Welcome to a
Multitude of Counselors.
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We're so glad you
came to our program today.
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We're gonna be talking
about mental health issues
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which is what we
do on this program
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and we talk about solutions
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and how God can helps
us to become healthier.
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I've got my illustrious
treatment team here today.
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I've got Paul
Coneff, he is from Texas,
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he is a marriage
and family therapist
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by training.
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But he also has a prayer
and discipleship ministry
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called ''Straight 2 the Heart''
and through that ministry,
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he ministers to people
that are struggling with loss,
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trauma, addictions, and
he points them to the Cross
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in the most really
beautiful and redemptive way.
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We've also got
Shelly Wiggins from Michigan
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and she runs a
private practice called...
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Driftwood...
"Driftwood Counseling.''
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And she is very, very broad
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in what she does
through that practice,
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but she likes to do things
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to focus on things
like addictions, anxiety,
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and recovery from abuse.
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And she uses not
only talk therapy,
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traditional talk
therapy but also equine therapy,
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working with horses
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and we're gonna be talking
about that during the show.
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We've also got Nivischi Edwards.
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Dr. Nivischi is a private,
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virtual private
practice counselor.
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She has, she teaches
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at Southern
Adventist University,
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she's an inspiring
author and she likes to focus
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on developing good relationships
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even relationship,
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good
relationship with your self,
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because after all we have
a relation with ourselves,
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so she is a relationship expert.
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We also have my
co-host, Rob Davidson.
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He works with me as a
private practice counselor
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through Abide Network.
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He is from the DC
area and one of the things
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that's really close to my heart
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that Rob likes to
specialized in is,
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he helps man built
biblical manhood integrity
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and learn how to
be servant leaders.
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I'm so thankful for that.
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Today, we're going to be
talking about eating disorders.
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Eating disorders by definition
are not surprisingly disorders
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that have to do with eating.
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But there are three
main eating disorders
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in diagnostic manual
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and I'm just
gonna give those briefly
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and with the brief description
of what they look like.
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First of all, there is Anorexia.
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Anorexia is
characterized by underweight.
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Person has to be, I
believe it is 15% underweight
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to qualify to be anorexic.
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They must be unduly
focused on food and diet
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and figure and weight
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and their
self-esteem in particulars
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is unduly tied to those things.
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Bulimia is the
same in that regard,
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the self worth is
unduly tied to weight.
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However, people with
bulimia are not underweight,
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they are typically normal weight
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or a little higher sometimes
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and they engage in
binging and purging.
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Binge eating disorder
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is the basically the
binging without the purging
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and binge eating
disorder is not surprisingly
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the most common of
the eating disorders.
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The prevalence
of eating disorders,
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there's a very interesting
question from my study,
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most eating disorders are
found in wealthy countries.
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It's kind of a
rich man's disease.
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It tends to be that in
the places in the world
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where people ever
have a scarcity of food,
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they don't mess
with food, you know,
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they have this kind of
sense that it's sacred somehow.
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And it's interesting
because women are of course
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much more inclined
toward eating disorders.
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Here is a little
illustration about little graph.
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So what's the prognosis?
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Well, all eating
disorders are treatable
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and they do
respond to treatment.
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But I want to
insert a caveat here
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and that is that
when an individual
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has what we call
ego-syntonic disorder,
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that means a disorder
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if that is in sync with the ego,
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it feels good to them
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as opposed to an
ego-dystonic disorder
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which they don't like to have.
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This person actually
enjoys having that disorder.
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And anorexia is
just such a disorder
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and people with anorexia
tend to like to be underweight,
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even though they don't
consider themselves underweight,
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because they have a
distorted body image.
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And so it can be
difficult to treat
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someone who doesn't
dislike their illness.
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So it's going to
be very challenging
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but I want to give
a praise report here.
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I'm sort of
recovered person with anorexia.
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I had anorexia when I was 19.
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My mother sent me to a
couple of different counselors.
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One of them told
me, I scared him,
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was really interesting.
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But anyway, I got
passed it and God healed me
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so even though for
that period of time
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I really clung to my disorder.
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Ultimately, I was
freed and thank God for that.
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So the treatments
include of course, counseling,
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particular group
therapy, psycho education.
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Sometimes meditation can take
the edge off the urge to binge,
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and of course, lifestyle can
improve brain chemistry as well
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and equine therapy.
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So let's talk about
equine therapy, Shelly?
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Where I find out
about equine therapy
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is from doing
some extra training
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at Remuda Ranch in Arizona,
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actually they
locate in Wickenburg.
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And they did 20
years of data research
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with the treatment that
they were doing for adolescence
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and women in their mid 20s.
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They found that
the team approach
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that included family therapy,
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a faith portion of
their treatment plan
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and the use of equine therapy
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was what got them
the greatest outcome.
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So can you define
equine therapy for us?
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Yes, it's equine
assisted growth and learning.
