Welcome to A
Multitude of Counselors.
00:00:29.42\00:00:31.96
We're so happy you
joined us for our program.
00:00:31.99\00:00:35.13
We like to focus in this program
00:00:35.16\00:00:36.73
on raising
awareness about mental health
00:00:36.77\00:00:39.03
and all of the remedies
that are available to us
00:00:39.07\00:00:42.60
to help heal us from
our emotional behavioral
00:00:42.64\00:00:45.67
and mental disorders
00:00:45.71\00:00:47.58
I have a wonderful
treatment team today
00:00:47.61\00:00:49.68
and I like to
introduce them one by one.
00:00:49.71\00:00:51.88
Let's look first
at Shelley Wiggins,
00:00:51.91\00:00:53.92
I'm so glad you
are here, Shelly.
00:00:53.95\00:00:55.28
She is from Michigan
00:00:55.32\00:00:56.65
and Shelly runs a
counseling practice
00:00:56.69\00:00:58.49
called Driftwood Counseling
00:00:58.52\00:01:00.39
and it's through
Driftwood Counseling
00:01:00.42\00:01:01.86
that she teats a
variety of people
00:01:01.89\00:01:04.13
and a variety of issues.
00:01:04.16\00:01:05.99
She likes to focus on anxiety,
addictions and abuse recovery
00:01:06.03\00:01:10.70
and she uses not
only talk therapy,
00:01:10.73\00:01:13.13
traditional
counseling talk therapy
00:01:13.17\00:01:15.80
but equine therapy with horses.
00:01:15.84\00:01:18.54
So glad to have
you here. Thank you.
00:01:18.57\00:01:20.38
Shelly, you always
give such practical counsel.
00:01:20.41\00:01:23.35
And very thankful also
to have David Guerro here.
00:01:23.38\00:01:26.51
David is from Wisconsin
00:01:26.55\00:01:28.65
and David runs a ministry
called Rekindle, The Flame,
00:01:28.68\00:01:32.55
it is a restoration
ministry helping people
00:01:32.59\00:01:36.09
experience restoration
into the image of God
00:01:36.12\00:01:38.76
which is what he designed us for
00:01:38.79\00:01:40.73
and he wants us to come back to
00:01:40.76\00:01:42.66
and so you're all
about that and through that,
00:01:42.70\00:01:45.23
you are chaplain,
you're also a pastor,
00:01:45.27\00:01:48.60
you're a life coach and
you teach life coaching.
00:01:48.64\00:01:51.51
And you are
biblically certified counselor.
00:01:51.54\00:01:53.74
So you are a crazy
man, I'm just saying.
00:01:53.78\00:01:56.91
He is a busy man.
00:01:56.95\00:01:58.28
Yeah, but he enjoys life,
00:01:58.31\00:01:59.95
and he loves to share
good solid information.
00:01:59.98\00:02:01.88
I'm glad you invited me.
00:02:01.92\00:02:03.25
Yeah, I'm glad to have you here.
00:02:03.28\00:02:04.85
Also have Nivishi,
Dr. Nivishi Edwards,
00:02:04.89\00:02:07.89
she is from Tennessee.
00:02:07.92\00:02:10.49
She is a virtual
private practice counselor
00:02:10.53\00:02:13.36
at drnivishi.com.
00:02:13.40\00:02:15.16
She's also a teacher at
Southern Adventist University
00:02:15.20\00:02:18.67
and inspiring author.
00:02:18.70\00:02:20.04
She's another crazy person
that attempts too many things.
00:02:20.07\00:02:22.37
She is a wonderful
blessing to the show
00:02:22.40\00:02:25.57
and to me personally and
we're sol glad you're here.
00:02:25.61\00:02:27.78
She likes to help people
develop healthy relationships
00:02:27.81\00:02:31.05
including healthy
relationships with themselves,
00:02:31.08\00:02:33.52
which is important.
00:02:33.55\00:02:34.88
Thank you. Beautiful.
00:02:34.92\00:02:36.25
We have my co-host Rob Davidson,
00:02:36.28\00:02:38.12
Rob works with Abide
Counseling Network with me,
00:02:38.15\00:02:41.32
and he also has,
00:02:41.36\00:02:42.69
he is a private practice
counselor in the DC area
00:02:42.72\00:02:46.03
and he works the
variety of presentations
00:02:46.06\00:02:47.90
on a variety of issues
00:02:47.93\00:02:49.26
but he likes to
focusing on helping men
00:02:49.30\00:02:52.40
develop biblical manhood,
00:02:52.43\00:02:54.24
servant leadership and integrity
00:02:54.27\00:02:56.44
and that is
such a desperate need
00:02:56.47\00:02:58.17
in our world today in
the church and in the world.
00:02:58.21\00:03:00.54
And so we're so glad
that you are on that, Rob,
00:03:00.58\00:03:03.28
and I'm so glad personally
that each one of you are here.
00:03:03.31\00:03:05.61
Thank you.
00:03:05.65\00:03:06.98
We're gonna be talking
today about Codependency.
00:03:07.02\00:03:09.55
We hear that term
tossed around a lot
00:03:09.58\00:03:12.29
and sometimes we're kind
of fussy on the definition.
00:03:12.32\00:03:15.52
So let's get a
definition up right now.
00:03:15.56\00:03:17.83
Codependency is a dysfunctional
helping relationship
00:03:17.86\00:03:21.46
where one person supports
00:03:21.50\00:03:23.10
or enables another
person's addiction,
00:03:23.13\00:03:26.20
poor mental health,
immaturity, irresponsibility,
00:03:26.23\00:03:30.17
or under-achievement.
00:03:30.21\00:03:32.47
So basically,
if I'm codependent,
00:03:32.51\00:03:35.48
I need you to stay sick
00:03:35.51\00:03:38.71
because you being
sick does something for me
00:03:38.75\00:03:42.62
or I think so anyway.
00:03:42.65\00:03:44.35
So that's the
definition of codependency,
00:03:44.39\00:03:46.15
it's a little bit
of a scary weird thing
00:03:46.19\00:03:48.59
but what about the prevalence,
00:03:48.62\00:03:49.96
kind of hard to
try the prevalence
00:03:49.99\00:03:51.33
with any kind of
formal literature.
00:03:51.36\00:03:52.89
But I will say this, I would say
00:03:52.93\00:03:54.26
anywhere we see
addiction or dysfunction
00:03:54.30\00:03:57.93
or under functioning or abuse,
00:03:57.97\00:04:00.90
we're gonna have
some kind of codependency
00:04:00.94\00:04:03.57
because we were created
by God to be in relationship
00:04:03.61\00:04:06.61
and sometimes
we don't understand
00:04:06.64\00:04:08.41
how that relationship works,
00:04:08.44\00:04:09.78
so we do the thing
that comes naturally
00:04:09.81\00:04:11.71
which is sometimes for
some people codependency.
