Participants:
Series Code: MIW
Program Code: MIW000071A
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00:01 Hi, I'm Dr. Kim Logan Nowlin. I'm Arthur Nowlin.
00:03 And welcome to Making It Work. 00:37 Within the city, Detroit, 00:38 and like many other metropolitan cities, 00:41 you hear about tragedies, and murders, 00:43 and homicides, but today, it's close to home. 00:48 We've a very special guest with us today, 00:51 Arthur on Making It Work. 00:52 But before we introduce our guest, 00:55 we've lived in Detroit, I love Detroit, I believe in my city. 00:59 We call it, you know, "We believe in her 01:02 because she's on her way back." 01:04 But what is some of the things that you have known or seen 01:08 when it comes to homicides and the city, Detroit? 01:11 Well, actually, I haven't seen a lot of homicides, 01:14 but I know that the city has had a great deal, 01:18 a major increase in homicides. 01:21 Especially, by looking at the news 01:23 and talking to some of the police officers 01:25 there I know, a lot of them are not even reported. 01:29 Yeah, because it's just so many of them everyday. 01:33 But what I'm concerned about is the fact about the young people 01:38 that are participating in this. 01:39 It's not so many domestic violence situations, 01:46 but we have a lot of young people 01:49 that are resolving to violence to solve their problem. 01:53 And that's not the way to solve your problem. 01:56 Well, about a year and a half ago, I met a young man, 01:59 and this gentleman was a student in my class 02:02 in Wayne County Community College. 02:04 He just wasn't the average student, 02:06 he was above excellence. 02:08 And I knew that by the way he carried himself, 02:10 the way he spoke, he always said, "Yes, ma'am." 02:14 I remember he feels so proud, but his work was excellent. 02:19 If I had, now, if anyone's has me as a professor, 02:22 they know I do not tolerate anything but excellence. 02:26 And even when it came to a rewrite, 02:29 ones he did in the first time, he knew my standards, 02:32 and they were high because I was putting my stamp 02:36 on his future. 02:38 But I want to welcome this wonderful person 02:41 to our program Making It Work. 02:42 Welcome, Jerrell J. Shine, God bless you. 02:44 God bless you, ma'am. Welcome. 02:46 God bless you, sir. 02:47 Is this your first time meeting my husband? 02:48 Yes, it is. Yeah. 02:50 Oh, sometimes, in the past, he's taken up my class, 02:52 if I was out of town. 02:53 Okay. 02:55 But you were blessed to have me the whole 16 weeks. 02:56 Yes, I was. 02:57 You know, I think you only did miss one class. 02:59 Was this the one class you've got to town? 03:01 You went to Jamaica? Yes, ma'am. 03:02 See, I remembered it. Cause you never miss class. 03:05 I'm just amazed that this young man 03:07 had the tenacity to stay in your class. 03:10 If you had to say anything about my class, 03:12 what would you say? 03:14 She reminded me of my mother. Okay. 03:16 Well, that's one of reasons for you to stay in her class? 03:19 And then why, why, tell him why? 03:21 'Cause others thought that she was demanding, 03:24 but I saw that she just wanted, 03:27 she saw more for her students like, "you can do." 03:30 And that's what she was aiming to pull a lot of every student. 03:33 Some students rather walk out and leave, 03:35 drop the class, I'd rather stay. 03:37 And tell him my favorite speech, 03:38 'cause I teach Speech 101 03:40 and there's a communication department. 03:42 What was my favorite speech? That I did? 03:44 Yes, One of my favorite, when play with the toys. 03:47 Okay, my radio controlled helicopter. 03:50 The entertainment speech. The entertainment speech. 03:51 That's your speech? Yes. 03:53 I played with the remote control, and I get up, 03:55 and I played with it. 03:56 I wrecked it a couple of times. 03:58 But you got an A all the way through, and 04:01 so, you know, to bring it to now, 04:04 I received a phone call at my office 04:06 at private practice in Detroit. 04:08 And as soon as my Administrator said his name, and I said, 04:11 "That's my A student," 04:12 'cause I don't give too many As. 04:14 And so, when I called him back, he said, 04:16 "Dr. Kim, I need to come see you," not knowing, 04:20 didn't know anything, but my Administrator, 04:22 she recognized his name immediately. 04:26 And she pulled the story off the internet. 04:29 She put it on my desk, I read it, it broke my heart. 