Participants:
Series Code: MIW
Program Code: MIW000075A
|
00:01 Hi, I'm Dr. Kim Logan Nowlan.
00:02 I'm Arthur Nowlan 00:04 And welcome to Making It Work. 00:06 ¤ ¤ 00:37 Today on Making It Work we're going to talk about the art of 00:41 listening. How would you rate your listening skills. Do you 00:45 have effective listening or do you have poor listening skills? 00:49 What determines a great listener versus someone who cannot 00:55 listen well. Well two components Number one: Being able to convey 01:00 a message, get that response back and give them an 01:04 appropriate response to their question. A lot of times we are 01:09 not listening and therefore you get huh, what did you say, could 01:13 you repeat that and the other person says what were you doing? 01:18 I was talking right at you. Are you listening? Did you fall 01:22 asleep? So we've got to look at the content, the quality and the 01:26 art of listening. Well Arthur and I are going to demonstrate 01:30 some effective listening and not so effective listening. So we're 01:34 going to start off with some negative listening. And this is 01:37 all role play. So again, understand we're just trying 01:42 to show you some of the things that people get into and with 01:46 Arthur and I being therapists helping them to look at the way 01:50 they listen and communicate. You may ask why is it so 01:52 important to have effective listening skills and the impact 01:56 on the relationship. Arthur why is that so important in our 01:59 relationships today. 02:01 To establish good relationships we must be able to hear what the 02:06 other person is saying. If I'm able to hear what you're trying 02:11 to convey to me then I'm able to give you a positive response 02:15 or a response that is coming from me and I'm asking you what 02:21 your opinion is to my response. 02:24 So to put that in laymen's terms I want to be able to give you a 02:29 good quality answer. So when someone is communicating with 02:33 you it can become very frustrating in your relationship 02:36 within the household. Even with your children, you have to be 02:41 able to give good information and how it's received and given. 02:47 So Arthur and I want to demonstrate to you something 02:50 that what we do in our relationship seminars and 02:53 role play. We're going to demonstrate one negative impact 02:57 of poor communication, then we're going to turn around, talk 03:00 about it a little bit and then do the positive side. All right. 03:04 Are you with us. All right. Let's go. 03:06 So I've been calling you for 10 minutes. How come you didn't 03:10 answer your phone? 03:11 I did answer my phone. 03:13 You didn't answer your phone I called you 10 times. 03:17 On the 10th time I answered my phone. 03:20 You didn't call on the 9th time. I have something very important 03:22 to ask you. 03:23 When I picked up the phone you hung up. 03:25 That doesn't have anything to do with anything. I called you 03:28 nine times. I have something important to ask you. 03:30 I don't like the way you're talking to me. 03:31 Well I don't like the way that you didn't answer the phone. 03:34 I need you to listen to me. 03:36 I answered the phone. 03:37 The problem is that you don't listen to me. 03:38 The problem is... 03:40 Excuse me, I'm talking right now 03:41 I don't want to hear you talk. 03:43 See what do you mean you don't want to hear me talk? 03:45 Because you're not trying to hear what I have to say. 03:47 I have been living with this for years and years and years. You 03:50 don't want to listen to me while I'm talking. And then when I 03:53 start talking all of a sudden you want to start talking. 03:55 and you interrupt me. 03:56 Because what your saying is you're saying it out of anger 03:58 I'm not angry. Do I look angry to you? Do I sound angry to you? 04:01 You kind of act angry. 04:03 I'm not. But we're going to stop there. So what did you see? 04:06 Number one: You can't talk at the same time. Somebody has to 04:10 listen and when there are two individuals in the room, there 04:14 should be two listeners. Arthur should be listening. I'm 04:18 listening. That's all right? 04:19 I think another important point that needs to be brought out in 04:21 that exchange is the fact that body language conveys a message 04:26 as well; not just words. You have to be able to watch the 04:32 body language. Sometimes when a person is angry they demonstrate 04:37 a real aggressive body language which makes the environment even 04:42 more hostile. 