Welcome to A
Multitude of Counselors.
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My name is
Jennifer Jill Schwirzer
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and I am so
thankful that you chose
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to tune in today to our program.
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We devote this
program to raising awareness
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about mental
health and we also like
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to provide viable
practical solutions
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as well as
deeply spiritual answers
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for some of life's
most difficult questions,
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those that pertain to emotional
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and behavioral and
psychological issues.
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So today, I'm
going to first introduce
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my treatment team.
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I wanna welcome each one of you,
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joining us today for this show.
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First of all, we
have Paul Coneff.
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He's from Texas.
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Paul is a marriage
and family therapist.
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He has a ministry, he
operates a ministry called,
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"Straight to the Heart."
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It's a prayer and
discipleship ministry
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and he likes to
take a special method
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that he's developed,
that leads people to the Cross
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and he likes to take that method
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and help people cope with
loss, suffering, addiction,
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abuse recovery and so forth.
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Marvelous program, so
glad to have you here, Paul.
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Then there's
Christina Cecotto from Georgia.
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She works at
Wildwood Lifestyle Center.
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She is a licensed
Masters in Social Work
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and she likes to
help people with anxiety
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and disorders and phobias,
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and we're so glad
that you're here to offer
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what you have to offer,
Christina, which is so special.
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And we also wanna
welcome Shelley Wiggins.
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My friend and
colleague, she's from Michigan,
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runs a ministry /
counseling practice called,
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"Driftwood Counseling."
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And Shelley likes to
work with people on issues
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such as addiction,
anxiety and abuse recovery,
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where she uses
not only traditional
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counseling / talk therapy
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but she uses Equine
therapy with horses,
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which is very
unique and very special.
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And you are very
unique and special person
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and I'm glad to have you here.
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And I also wanna welcome
my co-host, Rob Davidson.
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Rob is from the DC area
and he does counseling with me
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in ABIDE Counseling Network
and he has a private practice
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and he likes to
help all kinds of people
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with all kinds of things
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including coaching
men in servant leadership,
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biblical integrity
and that kind of thing
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and that's such a great
need that we have today,
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because the world is going crazy
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and we need more men
that are servant leaders
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in a true sense of the word.
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Today, we're going
to be talking about OCD
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or Obsessive
Compulsive Disorder.
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I don't know if any of
you had that experience
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with obsessive
compulsive disorder
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but let me just
give symbolic points.
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First of all, let's define OCD.
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OCD is a disorder characterized
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by intrusive
unreasonable thoughts
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which provoke anxiety
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and compulsions used
to control the anxiety,
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so let's look at the
symptoms of OCD again.
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Intrusive, unwanted thoughts,
generally not perceived
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as real or true
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and those are called obsessions.
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In other words, the
person has these thoughts,
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kind of appear in
their mind and in general,
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they don't perceive
those thoughts as true
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and they don't
like those thoughts
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and they don't
want those thoughts
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but they just seem
to come in, unbended.
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It's really very sad.
Those are called obsessions.
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And then often, not always
but often the person responds
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to those obsessions
with repeated behaviors
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engaged in for the
purpose of alleviating anxiety
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and those are
called compulsions.
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So OCD is an
anxiety related disorder
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involving these
invasive thoughts
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that raise the anxiety level
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and then the person typically
acts out with compulsions
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that temporarily
lower the anxiety level.
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However, there's a
principle in psychology
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and that is that the
more we avoid something,
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the more afraid we
become of that thing.
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And so the compulsions
are an avoidance behavior
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where people are actually afraid
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of the thoughts themselves
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and engaging the compulsions
to lower the anxiety level
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about the thoughts,
but the more they avoid,
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the more the anxiety takes
hold and so OCD compulsions
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don't really work to alleviate
the anxiety at long term.
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So some of the common themes
we see in OCD are things like
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fear of contamination,
constant checking or counting
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and fear of
harming or being harmed,
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so classic presentation
of OCD is hand washing,
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out of fear of contamination
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and sometimes
people wash their hands
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until they are raw and red
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and it can be a very sad
thing, very sad and deep.
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What about the
prevalence of OCD?
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World wide life time
prevalence rates at about 1-2%,
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that's quite high actually.
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And it's among the top
twenty causes of disability.
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What about the cause of OCD?
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Of course, that concoction
of genetics and environment,
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raised with a
certain genetic mix,
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I mean, you're born
with a certain genetic mix
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and then you're raised
in a certain environment,
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sometimes those
things can work together
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to produce a
disability but I think often OCD
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is also
triggered by a life event.
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I would say that, the trauma
or something very disturbing
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can kind of
trigger an episode of OCD.
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The prognosis for OCD
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as with all our
prognosis, is what?
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Good. Good.
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Because Jesus heals
and we wanna give you
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some practical steps
that will help assist
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in that recovery process.
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The treatments are many,
lifestyle changes can help
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because lifestyle changes
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can may bring
chemistry more healthy
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and that can help a word off
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or take the edge
off many disorders.
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Sometimes
medication is necessary,
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we're chatting about medication,
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sometimes people
just need medication.
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What would you guys say?
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In what cases is
medication really called for?
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I think in the
situation of suicide ideation.
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Yeah.
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If people are
having compulsive thoughts
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that are leading to plans
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that potentially
could lead to actions
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or they have the means,
they have, you know, guns
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or, you know, they've
been gathering the tools,
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so to speak.
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It's a very dangerous
life threatening situation.
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Yeah, I think
that's probably are...
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Medications have side effects
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and they don't do the whole job.