04:35 And that's why, I asked him to come, to tell his story, 04:39 and he gives God all the glory, he loves the Lord, 04:41 but you must hear this story in this testimony. 04:45 So Jerrell, why don't you start off 04:47 when you got the call going into the barber shop? 04:51 I was actually parked at the Coney Island 04:55 across the street from the barber shop, 04:56 when my car was in drive. 05:00 I received the call, I was about to put in park, 05:02 he was in drive, I received the call and, 05:05 "Come on, come on, I need you," 05:08 I put my car reverse backed down, 05:10 put it in drive and left and went to my grandmother's home. 05:14 And I walked into the door and I saw some stuff there 05:19 that I didn't completely expect to see. 05:23 It smell like gun powder and blood. 05:29 What did you see? 05:32 I saw my grandmother sitting on the floor, 05:34 and I started checking her vitals. 05:37 She looked just like my grand mom 05:38 but she was not responding to me, 05:41 and that's, that's abnormal for her in our relationship. 05:45 I heard something in the basement, 05:47 I went to the basement. 05:49 It was my sister running and hiding 05:51 'cause she didn't know who was coming down 05:53 the basement's steps. 05:55 And I said "Carol?" 05:57 She said "Get mom, get my momma, get momma", 06:00 I said, "Where is she?" 06:01 She said "Right there." 06:03 I looked and my mother was on the floor, 06:06 and I jumped on the steps, "Momma, momma," 06:09 she was not talking to me, that's abnormal 06:12 'cause she, if she would speak for anybody, 06:14 she would speak for me. 06:15 You know, she didn't respond to me, I grabbed her left arm, 06:19 checking vitals, no vitals, 06:22 and it was, it's very heartbreaking for me 06:27 to sit here and talk, and still standing, 06:30 and yet keep the smile, 06:31 you know, it's the everlasting pain. 06:34 I can imagine that something like that 06:36 would be just devastating. 06:38 But what else did you see? 06:41 When I come back upstairs, when I went back upstairs, 06:44 I saw my aunt's telling me, 06:46 "Get your baby, your baby is on the couch." 06:48 And I'm like, you know, I was confused like, 06:50 "What do you mean? How is he even here?" 06:53 I saw my son on the couch and I went, and I saw him, 06:57 and I grabbed him and, you know, he said, 07:01 "Uncle D. shot me, daddy?" 07:03 And I said, "What?" 07:04 And I'm checking for where, 07:06 I'm checking for the blood on his clothes, 07:07 I didn't see none, and he was like, 07:08 "No he just, he shot at me, he shot at me, daddy," 07:11 pointed to the side of the couch and I just grabbed him. 07:13 But it didn't hit him? 07:15 Thank God, by the grace of God, he didn't. 07:17 And he was your son? 07:19 Jerrell Junior, that's my son. And how old is he? 07:21 He's three, he's three. Three years old. 07:23 So the bullet hit him, did missed him. 07:25 Yes, ma'am. 07:26 And he just laid still? Yes, ma'am. 07:28 So then what happened? 07:30 I grabbed a cover, my grandmother's throw rug 07:33 and covered, I just threw it over his head 07:35 and ran him out of the house 07:37 because my grandmother was sitting on the kitchen floor 07:40 and I didn't want him to see anything else. 07:42 So I ran him out, across the street 07:45 and I come back in 07:47 because I'm the number one EMS at this point, I see EMS, 07:50 I see police office, but it's all normal 07:52 for them to see things like this 07:54 to where they, they're not concerned, 07:56 they're in the house, they're just standing over there, 07:58 people lying on the ground and EMS outside. 08:01 Wait! Do you work for EMS? 08:02 No, sir. Not at all. 08:03 Oh, okay, so you just checking any response. 08:05 My mothers' a registered nurse, so she always explains to me 08:08 about vitals, blood pressure, stuff like that, 08:11 so I'm very aware of checking vitals. 08:15 So I come back in the house and hear my aunty saying, 08:20 "Jerrell, Meyer is in the back." 08:22 Say, Meyer's in the back? 08:24 At this point my mind is going, I am like, 08:26 "Well, who else is laid, who else 08:27 is on the floor in this house?" 08:29 And who is Meyer? 08:31 Meyer is my seven year old cousin. 08:34 My baby cousin, beautiful little princess of the family. 08:38 I goes into the bathroom, and I see her laying 08:42 like face down on the ground 08:44 and there's like blood everywhere. 