00:04:11.75\00:04:15.42
So codependency
is quite prevalent.
00:04:15.45\00:04:17.22
And by the way
00:04:17.25\00:04:18.59
when I used the
term dysfunctional,
00:04:18.62\00:04:20.69
I'm not just using psychobabble,
00:04:20.72\00:04:22.96
God created the world
to function a certain way.
00:04:22.99\00:04:26.49
He created it
by a certain design
00:04:26.53\00:04:29.40
and that design is designed
to function a certain way.
00:04:29.43\00:04:34.47
God's laws are basically
descriptions of how life works.
00:04:34.50\00:04:38.57
You could look at
them that way, anyway,
00:04:38.61\00:04:40.54
and so dysfunction means
00:04:40.58\00:04:42.44
when we're outside
00:04:42.48\00:04:43.81
or out of sync
with God's design,
00:04:43.85\00:04:45.31
that's basically what I
mean when I say dysfunction.
00:04:45.35\00:04:47.42
Wherever we see dysfunction,
00:04:47.45\00:04:48.98
we probably gonna
see more codependency.
00:04:49.02\00:04:51.22
What is the
cause of codependency?
00:04:51.25\00:04:53.52
I would say that it is something
00:04:53.56\00:04:57.23
that we develop through,
mostly through observation.
00:04:57.26\00:05:00.23
The home of origin,
00:05:00.26\00:05:01.60
we see codependent behaviors,
00:05:01.63\00:05:03.33
our role models are codependent,
00:05:03.37\00:05:04.70
we're gonna think,
00:05:04.73\00:05:06.07
oh, this is just how you handle
bad behavior in other people.
00:05:06.10\00:05:10.14
But the good news is that
the prognosis is positive.
00:05:10.17\00:05:12.71
Right.
00:05:12.74\00:05:14.08
We can learn better
ways of functioning.
00:05:14.11\00:05:15.44
Can I have an amen
from my team of therapist.
00:05:15.48\00:05:16.85
Amen. Amen.
00:05:16.88\00:05:18.41
There's hope. There is hope.
00:05:18.45\00:05:20.12
There is always hope in Jesus.
00:05:20.15\00:05:21.78
Hallelujah, amen.
00:05:21.82\00:05:23.49
We're into that.
00:05:23.52\00:05:25.69
So what are some
of the treatments?
00:05:25.72\00:05:27.39
I would say
groups such as Al-Anon
00:05:27.42\00:05:29.66
and I think you
were mentioning...
00:05:29.69\00:05:31.53
Adult Children of Alcoholics.
00:05:31.56\00:05:33.06
Adult Children of Alcoholics
which is a broader group,
00:05:33.09\00:05:35.56
it's not just for codependences,
00:05:35.60\00:05:37.03
for all the fall
out of growing up
00:05:37.07\00:05:38.60
in addictive home.
00:05:38.63\00:05:40.24
And then CoDA,
Co-Dependents Anonymous.
00:05:40.27\00:05:41.60
And then CoDA,
Co-Dependents Anonymous,
00:05:41.64\00:05:42.97
so there are several
different organizations
00:05:43.00\00:05:44.87
that have groups
that can help support us
00:05:44.91\00:05:46.91
through codependency
00:05:46.94\00:05:48.41
and that is part of
the prescription, isn't it?
00:05:48.44\00:05:50.65
That's part of how people
00:05:50.68\00:05:52.01
get well is to
be with other people
00:05:52.05\00:05:53.65
and they have
that accountability
00:05:53.68\00:05:55.25
and at the same time support
00:05:55.28\00:05:56.75
as they move away
from an unhealthy pattern.
00:05:56.79\00:05:58.95
So what things
have you guys used
00:05:58.99\00:06:00.76
in your practice to help
people overcome codependency?
00:06:00.79\00:06:05.89
I go into a teaching mode
00:06:05.93\00:06:08.33
and education on boundaries
is usually where I start.
00:06:08.36\00:06:14.37
I recommend the book Boundaries
by Townsend and Cloud and,
00:06:14.40\00:06:19.34
you know, they have it on a DVD
00:06:19.37\00:06:21.11
where sometimes it's
like homework assignment.
00:06:21.14\00:06:24.85
You know, send it home
with the client and say please,
00:06:24.88\00:06:28.08
you know, view
this or read this book
00:06:28.12\00:06:30.52
and take notes and identify
where are your troubled areas
00:06:30.55\00:06:35.66
and what is causing
you not to have boundaries
00:06:35.69\00:06:38.26
with this
particular people in your life.
00:06:38.29\00:06:40.26
Have you ever had the
experience with the book
00:06:40.30\00:06:41.83
Boundaries where
people are reading it
00:06:41.86\00:06:43.20
and they get back
with you, they are like,
00:06:43.23\00:06:45.30
"I can't believe
somebody wrote this.
00:06:45.33\00:06:47.80
They wrote it about me."
00:06:47.84\00:06:49.17
Absolutely. Yes.
00:06:49.20\00:06:50.54
Yeah. All the time.
00:06:50.57\00:06:51.91
Yeah, yeah, it's a very
helpful book to a lot of...
00:06:51.94\00:06:53.38
Should have been
like required reading
00:06:53.41\00:06:55.24
in high school or middle school.
00:06:55.28\00:06:56.98
I've also found that
00:06:57.01\00:06:58.35
the awareness of
boundaries is one thing
00:06:58.38\00:06:59.98
but the implementation of
boundaries is totally different
00:07:00.02\00:07:02.72
because we're just
not used to doing it
00:07:02.75\00:07:04.22
for people in
codependent relationships
00:07:04.25\00:07:06.35
just aren't used to going there.
00:07:06.39\00:07:07.72
Yeah. Yeah.
00:07:07.76\00:07:09.09
Not only are they
not used to going there,
00:07:09.12\00:07:11.79
but they are afraid to go there.
00:07:11.83\00:07:13.36
Because if you stop there,
00:07:13.40\00:07:14.80
behavior like you
were talking about earlier
00:07:14.83\00:07:17.17
and because if you
stopped their behavior
00:07:17.20\00:07:19.33
and then it takes away from me
00:07:19.37\00:07:20.70
because I want to feel that way
00:07:20.74\00:07:22.90
and so that would makes it
very difficult to implement.
00:07:22.94\00:07:24.84
What's also
interesting about that,
00:07:24.87\00:07:26.21
it's not only
does it impact you,
00:07:26.24\00:07:27.84
the codependent but what
about the relationship itself.
00:07:27.88\00:07:30.78
Because there will be a shift
00:07:30.81\00:07:32.15
in the dynamics
of the relationship
00:07:32.18\00:07:34.38
and sometimes that's
really challenging for people.
