Participants: Dick Duerksen
Series Code: MMS
Program Code: MMS004145
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00:01 Hello, this is the Maranatha Minute.
00:03 Last week the Dominican Republic 00:04 welcomed a burst of energy in the form of team volunteers. 00:08 Approximately 300 alternate workout participants 00:11 began arriving in the country last week 00:13 to build churches and classrooms in Barahona. 00:16 This is the 24th year of these teenagers only mission trip 00:20 and it's the largest Ultimate Workout till date. 00:22 The teen trip came on the heels of 00:24 another Dominican Republic project, 00:26 the annual summer family project wrapped up 00:29 just days before Ultimate Workout leadership arrived. 00:32 This team of a 112 volunteers built three one day churches 00:35 in the suburbs of Santo Domingo. 00:38 Keep up with what's happening on the Ultimate Workout, 00:40 the family project and other trips 00:42 by going to our Maranatha Facebook page. 00:44 We'll post photos and updates 00:46 from project sites around the world. 00:48 Go to Maranatha.org/facebook. 00:52 Coming up, learn why a small group of parents 00:54 have permission to be part of teenagers only mission trip 00:57 and what they learned from the experience. 01:17 This is Ultimate Workout, Tumbaco, Ecuador. 01:20 And one of the things I'd like you to notice 01:22 is how the kids are the ones doing the work. 01:24 Most of the time it's almost impossible 01:27 to find any adults around here 01:28 because the kids are actually building walls 01:31 and doing important things, 01:32 it's impossible they ever going to take a break. 01:35 But every once in a while you run into the elders. 01:39 You guys still alive? Barely. 01:41 Barely. Barely, I'm hanging on. 01:45 If I didn't have Gary here to hold me up 01:46 I'm don't know what would happen. 01:48 Kindly give me your interruption. 01:49 Oh, man, look at this, ice cream. 01:52 This show is about old people on Ultimate Workout. 02:00 Over the past 23 years the Ultimate Workout 02:03 has evolved to be one of Maranatha's 02:05 most popular and epic mission adventures. 02:09 How could a project designed 02:11 exclusively for teenagers be anything less. 02:15 Only its not just teenagers on the trip, 02:18 there are handful of special grown-ups 02:20 who are granted access and they willingly trade 02:23 the comforts of home for a tent and concrete floor. 02:27 I don't like camping, I don't like solo shower, 02:30 I don't like the cold, 02:31 let's see what else do I not like. 02:34 But I love the ministry. 02:37 Loretta is a writer and mother of five. 02:40 In 2003 she went on Ultimate Workout 13 02:44 as a correspondent for Inside Magazine. 02:47 She was impressed by the program 02:49 and the teens who served. 02:50 She became one of the Ultimate Workout leaders 02:53 and she's been back year after year. 02:56 My love of the ministry is great enough 03:00 to cancel my dislike for all of those other things. 03:04 So, that's why I love Ultimate Workout. 03:07 The Ultimate Workout is an annual mission trip 03:10 designed to mentally and spiritually transform teenagers 03:14 by pushing them out of their comfort zones 03:16 and into the mission field. 03:18 For two weeks volunteers are asked to negotiate life 03:21 in a new culture with new friends. 03:25 Guiding this process are a few dozen adult leaders. 03:28 They are carefully selected 03:30 based on their passion for missions 03:32 and most importantly for their commitment 03:34 to the spiritual development of teenagers. 03:37 Steve Williams has recently coordinated 03:40 Ultimate Workout to medical outrage. 03:43 But his involvement in this mission experience 03:45 stretches back more than 20 years. 03:47 These young people who are interested in serving 03:53 and even if initially they are not interested 03:54 in serving their transmission 03:57 there is a spiritually transforming experience 03:59 and they come back and they, they participate. 04:03 But what keeps me come back is the kids, 04:06 I love them, every one of them. 04:11 We have so much that we don't do for a teens back at home. 04:18 We don't give them leadership roles, 04:20 we don't let them grow, we look at the way they dress, 04:23 we look at the way they act 04:25 and think that they should be more mature, 04:28 should have different dress you know, 04:30 should not wear make up 04:31 should have this much nail polish on 04:33 but that's really not what's important. 