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What's an equine?
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An equine is
equest, which means horse.
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So working with
horses and people together.
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I guess the
easiest and quickest way
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to explain it is
a horse never lies,
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it functions like a
mirror to a person's emotions.
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And every time we
do these sessions,
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you would think that we
handed the script to the horse
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on how to respond
to a certain client
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or patience disorder.
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It is phenomenal how awesome God
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and His creation
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and how He has
created this particular animal
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to serve us if
we'll spend the time.
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So you talked
about Remuda Ranch.
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And by the way,
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I've heard they've the
best treatment cutting edge
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but you do equine
therapist yourself, right?
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Yeah, the model
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that I'm certified
in this called Eagala,
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which means equine
assisted growth and learning.
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So it doesn't always have
to be just psycho therapy,
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some people come
and do like a retreat,
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a leadership team
building, you know,
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like the old ropes course
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that can do different
activities with horses.
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I've done an
eating disorder group
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where the entire group is
there working with the horses.
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It's just really a
phenomenal modality.
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I have worked with a patient
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who is struggling with anorexia,
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and she was
pretty much non-verbal
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for the first four
months and I thought you know...
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What do you mean
non-verbal? She wouldn't talk?
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We would sit for 45 minutes
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and I'd ask her few
questions now and then,
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embrace that beauty of silence
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as we know as counselors
sometimes that time happens
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and we don't always
have to talk and feel the air
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but she was literally
silent and I thought, you know,
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I can't keep taking her money.
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We're just sitting
here and I'm thinking,
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what am I doing to help her?
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Wow.
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And it was one of those
amazing moments of she said,
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you know, "Thank
you for being patient."
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Wow. "And just being with me."
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And here you
were feeling guilty.
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Yeah, I was thinking,
I've to produce something or,
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you know, do something, right.
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And we did just a few
sessions of equine therapy
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and I'll never forget she
was just brushing the horse
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and then all of a
sudden she just started to sob.
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Oh, that's amazing. It's
a very powerful modality.
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It's nothing like new agey
voo-voo that kind of stuff.
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Lot of people ask me,
you know, as a Christian,
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"What are you
doing dabbling in this?"
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The way I look at it is...
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Oh, what's
airy-fairy about a horse.
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Nothing, that's
why I'm bringing it up
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The Bible talks about horses.
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Yeah, I think the
most phenomenal part of it
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like I said is
a horse can't lie.
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They meet you
right where you're at.
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And they sense what's going on,
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if you need
space, they stay away.
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Yeah.
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If you've too much
going on, this was a...
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I'll share one more quick story.
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There was a girl
who had not talked
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about the
traumatic death of her father
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in over five years.
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And we had done in the office
cognitive behavioral therapy,
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and she was just, you know,
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being light
hearted and just giggly
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about a whole bunch of
things going on in high school.
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And weren't ever getting to it,
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so we go out to the ranch,
one session, one session only
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and the horse could not
stand to be in her presence
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and it busted through the fence.
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Because she was being so fake?
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No, what we kind of concluded
was that she wasn't ready
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and that horse
picked up on the fact that,
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"I'm not ready,
I'm out of here."
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And that was kind of
what she was doing in therapy
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is avoiding, avoiding, avoiding.
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And then the horse avoided her.
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Yeah. That's interesting.
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It was really quite phenomenal.
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Yeah, I used to
ride horses as a child
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and then I always told,
"They'll know if you're afraid.
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They'll know what
you're feeling in that moment."
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So they are highly sensitive
animals is what you're saying
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that our reflectors
become reflectors of the client
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and help the client,
kind of see their own emotions
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projected on to a
screen so to speak.
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If people want to know more
about this particular modality,
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they can go to eagala.org.
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It's G-A-L-A...
00:10:38.67\00:10:40.87
Yeah.
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Egala.org and it tells
you whole lot more about it.
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Yeah, I understand that they're
working with equine therapy
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with the young
people with addictions too,
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isn't that the case?
00:10:50.91\00:10:52.45
So it's a very broad
application for that therapy.
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Yeah.
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And you know, didn't God
give us animals for purpose.
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I mean if you think about
it, he could have created us,
00:11:00.42\00:11:02.76
in His image there
in the Garden of Eden
00:11:02.79\00:11:04.33
with just trees
and flowers and fruits
00:11:04.36\00:11:06.13
and all kinds of
nice stuff and no animals.
00:11:06.16\00:11:08.13
Yeah. But what did He do?
00:11:08.16\00:11:10.23
He created us in
the midst of this whole,
00:11:10.27\00:11:13.84
all these other species
and what did He do that for?
00:11:13.87\00:11:18.47
For our enjoyment
and in a fallen world
00:11:18.51\00:11:22.08
for our healing.
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You know, another
metaphor that we use
00:11:23.48\00:11:25.78
when people are ready to
include the faith process
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is just the concept that
a horse is a prey animal.
