
I don't actually
remember who it was
00:23:16.06\00:23:17.89
but I thought it was amazing.
00:23:17.93\00:23:19.76
The suggestion was to
00:23:19.79\00:23:21.63
when you sit down
have a conversation,
00:23:21.66\00:23:23.83
hear what the person has to say,
00:23:23.87\00:23:26.30
and simply say
thank you afterward
00:23:26.33\00:23:28.84
and you cannot comment
for the next 20 minutes
00:23:28.87\00:23:32.14
and I realty like that,
00:23:32.17\00:23:33.51
because our
first initial reaction
00:23:33.54\00:23:35.04
when we hear what the
other person wants are,
00:23:35.08\00:23:37.65
as in this case.
00:23:37.68\00:23:39.71
And they're telling
each other what they want
00:23:39.75\00:23:41.32
and other person is
interpreting as criticism.
00:23:41.35\00:23:43.79
Out first usually
00:23:43.82\00:23:45.45
what we do is we
defend ourselves.
00:23:45.49\00:23:47.19
Defend, yeah. We
justify ourselves.
00:23:47.22\00:23:48.76
So if we wait 20 minutes,
00:23:48.79\00:23:50.23
and we're not allowed to respond
00:23:50.26\00:23:51.59
then we have to take
time to think about it.
00:23:51.63\00:23:53.90
And so I think that's powerful.
00:23:53.93\00:23:55.86
That is powerful, that's good.
00:23:55.90\00:23:57.23
You know, the Bible
tells us to be quick too.
00:23:57.27\00:23:58.97
Hear.
00:23:59.00\00:24:00.34
And slow to...
00:24:00.37\00:24:01.70
Speak. Speak.
00:24:01.74\00:24:03.07
And slow to
wrath. And slow to wrath.
00:24:03.10\00:24:04.44
We're gonna be touching on
that in the conflict program.
00:24:04.47\00:24:08.04
But in communication we
had to be quick to do what?
00:24:08.08\00:24:10.48
Listen. Listen.
00:24:10.51\00:24:11.95
And most the biggest lack
00:24:11.98\00:24:13.78
in communication
is listening skills.
00:24:13.82\00:24:15.95
Listening is an art that
most of us are not schooled in.
00:24:15.98\00:24:20.06
And one thing that we
can bring to the couple
00:24:20.09\00:24:21.99
or the
individuals in the room is
00:24:22.02\00:24:24.13
and you bought up earlier
00:24:24.16\00:24:25.49
have them practice
right in front of you.
00:24:25.53\00:24:28.16
And have them
say, you know, you say,
00:24:28.20\00:24:29.60
okay listen now tell me
what did you hear them say?
00:24:29.63\00:24:32.13
Let me tell you vice versa.
00:24:32.17\00:24:33.50
I've had couples that when that
has happened they would say,
00:24:33.54\00:24:35.80
you understood
what I was saying?
00:24:35.84\00:24:37.27
Yeah, that was
amazing, I love that.
00:24:37.31\00:24:39.47
And so they
practice, practice, practice,
00:24:39.51\00:24:41.24
then take it home
and practice, go ahead.
00:24:41.28\00:24:42.61
I don't know about you
David but you're a man,
00:24:42.64\00:24:43.98
I'm a man and I
wasn't brought up
00:24:44.01\00:24:45.78
to be expressing my emotions.
00:24:45.81\00:24:47.28
I'm not saying this, they are.
00:24:47.32\00:24:48.68
My first professor
in graduate school,
00:24:48.72\00:24:51.49
my first professor said
00:24:51.52\00:24:53.05
I want you to start
journaling your emotions
00:24:53.09\00:24:55.76
because you're not used to this
00:24:55.79\00:24:57.13
because you have
to start practicing
00:24:57.16\00:24:58.49
this with your clients,
00:24:58.53\00:25:00.00
so the more that we can model
00:25:00.03\00:25:01.86
expressing our own
emotions in the session.
00:25:01.90\00:25:04.97
Emotional awareness, yeah.
00:25:05.00\00:25:06.80
The better they're gonna catch
that instead of teaching it.
00:25:06.84\00:25:09.54
And that's true for men overall.
00:25:09.57\00:25:11.64
Women like details
00:25:11.67\00:25:13.48
and man just kind
of one word responses,
00:25:13.51\00:25:15.81
you ask me how my day was?
00:25:15.84\00:25:17.18
Good.
00:25:17.21\00:25:18.55
Yes, as though.
00:25:18.58\00:25:19.91
I'm gonna, I'm gonna...
00:25:19.95\00:25:21.28
I have to recap really quick.
00:25:21.32\00:25:22.65
Yes, no but usually like
a woman will with details.
00:25:22.68\00:25:24.02
Got to recap
this real quick now.
00:25:24.05\00:25:25.39
Yeah, he feels urgent
about this, so go ahead.