04:35 What's important is where their heart is 04:38 and what I saw with this was 04:40 it helped to connect hearts with God. 04:44 And if we don't give them that opportunity 04:46 where do they get it. 04:48 A young lady told me the other day that 04:50 because she's been called out and pulled out to be a leader 04:54 on here on this Ultimate Workout 04:56 they should take that and transfer and go home 04:59 because she says, I don't even know construction 05:01 and if I can be a leader on a construction site 05:03 surely I can be a leader for the youth in my church. 05:06 So, I think that's what it's about just training them 05:10 and helping them to become better leaders, 05:14 to be willing to lead their peers 05:15 and to lead others as their lives continue. 05:19 The leaders work with the team volunteers 05:22 on the construction site, 05:23 medical clinics and during outrage ministries. 05:27 The interaction gives the adults opportunities 05:30 to mentor the teams, 05:31 a task that can feel intimidating at first. 05:36 I love children 05:37 and I work with the younger children in Sabbath school 05:41 and I just-- but teens were different story to me, 05:45 so last year was a big challenge 05:47 whether I would be able to be like teens. 05:51 They just love to be into their group 05:53 made me part of their group 05:56 and that was no issue with me at all. 05:59 I tried to build relationships 06:00 by just taking kids where they are, 06:03 in helping that they'll do the same with me. 06:05 A lot of kids have been through experiences that 06:08 at their ages, you know, it's really surprising. 06:11 Sometimes it's really sad, and yeah they don't need 06:16 our judgments and they don't need-- 06:19 sometimes they don't even need our counsel they need our ears. 06:22 You know our listening and our openness 06:24 to see what they can be and to see what they are, 06:29 what they want to be 06:30 and what they want out of this experience? 06:32 Sometimes they don't know what they want 06:33 out of their experience you know, 06:35 and they don't know why they are here 06:37 but I find and just trying to take them where they are 06:41 and to see them for the people that they are 06:43 and what they can be that you know, 06:46 its just kind of growth 06:47 and by the end at least based on my first experience 06:51 I didn't wanted to end 06:52 and I could see many cases they didn't either 06:54 because we found a place that safe 06:58 and they kind of get a sense that cares about them 07:02 just as they are. 07:04 Mark is an emergency medical technician. 07:07 Both his kids have been on Ultimate Workout 07:10 and he has served as a leader for two years. 07:13 He says he returns because of the connection with the teens. 07:17 But he and the other leaders admit there is more 07:20 to why they return year after year. 07:22 I personally needed it spiritually to be here 07:26 and to be able to be focused on something, 07:28 some what else than other folks 07:30 and something than just work all the time. 07:33 So I'm very grateful to have been here. 07:36 Who gets more out of this experience 07:38 is the real hard one to pen down 07:40 because I know its something that is really worrying for me 07:44 and I continue to grow spiritually 07:46 and learn different ways of connecting 07:51 with different kids and their personalities 07:54 but I think it's a two way street, 07:57 I mean, God definitely works 07:58 on both the young people and the adults. 08:01 After all no matter whom it's designed for 08:04 the Ultimate Workout is ultimately a mission trip. 08:08 And missions have a way of changing people. 08:11 It's fulfilling and it's true that I do this 08:14 because it's great for the kids, 08:15 it's spiritually transforming for the kids 08:18 but the other thing is added to little selfish 08:20 and its spiritually transforming for me 08:22 and it just helps me to get my perspective in line. 08:26 And I see that it does for the participants 08:28 every year, every time 08:30 and so that's why I'm addicted and I can't stop. 08:36 I told a friend online today 08:37 about building a church for just $10. 08:41 He said for just 10 bucks 08:42 I could just buy a couple of smoothies. 08:45 My friend Frank assumed that a $10 church 08:48 had to be a print back building. 08:51 I posted a picture, 08:52 one of these beautiful buildings in Buenos Aires. 08:55 He couldn't believe it. 08:57 Then my bud Jason joined in. 08:59 He's been a member of this club for 10 years. 09:02 He built a church every month somewhere in the world for $10, 09:06 that's 120 churches. 09:09 Tina is also a member. 09:11 We found that by skipping something 09:13 a simple as a soda twice a week 09:15 we can pitch into building a church 09:18 'cause its just $10. 