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Okay, they are
worried about somebody...
00:11:33.79\00:11:35.69
Preying upon them.
00:11:35.72\00:11:37.06
Yes, so even though they are
large and majestic creatures,
00:11:37.09\00:11:43.06
when a client gets to realize
that they are not a threat,
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that they are, they
can be a modality of change
00:11:46.94\00:11:49.77
and progress.
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When the client realizes
that the horse himself...
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Can carry their burden.
Oh, I see what you are saying.
00:11:54.51\00:11:57.28
Okay, a horse is built to carry.
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I say, but what, can
you connect that to the fact
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that the horses are
prey animals as you said?
00:12:02.32\00:12:05.09
Do they feel for the horse,
00:12:05.12\00:12:07.06
because the horse has
fears and threats of its own?
00:12:07.09\00:12:10.26
Yes. Yeah, okay.
00:12:10.29\00:12:11.63
That was what I
was wondering. Yeah.
00:12:11.66\00:12:13.70
A lot of times people
are afraid of the horse.
00:12:13.73\00:12:16.16
But the horse is
just afraid of us
00:12:16.20\00:12:19.20
and it's about
their rapport building.
00:12:19.23\00:12:20.77
We talk a lot
about as counselors that,
00:12:20.80\00:12:22.84
if you don't have the
rapport and that connection,
00:12:22.87\00:12:25.27
therapy doesn't work.
00:12:25.31\00:12:26.84
Well, it's the same thing
00:12:26.88\00:12:28.21
when they're out
working with the horse
00:12:28.24\00:12:29.91
if they don't
give that opportunity
00:12:29.94\00:12:31.61
to reach out and connect.
00:12:31.65\00:12:35.28
But it's more tactile, you know,
00:12:35.32\00:12:37.25
they can just be brushing
00:12:37.29\00:12:38.75
and there is not a lot of verbal
00:12:38.79\00:12:40.92
that a client has to engage in
00:12:40.96\00:12:43.22
and there's a lot of
processing going on underneath.
00:12:43.26\00:12:45.76
That's powerful.
00:12:45.79\00:12:47.13
So the reason why
this modality works well
00:12:47.16\00:12:49.66
for eating disorders
is what specifically.
00:12:49.70\00:12:53.80
Well, you can't hide from it.
00:12:53.84\00:12:58.01
I think the way relationship
play out, for example,
00:12:58.04\00:13:04.18
in anorexic type behavior
00:13:04.21\00:13:06.48
is going to be more
like pushing away, okay.
00:13:06.51\00:13:10.62
With bulimia, we
see more of, you know,
00:13:10.65\00:13:14.99
I'm gonna pull in
a relationship fast,
00:13:15.02\00:13:16.59
but then I'm gonna
push it away afterwards.
00:13:16.62\00:13:18.96
You know, and so we
look at their relationship
00:13:18.99\00:13:21.36
and how they are
reacting to the horse
00:13:21.40\00:13:23.16
and with the horse.
00:13:23.20\00:13:24.53
And we get them to kind
of apply that to themselves.
00:13:24.57\00:13:28.10
Do you think that eating
disorders aren't necessarily
00:13:28.14\00:13:31.84
the results of
suppressing emotion?
00:13:31.87\00:13:34.58
You think there's a lot of that
00:13:34.61\00:13:35.94
in the development
of an eating disorder?
00:13:35.98\00:13:38.08
I know for me,
that was the case,
00:13:38.11\00:13:39.75
I didn't know how to
process all my many emotions,
00:13:39.78\00:13:43.39
and really anorexia
for me was a program
00:13:43.42\00:13:48.02
where I could shrink myself down
00:13:48.06\00:13:49.86
and my life down
to one simple thing.
00:13:49.89\00:13:51.53
I only had one goal,
00:13:51.56\00:13:52.89
I didn't have to
face all the issues,
00:13:52.93\00:13:54.86
relationships,
life purpose, you know,
00:13:54.90\00:13:58.63
being content with who
I'm, content with my body.
00:13:58.67\00:14:01.80
I didn't have to
deal with any of that,
00:14:01.84\00:14:03.24
all I have to do is lose weight.
00:14:03.27\00:14:05.07
My goal, my life was
boiled down to one simple thing.
00:14:05.11\00:14:07.64
It was one thing
you could control.
00:14:07.68\00:14:09.54
So it was a way,
exactly it was a control issue
00:14:09.58\00:14:11.51
and it was a way of
blocking off my emotions
00:14:11.55\00:14:14.65
and what I was
facing as a young adult
00:14:14.68\00:14:17.09
trying to figure out
where I belong in this world,
00:14:17.12\00:14:19.39
you know, which
was a huge question.
00:14:19.42\00:14:21.26
I really think
that at that age range
00:14:21.29\00:14:23.36
from like 17 to like
24 is a very vulnerable.
