Welcome to A
Multitude of Counselors.
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We're so glad you came,
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this is a show
dedicated to understanding
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how we can have
better mental health,
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rooted and grounded in
timeless biblical principles.
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I'm so glad to
have my treatment team
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here with me today.
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I wanna
introduce them one by one.
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This is Christina
Cecotto, she's from Georgia.
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She is a Masters
in Social of License,
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Masters in Social Work
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and she works at
Wildwood Lifestyle Center.
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She likes to treat,
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as a mental health counselor
and she likes to treat anxiety,
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mood disorders and she also
kind of specializes in phobias
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which is so special
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because that's
one of the most common
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anxiety diagnosis, isn't it?
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So glad to have you here.
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And we have David Guerro.
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David is from Wisconsin.
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He is so many things, I
can hardly count them all.
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He's a pastor, a
chaplain, a life coach.
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He is a certified
biblical counselor
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and he runs a ministry
called Rekindle the Flame
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through which he gives seminars.
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So like what don't you do David,
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you're just a busy man
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and so I'm excited to
have you here as well.
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This is Paul Coneff.
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Paul is from Texas,
the great state of Texas.
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He is a marriage
and family therapist.
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He runs a prayer and
discipleship ministry
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called Straight 2 The Heart
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through which he
helps people through loss,
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recovery from abuse
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and addiction utilizing a method
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that he is developed
that puts people in contact
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with a crucified
Christ in an effort
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to dignify their suffering
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and make sense
of their suffering.
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Beautiful program.
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And my co-host Robert
Davidson, he's from the DC area.
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He's a private
practice counselor
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and he works with
me in abide counseling
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and that work.
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He is also a
private practice counselor
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and he has a
specialty, he does families
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and individuals and couples
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but he has kind of a
specialty in helping men
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develop biblical manhood
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and develop into servant leaders
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helping them
develop integrity which is,
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there is such a
need for that now
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because we've got this pandemic
of pornography addiction
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and so forth and so I'm
so glad you're doing that,
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I'm so glad each
and everyone of you
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are here with us today.
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Our topic today
is " Loneliness."
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We're gonna be
talking about a human problem
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at every show
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and today's human
problem is loneliness.
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I mean to give you some facts
about loneliness upfront here.
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First of all, a
definition of loneliness,
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very simple,
insufficient social connection
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and closed bonds
for optimal well being.
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The prevalence of
loneliness is hard to track
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because it's not
an official diagnosis.
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However, there
is a clinician in,
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from the University of
Chicago named John Cacioppo,
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who is considered
the dawn of loneliness
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in the mental health field.
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And he says that
loneliness is on the rise.
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Up from 20 % in the
80s to now 40 % today
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and he specializes in loneliness
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and really develops that,
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so apparently
loneliness is pandemic as well.
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What is the cause of loneliness?
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Well, I've mowed this over,
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it's not a whole
lot of research on it
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but what I believe is that
people have trouble bonding
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and developing relationships
when they grow up in homes,
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where they are not taught
that from the time they're born
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because you see
God has organized
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human development such
that we have opportunity
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after opportunity
to develop relationship
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first with mother and child
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and the brain is
literally formatted
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through that relationship
and then father and child
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and then often
siblings and then friends
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and at every phase we
learn better how to trust,
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how to love and be loved
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and that's how
God set up human life.
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Well, the tragedy is
that sometimes homes,
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they're designed
by God to be the place
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where we learn how
to love and be loved
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are so
compromised that people really
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either don't learn
that or learn the opposite.
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So I think the major
problem with loneliness
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or the contributor to it
is people have insufficient
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relational and bonding skills
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and they have not developed them
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so far in life and
they come into adulthood
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basically as children
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but really kind
of almost were soft
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because they've developed
bad habits of relating.
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But the prognosis is still good
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and what we're
gonna find on the show
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is whenever I talk
about the prognosis
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which simply means
how is this gonna pan out,
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is it curable or fixable.
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I'm always gonna say
that the prognosis is good
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because Jesus is a living savior
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and he's powerful
and able to heal us.
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And it says and I
think it's Psalm 131,
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correct me if I'm wrong,
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he heals all our diseases
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including our
relational and mental diseases.
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So loneliness is very curable
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and people can learn
how to love and be loved.
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What is the best
treatment for loneliness?
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I think from my research
that one of the best things
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that we can do is
encourage a person
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or if it's
ourselves, go to church.
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There's lots of research
on the benefits of church
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to people socially and
in terms of mental health
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and even physical health as
it attaches to those things.
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Now I know that there
are extremely toxic churches
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and some of them would
have the opposite effect
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but by and large,
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even factoring in
those toxic churches,
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church is good for people,
it's a great place to connect
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and you know, if
you think about it,
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you are really, if
you've had a bad family life,
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you're really part
of the family of God
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when you come to Church.
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So what have you guys
used with your clients
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and what has worked
for you in your search
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to connect with others?
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Do you wanna give me
some input at this point?
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You know, Jennifer.
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Just listening to what
you're saying is so true
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and one thing that
I often try to do is,
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try to help the person
make decisions concerning
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people that they know
that they could bond with
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and connecting with individuals
is very, very important.
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Secondly, is trying to find
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what is the cause
of the disconnect,
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what is the
cause of the loneliness
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and perhaps maybe certain events
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that are causing
this feeling of our not,
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of not having anyone around
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or feeling lonely
and then connecting,
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connecting with Christ
and connecting with others,
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are those things I
think are very important.