00:07:34.42\00:07:36.18
If I stop doing what I'm doing
00:07:36.22\00:07:37.95
to support this person
the way that I have been,
00:07:37.99\00:07:40.69
then what will happen with
us in our relationship dynamic?
00:07:40.72\00:07:45.09
Let me tell you, Nivishi,
00:07:45.13\00:07:46.83
that I've had a client
00:07:46.86\00:07:48.83
who had to go
through the stages of grief
00:07:48.86\00:07:51.03
where they got to
this realization that
00:07:51.07\00:07:53.44
this relationship was unhealthy,
00:07:53.47\00:07:55.70
they needed to let it go
00:07:55.74\00:07:57.24
and there was a
tremendous sense of loss.
00:07:57.27\00:07:58.77
Absolutely.
00:07:58.81\00:08:00.14
So all of a sudden we
moved into grief counselor.
00:08:00.18\00:08:01.51
Grief counselor. Yes.
00:08:01.54\00:08:03.45
And it was...
00:08:03.48\00:08:04.81
You got your other hat. Yeah.
00:08:04.85\00:08:06.18
Absolutely.
00:08:06.21\00:08:07.55
Yeah, yeah. That's amazing.
00:08:07.58\00:08:08.92
I also, you talked
and you asked about
00:08:08.95\00:08:10.29
what do we prescribe to
clients when this is the issue.
00:08:10.32\00:08:12.95
I actually ask them to
Google the word codependency.
00:08:12.99\00:08:16.46
I say for homework tonight,
before you come back next week,
00:08:16.49\00:08:19.83
Google codependency and read
00:08:19.86\00:08:21.63
and tell me what you find
00:08:21.66\00:08:23.00
when we come back
and we'll talk about it,
00:08:23.03\00:08:24.37
and it's amazing the insights
00:08:24.40\00:08:27.14
that they gain as a result of
00:08:27.17\00:08:29.60
simply looking
at the definition,
00:08:29.64\00:08:32.14
seeing some of the talk about,
what it is and how it works
00:08:32.17\00:08:35.74
and whether or not
it's something that is real.
00:08:35.78\00:08:39.15
Lots of good stuff come out
of the next counseling session.
00:08:39.18\00:08:41.72
So probably at this moment
as you said that some people...
00:08:41.75\00:08:44.09
Are googling it up.
00:08:44.12\00:08:45.45
Googling it right
now. Googling about this.
00:08:45.49\00:08:46.82
Probably.
00:08:46.86\00:08:48.19
Jennifer, another
definition of codependency is
00:08:48.22\00:08:51.76
an addiction to people pleasing.
00:08:51.79\00:08:53.60
Yeah. That's very precise.
00:08:53.63\00:08:55.56
So if everyone
is happy around me,
00:08:55.60\00:08:57.90
I have a sense of control
00:08:57.93\00:08:59.43
and then there I
can call myself down,
00:08:59.47\00:09:01.67
they have more
peace inside of me.
00:09:01.70\00:09:04.71
I find myself
telling people all the time,
00:09:04.74\00:09:08.41
you say you don't
want to hurt their feelings
00:09:08.44\00:09:11.71
and this is
particularly true of women
00:09:11.75\00:09:13.18
because we are
very wired for empathy,
00:09:13.21\00:09:15.22
we feel other
people's feelings a lot.
00:09:15.25\00:09:17.09
So I will say, you say
00:09:17.12\00:09:18.65
you don't want to hurt
others people's feelings
00:09:18.69\00:09:21.19
and this was a
realization for me
00:09:21.22\00:09:22.56
so I don't want to just be
00:09:22.59\00:09:23.93
accusing other
people but really,
00:09:23.96\00:09:25.53
like for me I don't
want to hurt my own feelings.
00:09:25.56\00:09:26.93
Absolutely.
00:09:26.96\00:09:28.30
Because if I said no to them,
00:09:28.33\00:09:30.07
I was conceded disappointment
and I was gonna feel it
00:09:30.10\00:09:33.27
and so in order to
escape that feeling on my part,
00:09:33.30\00:09:36.97
I was pleasing
them like you said
00:09:37.01\00:09:39.31
addicted to people pleasing.
00:09:39.34\00:09:40.68
Well, I'm gonna say
00:09:40.71\00:09:42.54
what's behind
that I can't say no,
00:09:42.58\00:09:47.45
I'm always saying
yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:09:47.48\00:09:50.99
There must be
something behind as a boy.
00:09:51.02\00:09:52.35
Well, I think as
Christians though
00:09:52.39\00:09:55.26
there is a lot of
codependent behavior
00:09:55.29\00:09:57.46
because we think
it's the Christian thing
00:09:57.49\00:09:59.13
to do unfortunately.
00:09:59.16\00:10:00.96
Okay, give an example.
00:10:01.00\00:10:02.46
So if as a Christian
it is my responsibility
00:10:02.50\00:10:05.90
to be my brother's keeper.
00:10:05.93\00:10:07.77
Be nice.
00:10:07.80\00:10:09.14
And as a part,
00:10:09.17\00:10:10.51
nice I'll be my brother's keeper
00:10:10.54\00:10:12.67
it's to give and to do
and to say yes all the time
00:10:12.71\00:10:16.68
because that's
what a Christian does.
00:10:16.71\00:10:19.68
If I say no,
00:10:19.71\00:10:21.35
then what does that mean
about me and my Christianity?
00:10:21.38\00:10:23.95
And how will that look
to my brother or sister
00:10:23.99\00:10:26.05
at the church if I say no
00:10:26.09\00:10:28.22
and so I get into the
habit of always saying yes
00:10:28.26\00:10:31.06
because I think that's
the Christian thing to do.
00:10:31.09\00:10:34.80
Let me give a scenario, okay,
00:10:34.83\00:10:36.16
there is a strong
leader in the ministry
00:10:36.20\00:10:38.23
and that strong
leader is extremely ambitious
00:10:38.27\00:10:40.70
and they're always
setting these goals.
00:10:40.74\00:10:42.07
The person is very charismatic
00:10:42.10\00:10:43.84
and they're able to just
command respect from people
00:10:43.87\00:10:46.54
and everybody wants to please,
00:10:46.57\00:10:47.91
it's just kind of a natural,
00:10:47.94\00:10:49.28
certain people you
just want their approval.
00:10:49.31\00:10:51.65
And so this
leader, great person,
00:10:51.68\00:10:54.18
great ideas,
brilliant, creative person
00:10:54.22\00:10:57.25
but they set goals
that are unrealistic
00:10:57.29\00:10:59.49
that burn people out.
00:10:59.52\00:11:01.26
And those people
working with that person
00:11:01.29\00:11:04.46
in order to say no
00:11:04.49\00:11:07.36
have to not only
disappoint the leader
00:11:07.40\00:11:09.46
whose approval they
craved so desperately
00:11:09.50\00:11:12.20
but they have to
seem not spiritual.