08:46 And I see a very distinct thing that sticks to my head. 08:50 A bloody hand print on the tub, 08:53 and it's like, its hand print 08:56 and that's you know, I see it right now. 09:01 Who did this? 09:04 When I was on the ground with my mom, 09:09 you know I asked my sister, I said, "Well, who did this?" 09:12 She said, "Fedarius." 09:13 Fedarius is who? 09:16 My mother's sister's son. He's my first cousin. 09:21 Up until this point he was my brother. 09:24 So never had a, I never smelt this coming, 09:27 I never saw it coming. 09:29 It's like I heard the young man say earlier, 09:31 we only see this on the news. 09:34 I've always saw this on the news. 09:37 I've never experienced this in my family. 09:39 I wasn't raised like that, my grandmother, 09:42 they not teach us things like this nature. 09:45 My mother went to college, she was a registered nurse, 09:48 she showed me that you can go to school, 09:51 you can provide different life for yourself 09:53 in spite of where you come from. 09:56 And so, your grandmother no vitals, she was gone? 10:01 She had passed away? Yes, ma'am. 10:04 My grandmother looked as if 10:07 it was a, she had a better chance, 10:10 because my mom eyes was open, wasn't blinking. 10:15 And people don't have their eyes open 10:17 for two, three, four minutes at a time without blinking. 10:21 I know, I came in grips with her when I grabbed her arm, 10:24 I couldn't feel any spirit in her arm, so to speak. 10:28 So I said, well, Jerrell, you can save your grandma, 10:32 go back up there and save your grandma 10:34 'cause my grandma eye's was closed and she looked as if, 10:38 she looked just like grandma, you know. 10:42 So he came in there, okay, let's go back. 10:45 What cause the situation to happen? 10:50 What was the factor that cause your first cousin, 10:53 your mother's sister's child 10:55 to come in and take the life 10:57 of your grandmother, your mother, and his own child? 11:00 What was it? 11:02 Okay, me say a word, it would be my opinion. 11:06 Okay. 11:07 That's an answer that only he can answer. 11:11 Well, what do you think happened 11:12 that cause this to happen? 11:15 Where was he early that day? 11:17 Where he was earlier that day was he went to court, 11:20 and what I would understand, what I feel would cause him 11:24 to do this is a lot of people can not handle pressure. 11:28 Some people can look at problems and issues 11:30 as if they are problems and issues, when it's really not. 11:34 Things which you have control over, control it. 11:37 Things which you cannot control, 11:38 like my situation today, 11:40 I got to leave them in the hands of god. 11:42 I cannot control this. 11:45 There's no man in the world 11:48 that would have been allow another man 11:50 to manhandle their mother, their grandmother, 11:52 and another child at their grandmas home. 11:55 I don't, you know, 11:58 I am not that kind of man, unless you say that. 12:00 So, was he mentally competent or did he got to point 12:05 when he just was impulsive 12:07 and angry about a particulate thing or? 12:15 The man is as sane as me, 12:17 here sitting, talking to you right now. 12:18 Okay. 12:20 You know, I've born at '83, he's born at '84, 12:24 there's nothing I don't know about him, 12:25 there's nothing he don't know about me. 12:28 Only thing I can really say is 12:32 he had to be very, very angry to do something like this. 12:36 He had to be very, very angry to do something like this. 12:39 You don't turn a gun on to your mother's sister, 12:45 and your mother's mother, 12:46 your grandmother and your daughter. 12:48 I don't understand that. 12:51 Can you go back and talk about what happened in court, 12:54 which you shared with me, that could have triggered this, 12:57 'cause he went to pick his daughter off at school. 12:59 He had his daughter with him? Yes. 13:01 And went to your grandmother's home? 13:03 Yes. 13:04 And so something happened at court 13:07 to probably triggered this situation? 13:09 He was previously, he had been just tell me about, 13:14 "I'm about to take her mother to court, she's about to," 13:18 because, mind you, you asked me earlier, 13:20 was he mentally competent? 13:22 He was granted full custody of his daughter. 13:25 He has a CCW gun permission, 13:27 that would answer your question, right? 13:28 Okay. 13:30 Early that day, he went to court, 13:32 taken her mom to friend, to the court, 13:34 trying to get child support from her. 13:38 And they denied him child support, the courts did. 13:40 And I believe that could trigger, 13:44 but that's not enough to murder your daughter, 13:48 your aunty, and your grandmother. 