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Don't you find that when
people have had broken trust,
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a lot of times they're
very reluctant to trust again?
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And it's because
when they first trusted,
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they were children,
very naive, very vulnerable
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and they reason
in their child mind,
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will I trust it,
it was disastrous,
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I'll never trust again.
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But what I do is I try
to bring them from that
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to wait a minute,
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you don't have to trust like
you trusted as a child again.
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You can learn to
trust more intelligently
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because now you're an
adult and so let's work on that,
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how can you trust again
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'cause not trusting
anyone in and of itself
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is dangerous.
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We have to have
trust bonds to be healthy.
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What I would say too
is when trust is broken,
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it's easy to learn
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that the world isn't
safe and I can't trust.
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So I think healing
some of that brokenness
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would be important for me,
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you know, if their
belief system is I'm alone,
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I can't trust.
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I would wanna bring
him into Jesus story
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where he fulfilled prophecy
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in very
intentional specific ways.
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Like Isaiah 63 says,
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he would try the
one put us alone,
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of the people they
are be none with Him.
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He experienced
loneliness in the biggest way.
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And so he told His
disciples in the book of John,
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you're all gonna leave me alone.
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No, we won't.
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Yeah, you're going to,
it's a fulfillment of prophecy
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and then in the
Garden of Gethsemane,
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you know, here He is alone.
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He asked those closest
two and to be there for Him.
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He's invested all
of His time and energy
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and they're not there for him.
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So I find if I begin
connecting that person's story,
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a brokenness where
they learned not to trust
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which is a story and
then we begin praying
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and bringing their
story to Jesus story
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together in prayer,
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the Holy Spirit
starts doing some healing.
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What happens
there, do they just see
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that God knows how they feel?
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Is that a big
part of the therapeutic
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effect of that,
it's just knowing...
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Yeah, there is this
connect where they tend...
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we tend to think of Jesus,
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He died for our
sins, rose again,
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He'll forgive us
and that's true. Yeah.
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All of a sudden they see
that He was human like us
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and the big, the
big teaching moment
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sort of speak the
connection is wow!
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He knows what
it's like to be alone.
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He can identify with me,
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He can relate to me
and when that happens,
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something in their heart starts
to go, Oh, you understand,
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I can begin to trust you.
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And it's that something also
that they intended to interpret
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the betrayal of their
trust as a statement about them
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and when they see
that Jesus himself,
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God experienced
betrayal of trust,
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they realized, well,
good people get betrayed.
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I don't have to feel stigmatized
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by the fact that I was betrayed.
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You think that
might be part of it?
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Exactly.
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'Cause He's got
abandonment there,
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He's got betrayal, He's
got all these things happening
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and if it's a family
member, there He's on the cross,
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"My God, My God, why
have you forsaken me?"
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He's being tempted to
believe His Father's left Him.
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And so for me, I
found it just creates
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a heart to heart
connection with God
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and of course,
we're as counselors,
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we're part of that and
then as they get healing
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then they can begin
making those decisions
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like you brought out,
Jennifer, who can we trust,
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who is not trust worthy.
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Have you ever
had this experience
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where you tried to share
things like that with people
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and it draws a blank
and they can't really relate
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even though it
might be moving you
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and at times I've been moved
to tears talking about Jesus
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and His
sufferings and how it really
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dignifies their sufferings
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and so forth and I... and I
just see it drawing a blank.
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Do you have a way that you
get through to people like that?
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Well, what I do with
them as I'm talking with them,
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I'll often have His
story on a piece of paper
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where they can look at it,
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step by step from
Gethsemane to Calvary,
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so they've got something
tangible in front of them
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and then I invite them
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if we could
take that information
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and turn it into a
prayer because Jesus said,
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if you don't believe what I say,
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then do it and apply
and see what happens.
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So I'll invite them
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to pray Jesus's
story into their prayer,
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a simple prayer like, "Dear God,
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thank you that
Jesus suffered being alone
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and abandoned in the garden
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and betrayed and
tempted not to trust
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and connected with you so
He could take into His death
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on the cross, all
the ways I'm alone
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and I've learned
I can't trust others
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and then rise again to heal me
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and set me free and as
we do that over and over,
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what I find is, they
get a mind heart connection
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or if we're
gonna use a scripture,
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it's that new
covenant of mind and heart.
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But I wonder if
part of their ability
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to finally grasp it is
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that they develop a
relationship with you
00:11:06.93\00:11:09.80
and that's, you
know, one of the things
00:11:09.83\00:11:11.17
that counseling
really has going forward,
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is that there's
this delivery system
00:11:12.97\00:11:15.27
and counseling like a person
can need a blood transfusion
00:11:15.30\00:11:18.27
and you can have the
blood but they don't get it
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if you don't have a good
delivery system, a counseling,
00:11:20.54\00:11:22.54
if you know how to
develop a really strong
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or we call therapeutic
alliance with your client,
00:11:25.08\00:11:27.42
that's the delivery system
00:11:27.45\00:11:28.78
and sometimes
people will respond to you
00:11:28.82\00:11:31.79
in a way that they
can't yet respond to God
00:11:31.82\00:11:34.22
because it never
had a relationship yet.
00:11:34.26\00:11:36.06
They've never really...
00:11:36.09\00:11:37.43
and to try to relate to
someone invisible for someone
00:11:37.46\00:11:39.83
who's never had a
relationship, they just...