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We were talking a bit
ago, about the fact that
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often people will just
take the medication thing
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and this is the magic
pill and I'm gonna be fine
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but what we need to do
is couple that medication
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with treatment, with counseling
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and maybe other
forms of treatment
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to help balance that out
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and often people will be able
to get off of their medication,
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a lot of these medications
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really work best
in the short term.
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To help a person cope,
so if a person is extremely,
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really down for
the count suicidal
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or sometimes people
just have brain disease
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and they really can't function.
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The brain is a physical organ,
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just like any
other organ in the body.
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And there can be
imbalances and deficiencies,
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just in brain chemistry.
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Postpartum depression. Right.
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Okay.
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You know, it can be another one
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and if they're not
getting a lot of sleep
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because they're wound up
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and their brains
going, going, going.
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They may need to
medicate him for a while
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before they'll often, you
know, when they check them in,
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if they have to put
him in a psychiatric ward
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or, you know, in-patient
for seven to ten days,
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they're gonna
give him medication,
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just so they can rest,
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so that when they
begin reasoning with him,
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counseling and they can
talk to a person at rationale,
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'cause the brain is worn out.
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Right. That's right.
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You can't reason with them,
not because they don't want to
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but they're not able to.
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When people will
say, "Well, you know,
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the whole medical
industry's all about money
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and there's all this
corruption and that may be true
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but God also
gave wisdom to people,
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to be able to
come up with these ways
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in which we could cope,
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sometimes pass the
point of suicidal ideations,
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so the person
lives into the future
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and let's thank God for
that and use it appropriately.
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I don't know anybody
in the counseling field
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that never, never
we'd consider medication,
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I think most of us
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have a certain
amount of caution toward it
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and we wanna make sure
the person is a replacing,
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learning good coping
mechanisms with medication.
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So the classic treatment
for OCD is what we call,
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Exposure and
Response Prevention.
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Exposure and response prevention
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is simply having that
person face this trigger,
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be it germs or
the iron is still on
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or whatever it
is and not respond
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with the compulsions
and often if they can learn
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how to refrain
from that compulsion,
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they realize, "Hey, this
isn't gonna do the damage to me
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that I thought it would."
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These racing thoughts about
how afraid I am at these germs,
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they don't kill
me, it's uncomfortable,
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I don't like it
but I can get passed
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and I eventually do calm down.
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Right, so it's correcting
the belief system once again.
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That's why I have been
talking about as well, yeah.
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Okay.
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And then also, of course,
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developing the
appropriate response.
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How do they want to respond to,
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instead of how they
have been responding to it.
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And now we're having a good base
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of those positive coping
skills before they're out.
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They go out and are
exposed to that challenge
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so that they can
overcome it and continue to.
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Now, what did you
say a little while ago,
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there's a
certain patient you had,
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realize that she did not
have to obey her emotions
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and when she realize,
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she could use
reason instead of emotions.
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That was sort of the
turning point for her.
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Right, many times, I find that,
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that is a huge turning point
for patients, they realize that
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their emotions don't have to be,
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sometimes entirely
trusted and also that
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they don't have to
allow their emotions
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to control their lives.
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And so once they realize,
they can actually decide
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how they want to feel,
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they can decide
what they want to think,
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that is a huge
turning point for many people.
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It's empowering.
00:10:03.40\00:10:04.73
Yeah, and I know for me,
like getting past depression
00:10:04.77\00:10:07.54
and some of the
stuff I've dealt with,
00:10:07.57\00:10:08.90
I had to realize
that I was engaging
00:10:08.94\00:10:11.17
an emotional reasoning
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where I thought the emotions
were evidence of something
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and I had to learn
how to take a step back
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for my emotions and say,
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the emotions
themselves are not evidence.
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I have to look
to external evidence
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to know what's true.
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Right, right.
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Evidences are very, very huge
00:10:24.95\00:10:26.29
and with anxiety,
as well depression,
00:10:26.32\00:10:30.46
many of the
mental health issues.
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That's great.
00:10:31.86\00:10:33.19
So what do you
think is going on?
00:10:33.23\00:10:34.56
You're kind of the
resident pastor, Paul,
00:10:34.60\00:10:36.26
so what do you think
is going on with OCD,
00:10:36.30\00:10:38.70
on a spiritual level?
00:10:38.73\00:10:40.94
I'm sorry to spring that on you,
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but you always seem
to have million of those.
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I'm shocked.
00:10:43.84\00:10:46.61
You know, Christina
already mentioned the thoughts
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because we know, "As a man
thinks in his heart, so is he."
00:10:49.08\00:10:51.55
So we have these
thoughts raising,
00:10:51.58\00:10:52.91
they build on each other,
00:10:52.95\00:10:54.28
they'd come up
four lane and free way.
00:10:54.32\00:10:55.98
And they just take as,
it's like a train, you know,
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run away train
but I also believe
00:10:58.39\00:10:59.99
that some of
the thoughts our own
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but, you know, Jesus said
Satan is the father of lies.
00:11:01.42\00:11:03.89
So there can be
spiritual warfare,
00:11:03.93\00:11:05.53
in the sense that we're getting
hammered from the outside,
00:11:05.56\00:11:08.30
that these thoughts
are coming but, I mean,
00:11:08.33\00:11:10.73
a lot of this is we're
trying to protect ourselves
00:11:10.77\00:11:12.77
from facing something, right?
00:11:12.80\00:11:15.37
This is really
diversionary tactic.