00:25:25.42\00:25:28.02
Yeah.
00:25:28.06\00:25:29.39
So we're talking about the
body language is so critical,
00:25:29.42\00:25:31.96
we have to be aware that
00:25:31.99\00:25:33.33
there is a high
percentage of body language
00:25:33.36\00:25:34.70
in our communication.
00:25:34.73\00:25:36.50
We need to rebate identifying
and expressing our emotions.
00:25:36.53\00:25:39.93
And this is something
that we need to be learning,
00:25:39.97\00:25:42.54
and we can teach
this in counseling.
00:25:42.57\00:25:44.31
But listener speaker
technique is a wonderful way,
00:25:44.34\00:25:49.21
assume positive
intent is very scriptural.
00:25:49.24\00:25:53.38
We always have to assume
00:25:53.42\00:25:54.88
that our partner loves
us underneath of it all.
00:25:54.92\00:25:57.75
Stinking thinking
pops up all over the place.
00:25:57.79\00:25:59.99
What is stinking thinking?
00:26:00.02\00:26:01.36
It is distorted thinking.
00:26:01.39\00:26:02.72
You've talked
about the judgments
00:26:02.76\00:26:04.33
that we have inside our heads,
00:26:04.36\00:26:06.19
the things that we
need to be identifying,
00:26:06.23\00:26:09.06
as we're
listening to our partners.
00:26:09.10\00:26:11.43
Let's see you've talked about
00:26:11.47\00:26:13.50
being filled up
with Christ in love.
00:26:13.54\00:26:15.57
This is so critical,
00:26:15.60\00:26:16.94
using scripture even
before we start to communicate
00:26:16.97\00:26:19.01
with another can
soften our hearts.
00:26:19.04\00:26:21.81
Challenging our
assumptions all along the way,
00:26:21.84\00:26:24.88
and all of these things can
be flushed out in counseling.
00:26:24.91\00:26:27.62
We need to be educating folks
00:26:27.65\00:26:29.62
that the fact
that God can help us,
00:26:29.65\00:26:31.45
He can finish what He
has started this perfect work
00:26:31.49\00:26:34.09
that He is doing in us.
00:26:34.12\00:26:35.46
Sometimes we lose hope in that
in the heat of the conflict.
00:26:35.49\00:26:39.23
We have to know what
their willingness is to change.
00:26:39.26\00:26:41.93
We have to get that
on a scale sometimes,
00:26:41.96\00:26:45.13
where is your willingness
to change in like how you said
00:26:45.17\00:26:48.24
earlier, David,
that we can pump that
00:26:48.27\00:26:50.11
how can we get that from
a two to three or to four,
00:26:50.14\00:26:52.57
session by session.
00:26:52.61\00:26:54.18
I mention writing ten
things down for the next years.
00:26:54.21\00:26:56.98
Get them on common ground.
00:26:57.01\00:26:58.35
Common ground.
00:26:58.38\00:26:59.81
These are wonderful techniques.
00:26:59.85\00:27:01.28
Love Languages by Gary
Chapman is an excellent book.
00:27:01.32\00:27:04.39
He has a new book
out called the family
00:27:04.42\00:27:07.12
that you've
always wanted to have
00:27:07.16\00:27:08.82
highly
recommended, beautiful book.
00:27:08.86\00:27:10.89
It's great, it's great.
00:27:10.93\00:27:12.26
So. Praise God.
00:27:12.29\00:27:13.63
Okay, well, the wise man said,
00:27:13.66\00:27:17.40
that a wise man's
heart guides his mouth
00:27:17.43\00:27:20.57
and his lips
promote instruction.
00:27:20.60\00:27:23.30
We've been talking
about good listening
00:27:23.34\00:27:24.97
which is essential
to good communication,
00:27:25.01\00:27:27.31
but we also we
want to check our words
00:27:27.34\00:27:29.51
and make sure that
we're speaking words
00:27:29.54\00:27:31.88
that saver of life unto life
rather than death unto death.
00:27:31.91\00:27:35.95
So I hope you've
learned something about
00:27:35.98\00:27:38.12
how to be a great communicator.
00:27:38.15\00:27:40.56
Come back to future programs
00:27:40.59\00:27:42.02
'cause we're
gonna cover more ground,
00:27:42.06\00:27:43.56
we're gonna cover
conflict resolution,
00:27:43.59\00:27:45.09
how to handle anger.
00:27:45.13\00:27:46.73
We love having you
come to our program,
00:27:46.76\00:27:48.80
we're dedicated to
helping you better understand
00:27:48.83\00:27:51.40
how to solve some of the most
difficult situations in life,
00:27:51.43\00:27:54.97
through the
grace of Jesus Christ
00:27:55.00\00:27:56.67
who is always willing to heal
and always willing to bless.
00:27:56.71\00:27:59.61