00:11:39.86\00:11:41.76
so maybe developing
a relationship with you
00:11:41.80\00:11:44.17
has been helpful in helping them
00:11:44.20\00:11:45.53
understand what you're
trying to convey to them.
00:11:45.57\00:11:46.90
I'm glad you bring it,
this is a critical part,
00:11:46.94\00:11:48.27
you know, we're
talking before how...
00:11:48.30\00:11:51.74
off screen where
that human relationship,
00:11:51.77\00:11:54.61
David is bringing out is a
critical part of the process
00:11:54.64\00:11:56.98
'cause as they
learn to trust you,
00:11:57.01\00:11:58.88
then they can learn to trust God
00:11:58.91\00:12:00.25
or trust somebody else.
00:12:00.28\00:12:01.62
So God is using us,
we're not the healers
00:12:01.65\00:12:03.82
but yet God
wants to use relation.
00:12:03.85\00:12:05.69
We're broken in relationship
00:12:05.72\00:12:07.06
and He wants to rebuild
us in healthy relationship.
00:12:07.09\00:12:09.62
So could our first step be,
00:12:09.66\00:12:11.46
when you're
counseling this individual
00:12:11.49\00:12:13.50
is somehow communicating
to them in the room
00:12:13.53\00:12:17.63
that I'm here for you
00:12:17.67\00:12:19.43
and then connecting with
them on that personal level
00:12:19.47\00:12:23.00
and perhaps the
blank you see in their face
00:12:23.04\00:12:24.84
is because they're
wondering, "Are you with me.
00:12:24.87\00:12:28.31
Do you understand
what I'm going through?"
00:12:28.34\00:12:30.15
And so you take in
the time to listen,
00:12:30.18\00:12:33.92
listening is very important.
00:12:33.95\00:12:35.48
In this world today,
00:12:35.52\00:12:36.99
we often have people who
crave someone to be there,
00:12:37.02\00:12:41.82
crave someone to
just listen to them
00:12:41.86\00:12:44.06
and if we can just take moments
in our counseling sessions
00:12:44.09\00:12:47.00
to just really listen
to people, I believe it,
00:12:47.03\00:12:49.60
you know, it draws them to us
00:12:49.63\00:12:51.43
and them we can
draw them to Christ.
00:12:51.47\00:12:52.80
Have you've ever
had the experience
00:12:52.83\00:12:54.17
where you're like
00:12:54.20\00:12:55.54
talking as there is
someone is talking to you
00:12:55.57\00:12:56.91
and maybe they're
just basically monologuing
00:12:56.94\00:12:59.17
and you're just listening
00:12:59.21\00:13:00.68
and they say that
you've helped them so much
00:13:00.71\00:13:02.48
and you can't for the
life of you figure out
00:13:02.51\00:13:04.21
what you said to
them or did or anything
00:13:04.25\00:13:07.08
but it was just so helpful
'cause you just listened.
00:13:07.12\00:13:09.08
They were able to
share their story with you.
00:13:09.12\00:13:10.72
And the greatest compliment
in a counseling session
00:13:10.75\00:13:12.92
at least from, you
know, from my experience,
00:13:12.95\00:13:14.89
in this of my
opinion is when someone says,
00:13:14.92\00:13:17.06
"Thank you for listening to me."
00:13:17.09\00:13:18.56
Yeah. All right.
00:13:18.59\00:13:19.96
And there have been times
00:13:20.00\00:13:21.63
when at the end of the
session the person will say,
00:13:21.66\00:13:25.57
" This is been fantastic,
00:13:25.60\00:13:26.97
I feel so much better
because you're here just,
00:13:27.00\00:13:30.31
just to listen to me."
00:13:30.34\00:13:32.01
And sometimes I
have to tell the client
00:13:32.04\00:13:35.41
that I want to hear your
story and I'm really interested.
00:13:35.44\00:13:41.75
And that active
listening part is so vital
00:13:41.78\00:13:44.75
in the very beginning
to develop that report,
00:13:44.79\00:13:46.96
so that they can continue to
go from trust to trust to trust.
00:13:46.99\00:13:50.13
I just wanna
say one thing, Jenn,
00:13:50.16\00:13:51.49
you said that going to
church in and of itself,
00:13:51.53\00:13:54.10
is therapeutic.
00:13:54.13\00:13:55.46
Not always.
00:13:55.50\00:13:56.83
That was my experience...
00:13:56.87\00:13:58.20
Oh, it was.
00:13:58.23\00:13:59.57
Because I came from a situation
00:13:59.60\00:14:00.94
where when I
started going to church
00:14:00.97\00:14:02.30
for the first
time in my adulthood,
00:14:02.34\00:14:04.81
I found
acceptance that the Lord know
00:14:04.84\00:14:07.24
that I needed to have.
00:14:07.28\00:14:08.91
Now it wasn't perfect
00:14:08.94\00:14:10.48
but it was a new feeling for me
00:14:10.51\00:14:12.31
and I would go
home feeling like,
00:14:12.35\00:14:13.88
I want to go back there
00:14:13.92\00:14:15.25
because I felt
like I was accepted
00:14:15.28\00:14:17.32
and then I got
hooked into a small group
00:14:17.35\00:14:19.55
and that small
group was even better
00:14:19.59\00:14:21.19
than the bigger Church at large.
00:14:21.22\00:14:22.92
So I can't say
enough about small groups
00:14:22.96\00:14:24.59
when it comes to
people who are lonely,
00:14:24.63\00:14:26.59
who need to have connection.