00:11:15.40\00:11:16.94
I'm gonna wash my hands
10 times, 20 times a day
00:11:16.97\00:11:21.18
to avoid dealing with something.
00:11:21.21\00:11:22.68
So for me, I
wanna know, you know,
00:11:22.71\00:11:24.98
what is it that
they would really like
00:11:25.01\00:11:26.35
for their life to be like?
00:11:26.38\00:11:27.72
I mean, what is
their preferred future,
00:11:27.75\00:11:29.08
so to speak and what
is keeping them from that?
00:11:29.12\00:11:31.89
Because if they can learn
to face what they're afraid of,
00:11:31.92\00:11:34.59
like you were saying
and deal with those thoughts
00:11:34.62\00:11:37.99
and feelings, you know,
00:11:38.03\00:11:39.93
it can be a big
difference in your life.
00:11:39.96\00:11:42.76
For example, you know,
00:11:42.80\00:11:44.13
if we're gonna talk
about helping them understand
00:11:44.17\00:11:46.60
that their feelings and thoughts
00:11:46.63\00:11:47.97
may not be
consistent with reality,
00:11:48.00\00:11:50.14
where does that come from?
00:11:50.17\00:11:51.77
And, you know, did
Satan attack Jesus to...
00:11:51.81\00:11:54.81
Bible says, He was
tempted like us in every way,
00:11:54.84\00:11:57.25
suffered being tempted,
00:11:57.28\00:11:59.18
which means there
were real temptations.
00:11:59.21\00:12:00.68
I mean, he's being
hammered throughout his life
00:12:00.72\00:12:02.88
especially to get some recovery.
00:12:02.92\00:12:04.39
So if we can help them begin
to see not only or not alone,
00:12:04.42\00:12:08.06
but they've got,
Jesus is going through it,
00:12:08.09\00:12:10.23
maybe as they begin heal,
00:12:10.26\00:12:12.66
maybe God can
retransform in their minds
00:12:12.69\00:12:15.13
and thoughts and they
can see a bigger picture.
00:12:15.16\00:12:17.27
Do you think also
there's an element
00:12:17.30\00:12:19.30
of depending on self,
00:12:19.33\00:12:20.97
apart from God
to regulate emotion
00:12:21.00\00:12:23.30
and part of the
battle is a person learning
00:12:23.34\00:12:25.97
how to depend on God to
regulate their emotions,
00:12:26.01\00:12:29.14
in other words, OCD
is an effort for me,
00:12:29.18\00:12:32.01
to make my emotions positive
00:12:32.05\00:12:33.98
all the time using
these rituals and so forth.
00:12:34.02\00:12:36.79
Don't you think
there's a pendency issue
00:12:36.82\00:12:38.19
there and you have to
kind of accept negative emotion
00:12:38.22\00:12:41.76
and then give it over to God
00:12:41.79\00:12:43.29
and let Him take
it from that point.
00:12:43.32\00:12:45.03
I have a very good discussion
00:12:45.06\00:12:46.43
because we're trying to do
something in our own strength
00:12:46.46\00:12:48.80
to solve a problem.
00:12:48.83\00:12:50.17
And like you said before,
00:12:50.20\00:12:51.70
when we're trying to
solve our own problems
00:12:51.73\00:12:53.17
at our own strength, guess what?
00:12:53.20\00:12:54.94
I make it worse. Worse, exactly.
00:12:54.97\00:12:56.74
And I guess...
00:12:56.77\00:12:58.11
I've tried to do many
things in my own strength
00:12:58.14\00:12:59.71
and it's never worked out.
00:12:59.74\00:13:01.08
You know, I was
talking to Rob really,
00:13:01.11\00:13:02.44
I've tried to help
God out more than once
00:13:02.48\00:13:04.21
and it never works.
00:13:04.25\00:13:05.58
Now look at the classical
example of that, Abraham,
00:13:05.61\00:13:08.22
who thought, "Well, you
know, God isn't coming through
00:13:08.25\00:13:09.92
on His promise to give me a son,
00:13:09.95\00:13:11.95
so I'll just, you know,
I'll do God's will, man's way.
00:13:11.99\00:13:14.46
I'll fix this thing
that God can't seem to fix."
00:13:14.49\00:13:17.43
And then he got
himself in to all that trouble
00:13:17.46\00:13:19.59
and you're so right
that the trend is for us
00:13:19.63\00:13:22.56
to try to solve our problems
in our own human strength,
00:13:22.60\00:13:27.00
apart from God.
00:13:27.04\00:13:28.37
It's not that we
shouldn't use our will,
00:13:28.40\00:13:30.01
it's that we use
our will apart from God
00:13:30.04\00:13:31.67
and that's the problem.
00:13:31.71\00:13:33.04
And when we do that or
really effectively living
00:13:33.07\00:13:35.31
under the Old Covenant,
00:13:35.34\00:13:36.81
all that thou said we will do
00:13:36.85\00:13:38.18
our whatever I need to do
00:13:38.21\00:13:39.55
in terms of regulating
my emotions, I will do.
00:13:39.58\00:13:41.85
Yes, scripture says,
00:13:41.88\00:13:43.22
"I can do all
things through Christ,
00:13:43.25\00:13:46.35
through Christ
who strengthens me."
00:13:46.39\00:13:48.12
So I need to turn to Him
and have Him help me navigate,
00:13:48.16\00:13:51.96
face what I need to face,
00:13:51.99\00:13:53.63
instead of trying
to comfort myself,
00:13:53.66\00:13:55.13
distract myself,
create that sense of safety
00:13:55.16\00:13:57.97
or security in my own strength.