00:11:12.23\00:11:14.94
Wow.
00:11:14.97\00:11:16.30
So, you know, you are
saying like codependency
00:11:16.34\00:11:19.17
can really cloak
itself in religiosity...
00:11:19.21\00:11:22.61
Absolutely. Very, very easily.
00:11:22.64\00:11:24.51
Absolutely.
00:11:24.55\00:11:25.88
And that's why we
as Christian therapist
00:11:25.91\00:11:27.38
need to be on guard against it
00:11:27.42\00:11:28.95
and helping
other people understand
00:11:28.98\00:11:31.02
what we're talking about.
00:11:31.05\00:11:32.39
One of the issues, Jen,
00:11:32.42\00:11:33.76
that you just
maybe think about is,
00:11:33.79\00:11:35.92
I like to try to get the client
00:11:35.96\00:11:37.59
who is in this type
of relationship to think,
00:11:37.63\00:11:40.30
okay what will happen
00:11:40.33\00:11:42.06
if this
relationship is no longer there.
00:11:42.10\00:11:43.80
In other words
are they so dependent
00:11:43.83\00:11:45.17
on the relationship
00:11:45.20\00:11:46.53
that they will start
to have dysfunctional...
00:11:46.57\00:11:50.27
dysfunction in other areas.
00:11:50.31\00:11:52.11
And then that
helps to bridge me to,
00:11:52.14\00:11:54.21
well, who really is our savior.
00:11:54.24\00:11:55.58
Absolutely.
00:11:55.61\00:11:56.95
Are we dependent so
much on this relationship
00:11:56.98\00:11:58.71
that this is our savior,
that's why I try to go there.
00:11:58.75\00:12:02.88
Could it be the kind
of the spiritual core
00:12:02.92\00:12:05.49
of codependency
is a type of idolatry
00:12:05.52\00:12:07.66
where we put a
relationship in place of God
00:12:07.69\00:12:09.62
and don't we all
have to be willing?
00:12:09.66\00:12:13.13
I mean, I'm being careful here
00:12:13.16\00:12:15.63
that willing to say
goodbye to a human relationship
00:12:15.66\00:12:18.10
if it gets in
between us and God.
00:12:18.13\00:12:20.00
Absolutely. Yeah.
00:12:20.04\00:12:21.50
Being more concerned about
00:12:21.54\00:12:22.87
what does God think
about me than worrying about
00:12:22.90\00:12:26.34
what the other
person thinks about me.
00:12:26.37\00:12:28.61
If I have, if I
set this boundary
00:12:28.64\00:12:31.08
what's gonna happen
in the relationship?
00:12:31.11\00:12:32.45
Yeah.
00:12:32.48\00:12:33.82
And I think the easiest way
00:12:33.85\00:12:35.42
to talk to clients
about this is to say,
00:12:35.45\00:12:37.95
the goal is to have your
insides match your outsides.
00:12:37.99\00:12:42.62
What do you mean by that?
00:12:42.66\00:12:44.63
Meaning you stamp on my
foot and I smile and go,
00:12:44.66\00:12:48.06
"Happy Sabbath, thank you.
00:12:48.10\00:12:50.60
I'm so glad to see you."
00:12:50.63\00:12:53.37
In the mean time you
keep stamping on my foot
00:12:53.40\00:12:55.70
and I keep smiling
and everything's great.
00:12:55.74\00:13:00.34
So the inside is not
matching the outside.
00:13:00.38\00:13:01.71
You have a heart attack.
00:13:01.74\00:13:03.45
You know, so I
mean but we see this
00:13:03.48\00:13:07.08
and we wonder why church
isn't a safer place perhaps.
00:13:07.12\00:13:11.39
Yeah.
00:13:11.42\00:13:13.09
Because people are
afraid to be congruent
00:13:13.12\00:13:15.56
with what they're
really feeling inside.
00:13:15.59\00:13:17.46
Now we have to go
with appropriateness...
00:13:17.49\00:13:19.89
You can't just be
blabbing your emotions
00:13:19.93\00:13:21.80
and your problems
all over the place
00:13:21.83\00:13:24.63
but there is a
place for being authentic.
00:13:24.67\00:13:26.97
Okay, so if I offend
you, you know, somehow
00:13:27.00\00:13:29.70
and before your church, okay.
00:13:29.74\00:13:31.07
Okay.
00:13:31.11\00:13:32.44
And it hurts your feelings,
instead of thank you, you know,
00:13:32.47\00:13:36.14
what can you do?
00:13:36.18\00:13:37.61
Well, read Matthew 18, it
says, "Go and talk it out."
00:13:37.65\00:13:41.25
So right in that
movement, could you say to me,
00:13:41.28\00:13:43.15
"Ouch" or what, would you do?
00:13:43.18\00:13:45.85
If you had some
good practice with it...
00:13:45.89\00:13:47.36
But you might
have to go, you know...
00:13:47.39\00:13:48.72
I might have to go back.
00:13:48.76\00:13:50.09
The next day of course...
00:13:50.13\00:13:51.46
And for the
codependent person typically
00:13:51.49\00:13:53.29
there is a lack of bit awareness
00:13:53.33\00:13:55.43
that they have at the onsets...
00:13:55.46\00:13:56.87
All right.
00:13:56.90\00:13:58.23
The need for the
behavior change and it's okay,
00:13:58.27\00:13:59.70
it's not in the moment, so
he guesses what's going on.
00:13:59.73\00:14:01.60
Thank you for...
00:14:01.64\00:14:02.97
This is what I'm hearing,
this is what I'm hearing.
00:14:03.00\00:14:04.34
It's okay because the
process goes on to say, okay,
00:14:04.37\00:14:07.04
the level of
awareness needs to be heightened
00:14:07.08\00:14:08.84
in order for
change to be enacted.
00:14:08.88\00:14:10.75
And so if I can first
see that there is an issue...
00:14:10.78\00:14:14.18
Then I can then make a change
to the issue that is at play.
00:14:14.22\00:14:18.79
Yeah.
00:14:18.82\00:14:20.16
You are about to say.
00:14:20.19\00:14:21.52
Oh, no, well, I just
want to piggy back on that.
00:14:21.56\00:14:24.23
You saying I have
to make the change
00:14:24.26\00:14:26.49
but what I'm hearing is that
00:14:26.53\00:14:27.96
there is an
inability to make the change.
00:14:28.00\00:14:29.66
Yes.
00:14:29.70\00:14:31.03
And there is
something missing. Yes.