09:20 Go to marantaha.org and see for yourself 09:23 how easy it is to be part of mission. 09:26 Join us, be a member of the $10 church. 09:36 Every once in a while I get to interview somebody 09:38 that's just plain fun because of experiences 09:40 we've had before in our lives, today is one of those. 09:43 Here on Ultimate Workout I want to introduce you to Steve Case 09:46 who is the grandfather of Ultimate Workout. 09:51 Steve, you've been on Ultimate Workouts forever. 09:54 In the process of doing all of this 09:56 I've watched you do three things 09:58 that I want to talk about real quick. 10:00 One of the things I've watched is you lead by leading. 10:03 How do you do that? 10:05 I've a tremendous confidence in the other people 10:07 that are here and for lot of these people 10:09 they've already demonstrated some leadership 10:12 and so to rely on them is really an easy thing to do. 10:15 I've tremendous confidence on the power of God 10:18 in these situations, I believe in young people 10:21 and so we've found that if there's a need some place 10:24 and we expect God to act, 10:26 we expect the participants to step in and do it 10:29 and over and over they do amazing things. 10:31 So that's why my confidence is high. 10:33 Couple days ago I sat with or stood 10:35 with four of the leaders, 10:37 the adult leaders who are doing construction 10:39 and we were way up at the other end of the site 10:41 watching a group of kids work. 10:43 And they were chuckling about how Marge was doing 10:46 and how Fred was doing and look at that, 10:48 watch what's gonna happen now. 10:49 They're gonna have trouble with the mud 10:51 and he's gonna fix it, 10:52 you watch Carl's gonna go down 10:54 and yep, see and Carl gets down 10:55 and goes and solves the problem and what-- Isn't that amazing? 11:00 It absolutely is. It's a miracle. 11:02 But really if you want to look from heavens perspective 11:06 and what adults are doing 11:08 I expect the same kind of conversation is happening. 11:10 Hey Gabriel, watch this. 11:13 Dick Duerksen is gonna try this and then this is gonna happen 11:15 and he's gonna have to do this practice. 11:17 That's why it's gonna be saved by Steve 11:18 coming in from the back coming up. 11:19 Now or an angel or another person 11:21 or your wife or somebody else 11:22 and so I think that happens all the time, 11:24 we just don't expect it to happen with young people 11:26 and I say it's the same the God so why not? 11:29 So why not? 11:30 Also I'm a Seventh-day Adventist 11:32 and so the roots of my particular denominations 11:35 start with young people. 11:36 That's true. 11:37 So I expect young people to be able to take off and lead 11:40 because age is irrelevant to God. 11:42 It doesn't matter how old or old young you are, 11:45 if you have God you got everything. 11:47 Then why is it that so many of us all dudes 11:50 who cross our arms and lean back in our chairs 11:53 and are afraid that somebody is gonna take our chair. 11:56 Well, the reason I do it 11:57 is because I'm afraid somebody will take my chair 12:00 and my chair is all my confidence is in 12:02 and if I give that up what do I have left 12:05 and I think the answer is I only have Jesus. 12:08 And is that enough? 12:10 It's not enough then I'm gonna keep hold of my chair 12:13 and not gonna allow somebody else take it. 12:14 So I should be very comfortable letting my chair go 12:17 because I've already got Christ 12:18 and if somebody else need to sit in my chair, cool. 12:21 If I have Christ then I'm willing 12:23 to give my chair to anybody. 12:26 How do you find adult leadership 12:27 for Ultimate Workout? 12:29 Always on a lookout for that 12:30 and the thing that we're looking for 12:31 there are really two qualities we look for 12:34 in an adult leader for Ultimate Workout. 12:36 Number one, do they love God? 12:39 Number two, do they love young people? 12:41 If they have those two qualities 12:43 that's really all that's needed. 12:44 But you're looking for some skill level. 12:46 Yes, yes I'm looking for skill 12:49 but that would be something like 12:50 somebody who can lay block. 12:52 If I personally lay block they are many who can lay block 12:55 but they may not love God. 12:58 Well, our adult leaders we tell them, 13:00 your primary role on this mission trip 13:03 is to be a mentor for the young people. 13:06 Your primary role is not to lay block 13:07 that's your secondary role. 13:09 So if you like your primary role 13:11 you better go on another project 13:13 where all the counts is laying block 13:14 but we're building people. 