00:13:58.00\00:14:00.60
And to me freedom is continued.
00:14:00.64\00:14:02.07
To the degree I'm
depending on Christ, I'm free.
00:14:02.10\00:14:04.61
To the degree I'm
depending on myself
00:14:04.64\00:14:06.14
and I'm developing pattern,
just to have protection,
00:14:06.17\00:14:08.38
I'm moving away from freedom.
00:14:08.41\00:14:09.78
Amen. Can I just
add to that, Paul?
00:14:09.81\00:14:13.28
When we're talking about
moving towards our fears,
00:14:13.31\00:14:16.08
step by step, we
have to be very careful
00:14:16.12\00:14:18.45
to move toward our fears
with Christ, as you're saying.
00:14:18.49\00:14:20.79
Exactly. Amen.
00:14:20.82\00:14:22.16
And He's walking
step by step towards this
00:14:22.19\00:14:23.93
and sometimes as we
see that Footprints poster
00:14:23.96\00:14:27.36
or you'll see that one
set of footprints on the sand,
00:14:27.40\00:14:29.83
it's sometimes Jesus
is actually carrying us,
00:14:29.86\00:14:32.03
even closer to our fears.
00:14:32.07\00:14:33.94
But we've mentioned too
before hypnosis is not good
00:14:33.97\00:14:36.47
because one of the
reasons I don't like hypnosis
00:14:36.50\00:14:38.31
is it bypasses your human will.
00:14:38.34\00:14:39.97
That's right.
00:14:40.01\00:14:41.34
And then you could
open the door to them
00:14:41.38\00:14:42.71
facing traumas,
they're not ready to face.
00:14:42.74\00:14:44.65
So if we're walking
there, like Rob said,
00:14:44.68\00:14:46.35
the point you're
making is very good.
00:14:46.38\00:14:47.72
If you're walking with
them and it may seem slow
00:14:47.75\00:14:50.85
from a human perspective
00:14:50.89\00:14:52.22
but if we're walking
with Him, with Jesus,
00:14:52.25\00:14:53.96
it may take a little
while but here is the thing,
00:14:53.99\00:14:55.96
Jesus is not going
to retraumatize him
00:14:55.99\00:14:58.09
and moving
faster than they can go.
00:14:58.13\00:14:59.46
That's right.
00:14:59.49\00:15:00.83
When you try and, you know,
00:15:00.86\00:15:02.20
manufacture
things like hypnosis,
00:15:02.23\00:15:04.37
you'd have to get
past that, to move along,
00:15:04.40\00:15:07.17
you can open the door and
they can be really retraumatized
00:15:07.20\00:15:10.34
and all of the sudden,
00:15:10.37\00:15:11.71
now this pain they've
been avoiding is there
00:15:11.74\00:15:13.34
and it can be
totally overwhelming to them.
00:15:13.38\00:15:15.74
I think God gave
us an unconscious mind
00:15:15.78\00:15:17.91
for a reason in
the Garden of Eden
00:15:17.95\00:15:19.78
because we couldn't face
all of our stuff, all at once.
00:15:19.81\00:15:22.45
We had to learn
to abide in Christ
00:15:22.48\00:15:23.89
and trust in His righteousness
00:15:23.92\00:15:25.25
before we could face it
00:15:25.29\00:15:26.62
and that's the
sanctification process.
00:15:26.65\00:15:28.59
And so these
methods that unnaturally,
00:15:28.62\00:15:31.69
unleash the
unconscious mind, like you said,
00:15:31.73\00:15:33.80
can traumatize people, I
think of psychoactive drugs.
00:15:33.83\00:15:37.37
And when I was a
teenager in high school,
00:15:37.40\00:15:39.73
everybody's doing LSD.
00:15:39.77\00:15:41.40
And I think LSD
just opened the gates
00:15:41.44\00:15:43.51
of the unconscious mind
00:15:43.54\00:15:45.41
and would come flooding
into people's conscious mind
00:15:45.44\00:15:47.84
and they would experience
what they call "The bad trip"
00:15:47.88\00:15:50.01
and some of them
never recovered from it.
00:15:50.05\00:15:52.28
That's really scary, so I think
00:15:52.31\00:15:54.12
what you're
kind of zeroing in on
00:15:54.15\00:15:56.08
is the need for
patience in working with people
00:15:56.12\00:15:59.39
and I think
some of these methods
00:15:59.42\00:16:00.76
are born of really in-patients.
00:16:00.79\00:16:02.12
You know, again to biggy pattern
00:16:02.16\00:16:03.83
what Rob was saying, we
need to honor the process
00:16:03.86\00:16:07.10
and the speed at
where's the person is going
00:16:07.13\00:16:08.46
and not hurry it.
00:16:08.50\00:16:09.83
Exactly. Yeah.
00:16:09.86\00:16:11.20
It's not my job to get somebody
from point A to point B,
00:16:11.23\00:16:13.57
it s my job to walk
with them in that journey.
00:16:13.60\00:16:17.64
So I'm not turning
the person into an agenda
00:16:17.67\00:16:20.44
where I've got a few or better
as a therapist or a pastor
00:16:20.48\00:16:23.28
because I'm moving them along.
00:16:23.31\00:16:24.65
That's awesome.
00:16:24.68\00:16:26.01
What I've noticed...
00:16:26.05\00:16:27.38
Oh, go on. Sorry.