00:14:26.63\00:14:27.96
Amen and I tell
people look go to church
00:14:28.00\00:14:30.33
if you have a bad experience,
go to another church,
00:14:30.37\00:14:32.93
sometimes
there's a toxic church,
00:14:32.97\00:14:34.47
go somewhere else,
there are many churches
00:14:34.50\00:14:36.81
and if you have a
bad experience there,
00:14:36.84\00:14:38.31
go to another church and if
you have a bad experience there,
00:14:38.34\00:14:40.88
we need to talk,
00:14:40.91\00:14:42.24
you probably are
carrying something with you
00:14:42.28\00:14:44.18
to each situation but
that's fantastic, yeah.
00:14:44.21\00:14:47.08
What I've noticed is that
00:14:47.12\00:14:48.62
when people come to
Wildwood Lifestyle Center
00:14:48.65\00:14:51.09
where I work is that
their relationship of being
00:14:51.12\00:14:53.59
within that group,
00:14:53.62\00:14:55.52
I think it's about
20 people sometimes,
00:14:55.56\00:14:59.19
they really find healing just
by being in a group of people
00:14:59.23\00:15:03.13
who are there
for the same reason.
00:15:03.16\00:15:05.17
Yeah, don't they go through
it like a course or something,
00:15:05.20\00:15:07.64
that they are kind of a
team, it's kind of like...
00:15:07.67\00:15:09.94
Well, they attend all
the program together...
00:15:09.97\00:15:12.91
Like being on a
cruise, you know,
00:15:12.94\00:15:14.28
you're with the
same group of people
00:15:14.31\00:15:15.64
that you just met.
00:15:15.68\00:15:17.01
Yeah.
00:15:17.05\00:15:18.38
And you're saying
they develop a real bond.
00:15:18.41\00:15:19.75
Right and so just
simply from being...
00:15:19.78\00:15:21.12
developing those
friendships in the program
00:15:21.15\00:15:23.65
they find healing and
sometimes they've even overcome
00:15:23.69\00:15:26.29
whatever they're going through,
00:15:26.32\00:15:27.66
just simply
because they had friends
00:15:27.69\00:15:29.46
even within the
program and maybe many of them
00:15:29.49\00:15:31.66
didn't even attend counseling.
00:15:31.69\00:15:33.90
But they have voiced
that they find healing simply
00:15:33.93\00:15:36.30
from being in
that type of groups.
00:15:36.33\00:15:37.67
That's fantastic.
00:15:37.70\00:15:39.03
My aunt says too that
00:15:39.07\00:15:40.40
as they're
eating meals together,
00:15:40.44\00:15:41.77
going to that program together,
00:15:41.80\00:15:43.27
that they're
sharing their stories,
00:15:43.30\00:15:44.77
why are they there,
what's the brokenness
00:15:44.81\00:15:46.51
that brought
there and they go ah,
00:15:46.54\00:15:47.88
and maybe same a
brokenness maybe different
00:15:47.91\00:15:49.44
but what they
find is, I talk to you,
00:15:49.48\00:15:51.95
I hear your
story, I share my story,
00:15:51.98\00:15:54.38
there's a connection
and there's I think bonding.
00:15:54.42\00:15:55.75
Right, yeah.
00:15:55.78\00:15:57.12
What do you guys do to,
what have you done in your life
00:15:57.15\00:16:00.89
to help yourself
live in relationship
00:16:00.92\00:16:04.36
and come out of loneliness?
00:16:04.39\00:16:05.73
Does anybody have
a testimony about,
00:16:05.76\00:16:07.20
that you just kind of shared
00:16:07.23\00:16:08.90
but does anybody else
have a personal experience
00:16:08.93\00:16:12.83
in being isolated
and feeling lonely
00:16:12.87\00:16:15.60
and then finding fellowships?
00:16:15.64\00:16:17.31
Anybody have that?
00:16:17.34\00:16:18.74
That's willing to admit it.
00:16:18.77\00:16:20.18
Well, I grew up in a
home with eight kids.
00:16:20.21\00:16:22.28
There is a lot
of a surround but...
00:16:22.31\00:16:23.65
No loneliness there.
00:16:23.68\00:16:25.01
..but there is a
lot of brokenness,
00:16:25.05\00:16:26.38
a lot of separations,
00:16:26.41\00:16:27.75
my parents divorced so
I grew up in a big house
00:16:27.78\00:16:30.02
so but I thought very lonely,
00:16:30.05\00:16:31.39
I thought very disconnected
00:16:31.42\00:16:33.05
and so, you know, then
somebody led me to Christ
00:16:33.09\00:16:36.16
and then when I joined a church
00:16:36.19\00:16:37.76
and got baptized and I
have a good experiences
00:16:37.79\00:16:39.93
and not so good
experiences in churches
00:16:39.96\00:16:41.30
but when I...
first church I joined,
00:16:41.33\00:16:43.47
I had this strong
sense of belonging
00:16:43.50\00:16:45.30
that I had this family system...
00:16:45.33\00:16:47.10
Beautiful.
00:16:47.14\00:16:48.47
..that really helped me
and now I have a prayer partner
00:16:48.50\00:16:50.91
so I have another guy in
my life that I share with,
00:16:50.94\00:16:52.77
he knows what I'm doing
00:16:52.81\00:16:54.18
and how things are going in life
00:16:54.21\00:16:56.18
and ministry and I
know how he is doing,
00:16:56.21\00:16:58.11
so that's been
very, very valuable for me
00:16:58.15\00:17:00.88
to be intentional
00:17:00.92\00:17:02.25
'cause I learned
how to disconnect.