13:16 I was talking to Glenda Davidson 13:17 the other day she is the nurse 13:18 on this part of the project here 13:20 and she said that one day she was staying at home 13:22 and she got a phone call and that she was sure 13:25 it was a telemarketer, somebody said, 13:27 hi, I'm Steve Case and I'm working 13:28 and I need you to go to blah, blah, blah, blah, 13:30 and she just listened as you did this long spiel 13:32 as you did this long spiel on the phone 13:35 about something important you know. 13:37 Tell me about Glenda 13:38 and how you recruit people like that? 13:40 We're quite serious in praying every year, 13:43 a very basic prayer and it was like this, 13:45 Lord, please bring the people You want 13:48 and keep away the people You don't want 13:51 and it may not make sense to us at times 13:53 but we're gonna trust You. 13:54 And that's a difficult thing 13:56 when we come down to the nitty gritty 13:58 because we're always recruiting people 14:00 and some we think really should be there and they are not. 14:03 And they don't come. 14:04 And we have to say, God, didn't you hear the prayer? 14:07 This doesn't makes wait. 14:08 No, He says wait, I did hear the prayer. 14:10 Exactly. 14:11 And so then our faith gets tested. 14:12 And then when I called Glenda we had lost a site nurse 14:17 and we were desperate and out of this happens 14:19 every year on some person, 14:20 something comes up and so here we're with two days 14:23 to go or a week to go 14:24 and who, who and so we tried calling 14:27 and they referred us to somebody else, 14:28 I think Glenda was about number three down the line. 14:30 I never heard of her and she never heard of me 14:32 so I called and introduced myself and she said yes. 14:37 And she came and we're just an excellent fit 14:40 and excellent because she loves God, 14:43 she loves young people. 14:44 She has nursing skills that I don't have. 14:46 Right. You know-- 14:47 And she could use those. 14:48 But if she were nurse and didn't love God 14:50 or love young people she wouldn't fit. 14:52 No, no. 14:53 Take me to you and a job you don't have 14:56 and that's you as a Bible teacher 14:57 had a large Adventist academy. 15:01 And you've got a group of kids who love playing basket ball 15:06 with local people who are not church members. 15:10 Would you encourage your students 15:13 and their friends to come on Ultimate Workout and why? 15:16 If you want to go out of your comfort zone 15:19 to get to a situation 15:20 where you have to trust in God 15:23 then this is a golden opportunity. 15:24 Okay. 15:26 But the challenge is we can out ourselves in situations 15:29 back home where we have to trust in God 15:31 but we usually don't. 15:32 We'll be go with what's comfortable, 15:34 with what's familiar and yet young people 15:36 always want something beyond. 15:38 They want some kind of excitement 15:40 and as adults we say, no, no, no, no, 15:42 let's keep it all under control. 15:44 And it's a mirage to say that we are under control, 15:46 we're not under control at all but we risk so little for God 15:50 because we want to hide under this image of control. 15:53 And on a mission trip 15:54 we're dependant on God from day one. 15:57 One more question for you. 15:59 So, you get 60 kids and you come to the site 16:06 and everything's changed, 16:08 all of the plans that you had laid are gone. 16:11 How do you deal with that 16:13 and how does that compare 16:16 with what Jesus did with His disciples? 16:19 Yeah. 16:21 We jokingly say that one of these years in Ultimate Workout 16:24 we're just gonna name a country. 16:28 Give it at least a city, okay or at least a part. 16:30 Some place where the plane to land. 16:31 Give it a GPS, coordinate. 16:33 And we're gonna say, okay, Jesus, take us. 16:35 Because we joke about that 16:38 and what we actually do is we plan as much as we can. 16:43 And then when it comes to the actual trip we're flexible. 16:47 And so we go with it, when it changes you change with it 16:51 and you just take this as a divine opportunity 16:53 and this has happened year after year. 16:56 One year when we were in Chile 16:58 things were changing so much in the planning process 17:01 where we were gonna be, 17:02 that when we made up with the T-shirts 17:04 and put the names of the locations on the back 17:06 we actually put one and called it other. 17:09 Saying their flying is something 17:10 we don't even know about it yet 17:11 while the T-shirts are being printed. 