13:52 No, it's not enough to murder anyone. 13:55 Exactly. 13:56 But apparently he became unstable to the point 14:00 where, and when we talk about mentally, 14:06 the instability that he demonstrate 14:09 was initiative because of a decision. 14:13 So his rage became so overwhelming 14:17 that he didn't think about 14:19 what was the consequences of his actions. 14:23 He just reacted in a negative way, 14:26 and that was something that he must of thought about 14:29 prior to the whole incidence. 14:32 I mean, even before the court, I am under impression 14:36 that there were some, 14:38 some real consideration or some real thought about 14:43 if the court did not go his way. 14:48 Honestly, sir, I just, I don't understand the angle, you know. 14:53 I am not here to justify anything for nobody. 14:58 I am here to stand tall for my family, my mother, 15:01 my grandmother, my seven year's old cousin. 15:03 I am not here to glorify, justify anything 15:05 that he is done. 15:07 Didn't you tell me his mother was there in the house 15:10 but he didn't kill his mother? 15:12 He only he hit or he knocked her down, 15:16 but he did not shoot and kill his mother. 15:18 No, he didn't. 15:20 And he shot a round his mother to shoot at his child, 15:23 he shout his child four times. 15:25 That's what been stated, 15:28 I wasn't there. 15:31 But his mom, yes, his mom was there present in home 15:35 when this took place. 15:36 And, yes, thanks God she is still alive. 15:41 So now few weeks after your mother and grandmother, 15:46 you buried them, 15:47 you continue to go to children's hospital 15:50 here in Detroit to visit your little cousin. 15:53 And then shortly after there after 15:57 she had another operation. 15:59 How many operation did she have? 16:01 Honestly, I don't know but she wasn't there like five weeks. 16:06 I am pretty sure she had 16:08 at least two to three operations 16:10 and probably had few more to go through. 16:12 She lived. 16:14 Yes, she is living for five weeks till march 22, 2003. 16:19 Yes. 16:20 I would like you to show our viewers 16:23 your picture of your mother, and grandmother, 16:25 and your little cousin. 16:26 Okay, this is the picture of my mother 16:29 and my grandmother's obituary. 16:31 What's their name? 16:33 My grandmother name is Geraldine Bates, 16:35 and my mother name is Santangela Shine Williams. 16:40 They are my favorite one. 16:42 They are beautiful. 16:44 I know, I would just like her. 16:46 And here's the picture of my little cousin Amara Jones, 16:52 she is seven. 16:53 I call her Meir-Meir my little princess. 16:55 Precious. 16:56 And this is just a picture 16:58 I got of my beautiful grandmother again. 17:01 This is at her birthday at the Cheese Cake factory. 17:03 I believe she is trying to 68. 17:06 And as you see they have these unique smiles, 17:11 and I just have to continue to keep our smile 17:14 for them, you know. 17:17 That's what I have to do. This is amazing. 17:20 You know to know you on one side as a student 17:25 and to have known him like this, 17:28 and when he sat with me with me 17:30 in my office and I felt honored, 17:32 I felt blessed by the lord 17:34 that he called on me and he said, 17:36 "Dr. Kim, I just, I need some help to get through this." 17:39 And I set there in my chair and I was speechless, 17:44 I could not believe what I read or heard. 17:48 And when I saw his face, because always in school 17:51 just a beautiful happy cartoonist. 17:54 You know when he try to express the other students, 17:57 take the negative and turn it into good. 18:00 And I see this what you're doing now, 18:02 you've come here to tell your story 18:05 to let somebody, to let people know 18:07 that you gonna have tragedies in your life. 18:09 Yes. And how you have to over come. 18:11 How does a God play a role in your life? 18:15 You know, where is God with you now? 18:17 Well, honestly, God is all I have, 18:21 because without god, I put it like this, 18:24 there is a lot of people they walk into house, 18:29 seeing at things that I have saw, 18:30 smelling the things that I have smelt. 18:33 Going to a service, seeing your mother and your grandmother, 18:37 you know, there's a lot of people 18:39 that would have negative thoughts 18:42 about what's their next move gonna be. 18:44 But I have never felt that way. 18:46 I have a brother and a sister, that my mother always told me 18:49 to take care of If anything happens to her. 18:52 I have two kids, I have a fiance, 18:55 I have a stepfather, I have two aunts that I still have. 18:59 And I still, I'm still Jerrell J. Shine, 19:01 I'm still the same guy, 19:03 it's just I'll never be the same again. 