00:16:27.42\00:16:28.75
What I've noticed is
that patients tend to move
00:16:28.78\00:16:30.65
quicker toward healing
00:16:30.69\00:16:32.45
when they allow
God in the process
00:16:32.49\00:16:35.12
and the more attuned
they are to His voice,
00:16:35.16\00:16:37.26
actually the quicker
they are able to recover.
00:16:37.29\00:16:41.93
Are you very ready get
into the presenting problem
00:16:41.96\00:16:44.87
or do wanna throw in a
comment before he jumps in.
00:16:44.90\00:16:47.04
Oh, I'll add it
later if it fits.
00:16:47.07\00:16:48.97
Okay, is that all
right? Oh, absolutely.
00:16:49.00\00:16:50.87
We wanna give you a
chance to shine, girl.
00:16:50.91\00:16:52.57
No, no. We're good.
00:16:52.61\00:16:53.94
All right.
00:16:53.98\00:16:55.31
All right, the
presenting problem
00:16:55.34\00:16:56.68
is an African American William,
00:16:56.71\00:16:58.75
is a high school senior
from upper middle class family
00:16:58.78\00:17:02.02
presenting with symptoms
of what he believes is OCD.
00:17:02.05\00:17:05.52
His girlfriend broke up with him
00:17:05.55\00:17:07.16
because he was completely
obsessed with body building
00:17:07.19\00:17:10.13
and had no time for her
or inclination to engage
00:17:10.16\00:17:13.19
in any kind of
normal relationship.
00:17:13.23\00:17:15.53
With her gone,
00:17:15.56\00:17:16.90
he doubts the value
of his perfect biceps,
00:17:16.93\00:17:18.97
his perfect
triceps and perfect quads.
00:17:19.00\00:17:21.44
Yet cannot seem to let
himself be a normal person.
00:17:21.47\00:17:24.57
The psychiatrist
prescribed an SSRI drug
00:17:24.61\00:17:27.51
and can you explain that?
00:17:27.54\00:17:28.88
SSRI drugs.
00:17:28.91\00:17:30.25
Selective Serotonin
Reuptake Inhibitor drug
00:17:30.28\00:17:32.75
which allows more serotonin
to remain in the synaptic gap
00:17:32.78\00:17:38.25
which basically
raises the level of the mood
00:17:38.29\00:17:40.59
elevating
serotonin in the brain,
00:17:40.62\00:17:41.96
so people feel better.
00:17:41.99\00:17:43.32
Go ahead.
00:17:43.36\00:17:44.69
Okay, so the
psychiatrist prescribed it
00:17:44.73\00:17:46.06
but it did little good, a
few weeks into counseling,
00:17:46.09\00:17:48.53
the psychiatrist
prescribed Vyvanse for ADD.
00:17:48.56\00:17:51.93
And it did
revolutionized William's life.
00:17:51.97\00:17:54.27
He said he could focus
for the first time in years
00:17:54.30\00:17:56.91
and was starting to actually
00:17:56.94\00:17:58.27
be able to have
conversations with people.
00:17:58.31\00:18:00.94
So what was
going on with William?
00:18:00.98\00:18:02.74
Interesting situation...
00:18:02.78\00:18:04.18
Now this could go into
another full hour discussion.
00:18:04.21\00:18:06.21
Yeah.
00:18:06.25\00:18:07.58
You know, as we look at
the chemistry of the brain.
00:18:07.62\00:18:09.92
Yeah.
00:18:09.95\00:18:11.29
And sometimes
people have a chemistry
00:18:11.32\00:18:13.66
that's just going so fast,
00:18:13.69\00:18:16.73
that they need a
stimulant to slow it down.
00:18:16.76\00:18:21.06
Isn't that weird? It is.
00:18:21.10\00:18:22.66
Isn't that weird that ADD
medication is a stimulant.
00:18:22.70\00:18:25.60
But apparently it
gets people there,
00:18:25.63\00:18:27.64
more circulation going
in the cerebral cortex,
00:18:27.67\00:18:29.94
the fore brain and
that helps them focus.
00:18:29.97\00:18:32.97
Right.
00:18:33.01\00:18:34.34
I think the most
important note on medication
00:18:34.38\00:18:36.44
whether your pro
medication or against medication
00:18:36.48\00:18:40.65
is to make sure you're
taking it in compliance
00:18:40.68\00:18:44.09
with how the
doctor has prescribed it
00:18:44.12\00:18:46.45
and to never go off with
these medications abruptly.
00:18:46.49\00:18:49.19
Yes. That's right.
00:18:49.22\00:18:50.66
I've lost a personal friend
00:18:50.69\00:18:52.69
to that when they
went off drastically
00:18:52.73\00:18:56.23
and you just don't
wanna play with it,
00:18:56.26\00:18:59.53
so if you're gonna
go the medication route,
00:18:59.57\00:19:02.20
be committed to it
and make only the changes
00:19:02.24\00:19:04.77
that you're
doctor is gonna make.
00:19:04.81\00:19:07.58
And never go off
abruptly 'cause, you know,
00:19:07.61\00:19:09.94
half life can kind of coast
00:19:09.98\00:19:11.98
and then all of a
sudden without you knowing it,
00:19:12.01\00:19:13.35
it can drop off.
00:19:13.38\00:19:14.72
That's right.
00:19:14.75\00:19:16.08
So, you know, go into the
medication issue educated.
00:19:16.12\00:19:19.52
So...