00:14:31.07\00:14:32.57
And from what I'm
hearing and of course,
00:14:32.60\00:14:35.84
this is what I do
with my clients is that
00:14:35.87\00:14:38.21
God must be
missing on the inside
00:14:38.24\00:14:41.28
and that we have a cup here
and it's now it's half empty.
00:14:41.31\00:14:45.85
What I find is that with
codependent people is that
00:14:45.88\00:14:48.88
the cup is empty
and is that love cup
00:14:48.92\00:14:51.12
and that love is God,
00:14:51.15\00:14:52.99
and so somehow
we have to help them
00:14:53.02\00:14:55.56
tap into the source
of love and that is God.
00:14:55.59\00:14:58.53
Can they always tap
into the source of love
00:14:58.56\00:15:01.56
while they're in that
codependent relationship?
00:15:01.60\00:15:03.60
Could it be that they...
00:15:03.63\00:15:05.43
Sometimes the breakdown of
that relationship can make room.
00:15:05.47\00:15:09.17
Is it always an exact
process where fill up with God
00:15:09.20\00:15:11.47
and then you'll be
able to have boundaries,
00:15:11.51\00:15:12.84
or it's sometimes
like kind of both?
00:15:12.87\00:15:15.08
It depends on the individual
and yes, you know, it's,
00:15:15.11\00:15:17.58
you know, it's both...
00:15:17.61\00:15:18.95
Yeah, yup, we all have wounds
and so our cup has holes in it.
00:15:18.98\00:15:22.12
Yeah.
00:15:22.15\00:15:23.49
And I think our job
as counselors is to look,
00:15:23.52\00:15:26.45
you know, in a
gentle kind loving way at
00:15:26.49\00:15:29.16
what needs to be patched up
00:15:29.19\00:15:30.53
so that when it gets
filled it's teasing there.
00:15:30.56\00:15:33.26
Yes.
00:15:33.29\00:15:34.63
And I like that word that
you used earlier practice.
00:15:34.66\00:15:36.46
Yeah.
00:15:36.50\00:15:37.83
Because I
literally have to practice
00:15:37.87\00:15:39.63
with my clients and role play,
00:15:39.67\00:15:41.00
what it sounds like to
them to actually say no
00:15:41.04\00:15:44.37
and for the fun of it
I told one of my client
00:15:44.41\00:15:46.91
just in a fun way
say no to anything,
00:15:46.94\00:15:50.71
everybody for 24 hours
00:15:50.75\00:15:52.78
and he had a blast doing
it because he wasn't used to,
00:15:52.81\00:15:56.18
but he came back after
that 24 hours and said...
00:15:56.22\00:15:57.79
With no friends.
00:15:57.82\00:15:59.15
That felt pretty
good. He said that was good.
00:15:59.19\00:16:00.66
So it's the process
as a Christian counselor,
00:16:00.69\00:16:03.19
it's a process of teaching them
00:16:03.22\00:16:05.13
and once again
I'm saying process
00:16:05.16\00:16:06.49
because it takes time,
00:16:06.53\00:16:07.86
teaching them how
to abide in Christ.
00:16:07.90\00:16:10.03
Amen. Right?
00:16:10.07\00:16:11.40
Abiding in divine. Right.
00:16:11.43\00:16:12.77
And Jesus said,
let your yes be yes
00:16:12.80\00:16:15.47
and your no be no.
00:16:15.50\00:16:18.17
But women look at codependency
00:16:18.21\00:16:19.91
that relationship
starts with our self though.
00:16:19.94\00:16:23.14
If we think about the fact that
00:16:23.18\00:16:25.21
I am having a hard time
00:16:25.25\00:16:27.22
with personal
inconsistencies in my life,
00:16:27.25\00:16:30.79
I sometimes will have
problems with inconsistencies
00:16:30.82\00:16:33.96
in my relationships
with those around me.
00:16:33.99\00:16:36.62
So if I learn to
love me and trust me,
00:16:36.66\00:16:42.93
I can learn to love
00:16:42.96\00:16:44.30
and have healthy interesting
relationships with others.
00:16:44.33\00:16:46.74
Yeah.
00:16:46.77\00:16:48.10
And so have relationships
that look more healthy
00:16:48.14\00:16:51.47
versus those who are dependent
and who are codependent.
00:16:51.51\00:16:54.74
Takes a while to get
there to love one so.
00:16:54.78\00:16:56.11
Absolutely. That's for sure.
00:16:56.14\00:16:57.48
Absolutely. In the right way.
00:16:57.51\00:16:58.85
You might have played.
00:16:58.88\00:17:00.22
Self, the wrong kind
of self love is all too
00:17:00.25\00:17:01.58
abundant in nature,
00:17:01.62\00:17:03.62
but there is a self
respect that we need to have,
00:17:03.65\00:17:07.26
where we have a relationship
of accountability...
00:17:07.29\00:17:09.06
Yes.
00:17:09.09\00:17:10.43
But also, you know,
respect for ourselves,
00:17:10.46\00:17:14.13
I mean there's
really no better way to say
00:17:14.16\00:17:15.50
or you hold yourself accountable
00:17:15.53\00:17:16.87
but you also respect yourself.
00:17:16.90\00:17:18.43
So go ahead and get into
the presenting problem, Rob.
00:17:18.47\00:17:21.10
And how in the
world can we ever obey
00:17:21.14\00:17:22.47
that second commandment
to love others, if we're not,
00:17:22.50\00:17:24.64
don't know how to
respect ourselves.
00:17:24.67\00:17:26.01
Absolutely. Yes.
00:17:26.04\00:17:27.38
Okay, so here's the case study,
00:17:27.41\00:17:28.74
19 year old of
Swiss descent Laura
00:17:28.78\00:17:32.15
comes to
counseling at the request
00:17:32.18\00:17:33.68
of her Australian boyfriend Karl
00:17:33.72\00:17:36.18
who has taken a corporate
position in the States.
00:17:36.22\00:17:39.29
Laura's father is a professional
00:17:39.32\00:17:40.79
at a college in Switzerland
00:17:40.82\00:17:42.66
and her mother stays home
with her four other children.
00:17:42.69\00:17:46.56
Karl reports that
Laura is too emotional.
00:17:46.59\00:17:49.63
He spend several
sessions with her
00:17:49.66\00:17:51.23
and she shares
with you the struggles
00:17:51.27\00:17:53.47
that she has when
Karl treats her badly.
00:17:53.50\00:17:56.57
Karl is 30 years old,
00:17:56.60\00:17:58.27
has a high powered
job in a big corporation
00:17:58.31\00:18:01.44
and is an elder
at the local church.
00:18:01.48\00:18:03.41
You learned that
Karl has convinced Laura
00:18:03.45\00:18:05.45
that her family
cannot be trusted
00:18:05.48\00:18:07.92
and that very few
church members are saved.