04:43 So Arthur's saying there was a body language, two people trying 04:48 to talk at the same time. The tone was loud. You have anger. 04:53 Did you notice the eye contact and again that body language. 04:59 So what would you do differently? Let us show you. 05:03 Arthur, I've been trying to reach you for about the last 10 05:07 minutes or so. 05:10 I picked up the phone on the 10th call and you weren't there. 05:15 I guess you were just hanging the phone up. What I should have 05:19 done was call you back. 05:21 Okay. I'd appreciate that next time if you could call me back 05:24 because sometimes you don't pick up your phone and maybe 05:29 I'll try texting you. Maybe that will help. 05:31 Well yeah, but sometimes I'm away from my phone. I'll put it 05:36 on my desk and leave it. But when I do hear it I'll rush to 05:40 it and I tried to answer it as quickly as possible. 05:43 Well don't you want to know what I wanted. 05:45 Absolutely. 05:46 Well I needed some eggs, bread and some milk before you came 05:49 in but now you're home. 05:51 That's no problem. I can still go. 05:52 You want to go back out again? 05:53 Absolutely. 05:55 Well I appreciate that. All right. Can I add some more 05:57 things to the list. Okay great. 06:01 So right there what did you notice about body language? 06:06 What did you notice about the body language? 06:08 Well there wasn't any aggression demonstrated. It was more of a 06:13 calm atmosphere. 06:14 All right. That means I wasn't on the defensive and you weren't 06:17 on the defense. 06:18 So I mean we were able to communicate. We made progress. 06:22 And you were able to hear me and I was able to hear you. 06:25 And the solution was I needed you to do what? 06:28 You needed me to go to the store for you. 06:31 Okay. So therefore my message was conveyed and he was able to 06:35 follow through. Now let me ask a question. How many times during 06:40 the week do you and your family members or if you're a single 06:45 person sit down and just write down some short term goals to 06:49 improve your communication skills. And let's talk about 06:53 those who are single Arthur. Do they communicate with people 06:56 on the job? 06:58 Absolutely. But the first step even before you write down the 07:03 goals is to recognize that you have a problem in your 07:09 communication with others. Sometimes when people will bring 07:13 that to our attention and we will still ignore that, Kim. 07:18 So after I admit that there is a concern, then I want to change 07:23 and try to improve the relationship and try to improve 07:26 my communication skills. Then I will start writing. How would 07:31 I do this? What is necessary for me to be a good listener or a 07:36 good communicator. 07:37 What is so difficult... and we counsel couples all the time. 07:42 What do you notice is the biggest challenge in 07:45 relationships when it comes to communication? Is it listening 07:50 or is it something else? 07:52 Well I think after a period of time sometimes we take people 07:57 for granted and we try to listen but our minds may drift off and 08:02 the next thing you know you don't hold whatever that person 08:06 is trying to convey to you as being important. And sometimes 08:10 that will lead us to just totally not pay attention and 08:16 doing something else or being distracted. So those are some 08:20 of the things that would prevent us from developing good 08:24 listening skills. 08:26 You really want something done for you around your home by your 08:30 spouse or your children? Let me give you some simple words that 08:34 will help you. Thank you. You're welcome, please, that was so 08:39 nice of you. People really enjoy getting accolades. 08:44 Another tool. Please if your doing this at the dinner table, 08:50 texting, or your cell phone, reading a newspaper. Put it 08:56 away and begin to communicate. We started a new, not a rule, 09:01 but I asked Arthur when we go out to dinner, can we put the 09:06 cell phones away. Can we just have our opportunity to wind 09:10 down and just talk to each other. How do you like that? 09:14 Well I think it works well but I think the cell phone is 09:18 probably more of a problem with you than it is with me, Kim. 09:21 You think so? Absolutely. You know I'm working on it to 09:25 make sure that when people are calling... Right now we've been 09:29 going through something with our business so we get a lot of 09:33 phone calls to my cell phone. But I try to just put it down. 09:37 Today we were out. I put it down. Because you need to just 09:41 take it down a notch and be able to unwind and hear what's going 09:46 on in the dynamics of your household. 