00:17:02.28\00:17:03.65
Yeah.
00:17:03.69\00:17:05.02
I'm one of those
people who said life isn't...
00:17:05.05\00:17:06.79
I don't trust anybody.
That's right, that's right.
00:17:06.82\00:17:08.69
So we're talking about
me when we're talking about,
00:17:08.72\00:17:10.96
you know, learning
to taking time to learn
00:17:10.99\00:17:14.20
how to trust.
00:17:14.23\00:17:15.56
Well, Rob, do you wanna
read our presenting problem,
00:17:15.60\00:17:17.33
every show we're gonna
have a case study so to speak
00:17:17.37\00:17:20.87
and we're gonna discuss
what we would do as counselors
00:17:20.90\00:17:23.10
to treat the
individual, so go ahead,
00:17:23.14\00:17:25.74
Rob, why don't you read that?
00:17:25.77\00:17:27.64
Okay, Adelina, a 33 year
old woman from Scandinavia,
00:17:27.68\00:17:31.65
working as a nanny comes
to counseling complaining
00:17:31.68\00:17:34.62
about of symptoms of depression.
00:17:34.65\00:17:36.69
She has been in
the US for three months
00:17:36.72\00:17:39.09
and spends most of her
free time with the children
00:17:39.12\00:17:41.22
that she nannies
whom she loves very much.
00:17:41.26\00:17:44.03
She regularly attends church
00:17:44.06\00:17:45.63
and even takes
some college classes
00:17:45.66\00:17:47.83
but because of
her shy temperament
00:17:47.86\00:17:49.96
has trouble with
engaging in conversation.
00:17:50.00\00:17:52.83
Adelina doesn't
quite feel homesick though
00:17:52.87\00:17:55.10
because her
mother is an alcoholic
00:17:55.14\00:17:57.87
and she lost
contact with her father
00:17:57.91\00:18:00.08
when he left when she
was only four years old.
00:18:00.11\00:18:03.61
She has no siblings,
00:18:03.65\00:18:05.35
her mother's sister
lives in Adelina's town
00:18:05.38\00:18:08.15
and is in fact the one
who found her the nanny job.
00:18:08.18\00:18:11.29
Adelina wonders if she
needs treatment for depression.
00:18:11.32\00:18:14.46
So what would you guys do?
00:18:14.49\00:18:16.52
To help Adelina...
00:18:16.56\00:18:19.03
First of all, would you
diagnose her with depression?
00:18:19.06\00:18:22.00
I do wanna know
more about her story
00:18:22.03\00:18:23.93
and what the symptoms are
and what she's going through.
00:18:23.97\00:18:27.84
Let's just briefly
touch on the diagnostic manual
00:18:27.87\00:18:31.47
and how we feel about that.
00:18:31.51\00:18:34.31
You know, it's a system
00:18:34.34\00:18:35.88
of labeling mental health issues
00:18:35.91\00:18:39.55
as they fall into
somewhat similar patterns
00:18:39.58\00:18:42.82
or to a definable patterns
but it's really in existence,
00:18:42.85\00:18:46.89
mostly for the purpose
of counselors getting paid
00:18:46.92\00:18:50.43
for their
services through insurance.
00:18:50.46\00:18:52.69
So while it's a reality
00:18:52.73\00:18:54.73
and it's one way
of working at reality,
00:18:54.76\00:18:56.50
it is not the ultimate
transgender reality, is it?
00:18:56.53\00:19:00.74
So I don't mind
these terms and so forth
00:19:00.77\00:19:03.41
and loneliness is not
a diagnosis by the way
00:19:03.44\00:19:05.71
but depression is.
00:19:05.74\00:19:07.08
And I think we
have to be careful
00:19:07.11\00:19:08.44
not to throw
around too many labels,
00:19:08.48\00:19:09.88
you know, because
people will be inclined
00:19:09.91\00:19:11.71
to identify with them.
00:19:11.75\00:19:13.08
And I personally
think in this case,
00:19:13.11\00:19:15.02
she's not really, necessarily
suffering from depression
00:19:15.05\00:19:18.09
because there are actual reasons
00:19:18.12\00:19:19.85
why she's feeling so sad,
00:19:19.89\00:19:21.86
she's disconnected
and people can't be happy
00:19:21.89\00:19:24.19
outside of connection.
00:19:24.23\00:19:25.76
So what would you do to
try to help her get connected?
00:19:25.79\00:19:29.63
Or do you guys feel
the same way about it too?
00:19:29.66\00:19:31.37
Do you think that it's
probably just a case of,
00:19:31.40\00:19:34.00
you know...
thousands miles from home.
00:19:34.04\00:19:35.37
You know, I think it's such...
00:19:35.40\00:19:36.74
you know, I think
as a guideline for us
00:19:36.77\00:19:39.97
but like Paul was
saying and others have said,
00:19:40.01\00:19:43.48
I really think it's important
to get to know the person
00:19:43.51\00:19:46.65
and see what they
are needing individually
00:19:46.68\00:19:50.69
and that can
only happen in a room
00:19:50.72\00:19:52.82
when two people are
talking and the person sense
00:19:52.85\00:19:56.19
that you're
journeying with them,
00:19:56.22\00:19:57.63
that you're their companion
in what they're going through.