19:06 You know, I'm living, and I'm here, and I'm smiling, 19:08 but you know, is very different for me. 19:13 You had talked to your mo, I am sorry, 19:14 you had talked to your mom, it was valentines day, 19:18 she was surprised by your step father with the flowers. 19:21 You were telling me about that, that was so cute. 19:24 You know she wasn't expecting that, 19:26 but you had just talked to your mother. 19:29 Yes, I was on the phone with her, yes. 19:33 And few hours later, not even an hour later... 19:36 No, it wasn't like that 19:37 it was, I talked to her for 9:59 minutes 19:41 and she's saying, 19:42 "Ok, bye, Jerrell, I love you. All right. 19:44 Brother D, he's pulling out right now, 19:46 all right, love you, bye." 19:48 And 20 to 30 minutes later, about 30 minute later, 19:52 40 minute later I was getting his crazy calls about 19:54 we need you, you know so. 19:56 So she was, she told you 19:58 D. is pulling up. 19:59 And you didn't suspect anything because that's... 20:02 I just talked to him on Valentines, February 13, 20:06 we was together at my mom's house. 20:07 "All right, love you, cous." "All right, love you too." 20:10 You know, we, it's not, we don't' have a violent family. 20:13 The police is not at our house 20:15 every week or every year, once a year. 20:20 We are a people that go to college, go to work, 20:24 raise our family, pay our bills, you know, 20:27 pay your house no first, pay your rent first, 20:30 then your bills, your utilities. 20:31 But that's what, that's the kind of family I have, 20:34 structural, responsible, independent people. 20:39 You hadn't had any contact with this cousin at this point, 20:44 you haven't doubt to ask him why he'd gone to the court 20:49 to see her mom, to the jail to talk to him. 20:52 Was that difficult for you to do? 20:57 Honestly, Dr. Nowlin, 21:01 honestly, I can't tell you 21:07 how I will react to seeing him. 21:09 I don't, I don't, honestly, I don't know, I don't know. 21:12 I know I couldn't shake his hand, 21:14 and smile and talk to him of course, like I talk to you. 21:17 I understand that much. 21:19 So does court preceding is all over now. 21:23 He's sentence or? 21:25 No it just happened in February. 21:28 I am not for sure what they're doing 21:30 but we go to court in May, next month. 21:32 I'm gonna go. Yes, ma'am. 21:35 I am most definitely gonna go, I have to see 21:40 the justice system prevail, so to speak. 21:44 And your faith, you say your faith has guide you 21:48 through your relationship with God. 21:50 Yes, yes. 21:51 You know, so and how did you talk about 21:56 caring for your siblings 21:58 and that's what your mom wanted you to do, you know. 22:01 So how has this affected you, you know as a person. 22:07 Oh, Okay, well, as a person, 22:11 like I say, I was born in '83, 22:14 Sela was born on '84. 22:18 We went to the park when we were three, four. 22:21 We went to the arcade, we want to Chucky Cheese. 22:24 We even dated girls that hung together, you know, 22:29 we party together, we basically live together as brother. 22:33 You know, his mom and my mom are sisters, 22:34 they were as together. 22:36 So how it changed me, it has me looking at everybody different. 22:41 It has me looking at everybody different. 22:43 It just do. 22:45 I never expect in my life this to happen. 22:48 So what's next for you? 22:50 What's next for me is I owe my mother bachelor's 22:54 in mortuary science. 22:55 That's what she told me to make sure I finish, 22:58 make sure I finish my school, make sure I continue travel, 23:02 continue take care of my family. 23:04 Basically keep living life, don't let life live you. 23:08 That's what my mom, that's how my mom lived. 23:10 Live life, don't let it live you. 23:12 Where you attended school? 23:14 Oh, Wayne County Community College. 23:17 Well, I thought you might have gone to Wayne instead after... 23:19 Well he's... 23:21 Yeah, I thought he's already made, I understood 23:24 he was student but you know, 23:27 they don't stayed there, do they? 23:28 No, you know, some of them do though, you know. 23:31 But Jerrell is not gonna be one who want to stay there, 23:35 you know, you're moving on. 23:36 Yes, ma'am. 23:37 I think was in point here is that you know, 23:39 your mother and your grandmother 23:41 was in the body of Christ. 