09:48 Absolutely. Not only at the, within the household 09:54 I'm sorry to interrupt you and I'm sorry, that's another pet 09:57 peeve of mine but why do you say the cell phone is more 09:59 challenging for me? 10:01 Because I think that you're on it probably more. I think you're 10:06 more of a communicator as far as talking to people and the 10:10 excitement that you demonstrate when you talk to people. You 10:16 like to really, really get really engaged when you talk to 10:21 a lot of people. 10:22 Well yeah because people are calling for information, they 10:25 want to set appointments. Okay can you imagine you calling me 10:29 for an appointment, (dull voice) Hello, Dr. Logan, can I help 10:32 you. It would be like click. This lady does not want to be 10:36 bothered. So what I do I say Good afternoon, thank you for 10:39 calling, Dr. Logan speaking, how may I help you. (animated voice) 10:42 Now wouldn't that make you want to say now I know this lady 10:46 really wants to help me. 10:47 But I'm not just talking about clients, Kim. I'm talking about 10:51 with just people in general. You get excited. 10:56 I am an excitable person... 11:00 You just interrupted me Kim. 11:04 I'm sorry. Was what you were saying was going to be 11:05 important. 11:07 Absolutely. Okay go ahead. 11:08 I mean, that's what I thought. So you know you really need to 11:11 write down what would improve your listening skills when I'm 11:16 talking to you. 11:17 Okay I'm going to tell you what could improve my listening 11:21 skills. Prayer, I need to pray more. I'm learning to pray more 11:25 before I speak. I'm learning to really take in my environment 11:31 before I respond. Make sure I respond effectively so I'm not 11:35 redundant. How do you feel about it when people are redundant? 11:38 They say the same thing over and over again. 11:42 I know when you get excited that happens a lot... not 11:48 just you per se but people when they get excited and are trying 11:52 to convey a message. Sometimes they do say the same thing over 11:58 and over again which could be a challenge for someone who's 12:02 just trying to listen and find what point that they're trying 12:07 to make. But in many cases that's where the breakdown in 12:12 communication comes. 12:14 That's where it is. 12:15 Then when we're talking about listening skills and the 12:19 communication aspect within a relationship. If I'm not able to 12:24 communicate with you, Kim, then I may get to the point where I'm 12:29 looking for somebody else to communicate with. 12:31 And that's the danger zone. 12:32 Especially if it's at work. I'm talking to somebody at work 12:37 and it may not start in the direction where I'm providing 12:41 them with any type information personally but the more I get 12:44 comfortable talking with somebody else because I can't 12:48 talk with you in the home then the next thing you know that 12:52 can lead to all types of negativity with a relationship. 12:56 How many times have we heard well I just wanted to have a 13:00 conversation with someone and the next thing you know you're 13:03 involved with that person intimately. And it all started 13:07 with a friendly hello, a listening ear, tell me about 13:11 your problems. Don't tell them about your problems. Find a way 13:16 to communicate with your spouse, talk to God, talk to your pastor 13:21 talk to someone who's going to really be there to give you 13:24 sound good Christian advice. 13:26 If you get to a point where you want to share information you 13:30 have to have a lot of trust in the person that receiving that 13:35 information. Oh no doubt. 13:36 So I really think that you can find a counselor but it has to 13:42 be with somebody that you totally trust and that you have 13:46 built a relationship with over the years. It's not just 13:51 somebody that you meet in a few months and you think you know 13:55 them and then you start sharing personal information. A lot of 13:58 times that can turn out to be a negative situation. 