00:19:57.66\00:20:00.60
And you want them to feel like
00:20:00.63\00:20:02.26
you're connected
to them as a person
00:20:02.30\00:20:03.83
and you're not seeing them
every time you look at them
00:20:03.87\00:20:05.77
through the lens of depression,
00:20:05.80\00:20:07.14
you know, whatever
diagnosis you're using.
00:20:07.17\00:20:08.64
Yeah.
00:20:08.67\00:20:10.01
And there are assessments
too for depression and we can,
00:20:10.04\00:20:12.31
we can use a
simple assessment to see
00:20:12.34\00:20:14.18
if a lot of these
symptoms are present,
00:20:14.21\00:20:15.94
for how long
they've been present.
00:20:15.98\00:20:17.91
So we do have tools
to try to figure out
00:20:17.95\00:20:20.78
what's going on here, of course.
00:20:20.82\00:20:22.28
But just at first
blush, what do you think?
00:20:22.32\00:20:24.12
Is she depressed necessarily
or she's just lonely?
00:20:24.15\00:20:27.26
It sounds like she's probably
having difficulty adjusting
00:20:27.29\00:20:30.09
to the new culture
and more than likely,
00:20:30.13\00:20:32.16
she's lonely because of that...
00:20:32.19\00:20:34.56
Sorry, sorry. I
just interrupted you.
00:20:34.60\00:20:36.93
Okay.
00:20:36.97\00:20:38.30
But you were gonna say
00:20:38.33\00:20:39.67
before you were so
rudely interrupted?
00:20:39.70\00:20:41.04
I was just gonna
say that simply that
00:20:41.07\00:20:43.64
because of the
cultural difference
00:20:43.67\00:20:45.24
and adjusting to
a new a environment,
00:20:45.27\00:20:47.71
then more than likely
she's having more difficulty
00:20:47.74\00:20:50.21
just simply adjusting
00:20:50.25\00:20:52.68
which is a normal process
of immigrating to a country.
00:20:52.71\00:20:55.68
And also look at what was
going on in the home of origin.
00:20:55.72\00:20:58.29
Those are your
baseline relationships,
00:20:58.32\00:21:00.42
your family, the
people that are there,
00:21:00.46\00:21:01.99
no matter how far away you
go or how much time passes,
00:21:02.02\00:21:04.56
there is, it's
always there for you
00:21:04.59\00:21:05.96
and there is a severe
rupture in that foundation
00:21:05.99\00:21:10.37
and so that would
effect her functioning.
00:21:10.40\00:21:12.37
Listening to what
Christina just said
00:21:12.40\00:21:14.44
and if I was the one
that was feeling lonely,
00:21:14.47\00:21:16.67
I would feel like
she's journeying with me.
00:21:16.71\00:21:19.51
As she was talking she would,
00:21:19.54\00:21:22.74
what she did was she related
to what I was going through
00:21:22.78\00:21:25.38
and then she went
ahead and said that's normal.
00:21:25.41\00:21:29.08
I would have
breathed the sigh of relief.
00:21:29.12\00:21:31.72
Right, I said, " Phew.
00:21:31.75\00:21:33.15
Thank you for listening
00:21:33.19\00:21:34.52
and thank you
for letting me feel
00:21:34.56\00:21:35.89
that everything is okay."
00:21:35.92\00:21:37.26
Do you think that as a society
00:21:37.29\00:21:38.69
we're kind of
medicating everything?
00:21:38.73\00:21:40.96
Yes.
00:21:41.00\00:21:43.16
Like everything is pathological,
00:21:43.20\00:21:44.97
were human beings designed
00:21:45.00\00:21:47.57
to be able to
carry a lot of emotion
00:21:47.60\00:21:50.34
and a huge spectrum of emotions
00:21:50.37\00:21:52.77
and do we tend to catastrophize
the negative emotions
00:21:52.81\00:21:56.28
as if those things
in and of themselves
00:21:56.31\00:21:58.05
are destructive.
00:21:58.08\00:21:59.41
I think...
00:21:59.45\00:22:00.78
In Psalms, the
majority of it in Psalms,
00:22:00.82\00:22:02.58
the vast majority, think
about 70 percent of the Psalms,
00:22:02.62\00:22:04.79
they're Psalms of lament.
00:22:04.82\00:22:06.15
Yeah.
00:22:06.19\00:22:07.52
Like, you know,
Psalms of sorrow,
00:22:07.56\00:22:08.89
in grief and Jesus was
a man of grief and sorrow,
00:22:08.92\00:22:10.59
so this lady has
had a lot of loss.
00:22:10.63\00:22:13.56
A loss of a mother to alcohol,
00:22:13.60\00:22:15.26
a loss of the
father who leaves her,
00:22:15.30\00:22:16.90
a loss of
country like, you know,
00:22:16.93\00:22:18.50
Christina was saying so,
if we can help honor the fact
00:22:18.53\00:22:21.30
that she's
experienced a lot of loss,
00:22:21.34\00:22:23.54
there is that God using us
00:22:23.57\00:22:24.97
as human agents connecting
with her, normalizing it
00:22:25.01\00:22:28.24
and go on, " Ah,
there is a reason for this."