17:12 Yeah, I love it. 17:13 I ended up being a leader of the other site. 17:15 We didn't even know what existed 17:17 and there was no church to be constructed at that site 17:20 so we went there with no construction 17:23 and so what did we do, we said, okay God, 17:27 what do you want us to do to build a church, 17:29 it's not gonna be we lay block 17:31 so how do we build a church right here? 17:33 And our construction leader for that particular project, 17:38 her first year as construction superintendent 17:40 with no building was a person named Rebecca Widmore, 17:44 is now the brains behind Ultimate Workout 17:47 in the office at Maranatha. 17:48 That's right. 17:49 And so she took something where her job is 17:51 just taken away for her and what does she gonna do? 17:54 Gonna make it a success. 17:55 How does all of this compare with Christ 17:57 leading His disciples? 17:59 Well, I think it's the same thing. 18:00 You see the disciples fumbling over and over 18:03 and not knowing how to handle the situation. 18:05 And yet Jesus sticks with them 18:06 and every opportunity 18:08 is another growth situation for them 18:10 and so I think is very much being a follower of Jesus today 18:13 is much of the same kind of thing. 18:15 Here we go for the ride. 18:17 The Black Hills of South Dakota are home to Mount Rushmore 18:21 and six national parks. 18:22 It's a must see destination in the United States. 18:25 And now you can visit this area 18:27 while serving on a mission trip. 18:29 The Hermosa Adventist Company in the Black Hills 18:32 is in need of a church. 18:34 This group of 40 people have no place to worship 18:36 and Maranatha is going to build them a new church. 18:39 But we can't do it alone so we are inviting you 18:42 to help construct a new sanctuary. 18:44 This project is from August 4th to 21. 18:46 Food and lodging is provided 18:48 and all you need to do is get to South Dakota 18:51 then if you've got time you can drive west 18:53 from the Black Hills project to Federal Way, Washington 18:56 where another group awaits your help for building a church 18:59 for the Russian, Ukrainian, Perusia Adventist church. 19:02 There are about 100 members and they are thrilled 19:04 to finally have a space of their own. 19:07 This project is from August 18 to September 4. 19:10 To apply for either of these projects go to maranatha.org. 20:19 To come along on Ultimate Workout 20:21 you have to be somewhere between 14 and 18 years of age 20:24 and not a graduate from high school 20:26 and yet every year the Ultimate Workout team 20:29 includes tons of all dudes and dudesses 20:32 who are far beyond 18. 20:35 How is that possible? Well, it's biblical. 20:39 Remember the Prophet Samuel, the moment his mother Hannah 20:43 had delivered him she was already working out solutions 20:46 to get Samuel back into the temple 20:49 where Eli could be his mentor. 20:51 Now you and I both know Eli was a not good mentor 20:54 to most of anybody except Samuel. 20:59 God sent Samuel back to the temple 21:02 to be able to experience Eli and his wisdom 21:06 and in the process of all that 21:08 Samuel became one of the greatest of God's prophets. 21:11 You know, it's interesting how the experience and wisdom 21:17 of older people 21:18 it kind of serves like miracle grow 21:21 in the lives of the young. 21:24 In another illustration young King Josiah, 21:28 now what young King Josiah took over the throne at age eight 21:32 and I don't know that they were ever very many 21:34 intelligent wise and great eight year old kings 21:39 but Josiah had a gift. 21:41 He knew how to lean on older folks. 21:44 You read all of Josiah stories what you find in the names of 21:47 Hilkiah, Shaphan, Azaliah and of course the prophet. 21:52 Prophetess Hannah. Now that's really special. 21:56 Here is a young kid who says 21:58 I want to do the best I possibly can. 22:01 At age 16 after being king for eight years 22:05 he began completely redesigning the temple for God. 22:10 Everything in his life seem to be just right on target. 22:12 In fact, he is the only king in scripture 22:16 where the words describe him as, 22:18 and Josiah followed the word in all of his way never turning 22:23 either to the right hand or to the left 22:26 and I calling that the straight arrow king. 22:29 He was a king who understood the value of having adults, 22:36 wise mentors close by. 22:40 Here's another illustration, remember doorman Mordecai? 22:45 Yeah, and his niece Hadassah. 22:49 Its miracles happen there. 22:51 All we really know is that Mordecai 22:54 who was the doorman to King Xerxes had a niece, 22:57 don't know if there was a woman in the house, 22:58 we don't know anything more than that, 23:00 all we know is Mordecai gift of wisdom rubbed off on Hadassah. 