00:19:19.55\00:19:20.89
You be educated but also
00:19:20.92\00:19:22.26
none of us are
prescribing physicians,
00:19:22.29\00:19:24.13
so when we encourage our
client to go on medication,
00:19:24.16\00:19:26.73
we always work through
a prescribing physician,
00:19:26.76\00:19:29.73
either a psychiatrist
or a primary care doctor
00:19:29.76\00:19:33.07
and they
understand those medications,
00:19:33.10\00:19:34.94
and we encourage the client
00:19:34.97\00:19:36.91
to comply with what the
doctor is doing with them.
00:19:36.94\00:19:40.28
And we also encourage them,
00:19:40.31\00:19:42.04
if we're gonna encourage
them to try alterative methods,
00:19:42.08\00:19:45.41
we encourage them to run
that by their doctors will
00:19:45.45\00:19:48.32
because we can't prescribe herbs
00:19:48.35\00:19:50.52
and supplements and so forth.
00:19:50.55\00:19:51.89
But I have found with
OCD, I know a couple of people
00:19:51.92\00:19:54.52
that have
benefited from Inositol,
00:19:54.56\00:19:56.46
which is a B vitamin and
it's, you know, it's a powder,
00:19:56.49\00:20:00.53
they put it in a
liquid and they drink it
00:20:00.56\00:20:02.66
and they up the dose gradually
00:20:02.70\00:20:04.23
and it seems to
take the edge off
00:20:04.27\00:20:05.67
and I've had that happen,
00:20:05.70\00:20:07.04
a three times now with
people that I've been aware of.
00:20:07.07\00:20:10.84
I'm not prescribing and
I'm not saying to try it,
00:20:10.87\00:20:12.87
I'm just saying to consider it
and go to your doctor and ask,
00:20:12.91\00:20:15.74
if maybe this would be
an appropriate thing to try.
00:20:15.78\00:20:18.55
I have another loved
one who's using inositol
00:20:18.58\00:20:21.05
and St John's-wort, a
combination of those things,
00:20:21.08\00:20:23.72
it seems to take the
edge off and he does.
00:20:23.75\00:20:25.59
He can stay off of medication
00:20:25.62\00:20:27.39
which he wants to
do if he possibly can
00:20:27.42\00:20:29.42
'cause medications
do have side effects
00:20:29.46\00:20:30.86
and he doesn't
notice any side-effects
00:20:30.89\00:20:32.36
from those
supplements and herbs,
00:20:32.39\00:20:34.10
so, I think there's a
lot of things we could try
00:20:34.13\00:20:36.56
but I don't know if you've
run into this with medication,
00:20:36.60\00:20:39.07
it's different for each
person, not everything works.
00:20:39.10\00:20:40.87
Absolutely.
00:20:40.90\00:20:42.87
Think I've
learned a perfect science.
00:20:42.90\00:20:44.47
Seriously tried one serotonin,
00:20:44.51\00:20:46.47
it didn't work and
they tried another one
00:20:46.51\00:20:48.01
and all of the
sudden, he's able to focus,
00:20:48.04\00:20:49.64
concentrate and
start connect with people.
00:20:49.68\00:20:51.45
Amazing.
00:20:51.48\00:20:53.28
Lifestyle changes
also help with OCD and ADD,
00:20:53.31\00:20:57.75
so depending on
whatever they're experiencing,
00:20:57.79\00:20:59.99
that can also help
with developing self control
00:21:00.02\00:21:02.46
when it comes to thoughts.
00:21:02.49\00:21:04.03
So do you have any experience
00:21:04.06\00:21:06.16
in the Lifestyle
center with ADD, OCD?
00:21:06.19\00:21:09.33
Have you treated
anyone for those things?
00:21:09.36\00:21:11.93
Not so much ADD
but with OCD, yes.
00:21:11.97\00:21:15.24
But one of the primary...
00:21:15.27\00:21:17.61
PA's there,
00:21:17.64\00:21:19.24
had experience treating ADD
and he says lifestyle changes
00:21:19.27\00:21:22.61
is something that
really works with ADD.
00:21:22.64\00:21:24.48
With OCD,
00:21:24.51\00:21:25.85
I have found those
simple eight laws of health,
00:21:25.88\00:21:29.45
actually, help a lot with that.
00:21:29.48\00:21:31.62
And then I know a
thing is simply surrendering,
00:21:31.65\00:21:34.72
surrendering those thoughts,
00:21:34.76\00:21:36.09
deciding I'm not going to
worry about those things anymore
00:21:36.12\00:21:39.53
and allow and be
able to trust in God.
00:21:39.56\00:21:45.27
Christina, could you remind us
00:21:45.30\00:21:46.90
what those eight
laws are, really quickly?
00:21:46.94\00:21:48.27
Sure, yeah.
00:21:48.30\00:21:49.64
Nutrition, exercise, water,
00:21:49.67\00:21:53.11
sunshine, temperance, air,
00:21:53.14\00:21:57.18
trusting God, did I miss one?
00:21:57.21\00:21:58.55
Rest.
00:21:58.58\00:21:59.91
Rest, okay, and that
one's important, right?
00:21:59.95\00:22:01.28
Can't forget that one.
00:22:01.32\00:22:02.65
'Cause sleep deprivation can
send a person into psychosis.
00:22:02.68\00:22:04.02
It's just everything.
00:22:04.05\00:22:05.69
Yeah, crucial.
00:22:05.72\00:22:07.06
Everything goes wrong
with sleep deprivation,
00:22:07.09\00:22:08.42
so basically you're
talking about good body care
00:22:08.46\00:22:10.56
and good brain
care, 'cause guess what?
00:22:10.59\00:22:12.09
The brain is part
of what? The body.