00:22:28.28\00:22:29.71
That's right,
00:22:29.74\00:22:31.08
a lot of what I
see in this day and age
00:22:31.11\00:22:33.42
was so many
labels falling around
00:22:33.45\00:22:34.98
is what I call
secondary disturbance
00:22:35.02\00:22:36.69
for the people are disturbed
00:22:36.72\00:22:38.05
and then they're
disturbed about being disturbed
00:22:38.09\00:22:39.55
because now they're
diagnosed with an illness
00:22:39.59\00:22:41.89
and the first thing I
do with people like that
00:22:41.92\00:22:43.66
is I say, " Hey, you know,
00:22:43.69\00:22:45.13
the fact that you
feel really deeply sad,
00:22:45.16\00:22:47.50
it's okay, first of
all, it won't kill you.
00:22:47.53\00:22:49.86
Secondly, it
doesn't make you a loser,
00:22:49.90\00:22:52.17
thirdly it doesn't mean
it's always gonna be that way."
00:22:52.20\00:22:54.70
It's not your identity.
That's right, that's right.
00:22:54.74\00:22:56.81
I think it's an
opportunity for Adelina
00:22:56.84\00:23:00.44
to draw closer to
Christ and depend more on Him.
00:23:00.48\00:23:03.71
Sometimes I think we experience
some of those emotions
00:23:03.75\00:23:06.01
for that purpose, to be
able to draw close to Him.
00:23:06.05\00:23:08.92
Yes, I think so too, um,
00:23:08.95\00:23:10.95
but what about
connecting with people,
00:23:10.99\00:23:13.56
what action steps
would you give Adelina
00:23:13.59\00:23:16.59
if she attempts to
come out of this loneliness
00:23:16.62\00:23:19.69
phase of her life?
00:23:19.73\00:23:21.06
What pactical
steps would you give her?
00:23:21.10\00:23:23.23
She's got an aunt who
lives in the same town,
00:23:23.26\00:23:25.50
from the same home
country who got her the job,
00:23:25.53\00:23:27.84
so that tells me
there's some kind of connection,
00:23:27.87\00:23:29.84
so I'd wanna know
what is her relationship
00:23:29.87\00:23:32.21
with her now that she's here
00:23:32.24\00:23:34.31
and what is she
doing that can encourage,
00:23:34.34\00:23:35.91
like you mentioned church,
00:23:35.94\00:23:37.28
we know
statistically women live longer,
00:23:37.31\00:23:40.02
if they go to
church, they're healthier.
00:23:40.05\00:23:41.82
We know the studies that show
00:23:41.85\00:23:43.82
that that
connection is important,
00:23:43.85\00:23:45.19
so I would probably wanna know,
00:23:45.22\00:23:46.55
what are some of the
natural resources around her
00:23:46.59\00:23:48.52
and that could help her.
00:23:48.56\00:23:50.33
That's cool, that's great.
00:23:50.36\00:23:51.69
You know, something
else that I would look for
00:23:51.73\00:23:53.53
and I would ask
her is, I would ask her
00:23:53.56\00:23:55.70
what is she needing
00:23:55.73\00:23:57.07
when it comes to
connecting with someone
00:23:57.10\00:23:59.77
and getting that
answer will help us to know,
00:23:59.80\00:24:02.20
would even help her
to know where to turn.
00:24:02.24\00:24:04.21
Now that's interesting
00:24:04.24\00:24:05.57
'cause you're saying
don't tell her what she needs,
00:24:05.61\00:24:07.34
we'll have her
tell you what she needs.
00:24:07.38\00:24:09.08
What is the...
00:24:09.11\00:24:10.45
And she's got a shy temperament.
00:24:10.48\00:24:11.81
And she's a shy temperament,
00:24:11.85\00:24:13.18
so tell me what
the value is in that,
00:24:13.21\00:24:14.55
in her telling you
00:24:14.58\00:24:15.92
what she needs versus you
telling her what she needs.
00:24:15.95\00:24:18.15
Well, one,
00:24:18.19\00:24:19.99
because it's
coming from her and so...
00:24:20.02\00:24:22.22
Well, what's so
why, what does that do?
00:24:22.26\00:24:23.99
Well, because she's the
one that knows what she needs
00:24:24.03\00:24:26.59
and two, I believe that it makes
00:24:26.63\00:24:29.46
a person feel very important.
00:24:29.50\00:24:32.07
I want to know what you need.
00:24:32.10\00:24:35.04
Three, often times
people have a tendency and...
00:24:35.07\00:24:39.41
you know, I'm a person
so I have this tendency
00:24:39.44\00:24:41.41
to, you know, stuff my
feelings and the Bible does say,
00:24:41.44\00:24:45.08
"Blessed are ye that mourn,
for they shall be comforted."
00:24:45.11\00:24:47.98
And perhaps she may
just need to take the time
00:24:48.02\00:24:51.62
to mourn over the transition
from one country to the next,
00:24:51.65\00:24:56.42
mourn over, you
know, as I look at this,
00:24:56.46\00:24:58.59
you know, it says that her aunt
00:24:58.63\00:25:00.40
or a relative
found the job for her,
00:25:00.43\00:25:03.40
who knows, she may surprise
00:25:03.43\00:25:04.93
and she's
mourning over this new job
00:25:04.97\00:25:06.63
and she doesn't want this job.
00:25:06.67\00:25:08.00
I don't know that but
and so she may tell me,
00:25:08.04\00:25:10.71
what I'm
needing is to find a job
00:25:10.74\00:25:12.47
that is much more meaningful.