14:01 I received the nicest compliment from a new patient and she had 14:06 gone to two other therapists. I was just listening and not 14:10 a red flag and I asked her what brought you to me and she told 14:14 me why. But at the end of the session what she really enjoyed 14:18 was the engaging. I was engaging with her. She said the other two 14:23 doctors never said a word during the whole session. They allowed 14:27 her to speak and they never asked her a question, they 14:30 never engaged. And there are different techniques, people 14:33 will have different techniques, different therapists, 14:35 psychiatrists, psychologists, but she was looking for someone 14:39 to engage with her, ask her questions, pull some things out 14:43 of her because she didn't know how to address some issues in 14:47 her life. 14:48 Well I think that might have happened that way but sometimes 14:51 I think we become a little anxious in having somebody 14:55 provide us with a solution. 14:57 I don't think she was looking for a solution. She was looking 15:00 for someone to help her understand what she was 15:04 going through. And I'm not saying that's not a sense of a 15:07 solution. There are times though I have patients when I 15:11 just listen. Matter of fact, remember I told you about this 15:15 one particular person, a patient and she said at the end of the 15:21 session, Dr. Logan, I need you just to listen. I was outdone. 15:26 I understand. 15:27 And she said... What'd you mean by that? Are you going 15:31 somewhere with that? 15:33 I understand Kim because you know that could be a problem 15:35 with you sometimes. 15:36 It's not a problem for me. It's part of being a good therapist. 15:39 You have to be able to communicate and listen. 15:42 I'm talking about not on the job... 15:44 but off the job. 15:45 Absolutely. 15:47 Okay so tell me what you feel is one of the most challenging 15:51 issues of the art of listening with me. 15:53 Silence. 15:54 What you mean, you need me to be silent? 15:56 Sometimes. 15:58 Wait a minute, one time we were driving all the way, we were 16:02 going to Georgia, going to Atlanta. And I was talking to 16:07 Arthur and I said Arthur you are not responding to me, Arthur 16:11 do you hear me. Arthur say something. He said, Kim, I've 16:14 been listening to you since we left Detroit and that was nine 16:18 hours ago. And it was like Oh that hurt my feelings. You know 16:22 he said but you've been talking and talking and I'm thinking I'm 16:26 just keeping him awake and keeping the engaging going but 16:29 it was no engaging. I was doing all the talking. He hurt my 16:32 feelings that time. 16:34 And you didn't even realize that you were doing all the talking. 16:36 I didn't realize I talked for nine hours. 16:38 I know and that's a problem. 16:40 You try to talk nine hours without any interruption. 16:44 I'm saying, it's a problem. Do you understand the turmoil 16:50 that I was going through. 16:51 I don't know because I thought I was really sharing a lot of 16:54 things. I was going through a lot of different dynamics. I was 16:57 talking about magazine articles, I was talking about our books, 17:00 I was talking about the children 17:01 It wasn't really turmoil because I mean even though I may not 17:06 have engaged as much as you wanted me to it was really 17:11 productive because some real productivity came out of it. 17:15 It did and I was able to capture you. I can never get you to just 17:20 sit down. Arthur's a golfer and he's very, very busy with his 17:22 programs and different things. So I got him in that car and 17:28 I knew I had him for nine hours. 17:30 You know but those are things that we used to do quite a bit 17:34 but I think what had interrupted that type of engaging is the 17:39 technology that's out here right now. 17:42 Oh yes. 17:44 You know technology can be positive and negative. It can be 17:48 distracting. I think what has happened with many of us is that 17:53 texting and the cell phone could be very detrimental in 17:58 relationships. And what has happened with some of the 18:02 clients that have come into our offices, they really have a 18:06 difficult time in dealing with their spouse who is constantly 18:10 texting on the telephone. 