00:18:07.95\00:18:11.25
She has few relationships
00:18:11.29\00:18:13.05
and those that she does has
00:18:13.09\00:18:15.19
Karl describes as dysfunctional.
00:18:15.22\00:18:17.63
After several
sessions you tell Laura
00:18:17.66\00:18:19.39
that she is not too emotional
00:18:19.43\00:18:21.36
that her reactions
to Karl's criticisms
00:18:21.40\00:18:23.43
and control are normal.
00:18:23.47\00:18:25.67
So where do you go next
00:18:25.70\00:18:27.30
and by the way Karl is
paying for the sessions.
00:18:27.34\00:18:29.97
Find somebody else
to pay for the sessions.
00:18:30.01\00:18:33.27
Seriously. There's a start.
00:18:33.31\00:18:34.64
Conjoint sessions...
00:18:34.68\00:18:36.01
Yeah.
00:18:36.04\00:18:37.38
Yeah, and...
00:18:37.41\00:18:38.75
Or a collateral,
00:18:38.78\00:18:40.12
I would
encourage Karl to come in
00:18:40.15\00:18:41.62
on behalf of his girlfriend
who he think needs help
00:18:41.65\00:18:46.35
and tell me the story...
00:18:46.39\00:18:47.92
Yeah.
00:18:47.96\00:18:49.29
And get him to share,
00:18:49.32\00:18:51.19
why are you
paying for counseling
00:18:51.23\00:18:52.59
and what do you
hope she gets out of it?
00:18:52.63\00:18:54.83
Yeah.
00:18:54.86\00:18:56.20
You know, and find out
what's really going on.
00:18:56.23\00:18:59.73
And what if he tells
you, you have to fix my wife.
00:18:59.77\00:19:02.80
Girlfriend.
00:19:02.84\00:19:04.37
Girlfriend, girlfriend.
00:19:04.41\00:19:05.74
Read the book Boundaries first
00:19:05.77\00:19:09.04
and then I'll see
you in a couple of weeks.
00:19:09.08\00:19:10.95
And then he says
no, you fix here.
00:19:10.98\00:19:12.38
For a conjoint session.
00:19:12.41\00:19:13.75
Do you guys see a formula
for a setup for abuse here?
00:19:13.78\00:19:17.65
Absolutely. Absolutely, control.
00:19:17.69\00:19:19.02
There is an
extreme power imbalance...
00:19:19.05\00:19:20.49
Control.
00:19:20.52\00:19:21.86
And he is quite a bit older
and they're young, you know,
00:19:21.89\00:19:23.36
as you get older the age
gap kind of closes a little bit,
00:19:23.39\00:19:26.63
they're young so the
age gap is very large.
00:19:26.66\00:19:28.93
He is also...
00:19:28.96\00:19:30.30
There is a
charisma gap, you know,
00:19:30.33\00:19:31.67
he is a stronger personality,
00:19:31.70\00:19:33.70
she is also not
in her home of where,
00:19:33.74\00:19:35.70
she is not in
her land of origin,
00:19:35.74\00:19:37.34
she is overseas,
00:19:37.37\00:19:38.71
so she is in
foreign territory...
00:19:38.74\00:19:40.14
And probably dependent
on him for a lot of things.
00:19:40.18\00:19:42.44
Depended on him
apparently financially
00:19:42.48\00:19:45.28
and he is critical of her
00:19:45.31\00:19:47.52
and not only that
00:19:47.55\00:19:48.88
but he is kind of cutting
her off from her relationships
00:19:48.92\00:19:53.25
by belittling and pathologizing
the relationships...
00:19:53.29\00:19:56.26
Look what he's
done to her world?
00:19:56.29\00:19:57.63
Exactly.
00:19:57.66\00:19:58.99
At home, at church he is elder,
00:19:59.03\00:20:00.56
he is a big corporate man
and so he has locked her in,
00:20:00.60\00:20:03.87
he has locked her in.
00:20:03.90\00:20:05.23
And the first thing I
would suspect seeing that
00:20:05.27\00:20:07.50
from this vantage point
00:20:07.54\00:20:09.10
having experience
something like this,
00:20:09.14\00:20:11.37
not for myself
but with the client,
00:20:11.41\00:20:13.17
the first thing I would ask is,
is there abuse going on here.
00:20:13.21\00:20:15.41
Absolutely.
00:20:15.44\00:20:16.88
Yeah, in a little probing...
00:20:16.91\00:20:18.25
And it's not
always physical abuse.
00:20:18.28\00:20:19.61
Right. Yeah.
00:20:19.65\00:20:20.98
It could be other kinds. Yeah.
00:20:21.02\00:20:22.35
Yes, exactly.
00:20:22.38\00:20:23.72
And show that power
wheel that comes with that.
00:20:23.75\00:20:26.59
What do you mean by power wheel?
00:20:26.62\00:20:29.02
In domestic violence they have
00:20:29.06\00:20:30.99
in recovery for
domestic violence
00:20:31.03\00:20:32.76
they have a wheel that
shows the culmination of power
00:20:32.79\00:20:38.07
and control before
it becomes physical.
00:20:38.10\00:20:41.27
So to have the,
00:20:41.30\00:20:44.07
the red flags to
build and recognize them,
00:20:44.11\00:20:46.84
you know, we can as therapist
look at this synapses and say,
00:20:46.88\00:20:50.35
whoa, red flags
00:20:50.38\00:20:51.75
but how do we
teach Laura to see them
00:20:51.78\00:20:54.28
for what they really are.
00:20:54.32\00:20:55.65
What they really are. Yeah.
00:20:55.68\00:20:57.02
What would you guys say to her?
00:20:57.05\00:20:58.39
I was gonna say one of the ways
00:20:58.42\00:20:59.75
that we can get her to see that,
00:20:59.79\00:21:01.12
to have that awareness
is just what we saw here
00:21:01.16\00:21:03.06
giving her the
permission to be able to say,
00:21:03.09\00:21:06.03
you know, it's not,
you're not being too emotional.
00:21:06.06\00:21:08.73
And it's okay to not,
00:21:08.76\00:21:12.07
to go against those criticisms
00:21:12.10\00:21:13.80
and control that
does not feel normal
00:21:13.84\00:21:15.64
because she hasn't,
00:21:15.67\00:21:17.01
she has been locked into
this relationship where it's...
00:21:17.04\00:21:19.84
She hasn't had
the permission to say,
00:21:19.87\00:21:22.48
I don't like this,
this doesn't feel good.
00:21:22.51\00:21:24.71
So coming into the
counseling relationship
00:21:24.75\00:21:26.65
or start to raise
that awareness as you say.
00:21:26.68\00:21:28.48
And psycho education,
00:21:28.52\00:21:29.85
it sounds like it'll be
really important for Laura
00:21:29.88\00:21:32.19
to just give her
information about
00:21:32.22\00:21:34.96
what may be a
healthy relationship
00:21:34.99\00:21:36.42
dynamic looks like.