00:14:23.39\00:14:28.10
Would you agree
with that, Nivischi?
00:14:28.13\00:14:29.46
Absolutely, the
client that I've seen
00:14:29.50\00:14:30.83
who struggled
with eating disorder,
00:14:30.87\00:14:32.33
the females in particular.
00:14:32.37\00:14:34.44
It's been I'm
struggling with relationships
00:14:34.47\00:14:37.34
and other areas of my life.
00:14:37.37\00:14:39.07
I don't know how
to sort them through.
00:14:39.11\00:14:41.21
But I can manage
this relationship
00:14:41.24\00:14:43.75
here with the food.
00:14:43.78\00:14:45.15
Yes, exactly it's a
way of simplifying life
00:14:45.18\00:14:48.75
to where you don't have
to deal with all the stuff
00:14:48.78\00:14:50.35
and so, you know,
connecting with an animal
00:14:50.39\00:14:52.69
would perhaps give
you a sense of release
00:14:52.72\00:14:55.96
to where you
could start to process
00:14:55.99\00:14:57.33
those difficult emotions.
00:14:57.36\00:14:58.69
Sometimes we'll give
client a piece of chalk
00:14:58.73\00:15:01.36
and they'll write their emotions
00:15:01.40\00:15:03.20
or their burdens,
00:15:03.23\00:15:04.57
the things that they
need to leave with the horse
00:15:04.60\00:15:07.40
and then they'll
the watch the horse
00:15:07.44\00:15:08.84
go back out to pasture.
00:15:08.87\00:15:10.21
Oh, that's powerful.
00:15:10.24\00:15:12.47
Another really
interesting difference
00:15:12.51\00:15:14.91
between anorexia and bulimia
00:15:14.94\00:15:17.31
is anorexia tends
to be more towards
00:15:17.35\00:15:20.08
wanting to control emotions
00:15:20.12\00:15:23.28
and bulimia leans
more towards body image.
00:15:23.32\00:15:26.62
Not accepting of how
God has created you so.
00:15:26.65\00:15:32.33
It's really crazy and
toxic how in western culture
00:15:32.36\00:15:36.90
the things that are
coming through the media
00:15:36.93\00:15:39.37
about women are
two basic things,
00:15:39.40\00:15:41.67
be thin and food, you know,
00:15:41.70\00:15:43.91
we're constantly
bombarded with images of food
00:15:43.94\00:15:46.98
and drawn into like
sensual longing as a result of.
00:15:47.01\00:15:50.81
If you watch
television, the commercials
00:15:50.85\00:15:52.98
are all about
food, sex and violence.
00:15:53.01\00:15:56.92
Or the programming really is,
00:15:56.95\00:15:58.85
because it's all
lower brain stuff,
00:15:58.89\00:16:00.39
because there is
so much competition
00:16:00.42\00:16:02.59
for watchers and viewers
00:16:02.62\00:16:04.19
that they have to get
those lower brain messages in
00:16:04.23\00:16:06.66
at closer and
closer intervals so that...
00:16:06.70\00:16:10.77
and because the lower
brain engages more quickly
00:16:10.80\00:16:13.27
than the higher brain.
00:16:13.30\00:16:14.64
So we're seeing more and
more of that kind of thing.
00:16:14.67\00:16:16.10
So we have constant
bombardment with food images
00:16:16.14\00:16:19.27
and with women
needing to be, you know,
00:16:19.31\00:16:21.54
thin or having
just a perfect figure.
00:16:21.58\00:16:23.45
Do you work
with eating disorders
00:16:23.48\00:16:25.45
with your program
that you have, Paul?
00:16:25.48\00:16:27.22
Yeah, we had one
girl that I had known...
00:16:27.25\00:16:28.98
her parents were involved
and I think it was about,
00:16:29.02\00:16:30.92
partly about control
but she have been teased
00:16:30.95\00:16:33.19
and so her
solution was being teased,
00:16:33.22\00:16:35.26
she interpreted as being fat.
00:16:35.29\00:16:37.63
It wasn't an abuse
00:16:37.66\00:16:38.99
but they just had a
nickname for her Kelly Belly
00:16:39.03\00:16:41.00
and so she interpreted on fat,
00:16:41.03\00:16:42.93
I believe she said,
"Now, I'm gonna make sure,
00:16:42.96\00:16:45.23
I'm not fat, I'm rejected,
00:16:45.27\00:16:47.54
my parents
aren't in the picture,
00:16:47.57\00:16:48.90
I'm gonna make sure."
00:16:48.94\00:16:50.27
So she ended up being anorexic
and so and at to the point
00:16:50.31\00:16:54.24
where she was sick
of decide her food,
00:16:54.28\00:16:55.61
she live with her grandmother,
00:16:55.64\00:16:56.98
she didn't have
money for, you know,
00:16:57.01\00:16:58.45
send her to an
expensive treatment program.