23:42 Yes, ma'am. 23:43 And you know, the bible says, when the trumpets will sound 23:45 and the dead in Christ will rise first. 23:48 And the voice they will hear will be that of Jesus Christ. 23:51 And as they come out of the grave, 23:54 you know, oh, death, where is your victory? 23:57 There is no victory in death 23:59 because Jesus Christ is the answer. 24:03 And you have to hold on that. 24:04 And I want to encourage you because you know, 24:06 I have talked about the lord in my classes 24:08 and I wasn't afraid to talk about Lord. 24:11 But the key factor is that 24:13 the enemies is gonna try to attack you. 24:16 I want to ask you, how is your son doing, 24:19 and are you giving counseling for him? 24:21 Yes, ma'am I... 24:23 And your sister. 24:25 My sister, me, my brother, my sister, my stepfather, 24:28 and my two owns, we're all going to the counseling. 24:32 I have my son going to a counselor for kids, 24:35 they have special program for kids. 24:37 And he's going, my brother, my sister, 24:40 we all go every week together. 24:41 And me and my two aunts, we go together. 24:44 So we all are taken the necessary steps 24:47 to just help be at our faith back 24:49 and be at our trust in society, so to speak. 24:52 To built your family back. Yes, yes, yes. 24:54 How's your stepfather because 24:56 your mother would've been 50 this year. 24:57 May 18, yes, ma'am. 24:59 May 10. May 18. 25:00 18 and you all have planned a big celebration for her. 25:03 Yes, ma'am. 25:05 You know, how's your stepfather doing? 25:07 He is doing, I can't say he is doing great. 25:10 He is not, we just stand together, you know, 25:14 when I give weak they pick me up, 25:17 when he gave weak I pick him up. 25:18 And it's, we're in a team, you know, we are a team, 25:21 we got to keep the ship sailing, 25:23 that's what we must do. 25:25 And you know, I think what would be hard for me 25:28 was the fact that this is not a stranger 25:33 from the streets or somebody 25:36 just try to rob or take revenge on you. 25:40 You know, its somebody that I've grow up with, loved, 25:44 and you know, share things with... 25:46 Yes, sir. 25:48 But he lost control because if you grew up in the church 25:52 and then you had that church background, 25:54 apparently he did it too... 25:55 Yes, sir. 25:57 You know, was he continuing, I mean, 26:00 before this incident happen, did he continue to go to church 26:04 or they had stopped over? 26:06 Her mom and my grandma would go to church sometimes. 26:10 Was he under influenced of any type of substance? 26:12 I am not for sure. 26:14 I wasn't with him on Valentine's Day, 26:16 nor the 15th, so I am not for sure. 26:20 Was his, the child's mother, 26:23 and were they eyes with each other? 26:25 You know, they have going court, 26:27 he wanted child support because he had the child for, 26:29 since birth? 26:31 He had her for about four years. 26:35 He had full custody. Yes. 26:37 And then you tell me that he represents himself in court. 26:41 Yes. 26:43 He want custody by representing himself in court. 26:48 So, he is not, he is not, 26:54 he is not Incomposite. 26:55 Tell you in person, for him to represent himself in court 27:00 and win full custody, you know, 27:02 from a mother, you know, that says a lot. 27:06 And evidently his character had be weighed, 27:09 you know, he worked, 27:10 he had been able to support to this child. 27:13 In 59 seconds that we have left, you know, 27:17 apparently what was the relationship 27:19 between the mother and him? 27:21 Had it. It was it always tumultuous. 27:26 I mean, his wife, I mean 27:29 the girl the daughter's mother. 27:30 With him? Yes. 27:32 I mean, there been at odds, you know, 27:34 he got full custody of their daughter, 27:36 so that's a problem in itself you know. 27:42 Not seeing eye to eye, not be in the same, 27:45 you know, you not being in the same household together, 27:47 that will create a conflict with any couple. 27:50 Well, you know, we're gonna be doing part two to this, 27:53 and we have more to come, more to share about this story. 27:56 But right now, we just want to say, 27:58 thank you for sharing this part with us. 28:01 And we look further part two with you. 28:03 Jerrell, continue to hold on. 28:05 And we want to thank you. 28:07 Arthur, I am Dr. Kim Logan Nowlin. 28:09 I am Arthur Nowlin. 28:11 And thank you for joining us on Making It Work. 28:12 God bless. |
Revised 2016-07-21