00:25:12.51\00:25:14.28
Do you think that her
having a shy temperament
00:25:14.31\00:25:16.98
and coming from
this broken family life
00:25:17.01\00:25:20.58
would be inclined
to not think about
00:25:20.62\00:25:24.92
what she needs and
would be inclined to feel
00:25:24.95\00:25:27.46
so much shame possibly,
00:25:27.49\00:25:29.66
that even thinking
about what she needs
00:25:29.69\00:25:32.23
would be considered
like, she never even do,
00:25:32.26\00:25:35.06
I mean, if the
person was never nurtured,
00:25:35.10\00:25:37.27
the thing that enables me
to care for myself as an adult
00:25:37.30\00:25:41.34
is to some degree the formatting
00:25:41.37\00:25:43.34
my brain received by my mother
00:25:43.37\00:25:45.37
as my mother took
care of my needs as a child
00:25:45.41\00:25:47.54
and so if I didn't
have the benefit of that
00:25:47.58\00:25:49.21
or if my home life
was some how compromised
00:25:49.24\00:25:51.18
and my needs were
not met as a child,
00:25:51.21\00:25:52.61
I'll be less inclined to know
00:25:52.65\00:25:54.75
how to meet my needs as an adult
00:25:54.78\00:25:56.45
and this is why people who come
00:25:56.48\00:25:57.89
from
compromises functional homes
00:25:57.92\00:26:00.06
often develop addictions,
00:26:00.09\00:26:01.42
'cause addictions are a
way of trying to feel better
00:26:01.46\00:26:03.43
when you don't know
how to make yourself
00:26:03.46\00:26:04.79
feel better in a healthy way.
00:26:04.83\00:26:06.33
Yeah, and this is
the beauty of counseling,
00:26:06.36\00:26:08.13
is that we are an objective,
perspective that we can give
00:26:08.16\00:26:11.57
that there she may
not have had before.
00:26:11.60\00:26:13.30
I went to David,
and I'm struggling
00:26:13.34\00:26:15.54
with loss or
loneliness and David says to me,
00:26:15.57\00:26:18.41
"what do you need?"
00:26:18.44\00:26:20.24
and it's not easy
for me to speak up
00:26:20.28\00:26:21.78
or think about that,
00:26:21.81\00:26:23.38
the message I'm getting
is David has confidence in me
00:26:23.41\00:26:26.41
that I can have confidence
in myself to sit there
00:26:26.45\00:26:28.82
and, you know, may be,
00:26:28.85\00:26:30.19
might be a minute or
two of awkward silence
00:26:30.22\00:26:31.75
which is a lot of time in
our socially connected world,
00:26:31.79\00:26:35.42
where we're connected to media
00:26:35.46\00:26:36.79
but not each other but I
might have to think about.
00:26:36.83\00:26:39.46
But what you're doing
is you're saying to me,
00:26:39.49\00:26:40.96
I'm confident that
you can think about this,
00:26:41.00\00:26:43.67
that the Lord can
bring you to what you need
00:26:43.70\00:26:45.63
and what you want and
then take the next step forward
00:26:45.67\00:26:47.70
that'll look like step by step.
00:26:47.74\00:26:49.40
So to me, you're encouraging
her to have self confidence
00:26:49.44\00:26:52.91
that she can think
about her own needs
00:26:52.94\00:26:55.44
and what they
would look like for her,
00:26:55.48\00:26:56.81
as a person with
a shy temperament
00:26:56.85\00:26:58.68
who is moved to a
different country.
00:26:58.71\00:27:01.55
Many times a person
who is told what they need,
00:27:01.58\00:27:06.69
sometimes more adopt
what you're telling them
00:27:06.72\00:27:09.26
or want to implement
what you're telling them
00:27:09.29\00:27:10.83
because they
aren't convicted that
00:27:10.86\00:27:12.73
that's what they need
00:27:12.76\00:27:14.10
but if they come
up with themselves,
00:27:14.13\00:27:16.43
more than likely
then they will actually do
00:27:16.46\00:27:18.47
what's necessary
to get what they need.
00:27:18.50\00:27:21.40
People are much more
likely to act on what they own,
00:27:21.44\00:27:24.91
you know, isn't that kind
of where you're coming from
00:27:24.94\00:27:26.88
like what do you need,
00:27:26.91\00:27:28.24
like if she
identifies what she needs,
00:27:28.28\00:27:29.88
she's gonna be
much more motivated...
00:27:29.91\00:27:31.41
To work on and
like Christiana said,
00:27:31.45\00:27:33.95
you know, you can
give me a to-do list
00:27:33.98\00:27:37.62
and my
resistance starts coming up.
00:27:37.65\00:27:40.89
So thankful that
we've had this conversation
00:27:40.92\00:27:43.49
and I'm really,
really excited doing the show
00:27:43.53\00:27:46.70
with these amazing people
00:27:46.73\00:27:48.06
and we've had a
really productive,
00:27:48.10\00:27:49.43
I think really
productive conversation
00:27:49.46\00:27:50.97
here about loneliness
00:27:51.00\00:27:52.37
and I just want
to say in closing
00:27:52.40\00:27:54.14
that there is
someone to whom you can bring
00:27:54.17\00:27:56.00
all of your needs
and the same is Jesus
00:27:56.04\00:27:58.24
and He will connect
you not only to Himself
00:27:58.27\00:28:00.64
but to your brothers
and sisters in Christ
00:28:00.68\00:28:02.61
and you can learn
how to love and be loved.
00:28:02.64\00:28:04.31