00:16:58.48\00:17:00.02
So we're able to pray with her,
00:17:00.05\00:17:01.68
address some of
those negative thoughts,
00:17:01.72\00:17:03.35
she was able to
get some healing,
00:17:03.39\00:17:05.02
do some forgiving and she
was able to get some freedom.
00:17:05.05\00:17:07.49
That's powerful.
00:17:07.52\00:17:08.96
I love the horse
ministry, that's very,
00:17:08.99\00:17:11.53
it's a very powerful
holistic component too...
00:17:11.56\00:17:15.20
Well, let's look at our
presenting problem here.
00:17:15.23\00:17:17.30
Go ahead, Rob, and
why don't you read that?
00:17:17.33\00:17:19.03
Already.
00:17:19.07\00:17:20.40
22 year old, single an
Asian American, Blanche
00:17:20.44\00:17:24.07
comes to the session
swimming in a long dress,
00:17:24.11\00:17:27.31
thick sweater and boots.
00:17:27.34\00:17:29.08
Her wealthy mother and
father have insisted on her
00:17:29.11\00:17:31.55
attending counseling
00:17:31.58\00:17:32.95
and are paying for the sessions.
00:17:32.98\00:17:34.75
Blanche is
friendly and engaging,
00:17:34.78\00:17:36.72
willing to banter
about various topics,
00:17:36.75\00:17:38.99
particularly religion.
00:17:39.02\00:17:40.86
She is a recent convert
00:17:40.89\00:17:42.22
to the
Seventh-day Adventist church
00:17:42.26\00:17:44.06
and loves to talk
about spiritual things.
00:17:44.09\00:17:46.59
Because Blanche's
mother has indicated
00:17:46.63\00:17:48.36
that Blanche is under eating
00:17:48.40\00:17:49.96
and weighs only 95
pounds at 5 foot 6,
00:17:50.00\00:17:53.30
you broach the topic.
00:17:53.34\00:17:55.07
Blanche cheerfully says,
00:17:55.10\00:17:56.44
she eats huge piles
of food at every meal.
00:17:56.47\00:17:59.07
You ask her, if she
think she is underweight
00:17:59.11\00:18:01.31
and she says, "No."
00:18:01.34\00:18:02.68
That she is healthy.
How do you help Blanche?
00:18:02.71\00:18:06.21
We have to go with a
treatment team approach.
00:18:06.25\00:18:10.72
It's not just one counselor.
00:18:10.75\00:18:12.99
When we're dealing
with eating disorders
00:18:13.02\00:18:14.62
especially when we get
into those dangerous zones
00:18:14.66\00:18:17.43
where like with bulimia
00:18:17.46\00:18:18.99
the electrolytes
are all thrown off,
00:18:19.03\00:18:20.80
her potassium is off.
00:18:20.83\00:18:22.50
You can't look at a person
00:18:22.53\00:18:23.87
and see that those
things are happening.
00:18:23.90\00:18:25.93
Anorexia, the brain shrinks.
00:18:25.97\00:18:27.74
So depression is prevalent...
00:18:27.77\00:18:29.10
That's right.
00:18:29.14\00:18:30.47
So we really need
a team, we need a MD,
00:18:30.51\00:18:32.84
we need a registered
dietician, family therapy,
00:18:32.87\00:18:36.91
psychiatry sometimes, and
then the individual therapy.
00:18:36.95\00:18:40.12
So it can become
very expensive, very fast.
00:18:40.15\00:18:44.85
But if you're gonna be
the individual counselor,
00:18:44.89\00:18:47.06
you need to draw
in these other people
00:18:47.09\00:18:49.42
as a part of the wheel.
00:18:49.46\00:18:51.23
And it's worth
it, given the fact
00:18:51.26\00:18:53.46
that 10% of the people
with anorexia end up dying,
00:18:53.50\00:18:56.77
it's the most,
00:18:56.80\00:18:58.40
often fatal psychiatric
disorder so it's worth...
00:18:58.43\00:19:03.27
I mean, what would
you want to have spend
00:19:03.30\00:19:04.94
if the person does pass away.
00:19:04.97\00:19:06.61
So how tragic is that? Right.
00:19:06.64\00:19:08.58
I have a question,
if a client comes to us
00:19:08.61\00:19:11.21
and we detect that
something like this is going on,
00:19:11.25\00:19:14.48
what would be to,
00:19:14.52\00:19:15.85
how do we get them involved
in the team treatment mode
00:19:15.88\00:19:18.92
that you are talking about.
00:19:18.95\00:19:20.29
Is this something
that's in patient?
00:19:20.32\00:19:22.72
How to out patient?
00:19:22.76\00:19:24.49
Number one, I have them
go to their primary care
00:19:24.53\00:19:28.13
and get a baseline
physical to start somewhere.