00:21:36.46\00:21:37.79
Right.
00:21:37.83\00:21:39.16
Give her information and
letting her tell her story.
00:21:39.19\00:21:41.16
Then she tell her
story and you're listening,
00:21:41.20\00:21:42.86
you can point out some things
00:21:42.90\00:21:44.43
one by one of
what you are seeing,
00:21:44.47\00:21:47.04
then ask her questions
considering those things,
00:21:47.07\00:21:48.84
so I found that in counseling,
00:21:48.87\00:21:51.61
if you allow the person to talk
00:21:51.64\00:21:53.48
and then you repeat
what they're saying,
00:21:53.51\00:21:55.31
and see this is
what I'm hearing...
00:21:55.34\00:21:56.68
I love that.
00:21:56.71\00:21:58.05
They start to see this picture.
00:21:58.08\00:21:59.41
Absolutely.
00:21:59.45\00:22:00.78
It will be interesting to
look at her family of origin.
00:22:00.82\00:22:02.68
Her father is a professor,
00:22:02.72\00:22:04.05
her mom stay at
home with the children
00:22:04.09\00:22:06.39
to find out what those
dynamics may have looked like?
00:22:06.42\00:22:08.89
What she has seen growing
up that may have influenced
00:22:08.92\00:22:12.46
or is influencing her choices
00:22:12.49\00:22:14.70
surrounding her relationship
with Karl at this time.
00:22:14.73\00:22:16.90
Yeah.
00:22:16.93\00:22:18.27
And it doesn't
say so, I don't think
00:22:18.30\00:22:19.83
but you kind of wonder
00:22:19.87\00:22:21.20
what the relationships
are like with the family
00:22:21.24\00:22:23.00
and if he is pathologizing
00:22:23.04\00:22:24.37
all the
relationships in her life,
00:22:24.41\00:22:25.74
maybe he is succeeding
in kind of cutting her off
00:22:25.77\00:22:27.88
from her family
which may be dysfunctional
00:22:27.91\00:22:30.25
and there may be
some baggage there,
00:22:30.28\00:22:31.98
but they may
also be her lifeline.
00:22:32.01\00:22:33.95
Out of a really
unhealthy situation.
00:22:33.98\00:22:35.75
And like you are
saying, bringing him in...
00:22:35.78\00:22:37.92
Yes. Yeah.
00:22:37.95\00:22:39.29
Can possibly,
potentially help with that
00:22:39.32\00:22:41.42
because you at the council
00:22:41.46\00:22:42.82
who have
questions for him as well.
00:22:42.86\00:22:44.19
Sure.
00:22:44.23\00:22:45.56
Nivishi, don't you use a model
with some clients in terms of,
00:22:45.59\00:22:48.00
it's a glorified family
treaty but it is called a...
00:22:48.03\00:22:51.73
Genogram. Genogram, yes.
00:22:51.77\00:22:53.60
I wonder how you know that, Rob?
00:22:53.64\00:22:55.24
Real? Yes.
00:22:55.27\00:22:56.60
I do know. I do use a genogram.
00:22:56.64\00:22:57.97
And what does it help to
do when we're taking about it?
00:22:58.01\00:23:00.18
You tell me about
that Rob, what is that...
00:23:00.21\00:23:01.74
No, because I was your student.
00:23:01.78\00:23:04.05
This is what happens
00:23:04.08\00:23:05.41
when you get a bunch of
therapists at one table?
00:23:05.45\00:23:06.78
Yeah.
00:23:06.82\00:23:08.15
But, yeah genogram is a...
00:23:08.18\00:23:09.52
I think many of us are
familiar with our family tree
00:23:09.55\00:23:12.25
but in genogram in and of itself
00:23:12.29\00:23:13.69
looks more in
depth at the dynamics
00:23:13.72\00:23:16.19
within the family system.
00:23:16.22\00:23:17.83
And so you can track and trace
00:23:17.86\00:23:19.73
whatever health or disease
00:23:19.76\00:23:22.96
may be a part of
the family system
00:23:23.00\00:23:24.57
through the genorgram
00:23:24.60\00:23:26.03
and that helps
to give insights...
00:23:26.07\00:23:27.54
It's a visual...
00:23:27.57\00:23:28.90
What you guys got going here,
00:23:28.94\00:23:30.27
it's some kind of
like duel going on.
00:23:30.31\00:23:32.01
She was one time a
professor of mine and I had...
00:23:32.04\00:23:34.84
And I taught,
00:23:34.88\00:23:36.21
one of the
projects I gave you, Rob,
00:23:36.24\00:23:37.58
was to do a
genogram and so you, yes.
00:23:37.61\00:23:39.31
But the beauty of
it is you have that
00:23:39.35\00:23:40.85
visual right there
and the awareness...
00:23:40.88\00:23:42.58
The insight.
00:23:42.62\00:23:43.95
Oh, my goodness I can
see the generational patterns
00:23:43.99\00:23:46.05
coming down to me.
00:23:46.09\00:23:47.42
Okay.
00:23:47.46\00:23:48.79
And all of a
sudden, this is why I am,
00:23:48.82\00:23:50.33
this is the way my
brother is or whatever.
00:23:50.36\00:23:51.69
Yeah.
00:23:51.73\00:23:53.06
Now we sense some codependency.
00:23:53.09\00:23:54.63
No.
00:23:54.66\00:23:56.90
Dysfunction.
Healthy relationships.
00:23:56.93\00:23:58.53
Yes, yes, yes. Yeah.
00:23:58.57\00:24:00.24
But what would you do
00:24:00.27\00:24:01.77
'cause to me I
think the best way
00:24:01.80\00:24:03.67
to help her out of
an unhealthy attachment,
00:24:03.71\00:24:06.34
if you do come to the conclusion
00:24:06.37\00:24:07.94
after your discussion
with him in the session,
00:24:07.98\00:24:10.88
you come to the conclusion,
this is really toxic,
00:24:10.91\00:24:12.71
this girl needs to move on.
00:24:12.75\00:24:15.22
How do you get her connected,
she is in foreign country,
00:24:15.25\00:24:17.75
she hasn't have
any friends around,
00:24:17.79\00:24:19.12
he pathologizes her,
00:24:19.15\00:24:20.49
how you get her
connected to some one,
00:24:20.52\00:24:21.86
'cause me that would be
like essential is like some
00:24:21.89\00:24:23.86
relationship...
00:24:23.89\00:24:25.23
I say recommending one
of those Al-Anon groups
00:24:25.26\00:24:26.73
we talked about maybe
00:24:26.76\00:24:28.10
a wonderful
place for her to start.