00:22:12.13\00:22:14.46
So it's a physical
organ, we've got to care for it
00:22:14.50\00:22:16.70
like we care for
the rest of our body,
00:22:16.73\00:22:18.10
so whatever helps
the body be healthier
00:22:18.13\00:22:20.67
is gonna also help
the brain, that's awesome.
00:22:20.70\00:22:23.00
And sometimes just
those simple things
00:22:23.04\00:22:24.47
will turn a person around.
00:22:24.51\00:22:26.37
What do you guys do with
ADD apart from medication?
00:22:26.41\00:22:31.81
How do you help people with ADD
00:22:31.85\00:22:34.45
if they're not gonna
go the medical route?
00:22:34.48\00:22:36.99
Any input on that?
Okay. Relaxation exercises.
00:22:37.02\00:22:39.55
You know, to be
poignant and focus,
00:22:39.59\00:22:42.02
that at this time everyday,
00:22:42.06\00:22:44.43
I'm going to do
this specific thing,
00:22:44.46\00:22:47.16
whether it's
walking, stretching,
00:22:47.20\00:22:49.86
deep breathing, you know.
00:22:49.90\00:22:51.30
Prayer.
00:22:51.33\00:22:52.67
Prayer, journaling, but
something that's active,
00:22:52.70\00:22:56.84
something physically
active to kind of dissipate
00:22:56.87\00:22:59.44
that adrenaline that's
building up in the body.
00:22:59.47\00:23:02.21
Okay.
00:23:02.24\00:23:04.88
You know, like that analogy,
00:23:04.91\00:23:06.25
if you take the
trash out everyday,
00:23:06.28\00:23:07.95
by the end of the
week, it's not overflowing,
00:23:07.98\00:23:10.65
so make some
room for that reserve,
00:23:10.69\00:23:12.39
create some margin in your life.
00:23:12.42\00:23:14.69
What about the...
00:23:14.72\00:23:16.06
That's really helpful.
00:23:16.09\00:23:17.43
What about the
relationship between lifestyle
00:23:17.46\00:23:19.53
'cause I get the sense
00:23:19.56\00:23:21.36
that not everybody is
just like born with ADD,
00:23:21.40\00:23:23.67
that has ADD, I think that
it can kind of be cultivated
00:23:23.70\00:23:26.13
and a lot of it is situational
00:23:26.17\00:23:28.04
because we have
so many distractions
00:23:28.07\00:23:30.11
in the
environment, constant, you know,
00:23:30.14\00:23:32.21
the engagement thought
like electronics and so forth.
00:23:32.24\00:23:34.44
And sometimes, you know,
00:23:34.48\00:23:35.81
kids have that from the
moment they're born practically,
00:23:35.84\00:23:38.01
so people never really
stretch their attention span,
00:23:38.05\00:23:41.48
they never really
cultivate the ability to focus,
00:23:41.52\00:23:44.12
so what do you do
in cases like that
00:23:44.15\00:23:45.49
to help people develop focus?
00:23:45.52\00:23:48.09
Sometime in nature,
00:23:48.12\00:23:50.09
go sit out in the
field and journal or pray.
00:23:50.13\00:23:53.13
And that has a lot to do
with self disappointment,
00:23:53.16\00:23:55.06
you know, having
the person go out
00:23:55.10\00:23:58.00
and actually do
that and say, "Okay,
00:23:58.03\00:24:00.24
maybe you can only do
five minutes at first.
00:24:00.27\00:24:01.90
Well, let's see
if you can stretch it
00:24:01.94\00:24:03.27
for a little bit longer,
00:24:03.30\00:24:04.64
" and it's kind of
pushing those limits.
00:24:04.67\00:24:07.14
You know, scripture
says, "Be still and know God."
00:24:07.18\00:24:09.91
And all of our
electronic devices
00:24:09.94\00:24:11.31
can help us very well,
00:24:11.35\00:24:13.21
I mean, right now
satellite can send this program
00:24:13.25\00:24:16.08
all over the world,
there's lot of blessings
00:24:16.12\00:24:18.39
but it's also creative culture
00:24:18.42\00:24:20.66
where we're really disconnected,
00:24:20.69\00:24:22.32
where we don't know
how to stop and be still.
00:24:22.36\00:24:24.89
Right.
00:24:24.93\00:24:26.66
And we're going,
going, going the whole time
00:24:26.70\00:24:29.00
and then our brain
gets that pattern going
00:24:29.03\00:24:31.13
and it doesn't know how to rest.
00:24:31.17\00:24:32.90
We have a practice
that I do with my friends
00:24:32.93\00:24:35.34
when we go out to eat.
00:24:35.37\00:24:36.71
Everybody puts their cell
phone in the middle of the table
00:24:36.74\00:24:38.61
and the person that picks up
00:24:38.64\00:24:39.97
and looks has to
buy desert for everyone.
00:24:40.01\00:24:41.34
I love it.
00:24:41.38\00:24:42.71
Because, you
know, what we're doing
00:24:42.74\00:24:44.08
is like constantly
disengaging from one another,
00:24:44.11\00:24:45.65
instead of looking
in each other's eyes
00:24:45.68\00:24:47.18
and truly
communicating and bonding.
00:24:47.22\00:24:49.28
So I wonder
about the relationship
00:24:49.32\00:24:50.99
between bonding
and things like ADD,
00:24:51.02\00:24:54.09
if there was a
viable emotional connection
00:24:54.12\00:24:56.99
in the home perhaps,
00:24:57.03\00:24:59.06
then that person would
be more motivated to focus.