18:12 Oh definitely. And a lot of them have lost the ability to do oral 18:15 communication because they text their message or they'll I 18:18 texted you today. And I have to always ask our couples, did 18:22 you talk to each other. Yes we text, that's what they say. 18:27 I say no, did you pick up the phone, did you call them, did 18:31 you say anything to them face to face verbally. No, no Dr. Nowlan 18:36 we text. 18:38 But let me add another component to that. What I've also realized 18:43 in experimenting with certain things with our couples is that 18:49 sometimes when it's difficult to talk orally what happens is they 18:54 need to come up with a different tool to communicate. So what 18:59 I've done is recognize that e- mailing each other what their 19:04 concerns are as a form of communication is not bad. It 19:09 can help when it's like if I talk to you I anticipate that 19:12 we're going to be hollering and screaming at each other. Or 19:17 sometimes I may have to text you just to let you know I got the 19:21 message that you were trying to deliver to me but unfortunately 19:25 you were not able to listen to me. So you can use it in a 19:31 productive way but it's working on our communication, not when 19:36 you're just texting or e-mailing or communicating with everybody 19:42 else and you're not communicating with me. 19:43 That's a void. 19:45 That is a void. And another thing I want to touch on is when 19:48 you're communicating you can't watch television and communicate 19:53 at the same time. 19:54 You mean I can't watch the playoffs. 19:57 No but let me say this ladies, pick your battles. Do not try 20:02 to talk to your husband during the super bowl or March Madness 20:06 or you know the playoffs. You didn't know I knew all that did 20:10 you? Wasn't that pretty good? 20:13 You remember what I taught you. 20:15 I have learned to pick my battles and I have to wait. 20:18 Now Arthur he plays golf, he dozes off about 9:30, 10 o'clock 20:24 It's over. You know we're still here in the studio. So I'm 20:28 saying that if I'm going to talk to Arthur it has to be in the 20:32 morning. 20:34 All right, I've got to catch him in the morning because that's 20:36 the best time because he is a person that likes to communicate 20:40 in the morning. How many times have you said to me, Kim, I'm 20:44 on my down, I'm going down. Do not talk to me right now. And he 20:49 says it very nicely. Some times I'll go in with a burst of 20:51 energy and he'll just look at me like you know you're about 20:56 to go. So you know I can go for two or three hours so that he 21:01 says not right now Kim. And I'm like man I've got so much to say 21:05 I want to say it now. I'm a night bird, he's morning. So we 21:10 have to find our balance. Yeah. We are, we're opposites but we 21:15 find our balance. So what I have to do is catch him before he 21:20 goes, talk with him. And I've got another way. I call you and 21:25 we talk on the phone. 21:27 That's good and that works. 21:28 And it works for us. 21:30 Especially when we're trying to deal with some really 21:33 important business and we need each other to understand how 21:39 we're going to progress in this particular area. 21:42 Right. I put double sinks in our bathroom so we can be in the 21:45 bathroom at the same time and we're talking and we're 21:48 communicating. 21:49 But you know that never sat well with me. 21:51 You don't like the double sinks? Not really. 21:52 I asked you about the double sinks. 21:53 Yeah, but I was just trying to... 21:55 Accommodate me? 21:57 Yeah because I knew it was something that was important. 21:59 Don't you just love... 22:01 Have you noticed Kim, I'm not really in there when you're in 22:03 there. Oh I was in there when you were 22:05 in there. 22:06 Yeah, that is true. You know I come in there when you're in 22:12 there. Because I got to captivate you, I got to get 22:14 you and talk to you. 22:15 Yeah, as soon as you come in I'm leaving. 22:17 You are leaving. I noticed that. 22:19 You know it's not to say that I don't enjoy spending time with 22:23 you. That's another part of the listening. I think what really 22:28 stands out even more is the fact that if it's enjoyable 22:33 conversation time shoots by. It does. And it's really fun. 22:37 It's fun to communicate with somebody that you really care 22:42 about. And when the communication stops 22:44 that's an issue, that's a problem in the relationship. 