00:24:28.13\00:24:29.46
If she starts going to CoDA
00:24:29.50\00:24:31.17
or Al-Anon or
one of those groups.
00:24:31.20\00:24:33.87
And if she can't get to
a meeting because she is,
00:24:33.90\00:24:36.81
you know, stuck
because he is the only
00:24:36.84\00:24:38.54
transportation or...
00:24:38.57\00:24:39.91
Yeah.
00:24:39.94\00:24:41.28
I mean we don't know
are they living together,
00:24:41.31\00:24:42.64
they were just a little
bit more information to gather,
00:24:42.68\00:24:46.25
but if she can't get out on
her own, she could go online,
00:24:46.28\00:24:51.05
there are telephone conference
meetings people can call into.
00:24:51.09\00:24:55.02
I think, Jen, you have one.
00:24:55.06\00:24:56.39
Absolutely free
conference support group.
00:24:56.42\00:24:57.79
Yeah.
00:24:57.83\00:24:59.19
So leading her to
find resources to help her.
00:24:59.23\00:25:01.76
Yes, connecting to
resource is essential I think.
00:25:01.80\00:25:03.43
Absolutely.
00:25:03.47\00:25:04.80
Getting her used to feel
having other relationships.
00:25:04.83\00:25:06.94
Could another step be resources,
00:25:06.97\00:25:09.54
connecting her to resources
00:25:09.57\00:25:10.91
and finding a way to
help her to connect Christ?
00:25:10.94\00:25:13.41
Yes, of course.
Connecting to Jesus.
00:25:13.44\00:25:15.24
That's one resource.
Yeah, that's one resource.
00:25:15.28\00:25:18.41
Finding her identity in
Christ, her position in Christ,
00:25:18.45\00:25:21.22
her power in Christ.
00:25:21.25\00:25:22.58
That's right.
00:25:22.62\00:25:23.95
And this is at the
heart of what a codependency
00:25:23.99\00:25:25.42
relationship is
lacking is to have Jesus
00:25:25.45\00:25:28.69
as the part are the one
who we are really dependent on.
00:25:28.72\00:25:31.99
Fully dependent on.
00:25:32.03\00:25:33.36
As opposed to fully dependent,
as opposed to a relationship.
00:25:33.40\00:25:35.36
Finding my
significance in Jesus.
00:25:35.40\00:25:37.43
Correct. That's it.
00:25:37.47\00:25:38.80
That's right, your primary
significance in Jesus, I agree,
00:25:38.83\00:25:40.87
amen. Very good.
00:25:40.90\00:25:42.24
Okay, summarize for us, Rob.
00:25:42.27\00:25:43.61
All right.
00:25:43.64\00:25:44.97
What have we covered? Yeah.
00:25:45.01\00:25:46.34
What has been done?
00:25:46.37\00:25:47.71
Yeah, we touched on
goods things here...
00:25:47.74\00:25:49.08
Helpful.
00:25:49.11\00:25:50.45
So we are talking
about the need for educating
00:25:50.48\00:25:51.81
especially on boundaries
00:25:51.85\00:25:53.18
and you mentioned
the excellent source is
00:25:53.21\00:25:54.55
a book called Boundaries
by Cloud and Townsend.
00:25:54.58\00:25:56.79
They also have other
books Boundaries on Marriage,
00:25:56.82\00:25:58.59
Boundaries with Teens.
00:25:58.62\00:26:00.06
So we need to raise
that heightened awareness
00:26:00.09\00:26:03.63
of what is going on as
codependent relationship.
00:26:03.66\00:26:06.93
Identify areas of
weakness, we talked about.
00:26:06.96\00:26:10.97
So if we can't educate,
00:26:11.00\00:26:13.90
they can be educating themselves
00:26:13.94\00:26:15.27
in between as
mentioned Google codependency
00:26:15.30\00:26:17.57
and they can come back
with the plethora of knowledge.
00:26:17.61\00:26:19.44
Absolutely.
00:26:19.47\00:26:20.84
People pleasing
is a tendency here
00:26:20.88\00:26:22.84
and that usually means that
00:26:22.88\00:26:24.31
there is
control issues going on,
00:26:24.35\00:26:26.55
either being control or
the need to control another.
00:26:26.58\00:26:30.55
As Christians we have to
think about how to say no
00:26:30.59\00:26:33.86
instead of yes all the time.
00:26:33.89\00:26:35.42
Sometimes we just
have to practice that
00:26:35.46\00:26:37.69
because idolatry
can come into place,
00:26:37.73\00:26:40.43
idolatry is putting
another person in place of God.
00:26:40.46\00:26:44.57
Yeah. Ahead of God.
00:26:44.60\00:26:48.07
Talked about awareness,
let see here change happens,
00:26:48.10\00:26:51.87
I like this, David,
you said change happens
00:26:51.91\00:26:55.81
when God is the source of love.
00:26:55.84\00:26:58.21
So we really need
to move to scripture.
00:26:58.25\00:27:01.95
Check for abuse as
one of the first steps
00:27:01.98\00:27:04.62
that we need to be going to,
00:27:04.65\00:27:06.49
emotion abuse, physical abuse,
00:27:06.52\00:27:08.92
continued to educate
00:27:08.96\00:27:10.29
what a healthy
relationship looks like,
00:27:10.33\00:27:12.23
and also the need to
bring the family origin
00:27:12.26\00:27:14.30
into the picture to see,
00:27:14.33\00:27:16.67
well, okay,
00:27:16.70\00:27:18.03
so what are the
roots of some of this
00:27:18.07\00:27:19.40
or some of this model.
00:27:19.43\00:27:20.77
Was this the way it was,
00:27:20.80\00:27:22.14
was this the
pattern that's coming down
00:27:22.17\00:27:23.51
and a genogram
could be a wonderful tool
00:27:23.54\00:27:25.04
for this type of awareness.
00:27:25.07\00:27:27.48
And also we can't ever
underestimate support groups,
00:27:27.51\00:27:31.81
support groups are wonderful.
00:27:31.85\00:27:33.31
So here's the promise for
Laura from Isaiah 43:19 it says,
00:27:33.35\00:27:37.45
"Behold, I am doing a new thing,
00:27:37.49\00:27:39.59
now it springs
forth, you not perceive it.
00:27:39.62\00:27:42.26
I will make a
way in the wilderness
00:27:42.29\00:27:44.56
and rivers in the desert."
00:27:44.59\00:27:45.93
Thank you for joining us
00:27:45.96\00:27:47.86
for this program A
Multitude of Counselors.
00:27:47.90\00:27:50.83
If you need
help, cry out to Jesus
00:27:50.87\00:27:53.34
and find a good
Christian counselor,
00:27:53.37\00:27:54.87
and hope to see you next time.
00:27:54.90\00:27:56.44
May God bless you abundantly.
00:27:56.47\00:27:58.01