00:19:28.16\00:19:31.17
You know, electrolytes,
potassium, there's, you know,
00:19:31.20\00:19:35.24
and to have an idea
of a doctor in your area
00:19:35.27\00:19:38.37
that has some
extra training in this.
00:19:38.41\00:19:41.21
Not every primary care
is not gonna, you know,
00:19:41.24\00:19:43.48
have the thousands
vessels attached to treat this.
00:19:43.51\00:19:46.31
Right.
00:19:46.35\00:19:47.68
But a registered
dietician for the accountability
00:19:47.72\00:19:49.98
in regards to the food because
when you're doing the therapy
00:19:50.02\00:19:53.46
you can't really
be the case manager.
00:19:53.49\00:19:57.33
But in one side of
it, you kind have to.
00:19:57.36\00:20:00.66
But if you're wanting
to do just the therapy,
00:20:00.70\00:20:04.03
get a family session in.
00:20:04.07\00:20:06.47
There's dynamics
that started at the table
00:20:06.50\00:20:10.41
around the issue of food,
00:20:10.44\00:20:11.77
or like you mentioned that
girl got a pet name somehow
00:20:11.81\00:20:16.68
and then that
snowboarded from there.
00:20:16.71\00:20:20.38
Do you think
recognizing the impact
00:20:20.42\00:20:24.19
that the disorder is
having on your family
00:20:24.22\00:20:26.49
and seeing how deeply they care
00:20:26.52\00:20:28.26
and kind of almost an
intervention kind of context
00:20:28.29\00:20:31.13
or bringing them into
counseling is helpful?
00:20:31.16\00:20:33.96
Well, there was
another interesting part
00:20:34.00\00:20:36.40
of on the research that
was done at Remuda Ranch.
00:20:36.43\00:20:39.00
They did what was
called Family Week.
00:20:39.03\00:20:41.80
And so they would have
like a circle of families
00:20:41.84\00:20:45.51
around a family
00:20:45.54\00:20:47.84
watching the therapy take place.
00:20:47.88\00:20:49.78
Wow. For a truth
and love session.
00:20:49.81\00:20:52.48
So there is a
place for truth and love.
00:20:52.51\00:20:55.78
How is this
impacting us as a family?
00:20:55.82\00:20:59.09
You know, just like you would
have an addiction intervention,
00:20:59.12\00:21:02.09
you know...
00:21:02.12\00:21:03.46
So the families would all watch
00:21:03.49\00:21:04.86
the one family that
was having the therapy
00:21:04.89\00:21:06.76
and they see them
working through some of things
00:21:06.80\00:21:08.70
that probably
laid the foundation
00:21:08.73\00:21:10.77
for the eating
disorder to begin with.
00:21:10.80\00:21:12.30
Now that's sounds
00:21:12.33\00:21:13.67
like a lot of
accountability on the family.
00:21:13.70\00:21:16.14
I would be intimidated
that people would, you know,
00:21:16.17\00:21:18.97
say I was
neurotic and co-dependent.
00:21:19.01\00:21:21.41
Yeah, but
they've done, you know,
00:21:21.44\00:21:23.11
the 20 years
worth of the research
00:21:23.14\00:21:24.95
and have the highest recovery.
00:21:24.98\00:21:28.62
I'm just curious as
with someone like Blanche,
00:21:28.65\00:21:31.15
she seems to be 95 pounds
5 foot, 6 inches and says,
00:21:31.19\00:21:34.82
I eat lot, I'm fine.
00:21:34.86\00:21:36.59
What she's eating? I'm
fine, I've got no problem.
00:21:36.62\00:21:39.59
So and she says,
she's healthy too.
00:21:39.63\00:21:41.13
How do you help
someone like that
00:21:41.16\00:21:43.06
to see that there is a problem?
00:21:43.10\00:21:45.67
Okay, that's
what psycho education
00:21:45.70\00:21:47.04
you talked about,
Jennifer, the psycho education
00:21:47.07\00:21:48.94
is a part of the
treatment process also.
00:21:48.97\00:21:51.14
And educating them
and it's a slow process
00:21:51.17\00:21:54.21
and if I think that
everything is "normal",
00:21:54.24\00:21:57.55
then it's hard for me to
see anything other than what is.
00:21:57.58\00:22:01.18
You know, and as he did
said that physical examine
00:22:01.22\00:22:03.89
and they see everything is off
and there is a serious problem.
00:22:03.92\00:22:06.89
Do they tend to accept
that or they rationalize away?
00:22:06.92\00:22:09.59
It depends.
00:22:09.62\00:22:10.96
Yeah, depends on the client
but that's a part of our goal,
00:22:10.99\00:22:13.26
it's to help them
accept what is real
00:22:13.29\00:22:16.36
versus what they've
told themselves is true.
00:22:16.40\00:22:18.47
Let me share
from my own experience
00:22:18.50\00:22:19.90
'cause I don't know
if you figure this out
00:22:19.93\00:22:21.27
but Blanche was me.