22:47 And I think that's what really motivates a lot of people to 22:53 us is the fact that their communication has come to a 22:58 standstill. 22:59 It has, it has. You know when we were on our honeymoon and you 23:04 read to me. Absolutely. And you read me stories and I laid in 23:07 your lap. It was beautiful and I listened to those stories. 23:12 It was the first time hearing you read stories to me. I wasn't 23:14 that in tune to story telling even though that was part of my 23:19 dissertation. But it was so beautiful and I listened and I 23:24 learned so much from those stories. But you haven't done it 23:28 since. Yes I have. I read stories that 23:31 I've written myself. 23:32 I know, yes you have but not exactly the same. 23:36 Do you know just what happened here? 23:37 What is that? 23:39 I told you I read you stories that I've written... 23:44 I just overlooked it. 23:45 and you just overlooked that. I'm sorry. 23:47 Is that something that you may need to work on, Kim? 23:50 I think so. 23:52 I think I can help you with that 23:53 Okay, say it to me again. Say Kim I read you my stories. 23:56 Any time that you feel that... 23:58 No, no go back and say that I've read to you my stories. 24:01 Do I have to say it the way you want me to say it, or can I say 24:05 it the way I want to say it. 24:06 Say it the way you want to say it. 24:09 See that's another... (laughter) 24:11 You now because I want things my way, I do. 24:15 Yes you do. 24:17 I'm spoiled. You spoiled me. 24:18 Not only that I think your dad spoiled you and your mom spoiled 24:22 you. I'm mean I'm thinking about a process. Let's go back to this 24:27 listening aspect. If you had problems listening in your 24:32 family of origin that's an issue that you carried on for a long 24:36 period of time. So even when you get involved in a relationship, 24:41 there may be some issues as far as your communication skills 24:45 you need to improve and sometimes it takes time for both 24:50 parties to really recognize, I need improvement in this area. 24:53 So one of the things we also have to recognize is the fact 24:58 that we are attracted to each other for many, many reasons. 25:03 And sometimes in my attraction to you I may overlook other 25:08 areas and so those other areas may be really, really something 25:12 that I need to address and that really stand out but because of 25:18 my infatuation with you I may feel that us being together, you 25:23 will change eventually. 25:25 Or I'll change you. 25:26 And that's sometimes very devastating to the individual. 25:31 Yes and the listening is still not improved because we still 25:35 have the same issues. 25:36 When we see couples hollering and screaming in the therapy 25:40 session and no one is listening and there's nothing getting 25:43 resolved because you're not listening to me and I'm not 25:46 listening to you. I want to be heard. I want to out talk you 25:50 and so therefore, we're back to square one and I don't want to 25:54 counseling because it's not doing any good. Well the 25:56 counseling is not going to do any good unless you implement 25:59 the tools of listening. 26:00 Set up goals. That's one of the most important things. How 26:05 can I listen. Now I want to talk to our audience and let them 26:09 know, there's a simple process that's involved that can help 26:14 you as far as improving you listening skills and that 26:16 process is take a three-minute or five-minute time and allow 26:23 the person that's trying to convey a message, give them 26:26 three uninterrupted minutes to voice their opinion and then you 26:32 take three uninterrupted minutes to give feedback or voice your 26:37 opinion. If you use that time frame it really is a training 26:42 mechanism to help you to learn how to listen to each other in a 26:46 productive manner. 26:47 That's an excellent idea. You know we use that also. 26:51 Absolutely. Well you know, my goodness 26:53 Arthur. The time is already gone 26:55 It's amazing. I can't believe it 26:57 I can't either. 26:58 And you were listening to me all the time. 27:00 And I was. Well listen, we want to thank you and we hope some 27:03 of the things we've shared with you and what you saw today 27:06 on Making It Work will help you in the art of listening. I'm Dr. 27:10 Kim Logan Nowlan. I'm Arthur Nowlan. 27:12 God bless, God bless. |
Revised 2018-03-05