00:24:59.09\00:25:02.33
Just a thought but
you need to recap for us,
00:25:02.36\00:25:04.53
if you don't mind?
00:25:04.57\00:25:05.90
Sure.
00:25:05.93\00:25:07.27
Let's see what
we've gone over today.
00:25:07.30\00:25:11.71
We started talking about
medication that may be needed,
00:25:11.74\00:25:14.84
doesn't always have to
be, everybody is different.
00:25:14.88\00:25:17.11
But we've mentioned some
cases where it might be needed,
00:25:17.15\00:25:19.95
we're talking about
suicide, brain disease,
00:25:19.98\00:25:22.28
postpartum depression,
00:25:22.32\00:25:23.79
we're talking about
coming back into balance.
00:25:23.82\00:25:26.49
Medication doesn't have to
be for the rest of our lives.
00:25:26.52\00:25:28.82
But we also talked,
in some cases perhaps so,
00:25:28.86\00:25:31.79
but we also talked
about the need for,
00:25:31.83\00:25:33.63
if you're gonna have medication,
00:25:33.66\00:25:35.00
make sure we have some
good therapy going on too,
00:25:35.03\00:25:37.17
at the same time.
00:25:37.20\00:25:38.53
It's not just
all about medication.
00:25:38.57\00:25:41.47
Exposure and what was the other?
00:25:41.50\00:25:43.04
Response prevention.
00:25:43.07\00:25:44.41
Response prevention, it is
the treatment of choice, yeah.
00:25:44.44\00:25:45.94
Treatment of choice.
00:25:45.97\00:25:47.31
And what that it really means
00:25:47.34\00:25:48.81
is being exposed to our fears
little by little by little.
00:25:48.84\00:25:51.88
And not acting out. Yeah.
00:25:51.91\00:25:54.85
Clients can learn and
decide how to respond,
00:25:54.88\00:25:57.39
emotions can be controlled.
00:25:57.42\00:25:59.22
That was an excellent point.
00:25:59.25\00:26:00.66
Good.
00:26:00.69\00:26:03.02
There can be
spiritual warfare going on.
00:26:03.06\00:26:05.03
We have to be, as
Christian counselors,
00:26:05.06\00:26:06.46
we have to be
cognizant of, you know,
00:26:06.49\00:26:08.66
we need to get
their full stories.
00:26:08.70\00:26:11.03
But that's not always the case.
00:26:11.07\00:26:14.10
We need to look at
how Jesus was tempted,
00:26:14.14\00:26:16.27
we need to look
at His story too,
00:26:16.30\00:26:17.77
because that will help us
to feel like we're not alone.
00:26:17.81\00:26:20.91
Jesus was tempted on many points
00:26:20.94\00:26:22.64
but He did not do things
in His own strength, did He?
00:26:22.68\00:26:25.51
He relied upon His father
and this is an example for us.
00:26:25.55\00:26:28.48
We can't do things
in our own strength.
00:26:28.52\00:26:30.65
We need to bring
Christ into the picture
00:26:30.69\00:26:34.82
and do trainings through Christ.
00:26:34.86\00:26:36.26
Amen.
00:26:36.29\00:26:37.63
We need to constantly
move closer to our fears,
00:26:37.66\00:26:40.86
being patient with our clients,
00:26:40.90\00:26:42.43
not trying to hurry
them through their stories.
00:26:42.46\00:26:45.77
Chemistry of the brain,
00:26:45.80\00:26:48.20
sometimes that just
needs to be slowed down
00:26:48.24\00:26:50.27
and medication can help,
00:26:50.31\00:26:51.64
but if medication
is in the picture,
00:26:51.67\00:26:53.11
we need to be in
contact with the doctors.
00:26:53.14\00:26:56.54
We need to know what's going on.
00:26:56.58\00:26:58.15
Natural remedies can
also be very helpful,
00:26:58.18\00:27:00.08
we talked a little about that.
00:27:00.12\00:27:02.38
We talked about the
eight laws of nature.
00:27:02.42\00:27:05.15
And surrendering our thoughts
are so important, and Jenn,
00:27:05.19\00:27:10.26
I would like you to go
ahead and close this out.
00:27:10.29\00:27:12.06
Thanks.
00:27:12.09\00:27:13.43
So Paul said in Romans
8: 38-39, "I am persuaded,
00:27:13.46\00:27:19.93
that neither death, nor life,
nor angels, nor principalities,
00:27:19.97\00:27:23.37
nor powers, nor things present,
nor things to come, nor height,
00:27:23.41\00:27:27.11
nor depth, nor
any other creature,
00:27:27.14\00:27:29.81
shall be able to separate
us from the love of God,
00:27:29.84\00:27:33.01
which is in
Christ Jesus our Lord."
00:27:33.05\00:27:34.92
And in the package of that
love comes healing, comes grace,
00:27:34.95\00:27:40.19
comes freedom from
bondage and comes healing
00:27:40.22\00:27:44.03
for all of our diseases
including our mental diseases
00:27:44.06\00:27:46.59
and I wanna encourage
you to reach out after Jesus
00:27:46.63\00:27:49.66
and also find a
good Christian counselor
00:27:49.70\00:27:51.57
if that's called
for, in your situation.
00:27:51.60\00:27:53.23
Thank you for
coming to our program.
00:27:53.27\00:27:55.20
And may God
bless you abundantly.
00:27:55.24\00:27:57.14
Tune in next time to A
Multitude of Counselors.
00:27:57.17\00:27:59.61