00:22:21.30\00:22:22.64
I was 5 foot 6 and 95 pound
and I was, believe it or not,
00:22:22.67\00:22:27.01
dating my husband at this time
00:22:27.04\00:22:29.08
and my mother was
very worried about me.
00:22:29.11\00:22:31.58
She would pressure me,
00:22:31.61\00:22:32.95
so her psycho
education was ineffective.
00:22:32.98\00:22:35.75
It was just really all
about how worried she was.
00:22:35.78\00:22:39.59
My husband on the other hand
took a more gracious approach
00:22:39.62\00:22:43.02
'cause he had been
through anorexia himself
00:22:43.06\00:22:45.96
before he became a Christian.
00:22:45.99\00:22:47.80
He got involved
in eastern religions
00:22:47.83\00:22:49.36
that emphasized very
rigid diet approaches
00:22:49.40\00:22:53.84
and he ended up
starving down to like 120 pounds
00:22:53.87\00:22:56.60
and he is like big
frame 5 foot 8 or something.
00:22:56.64\00:22:59.67
So he went through it
00:22:59.71\00:23:01.11
and he had this like
caring approach to me
00:23:01.14\00:23:03.58
and so he would drop things,
00:23:03.61\00:23:05.61
he would say things like
I had in the middle of me,
00:23:05.65\00:23:09.58
you know,
struggling with this thing,
00:23:09.62\00:23:11.05
I had sore appear on
my leg out of nowhere.
00:23:11.09\00:23:14.59
A black sore with
bumps, it was disgusting.
00:23:14.62\00:23:17.16
And I mentioned it
to him and he said, oh,
00:23:17.19\00:23:19.49
that's because
you're not well nourished,
00:23:19.53\00:23:21.26
and your body can't fight it up.
00:23:21.30\00:23:22.63
But he didn't
like, "see", you know,
00:23:22.66\00:23:24.57
he was very gentle
00:23:24.60\00:23:26.13
and but very
matter of fact about it
00:23:26.17\00:23:27.94
and that kind of
thing did get through to me
00:23:27.97\00:23:30.37
and what finally happened
00:23:30.41\00:23:31.74
if you want to hear the
story is we did get married
00:23:31.77\00:23:34.41
and we moved to Montana
and he was a tree planter,
00:23:34.44\00:23:37.61
and I had to wash my
clothes in the creek,
00:23:37.65\00:23:40.05
I had to cook over a fire.
00:23:40.08\00:23:42.85
I had to carry trees
up to him on the mountains
00:23:42.88\00:23:46.35
in these backpacks and
I started to realize hey,
00:23:46.39\00:23:50.03
I like the idea of being strong.
00:23:50.06\00:23:51.73
I'm over this being
all skinny and frail.
00:23:51.76\00:23:53.76
I like being strong
00:23:53.80\00:23:55.13
and I busted out of
it, it was a miracle.
00:23:55.16\00:23:56.73
But I think it was a lot of,
00:23:56.77\00:23:58.10
it was feeling the
security of that relationship.
00:23:58.13\00:24:00.74
That love and support.
Love, yeah, exactly, exactly.
00:24:00.77\00:24:03.47
So that's my story.
00:24:03.51\00:24:04.84
I don't know if
you guys figured it out
00:24:04.87\00:24:06.21
that I was Blanche but I
was, I'm not Asian though.
00:24:06.24\00:24:08.84
But go ahead as you could see.
00:24:08.88\00:24:11.21
But go ahead and give
us a quick recap here, Rob.
00:24:11.25\00:24:15.18
Okay, so we started
talking about equine therapy
00:24:15.22\00:24:18.95
and how Remuda Ranch
00:24:18.99\00:24:20.39
is not were you
work, is that correct?
00:24:20.42\00:24:22.46
Correct, I just went and
did some extra training there.
00:24:22.49\00:24:24.63
Yes, but that is one place
00:24:24.66\00:24:26.59
where individual could
get excellent treatment.
00:24:26.63\00:24:29.86
So equine therapy is
all about a team approach.
00:24:29.90\00:24:32.60
Bringing the family in,
bring faith into the picture
00:24:32.63\00:24:36.57
and send it around horses
00:24:36.60\00:24:38.37
because horses as
you say cannot lie.
00:24:38.41\00:24:40.94
They are very in tune
00:24:40.98\00:24:42.31
to what's going
on with an individual
00:24:42.34\00:24:43.68
and I could actually be
have a testimony about that
00:24:43.71\00:24:45.98
when I was younger and I
try to ride a horse myself
00:24:46.01\00:24:48.55
and I was afraid so
the horse just nudged me up
00:24:48.58\00:24:50.45
against the fence
and stepped on my foot
00:24:50.49\00:24:52.19
and said, "You are afraid,
00:24:52.22\00:24:53.72
I'm gonna put
you in your place."
00:24:53.76\00:24:56.19
So I know horses
are amazing creatures.