23:06 So that when the time came she was ready to be the queen 23:11 and so we have the story of Queen Esther. 23:14 Yes, it was Queen Esther story 23:17 but key to that story is the worst of Mordecai. 23:21 Every summer when we began with Ultimate Workout 23:26 doing the planning we make sure 23:28 that we invite a very special group of wise aged mentors. 23:34 People who really know how to deal with teenagers, 23:36 people know how to love, 23:37 people whose connection with God is bright solid. 23:41 Ask the kids about them I know what they'll tell you. 23:45 They'll immediately begin describing 23:47 long all night conversations 23:49 with this mentor or that mentor or with that old person with-- 23:53 you know, there is something that happens 23:55 when they get together 23:56 and they be learned to trust each other. 23:58 As one of the old fellows said to me the other day 24:01 I can walk into a group of Ultimate Workout teenagers 24:04 and feel like one of them. 24:07 That's pretty cool. What the teenagers say? 24:11 They've got to make sure that while they are here 24:14 on Ultimate Workout they learned to lay a block 24:16 as well as Jessup 24:17 or they learned to give a shot as well was Williams. 24:20 Let me put it this way. 24:22 I believe that the brilliance of youth shines brightest 24:28 when buffed against the loving wisdom of aged Christians. 24:35 That's part of what Ultimate Workout is all about. 24:37 We're doing our best to change lives 24:40 and help create leaders for the future of our church 24:44 for the future of the world. 24:46 Talk to the kids about what they learned here. 24:49 One of the things you'll learn very quickly 24:50 is that they have learned wisdom from the adults. 24:54 In fact, you will hear young voices 24:57 speaking with wisdom, with creativity, 24:59 with convection far beyond their age. 25:03 That happens when they get to spend their time 25:07 with people who love Christ and can communicate it clearly. 25:10 In fact, I think you'll hear kids talking with the wisdom 25:15 that comes form Christ 25:17 and live it that wisdom with Christ's servant heart. 25:24 This morning I receive several photos 25:26 of one day churches Maranatha built this week in Angola. 25:30 Our team is working in and around 25:32 the capital city of Rwanda 25:33 building churches for existing congregations. 25:36 These four congregations will have a new church 25:39 to meet in this coming Sabbath. 25:41 The members will move out of less permanent course 25:43 and will soon start building the walls 25:45 of their one day church. 25:48 The current request from Angola 25:49 for churches and schools is quite large, 25:51 1,000 one day churches and 6,000 classrooms. 25:56 That is not an unreasonable request. 25:58 The need is definitely there. 26:00 Maranatha is committed to building 400 churches 26:03 and 200 one day classrooms in Angola. 26:06 These churches and schools 26:07 will positively impact thousands of lives. 26:10 Construction is also starting 26:11 on a large school campus in Rwanda. 26:14 An education in evangelism center 26:16 and 30 one day school classrooms will provide 26:18 space for kindergarten through high school. 26:21 This new campus will be the flagship educational center 26:24 for the Seventh-day Adventist church in Rwanda. 26:27 This work has begun in Angola on faith 26:29 that the funds will come in to meet this critical needs. 26:31 I'd like to invite you to get involved in Angola. 26:34 Pray about the needs there. 26:36 Praise God for the open opportunities 26:38 that exist right now and support the construction 26:41 of churches and schools with the donation. 26:44 To support the needs in Angola 26:46 call the number on your screen or visit maranatha.org. 26:55 Well, this program is been about old people 26:57 you know, like me and may be like you. 27:00 My wife and I sometimes are the oldest people 27:02 on a Maranatha project. 27:03 In fact, we're really glad when faith comes along 27:06 and we're no longer the oldest. 27:08 It's fun. 27:09 But Ultimate Workout is extra special 27:12 and as we've talked about for the last little while 27:14 there is a place for wisdom, 27:16 the aged wisdom that comes with the folks who were here 27:19 mentoring the teenagers of Ultimate Workout. 27:22 If you are one of the kids say thanks to your old dudes. 27:26 If you were one of the old dudes 27:28 grab a couple of kids and give them a big hug 27:30 where the future leadership of the church and our world. 27:35 I'm Dick Duerksen host of Maranatha Mission Stories 27:37 still doing okay. 27:39 See you again next time. |
Revised 2014-12-17