00:24:56.22\00:25:00.63
So you also mentioned eagala.org
00:25:00.66\00:25:05.13
and this is where an individual
can go to get information
00:25:05.17\00:25:08.67
and you also
mentioned that horse,
00:25:08.70\00:25:13.14
the therapy
there is very tactile,
00:25:13.17\00:25:15.88
which is much different
than counseling in the session.
00:25:15.91\00:25:19.28
And the horse actually
can act like the counselor
00:25:19.31\00:25:21.28
because this is the
safe place for the individual
00:25:21.32\00:25:23.82
to just sit
with and be accepted,
00:25:23.85\00:25:26.29
and this is what is
very important in counseling
00:25:26.32\00:25:28.02
is to accepted.
00:25:28.06\00:25:31.06
With anorexia
there is a control issue
00:25:31.09\00:25:33.06
that we've talked about,
control over the emotions
00:25:33.09\00:25:35.30
because in life there are
so much that's out of control
00:25:35.33\00:25:38.73
and this is one area
00:25:38.77\00:25:40.10
where an individual
can have some control.
00:25:40.14\00:25:42.94
And they can manage
their life stressors
00:25:42.97\00:25:45.21
through this one
modality which is food.
00:25:45.24\00:25:47.61
Bulimia on the other hand
is about focusing on body image
00:25:47.64\00:25:51.05
because body image
is, it's just so prevalent
00:25:51.08\00:25:54.58
in terms of what a
body should look like.
00:25:54.62\00:25:57.42
And we emphasized the treatment
approach must be holistic.
00:25:57.45\00:26:00.79
We're talking about
bringing the medical doctor
00:26:00.82\00:26:02.96
into the picture,
00:26:02.99\00:26:04.33
registered
dietician, family therapy,
00:26:04.36\00:26:06.76
individual therapy
and was there another?
00:26:06.80\00:26:09.66
Group. Group therapy, yes.
00:26:09.70\00:26:13.34
And what we can do
as individual counselors
00:26:13.37\00:26:16.47
is the psycho educational
piece is very important
00:26:16.50\00:26:19.41
and it's a slow process,
00:26:19.44\00:26:21.11
because
individuals are not always...
00:26:21.14\00:26:23.51
There's that aspect of denial,
and so as we can continue
00:26:23.55\00:26:27.52
to bring psycho
education into the picture,
00:26:27.55\00:26:30.19
we could be
probably piggybacking
00:26:30.22\00:26:32.22
on what our parents have
been telling us all along,
00:26:32.25\00:26:34.42
but maybe they will be
open to what we have to say now
00:26:34.46\00:26:37.46
as the professional.
00:26:37.49\00:26:39.86
Yeah, so on.
00:26:39.89\00:26:41.23
So the Lord tells
us, I want you to prosper
00:26:41.26\00:26:46.23
and be in health even
as your soul prospers.
00:26:46.27\00:26:49.90
And that's why we need to
deal with our emotional issues
00:26:49.94\00:26:52.91
because we can't truly prosper
00:26:52.94\00:26:55.11
and be healthy just
eating the right food
00:26:55.14\00:26:57.68
and getting enough exercise.
00:26:57.71\00:26:59.05
We've got to deal
with our emotional issues
00:26:59.08\00:27:00.55
and eating
disorders are good example
00:27:00.58\00:27:02.75
of what happens
when we don't adequately
00:27:02.78\00:27:07.29
and correctly
process our emotion.
00:27:07.32\00:27:09.39
So God has promised
us that he will give us,
00:27:09.42\00:27:13.70
he will strengthen us and
lead us with his right hand
00:27:13.73\00:27:16.70
and he has also told us that
perfect love cast out all fear.
00:27:16.73\00:27:20.77
Amen.
00:27:20.80\00:27:22.14
And so God is by our side,
willing and wanting to help us
00:27:22.17\00:27:25.91
through these
difficult passages.
00:27:25.94\00:27:27.54
If you know someone
with eating disorder,
00:27:27.58\00:27:29.34
if you yourself are struggling
with an eating disorder,
00:27:29.38\00:27:31.78
seek help first
and foremost from God
00:27:31.81\00:27:34.18
but don't hesitate to
get professional help as well
00:27:34.22\00:27:36.32
or group help
because it can help.
00:27:36.35\00:27:38.62
Thank you for joining us
on a Multitude of Counselors.
00:27:38.65\00:27:41.46
We do hope you will
join us for future programs.
00:27:41.49\00:27:44.96
And until then, I want you
to remember the love of God,
00:27:44.99\00:27:47.93
that He is the
healer and He says
00:27:47.96\00:27:49.96
that we should cast
all our cares on Him
00:27:50.00\00:27:52.53
because He cares for
us, that's 1 Peter 5:7.
00:27:52.57\00:27:57.34
May God bless you.
00:27:57.37\00:27:58.71